Beethoven's Piano Variations (excluding Diabelli)
mandryka
I like the Eroica Variations too.
I've enjoyed Arrau and Gilels for the former; Arrau’s 1952 recording
for the latter.
Who else has recorded these pieces well?
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:da12a365-66c1-4445-8993-6ebaaff80876
@r16g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
Mustonen has recorded some of them.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
***** War is Peace **** Freedom is Slavery **** Fox is News *****
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
mandryka
> mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> appears to have caused the following
Ahh -- interesting.
These pieces have attracted some real personal recordings. Arrau.
Gould.
I can imagine that Mustonen has made some fun recordings of them.
Has Pletnev recorded the C minor or Eroica variations? Maybe someone's
got a bootleg.
pianomaven
John Ogdon recorded all of them except the Diabelli for EMI.
Cecile Ousset recorded a bunch of them for French Decca on LP in the
1970s.
Brendel recorded all of them for Vox. These should still be available
on Vox Box.
TD
Dufus
Fiorentino, in 1959, the WoO 80 at about 10:21.
Dufus
> Fiorentino, in 1959, the WoO 80 at about 10:21.
Here is Fiorentino, with score ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ymc44yFgBo
wkasimer
> Mustonen has recorded some of them.
A couple of discs worth - excellent.
Another great disc is Gelber's:
Bill
David O.
<howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I�d say the chaconne like C minor WoO 80 is a real masterpiece.
When I was younger, I was never able to really warm to WoO 80, despite
my being so fond of Beethoven in general. I had to study WoO 80 when I
was a teen taking piano lessons, & perhaps spent too many months with
the piece--with only minimal success, as I recall. My teacher, Blanche
Nissim (who studied with Bolet & Berkowitz at Curtis), used to play
these variations for me. But today I love these variations, several of
which I would love to hear in an orchestral setting. Some of them,
like #6, remind me of Schumann.
As for recordings, I own & know only Jand� on Naxos & Gould on Sony, &
I prefer the former.
I'm curious about the Leon McCawley on iClassics. Anyone recommend?
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:34d4b51a-25e8-481a-b2b0-026859548b24
@t8g2000vbd.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 8, 6:15 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:da12a365-66c1-4445-8993-6ebaaff80876
>> @r16g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > I’d say the chaconne like C minor WoO 80 is a real masterpiece. And
>> > I like the Eroica Variations too.
>>
>> > I've enjoyed Arrau and Gilels for the former; Arrau’s 1952 recording
>> > for the latter.
>>
>> > Who else has recorded these pieces well?
>>
>> Mustonen has recorded some of them.
>
> Ahh -- interesting.
>
> These pieces have attracted some real personal recordings. Arrau.
> Gould.
>
> I can imagine that Mustonen has made some fun recordings of them.
For London/Decca (along with various short works):
12 Variationen über das Menuett à la Viganò, WoO.68
6 Leichte Variationen, WoO.77
6 Variirte Themen, Op.105
Variations in c on an Original Theme, WoO.80
Variations in Eb on an Original Theme 'Eroica', Op.35
Variations on a Russian Dance from Wranitzky's 'Das Waldmädchen', WoO.71
Variations on 'God Save the King', WoO.78
Variations on 'Nel cor più non mi sento',WoO.70
Variations on 'Quant'è più bello', WoO.69
Variations on 'Rule, Britannia', WoO.79
For BMG (likewise):
Variations on a Waltz by Diabelli, Op.120
> Has Pletnev recorded the C minor or Eroica variations? Maybe someone's
> got a bootleg.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
wkasimer
> Who else has recorded these pieces well?
I remember liking Cascioli's disc a lot:
Bill
mandryka
I had forgotten about the Fiorentino WoO80 on youtube. Is it anywhere
with good sound?
And I didn't know Leon McCawley had recorded it -- I'd be keen to hear
a review.
Gould is surprisingly not a favourite -- I say surprisingly because I
like his Beethoven normally.
There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
live, with bad sound.
I played Arrau's 50s Eroica Variations and his Philips WoO80 last
night. I thought they were both magnificent, life enhancing
performances.
Steve Emerson
<4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
> about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
> live, with bad sound.
Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
Schumann Op 13.
There's a Moravec WoO 80, as well as Gilels on Melodiya, btw.
SE.
mandryka
> In article
> <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5-b198-eb8069683...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
> > about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
> > live, with bad sound.
>
> Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
> none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
> Schumann Op 13.
>
> There's a Moravec WoO 80, as well as Gilels on Melodiya, btw.
>
> SE.
Yes -- the Moravec isn't bad. In my own collection I just found
Cziffra (I have it in his Introuvables) -- I've never played it before
and at first glance it's special. Rather refined and poetic (Cziffra's
quite an enigmatic pianist -- I'm just starting to see that.)
And then I found this one from Vedernikov on youtube which certainly
has the "requisite energy and none of the angularity smoothed" Do you
have it in good sound, Steve?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vedernikov+beethoven+variations&aq=o
I also have Annie Fischer playing it.
pianomaven
> In article
> <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5-b198-eb8069683...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
> > about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
> > live, with bad sound.
>
> Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
> none of the angularity smoothed.
Indeed. I heard him to a series of variations in Tours in 1970
culminating in the Diabelli Variations. An outstanding concert in my
experience.
TD
M. A.
>
> I also have Annie Fischer playing it. [LvB WoO 80]
Do you mean the one on BBC Legends CD or is there another one?
By the way, Annie Fischer's Haydn f-minor Variations (Hob XVII:6) on the
BBC release are wonderful. Any other recommendations on that neglected
work?
M. A.
eugen
Horowitz C min of 1934 is hard to beat. The label was something like
"Magic Talent", crappy sound, who cares.
Sol L. Siegel
e01ed7...@s18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
Probably a pirate from a 3-CD EMI set. That performance has since
turned up in better sound in a "legit" remastering on APR.
Berkshire currently has a 2-CD set of his 1930s recordings that
includes it (and the 1932 Liszt Sonata, and tons of other classic
stuff) for $9.98: a steal.
In stereo, I'm very fond of Gould in those two sets. But after
75 years or thereabouts, Schnabel still beats everyone in the
Eroicas.
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:Xns9E86EAE163...@130.133.4.11:
> eugen <rad...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1ccdc97a-1725-4b0a-ac0e-
> e01ed7...@s18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On 8 feb., 08:09, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> I�d say �the chaconne like C minor WoO 80 is a real masterpiece. And
>>> I like the �Eroica Variations too.
>>>
>>> I've enjoyed �Arrau and Gilels for the former; Arrau�s 1952 �
>>> recording for the latter.
>>>
>>> Who else has recorded these pieces well?
>>
>> Horowitz C min of 1934 is hard to beat. The label was something like
>> "Magic Talent", crappy sound, who cares.
>
> Probably a pirate from a 3-CD EMI set. That performance has since turned
> up in better sound in a "legit" remastering on APR. Berkshire currently
> has a 2-CD set of his 1930s recordings that includes it (and the 1932
> Liszt Sonata, and tons of other classic stuff) for $9.98: a steal.
The Liszt "Fun�railles" is one of the best things he ever did, IMAO.
> In stereo, I'm very fond of Gould in those two sets. But after 75 years
> or thereabouts, Schnabel still beats everyone in the Eroicas.
--
mandryka
I only have it on the BBC release.
For the F minor variations maybe try Nathan Brand, Richter and
Demidenko.
mandryka
slow and cautious to me). I was confusing him with Koroliev, whom I
like a lot.
Johannes Roehl
I think Gould's disc of WoO 80, op. 34 and 35 is one of his best; rather
slow, but clear and powerful. Mustonen is interesting, but relistening
to that one a few weeks ago I found it too mannered and his sempre
staccatissimo articulation becomes grating after a while.
I also like Gilels Eroica-Var. from the DG-Box with the (almost
complete) sonatas. Very good characterization without going over the top.
Which label is Arrau's on?
Johannes
Johannes Roehl
> In article
> <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
> mandryka<howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
>> about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
>> live, with bad sound.
>
> Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
> none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
> Schumann Op 13.
Which label is that on? Aren't there several recordings/live concerts by
Richter?
Johannes
Alan Cooper
news:4d51d86e$0$6878$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net:
DeLarrocha (in the Decca "Art of ADeL" box or one of the GPOC volumes); Kalish
(Nonesuch download).
AC
Jáns
Still available on Brilliant Classics. 5 CDs, including Diabelli
Variations & Bagatelles.
Kip Williams
> Am 08.02.2011 07:09, schrieb mandryka:
>> I’d say the chaconne like C minor WoO 80 is a real masterpiece. And
>> I like the Eroica Variations too.
>>
>> I've enjoyed Arrau and Gilels for the former; Arrau’s 1952 recording
>> for the latter.
>>
>> Who else has recorded these pieces well?
>
> I think Gould's disc of WoO 80, op. 34 and 35 is one of his best; rather
> slow, but clear and powerful. Mustonen is interesting, but relistening
> to that one a few weeks ago I found it too mannered and his sempre
> staccatissimo articulation becomes grating after a while.
I am inextricably imprinted on Rachmaninoff for the [32] variations — of
which RCA let him put maybe 26 on the record, in order to fit their medium.
Kip W
Presuming I'm talking about the same piece.
Jáns
32 variations in C minor, perhaps? (WoO 80). If only he (Beethoven)
had changed key now and then I might enjoy this piece more. OTOH,
maybe he did change key and I didn't notice. I think I need to listen
again.
Jáns
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry - I see that Johannes Roehl has aleady given the WoO number.
pianomaven
> I am inextricably imprinted on Rachmaninoff for the [32] variations — of
> which RCA let him put maybe 26 on the record, in order to fit THEIR medium.
Their medium? RCA's? That's the subject of the sentence, you know.
Or did you mean "the record's medium"? The record doesn't have a
medium, of course; it IS a medium.
78 RPM had two sizes of discs: 10" and 12". The 12" would have held
about five minutes of music, so, two-sided, 10 minutes in all.
I have an idea that SR himself trimmed the variations to suit his
purpose. He did it also to his own sets of Variations, most notably
the Corelli Variations, which he edited on the fly depending upon how
many coughs he heard in the audience.
TD
Dufus
> I have an idea that SR himself trimmed the variations to suit his
> purpose. He did it also to his own sets of Variations, most notably
> the Corelli Variations, which he edited on the fly depending upon how
> many coughs he heard in the audience.
>
Coughs, or was it snores ?
Ricky Jimenez
wrote:
All the variations I know, at least tonal ones, never change key,
except going between minor and major.
Jáns
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 05:20:38 -0800 (PST), Jáns <jansfarr...@gmail.com>
A very good observation, and one I hadn't really considered until you
pointed it out. Many thanks.
Johannes Roehl
Beethoven's op. 34 has each variation in a different key, and I am quite
sure that some of the Diabellis are "off-key" as well (the fugue, #32 is
in E flat major, for instance).
The c minor chaconne-style variation only has the traditional central
section in the major. It is an unusual piece, but I like it quite a bit.
Gould's neo-baroque way suits the piece well, IMO.
Johannes
mandryka
The EVs from the 50s which I think is certainly one of his best
Beethoven recording seems to only be here:
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
> The EVs from the 50s which I think is certainly one of his [Arrau] best
> Beethoven recording seems to only be here:
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Claudio-Arrau-Steinway-Legends/dp/B000PDZQR4/ref=
> sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1297269125&sr=1-1
Or for my fellow USAians, here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PDZQR4
Steve Emerson
Johannes Roehl <parr...@web.de> wrote:
> Am 08.02.2011 19:29, schrieb Steve Emerson:
> > In article
> > <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
> > mandryka<howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
> >> about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
> >> live, with bad sound.
> >
> > Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
> > none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
> > Schumann Op 13.
>
> Which label is that on?
I have it on Olympia, but it looks like the budget label Regis has it
out now as well; with, as in Olympia, two other sets of Beethoven
variations, but with a lesser Schumann coupling. There's a lot of
duplication between O/P Olympias and Regis, so it's a good guess this is
the same EV. MDT lists it currently.
> Aren't there several recordings/live concerts by Richter?
Yes, although this one is a studio recording (July 1970, Ariola-Eurodisc
according to Olympia). Better sound and more vigorously played than the
1968 that I have on Historic Performances. Don't know the rest.
SE.
Steve Emerson
"M. A." <not.f...@server.com> wrote:
> By the way, Annie Fischer's Haydn f-minor Variations (Hob XVII:6) on the
> BBC release are wonderful. Any other recommendations on that neglected
> work?
Ranki.
SE.
Steve Emerson
<fd95b59a-f5d3-42e1...@o10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 6:29 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5-b198-eb8069683...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
> > > about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
> > > live, with bad sound.
> >
> > Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
> > none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
> > Schumann Op 13.
> >
> > There's a Moravec WoO 80, as well as Gilels on Melodiya, btw.
Incidentally, this Gilels, which I spun yesterday, is pretty
extraordinary. Played with great virtuosity and attention to shifting
moods, occasionally reminding one of Gilels's remarkable Schumann
playing.
> Yes -- the Moravec isn't bad. In my own collection I just found
> Cziffra (I have it in his Introuvables) -- I've never played it before
> and at first glance it's special. Rather refined and poetic (Cziffra's
> quite an enigmatic pianist -- I'm just starting to see that.)
>
> And then I found this one [WoO 80?] from Vedernikov on youtube which
> certainly has the "requisite energy and none of the angularity smoothed"
(Which, not to be too curmudgeonly, I wrote of a set of Eroica
Variations.)
> Do you have it in good sound, Steve?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vedernikov+beethoven+variations&aq
> =o
I don't. But you can get it from HMV Japan. Which, to my great
surprise, also lists a release of Vedernikov's Bach Partitas. The
several LPs for these have been commanding huge prices and I was unaware
of a CD release. The three that I know are galvanic and unforgettable.
SE.
Dontait...@aol.com
>
> > I am inextricably imprinted on Rachmaninoff for the [32] variations — of
> > which RCA let him put maybe 26 on the record, in order to fit THEIR medium.
>
> Their medium? RCA's? That's the subject of the sentence, you know.
>
> Or did you mean "the record's medium"? The record doesn't have a
> medium, of course; it IS a medium.
>
> 78 RPM had two sizes of discs: 10" and 12". The 12" would have held
> about five minutes of music, so, two-sided, 10 minutes in all.
Rachmaninoff's recording of the C Minor Variations was on one 12"
Victor record (catalogue number 6544). The work is too long to be
contained complete on one two-sided 12" 78. Other 78 recordings
reflected that: Horowitz's was on three sides of two 10" records;
Denis Matthews's English Columbia 78 version was on three sides of two
12" records.
Don Tait
mandryka
> In article <4d51d86e$0$6878$9b4e6...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>,
> "M. A." <not.for....@server.com> wrote:
>
> > By the way, Annie Fischer's Haydn f-minor Variations (Hob XVII:6) on the
> > BBC release are wonderful. Any other recommendations on that neglected
> > work?
>
> Ranki.
>
> SE.
Oh yes. How could I have forgotten
mandryka
> > =o
>
> I don't. But you can get it from HMV Japan. Which, to my great
> surprise, also lists a release of Vedernikov's Bach Partitas. The
> several LPs for these have been commanding huge prices and I was unaware
> of a CD release. The three that I know are galvanic and unforgettable.
>
> SE.
Yes that's interesting. I think I'll order some of those CDs.
I've read somewhere that his Franck Prelude, Fugue & Variations is
particularly good. And the Handel G minor suite No. 9 and Weber
Sonata No. 1.
Johannes Roehl
> In article<8rf23q...@mid.individual.net>,
> Johannes Roehl<parr...@web.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 08.02.2011 19:29, schrieb Steve Emerson:
>>> In article
>>> <4ecfe5bc-f466-4ed5...@q14g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> mandryka<howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's Richter in the Eroica Variations too (I can't remember much
>>>> about it -- I'll play it again tonight); and there's Yudina in WoO80
>>>> live, with bad sound.
>>>
>>> Richter's Eroica Variations are superb, with the requisite energy and
>>> none of the angularity smoothed. The set I have is the coupling for his
>>> Schumann Op 13.
>>
>> Which label is that on?
>
> I have it on Olympia, but it looks like the budget label Regis has it
> out now as well; with, as in Olympia, two other sets of Beethoven
> variations, but with a lesser Schumann coupling. There's a lot of
> duplication between O/P Olympias and Regis, so it's a good guess this is
> the same EV. MDT lists it currently.
Thanks, I think I have the symphonic etudes already on a different
Regis disc, so the novelettes are fine with me as a coupling.
Do you happen to know the DG Gilels recording?
Johannes
Kip Williams
> On Feb 9, 7:37 am, pianomaven<1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 8:10 am, Kip Williams<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> which RCA let him put maybe 26 on the record, in order to fit THEIR medium.
>>
>> Their medium? RCA's? That's the subject of the sentence, you know.
RCA manufactured records. They were their medium in this case. I'm
fairly sure this is obvious to almost everyone reading.
(I didn't capitalize it like that, either ("THEIR"). Please don't alter
my words when you quote them, Deac. It's dishonest.)
>> Or did you mean "the record's medium"? The record doesn't have a
>> medium, of course; it IS a medium.
>>
>> 78 RPM had two sizes of discs: 10" and 12". The 12" would have held
>> about five minutes of music, so, two-sided, 10 minutes in all.
You forgot to mention that they had a hole in the middle, idiot.
> Rachmaninoff's recording of the C Minor Variations was on one 12"
> Victor record (catalogue number 6544). The work is too long to be
> contained complete on one two-sided 12" 78. Other 78 recordings
> reflected that: Horowitz's was on three sides of two 10" records;
> Denis Matthews's English Columbia 78 version was on three sides of two
> 12" records.
You can tell him, Don, but don't count on him to listen.
Kip W
johntramsay
of my favorite recordings ever.
Steve Emerson
Johannes Roehl <parr...@web.de> wrote:
> Do you happen to know the DG Gilels recording? (Eroica Var's)
I don't think I do. Will have to look for it.
SE.
Steve Emerson
<7b5f33e2-562f-43cf...@d17g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > And then I found this one [WoO 80?] from Vedernikov on youtube which
> > > certainly has the "requisite energy and none of the angularity smoothed"
> >
> > (Which, not to be too curmudgeonly, I wrote of a set of Eroica
> > Variations.)
> >
> > > Do you have it in good sound, Steve?
> >
> > >http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vedernikov+beethoven+vari...
> > > =o
> >
> > I don't. But you can get it from HMV Japan. Which, to my great
> > surprise, also lists a release of Vedernikov's Bach Partitas. The
> > several LPs for these have been commanding huge prices and I was unaware
> > of a CD release. The three that I know are galvanic and unforgettable.
> >
> > SE.
>
> Yes that's interesting. I think I'll order some of those CDs.
>
> I've read somewhere that his Franck Prelude, Fugue & Variations is
> particularly good. And the Handel G minor suite No. 9 and Weber
> Sonata No. 1.
I may have heard the Franck, not sure; but the Weber is a kick and
definitely worth hearing. The companion Brahms Op 5 is a keeper as well.
SE.
mandryka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR5AVUiNI-0
Is it on CD anywhere? Is there a Gould discography?
Lena
> On Feb 8, 1:09 am, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Variations-Ludwig-van/dp/B000023Y1H...
>
Me too. I also like Mustonen. These are the ones I listen to most.
Many others have merits, but I don't have the time to round them up
right now to remind myself of what the merits might be, exactly.
(Richter's aggression merits or demerits in the Eroica variations may
though be hard to forget.)
Lena
weary flake
I really don't know, but Urania 410 might be it,
the CD says "recording date unknown" on the back:
http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Concertos-32-Variations-Minor/dp/B004C5M25K/
This might be the video from where youtuber got it,
as listed by BRO:
Label: PDVD
BRO Code: 144057
Label Cat. #: PDVD 104
Format: DVD
Amount/set: 1
Audio Type: Mono
Genre: Piano Concerti
Country: AMERICA
Bach, Keyboard Concerto #1 in d [w.Ottawa Philharmonic/ Thomas Mayer]. Beethoven, Movement I from
Piano Concerto #1 [cond. Paul Scherman]; 32 Variations in c. ('Glenn Gould Collection, Volume 6:
The Earliest Decade'. PLEASE NOTE: Limited-pressing DVD-R)
Add to cart
Price: $9.99