ten commonments
Angayar kanni
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet
your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant,
nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
more details:
http://All4Webs.com/9/2/steelsszz/home.htm
notesetter
> ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
>
> TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of
> anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or
> that is in the water under the earth.'
Well, OK. I guess I need to get rid of my rubber duckie.
Paul
and your point is...?
Are you showing us that you know your Bible, or do you think music-
lovers need reminding of the 10 Commandments (not Commonments)?
HvT
He just felt the urge to remind us ...
Henk
WQGT447
Yeah, and my model trains have to go.
El Klauso
You'll have to pry my Beethoven bust from my cold, dead hands.
Likewise my Bruckner medal.
Frank Berger
What were the 5 commandments that we lost when Moses dropped the 3rd tablet
(in the Mel Brooks version of revelation)?
Alan Cooper
news:309bdcb9-aa05-4e9d...@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.c
om:
Your rubber duckie is "carved"? More likely molded. A wooden decoy, on the other
hand, might get you into trouble.
AC
Bob Lombard
They were qualifications for some of the previous commandments
1a: Or after me either.
2a: Photographs are OK.
6a: Applies to our tribes only.
8a: Same as 6a.
10a: Includes his Mercedes.
bl
Alan Cooper
news:GtudnYwMqt_lih7X...@supernews.com:
Somewhere in a pile I have a great supermarket tabloid article with a banner
headline about the "discovery" of a second set of ten. Can't remember what it
comprised, unfortunately. Until I dig it out, this will have to do.
The incomparable Moonglows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvVqSDFjMho
(One.) Thou shalt never love another.
(Two.) And stand by me all the while.
(Three.) Take happiness with the heartaches.
(Four.) And go through love wearing a smile.
And, oh, how happy we will be,
if we keep the ten commandments of love, of love.
(Five.) Thou should always have faith in me,
In everything I say and do.
(Six.) Love with all your heart and soul,
Until our life on earth is through.
Oh, how happy we will be,
If we keep the ten commandments of love.
Love, oh, sweet love, it's oh, oh, so grand.
You will find since the beginning of time,
It has rooted in all the land.
(Seven.) Come to me when I am lonely.
(Eight.) Kiss me when you hold me tight.
(Nine.) Treat me sweet and gentle.
(Ten.) And always do what's right.
An', oh, how happy we will be,
If we keep the ten commandments of love.
Oh, how happy we will be,
If we keep the ten commandments of,
Woo-woo-woo, ah-ah-ah, woo-hoo-hoo
The ten commandments of love.
AC
M forever
Does the wording fo the first commandment suggest that back then they
thought there were actually other gods, but that they just weren't
allowed to worship them because their one and only god was bigger and
better and had chosen them as his special people, and, as it also says
in the bible, he is a "jealous" god. "Jealous" of what? If there
aren't any other gods, he doesn't need to be jealous of them.
Bob Lombard
It seems reasonable to assume that the commandment was written in
Hebrew. A definitive translation could read differently. Does the German
version agree with the English? Derived from the Greek? Was there a
Greek translation of the Torah contemporaneous with the Greek assembly
of the New Testament? If not, how could the non-Jewish Christians ground
their belief?
Important questions all, you see.
bl
M forever
Yes, more or less completely.
> Derived from the Greek?
I think Luther's pioneering translation was made from the Greek
version, but since then, there have been many translations, some of
them directly from the original Hebrew.
> Was there a
> Greek translation of the Torah contemporaneous with the Greek assembly
> of the New Testament?
Yes, there was. It was (and still is) called the "Septuagint".
> If not, how could the non-Jewish Christians ground
> their belief?
Well, most people couldn't read anyway, so the majority would just
listen to and believe in the stories they were told, by whoever it was
who they listened to and who decided for them what to believe.
Frank Berger
Well, we Jews have around 3300 years of tradition that the first commandment
was *not* referring to actual other Gods. You can look it up.
Spam Stopper
Bob Harper
'gods' whose worship God forbids are understood to be false gods, i.e.,
demons. Sneer if you like (not that you [MF] need encouragement), but so
it is.
Bob Harper
Ward Hardman
[snip]
> TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet
> your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant,
> nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
In most bibles, "donkey" is replaced by "ass," which is taken as a
sign that Yahweh is displeased by same-sex relationships. ;-)
By the way, a web trace on your address shows that you are posting
from
escr: Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited
descr: 8th Floor,148-B,Statesman House, Barakhamba Road,
descr: New Delhi-110001
What is (I say this as an aficiando of raga) *your* concern with
Western classical music, to say nothing of Judeo-Christian religious
traditions?
(Also, why do you capitalize your first name, but not your last???)
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
William Sommerwerck
> was *not* referring to actual other Gods [sic]. You can look it up.
"Jewishness" did not come into existance overnight. The Jews tooks some time
determining exactly who they were and what their relationship to God was. It
is perfectly reasonable to interpret the commandment as referring to one god
out of many, and this interpretation is consistent with the second
commandment.
It also has the deeper meaning of not worshipping anything else, spiritual
or otherwise, a meaning all-too-often observed only in the breech,
especially by Americans.
Frank Berger
I made a statement about Jewish tradition, not what *is* true or what *you*
have to believe. What are you arguing for?
number_six
> snip <
> And Christians follow the Jewish tradition in this matter. The other
> 'gods' whose worship God forbids are understood to be false gods, i.e.,
> demons.
To my knowledge, the story of the young Abraham smashing the idols
does not appear in the Bible, but all three major monotheistic faiths
consider it an important part of his path to monotheism.
number_six
The Ten Condiments.
1. Mustard
2. Pickle
3. Ketchup
4. Mayonnaise
5. Salsa
6. Relish
7. Onions
8. Tabbouleh
9. Baba ganoush
10. Kim chi
Thou may have others, also. ;-)
William Sommerwerck
news:crydnfGLrOQe3RnX...@supernews.com...
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
The traditions of any group are not necessarily historically correct. And
you offered "tradition" as a justification for a particular interpretation.
Bob Harper
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_abrahamidols.htm
And here:
http://www.barmitzva.org/Earth/mount-03.html
Bob Harper
number_six
> number_six wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 8:15 pm, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> snip <
> >> And Christians follow the Jewish tradition in this matter. The other
> >> 'gods' whose worship God forbids are understood to be false gods, i.e.,
> >> demons.
>
> > To my knowledge, the story of the young Abraham smashing the idols
> > does not appear in the Bible, but all three major monotheistic faiths
> > consider it an important part of his path to monotheism.
>
> An interesting commentary here:
>
Thanks! Humor and wisdom are both in abundance here, and are both
part of why a tradition endures.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:8d060d87-d56d-4b36-ac59-224b71739f77
@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com:
>
> The Ten Condiments.
>
> 1. Mustard
> 2. Pickle
> 3. Ketchup
> 4. Mayonnaise
> 5. Salsa
Particularly, Pico de Gallo. ;--) ;--) ;--) ;--) ;--)
> 6. Relish
> 7. Onions
> 8. Tabbouleh
> 9. Baba ganoush
> 10. Kim chi
>
> Thou may have others, also. ;-)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
number_six
> number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following
I have some of Gallo's sonatas, but didn't know he had a piano
concerto!
Frank Berger
Didn't I *just* say that?
> And you offered "tradition" as a justification for a particular
> interpretation.
No, I simply offered up what the tradition *is*.
Why not respond to what people actually say, and not to some imaginary
meaning of your own device.
Kip Williams
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> And you offered "tradition" as a justification for a particular
>> interpretation.
>
> No, I simply offered up what the tradition *is*.
>
> Why not respond to what people actually say, and not to some imaginary
> meaning of your own device.
You can't talk about my momma that way!
Kip W
M forever
In this matter, but not in many others. Most importantly, they don't
agree that Jesus was "the Messiah". So why would you cite them as
backup? They effectively say that your religion is nonsense.
It's all pick and choose as they please anyway. But what does it
matter? Christianity is just a made up idol worshipping cult anyway,
that is totally transparent, and it is also in gross violation of the
commandment about just that all the time. Idols everywhere, in every
church, of all kinds of shapes and forms, and lots of different ones.
Christianity, especially Catholicism, is not a monotheist religion. It
is a polytheist pagan idol worshipping cult, despite the many attempts
to explain that away by abstruse "theological" explanations. All the
many saints and the worshipping of holy relics clearly show otherwise.
They don't even just worship images of god, Jesus, his mother,
countless saints, they even worship bones and so-called holy objects.
In St.Peter's Dome, there is even a dead pope on display for people to
worship. I am not kidding. I have seen him myself, and all the idol
worshippers lining up to march past his glass sarcophagus.
> The other
> 'gods' whose worship God forbids are understood to be false gods, i.e.,
> demons. Sneer if you like (not that you [MF] need encouragement), but so
> it is.
That has nothing to do with sneering, just with looking at what the
text actually says. In the meantime, I looked up some word-for-word
translations of the original Hebrew text, and they do confirm that,
too. Besides, if you had actually read the bible, you would know that
long stretches of the OT are actually about the fact that many
Israelites did not buy into the concept of just one god at first, and
that they deviated from the practice of worshipping just one god for a
long time before that became the standard view. This view was
obviously only pursued with any strictness from the 7th century BC
onwards when the earlier layers of text of the OT were apparently
edited, probably for and very clearly reflecting the political agenda
of the rulers of Jerusalem in this period, as well as the political
realities of this time, not of the times the older texts allegedly
describe.
Anyway, all that just shows us more clearly that all this stuff is
just made up anyway. Thankfully, I have to say, because looking up
some of the texts and translation variations once again reminded me
what a primitive and horrible collection of tribal ideology these
texts are, with their commands to wipe out entire peoples and conquer
their lands and the threats of divine vengeance haunting the children
of sinners for many generations.
What primitive and childish nonsense.
O
<811d68fe-715a-44c3...@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, M
forever <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In St.Peter's Dome, there is even a dead pope on display for people to
> worship. I am not kidding. I have seen him myself, and all the idol
> worshippers lining up to march past his glass sarcophagus.
How does this really differ from the atheistic USSR putting the corpse
of Lenin on display?
-Owen
Bob Harper
> On Aug 13, 12:15 am, Bob Harper <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Frank Berger wrote:
While I would never call the nonsense you spew primitive, it is
certainly childish. It is also filled with a level of hatred I find
difficult to comprehend. But then I'm not sure I'd want to.
Bob Harper
M forever
That's not hatred. It's contempt and ridicule.
Hatred is the reaction that triggers *in you* because basically, you
can't refute what I say. The way I make my points may be a little
cynical, but it's all true
- the silly idol worshipping which doesn't even stop at displaying
mummified dead bodies
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-st-peters-basilica-photos/slides/d50_069
- the vast number of "saints", basically ersatz deities in a
polytheist pagan pantheon
- the display and worshipping of relics
- the countless pictures of Jesus, "God", the "Holy Virgin", all the
saints, all in clear disregard of the allegedly divine commandment
- the angry OT god's demand for genocide and conquest in his name
- the threat of condemnation even of many generations of children of
those who disobey "His" orders
All this nonsense is childish and silly enough. Add to that that
idiots like you actually believe in all that as being part of some
exalted religion, and on top of that, the only kind of transcendent
truth ever revealed to mankind - then childish and silly doesn't even
begin to describe it properly.
M forever
I forgot: since I made up none of the above, you are actually calling
all that nonsense yourself. I am not "spewing" anything here, just
giving examples which are all based in the historical reality of
your...uh..."faith".
M forever
> In article
> <811d68fe-715a-44c3-b1b5-8f42b7a53...@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, M
There is only one difference: Lenin does not wear a silly hat.
Kip Williams
It doesn't, really. I don't recall that it was brought up. It sometimes
seems that, just as Catholicism, to some extent, co-opted some earlier
polytheistic religions with a sort of saint-worship, so too did the
Communists in Russia co-opt their native church with a sort of
ruler-worship. It can be seen as a clever way to shift allegiances
without too radically changing the routine.
Kip W
O
<k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
All I can comment on is my impressions from Catholic schools, where the
Saints were not so much worshipped, but often prayed to for assistance.
They, along with the good angels (including the "Guardian" angels),
were kind of like uncles who were someplace else, but would send you
five bucks to help you out of a jam if you asked (prayed) to them the
right way.
-Owen
Roland van Gaalen
Op 14-08-09 15:23, in artikel 140820090923127349%ow...@denofinequityx.com, O
<ow...@denofinequityx.com> schreef:
Some religions are more ludicrous than others.
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl
Bob Lombard
My observations suggest that the saints were/are not worshiped. They
are, rather, souls 'with God's ear'.
On a related front, a sculpture in the likeness of some significant
'religious' is not automatically an idol. Even if prayers are addressed
while in front of a likeness of a saint, this doesn't signify that
either the saint or the likeness are being worshiped; the likeness
was/is often used as a focus for the prayer, perhaps converting a candle
glow into a laser beam as it were, and so more likely to be noticed by
the saint in Heaven. Given the living conditions of the multitudes, and
the obvious upper class disregard for the wishes of individuals within
the multitudes, the need for an accessible interlocutor with God is a
reasonable assumption for those people.
It seems to me that opera appreciators must be capable of 'suspension of
disbelief' in order to get the most entertainment from an opera. That
skill - suspension of disbelief - could also be used by atheists to
enhance understanding of those who are not atheists. We are not all of
us complete idiots IMO.
bl
Bob Harper
>> While I would never call the nonsense you spew primitive, it is
>> certainly childish. It is also filled with a level of hatred I find
>> difficult to comprehend. But then I'm not sure I'd want to.
>>
>> Bob Harper
>
> That's not hatred. It's contempt and ridicule.
>
> Hatred is the reaction that triggers *in you* because basically, you
> can't refute what I say. The way I make my points may be a little
> cynical, but it's all true
> - the silly idol worshipping which doesn't even stop at displaying
> mummified dead bodies
> http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-st-peters-basilica-photos/slides/d50_069
> - the vast number of "saints", basically ersatz deities in a
> polytheist pagan pantheon
> - the display and worshipping of relics
> - the countless pictures of Jesus, "God", the "Holy Virgin", all the
> saints, all in clear disregard of the allegedly divine commandment
> - the angry OT god's demand for genocide and conquest in his name
> - the threat of condemnation even of many generations of children of
> those who disobey "His" orders
>
> All this nonsense is childish and silly enough. Add to that that
> idiots like you actually believe in all that as being part of some
> exalted religion, and on top of that, the only kind of transcendent
> truth ever revealed to mankind - then childish and silly doesn't even
> begin to describe it properly.
Well excuuuuuse me for failing to note the difference. You make it
rather difficult, even impossible.
And no, for you I do not feel hatred, but only pity.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
will take as 'evidence' of the correctness of their dismissal of
religious faith. Nonetheless, your main point is apt. Siants are *not*
worshiped. Worship is due to God alone. Saints are venerated, but
there's a real distinction, which the skeptics here should look up so as
to be at least accurate when they comment.
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
LookingGlass
starting with...
1 Thou shalt spread no mayo upon thy Ham and Swiss on Rye.
2 Thou shalt keep wholly the capers.
3 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's chutney.
...etc.
Steve Emerson
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
>
> The incomparable Moonglows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvVqSDFjMho
>
> (One.) Thou shalt never love another.
> (Two.) And stand by me all the while.
> (Three.) Take happiness with the heartaches.
> (Four.) And go through love wearing a smile.
>
> And, oh, how happy we will be,
> if we keep the ten commandments of love, of love.
>
> (Five.) Thou should always have faith in me,
> In everything I say and do.
> (Six.) Love with all your heart and soul,
> Until our life on earth is through.
>
> Oh, how happy we will be,
> If we keep the ten commandments of love.
>
> Love, oh, sweet love, it's oh, oh, so grand.
> You will find since the beginning of time,
> It has rooted in all the land.
>
> (Seven.) Come to me when I am lonely.
> (Eight.) Kiss me when you hold me tight.
> (Nine.) Treat me sweet and gentle.
> (Ten.) And always do what's right.
>
> An', oh, how happy we will be,
> If we keep the ten commandments of love.
> Oh, how happy we will be,
> If we keep the ten commandments of,
> Woo-woo-woo, ah-ah-ah, woo-hoo-hoo
> The ten commandments of love.
Yes, one of the glories of recorded music. A piece of writing rendered
even more sublime by the vocal delivery.
And Aaron Neville's cover version is no slouch either, although the
Moonglows seem to have a better idea of how funny the whole thing is.
SE.
Frank Berger
> It seems to me that opera appreciators must be capable of 'suspension
> of disbelief' in order to get the most entertainment from an opera.
> That skill - suspension of disbelief - could also be used by atheists
> to enhance understanding of those who are not atheists. We are not
> all of us complete idiots IMO.
>
> bl
Yes, it's interesting to me that so many seem unable to engage in these
religion-related discussions in an abstract way. i.e., considering their
theologies, internal consistencies,etc. without imposing their own views on
religion. . E.G., I mentioned that Judaism has a age-old tradition which
"explains" the meaning of the 1st commandment. That is a true statement.
It doesn't mean that explanation is true, or that 1 let alone 10
commandments were even givenm, or that Mt. Sinai existed. Yet the statement
engenders all these analytical, atheistic, responses. A more mature
response would have been, "That's interesting. I didn't know that."
I doubt these sorts of responses are tolerated in a comparative religions
class.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:5ae20870-e871-47a0-b727-
df3b66...@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com:
Thou shalt not confuse Pico de Gallo with any concertante music.
Bob Harper
spread no mayo on the ham side, but on the lettuce side thou shalt
spread mayo'.
Bob Harper
William Sommerwerck
Frank Berger
I once ordered pastrami on white bread with mayo at a kosher deli in
Brooklyn just to see the look on the waiter's face. Then I told him I was
just kidding.
Roland van Gaalen
Op 14-08-09 18:53, in artikel
zEghm.463500$2p1.1...@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com, Bob Harper
<bob.h...@comcast.net> schreef:
More "humorous comment":
To become a saint, you must have a miracle on your CV.
From Wikipidia [I have not verified the miracle nor the rest of the
story--RvG]
<< In 2002, the Vatican recognized as a miracle the healing of a tumor in
the abdomen of an Indian woman, Monica Besra, following the application of a
locket containing Mother Teresa's picture. Monica Besra said that a beam of
light emanated from the picture, curing the cancerous tumor. It is claimed
that some of Besra's medical staff and, initially, Besra's husband insisted
that conventional medical treatment eradicated the tumor. An opposing
perspective of the claim is that Monica's medical records contain sonograms,
prescriptions, and physicians' notes that could conceivably prove whether
the cure was a miracle or not. Monica has claimed Sister Betta of the
Missionaries of Charity is holding them. The publication has received a "no
comments" statement from Sister Betta. The officials at the Balurghat
Hospital where Monica was seeking medical treatment are claiming that they
are being pressured by the Catholic order to declare the cure as a
miracle.>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa
Just an example.
Bob Lombard
bl
Bob Harper
> 0 Thou shalt not spread mayo on anything.
>
>
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:0N-
dnbilWuKKRRjXn...@supernews.com:
> I once ordered pastrami on white bread with mayo at a kosher deli in
> Brooklyn just to see the look on the waiter's face. Then I told him I was
> just kidding.
The only bad thing about having pastrami in a kosher deli is NO SWISS CHEESE!
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:h64foj$hn9$1...@news.eternal-
september.org:
> 0 Thou shalt not spread mayo on anything.
"Please, not to mention that name!"
William Sommerwerck
> is NO SWISS CHEESE!
So bring some along and secretly slip it in.
William Sommerwerck
news:qtlhm.464200$2p1....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> 0 Thou shalt not spread mayo on anything.
> Heretic!
Hey, you can call me a pervert and I won't object.
Bob Lombard
In this context perversion would require something as disgusting as
combining fluffernutter with your pastrami on rye.
bl
William Sommerwerck
> news:o5mhm.546454$jp1.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> Heretic!
Uck! Patooie!
One of my favorites is thick-cut salami with chunky peanut butter on lightly
toasted rye, washed down with Quik.
Other than that it's non-kosher (which doesn't apply to me), what do you
think?
Bob Lombard
Hmm. Worth a try - except for the Quik. Except for milk in the morning
and Citrucel before retiring, I seldom drink anything non-alcoholic.
bl
Frank Berger
Nothing. It's not even dairy-based, which would make it verboten to be
eaten with meat. I problably shouldn't have mentioned it was a kosher deli.
Probably I did because the "traditional way of eating pastrami - on rye
bread or a hard roll with mustard, might be more consistently maintained in
an "authentic" environment, I'm sorry I mentioned it.
Frank Berger
> "Frank Berger" <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:0N-
> dnbilWuKKRRjXn...@supernews.com:
>
>> I once ordered pastrami on white bread with mayo at a kosher deli in
>> Brooklyn just to see the look on the waiter's face. Then I told him
>> I was just kidding.
>
> The only bad thing about having pastrami in a kosher deli is NO SWISS
> CHEESE!
When I was a kid, a steak and a glass of milk couldn't be beat. Now that
I've kept kosher for around 30 years, they don't seem to go together. It's
all a matter of socialization..
graham
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9C679FA0AE6...@216.168.3.30...
> "Frank Berger" <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:0N-
> dnbilWuKKRRjXn...@supernews.com:
>
>> I once ordered pastrami on white bread with mayo at a kosher deli in
>> Brooklyn just to see the look on the waiter's face. Then I told him I
>> was
>> just kidding.
>
> The only bad thing about having pastrami in a kosher deli is NO SWISS
> CHEESE!
>
Frank Berger
Are you joking? That would be disrespectful to the restaurant and its
clientele.
Frank Berger
But Baco's are kosher!
Matthew�B.�Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:h64q32$93v$1...@news.eternal-
september.org:
>> The only bad thing about having pastrami in a kosher deli
>> is NO SWISS CHEESE!
>
> So bring some along and secretly slip it in.
I would not do that. I might take it home first, however, but never on the
premises.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
be typed in news:eqmhm.142865$Qg6....@newsfe14.iad:
With pastrami?? Are you joking?
Matthew�B.�Tepper
dnd8ljP3bbhjXn...@supernews.com:
Yep, and I've got a jar of them in my kitchen cabinet!
Matthew�B.�Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
I'd say that there are some things you might put in your mouth that I
wouldn't, but of course that's not a value judgement.
Bob Lombard
Oops, I didn't mention the black coffee, maybe because it's automatic
with breakfast. The more I contemplate that thick salami and chunky
peanut butter on toasted rye sandwich... may have to get the ingredients
tomorrow. Should go well with plonk red wine for lunch.
bl
William Sommerwerck
> peanut butter on toasted rye sandwich... may have to
> get the ingredients tomorrow. Should go well with plonk
> red wine for lunch.
Let us know. I really know what you think. For me, it's one of _the_ great
indulgent food treats. (The wine strikes me as a little too "classy", but I
never drink... wine... so I can't really judge.)
PS: Please don't use JIF. It's larded with sugar. Skippy is not too sugary,
and Adam's has no added sugar at all. You can also pour off a lot of Adam's
oil (useful for pot stickers) and reduce the calorie count.
William Sommerwerck
roll.
graham
> "graham" <gst...@shaw.ca> appears to have caused the following letters to
> be typed in news:eqmhm.142865$Qg6....@newsfe14.iad:
>
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy�@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C679FA0AE6...@216.168.3.30...
>>> "Frank Berger" <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> appears to have caused the
>>> following letters to be typed in news:0N-
>>> dnbilWuKKRRjXn...@supernews.com:
>>>
>>>> I once ordered pastrami on white bread with mayo at a kosher deli in
>>>> Brooklyn just to see the look on the waiter's face. Then I told him I
>>>> was just kidding.
>>>
>>> The only bad thing about having pastrami in a kosher deli is NO SWISS
>>> CHEESE!
>>>
>> or bacon!
>
> With pastrami?? Are you joking?
>
of white bread and lightly cooked, back bacon. You'll then wonder why
anyone would want to keep kosher. You could butter the bread but it is not
necessary{;-)
Kip Williams
> will take as 'evidence' of the correctness of their dismissal of
> religious faith. Nonetheless, your main point is apt. Siants are *not*
> worshiped. Worship is due to God alone. Saints are venerated, but
> there's a real distinction, which the skeptics here should look up so as
> to be at least accurate when they comment.
If you pray to someone, that qualifies as "a sort of" worship, which is
what I call it up there, so I suppose you're talking about someone else.
Kip W
Matthew�B.�Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
Peter Pan adds no sugar either.
LookingGlass
>
> In this context perversion would require something as disgusting as
> combining fluffernutter with your pastrami on rye.
Mmmm...!!! Fluffernutter...!!!
Bob Harper
> Bob Harper wrote:
(snip)
>> An oversimplification, with the kind of humorous comment that many
>> here will take as 'evidence' of the correctness of their dismissal of
>> religious faith. Nonetheless, your main point is apt. Siants are *not*
>> worshiped. Worship is due to God alone. Saints are venerated, but
>> there's a real distinction, which the skeptics here should look up so
>> as to be at least accurate when they comment.
>
> If you pray to someone, that qualifies as "a sort of" worship, which is
> what I call it up there, so I suppose you're talking about someone else.
>
>
> Kip W
suppose, call it that in some colloquial sense, but it isn't accurate.
Bob Harper
O
<SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com> wrote:
>
> More "humorous comment":
>
> To become a saint, you must have a miracle on your CV.
This may have changed, as Mother Teresa is on the candidate for Saint
track, and I don't think she had any purported miracles at all. Of
course, a miracle certainly helps.
-Owen
Roland van Gaalen
Op 15-08-09 07:27, in artikel 150820090127461063%ow...@denofinequityx.com, O
<ow...@denofinequityx.com> schreef:
???
According to the BBC the healing of Monica Besra was certified by the
Vatican as a miracle
"cured of cancer by placing a photograph of the nun on her stomach"
What a hoax.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2593073.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2299217.stm
--
Roland van Gaalen
Amsterdam
R.P.vanGaalenATchello.nl
William Sommerwerck
Only the no-sugar-added version. It presumably has partially hydrogenated
oils to keep it from separating. (The online data is incomplete here.) Adams
is nothing but peanuts and a bit of salt.
Roland van Gaalen
Op 15-08-09 07:27, in artikel 150820090127461063%ow...@denofinequityx.com, O
<ow...@denofinequityx.com> schreef:
> In article <C6ABADF1.90A9%SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com>, Roland van Gaalen
???
graham
"Roland van Gaalen" <SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com> wrote in message
news:C6AC7EC6.9107%SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com...
But then, the whole veneration of Ma Theresa is nothing short of a hoax.
Graham
Roland van Gaalen
<gst...@shaw.ca> schreef:
The good news is that the younger generation isn't very interested.
See for example today's Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/neither-practising-nor-believin
g-but-catholic-even-so/article1252792/
Bob Harper
No. Evidence of one miracle is a precondition for beatification;
evidence of a second miracle is required for canonization. That many
here consider the whole thing ridiculous is not surprising, nor does it
change anything. The process will go forward as it has for centuries,
skeptics or not.
Bob Harper
Anti-Troll-01
John
Mind your own business, Anti-Troll 02.
John
> [Thread restored]
>
> Mind your own business, Anti-Troll 02.
Anti-Troll 01, I mean.
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams wrote:
>> Bob Harper wrote:
> (snip)
>>> An oversimplification, with the kind of humorous comment that many
>>> here will take as 'evidence' of the correctness of their dismissal of
>>> religious faith. Nonetheless, your main point is apt. Siants are
>>> *not* worshiped. Worship is due to God alone. Saints are venerated,
>>> but there's a real distinction, which the skeptics here should look
>>> up so as to be at least accurate when they comment.
>>
>> If you pray to someone, that qualifies as "a sort of" worship, which
>> is what I call it up there, so I suppose you're talking about someone
>> else.
>>
> suppose, call it that in some colloquial sense, but it isn't accurate.
Is "sort of" an intensifier in your dialect, or do you just skip over it
like it wasn't there? To you, does praying to someone just mean you
respect them somewhat?
Kip W
Bob Harper
'Sort of', as you use it, is not an intensifier, but rather sloppy
thinking/understanding. When I pray to a Saint, it is to ask that Saint
to intercede with God on my behalf. To that Saint I offer my veneration,
but not my worship. That, as I have already said, is reserved to God alone.
Bob Harper
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams wrote:
>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>> Kip Williams wrote:
>>>> Bob Harper wrote:
>>> (snip)
>>>>> An oversimplification, with the kind of humorous comment that many
>>>>> here will take as 'evidence' of the correctness of their dismissal
>>>>> of religious faith. Nonetheless, your main point is apt. Siants are
>>>>> *not* worshiped. Worship is due to God alone. Saints are venerated,
>>>>> but there's a real distinction, which the skeptics here should look
>>>>> up so as to be at least accurate when they comment.
>>>>
>>>> If you pray to someone, that qualifies as "a sort of" worship, which
>>>> is what I call it up there, so I suppose you're talking about
>>>> someone else.
>>>>
>>> Except that what is offered/due to saints isn't 'worship'. ONe may, I
>>> suppose, call it that in some colloquial sense, but it isn't accurate.
>>
>> Is "sort of" an intensifier in your dialect, or do you just skip over
>> it like it wasn't there? To you, does praying to someone just mean you
>> respect them somewhat?
>
> thinking/understanding. When I pray to a Saint, it is to ask that Saint
You were treating it as the opposite of what it was, a de-intensifier,
so I was wondering just how you were reading it.
> to intercede with God on my behalf. To that Saint I offer my veneration,
> but not my worship. That, as I have already said, is reserved to God alone.
Okay.
Kip W
JohnGavin
>
> - Show quoted text -
My spiritual philosophy is somewhat similar and somewhat different.
A true Saint embodies divinity and manifests those divine qualities in
their lives. I don't see them as being seperate from God - therefore
worshiping a saint is IMO the same as worshiping that aspect of God
that they embody.
In many areas of the world, Mary is worshipped as the embodiment of
goodness and purity. She is not seen as a seperate entity.
In my faith, there is not God and everything else which is not God,
but rather, God is in all, and is all, whether hidden, veiled or
revealed.
Norman Schwartz
"Kip Williams" <k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:z8_hm.30958$rD6....@newsfe01.iad...
So then God can be influenced by a Saint?
To that Saint I offer my veneration,
>> but not my worship. That, as I have already said, is reserved to God
>> alone.
>
> Okay.
>
Not Okay.
>
> Kip W
Frank Berger
"Not Okay" in what sense?
You know that Jews have an ancient tradition of praying at the gravesites of
Tzadikim (righteous people), especially on fast days and during period of
difficulty. It is hoped that the neshamas (souls) of these great people
will intercede with God on our behalf. There are numerous reference to this
in the Talmud and Zohar. The prayers are not directed to them, however. I
suppose in a theological sense this is a huge difference from the Catholic
practice of actually prayer *to* saints, but to me it's kind of a yawner,
especially considering the infinitely larger question of whether believing
in the divinity of Jesus constitutes idol worship.
M forever
It does, obviously. Idol worship does not necessarily mean that people
have to dance ecstatically around a golden calf or lie on the floor in
front of the carved idol. Idols can have many forms and idol
worshiping has many forms, too.
There are countless images of Jesus everywhere in Christian cults of
all sorts, as well as images of "God" himself, and many other
characters in the polytheist Christian pantheon. Jesus' mother, the
saints, some of which have a very high status, too, like St.Peter and
St.Paul, the list is endless.
And all these characters are worshiped through the use of idols,
icons, statues, medals and infinite other variations of graphical
representation.
Whether they are, in "official" language, "worshiped", "venerated",
"glorified", "adored" or whatever vocabulary one might want to use is
fairly irrelevant. All of these words have overlapping meanings
anyway. The exact meanings depend on definition and those change in
various languages and the way they are used in various Christian cults
in addition to that. There is no point in splitting hairs about the
exact meanings of such words like lawyers, although that is of course
what a lot of "theology" is really about.
The direct worshiping of Jesus and "God" and the intense cults of the
"Holy Virgin" and other players in Christian mythology alone more than
enough qualify Christianity in all or most of its many variations as
idol worshiping cults.
Add to that the role the many saints play, no matter if they are
"worshiped" or "venerated" or whatever, and you have what is obviously
a pagan polytheist cult, not a monotheist religion. In addition to
that, many saints are the object of idol worshiping themselves,
through images or other representations, relics, and sometimes even
through the worship of their mortal remains themselves. Often, these
are displayed in churches and carried around for processions as
thedirect objects of idol worshiping.
Not only does it not matter that the cult of the saints is
"technically" on a lower level of "worship" or "veneration" than that
of "God" or the miracle man from Nazareth - what matters is that they
are all part of a complex system of supernatural divine or quasi-
divine beings who can be interacted with and who can be addressed,
worshiped, given sacrifices (or "donations") to in order to secure
good fortune and divine favors for the "believers".
Most importantly, that is exactly the way it is in most other
polytheist idol worshiping cults, too.
In fact, it is very typical for them to have gods and demi-gods and
supporting personnel of all sorts of grades, including human beings
who somehow climbed up to a higher, quasi-divine status.
While the many Christian churches act like they condemn all these
practices in other religions, what they do is pretty much the same, no
matter how hard they try to explain that away with theological
hairsplitting and abstruse constructs which often fill whole
libraries.
The reason Christianity in its many forms is like that is very
obvious: there is no real difference between it and other religions.
In fact, Christianity was shaped by taking over or assimilating many
of the religious practices of other cults, including their holidays
and ritual practices, and as such it has next to nothing to do with
the miracle man from Nazareth but it is a reflection of its very
worldly history and genesis (pun intended).
That doesn't make Christianity any "worse" than other religions, BTW -
it just makes it exactly the same, nothing more, nothing less.
Religions, like other forms of human culture, are all man-made and
they all have many or most of the same elements in common, if in
endless detail variation.
JohnGavin
O
<SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com> wrote:
> Op 15-08-09 07:27, in artikel 150820090127461063%ow...@denofinequityx.com, O
> <ow...@denofinequityx.com> schreef:
>
> > In article <C6ABADF1.90A9%SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com>, Roland van Gaalen
> > <SeeSig...@DeadSpam.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> More "humorous comment":
> >>
> >> To become a saint, you must have a miracle on your CV.
> >
> > This may have changed, as Mother Teresa is on the candidate for Saint
> > track, and I don't think she had any purported miracles at all. Of
> > course, a miracle certainly helps.
> >
>
> ???
>
>
> According to the BBC the healing of Monica Besra was certified by the
> Vatican as a miracle
>
> "cured of cancer by placing a photograph of the nun on her stomach"
>
> What a hoax.
My apologies. I knew in the past, the prospective Saint needed a
miracle, but when I heard that MT was on the fast track, and I couldn't
think of any related works of wonder she did, so I reckon you must be
right.
-Owen
Norman Schwartz
"Frank Berger" <frank.d...@dal.frb.org> wrote in message
news:ocydnc39Z6_eFxXX...@supernews.com...
My concept of a God (if there is such an item) is personal and probably
doesn't comform to that of any organised religion. In my mind such a 'God'
wouldn't be listening to anyone nor taking their advice under consideration.
>
Frank Berger
Hmm. A God that doesn't listen to anyone and doesn't take advice. Whats't
the difference between such a God and no God at all?