Mahler Symphonies 1-9

John R. Wang

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Jun 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/21/97

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Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?

I have in mind:

Czech Philharmonic Orchestra/Vaclav Neumann (Supraphon)

Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Sir George Solti (London)

I'm slowly buying the cycle from the Polish National Radio Symphony
Orchestra/Antoni Wit and Michael Halasz on Naxos, but Mahler 8 is
missing.

Eric

Joseph Rizzo

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Jun 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/21/97

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You already have a (near) complete cycle from Naxos, I don't think you
would be doing yourself any good by buying another. Mahler and
Bruckner benefit from having different conductors doing different
symphonies. No one conductor does everything right. With that in
mind, you may want to look into the following recordings:

Symphony 1: Horenstein: Unicorn
: Mitropolous: Sony
Symphony 2: Barbirolli: (smaller labels)
: Klemperer: EMI
Symphony 3: Horenstein: Unicorn
Symphony 4: Szell: Sony
Symphony 5: Barbirolli: EMI
: Mitropolous: Arkadia
Symphony 6: Zander on IMP
: Horenstein: M&A (Coupled with a radiant

Bruckner 8th)
: Bernstein: DG
: Barbirolli: EMI
Symphony 7: Horenstein on M&A
Symphony 8: Solti on London
Symphony 9: Barbirolli on EMI
: Lopez-Cobos on Telarc
Symphony 10: Rattle on EMI
Das Lied von Erde: Horenstein on M&A

Don Patterson

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Jun 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/21/97

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John R. Wang wrote:
>
> Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?
>
> I have in mind:
>
> Czech Philharmonic Orchestra/Vaclav Neumann (Supraphon)
>
> Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Sir George Solti (London)
>

Neither. Bet Bernstein on DG. Infinitely more interesting in this
music.

> I'm slowly buying the cycle from the Polish National Radio Symphony
> Orchestra/Antoni Wit and Michael Halasz on Naxos, but Mahler 8 is
> missing.

Not a bad cycle from a conductor's standpoint, but the orchestra
simply can't match the power and color of the CSO, NYPO, VPO,
or the Concertgebouw. (Or a myriad of others for the matter.)

--
Don Patterson <don...@erols.com>
"The President's Own"
United States Marine Band

Concerned about the state of the Mac?
Visit: http://www.MacMarines.com

The views expressed are my own and in no way reflect
those of the U.S. Marine Band or the Marine Corps.

Doctor Gonzo

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Jun 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/21/97

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ryw...@ix.netcom.com(John R. Wang) wrote:

>Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?

The Doc will repeat his sage wisdom... even though the price may be
tempting, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a complete cycle of anything with
one artist or artist team!!! It's like putting on blinders... and
with Mahler, you'd definitely benefit from a variety of approaches.

Spend a little extra and try this:

1 - Tennstedt/CSO (EMI)
2 - Kaplan/LSO (Conifer)
3 - Horenstein/LSO (Unicorn)
4 - Szell/Cleveland (Sony)
5 - Barbirolli/New Philharmonia (EMI)
6 - Zander/Boston Phil (IMP)
7 - Horenstein/New Philharmonia (Music and Arts)
8 - Segerstam/Danish RSO (Chandos)
9 - Morris/Symphonica of London (IMP)
Das Lied - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter (Decca/London)

You won't be dissatisfied!
Doctor Gonzo

Fight spam now! Ask me how!

my email address is

Classical9

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Jun 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/22/97

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For me, the most consistently satisfying Mahler cycle is the Bernstein on
CBS, with miraculous performances of 3 and 6.

AVIKG

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Jun 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/22/97

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In article <19970622003...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
class...@aol.com (Classical9) writes:

>For me, the most consistently satisfying Mahler cycle is the Bernstein on
>CBS, with miraculous performances of 3 and 6.

I'LL, BUY THAT.

avik-gms

HalvardJ

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Jun 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/22/97

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>For me, the most consistently satisfying Mahler cycle is the Bernstein on
>CBS, with miraculous performances of 3 and 6.

Most miraculous, perhaps, is #3, which, as I recall, was
not only his first Mahler recording, but a record of his
first concert performances of Mahler (not that the recording
is a "live" one).

If I'm misremembering this, please correct me anyone.

Hal
Halvard Johnson, Baltimore, Maryland, USA

John Grabowski

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Jun 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/23/97

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In <5ogs7q$a...@camel1.mindspring.com> dr@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) writes:
>
>ryw...@ix.netcom.com(John R. Wang) wrote:
>
>>Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?
>
>The Doc will repeat his sage wisdom... even though the price may be
>tempting, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a complete cycle of anything with
>one artist or artist team!!! It's like putting on blinders... and
>with Mahler, you'd definitely benefit from a variety of approaches.
>
>Spend a little extra and try this:
>
>1 - Tennstedt/CSO (EMI)

Kubelik, DG

>2 - Kaplan/LSO (Conifer)

Rattle, EMI; Klemperer, EMI; Haitink, Philips if you want a shattering
ending

>3 - Horenstein/LSO (Unicorn)

Also Bernstein, NYPO, Sony

>4 - Szell/Cleveland Sony

Also Previn, Pittsburgh (believe it or not, EMI

>5 - Barbirolli/New Philharmonia (EMI)

Lenny, Vienna, DG

>6 - Zander/Boston Phil (IMP)

Barbirolli, Philharmonia, EMI; Szell, Cleveland, CBS; Horenstein,
Stockholm, Unicorn.

>7 - Horenstein/New Philharmonia (Music and Arts)
>8 - Segerstam/Danish RSO (Chandos)
>9 - Morris/Symphonica of London (IMP)

Walter, VPO, (1938) EMI; Horenstein, Music & Arts.

>Das Lied - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter (Decca/London)
>
>You won't be dissatisfied!

He might, but at least there were no Soltis on your list! :-)

John

Chloe Carter

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Jun 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/23/97

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In article <5ogs7q$a...@camel1.mindspring.com>, dr@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) writes:

>Das Lied - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter (Decca/London)
>
>You won't be dissatisfied!

>Doctor Gonzo

This is fine, except that the Walter/Ferrier/Patzak "Das Lied"
is not available in the USA. Perhaps you'd consider the
Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich as a viable alternative?

- Chloe

Epworth Intensive Care Unit

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Jun 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/23/97

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John R. Wang wrote:
>
> Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?
>

> I have in mind:
>
> Czech Philharmonic Orchestra/Vaclav Neumann (Supraphon)
>
> Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Sir George Solti (London)
>

> I'm slowly buying the cycle from the Polish National Radio Symphony
> Orchestra/Antoni Wit and Michael Halasz on Naxos, but Mahler 8 is
> missing.
>

> Eric

Don't bother. Though Bernstein on DG is good (and his CBS/NYPO
recordings sound great now), I would recommend one-by-one, starting with
any Jascha Horenstein (Unicorn) you can beg, borrow or steal. This can
be usefully supplemented by Klemperer 2 (EMI) and Barbirolli 5/6/9
(EMI).
Forget the DG drivel about von Karajan - Barbirolli had long before led
the BPO to Mahler.

Bruno

Doctor Gonzo

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97

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joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Grabowski) wrote:

>I wrote

>>You won't be dissatisfied!

>He might, but at least there were no Soltis on your list! :-)

Like I said, he won't be disappointed >;-)

Doctor Gonzo

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97

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qpc...@frontiernet.net (Chloe Carter) wrote:

>In article <5ogs7q$a...@camel1.mindspring.com>, dr@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) writes:

>>Das Lied - Ferrier/Patzak/Walter (Decca/London)
>>

>>You won't be dissatisfied!

>>Doctor Gonzo

>This is fine, except that the Walter/Ferrier/Patzak "Das Lied"
>is not available in the USA.

It's available at Tower Records here in NY and I've seen it in San
Francisco. And a little birdie tells me a well-known record club is
considering adding it to their catalogue...

MARK ADKINS

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97

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In a previous article, joh...@ix.netcom.com (John Grabowski) says:

>In <5ogs7q$a...@camel1.mindspring.com> dr@gonzo (Doctor Gonzo) writes:
>>
>>1 - Tennstedt/CSO (EMI)
>
>Kubelik, DG
>
>>2 - Kaplan/LSO (Conifer)
>
>Rattle, EMI; Klemperer, EMI; Haitink, Philips if you want a shattering
>ending

I've yet to hear anything which even approaches, for beauty, Claudio
Abbado's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic on DG (1989) of Mahler's
First. Since an adequate description already exists in the form of a
Gramophone review, I'll just quote from this because it goes directly
to the heart of the recording:

"A quite extraordinary pianopianissimo sets the scene here.
Every sound, every dynamic, adds to a heightened sense of
expectation. Abbado's nature-world is fragrant indeed. [The
Finale is] undeniably thrilling with Berlin horns & trumpets
respendently leading..."

I might add that this finale leaves one quite ready to join with
the wildly cheering audience whose presence is only noticeable after
the final bars have ended.

I would also like to recommend another Abbado recording for the
Second Symphony, this one with the Vienna Philharmonic on DG
(1992). The recording does not have the sublime refinement
of tone in its horn section which characterizes the recording of
the First described above, but in the strings and (particularly)
in the several choral and soloist/duo movements, there is a purity
and vividness which truly permits the emotions of the music to fully
express themselves. Not only did Studer and Meier and the Arnold
Schoenberg Choir give outstanding performances, but the listener is
able to appreciate every nuance of their professionalism because of
the clarity and accuracy of the recording. The balance of all three
(orchestra, singers, and choir) is superb. What a refreshing
change from some of those awful historical recordings some people
recommend (simply, I'm convinced, out of spite). There is as much
dynamism as you can handle and the serene vocal interludes are Heaven
on Earth. Contrary to what Derek Barker says on his Mahler Web page,
the finale is glorious. Also a live recording but you would never know
it from the ambience.

I have yet to hear Abbado's 8th, but if the performance and recorded
sound are anything like the 2nd I have much to look forward to.
Barker says the organ is insufficiently prominent for his taste
and blames this on the recording, but I'll have to wait and see
whether it isn't simply Abbado's direction (whether from the
podium or during the mixdown). Perhaps he is right to let the male
chorus predominate, or perhaps not, but either way it is probably yet
another nail in the coffin of the vapid "cookie-cutter" theory of
modern composers which the shriveled-up vampires who haunt r.m.c.r.
adhere to. I should be clear that this epithet does not (in this
instance) refer to either of the gentlemen quoted at the beginning of
this article.
--
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

Mark Adkins (eme...@aztec.asu.edu)

EJ Romans

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97

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No3 was recorded in about 1961 (or 60?)
Bernstein had certainly conducted the resurrection symphony
much earlier than this.
As for whether no3 was recorded 1st - maybe that was no4 (not sure about
this). Either way no3 is a great recording whereas his first no4 is not
that convincing. Neither is his 1st no5. Fortunately he recorded much
better versions of these for DG.

Ed

John Wilson

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Jun 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/24/97

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On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:42:53 +0100, EJ Romans <cab...@strath.ac.uk>
wrote:

Bernstein's Mahler 3 for CBS (Sony) appears to have been recorded all
in one day, April 3, 1961 in the Manhattan Center. As to his first
performance of the Resurrectrion I recall reading it was with the
orchestra he headed in NYC before he was at the NY Phil. Sorry, I
can't remember the name of the earlier orchestra but, I believe that
some of their recordings with Lenny have appeared on RCA they are
called Bernstein the Early Years.

John W.

Alain DAGHER

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Jun 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/25/97

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Don Patterson (*nospam*@erols.com) wrote:

: John R. Wang wrote:
: >
: > Any recommendations for a complete cycle of the mahler symphonies?
: >
: > I have in mind:
: >
: > Czech Philharmonic Orchestra/Vaclav Neumann (Supraphon)
: >
: > Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Sir George Solti (London)

: >

: Neither. Bet Bernstein on DG. Infinitely more interesting in this
: music.

Bernstein is not to everyone's taste. Sometimes I like him, sometimes
I don't. Ultimately, though, I hate sentimentality - and that was
Lenny's weakness.

But sometimes Bernstein comes up with shattering performances. For
example his digital recording (Philips) of Haydn's Mass in time of war
is one of the greatest Haydn recordings of all time. On the other
hand, he did a Creation at the same time that is hideous - syrupy,
ponderous, and overwrought.

I used to like his Mahler 1 with the Concertgebouw, but lately I've
been comapring it to Kubelik's. Not only is Kubelik more excting, and
crisper, he really captures that sense of tension and mystery in the
first movement; that fairy tale view of the forest as something both
miraculous and frightening. And then in the second movement's middle
section Bernstein gives in to his worst excesses of
sentimentality. Really bad.

--
Regards,
"De la musique avant toute chose"
Alain Dagher, M.D.
Montreal Neurological Institute -Paul Verlaine

Chloe Carter

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Jun 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/25/97

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In article <5onp30$j...@news.asu.edu>, eme...@aztec.asu.edu (MARK ADKINS)
writes:

>I would also like to recommend another Abbado recording for the
>Second Symphony, this one with the Vienna Philharmonic on DG
>(1992).
>

>I have yet to hear Abbado's 8th, but if the performance and recorded
>sound are anything like the 2nd I have much to look forward to.

>Mark Adkins (eme...@aztec.asu.edu)

Both of these are decent recordings, even if lacking in that last bit of
magic that one hopes for in performances of these works. The recorded
sound is typical of the DG '4D' process: big and powerful, with some
peculiar ambient effects from time to time. Those who insist on up-to-date
recorded sound will be satisfied.

A listener who doesn't plan to make a career out of sampling Mahler
recordings could certainly live with them happily.

- Chloe

Deryk Barker

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Jun 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/25/97

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John Wilson (j...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: On Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:42:53 +0100, EJ Romans <cab...@strath.ac.uk>
: wrote:

The Stadium Symphony? (I have the LP set but am not sure where it is
right now).

The real question is why are Sony still sitting on Lenny's 1960s NYPO
Resurrection and selling the appalingly-recorded Ely Cathedral LSo
recording instead?
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Across the pale parabola of Joy |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | Ralston McTodd |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | (Songs of Squalor). |

Jose Oscar Marques

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Jun 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/26/97

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On 22 Jun 1997 20:18:44 GMT halv...@aol.com (HalvardJ) wrote:

>Most miraculous, perhaps, is #3, which, as I recall, was

>not only his [Bernstein's] first Mahler recording, but a record of his

>first concert performances of Mahler (not that the recording
>is a "live" one).
>
>If I'm misremembering this, please correct me anyone.

Obligingly;

#1 (NYPO): Oct-4-1966 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#2 (NYPO): Sep-29,30-1963 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#3 (NYPO): Apr-3-1961 Manhattan Center, NY
#4 (NYPO): Feb-1-1960 St. George Hotel, NY
#5 (NYPO): Jan-7-1963 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#6 (NYPO): May-2,6-1967 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#7 (NYPO): Dec-14,15-1965 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#8 (LSO) : Apr-18,20-1966 Walthamstow Town Hall, London
LvE (VPO) : Mar-1966 Sophiensaal, Vienna
#9 (NYPO): Dec-16-1965 Philh. Hall, Lincoln Center, NY
#10 (VPO) : Oct-1974 Konzerthaus, Vienna (concert)

The first Mahler symphony recorded by Bernstein was indeed #4, as Mr.
Romans ventured earlier in this thread.

His first recording of the Resurrection, from 1963, is very good. As far
as know, it isn't available on CD (I have the old Columbia LP box).

--
Jose Oscar Marques
(to reply remove the X from my address)

JFMist

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Jun 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/27/97

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In article <5oslnh$5hv$1...@ccins.camosun.bc.ca>, dba...@ccins.camosun.bc.ca
(Deryk Barker) writes (re early Bernstein performances:):

>The Stadium Symphony? (I have the LP set but am not sure where it is
>right now).
>
>The real question is why are Sony still sitting on Lenny's 1960s NYPO
>Resurrection and selling the appalingly-recorded Ely Cathedral LSo
>recording instead?

To the best of my knowledge, the "New York Stadium Symphony" was a
pseudonym for the New York Philharmonic.It was used on Stokowski's Everest
recording of the Shostakovich 5th Symphony when the Philharmonic was under
exclusive contract to Columbia Records.
Prior to his Philharmonic years, Bernstein was the principal conductor of
the now defunct New York City Symphony Orchestra. He also conducted on
occaision the New York based Symphony of the Air which was formerly the
NBC Symphony Orchestra.
Regarding your other question, I have no answer except to say that it's
probably the same reason why they've kept the Fournier/Szell "Don Quixote"
out of the domestic catalogue.

J. Forman