Your favorite Last 6 Mozart Syms
ansermetniac
35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
*One of the greatest performances of anything perpetuated in wax
Abbedd
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ansermetniac wrote:
> mine
>
> 35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
> 36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
> 38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
> 39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
> 40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
> With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
> 41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
>
> *One of the greatest performances of anything perpetuated in wax
35. Szell/Cleveland
36. Walter/Columbia SO
38. No favorite.
39. Szell/Cleveland or Casals/MFO
40. Szell/Cleveland or Tintner/SNS
41. Reiner/CSO, Szell/Cleveland
ansermetniac
wrote:
>38. No favorite.
Is that because all the recordings you have are very good or mediocre
Spam Scone
ansermetniac wrote:
> On 23 Jun 2005 16:10:25 -0700, "Spam Scone" <Spam...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >38. No favorite.
>
> Is that because all the recordings you have are very good or mediocre
I don't particularly care for the work.
ansermetniac
wrote:
>
>
>ansermetniac wrote:
>> On 23 Jun 2005 16:10:25 -0700, "Spam Scone" <Spam...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >38. No favorite.
>>
>> Is that because all the recordings you have are very good or mediocre
>
>I don't particularly care for the work.
It is a lot of fun to play even with valveless horn parts
rkhalona
34. Schuricht/Dresden Phil; Maag/Padova
35. Fricsay, Szell
36. Walter, C. Kleiber, Muti/VPO
38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
39. Jochum/Bamberg, Casals
40. Walter, Giulini/Philharmonia, Casals
41. Fricsay, Szell, Kubelik/BRSO (live)
With all due respect, Toscanini was a terrible Mozart conductor.
RK
ansermetniac
wrote:
>It's a crime to leave No. 34 behind.
>
>34. Schuricht/Dresden Phil; Maag/Padova
Maag SRO is very good
>35. Fricsay, Szell
>36. Walter, C. Kleiber, Muti/VPO
>38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
>39. Jochum/Bamberg, Casals
>40. Walter, Giulini/Philharmonia, Casals
>41. Fricsay, Szell, Kubelik/BRSO (live)
>
>With all due respect, Toscanini was a terrible Mozart conductor.
Not always. his jupiter is terrible but the 2 I mentioned are
excellent.
Abbedd
>
>RK
david...@aol.com
As much as I love Mozart, for some reason the symphonies don't do as
much for me as the operas, quartets, quintets, or piano concertos (not
to mention the string trio divertimento, C minor Mass, Masonic Music,
etc.) I can see what tours de force the outer movements of the Jupiter
are but without really loving them. And I'm sick to death of the G
minor. The upshot of all this is that I'm not forever exploring new
performances.
Nevertheless, I'm rather attached to the Prague and the Linz. I
haven't really explored the options or so much as glanced at a
discography, but I actually own three recordings of the Linz that I
very much like:
Colin Davis [LSO?] (Philips)
Leonard Bernstein, VPO (Decca)
Barenboim, ECO (EMI)
Davis is all energy and enthusiasm if not terribly distinctive. (I
always have mixed feelings about such Davis performances, but I can't
help but like them.) Barenboim is at his youthful best, phrasing
subtly and distinctively in his relaxed and gentlemanly but far from
uninvolved way but with enough of the requisite energy to keep the
thing from dying on the vine. Bernstein is intense and vivid, not
exactly echt Mozartean in some sense, perhaps, but intensely musical.
There's one slight ritenuto in the exposition of the 1st mvmt that
really bugs me, but it's a small blot on a great canvas.
-david gable
ansermetniac
<david...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>As much as I love Mozart, for some reason the symphonies don't do as
>much for me as the operas, quartets, quintets, or piano concertos (not
>to mention the string trio divertimento, C minor Mass, Masonic Music,
Toscanini felt almost the sane way
Abbedd
>etc.) I can see what tours de force the outer movements of the Jupiter
>are but without really loving them. And I'm sick to death of the G
>minor. The upshot of all this is that I'm not forever exploring new
>performances.
>
>Nevertheless, I'm rather attached to the Prague and the Linz. I
>haven't really explored the options or so much as glanced at a
>discography, but I actually own three recordings of the Linz that I
>very much like:
>
>Colin Davis [LSO?] (Philips)
>Leonard Bernstein, VPO (Decca)
>Barenboim, ECO (EMI)
>
>Davis is all energy and enthusiasm if not terribly distinctive. (I
>always have mixed feelings about such Davis performances, but I can't
>help but like them.) Barenboim is at his youthful best, phrasing
>subtly and distinctively in his relaxed and gentlemanly but far from
>uninvolved way but with enough of the requisite energy to keep the
>thing from dying on the vine. Bernstein is intense and vivid, not
>exactly echt Mozartean in some sense, perhaps, but intensely musical.
>There's one slight ritenuto in the exposition of the 1st mvmt that
>really bugs me, but it's a small blot on a great canvas.
>
>-david gable
________________
Heck51
#36 - Reiner/CSO, Walter/ColSO
#38 - Solti/CSO
#39 - Walter/NYPO, Reiner/CSO Walter/ColSO
#40 - Walter/NYPO, Reiner/CSO, Szell/CO
#41 - Reiner/CSO, Szell/CO, Walter/NYPO, Solti/CSO
Vaneyes
38 & 39 - HvK (DG, analogue)
40 & 41 - Bernstein (DG)
Regards
benle...@yahoo.com
36 Marriner
38 Gardiner
39 Furtwangler
40 Reiner
41 Coates (sad that one has to go back to 1927 to find a recording like
this).
vinyl1
It seems like no one picked Britten.
As one great musician interpreting another, he has always seemed to me to
give the deepest and most musical performances of the Mozart symphonies.
Of the later symphonies, there is a Prague and Jupiter with Britten and the
ECO.
david...@aol.com
to
give the deepest and most musical performances of the Mozart
symphonies."
I picked up that Decca two-fer with Brittan conducting Mozart believing
that I couldn't possibly go wrong with a musician of Britten's stature
on the podium and as a fan of Britten's performances (at the piano) of
Schubert and (on the podium) of Schumann's Faust. I was extremely
disappointed by what I found to be routine and somewhat enervated
performances.
-david gable
James Ringland
35 Concerto Köln
36 Harnoncourt (I like Brüggen too.)
38 Brüggen O18c
39 Maier
40 Brüggen O18c + OAE
41 Immerseel (The new Pearlman is nice too)
Jim Ringland
Thornhill
36: Walter/Columbia
38: No favorite (though I do have a live recording of Szell/Cleveland
that aint bad at all).
39: Szell/Cleveland, Mackerras/Prague
40: Gardiner/EBS, Szell/Cleveland
41: Szell/Cleveland, Gardiner/EBS
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:rqhmb15802c79l71804cr9pesh24orgb30@
4ax.com:
> On 23 Jun 2005 16:33:21 -0700, "rkhalona" <rkha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It's a crime to leave No. 34 behind.
>>
>>34. Schuricht/Dresden Phil; Maag/Padova
>
> Maag SRO is very good
>>35. Fricsay, Szell
>>36. Walter, C. Kleiber, Muti/VPO
>>38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
>>39. Jochum/Bamberg, Casals
>>40. Walter, Giulini/Philharmonia, Casals
>>41. Fricsay, Szell, Kubelik/BRSO (live)
>>
>>With all due respect, Toscanini was a terrible Mozart conductor.
>
> Not always. his jupiter is terrible but the 2 I mentioned are excellent.
Yes, his Jupiter is overwrought, but some of his live performances are
quite special: the New York Philharmonic "Haffner," the violin-viola
Sinfonia Concertante, and the Salzburg _Zauberflöte_, for three.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Matthew B. Tepper
on Sony. The Cleveland Orchestra is, for my money, one of the best Mozart
big bands around, and I'm looking forward to finally hearing Dohnanyi, which
has sat in my new-release-to-be-listened-to line for several weeks now.
vinyl1
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119575524.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I picked up that Decca two-fer with Brittan conducting Mozart believing
> that I couldn't possibly go wrong with a musician of Britten's stature
> on the podium and as a fan of Britten's performances (at the piano) of
> Schubert and (on the podium) of Schumann's Faust. I was extremely
> disappointed by what I found to be routine and somewhat enervated
> performances.
>
> -david gable
>
I played one again just to check.....the Jupiter with the Serenata Notturna
on UK Decca SXL6372. Second issue, pressed around 1970.
What I hear is considerable rhythmic subtlety in the shaping of the
orchestral lines. He changes tempo only slightly, but fits his rhythm to
the meaning of the musical phrases. The transparency of the recording
doesn't hurt either.
It is not a blatantly outrageous performance, not wild like the Schubert
Arpeggione he did with Rostropovich. He shows a lot of respect for the
music, letting Mozart do the work. The accompanying Serenata Notturna is
considerably less statedly classical; he has a lot of fun cutting loose in
the last movement.
Perhaps the finer points of the performance didn't come through on the CD
you heard? I can see how a sloppy mastering could eviscerate much of the
beauty of this type of performance.
Paul Goldstein
>
>
><david...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1119575524.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I picked up that Decca two-fer with Brittan conducting Mozart believing
>> that I couldn't possibly go wrong with a musician of Britten's stature
>> on the podium and as a fan of Britten's performances (at the piano) of
>> Schubert and (on the podium) of Schumann's Faust. I was extremely
>> disappointed by what I found to be routine and somewhat enervated
>> performances.
>>
>> -david gable
>>
>
>I played one again just to check.....the Jupiter with the Serenata Notturna
>on UK Decca SXL6372. Second issue, pressed around 1970.
>
>What I hear is considerable rhythmic subtlety in the shaping of the
>orchestral lines. He changes tempo only slightly, but fits his rhythm to
>the meaning of the musical phrases. The transparency of the recording
>doesn't hurt either.
Isn't that the 40th? Britten did not record a studio 41. There is a superb
live one issued recently by Decca.
>It is not a blatantly outrageous performance, not wild like the Schubert
>Arpeggione he did with Rostropovich. He shows a lot of respect for the
>music, letting Mozart do the work. The accompanying Serenata Notturna is
>considerably less statedly classical; he has a lot of fun cutting loose in
>the last movement.
>
>Perhaps the finer points of the performance didn't come through on the CD
>you heard? I can see how a sloppy mastering could eviscerate much of the
>beauty of this type of performance.
The Britten 25/29/38/40 set on Decca twofer is one of my favorite recordings. I
think the 38 is better even than the Maag/LSO.
Vaneyes
vinyl1 wrote:
> ....not wild like the Schubert
> Arpeggione he did with Rostropovich.
Maybe some of that perception is owed to an over-miked piano and an
under-miked cello (Gordon Parry, Engineer). Too many of Rostropovich's
nuances fall flat.
Re urgency, their TT's 2' 23" slower than Maisky/Argerich.
For my money, on the London "The Classic Sound" series, an "Original
Remastered Recording" CD, the Bridge Sonata for Cello and Piano is more
successful in all respects.
Regards
George Murnu
news:plfmb196sthqcep9v...@4ax.com...
Klemperer / Philharmonia on Testament for #38, 39, and 41. Still searching
for the rest...
Regards,
George
Matthew Silverstein
> 38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
Definitely my favorite too!
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
Wow. It's easily my favorite Mozart symphony.
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
> 41 Coates (sad that one has to go back to 1927 to find a recording like
> this).
Pretty amazing, isn't it?
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
36 Brüggen, Kleiber
38 Maag/LSO, Harnoncourt/VCM (DVD)
39 Not sure
40 Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Brüggen/O18C+OAE
41 Immerseel
Matty
Mark
news:MPG.1d24fe406...@news.west.earthlink.net:
> A mostly HIP list:
>
> 35 Concerto Köln
They recorded this work? Do you happen to have the label and the CD number
for this recording?
Thanks in advance...
--
Mark
x = 123 in email address
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:1oep9c8es37ws.9fjh31q4hx37.dlg@
40tude.net:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2005, rkhalona wrote:
>
>> 38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
>
> Definitely my favorite too!
I'm trying to remember if I had that as a London Stereo Treasury LP back
when I was getting my first hearings of Mozart symphony recordings in the
early 1970s.
Johannes Roehl
Mine as well, not easily, though, as I do like #39 and #40 about as much.
I can't really name favorite perfomances, have too many, and not
listened to them in a while.
But Markevitch's #34 and 38 are very good and haven't been mentioned. I
also like Harnoncourt's idiosyncratic accounts, especially #38-40.
Johannes
Simon Roberts
>
>mine
>
>35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
>36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
>38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
>39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
>40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
> With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
>41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
Can't narrow it down to just one in some cases:
35 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
36 - Bruggen
38 - Maag/LSO, Harnoncourt/VCM (DVD only), Bruggen
39 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
40 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Bruggen II, Furtwaengler
41 - Immerseel, Casals, Krauss, Coates
Simon
Simon Roberts
david...@aol.com says...
My reaction too. The earlier and live performances issued by BBC and Decca are
better (if in worse sound).
Simon
Terry Marsh
> James Ringland <jtr...@mindspring.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1d24fe406...@news.west.earthlink.net:
>
>> A mostly HIP list:
>>
>> 35 Concerto Köln
>
> They recorded this work? Do you happen to have the label and the CD
> number for this recording?
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
Capriccio 67014; also with #29, bassoon concerto KV191 and Andante for
flute KV315.
Paul Goldstein
40 - Menuhin/Sinfonia Varsovia
41 - Bamert/London Mozart Players; Leibowitz/Royal PO; Leinsdorf/Boston SO;
Giulini/New Philharmonia
rkhalona
>> 38. Maag/LSO (no one else comes close)
> Definitely my favorite too!
I'm trying to remember if I had that as a London Stereo Treasury LP
back
when I was getting my first hearings of Mozart symphony recordings in
the
early 1970s.
--
Matthew B. Tepper>>
It was reissued on a London STS with symphony No. 32 (also a superb
recording, since
reissued on Decca Legends). Amazingly, the Prague recording remains
unreleased on CD
in the West (excepting a hissy release on Belart, which was available
for the blink of an eye).
I recommend the Japanese CD release, which includes the 32nd symphony
and the De Peyer/Maag
LSO recording of the clarinet concerto. A desert island disc if there
was ever one.
RK
jrs...@aol.com
david...@aol.com wrote:
> As much as I love Mozart, for some reason the symphonies don't do as
> much for me as the operas, quartets, quintets, or piano concertos (not
> to mention the string trio divertimento, C minor Mass, Masonic Music,
> etc.) I can see what tours de force the outer movements of the Jupiter
> are but without really loving them. And I'm sick to death of the G
> minor. The upshot of all this is that I'm not forever exploring new
> performances.
>
> Nevertheless, I'm rather attached to the Prague and the Linz. I
> haven't really explored the options or so much as glanced at a
> discography, but I actually own three recordings of the Linz that I
> very much like:
>
> Colin Davis [LSO?] (Philips)
> Leonard Bernstein, VPO (Decca)
> Barenboim, ECO (EMI)
>
> Davis is all energy and enthusiasm if not terribly distinctive. (I
> always have mixed feelings about such Davis performances, but I can't
> help but like them.) Barenboim is at his youthful best, phrasing
> subtly and distinctively in his relaxed and gentlemanly but far from
> uninvolved way but with enough of the requisite energy to keep the
> thing from dying on the vine. Bernstein is intense and vivid, not
> exactly echt Mozartean in some sense, perhaps, but intensely musical.
> There's one slight ritenuto in the exposition of the 1st mvmt that
> really bugs me, but it's a small blot on a great canvas.
I don't know how I feel about it now, but for a while Davis's Mozart
seemed so likeable that I felt like I had to have it all.
--Jeff
Simon Roberts
says...
Quite so. My introduction to 38 while a teenager was Bruno Walter's stereo
recording, which almost put me off the music for life. Not long after, on a
visit to the US, I stumbled a cross the Maag LP (it was not then in print in the
UK and I had never heard of it) and for some reason gave it a try - and became
an instant convert to both works. For my taste, no recording since of 32
(including his remake) is as good, while very few of 38 come close. How bizarre
that the Decca Legends disc should have contained, in addition to 32, all that
fluff rather than 38.
Simon
rkhalona
stereo
recording, which almost put me off the music for life. Not long after,
on a
visit to the US, I stumbled a cross the Maag LP (it was not then in
print in the
UK and I had never heard of it) and for some reason gave it a try - and
became
an instant convert to both works. For my taste, no recording since of
32
(including his remake) is as good, while very few of 38 come close.
How bizarre
that the Decca Legends disc should have contained, in addition to 32,
all that
fluff rather than 38.
Simon >>
The odd addition to that Decca Legends CD is the German Dances; all of
the other stuff, except
for the 32nd symphony, was part of another LP, which was quite
successful. I love the Thamos music
(I think Neville Marriner was the 1st or 2nd violin in the Serenata
Notturna).
Unfortunately, even leaving the German Dances out, they couldn't quite
fit the two LPs onto a single
CD, but I agree that the Prague should have been a higher priority. I
think Decca (or Testament)
should release Maag's recording of the Prague with his recording of the
28th symphony with La Suisse
Romande, which would complete all the Mozart symphony recordings he did
for Decca.
RK
Bob Harper
recordings of anything, ever, should remain unavailable, or at least
extremely difficult to find (speaking of which, do you have a catalog
number for the Japanese CD, Ramon?)
Bob Harper
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:RJKdnYnhVPL...@comcast.com:
Sometimes I wonder if there's anybody actually in charge at Universal Music,
or if you'd open the office door and have to throw in a bushel of bananas
lest the workers begin to go "Eep! eep!" and hurl their feces at you.
rkhalona
<<(speaking of which, do you have a catalog
number for the Japanese CD, Ramon?) >>
Hmmm. A search of hmv.co.jp didn't pull the CD (which can mean that
it's already OOP and may be due to re-release). I'll post the catalog
number
when I get home.
RK
ansermetniac
On behalf of the organization to prevent the defemation of primates, I
object to the comparison
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
rkhalona
The catalog number is Decca POCL-9787 (from an old post in the group).
A search of amazon and tower japan yielded zilch. It's definitely OOP.
RK
Dave Cook
> 35 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
> 36 - Bruggen
> 38 - Maag/LSO, Harnoncourt/VCM (DVD only), Bruggen
> 39 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
> 40 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Bruggen II, Furtwaengler
> 41 - Immerseel, Casals, Krauss, Coates
What's the best source for this Furtwängler recording?
Is the Maag a Decca recording? In print?
Thanks,
Dave Cook
A. Brain
news:1119571370.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> As much as I love Mozart, for some reason the symphonies don't do as
> much for me as the operas, quartets, quintets, or piano concertos (not
> to mention the string trio divertimento, C minor Mass, Masonic Music,
> etc.) I can see what tours de force the outer movements of the
> Jupiter
> are but without really loving them. And I'm sick to death of the G
> minor. The upshot of all this is that I'm not forever exploring new
> performances.
I'm very far from being the expert in music that David is, but as
a music lover, I agree with him on the merits of the symphonies
as compared with the other works cited. There's a lot of
neglected Mozart out there too. The concert arias, for example,
and many of the sacred works, such as the Vespers, K. 339
and the earlier K. 321.
Every time I hear one of the operas, I have new experiences.
Not so with the symphonies.
I like the Szell versions of the Mozart symphonies on Sony (especially
28 and 39), but when I want to hear symphonic works from the "classical"
period, I turn to Haydn.
It seems to me that I had some good EMI recordings by Barenboim
on LP from the early '70s with ECO. I guess they never made it to CD.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Bob Harper
Thanks for the number anyway. Maybe it'll come out again. Maybe it'll
even appear here in the US (remember, I believe in miracles:)
Bob Harper
Bob Harper
Divertimento K.205 and 2 Marches, K.335. EMI CZS 7 67301 2. No idea
whether it's still available.
Bob Harper
rkhalona
Thanks for the number anyway. Maybe it'll come out again. Maybe it'll
even appear here in the US (remember, I believe in miracles:)
Bob Harper >>
It will be reissued, I am sure. I am just hoping they couple it with
the 28th symphony,
which would make the most sense
Simon Roberts
>
>On 2005-06-24, Simon Roberts <sd...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> 35 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
>> 36 - Bruggen
>> 38 - Maag/LSO, Harnoncourt/VCM (DVD only), Bruggen
>> 39 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
>> 40 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Bruggen II, Furtwaengler
>> 41 - Immerseel, Casals, Krauss, Coates
>
>What's the best source for this Furtwängler recording?
Don't know - I have it on EMI and haven't made extensive comparisons with other
transfers.
>Is the Maag a Decca recording? In print?
See Ramon's posts earlier; in brief, the answers are yes, and no, respectively.
Simon
Paul Kintzele
> Klemperer / Philharmonia on Testament for #38, 39, and 41. Still searching
> for the rest...
I got this disc based on positive notices here and was rather
disappointed (I've had this experience often with Klemperer recordings).
It's good, but nothing spectacular. But the flute, my goodness. In 38
it is so piercingly loud as to spoil the whole affair for me. I know
Klemperer liked prominent woodwinds, but this is ridiculous. It's as
though the orchestra were recorded with a microphone placed directly
over the flute; very annoying, except perhaps for flutists.
My list at the moment:
35: Brown/ASMF (Haenssler)
36: Kleiber/VPO (Philips DVD; an astonishing performance)
38 & 39: Pinnock/EC (Archiv) (but really want to hear the Maag/LSO in
38; I really love that combo in Mendelssohn 3)
40 & 41: Levine/CSO (RCA) (had Szell for a long time and thought I
needed no other, but these have more zing; only drawback is the observed
repeats in the slow movements)
I'm on the brink of getting the Bernstein/Vienna 35-41, based on my
enthusiasm for the recently reissued Beethoven set. Are these Mozart
performances similar in profile?
Paul
Dave Cook
>>> 40 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Bruggen II, Furtwaengler
>>What's the best source for this Furtwängler recording?
> Don't know - I have it on EMI and haven't made extensive comparisons with
> other transfers.
Thanks. Looks like it's on this set:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=60852
Dave Cook
Paul Kintzele
> (but really want to hear the Maag/LSO in
> 38; I really love that combo in Mendelssohn 3)
Ack. My positive expectation was actually a positive memory. Due to
the kindness of someone here, I already have the Maag/LSO. I'm
listening to it right now, and it is indeed excellent.
Paul
Johannes Roehl
> In article <slrndbovoq....@localhost.localdomain>, Dave Cook says...
>
>>On 2005-06-24, Simon Roberts <sd...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>38 - Maag/LSO, Harnoncourt/VCM (DVD only), Bruggen
What are the differences between this DVD and the Studio recording of
Harnocourt's with the Concertgebouw (apart from the orchestra of course)?
>>>39 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw
>>>40 - Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw, Bruggen II, Furtwaengler
>>>41 - Immerseel, Casals, Krauss, Coates
>>
>>What's the best source for this Furtwängler recording?
>
>
> Don't know - I have it on EMI and haven't made extensive comparisons with other
> transfers.
FWIW I had two different EMI issues, one on an late 80ties/early 90ties
"Reference" disc and one on a newer 3-disc-box "Furtwängler in Vienna,
with some akronymical sound improvement. They sounded slightly
different, but I couldn't decide which was better.
Sound is IMO decent for about 1950 mono, certainly listenable. My
quibble, but in a way that also makes it interesting, is that
Furtwängler uses the no-clarinets-version, something I'd rather expect
from Hogwood.
Johannes
Simon Roberts
>
>FWIW I had two different EMI issues, one on an late 80ties/early 90ties
>"Reference" disc and one on a newer 3-disc-box "Furtwängler in Vienna,
>with some akronymical sound improvement. They sounded slightly
>different, but I couldn't decide which was better.
>Sound is IMO decent for about 1950 mono, certainly listenable. My
>quibble, but in a way that also makes it interesting, is that
>Furtwängler uses the no-clarinets-version, something I'd rather expect
>from Hogwood.
... who gave us both versions. Thanks for the transfer comparison.
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>35: Brown/ASMF (Haenssler)
>36: Kleiber/VPO (Philips DVD; an astonishing performance)
>38 & 39: Pinnock/EC (Archiv) (but really want to hear the Maag/LSO in
>38; I really love that combo in Mendelssohn 3)
>40 & 41: Levine/CSO (RCA) (had Szell for a long time and thought I
>needed no other, but these have more zing; only drawback is the observed
>repeats in the slow movements)
>
>I'm on the brink of getting the Bernstein/Vienna 35-41, based on my
>enthusiasm for the recently reissued Beethoven set. Are these Mozart
>performances similar in profile?
I don't think so - rather smoother, blander, safer, as one might expect since
they came after the Beethoven. I found them disappointing both when they were
first issued and when, after so many around here were expressing such
enthusiasm, I bought them again in that Trio box; I easily prefer all the
performances on your list to any of the Bernstein/DG. I may be the only person
alive who prefers his earlier Mozart symphony performances with the NYPO.
Simon
Richard Schultz
I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Heck51
symphony performances with the NYPO."
I haven't heard the eariler Mozart recordings, but in virtually every
case, I prefer Bernstein's NYPO recordings to his later VPO ones...
jony...@earthlink.net
> > much for me as the operas, quartets, quintets, or piano concertos (not
> > to mention the string trio divertimento, C minor Mass, Masonic Music,
> > etc.) I can see what tours de force the outer movements of the
> > Jupiter
> > are but without really loving them. And I'm sick to death of the G
> > minor. The upshot of all this is that I'm not forever exploring new
> > performances.
Me neither -- and I thoght I was the only one who felt this way. Thank
God I'm not the Lone Ranger on this one. But this thread has given me
some food for thought (more below).
> Every time I hear one of the operas, I have new experiences.
> Not so with the symphonies.
My feelings about the middle and late piano concertos -- there's always
something new, profoundly moving or utterly delightful. The symphonies
usually are just ... there.
> I like the Szell versions of the Mozart symphonies on Sony (especially
> 28 and 39), but when I want to hear symphonic works from the "classical"
> period, I turn to Haydn.
Same here more and more about Haydn -- Beecham's complete London
symphonies and Szell's early Londons. Szell's Mozart 39 & 39 are still
my favorites though. For the Linz it's a toss-up between Walter's
(bouncing back and forth between lovingly warm and sloppily gooey) and
Bernstein/VPO (Decca). No favorites for the last two. I hve Bohm/VPO,
which alernate between seeming extremely profound and extremely boring,
depending on when I'm listening.
Thanks to everyone on this thread, though, I'll seek out Ansermet's
Prague (available through Haydn House) and Furtwangler's 40, plus that
Barenboim set mentioned below.
> It seems to me that I had some good EMI recordings by Barenboim
> on LP from the early '70s with ECO. I guess they never made it to CD.
They did and, come payday next week, I'm getting it. (-:
Thanks again!
jy
Paul Kintzele
> In article <EbednUzn_oW...@comcast.com>, Paul Kintzele says...
>>
>>I'm on the brink of getting the Bernstein/Vienna 35-41, based on my
>>enthusiasm for the recently reissued Beethoven set. Are these Mozart
>>performances similar in profile?
>
> I don't think so - rather smoother, blander, safer, as one might expect since
> they came after the Beethoven. I found them disappointing both when they were
> first issued and when, after so many around here were expressing such
> enthusiasm, I bought them again in that Trio box; I easily prefer all the
> performances on your list to any of the Bernstein/DG. I may be the only person
> alive who prefers his earlier Mozart symphony performances with the NYPO.
Thanks for that response; very helpful. I was listening to some clips
online and as far as I can tell it sounds like Bernstein--surprisingly--
doesn't really relish the wonderful off-beat timpani shots in 35/iv.
Paul
jrs...@aol.com
Richard Schultz wrote:
> I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
Yeah, but let's skip 37.
I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
* Beecham (BBC), especially his deeply affectionate second movement,
and even though the the rest is unfortunately sloppier than the
recordings of the other four greats below.
* Maderna (Arkadia) (as steady a hand with the big line as Klemperer
and Horenstein, but pervaded with an overwhelming generosity of spirit
and richness of inflection)
* Schuricht (EMI) (almost equal to Beecham's romantic ardour and elan
in the second movement, with better playing overall)
* Horenstein (Vox) (Does anyone build each outer movement more
impressively and inexorably into a big climax?)
* Walter/VPO (DG) (C'mon...does anyone else achieve such an incredibly
creepy, disturbingly dark opening? Or the ardent waves upon waves of
yearning in the Allegro that follows? Or the intimacy of his slow
movement? This is *ideal* Mozart, perhaps the greatest Mozart symphony
performance on disc: if people think that Mozart was at his best in the
opera or the piano concerti (and he was!), let them hear how Walter
turns the Andante into a contemplation worthy of Le Nozze, a passionate
dialog worthy of Cosi; let them hear the VPO cellos and timps damn Don
Giovanni to hell in the final Presto.)
Near the top I would also point out:
Talich (Multisonic)
Sejna (thanks Otterhouse!)
Kubelik (Denon)
Kubelik (EMI)
Klemperer (EMI)
Ancerl (Berlin Classics)
I was surprised to see these, my favorites, completely ignored (though
George Munru wisely nominated the earlier Klemperer on Testament, and
Thornhill has a Szell I'd love to hear). That's 11 choices passed over
entirely.
Even if Maag is good, I doubt he can best all of these at once.
Anyway, this symphony seems particularly blessed on record (heck,
someone even bravely voted for Solti, which got miserably and memorably
panned on "Music at First Hearing", if anyone remembers that
particularly embarrassing episode of the show!). All those votes for
one recording: it seems suspiciously like groupthink. I am prepared to
eat my words about Maag, but feel confident he is, at best, only one of
the best half dozen, nothing more.
--Jeff
Richard Schultz
: I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
: Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
: Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
: Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
: my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
: he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
Have you ever heard the Maag/Tuckwell/LSO recording of the Mozart horn
concertos? Worth the price of admission just for the recording of the
unfinished one. . .
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
jrs...@aol.com
Richard Schultz wrote:
> In article <1119857910....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jrs...@aol.com wrote:
>
> : I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
> : Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
> : Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
> : Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
> : my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
> : he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
>
> Have you ever heard the Maag/Tuckwell/LSO recording of the Mozart horn
> concertos? Worth the price of admission just for the recording of the
> unfinished one. . .
>
It's all so fuzzy in my memory: I bought a few Maag Mozart discs on lp
at a library sale a while back and sampled them but I don't remember
which ones because I didn't keep them. I'll add that Tuckwell to the
list. Tuckwell's an interesting player, on his own.
--Jeff
Alan Cooper
>Tuckwell's an interesting player, on his own.
In the vast repertoire for unaccompanied horn? ;-)
AC
jrs...@aol.com
More probably selective hearing: my internal mixing board must have
silenced the non-Tuckwell channels. :(
--Jeff
rkhalona
Let me know if you have any trouble locating a copy of the Maag
"Prague".
It would be my pleasure to let you hear it.
Regarding Solti, he did make an excellent recording of this symphony
with
the LSO. It was one of those late mono Decca LPs, which I have
transferred from
a London Stereo Treasury series reissue (the coupling was a very
energetic Little G minor
[No. 25]).
Regarding the Tuckwell/Maag horn concerto fragment, I don't think it
has been reissued
on CD, although the recordings of all four horn concerti have seen
several CD incarnations,
most notably in the Decca 2-fer series, which includes all of Mozart's
wind concerti.
RK
Paul Goldstein
jrs...@aol.com says...
>I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
>Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
>Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
>Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
>my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
>he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
>
>* Beecham (BBC), especially his deeply affectionate second movement,
>and even though the the rest is unfortunately sloppier than the
>recordings of the other four greats below.
>* Maderna (Arkadia) (as steady a hand with the big line as Klemperer
>and Horenstein, but pervaded with an overwhelming generosity of spirit
>and richness of inflection)
>* Schuricht (EMI) (almost equal to Beecham's romantic ardour and elan
>in the second movement, with better playing overall)
>* Horenstein (Vox) (Does anyone build each outer movement more
>impressively and inexorably into a big climax?)
Maag, Britten, Gardiner, and James Levine are far more successful in this regard
than Horenstein.
>* Walter/VPO (DG) (C'mon...does anyone else achieve such an incredibly
>creepy, disturbingly dark opening? Or the ardent waves upon waves of
>yearning in the Allegro that follows? Or the intimacy of his slow
>movement? This is *ideal* Mozart, perhaps the greatest Mozart symphony
>performance on disc: if people think that Mozart was at his best in the
>opera or the piano concerti (and he was!), let them hear how Walter
>turns the Andante into a contemplation worthy of Le Nozze, a passionate
>dialog worthy of Cosi; let them hear the VPO cellos and timps damn Don
>Giovanni to hell in the final Presto.)
[snip]
>Even if Maag is good, I doubt he can best all of these at once.
In addition to being a great performance, the Maag/LSO is one of the best
examples of that magical early-stereo Decca sound. Listening to the recording
gives me a visceral pleasure that very few if any of your alternatives can
provide. (The same is true of the one I prefer even to Maag, Britten/ECO.)
jrs...@aol.com
rkhalona wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> Let me know if you have any trouble locating a copy of the Maag
> "Prague".
> It would be my pleasure to let you hear it.
>
Thanks! I don't expect finding this to be a problem, however.
> Regarding Solti, he did make an excellent recording of this symphony
> with
> the LSO. It was one of those late mono Decca LPs, which I have
> transferred from
> a London Stereo Treasury series reissue (the coupling was a very
> energetic Little G minor
> [No. 25]).
The Mozart issued by the CSO is quite decent. The later "Prague" on
Decca digital lp, however, had that blinding glare we are so sensitive
to. The conducting was not necessarily the weak link, though it seemed
peculiar. I have not heard the CD reissues.
--Jeff
rkhalona
<<
> Let me know if you have any trouble locating a copy of the Maag
> "Prague".
> It would be my pleasure to let you hear it.
Thanks! I don't expect finding this to be a problem, however. >>
:-) :-)
RK
david...@aol.com
Jeff,
I must admit that my experience with Maag has paralleled yours. I
quite like Maag's performances of Mozart's Masonic music on Vox, most
of which are appropriately fervent, although even there, I could
imagine even better conducting of some pieces. I also know Maag's
Decca recording of Verdi's Luisa Miller. Although I haven't heard it
for ages, I do know that I prefer Fausto Cleva's on RCA. I very often
find Mr. Khalona's views of conductors persuasive, and his enthusiasm
for Maag has been enough for me to seek out further Maag performances
of pieces that interest me. Nevertheless, while Maag does conduct with
some distinction, I can't claim to have been overwhelmed by any single
Maag performance I've ever heard.
-david gable
Simon Roberts
>
>In article <1119857910....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>jrs...@aol.com wrote:
>
>: I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
>: Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
>: Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
>: Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
>: my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
>: he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
>
>Have you ever heard the Maag/Tuckwell/LSO recording of the Mozart horn
>concertos? Worth the price of admission just for the recording of the
>unfinished one. . .
There's a singularly unfortunate Double Decca which contains several Mozart
concertos with LSO/Maag, the rest with Dohnanyi/Cleveland; the difference - not
just the conducting but the expressive orchestral playing and even the recorded
sound - is remarkable if unsurprising.
Simon
Simon Roberts
jrs...@aol.com says...
>
>
>Richard Schultz wrote:
>> I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
>
>Yeah, but let's skip 37.
>
>I am impressed and disturbed by how many people picked Maag for the
>Prague (#38). I have a few good Maag recordings, but not that one.
>Though I have heard some of his Mozart, I admit nothing I've heard of
>Maag indicates he is capable of creating such a rare consensus. I'll do
>my part and try it out, but I admit I will be pleasantly surprised if
>he's as good as the very best, i.e.:
[snip]
I think he's better than all those you list, though I like some of them quite a
lot (especially Schuricht and Klemperer/Testament; the only one on your list
I've not heard is Sejna's). (I also prefer Bruggen and Harnoncourt/VCM to any
of those.) Which merely suggests that we listen to/for different things in this
music. Aside from the superb recorded sound, one thing that Maag gives us
(perhaps for the first and only time before the HIPsters took it on) in addition
to his other virtues is excellent attaention to orchestral details (more so than
in his famous Mendelssohn discs) which strike me as important but which are
often glossed over by others, especially in older recordings, starting with the
crisp, clear, strong but not obtrusive timpani and brass. This isn't just a
matter of orchestral colour either; for instance, there are several places in
the outer movements where trumpets and horns answer each other, but in all too
many recordings/performances you hear one but not the other or neither (true,
some HIP performances bring them out even better, but still). Most of the older
recordings (e.g. Beecham) lavish attention on the first violins, at times
providng phrasing that has considerable panache, but seem to consign the rest to
an accompanying role. Anyway, presumably you will get to hear for yourself
whether we're full of it....
Simon
alanwa...@aol.com
I cannot say, nor can anyone I would say, that this is the "best"
Mozart 38 but his recording with the Orchestra di Padova e del Veneto
is very interesting to me and I would have very much relished the
opportunity to play on it.
Why? Well, whatever the criticisms of Mr Maag one thing he was
brilliant at was "balance" in an orchestra and whether people like it
or not that is what you get with the No 38 in "A tribute to Peter Maag"
- whether you like the result or not everyone is dynamically in their
place, no one overwhelms anyone (and do any of you notice how much of
the rhythm of Overture: Figaro is in that first movement?)
I also believe that for best effect, Mozart sometimes requires warmth
in the strings, not some of the weedy sound I have heard on such HIP
recordings/performances that I know and that I think Mr Maag and his
players achieve that without falling into the "romantic."
The crisp, clear strong timpani you refer to were almost certainly
provided on the Padova recording by Alberto Macchini who manages to be
crisp, clear and strong without murdering this wonderful instrument, as
so many do today in the "cause" of HIP (so far as I have encountered,
anyway: aka find the hardest sticks you can lay hands on and hit it as
hard as you can, sometimes ridiculously on a synthetic plastic
head....you know who you are)
Whether anyone likes the result or not, and that will be a matter of
opinion, what stands out to me about Mr Maag is balance. I three times
played 38 for Mr Maag in Prague in the place where the second
performance of this work was given and remember them as much like the
Padova recording.
All I can say is that he was a thrilling and interesting interpreter of
the symphony 38, not that he was the best. Just as Smetacek was a
thrilling and interesting interpreter of St Ludmila (and Beethoven
piano concertos), Krombholc of Ma Vlast, Turnovsky of Martinu
symphonies, Benzi in Bizet, Pedrotti and Woldike in Haydn late
symphonies.
Not necessarily the "best" but thrilling in their way.
Anyway, all did something a bit different with it, whether you like the
result (s) or not.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
jrs...@aol.com
Paul Goldstein wrote:
> In article <1119857910....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> jrs...@aol.com says...
> >* Horenstein (Vox) (Does anyone build each outer movement more
> >impressively and inexorably into a big climax?)
>
> Maag, Britten, Gardiner, and James Levine are far more successful in this regard
> than Horenstein.
>
I'm all ears, especially since Levine and Britten have been two of my
favorite Mozarteans in other instances (Gardiner suffices in the
operas, but just barely and only because the casts interest me; I
tossed his symphonies because he didn't understand the phrasing). In
the Horenstein recording I am most impressed with the way the sound
accrues more weight as the movement goes--Horenstein seems particularly
interested in building the darker end of the spectrum gradually.
Furthermore, on a smaller scale, the phrases are sustained and lean
into one another--by weight and attack and dynamics. These are subtle
effects, and Horenstein's control of pacing and steady hand is really
important too--there's barely a moment to breathe in his long arc, but
that "barely" makes all the difference. I don't know anyone who does
these aspects better in this way. He really knows exactly where the
emphasis goes every phrase, and he never overdoes it. As you know, the
Walter is completely different. If you've ever swung a golf club or hit
a tennis ball, you know exactly how any minute emphasis can louse it
up, but how there has to be just the right cumulation of energy at
exactly the right point. Horenstein is the Ben Hogan of conducting. Is
this what you perceive Levine and the others do so much better?
>
> In addition to being a great performance, the Maag/LSO is one of the best
> examples of that magical early-stereo Decca sound. Listening to the recording
> gives me a visceral pleasure that very few if any of your alternatives can
> provide. (The same is true of the one I prefer even to Maag, Britten/ECO.)
I'm looking forward to the sound, if Simon's description is apt. I have
to admit liking the Maag Mendelssohn on Decca for similar reasons,
though there he yields to others, such as Munch and Mitropoulos, when
it comes to realizing the music.
I certainly can get into visceral pleasure. But in comparing various
recordings of this symphony, Walter, Maderna, and the others awoke in
me an overwhelming joy of music, life, and Mozart. This is undeniably
visceral pleasure for me, if not for you.
I have no trouble imagining a better clarity of a dialog of trumpet and
horns, for instance, but I've heard such things a million times in
concert without much more than bemusement. Important to the music, yes,
and indeed visceral. Such stuff is fun but really doesn't make me jump
out of chair with wide-eyed astonishment and effusive smile. That kind
of profoundly visceral experience instead is triggered by hearing a
sequence of pitches turned into an invisible line as polished and
sensitive and seemingly pliable as the surface of a Brancusi or
Michelangelo sculpture.
--Jeff
Paul Goldstein
jrs...@aol.com says...
Hmm... I will have to listen again to the Horenstein, which did not impress me
the way it does you.
Simon Roberts
alanwa...@aol.com says...
>I cannot say, nor can anyone I would say, that this is the "best"
>Mozart 38 but his recording with the Orchestra di Padova e del Veneto
>is very interesting to me and I would have very much relished the
>opportunity to play on it.
>
>Why? Well, whatever the criticisms of Mr Maag one thing he was
>brilliant at was "balance" in an orchestra and whether people like it
>or not that is what you get with the No 38 in "A tribute to Peter Maag"
>- whether you like the result or not everyone is dynamically in their
>place, no one overwhelms anyone (and do any of you notice how much of
>the rhythm of Overture: Figaro is in that first movement?)
>
>I also believe that for best effect, Mozart sometimes requires warmth
>in the strings, not some of the weedy sound I have heard on such HIP
>recordings/performances that I know and that I think Mr Maag and his
>players achieve that without falling into the "romantic."
>
>The crisp, clear strong timpani you refer to were almost certainly
>provided on the Padova recording by Alberto Macchini who manages to be
>crisp, clear and strong without murdering this wonderful instrument, as
>so many do today in the "cause" of HIP (so far as I have encountered,
>anyway: aka find the hardest sticks you can lay hands on and hit it as
>hard as you can, sometimes ridiculously on a synthetic plastic
>head....you know who you are)
Ummm. I (and the rest of us) was referring to the Decca recording, so the
player was whoever was in the LSO c. 1959. The recording you're referring to is
quite different in many ways, ranging from sonority (e.g. much more prominent,
warmer-toned horns) to phrasing (Harnoncourt-esque aggressive legato in i).
Simon
jrs...@aol.com
Comparing the recent Padova recordings to some of his earlier Decca
recordings, brings to mind the adage, "They don't Maag 'em like they
used to."
Still, I see some virtues in his later work. I almost yielded to
Ramon's admonitions about the Beethoven and bought the whole darn set a
week ago. At the very least, I'd like to hear Podles sing Gluck.
--Jeff
alanwa...@aol.com
rkhalona
You don't have to apologize. Your digressions are welcome!
RK
jrs...@aol.com
You were Maagnifying our understanding of the conductor. Point well
taken!
--Jeff
Simon Roberts
alanwa...@aol.com says...
>
>I apologise. Sorry to have intruded.
Not sure why, since no-one complained that you had "intruded". I read your
remarks as confusing two different recordings. If I thereby misread your
comments, apologies for that.
Simon
Brendan R. Wehrung
(jrs...@aol.com) writes:
> Richard Schultz wrote:
>> I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
>
> Yeah, but let's skip 37.
>
Why? It's a fine work, if not more than a few bars of Mozart.
Anybody else got a fabulous fake or misatribulation that you'd like to put
on the same disc up to about 78 min. playing time. Of lesser quality is
the "Beethoven" Jena symphony for instance. This is a rich period, folks.
Brendan
--
Richard Schultz
:> >Tuckwell's an interesting player, on his own.
:> In the vast repertoire for unaccompanied horn? ;-)
: More probably selective hearing: my internal mixing board must have
: silenced the non-Tuckwell channels. :(
Or you were thinking of the recording of the unfinished concerto, where
the solo instrument continues for a few bars after the orchestra stops.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:d9qko8$bnv$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca:
> (jrs...@aol.com) writes:
>> Richard Schultz wrote:
>>
>>> I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
>>
>> Yeah, but let's skip 37.
>
> Why? It's a fine work, if not more than a few bars of Mozart.
> Anybody else got a fabulous fake or misatribulation that you'd like to
> put on the same disc up to about 78 min. playing time. Of lesser quality
> is the "Beethoven" Jena symphony for instance. This is a rich period,
> folks.
How about the "Ovsianiko-Kulikovsky" Symphony?
Years ago (back in the 1970s) I heard there was a composer (ostensibly a very
well-known American, according to the person who told me) whose wife loved to
play four-hand reductions of Haydn symphonies with him, and so he worked in
private (as Wagner had with the Siegfried Idyll) and produced a pastiche work
in Haydn's style. Anybody know what I'm talking about? (Does anyone ever?)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
Spam Scone
Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
> (jrs...@aol.com) writes:
> > Richard Schultz wrote:
> >> I'd have to go with #35 through #41.
> >
> > Yeah, but let's skip 37.
> >
>
> Why? It's a fine work, if not more than a few bars of Mozart.
> Anybody else got a fabulous fake or misatribulation that you'd like to put
> on the same disc up to about 78 min. playing time. Of lesser quality is
> the "Beethoven" Jena symphony for instance. This is a rich period, folks.
>
> Brendan
Isn't the "Haydn" Oboe Concerto considered to be spurious? And has the
dust settled from the controversy about the authenticity of Mozart's K.
297b?
jony...@earthlink.net
> Near the top I would also point out:
> Talich (Multisonic)
> Sejna (thanks Otterhouse!)
> Kubelik (Denon)
> Kubelik (EMI)
> Klemperer (EMI)
> Ancerl (Berlin Classics)
Have youo (or has anyone else) heard Ancerl's36 & 38 (Berlin
Cllassics)?
jy
Richard Schultz
: Anybody else got a fabulous fake or misatribulation that you'd like to put
: on the same disc up to about 78 min. playing time.
I have this feeling that some of the Kraus symphonies in the Naxos series
are misatried and misatribulated.
I can also think of a couple of virtuousos who attributed their
salon-type encores to others: Kreisler to a lot of different people,
and Josef Hofmann to a mysterious retiring composer named "Dvorsky."
Simon Roberts
jony...@earthlink.net says...
Ummm... Look at the last entry on the list above.
Simon
jony...@earthlink.net
Brain fart on my part, Simon. I'd equated the placement of the names
on this list with the Mozart symphonies being discussed -- Talich for
35, Senja for the Linz, and so on -- so I thought Ancerl was being
mentioned for the "Jupiter," not for his Mozart in general.
Will definjitely check out Ancerl's Mozart. His Dvorak in incredible.
Thanks,
jy
jrs...@aol.com
I think you'll like it. It's not all that much different than Talich's
Prague symphony, but one particularly remarkable feature is the
opening. Ancerl really lets the bass notes sustain with intensity, so
each phrase has this lingering, menacing quality. Quite effective.
Also--a gesture to those who like their bugles and drums--the timpani
are rather strong in this performance. Not overbearing, but hard to
ignore. The rest is exciting and fastidious as one would expect of
Ancerl.
--Jeff
jony...@earthlink.net
> Near the top I would also point out:
> Talich (Multisonic)
> Sejna (thanks Otterhouse!)
> Kubelik (Denon)
> Kubelik (EMI)
> Klemperer (EMI)
> Ancerl (Berlin Classics)
Thanks for mentioning Kubelik. My local library has him conducting the
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra in Prague/39 and 40/41. Prague and
40 are both marvelous -- unfailingly elegant yet passionate and
dramatic. Jupiter and 39 seemed to lack energy compared to Prague and
40, and especially compared to Szell in 39 (then again, who wouldn't
lack energy compared to Szell?), but for Prague and 40 alone, the
recordings are worth it.
Thanks again,
jy
jony...@earthlink.net
> Prague symphony, but one particularly remarkable feature is the
> opening. Ancerl really lets the bass notes sustain with intensity, so
> each phrase has this lingering, menacing quality. Quite effective.
> Also--a gesture to those who like their bugles and drums--the timpani
> are rather strong in this performance. Not overbearing, but hard to
> ignore. The rest is exciting and fastidious as one would expect of
> Ancerl.
My copy arrived today and it is everything mentioned above and then
some. Fleet, multi-layered, dramatic and elegant, this even tops Szell
for first-rate Mozart. Wonderful!
jy
gggg gggg
> mine
> 35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
> 36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
> 38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
> 39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
> 40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
> With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
> 41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
> *One of the greatest performances of anything perpetuated in wax
> Abbedd
> ________________
> Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/abbeddsplace.html
> Boycott Inglotted CDS
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm
> "Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
> "If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
> ___________________________________________________
> "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
> FDR
(Recent Y. upload):
Repertoire: The IDEAL Mozart Late Symphonies
gggg gggg
https://www.wfmt.com/2021/07/18/william-steinberg-in-live-performance
gggg gggg
> mine
> 35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
> 36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
> 38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
> 39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
> 40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
> With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
> 41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
> *One of the greatest performances of anything perpetuated in wax
> Abbedd
> ________________
> Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/abbeddsplace.html
> Boycott Inglotted CDS
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm
> "Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
> "If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
> ___________________________________________________
> "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
> FDR
Composer Explains Mozart’s Symphony no. 40 in G minor
gggg gggg
> mine
> 35 Toscanini NYP 1929 Studio
> 36 Ansermet NBC 1950 Live
> 38 Ansermet SRO 1947 Studio
> 39 Casals MFO 196? Live *
> 40 Toscanini NBC 1938/39 Studio
> With Casals MFO and Ansermet NBC close behind
> 41 Ansermet BSO 1955 Live
> *One of the greatest performances of anything perpetuated in wax
> Abbedd
> ________________
> Go To Abbedd's Place For the MP3S of the Week
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/abbeddsplace.html
> Boycott Inglotted CDS
> http://home.earthlink.net/~abbedd/noinglottecds.htm
> "Knowing what without knowing why is not knowing what"
> "If Music is important,then anti-Musicality is even more important"
> ___________________________________________________
> "I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made."
> FDR
Mozart: The Last Three Sypmhonies