Mahler 9 by Bernstein with Berlin

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I wonder what people who have heard this recording think of it. I have it and like it. American Record Guide recommends it as one of the best. Our pal Dave Hurwitz hates it. This is the "live" recording on DG and the only time Lenny ever conducted the Berlin Philharmonic.

MIFrost

[Alex Brown]

On 2020-07-02 20:37, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
> I wonder what people who have heard this recording think of it. I have it and like it. American Record Guide recommends it as one of the best. Our pal Dave Hurwitz hates it. This is the "live" recording on DG and the only time Lenny ever conducted the Berlin Philharmonic.
>
> MIFrost
>

I have it (from some big Berlin box) but have never listened, mainly
because I know in the finale there is the infamous moment when the brass
(deliberately?) fail to play at the main climax. Even if everything else
worked, this effectively sabotages the symphony.


--
- Alex Brown

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

Yes. I know. It's the trombones that are supposed to play *with* the trumpets and they fail to come in. So the trumpets play alone for a few seconds. But it's only one short moment and it's only noticeable if you're aware of it and listening for it. Otherwise I think it's worth listening to.

MIFrost

[John Fowler]

> Yes. I know. It's the trombones that are supposed to play *with* the trumpets and they fail to come in. So the trumpets play alone for a few seconds. But it's only one short moment and it's only noticeable if you're aware of it and listening for it. Otherwise I think it's worth listening to.
>
> MIFrost

I never noticed this before.
How could all three trombones miss their entrance?

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

I know. That's why some think it was deliberate. A shot at Bernstein. It's all speculation really.

MIFrost

[uof...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 7:08:47 AM UTC-4, John Fowler wrote:

To be sure LB noticed it. How did he react to it?

[87go...@gmail.com]

Let's be clear. First: the trombones do not double the trumpets at all at the moment in question. Actually, there is only a single trumpet playing initially, in counterpoint with them. They are solo (or should be) and they have the main theme. So they are essential. They remain missing in action for the entire passage--much more than just a few seconds. Rumor has it that someone sitting behind the orchestra was taken ill and fell out of their seat. You can actually hear some odd noises of that sort just before the climax. Whether this is the truth I don't know, but this is just the final insult to a performance full of sub-par playing from the orchestra.

Dave H

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

Thanks for clarifying, Dave. I knew you'd be lurking here somewhere. ;-) Nice to hear from you.

MIFrost

[87go...@gmail.com]

Yes, I check in here now and again for the very helpful mentions of new releases--believe it or not, you often have the info before I see it anywhere else, so you're quite a resource. I hope everyone is doing well (and thanks to those of you who subscribed to my YouTube Channel).

Dave H

[Bozo]

>On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 5:03:55 PM UTC-5, 87go...@gmail.com wrote:
>Whether this is the truth I don't know, but this is just the final insult to a performance full of sub-par playing >from the orchestra.

What did the BPO not like about LB ? TIA.

[Raymond Hall]

On Saturday, 4 July 2020 16:18:25 UTC+10, dk wrote:

> On Friday, July 3, 2020 at 5:55:22 PM UTC-7, Bozo wrote:
> >
> > What did the BPO not like about LB ? TIA.
>

> Perhaps being Jewish?
>
> dk

Bernstein only got to conduct the Berlin PO once and it was the Mahler 9th. He waived his fee as donations were in aid of Amnesty International. According to the link below the rehearsals went well, (a refreshing change from HvK accordingly) and I cannot believe there was any deliberate intention on the part of the trombones to sabotage their parts. Afaik.

https://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/en/titelgeschichten/20182019/bernstein/

Ray Hall, Taree

[arel64]

Does anybody really believe that the orchestra of this caliber could deliberately miss the entrance?

Here is the description of the incident:
https://ypsmusic.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-trombones-in-bernsteins-famous.html

In fact, Bernstein was invited to Berlin on several occasions. During the rehearsals, very good relationship between the orchestra and the conductor was established, and even the extension of working hours was willingly accepted:
https://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/en/titelgeschichten/20182019/bernstein

[John Fowler]

The audience is seated in the round at Berlin's Philharmonie.
Apparently someone seated behind the trombones died during the final movement of Mahler's Ninth which spooked the trombones.
But Bernstein kept on conducting until the end.
My question: Did they just prop the dead guy up in his seat until the concert was over?
Gives a new meaning to Weekend at Bernies.

[Alex Brown]

Is there any support for this version of events beyond one amazon review?

--
- Alex Brown

[Frank Berger]

Sounds like an urban myth.

And we thought Mahler was prophesying is own death.

[Alex Brown]

I notice M Schaffer (sometime OTP) pooh-poohing the story in the
comments on Amazon.

Surely for this "live" recording DGG could, as was their normal
practice, have patched things from a recording of the dress rehearsal?


--
- Alex Brown

[Frank Berger]

They could have patched a live guy as well as the trombones,
or is that what you meant?

[tomono...@hotmail.com]

> Surely for this "live" recording DGG could, as was their normal
> practice, have patched things from a recording of the dress rehearsal?

YES.

Bootleg makers released Non-patched recording (radio broadcast).

[John Fowler]

Bootleg makers released Non-patched recording (radio broadcast).

You can hear a faint voice saying "Gute Nacht, du falsche Welt" followed by a thud.