Haydn symphonies @ Berkshire
Lawrence H. Robins
thread - I would like some opinions on the following Haydn
symphony disks available at Berkshire (you are hereby
warned not to read further if afflicted with this disorder).
Here is what I have now:
Davis/LSO London symphonies, Bernstein/VPO 88+92,
Monteux/VPO 94+101, Solti/LPO 93+99, Szell 93+95+97.
I wouldn't give these up, but would like to hear how smaller
ensembles (either HIP or modern-instrument) approach these
works, and also to get to know some symphonies before 88.
I prefer performances that are lively, expressive, and
reveal the joy (or other emotional qualities) in this music
(hope the above isn't too vague). Concerning instrumental
forces (small vs. large, historic vs. modern), the only
thing I definitely don't like is a prominent harpsichord
part, which is included in some HIP performances although
perhaps not the ones listed here.
And, with a roll of the drum (#103), here's my list:
86 & 88. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
99 & 102. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
80, 87 & 89. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
83, 84 & 88. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
92 & 104. (English Sinfonia/Groves) CARLTON CLASSICS
44, 45 & 46. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
47, 48 & 49. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
39, 45 & 59. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
45 & 48. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
(note duplication)
94, 96 & 104.(English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
100 & 103. (English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
Thanks,
Larry Robins
Simon Roberts
: And, with a roll of the drum (#103), here's my list:
: 86 & 88. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
One of my favorite Haydn discs; HIP, no harpsichord at all (harpsichords
are particularly irritating in 86/iv, where their jangling ruins the
crucial five note phrase that recurs repeatedly in the bass); powerful,
Beethovenian peformances, with delightful lilt in 86/iii/trio (not as much
as Bernstein, though).
: 99 & 102. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
Almost as good. The effectiveness of the performances is undermined a bit
by the sound, which is less immediate than I would like; worth the price,
though.
: 80, 87 & 89. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
: 83, 84 & 88. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
Quite good, middle-of-the-road, mid-size orchestra, fairly stylish, crisp
and lively.
: 92 & 104. (English Sinfonia/Groves) CARLTON CLASSICS
Don't know.
: 44, 45 & 46. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
: 47, 48 & 49. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
I haven't heard these in a while, but if memory serves they're too genteel
for Sturm und Drang music and 48 is ruined by the bad old edition with the
horns playing an octave too low.
: 39, 45 & 59. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
: 45 & 48. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
: (note duplication)
Get the 45/48, one of the best Haydn symphony discs ever; tiny HIP
orchestra which plays with tremendous verve -- 45/i is positively frenzied
-- and no harpsichord. There's no better 48 than this, extremely
energetic and with stunning horn playing. Two symphonies on one disc may
seem like short measure, but in this case it's not -- they dish up ever
repeat.
: 94, 96 & 104.(English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
: 100 & 103. (English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
Quite good, elegant performances that lack the last degree of verve; if
they're cheap enough you may want to try one (Tate recorded all the London
symphonies and you may run across the rest).
Simon
Mark Perlman
SONY set of Haydn Syms 83-88 "Paris" Syms. It is a lot of fun, and lively
and expressive. NYPhil is not HIP, but they're hip.
Mark Perlman
Johan van Veen
Simon Roberts wrote:
> Lawrence H. Robins (lar...@concentric.net) wrote:
>
> : And, with a roll of the drum (#103), here's my list:
>
> : 86 & 88. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
>
> One of my favorite Haydn discs; HIP, no harpsichord at all (harpsichords
> are particularly irritating in 86/iv, where their jangling ruins the
> crucial five note phrase that recurs repeatedly in the bass); powerful,
> Beethovenian peformances, with delightful lilt in 86/iii/trio (not as much
> as Bernstein, though).
>
> : 99 & 102. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
>
> Almost as good. The effectiveness of the performances is undermined a bit
> by the sound, which is less immediate than I would like; worth the price,
> though.
People who buy the recordings of the Orchestra of the 18th Century should
realise that almost all recordings of the orchestra are live recordings. So I
suppose that the sound is influenced by the acousitcs of the concert hall
where the orchestra is playing, which are sometimes less than ideal. You win
some, you lose some: often live recordings have something special, and that is
definitely the case with this orchestra, which I have frequently heard in
Utrecht.
--
Johan van Veen
Utrecht (Netherlands)
jvv...@casema.net
ubi deus ibi pax
Marc Perman
>: 44, 45 & 46. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
>: 47, 48 & 49. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
>
>I haven't heard these in a while, but if memory serves they're too genteel
>for Sturm und Drang music and 48 is ruined by the bad old edition with the
>horns playing an octave too low.
I'll go back and listen to 48, but Janigro's Haydn strikes me as
appropriately dramatic and forceful in these works.
BTW, at Tower today I can across a new recording of the Paris
symphonies by Bruggen, for which Tower is charging $23.99 as an
import. Perhaps this is a two-for-one outside of the US? Has anyone
heard these?
Marc Perman
Simon Roberts
: BTW, at Tower today I can across a new recording of the Paris
: symphonies by Bruggen, for which Tower is charging $23.99 as an
: import. Perhaps this is a two-for-one outside of the US? Has anyone
: heard these?
Soddit. I paid full price x 2 via MDT a few weeks ago.... The
performances are superb. The 86 is much the same as the earlier one, the
83 may be the most dramatic I've heard, the first movement being properly
treated as the stormy, turbulent music it too often isn't. I was slightly
disappointed by 82 because the recording placed the brass and timpani
farther away than I prefer, but that's my only reservation.
Simon
Tony Movshon
Seconded (soddit included) -- a very fine set. The sound is fine to my
ears although it does differ quite a bit from symphony to symphony
(the recordings were done in different places).
Simon and I know that these things sound better when you pay pounds
for them than when you pay dollars, never mind the exchange rate. In
fact, in quantitative double-blind tests, I have found that a regular
16-bit/44 kHz mastered CD imported form overseas sounds significantly
better than a 24-bit remastered version bought domestically for less
money.
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
William Hunt
>
>
> Here is what I have now:
> Davis/LSO London symphonies, Bernstein/VPO 88+92,
> Monteux/VPO 94+101, Solti/LPO 93+99, Szell 93+95+97.
> I wouldn't give these up, but would like to hear how smaller
> ensembles (either HIP or modern-instrument) approach these
> works, and also to get to know some symphonies before 88.
>
If you like Szell for 93+95+97, you should try his 92+94+96. Not at
Berkshire but not expensive.
> And, with a roll of the drum (#103), here's my list:
>
> 86 & 88. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
I really like this 86. 88 is fine but I like several others better.
> 99 & 102. (Orchestra of the 18th Century/Bruggen) PHILIPS
I didn't find these to be anything special.
> 80, 87 & 89. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
> 83, 84 & 88. (London Mozart Players/Glover) ASV
I love these. Wonderful sense of Haydn style. I bought them several
years ago and the disks got bronzed. You can get them replaced if they
get bronzed later.
> 92 & 104. (English Sinfonia/Groves) CARLTON CLASSICS
>
> 44, 45 & 46. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
> 47, 48 & 49. (Zagreb Radio Orch./Janigro) VANGUARD
>
I saw good reviews but these haven't made a big impression on me. Worth
getting for 44, 16, 47, 49.
> 39, 45 & 59. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
> 45 & 48. (L'Estro Armonico/Solomons) SONY/CBS
> (note duplication)
>
This 45 is my favorite recording. This 48 is an over the top manic
performance. Very mood altering! Don't pass this one up.
Their 59 is very good too. The 39 is quite good but not better than
Blum on Vanguard. I'd get this disk too.
> 94, 96 & 104.(English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
> 100 & 103. (English Chamber Orch./Tate) ROYAL CLASSICS
I liked Tate for 99, 101. Ok for 102, 104. No experience with these
symphonies.
Other worthwhile Haydn Symphonies at Berkshire:
6, 7, 8 (National Arts Center Orchestra (Canada) / Chmura) CBC 2-5085.
style and energy.
60, 70, 81 (Esterhazy Orchestra / Blum) Vanguard Everyman
The best 81 I've heard. High energy.
70 is very good too.
I don't like any 60 very much.
39, 70, 73, 75 (Esterhazy Orchestra / Blum) Vanguard Everyman
All very good.
No too much choice for these.
most anything played by Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG.
80 has Szell like precision and lots of power.
81 is expecially good too.
91 is a bit sub-par for Orpheus.
102 is not competitive with the best 102s.
Marc Perman
How do they sound when you pay Canadian dollars for them?
Marc Perman
Simon Roberts
: Other worthwhile Haydn Symphonies at Berkshire:
[snip]
: 60, 70, 81 (Esterhazy Orchestra / Blum) Vanguard Everyman
: The best 81 I've heard. High energy.
: 70 is very good too.
: I don't like any 60 very much.
Have you heard the recent Hogwood and Fischer recordings? They're pretty
impressive, I think; on the other hand, you may not agree -- Blum's 60
gets my vote as one of the best Haydn recording ever.
: most anything played by Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG.
: 80 has Szell like precision and lots of power.
: 81 is expecially good too.
: 91 is a bit sub-par for Orpheus.
: 102 is not competitive with the best 102s.
Right; their 102 is remarkably lacking in power, grandeur and flair --
sounds rather trivial in their hands.
Simon
William Hunt
>
> Have you heard the recent Hogwood and Fischer recordings? They're pretty
> impressive, I think; on the other hand, you may not agree -- Blum's 60
> gets my vote as one of the best Haydn recording ever.
>
Which symphonies for the Hogwood and Fischer recordings?
Bill Hunt
Simon Roberts
Greg Fernandez
Simon Roberts <si...@dept.english.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:7p6h2u$55m$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
How do they handle the tune-up at the beginning of the last movement?
Simon Roberts
: How do they handle the tune-up at the beginning of the last movement?
They're both good, especially Hogwood in that particular segment. Did you
have something specific in mind?
Simon