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Zhukov panned!
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Frank Berger
May 3, 2021, 12:46:26 PM5/3/21
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Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
Message has been deleted
Frank Berger
May 3, 2021, 8:39:30 PM5/3/21
to
On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
>
> dk
>
When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
ZHUKOV LONG ON TECHNIQUE, SHORT ON EMOTION
Dan Tucker. Special to the TribuneCHICAGO TRIBUNE
Moscow pianist Igor Zhukov appeared at Orchestra Hall on Tuesday instead of the ailing Ivo Pogorelic, but it would be a mistake to say he took Pogorelic's place. In a program of Prokofiev, Chopin and his own specialty, Scriabin, Zhukov showed himself a stunning technician with all the emotional input of a tape recorder.
His most successful offering was Prokofiev's "Visions Fugitives," a collection of 20 short, vivid musical notions that never turned into full-length compositions. If these "fleeting visions" have a theme, it is variety: They have virtually nothing in common besides brevity and Prokofiev's mastery of pianistic effects. All this seems to suite Zhukov exactly. Instead of a title, each of these pieces has a direction: "slow," "with elegance," "picturesquely" and even "ridiculously."
Zhukov can ably draw a free-standing sketch. He was able to project them all so clearly that you hardly needed the title.
But he seemed unable to make the longer pieces jell or to project any sense of form. The B-Minor Sonata of Chopin, who wasn't strong on form anyway, was all just lines with changes in volume but not in meaning.
If this shapelessness was noticeable there, it became downright oppressive in three works of Alexander Scriabin. Zhukov has recorded his piano concerto and all of his sonatas, but to judge from this concert, it would be hard to find a composer and a pianist less suited to each other.
Scriabin was a self-styled mystic who made a virtual religion out of his own emotions. Zhukov is such a cool, remote performer that he seems barely involved in the process of playing. As a result, the Sonata in F-Sharp Minor, Opus 28; the Fantasy in B-Minor, Opus 23; and the Sonata No. 4 in F-Sharp Major seemed like the same long piece: turbulent, murky and mostly loud.
Zhukov tossed off their immense technical difficulties with polished ease. In fact, he conveyed everything in the music except what it was about.
> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
>
> dk
>
When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
ZHUKOV LONG ON TECHNIQUE, SHORT ON EMOTION
Dan Tucker. Special to the TribuneCHICAGO TRIBUNE
Moscow pianist Igor Zhukov appeared at Orchestra Hall on Tuesday instead of the ailing Ivo Pogorelic, but it would be a mistake to say he took Pogorelic's place. In a program of Prokofiev, Chopin and his own specialty, Scriabin, Zhukov showed himself a stunning technician with all the emotional input of a tape recorder.
His most successful offering was Prokofiev's "Visions Fugitives," a collection of 20 short, vivid musical notions that never turned into full-length compositions. If these "fleeting visions" have a theme, it is variety: They have virtually nothing in common besides brevity and Prokofiev's mastery of pianistic effects. All this seems to suite Zhukov exactly. Instead of a title, each of these pieces has a direction: "slow," "with elegance," "picturesquely" and even "ridiculously."
Zhukov can ably draw a free-standing sketch. He was able to project them all so clearly that you hardly needed the title.
But he seemed unable to make the longer pieces jell or to project any sense of form. The B-Minor Sonata of Chopin, who wasn't strong on form anyway, was all just lines with changes in volume but not in meaning.
If this shapelessness was noticeable there, it became downright oppressive in three works of Alexander Scriabin. Zhukov has recorded his piano concerto and all of his sonatas, but to judge from this concert, it would be hard to find a composer and a pianist less suited to each other.
Scriabin was a self-styled mystic who made a virtual religion out of his own emotions. Zhukov is such a cool, remote performer that he seems barely involved in the process of playing. As a result, the Sonata in F-Sharp Minor, Opus 28; the Fantasy in B-Minor, Opus 23; and the Sonata No. 4 in F-Sharp Major seemed like the same long piece: turbulent, murky and mostly loud.
Zhukov tossed off their immense technical difficulties with polished ease. In fact, he conveyed everything in the music except what it was about.
Message has been deleted
Frank Berger
May 3, 2021, 10:41:24 PM5/3/21
to
On 5/3/2021 8:50 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> Thanks for posting the article.
>
Not an expert, but I don't see what cookies have to do with it. Perhaps when you cut and pasted only part of the string got copied.
> Since we all have access to Igor's recordings of these works, we can
> use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
>
Since we will never hear that 1997 performance in Chicago (I assume) we will never know. Since I knew that going in, I suppose there was no real point in sharing the review. Like you said, the reviewer is wrong, or Zhukov had an off night. I suppose if we had information about Zhukov's consistency in performance and/or we knew something about the reviewer's reputation, we could make an educated guess. But as it is, we can't.
> dk
>
> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
>>>>
>>>> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
>>>> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
>>>
>>> Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
>>> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
>>> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
>>
>
>> On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
>>>>
>>>> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
>>>> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
>>>
>>> Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
>>> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
>>> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
>>
>
>> When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I
>> have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
>
> Then possibly my browser's cookie settings are different from yours.
>> have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
>
> Thanks for posting the article.
>
Not an expert, but I don't see what cookies have to do with it. Perhaps when you cut and pasted only part of the string got copied.
> Since we all have access to Igor's recordings of these works, we can
> use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
>
Since we will never hear that 1997 performance in Chicago (I assume) we will never know. Since I knew that going in, I suppose there was no real point in sharing the review. Like you said, the reviewer is wrong, or Zhukov had an off night. I suppose if we had information about Zhukov's consistency in performance and/or we knew something about the reviewer's reputation, we could make an educated guess. But as it is, we can't.
> dk
>
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Lawrence Kart
May 4, 2021, 12:52:30 AM5/4/21
to
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 11:32:45 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> frightening degree. This is not to say he never turned off, however
> those moments were rare.
>
> dk
Dan Tucker, a freelancer and IIRC amateur composer, was the Tribune's third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after John Von Rhein and Alan Artner.
> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 10:41:24 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 5/3/2021 8:50 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >> On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >>> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >>>> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
> > >>>> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
> > >>> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> > >>> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
> > >>
> > >
> > >> When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I
> > >> have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
> > >
> > > Then possibly my browser's cookie settings are different from yours.
> > > Thanks for posting the article.
> > >
> > Not an expert, but I don't see what cookies have to do with it. Perhaps
> > when you cut and pasted only part of the string got copied.
> No cut/paste -- just right click t open the URL pointed to by the link.
> > On 5/3/2021 8:50 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >> On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >>> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >>>> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
> > >>>> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
> > >>>
> > >>> Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
> > >>> page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> > >>> you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
> > >>
> > >
> > >> When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I
> > >> have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
> > >
> > > Then possibly my browser's cookie settings are different from yours.
> > > Thanks for posting the article.
> > >
> > Not an expert, but I don't see what cookies have to do with it. Perhaps
> > when you cut and pasted only part of the string got copied.
> > > Since we all have access to Igor's recordings of these works, we can
> > > use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> > > fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> > > "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
> > >
> > Since we will never hear that 1997 performance in Chicago (I assume)
> > we will never know. Since I knew that going in, I suppose there was no
> > real point in sharing the review. Like you said, the reviewer is wrong, or
> > Zhukov had an off night. I suppose if we had information about Zhukov's
> > consistency in performance and/or we knew something about the reviewer's
> > reputation, we could make an educated guess. But as it is, we can't.
> >
> Igor was one of the most consistent pianists I heard, to an almost
> > > use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> > > fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> > > "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
> > >
> > Since we will never hear that 1997 performance in Chicago (I assume)
> > we will never know. Since I knew that going in, I suppose there was no
> > real point in sharing the review. Like you said, the reviewer is wrong, or
> > Zhukov had an off night. I suppose if we had information about Zhukov's
> > consistency in performance and/or we knew something about the reviewer's
> > reputation, we could make an educated guess. But as it is, we can't.
> >
> frightening degree. This is not to say he never turned off, however
> those moments were rare.
>
> dk
Dan Tucker, a freelancer and IIRC amateur composer, was the Tribune's third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after John Von Rhein and Alan Artner.
Néstor Castiglione
May 5, 2021, 9:33:25 PM5/5/21
to
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 5:50:27 PM UTC-7, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
You may also want to disable any ad-block software in case you have it on. Sometimes news sites will prevent one from reading their articles if ad-block is enabled. (There are crude ways around this, however, if one doesn't want to toggle it off.)
> On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
> > >>
> > >> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
> > >> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
> > >
> > > Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
> > > page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> > > you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
> >
> > On 5/3/2021 7:34 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 12:46:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> > >> Chicago tribune critic pans Zhukov live performance of Scriabin and Chopin op.35:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1997-02-20-9702200253-story.html
> > >>
> > >> I thought this was interesting in light of the discussions
> > >> about musical critique and the Chopin sonata.
> > >
> > > Clicking on the link provided lands one on the Tribune's main
> > > page rather than on an article as I suppose was intended. Do
> > > you have a subscription to the Tribune? I don't.
> >
> > When I click on the link I posted, it goes right to the story, and no I
> > have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
> > have no subscription. I don't understand it. Anyway here's the story:
> Then possibly my browser's cookie settings are different from yours.
> Thanks for posting the article.
>
> Thanks for posting the article.
>
> Since we all have access to Igor's recordings of these works, we can
> use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
>
> dk
> use our very own ears and brains to figure out if the review reflects
> fairly on Igor's performances. It is certainly possible he may have
> "turned off" that night. Otherwise, the reviewer is an idiot.
>
You may also want to disable any ad-block software in case you have it on. Sometimes news sites will prevent one from reading their articles if ad-block is enabled. (There are crude ways around this, however, if one doesn't want to toggle it off.)
Néstor Castiglione
May 5, 2021, 9:39:11 PM5/5/21
to
https://www.cedillerecords.org/artists/dan-tucker/
Can't say I agree with him about Zhukov in general, but it's rare now to find critics who have the courage of their convictions and print what they actually think.
Frank Berger
May 5, 2021, 9:49:58 PM5/5/21
to
number_six
May 5, 2021, 10:23:02 PM5/5/21
to
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 6:39:11 PM UTC-7, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> A brief bio on Tucker for those interested:
>
> https://www.cedillerecords.org/artists/dan-tucker/
>
And a wiki page about his namesake from the folk traditions:
> A brief bio on Tucker for those interested:
>
> https://www.cedillerecords.org/artists/dan-tucker/
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dan_Tucker
Combed his hair with a wagon wheel,
Died with a toothache in his heel...
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Frank Berger
Aug 9, 2022, 9:09:51 AM8/9/22
to
On 8/9/2022 8:08 AM, Wim wrote:
> In fact, a private CD release does exist of this recital, it is a release in the so called 'CSO presents Series'.
> Unfortunately a not-for-sale item. CD cover can be found @ https://www.igor-zhukov.info/releases_cd_cso.html
>
> It contains 3 tracks: Scriabin Sonata No. 3 & 4 + Fantasy in B minor.
Geez. I've been around a while and am a fan of the CSO. Never heard of "CSO Presnts" series.
The CD you refer to apparently omits some Chopin and Prokofiev that was on the program.
> Unfortunately a not-for-sale item. CD cover can be found @ https://www.igor-zhukov.info/releases_cd_cso.html
>
> It contains 3 tracks: Scriabin Sonata No. 3 & 4 + Fantasy in B minor.
Geez. I've been around a while and am a fan of the CSO. Never heard of "CSO Presnts" series.
The CD you refer to apparently omits some Chopin and Prokofiev that was on the program.
HT
Aug 9, 2022, 11:10:23 AM8/9/22
to
Op dinsdag 4 mei 2021 om 06:52:30 UTC+2 schreef ljk...@aol.com:
I never heard of any of them. It could very well be that Zhukov had an off-day.
Henk
Henk
Dan Koren
Aug 9, 2022, 11:19:46 AM8/9/22
to
> > Dan Tucker, a freelancer and IIRC amateur composer, was the Tribune's
> > third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after John Von Rhein
> > and Alan Artner.
>
> I never heard of any of them. It could very well be that Zhukov had an
> off-day.
I happen to know for a fact Igor actually had a very bad off-day in Chicago.
> > third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after John Von Rhein
> > and Alan Artner.
>
> I never heard of any of them. It could very well be that Zhukov had an
> off-day.
Details are confidential and cannot be shared.
As I mentioned earlier, Igor was one of the most consistent performing
artists to ever grace the stage. He was completely unruffled in the face
of glitches, poorly tuned pianos and audience noise and lack of courtesy.
He managed to produce amazing sounds from poorly tuned pianos and
unregulated actions. He was truly in the same league as Richter, Berman
and Gilels, and probably above the latter.
dk
Frank Berger
Aug 9, 2022, 11:33:57 AM8/9/22
to
Dan Koren
Aug 9, 2022, 11:57:19 AM8/9/22
to
On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 8:33:57 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 8/9/2022 11:10 AM, HT wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 4 mei 2021 om 06:52:30 UTC+2 schreef ljk...@aol.com:
> >>
> On 8/9/2022 11:10 AM, HT wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 4 mei 2021 om 06:52:30 UTC+2 schreef ljk...@aol.com:
> >>
> >> Dan Tucker, a freelancer and IIRC amateur composer, was the
> >> Tribune's third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after
> >> John Von Rhein and Alan Artner.
> >
> > I never heard of any of them. It could very well be that Zhukov
> > had an off-day.
As I mentioned earlier, he actually did.
> >> Tribune's third-string classical music reviewer at the time, after
> >> John Von Rhein and Alan Artner.
> >
> > I never heard of any of them. It could very well be that Zhukov
> > had an off-day.
> He was a not-quite-last minute fill in for someone else. Pogorelich
> maybe? I think he had a couple of weeks notice, so that shouldn't
> have been a problem.
to a short notice? It wasn't.
dk
Frank Berger
Aug 9, 2022, 12:00:32 PM8/9/22
to
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Frank Berger
Aug 9, 2022, 4:24:04 PM8/9/22
to
On 8/9/2022 2:05 PM, Wim wrote:
> It was not a last-minute. I have a newspaper article which is dated february 5, 1997 and does mention that Zh will replace Pogorelich.
That's what I said, and it was based on the same article.
That's what I said, and it was based on the same article.
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