Haydn Cello Concerto in C
Lena
Cello Concerto. I have Wispelwey, Mork/Iona Brown, du Pre/Barenboim,
and Emil Klein, and, of these, only Wispelwey's works for me
(his "cadenza" notwithstanding :) ).
But although Wispelwey's sense of line is often impeccable and his
Adagio has beauty, I don't hear him, and, even more so, his
slightly, ehm :) , raw-sounding orchestra, indulge quite enough in the
conspicuous warmth of the thematic material in i. I hear this more as
an uncomplicated feel-good piece with a beguiling combination of
energy and sensuousness, and I don't want very high dramatics here,
not even in the mildly dramatic Vivaldiesque Baroque gestures. To
emphasize the warmth, I prefer an on-pitch, round, uhm traditional
sound... (here, not necessarily at all elsewhere).
For some reason everybody seems to get the energy in this piece, but
few go for the sweetness. (That, even though parts of the theme
seem almost a lesson in how to use the scale to produce a melting
quality.) Only Iona Brown's orchestra, despite being a bit "light"
and "graceful," goes along with what's not all that untypical for
Haydn: several good thematic swoonings, but all of them tasteful. :)
Wispelwey also has an idea, but doesn't quite get there.
The other cellists I have are all too aggressive in i. And too
poignant (du Pre), too ridiculous (Klein), or too ambitious (Mork).
Whom should I try? Thanks for any suggestions.
Lena
Lena
>I have Wispelwey, Mork/Iona Brown, du Pre/Barenboim,
>and Emil Klein, and, of these, only Wispelwey's works for me
>Only Iona Brown's orchestra, despite being a bit "light" and
>"graceful," [does some very specific bars of i well].
I should maybe add that I'm not looking for anything like Brown/Mork
overall (my endorsement of a detail doesn't mean I like them a lot
overall). For example, of my discards, Barenboim/du Pre has a *far*
better line in i (du Pre just happens to "fail" in other ways).
Well, hopefully there's some cello playing out there that fits the
prescription, no matter how confusedly stated.
Lena
Paul Goldstein
says...
Yo-Yo Ma's recording is beautiful and very sweet without being cloying.
Paul Goldstein
Simon Roberts
>Dear Haydn-mongers: I need help finding a performance of the C-major
>Cello Concerto. I have Wispelwey, Mork/Iona Brown, du Pre/Barenboim,
>and Emil Klein, and, of these, only Wispelwey's works for me
>(his "cadenza" notwithstanding :) ).
>
>But although Wispelwey's sense of line is often impeccable and his
>Adagio has beauty, I don't hear him, and, even more so, his
>slightly, ehm :) , raw-sounding orchestra, indulge quite enough in the
>conspicuous warmth of the thematic material in i. I hear this more as
>an uncomplicated feel-good piece with a beguiling combination of
>energy and sensuousness, and I don't want very high dramatics here,
>not even in the mildly dramatic Vivaldiesque Baroque gestures. To
>emphasize the warmth, I prefer an on-pitch, round, uhm traditional
>sound... (here, not necessarily at all elsewhere).
Steer clear of Bylsma/Tafelmusik; he's not on good form, frequently out of
tune and takes a tempo for iii that's too fast for him (or surely anyone
else) to articulate and is tonally much more raw than Wispelwey. Among
HIP performances you might find Suzuki/Kuijken/DHM and Coin/Howgood more
suitable - at any rate, they're rather less energetic than Wispelwey
throughout.
Among the non-HIP, I very much like Heinrich Schiff/Marriner, who are
certainly refined but may not offer quite the warmth you're looking for -
Schiff is technically superlative, tonally pure and light (very little
vibrato) and has a jaunty, almost impish air about his playing here, which
alternates as appropriate with delicacy and intimacy; in short,
distinctively characterful and worth seeking out (may be hard to find,
unless it's been reissued). Even so, he may be more clever and inventive
than the sort of performance you may want. Marriner's accompaniment is
unobtrusively first rate.
Another non-HIP performance I rather like is
Perenyi/Rolla on Hungaroton (also Laserlight, but that may not sound as
good), but heard next to Schiff he seems rather plain (though this may
amount to simple lyricism, I suppose) and I don't like his tone or use of
vibrato nearly as much as Schiff's - nor is Rolla's accompaniment as good
as Marriner's.
I'm not sure whether to recommend Rostropovich/Britten/Decca if only
because although there's a fair amount of delicate, lyrical playing, they
bring out the energy in the louder passages more than most (I like it
quite a bit).
I would have expected Vogler's recent recording to fit the bill -
few cellists make a lovelier sound as such than he does - but
unlike any previous recording of his I've encountered this is very
disappointing, the whole enterprise undermined by Guettler's lethally dull
accompaniments.
Stay away from Harrell unless you have a fondness for relentless,
intrusive vibrato (I think it probably has other flaws too, but that one
sticks in my memory the most stubbornly).
>
>For some reason everybody seems to get the energy in this piece,
If only!
Simon (who doesn't think he's heard Mork and who should warn you that he
likes Wispelwey the most)
Samir Golescu
Lena, have you tried Gendron's?
regards,
SG
Lena
>certainly refined but may not offer quite the warmth you're looking for -
>Schiff is technically superlative, tonally pure and light (very little
>vibrato) and has a jaunty, almost impish air about his playing here, which
>alternates as appropriate with delicacy and intimacy; in short,
>distinctively characterful and worth seeking out (may be hard to find,
>unless it's been reissued). Even so, he may be more clever and inventive
>than the sort of performance you may want. Marriner's accompaniment is
>unobtrusively first rate.
[... and other excellent remarks...]
Both the Schiff and the Rostropovich sound interesting (from your
remarks). I think "impish" will be good. :) I probably was a bit
misleading in my descriptions - I like energy in this piece, I was
just looking for sweetness *added* to energy... (I doubt I have
anything against cleverness and inventiveness either. :) As such. :) )
> Simon (who doesn't think he's heard Mork and who should warn you
> that he likes Wispelwey the most)
I also like Wispelwey, and don't find it unsatisfactory (au contraire,
it works well and I'm certainly not getting rid of it). I just wanted
another version with more emphasis on warmth and a softer instrument
sound.
Excellent suggestions. Thank you!
Lena
Lena
> Yo-Yo Ma's recording is beautiful and very sweet without being cloying.
This is the one with the ECO and, I think, Garcia?
Lena
Lena
> Lena, have you tried Gendron's?
No... is it a patisserie? :) I've never even heard of Gendron but
since this is coming from you, I'll have to go look for it. Him. Her.
Lena
Samir Golescu
On 27 Jan 2003, Lena wrote:
> Samir wrote:
>
> > Lena, have you tried Gendron's?
>
> No... is it a patisserie? :)
Pas du tout. . .
> I've never even heard of Gendron but since this is coming from you, I'll
> have to go look for it. Him. Her.
Him. Him. Not so esoteric a name. Maurice Gendron, superb French cellist.
(A fateful "prenom", Maurice, insofar another great French cellist was
Maurice Marechal -- hear his Lalo Cto recording). I remember having heard
Gendron's playing both Haydn cello concertos -- one of them, the D Major
conducted by Pablo Casals no less, in a superb recording and, I believe,
the only time Casals was recorded while conducting another cellist, "your"
C Major in a later -- Philips?? -- recording, slightly drier but still
very beautiful -- and liking them both very much (possibly they
corresponded somewhat to what you were looking for. . . ). I've always
found the French cello school underrated and "underknown". My memories are
vague enough though as for you to want to get some substantial
corroboration from fresher sources before deciding on any major, as in
wallet-paining, acquisition. . . (-:
Also, alongside Simon R's suggestions, hope "REG" is reading you -- he
knows tones of cello recordings.
regards,
SG
Simon Roberts
"Lena" <len...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b33de45.03012...@posting.google.com...
Maurice. Probably not a pastry.
All of which made me think, having arrived home and stared at a shelf or
two, that Fournier might do the trick, but on listening I'm not so
sure - his may be the most consistently extrovert in i I have (which
isn't to say it's not lyrical; but it's hardly intimate either).
Simon
Paul Goldstein
>
>> Yo-Yo Ma's recording is beautiful and very sweet without being cloying.
>
>This is the one with the ECO and, I think, Garcia?
Yes.
Paul Goldstein
wkas...@attbi.com
"Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:G62dnXHuzMt...@comcast.com...
> All of which made me think, having arrived home and stared at a shelf or
> two, that Fournier might do the trick, but on listening I'm not so
> sure - his may be the most consistently extrovert in i I have (which
> isn't to say it's not lyrical; but it's hardly intimate either).
Did Fournier record the C major concerto? I thought that he only did the
other one...
Bill
--
====================
William D. Kasimer
wkas...@attbi.com
wkas...@quincymc.org
REG
"Samir Golescu" <gol...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.31.030127...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu...
Matthew B. Tepper (if there are backslashes in this address, it is forged)
typed in news:77kZ9.65310$6G4.11821@sccrnsc02:
> "Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:G62dnXHuzMt...@comcast.com...
>
>> All of which made me think, having arrived home and stared at a shelf
>> or two, that Fournier might do the trick, but on listening I'm not so
>> sure - his may be the most consistently extrovert in i I have (which
>> isn't to say it's not lyrical; but it's hardly intimate either).
>
> Did Fournier record the C major concerto? I thought that he only did
> the other one...
The C Major was discovered only in the 1960s, if memory serves. I can't
recall just when he died (early 1970s?), but maybe he didn't feel like
learning a "new" work by then.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
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RMCR's most pointless, dumb and laughable chowderhead: Mark Coy.
Matthew B. Tepper (if there are backslashes in this address, it is forged)
Varga was my conducting teacher. I recall seeing him after a summer break,
when he had just returned from recording these.
MBT: "Who was the conductor?"
LV: "Antal Dorati."
MBT: "Wow! How did that go?"
LV: "Antal Dorati is a son of a bitch."
REG
going to be very happy with the one where he is conducting as well - the
sound can be pretty raw.
LastRedLeafFalls
[Fournier]
>I can't
>recall just when he died (early 1970s?), but maybe he didn't feel like
>learning a "new" work by then.
He was alive as late as April 1974, when he recorded the Schubert Opus 99 and
100 trios with Rubinstein and Szeryng, the last efforts of that aggregate.
(Funny; I'd misremembered those Schuberts as being ca. 1971 or so...)
- Todd K
Steve Emerson
"Matthew B. Tepper (if there are backslashes in this address, it is forged)"
<oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> <wkas...@attbi.com> appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:77kZ9.65310$6G4.11821@sccrnsc02:
> > Did Fournier record the C major concerto? I thought that he only did
> > the other one...
>
> The C Major was discovered only in the 1960s, if memory serves. I can't
> recall just when he died (early 1970s?)...
1986, per DG Bach cello suites liner notes.
SE.
Ray Hall
Why not try Maria Kliegel on Naxos. The CD contains the C major Hob. VIIb:1,
along with the two D majors Hob. VIIb:2 and VIIb:4.
Maria Kliegel is a wonderful cellist, (I am also smitten by her so am
completely biased), but her tone is very generously full, even to the point
of being perhaps a tad too full.
With the Cologne CO/Müller-Brühl. There are two numbers in the catalogue.
The one for distribution in Germany has a full frontal (face) on the front
cover, whilst the one I have (8.555041) shows her off in a beautiful black
gown.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
< NEW Doris Day TV series news >
VIVE LA KAREN, and "Never look at the brass - it only encourages them"
Ray, Taree, NSW
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Simon Roberts
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xUkZ9.53851$Oj7.11...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> Unless I don't recall properly, Rost did it twice, and I don't think
you are
> going to be very happy with the one where he is conducting as well -
the
> sound can be pretty raw.
Correct - the earlier one with Britten is far preferable, partly for
Britten's excellent contribution.
Simon
Simon Roberts
<wkas...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:77kZ9.65310$6G4.11821@sccrnsc02...
>
> "Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:G62dnXHuzMt...@comcast.com...
>
> > All of which made me think, having arrived home and stared at a
shelf or
> > two, that Fournier might do the trick, but on listening I'm not so
> > sure - his may be the most consistently extrovert in i I have (which
> > isn't to say it's not lyrical; but it's hardly intimate either).
>
> Did Fournier record the C major concerto? I thought that he only did
the
> other one...
No, I listened to an imaginary recording..... (Sorry.) It's on DG
Galleria 457 904. The just-tolerable accompaniment is Lucerne Festival
Strings/Baumgartner. Recorded in 1967. The other concertos on the disc
are Piano cto in D with Demus/Berlin Radio S.O./Decker (not to be
confused with his HIP recording of the piece), Violin cto in C
LAPO/Zukerman (hideous), Trumpet cto Thibaud/Bamberg S.O./Gerdes.
Perhaps not released in the U.S. (though I bought mine at Academy in
NY)?
Simon
William Satterthwaite
>
> Stay away from Harrell unless you have a fondness for relentless,
> intrusive vibrato (I think it probably has other flaws too, but that one
> sticks in my memory the most stubbornly).
Hideous cadenzas, which Harrell wrote himself.
Bill in Seattle
Mark K. Ehlert
> Also, alongside Simon R's suggestions, hope "REG" is reading you
> -- he knows tones of cello recordings.
^^^^^
So he has a good ear for this sort of thing?
--
Mark K. Ehlert
To respond via e-mail, X = 3
william d. kasimer
> > Did Fournier record the C major concerto? I thought that he only did
> > the other one...
>
> No, I listened to an imaginary recording.....
I've done that on several occasions. They're often better than the real thing.
Bill
Simon Roberts
"william d. kasimer" <wkas...@quincymc.org> wrote in message
news:f69b4194.0301...@posting.google.com...
You could get a job with Penguin...
Simon
Lena
OK.
Since I'm very fond of tersely cogent one-word replies, I'm going to
try it!
Thank you,
Lena
Matthew B. Tepper (if there are backslashes in this address, it is forged)
letters to be typed in news:FMadnfMS_PM...@comcast.com:
Or the Wall Street Journal.
Lena
> Him. Him. Not so esoteric a name. Maurice Gendron, superb French cellist.
> (A fateful "prenom", Maurice, insofar another great French cellist was
> Maurice Marechal -- hear his Lalo Cto recording). I remember having heard
> Gendron's playing both Haydn cello concertos -- one of them, the D Major
> conducted by Pablo Casals no less, in a superb recording and, I believe,
> the only time Casals was recorded while conducting another cellist, "your"
> C Major in a later -- Philips?? -- recording, slightly drier but still
> very beautiful -- and liking them both very much (possibly they
> corresponded somewhat to what you were looking for. . . ).
Thank you!
This sounds promising. So far I've found very few CDs with Gendron (any
composer) and no Haydn. (Though it's hardly relevant here, I'll try to
investigate his playing in Bach...)
Lena
Lena
> Unless I don't recall properly, Rost did it twice, and I don't think you are
> going to be very happy with the one where he is conducting as well - the
> sound can be pretty raw.
Thanks very much. Warning duly noted.
Do you happen to have more identifying information about the Gendron Haydn?
(Any Haydn concerto.) I can't really find anything so far.
Are there more Fournier performances than the one Simon mentions?
Lena
Lena
> Ever hear Laszlo Varga with Antal Dorati, on Vox?
I haven't...
> I'm prejudiced because
> Varga was my conducting teacher. I recall seeing him after a summer break,
> when he had just returned from recording these.
>
> MBT: "Who was the conductor?"
>
> LV: "Antal Dorati."
>
> MBT: "Wow! How did that go?"
>
> LV: "Antal Dorati is a son of a bitch."
I can see how this could result in a particularly "warm and intimate"
performance... :)
Lena
Lena
> Maria Kliegel is a wonderful cellist, (I am also smitten by her so am
> completely biased), but her tone is very generously full, even to the point
> of being perhaps a tad too full.
>
> With the Cologne CO/Müller-Brühl. There are two numbers in the catalogue.
> The one for distribution in Germany has a full frontal (face) on the front
> cover, whilst the one I have (8.555041) shows her off in a beautiful black
> gown.
Interesting advice. Based on this, I think I'll have to try it
immediately after I have my first "attitude adjustment" operation.
Unfortunately, in my current unadjusted state, my interest in female
cellists and their wardrobes rises above the level of nonexistence
only if they come dressed as dachshunds... Though on those
(regrettably few) occasions I'm all attention.
Lena
Paul Goldstein
I had Gendron's Bach Suites on Philips World Series LPs. He is a fabulous
player, something like a Grumiaux of cellists.
Paul Goldstein
Samuel Broda
a newsgroup for this yet?
Sorry, I just couldn't resist,
Sam
Samuel Broda
Alexandria, VA
"Dumping trash along the Information Superhighway since 1983."
Lena
> No, I listened to an imaginary recording.....
Suddenly, the previously bewildering size of your CD collection has become
much more understandable... :)
Lena
Matthew B. Tepper (if there are backslashes in this address, it is forged)
be typed in news:6b33de45.03012...@posting.google.com:
Kind of like those Rubinstein and Reiner collaborations. ;--)
John Holubiak
the Cchamber Orchestra of Europe on RCA Red Seal) and Julian Lloyd Webber on
Philips (412 793-2PH, although this one may be out of print). I enjoy both
of these performances very much.
Isserlis isn't HIP, but he isn't traditional either. Like Yo-Yo Ma he has
incredible ease of tone production and is technically a strong player. The
Andante is quite lovely, and the rich bass of his instrument adds a nice
touch of humor to the Finale. The orchestra is in fine form. Isserlis also
wrote the cadenzas.
The Lloyd Webber is a more traditional performance. He doesn't posess the
razor sharp virtuosity of Isserlis, but he does produce a rich, sweet tone
and this performance has character.
The Gendron performance may have once been on a Philips Concert Classics CD,
possibly coupled with a different recording of the D Major Concerto than the
one conducted by Casals. I'm going from memory on this. Going back to 1996
via Schwann catalogs, I don't see a listing for it so it's probably long
out-of-print. Another poster compared Gendron to Grumiaux, but in his
beautiful tone production and elegance, I'd probably say he reminds me of
Milstein (and also Fournier).
John
> Lena
Simon Roberts
"John Holubiak" <Charm...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:9cIZ9.75236$VU6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> Two more performances you might try are Steven Isserlis (with
Norrington and
> the Cchamber Orchestra of Europe on RCA Red Seal) and Julian Lloyd
Webber on
> Philips (412 793-2PH, although this one may be out of print). I enjoy
both
> of these performances very much.
>
> Isserlis isn't HIP, but he isn't traditional either. Like Yo-Yo Ma he
has
> incredible ease of tone production and is technically a strong player.
The
> Andante is quite lovely, and the rich bass of his instrument adds a
nice
> touch of humor to the Finale. The orchestra is in fine form. Isserlis
also
> wrote the cadenzas.
I hope you don't mind a dissenting comment, but I found that disc
impossibly overrefined, not so much for what Isserlis does (though it's
hard to tell who's to blame - or, I suppose, praise, since you like it)
as Norrington's timid contribution (even worse in the sinfonia
concertante that fills out the disc). It sounds to me as though they're
all tip-toeing around the music, afraid to wake it up.
Simon