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I just discovered R. Strauss songs!

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Andy Evans

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Dec 19, 2006, 10:34:34 PM12/19/06
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Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

Bob Lombard

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Dec 19, 2006, 10:53:59 PM12/19/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166585673....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...

> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in
> Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?
>

You are there - except you need to hear Jessye Norman in them.

bl


david...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 12:09:29 AM12/20/06
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Andy Evans wrote:
> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

No, no, no. You have to get rid of that mannered fake and hear Lisa
della Casa in the first recording of the Four Last ever made in a
spectacularly good Strauss anthology on Decca that includes Miss Della
Casa in excerpts from Arabella, Ariadne, and Capriccio.

-david gable

david...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 12:13:33 AM12/20/06
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Bob Lombard wrote:


> You are there - except you need to hear Jessye Norman in them.

Where you also have to endure Masur's absurd and record breaking slow
tempi, tempi far slower than Furtwaengler used at the world premiere
with Flagstad or Boehm used in the first studio recording with Decca.
One reviewer greeted the Norman/Masur release by wondering why each new
recording of the Four Last used slower tempi than the previous. Masur
broke the record for absurdly slow with this set. And he isn't
remotely interesting.

I certainly prefer the forthright Miss Norman to the pretentious
Frauelein Schwarzkopf.

-david gable

Paul Goldstein

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Dec 19, 2006, 11:58:50 PM12/19/06
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In article <1166585673....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, Andy Evans
says...

>
>Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
>Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

I enjoy Janowitz, Norman, Jurinac and Isokoski much more than the
ever-pretentious Schwarzkopf in the Last Songs.

david...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 12:36:07 AM12/20/06
to

Andy, this is pruned from a discussion of the Della Casa/Böhm
recording I once posted somewhere and revised. I hope it's
intelligible.

In the Four Last Songs, Janowitz is all purity, "angelic" purity as
[another contributor to the thread this appeared in] might have said.
Della Casa's is the purity of formal address, of the deeply sensitive
aristocratic woman who doesn't feel the necessity of wearing her heart
on her sleeve. The poems Strauss set express human perspectives rather
than a detached celestial one, and Strauss brings his accustomed warmth
to them, but the feelings are broached, and by a mature adult, only
obliquely, inferentially, by reference to memories. Indeed, a certain
formality is maintained even as the speaker is overwhelmed by responses
to nature -- to mountains, valleys, acacia trees, the song of the lark,
gardens in the rain, twilight -- and to memories of experiences shared
in nature, responses that well up inside without ever being expressed
directly. There is no distinction between reserve and irony here, and
the emotion is all the more powerful for its lack of lubricity, while
the irony has no need of the brittle and unremitting italicizing that
is Miss Schwarzkopf's stock in trade. It is Lisa della Casa who
ideally meets the demands made by these songs.

-david gable

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 20, 2006, 12:47:19 AM12/20/06
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"Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:12ohcto...@corp.supernews.com:

Or Sena Jurinac on EMI.

A word of warning: The recording of the world premiere (said sometimes to be
actually the dress rehearsal), by Kirsten Flagstad with Furtwängler and the
Philharmonia Orchestra, is in very poor sound, and apparently a better source
has never turned up. I recently bought it on Gebhardt JGCD 0019.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Harrington/Coy is a gay wrestler who won't come out of the closet

jrs...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 1:27:49 AM12/20/06
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Andy Evans wrote:
> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

Are you sure you didn't just discover Szell? ;-)

Try Jonas Kauffman's new recital disc. He's great with Strauss.

And if you haven't listened to Strauss opera much, you're in for a
treat.

--Jeff

Andy Evans

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Dec 20, 2006, 7:25:37 AM12/20/06
to
> I certainly prefer the forthright Miss Norman to the pretentious
> Frauelein Schwarzkopf.
>
> -david gable

I rather like the pretentious Fraulien. Am I suffering from some brain
disease I should know about?

Richard Loeb

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Dec 20, 2006, 8:22:21 AM12/20/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166617537.2...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...

Not at all - many many listeners though the years have gotten quite much
pleasure and have been moved by from Schwarzkopf's artistry - however many
do not like her as wel, for a number of musical and non- musical reasonsl. I
love both of her official recordings of the VLL but I really love her
first - better sung I think , no transposing and more spontaneous!!!
Richard


Paul Ilechko

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Dec 20, 2006, 8:52:53 AM12/20/06
to

I agree - she is far better than Schwarzkopf, and I have no problem with
the tempi, which perfectly suit her interpretation.

wkas...@comcast.net

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Dec 20, 2006, 9:07:31 AM12/20/06
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Andy Evans wrote:

> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

There are many more songs that have been orchestrated, either by
Strauss or others, and many superb recordings. Other recordings of the
FLS include them, and there's a complete set on Nightingale (which may
still be available at http://www.berkshirerecordoutlet.com), which
features variable singing. Better are 2 CD's with Felicity Lott and
Neeme Jarvi on Chandos, and Soile Isokoski's CD (which includes the
FLS).

I also like to hear a tenor singing the orchestral songs; there have
been excellent recordings by Jerusalem, Kollo, and Schock, all OOP as
far as I know (Kollo and Schock never on CD). If anyone is interested,
here is a transfer of Schock's 10" LP:

http://rapidshare.com/files/3933797/strauss_schock.zip

There are also countless wonderful recordings of the songs with piano.
EMI recently issued a budget CD of Lucia Popp and Margaret Price -
without texts, unfortunately.

Bill

Sacqueboutier

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Dec 20, 2006, 9:53:21 AM12/20/06
to
On 2006-12-19 22:53:59 -0500, "Bob Lombard"
<thorste...@vermontel.net> said:

...and Gundula Janowitz!!!

--
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

walt

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Dec 20, 2006, 10:37:40 AM12/20/06
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I don't know, I kind of like my Kiri Takanawa recording of those.


graham

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Dec 20, 2006, 10:55:48 AM12/20/06
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<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1166592967....@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

It is Lisa della Casa who
ideally meets the demands made by these songs.

-david gable
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really must look out for this one. I have never been able to stand
Bessie's honking and hooting since I first heard her.
Graham


graham

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:01:12 AM12/20/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166617537.2...@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
No! I can't stand Bessie's voice and manner. It's a personal thing - some
adore Callas and some detest her. Different strokes.........
Graham


pgaron

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:46:29 AM12/20/06
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walt wrote:
> I don't know, I kind of like my Kiri Takanawa recording of those.

The one with Solti and the Vienna PO -- which I have and also like --
or the one with Andrew Davis conducting, which I have not heard?

pgaron

Bill Anderson

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Dec 20, 2006, 12:44:17 PM12/20/06
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Hi Matthew -

So the marketing blurb regarding a 'new source' for the CD issue is not
true? ( IIRC at least 2 of the songs ran longer than the lacquers were
able to capture)

walt

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Dec 20, 2006, 2:01:18 PM12/20/06
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Davis. Lovely.

"pgaron" <pga...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1166633189.7...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...

Simon Roberts

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Dec 20, 2006, 2:09:14 PM12/20/06
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In article <1166591613....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
david...@aol.com says...

>
>
>Bob Lombard wrote:
>
>
>> You are there - except you need to hear Jessye Norman in them.
>
>Where you also have to endure Masur's absurd and record breaking slow
>tempi, tempi far slower than Furtwaengler used at the world premiere
>with Flagstad or Boehm used in the first studio recording with Decca.

Oh dear; does that mean Masur's historically incorrect?

>One reviewer greeted the Norman/Masur release by wondering why each new
>recording of the Four Last used slower tempi than the previous.

Presumably he stopped saying that after Norman/Masur.

Masur
>broke the record for absurdly slow with this set. And he isn't
>remotely interesting.

No, he isn't; but she is.

Simon

Simon Roberts

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Dec 20, 2006, 2:20:27 PM12/20/06
to
In article <1166585673....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>, Andy Evans
says...
>
>Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
>Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

Yes, you've "arrived already" - though like nearly everyone else I would suggest
you try a different recording (especially if you have the late, Szell-conducted
disc, which I find maddening -- a sublime performance of the last song comes
saddled with (to these ears, anyway) hideously mangled and just plain badly sung
performances of the other three). Try Janowitz (she's gives the better
performance in her live recording with Haitink on Philips & DG, but Karajan's
the better conductor on her better-known DG recording), Isokoski, Norman or
Della Casa for starters.

I don't think many of the other songs are on the level of these four, but
they're still worth trying and there are plenty of good recordings around;
Lehmann's "Morgen" shouldn't be missed.

Simon

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 20, 2006, 3:31:17 PM12/20/06
to
"Bill Anderson" <william....@sap.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:1166636656.975021.281710@
73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com:

Well, I listened to the Gebhardt a few nights ago, and it still sounded
lousy. Flagstad sounds good for her "late period," though a bit shaky here
and there. Of course, another reason to have it is for Dennis Brain.

My opinion of marketing blurbs, you already know.

Andy Evans

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Dec 20, 2006, 3:43:48 PM12/20/06
to
especially if you have the late, Szell-conducted disc, which I find
maddening -- a sublime performance of the last song comes saddled with
(to these ears, anyway) hideously mangled and just plain badly sung
performances of the other three). >

I do indeed have the distinguished Herr Szell at the helm. I'm
obviously easy to please.

Richard Loeb

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Dec 20, 2006, 4:23:33 PM12/20/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166647428.3...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Andy - many, many listeners do not agree with the above sentiment - if that
recording does it for you then it really shouldn't matter what anyone here
says should it????? Richard


Ralph

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Dec 20, 2006, 4:29:09 PM12/20/06
to
Another option is to attend the series of concerts at Lincoln Center,
this coming June, where Deborah Voigt will sing selected songs by
Strauss together with the New York Philharmonic. The other part of the
program is Mahler's 7th.


Ralph

Stephen Montgomery-Smith

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Dec 20, 2006, 4:50:35 PM12/20/06
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Andy Evans wrote:
> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

Is this the same recording that was in the Sigourney Weaver movie "The
Year of Living Dangerously"?

Anyway I do remember listening to this recording about 20 years ago, and
I loved it. I haven't heard it since, so I don't know if I would like
it today.

I have found that my tastes change over the years quite dramatically.
So for example when Monty Python's Holy Grail first came out I thought
it was hilarious. But I watched it again recently, and I found it
boring and stupid. And vice versa, when I first heard Furtwangler's
Beethoven's 6th I didn't enjoy it one bit, and then suddenly one day I
listened to it and thought "wow!"

But I think the secret is this. If you enjoy it, then enjoy it, no
matter what anyone else says. Your tastes might "mature" in the years
to come, but if you try to rush the maturity process in the wrong way,
you might spoil the whole thing.

I must admit that the aspect of this group where one person says "I love
XXX" and then someone else says "if you love XXX you are stupid" is
something that I really enjoy. Admittedly I lack the experience and
knowledge to get into most of the arguments, but I was pleased that my
"Szell" thread (whose subject line I see you mimicked) did start some of
those discussions. (And I did try to keep some similar arguments about
Bernstein hot, but the other parties dropped the ball too soon for my
liking - probably my "is it a crime to dislike Bernstein's recordings"
speech came across too strong.)

The problem I have is this. If I listen to a performance and not enjoy
it, is it because it really was a bad performance, or is it because my
ears and mind is simply not atuned to pick up what is beautiful about
this performance? While I could decide to listen to what I only enjoy,
I have found from personal experience that if I persevere in trying to
enjoy some of those performances that I did not initially like, but that
I have heard others speak highly of, that I really do find treasure and
gold. I find tremendous beauty. But sometimes it can take months or
even years to find.

Stephen

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 20, 2006, 10:49:50 PM12/20/06
to
Stephen Montgomery-Smith <ste...@math.missouri.edu> appears to have caused
the following letters to be typed in news:Leiih.186676$aJ.67472@attbi_s21:

> Andy Evans wrote:
>> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
>> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?
>
> Is this the same recording that was in the Sigourney Weaver movie "The
> Year of Living Dangerously"?

Of course not; they used Te Kanawa with Andrew Davis, a "modern" stereo
recording which wouldn't hurt listener's ears.

> I must admit that the aspect of this group where one person says "I love
> XXX" and then someone else says "if you love XXX you are stupid" is
> something that I really enjoy.

If you really like that sort of thing, you're stupid. ;--)

david...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:10:02 PM12/20/06
to

Andy Evans wrote:


> I rather like the pretentious Fraulien. Am I suffering from some brain
> disease I should know about?

This is the second time you've shocked me, Andy. The first was when I
was unable to predict which Mahler symphony might be a good point of
entry for you on the basis of your enthusiasm for Jeux. This time I'm
shocked that such a passionately detached francophile as yourself could
be taken in by Schwarzkopf's fussiest German style.

-david gable

Message has been deleted

david...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:24:01 PM12/20/06
to

Simon Roberts wrote:


> Oh dear; does that mean Masur's historically incorrect?

You do realize there's a difference between history recorded in sound
and history speculatively recreated at the distance of centuries from a
limited number of speculative premises. But what I detest about that
mediocrity, Kurt Masur, and for that matter Solti and Andrew Davis and
many other more recent conductors is their blandness, the lack in their
performances of the kind of active engagement in phrasing and in the
differentiation of the various unfolding lines in the texure that was
the stock in trade of Furtwaengler and even Boehm, both German
conductors who were contemporaries of Strauss, one the chap who gave
the world premiere of the VLL, the other a conductor who had a long
association with the composer.

-david gable

Stephen Montgomery-Smith

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:28:32 PM12/20/06
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Stephen Montgomery-Smith <ste...@math.missouri.edu> appears to have caused
> the following letters to be typed in news:Leiih.186676$aJ.67472@attbi_s21:

>>I must admit that the aspect of this group where one person says "I love

>>XXX" and then someone else says "if you love XXX you are stupid" is
>>something that I really enjoy.
>
> If you really like that sort of thing, you're stupid. ;--)

Unfortunately you have a made a rather accurate assessment here. My
wife would definitely appreciate where you are going with this remark.

I really enjoyed your web page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/britain.html. As it happens I lived in
England at the time of your visit (I moved to the USA in 1988). Your
observations about the people was really spot on. I did mildly disagree
with your assessment of the Scottish - I personally found them more
friendly than the South easterners (which is my heritage) - on the other
hand I readily admit that my first visit to Scotland wasn't until 1995,
when I was in effect an American tourist.

Stephen

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 20, 2006, 11:43:40 PM12/20/06
to
Stephen Montgomery-Smith <ste...@math.missouri.edu> appears to have
caused the following letters to be typed in
news:Q3oih.322662$1i1.103075@attbi_s72:

I am sorry to have given the impression that I found the Scots to be in any
way unfriendly. I was trying to convey my feeling that I found them to be
reserved, particularly around loud and brash Yanks such as myself. When
you truly get to know a Scot, he can be your best friend in the world.

david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 12:55:13 AM12/21/06
to

Simon Roberts wrote:


> I don't think many of the other songs are on the level of these four, but
> they're still worth trying and there are plenty of good recordings around;

Or, to put it another way, Strauss's Lieder for voice and piano are
rarely as ambitious in scope as the VLL. That being said, there are
many gems among them, and, as with Johann Strauss's dances, the gems
are mainly the best known ones: "Morgen," "Zueignung," "Cäcelie,"
"Breit über mein Haupt," etc.

One of the attractions of the Lieder for those who often find Strauss's
unremitting profusion of busy detailing and fussy and overstuffed
orchestration somewhat suffocating is their comparative freshness and
modesty.

-david gable

Philip Peters

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Dec 21, 2006, 7:18:48 AM12/21/06
to
Richard Loeb schreef:

Would that be the Ackermann 1953 recording?

Philip
>
>

Simon Roberts

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Dec 21, 2006, 8:28:49 AM12/21/06
to
In article <1166674850.2...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
david...@aol.com says...

>
>
>Simon Roberts wrote:
>
>
>> Oh dear; does that mean Masur's historically incorrect?
>
>You do realize there's a difference between history recorded in sound
>and history speculatively recreated at the distance of centuries.

Trying to tease David is hard work.

But
>what I detest about that mediocrity, Kurt Masur, and for that matter
>Solti and Andrew Davis and many other more recent conductors is their
>blandness,

Quite so.

the lack in their performances of the kind of active

>phrasing that was the stock in trade of Furtwaengler and Boehm, both


>German conductors who were contemporaries of Strauss, one the chap who
>gave the world premiere of the VLL, the other a conductor who had a
>long association with the composer.

However, you singled out Masur's slowness. Perhaps that was Norman's choice; he
tends to favor brisk tempi, often, I sometimes suspect, because he realizes that
when you have nothing to say you shouldn't dally....

Simon

Andy Evans

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Dec 21, 2006, 9:02:31 AM12/21/06
to

As for Mahler, I've fallen on bad times again. Tried to like the 9th
symphony and totally failed, though I got on better with 1 and 2.
But these Strauss songs are magic - the key changes in the first of the
last songs, so to speak, had me quite transfixed.
So what's wrong with coquettish German Frauleins? I used to really
fancy Elke Sommer in those Pink Panther films. Isn't there a place in
your heart for a bit of girlie charm?

Paul Ilechko

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Dec 21, 2006, 9:05:20 AM12/21/06
to
Simon Roberts wrote:

> However, you singled out Masur's slowness. Perhaps that was Norman's choice;

I always assumed so. Norman's interpretation of the songs works, Masur
is doing little to help but also nothing to hurt, so he doesn't really
bother me. Szell is much better with the Fraulein, but I far prefer
Norman's singing.

Andy Evans

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Dec 21, 2006, 9:07:01 AM12/21/06
to
When you truly get to know a Scot, he can be your best friend in the
world. >>

Except that:
a) you never truly get to know a Scot
b) he'll always put Scotland before you anyway

graham

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Dec 21, 2006, 9:41:17 AM12/21/06
to

"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166710021.4...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
"It is never difficult to distinguish between a Scotsman with a grievance
and a ray of
sunshine." P.G.Woodhouse.


david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 12:40:43 PM12/21/06
to

Simon Roberts wrote:


> However, you singled out Masur's slowness.

I also said he was dull!

-david gable

david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 12:47:55 PM12/21/06
to

Andy Evans wrote:


> So what's wrong with coquettish German Frauleins? I used to really
> fancy Elke Sommer in those Pink Panther films.

Andy, you may be forgiven if you've forgotten who Lloyd Bentsen is, but
to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, I've seen Elke Sommer in those Pink
Panrher films, and Schwarzkopf is no Elke Sommer. You really must get
to know Elke's friends, Anneliese Rothenberger, Hilde Gueden, and Lisa
della Casa. Miss Della Casa is Swiss, but Miss Rothenberger is a Lulu!

-david gable

david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 12:54:35 PM12/21/06
to

> Simon Roberts wrote:

> > Perhaps [slow tempi] was Norman's choice;

Paul Ilechko wrote:

> I always assumed so.

You never know, but I rather doubt it.

-david gable

Simon Roberts

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Dec 21, 2006, 12:55:16 PM12/21/06
to
In article <4uvikuF...@mid.individual.net>, Paul Ilechko says...

>
>Simon Roberts wrote:
>
>>However, you singled out Masur's slowness. Perhaps that was Norman's choice;
>
>I always assumed so. Norman's interpretation of the songs works, Masur
>is doing little to help but also nothing to hurt, so he doesn't really
>bother me.

Nor me, here. Norman's voice suits her interpretation and vice-versa; it would
be as hard to imagine someone else pulling it off as to imagine Norman flitting
through them a la Della Casa/Boehm.

Simon

Paul Ilechko

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Dec 21, 2006, 1:20:18 PM12/21/06
to

But ignoring Masur's bland accompaniment, and just focusing on Norman's
singing, don't you think it works ?

pgaron

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Dec 21, 2006, 2:28:43 PM12/21/06
to

Andy Evans wrote:

> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

One of my favorite moments in the 4LS is that orchestral interlude in
the third song, where the first-chair violinist gets to play a solo.
The music, which seems to float in the air above the orchestra, is
sublime.

If Strauss wrote the 4LS as a final love letter to sopranos, then he
certainly added an affectionate parting note to the violinists as well.

pgaron

david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 2:32:24 PM12/21/06
to

Paul Ilechko wrote:

> But ignoring Masur's bland accompaniment, and just focusing on Norman's
> singing, don't you think it works ?

I like Jessye Norman, but it's not possible for me not to notice the
tempi or what a nonentity Masur is. No, I don't think the songs can or
do work at Masur's tempi, and, if they could be made to work after a
fashion, they haven't been by Masur. As for Norman, I have
considerable respect for her artistry, I love her voice, and I can
imagine liking a Norman performance under another conductor, but I
don't believe she is or ever could be a conduit for these particular
songs on the level of Lisa della Casa or Sena Jurinac. (I do love
Norman as the the Countess Almaviva in the Figaro with Colin Davis and
her recording of Berlioz's Cléopâtre with Barenboim, the Berlioz in
particular being a very good temperamental fit for her.)

-david gable

david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 2:42:02 PM12/21/06
to

pgaron wrote:

> One of my favorite moments in the 4LS is that orchestral interlude in
> the third song, where the first-chair violinist gets to play a solo.

Or the first song, depending on the performance. Della Casa and Boehm
use what, by your reckoning, would be this order: 3 - 2 - 1 - 4.

-david gable

graham

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Dec 21, 2006, 2:45:28 PM12/21/06
to

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1166729544.7...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Paul Ilechko wrote:

> But ignoring Masur's bland accompaniment, and just focusing on Norman's
> singing, don't you think it works ?

I like Jessye Norman, but it's not possible for me not to notice the
tempi or what a nonentity Masur is. No, I don't think the songs can or
do work at Masur's tempi, and, if they could be made to work after a
fashion, they haven't been by Masur. As for Norman, I have
considerable respect for her artistry, I love her voice, and I can
imagine liking a Norman performance under another conductor, but I
don't believe she is or ever could be a conduit for these particular
songs on the level of Lisa della Casa or Sena Jurinac. (I do love
Norman as the the Countess Almaviva in the Figaro with Colin Davis and

her recording of Berlioz's Cléopātre with Barenboim, the Berlioz in


particular being a very good temperamental fit for her.)

-david gable
__________________________________________________

And her Urlicht in M2 with Maazel. I heard it when it first came out,
excerpted on the radio in the car on the way to work one morning. I had to
pull over to listen to it and get the details.
Graham


Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 21, 2006, 3:38:57 PM12/21/06
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"pgaron" <pga...@my-deja.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:1166729323.2...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com:

And in the horn solo, to his father, whom he expected to see again soon.

Cornelius

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Dec 21, 2006, 5:12:16 PM12/21/06
to
Hi Andy,

I would say myself: go and listen to other versions, but I'm pretty
sure you'll come back to the Schwarzkopf/Szell pretty quickly. I have
been obssessed with these 4 letzte lieder and I have listened to a lot
of different versions (Norman, Janowitz/Karajan, Della Casa, Te Kanawa,
Schwarzkopf/Karajan) and I have to say the best is definitely
Schwarzkopf/Szell, the orchestra is the best and the voice is the best.
I love Jessye Norman too, and Janowitz isn't bad of course, but I think
the summit IS Elizabeth and George.

Cheers,

TareeDawg

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Dec 21, 2006, 5:27:12 PM12/21/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Who ever didn't fancy Elke Sommer?

If you love the music so much Andy, then chase some other interpretations as
has been suggested, and make up your own mind. The Szell/Schwarzkopf 4 Last
Songs have long been regarded as a 'classic' version, from the likes of
Gramophone, and some others. Say no more. I like Janowski/HvK.
Interestingly, I would presume, for Furty fans, is that he and Flagstadt
gave the UK premier of the Last 4 Songs in London in 1950, and guess who
gave the second UK perfomance? Why, none other than Shirley Bassey in 1955
in Cardiff, with Owain Arwel Hughes conducting the BBC Welsh Symphony
Orchestra. Hey boyo, what are you waiting for then? Details courtesy of
MusicWeb.

Sorry about your Mahlerian struggle, but really, you should have gone for
Mahler's 6th and his 7th, and Das Lied von der Erde, before trying the 9th
symphony. The 9th symphony did that to me also when I was getting into
Mahler. Never has been my favourite Mahler symphony then, and not since.

Too many carp on about the Mahler 9th as being something of a pinnacle. Take
away the Rondo Burlesque and I find nothing too special about the work,
except that it is by Mahler of course.

Happy Chrissy, and to All Here

PS: Pompey were robbed at the Grove last week, but at least they were robbed
by Arsenal.
<g>

Ray H
Taree, NSW


david...@aol.com

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Dec 21, 2006, 10:12:37 PM12/21/06
to

TareeDawg wrote:


> The Szell/Schwarzkopf 4 Last
> Songs have long been regarded as a 'classic' version, from the likes of
> Gramophone

Schwarzkopf flatters the audience into thinking it's knowing and
sophisticated with her calculated and mannered projection of every
syllable. That's the secret of her success.

-david gable

TareeDawg

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Dec 22, 2006, 3:18:45 AM12/22/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166709751.0...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>> > I rather like the pretentious Fraulien. Am I suffering from some brain
>> > disease I should know about?


For Bassey fans, maybe this link will be of interest :-
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Apr05/Mahler_Strauss_Basey.htm

In modern sound on Ondine, is a Finnish soprano in the Four Last Songs, and
others,
Soile Isokoski/Rundfunk Sinfonieorchester Berlin/Marek Janowski

The link below is interesting wrt these great songs by R Strauss, and gives
various feelings towards several interpreters, including Isokoski.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/release/dm54/

Ray H
Taree, NSW


TareeDawg

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Dec 22, 2006, 3:52:13 AM12/22/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?

Vier letzte Lieder

1 - Arleen Augér, Wiener Philharmoniker, André Previn
2 - Montserrat Caballé, Philharmonique de Strasbourg, Alain Lombard
3 - Lisa della Casa, Wiener Philharmoniker, Karl Böhm
4 - Melanie Diener, Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester, Claudio Abbado
5 - Renée Fleming, Houston Symphonic Orchestra, Gustav von Eschenbach
6 - Heather Harper, Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Norman del Mar
7 - Barbara Hendricks, Philadelphia Orchestra, Wolfgang Sawallisch
8 - Soile Isokoski, Runfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin, Marek Janowski
9 - Gundula Janowitz, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan
10 - Sena Jurinac, Stockholm Philharmonic, Fritz Busch
11 - Hanne-Lore Kuhse, Gewandhausorchester Leipzig, Václav Neumann
12 - Felicity Lott, Royal Scottish National Orchestra, Neeme Järvi
13 - Charlotte Margiono, RFO Holland, Edo de Waart
14 - Karita Mattila, Berliner Philharmoniker, Claudio Abbado
15 - Elisabeth Meyer-Topsoe, Copenhagen Philharmonic, H Bihlmeier
16 - Birgit Nilsson, Sweidish Radio SO, Leif Segerstram
17 - Jessye Norman, Gewandhaus Orchester, Kurt Masur
18 - Lucia Popp, London Philharmonic, Klaus Tennstedt
19 - Lucia Popp, London Symphony, Michael Tilson-Thomas
20 - Leontyne Price, Philharmonia, Erich Leinsdorf
21 - Anneliese Rothenberger, London Symphony Orchestra, André Previn
22 - Anne Schwanewilms, The Hallé Orchestra, Mark Elder
23 - Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Berliner Rundfunk Symphonie Orchester, Georg
Szell
24 - Elisabeth Söderström, Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, Antal
Dorati
25 - Elisabeth Söderström, Welsh National Orchestra, Richard Armstrong
26 - Cheryl Studer, Staatskapelle Dresden, Giuseppe Sinopoli
27 - Sharon Sweet, London Symphony Orchestra, Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos
28 - Kiri Te Kanawa, Wiener Philharmoniker, Georg Solti
29 - Anna Tomowa-Sintow, Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan
30 - Deborah Voigt, New York Philharmonic, Kurt Masur

Whether Richard Strauss intended to make a song cycle is a question of
debate. In an interesting essay by Timothy L. Jackson, it is explained that
Strauss did think of composing two extra texts by Hesse, Nacht and Höhe des
Sommers, but the truth is that he himself organized the idea of the first
performance of the 4 songs and invited Kirsten Flagstad to sing them,
provided that a great maestro would conduct them - of course, Wilhelm
Furtwängler was the one who fulfilled the task. There is also a controversy
about the "letzte", since Strauss did compose an extra song, Malven, for
Maria Jeritza, but we have to remember that this is a far less ambitious
work and a private gift to a friend.

The première was in May, 22nd, 1950, with the songs performed in the
following order: Beim Schlafgehen, September, Frühling and Im Abendrot. It
was his publisher Roth who changed the order to the usual Frühling,
September, Beim Schlafgehen and Im Abendrot (all of them based on poems by
Hesse, with the exception of the last one, a setting of an Eichendorff
poem). He also gave the collective title "Four last songs" - Strauss didn't
give them such a name. Jackson also suggests that Ruhe, meine Seele, a song
previously composed but orchestrated soon after the completion of the Four
Last Songs, should be included in the cycle, because of motivic connections
(the orchestral theme to apear in the world "Not" in Ruhe meine Seele,
labelled by him Not motive). It is important also to know that the songs
were composed in the following order: Im Abendrot (May 6th 1948), Frühling
(July 18th 1948), Beim Schlafgehen (August 4th, 1948) and September
(September 20th 1948). However, the order arranged by the publisher is the
one generally adopted, since it follows a kind of "season logic" - Frühling
and September being "sunlit songs", the first more animated than the second,
Beim Schlafgehen and Im Abendrot revealing a darker atmosphere, the second
ending with the contemplation of death. This is the order we're following to
introduce the songs.

The richness of poetic description of Strauss's setting of Hesse's Frühling
is beyond the power of words. Voice and orchestra are one in this song - it
is one perpetual long musical phrase where the soprano emerges sometimes
from the thread of sound woven in the heart of the orchestra. It is very
important to remember that, although Flagstad was the one chosen for the
première, it was not her voice in Strauss' mind when he composed it
(according to Jackson, it was rather a tribute to a victim of end-of-war
nightmare, which was the case of the Norwegian soprano, accused of being a
Nazi collaborator just because she decided to follow home her husband, who
held a public position in his country). By 1950, Flagstad was not on her
prime and it is really high for her sometimes. Anyway, Strauss's ideal
soprano is said to be his wife's, Pauline de Ahna, whose voice was described
as a most luminous jugendlich dramatisch. Anyway, this song is probably the
most vocally demanding in the cycle - the range is enormous and the soprano
must have the necessary projection to carry over the orchestra, which is
stronger here than in the rest of the cycle.

The whole Frühling is based on a certain pattern of ascending phrases, which
illustrate the idea of the upward movements of plants, of the sun, of human
activity in spring. So, we start with a dark atmosphere with lower
instruments and the soprano in the lower register of her voice for In
dämmrigen Grüften. We notice that the strings are playing already an upward
pattern here. Then, in "Von deinen Bäumen und blauen Lüften", the soprano
goes up and up and so the orchestra, we have the violins and higher woodwind
and the effect is like opening a window and the sunlight entering through
it. Then in "Von deinem Duft und Vogelsang", lots of mimetic effects
appear - such as the flutes' trill and the soprano melisma in "Vogel" to
illustrate the birdsong. It is also important to notice how the orchestra
antecipates many of the intervals to be sung by the soprano during the whole
song. The next stanza is where the "upward" phrasing gets more evident. The
orchestra repeats the pattern all the time and the soprano is taken to her
extreme note in the word "Wunder". In the third stanza, where all the
excitement of the arrival of the spring gives place to a more subdued
realization of the bliss brought by it, a contrasting orchestral theme
starts to prevail - a downward one which repeats itself during the whole
passage to appear in the soprano voice during the "deine selige Gegenwart"
passage. The song ends in the atmosphere of those "Redemption" passages in
Wagner operas, with higher strings and woodwind, harp and major key.

September also has two patterns, described by Norman del Mar as: "the
first - which opens the song - alternating a gentle undulation of chords
with a wide melodic span" and the second is the exact melody of "Der Sommer
schauert" in Norman del Mar's word "one of its composer's most generous
melodies although it never occurs twice the same, being a series of variants
[of the above described] figure". However, I would develop del Mar's comment
on saying that actually motive two is already a derivation of motive one -
the undulation of seconds, either major or minor, being the real seed of
this song. It appears all the time in the vocal line in words such as
"Blumen", "Sommer", "Gartentraum" and "Müdgewordenen". However, it acquires
"life", i.e., developes into a soaring melody in the appearing of the word
"Sommer lächelt". Also, in "seinem Ende entgegen" a theme related to the
sunset in the opera Daphne appears in the horn. The horn eventually takes
our second motive in a soaring melody in the end of the song. It is also
important to mention the incredible tapestry of sounds during the whole
song, involving flutes, violins - wonderfully called by Del Mar as
"chriping, trilling and rustiling" - "in some thirteen parts", he also
reminds us. This song, with its strongest structural sense and autumnal
atmosphere is a masterpieece, we can say without the fear of sounding
repetitive.
The third song is the favourite with the audiences. The encore generally is
this one. This song has clearly two parts: the "day" part and the "night"
part. The day part starts in the deep end of the orchestra, with the lower
strings soon followed by the high ones in imitation until the soprano enters
repeating this musical idea. This "dark" phrases in the double-bass are
roughtly the main motive in this part, which is rather arioso in style, with
a more fluid structure. Lots of beautiful musical effects appear still in
the "day" section. When "gestirnte Nacht" appears we have flutes, celesta
and violins (remniscent of the silver rose scintillation in Der
Rosenkavalier) to show us the starry night; the "tired child" is illustrated
by the soprano with a downward melisma; "allem Tun" has some staccatto
phrases on lower strings - a bit comic, as if to show that "all things to
do" are unimportant; and one should notice how all the orchestra rests in
quietness when the word "Schlummer" appears. It is quite noticeable that the
"day" part is rather gloomy, while the night part is essenstially blissful,
because it reveals the moment when the soul leaves the worldly ado to float
freely in the magic realms of night. This experience is related first by the
solo violin in a melody which is a development of our first motive, but now
it has an exquisite acompaniment- in the higher strings and gets higher and
higher. Then, as Norman del Mar reminds us, this melody is taken by the
voice exactly as in Strauss' Morgen. This section is the moment where our
motive is really developed and it is going to appear here continuously. The
ascending phrase which describes the soaring into the realms of night is
closely related to the soprano phrase. It starts with the basic motives (the
notes sung on "Und die Se-e"), but here the motive is completed by an extra
note forming a descending major third (f-eb-db) and then, starting from the
last note we have an upward arpeggio of a major chord (db-f-ab) - this
"codetta" to our motive is the whole idea for the upward phrase for the
"Flügen schweben" soaring melody. The starry night of the "day" section here
becomes "the magic circle of night", but also gets its "silver rose
scintillation" and the soprano is taken to her lower note in the word
"Nacht". A wonderful resource is also the piling up of the basic motive to
give us the idea of "tausendfach" in the end of the song.

The fourth song is rightly the "conclusive" moment of the cycle - it is the
one with lots of references: the Not pattern of Ruhe, meine Seele, the bird
trills from Frühling, the undulation from September in the orchestral
introduction, Tod und Verklärung in the orchestral postulde - we could even
say that the idea of the solo violin should remind us of Beim Schlafgehen.
It is based again on two opposed ideas - the richly melodic phrases on the
strings in the opening and the downward interjections in the horns. Those
themes join beautifully for "So tief im Abendrot", the larks' trills work as
a third musical leading idea and they work beautifully in the end of the
song, when the organ like solemn orchestral sounds together with the
trilling flutes make us see the sunset in the mountains, the birds flying in
the sky. This is also the most melodic song in the cycle and its meditative
atmosphere reflects the whole idea of the cycle - that there is time to
live, but there is time to die too.

In theory, the Four Last Songs are a very lucky piece due to its richness of
discography, but the fact really is that this is rather the result of the
ambition of most sopranos and the acceptance of most mediocre conductors.
Very few of these performances are really worth while - because - it is very
important to stress - this is a VERY difficult piece.

We start our adventure with two most important performances - those
featuring some of Strauss' favourite conductors: Karl Böhm and Fritz Busch.
In both these performances, we are going to find faster tempi and a sense of
forward movement, very typical of Strauss' own conducting style. Also the
singers adopt a very direct phrasing and treat some passages as "ornaments"
(and not as "principal" melody). Today listeners could think that their
performances are a bit insensitive and they are not entirely wrong.

The Busch performance is rather a curiosity. It is a live performance with
very problematic sound - and the soloist knew the songs for less than a
month. Luckily, it is Sena Jurinac, whose uniquely warm and silvery voice
works beautifully for Strauss - but the truth is that, after all those
wonderful expressive performances we are going to talk about, it is a rather
forgettable piece of singing. In Busch, we praise the understanding of
structure and passion for clarity. If we have to keep a souvenir as these
songs used to be performed according to the older Straussian tradition, the
Böhm is the one to have. It is a mono recording (so is Busch's), but very
clear. Böhm is wonderfully clear - in no other performance, the structural
quality of the four songs as a cycle appears so immediately. However, the
faster tempi and detached articulation do sound insensitive to our ears.
Although I think that not necessarily because Busch and Böhm knew what
Strauss himself would like they are right, but what they bring to this piece
is really unique and should be in any serious collection. I couldn't regret
more that Lisa della Casa was the soloist chosen by Böhm. Although she is in
easiest voice (Frühling sounds like Ridente la Calma under these
circumstances), she couldn't be more phlegmatic. Everything she is singing
about seems to be "oh, how pretty is my voice".

As she had done with many other Strauss pieces, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf is the
singer who settled the style in which these pieces should be sung. When the
Böhm recording was released, Schwarzkopf's earlier recording (in mono sound
too) with Ackermann was its direct rival. Although some may found her
mannered, Schwarzkopf is in a world unknown to della Casa. In 1954, her
voice was at its best, floating beautifully through Strauss's long lines,
and the smile in her voice in Frühling is most welcome. However, most
listeners will prefer her second recording with Georg Szell. In the 60's, it
was somewhat late for her, but she is a very cunning vocalist and disguises
it the best way she can, even if she cannot desguise the fact is that top
notes tend to be hooty and the low ones to be spoken or thrown in chest
voice. Interpretatively, it is far improved than the otherwise fresher-toned
earlier account. She gives a serene account of the songs, surprisingly and
very appropriately so in Frühling and offers some exquisite floated mezza
voce when necessarily. I think that many fans of this recording should like
the fact that she sings it almost as a "popular" singer would sing Gershwin's
Embraceable you - let's call it a "Billie Holiday Four Last Songs" - there
is not lots of voice here, but lots of verbal insight. The recording has
Schwarzkopf recorded a bit close to the microphone and the orchestra a bit
backwards, but not dangerously so. Although Ackermann has far livelier tempi
and his mono recording is clearer, Szell has the better structural
understanding and plays the effects in the score Ackermann lets too often
pass unnoticed. In its discrete way, the Hungarian conductor beautifully
paints the atmosphere and gives forward movement to his basically slow
tempi. As a matter of fact, there IS a Schwarzkopf/Szell recording that is
really superior to this one. It was made in the Holland Festival and has
wonderfully spacious recording, Schwarzkopf in healthier voice and Szell's
conducting is really incandescent.

Gundula Janowitz naturally is everybody's idea of Strauss soprano and her
recording with Karajan was expected as a major event. In interviews, the
conductor explained how he made Janowitz listen to the orchestra and the
orchestra to Janowitz, so that they could blend to perfection. He also told
that this was one of his very favourite recordings. I am happy that he was
happy with it, because I am not. I can't think of other way of describing
his conducting - it is oily. The phrasing is unclear in a helpless way - it
gives you rather an impressionist vision of the piece, for you can't find
the outline of phrases or of instrumental sound. It does sound like a
pizza - a capricciosa pizza - there is lots of stuff there, but you cannot
discover WHAT. It is really a pity, for Janowitz, once past the low notes in
the beginning of Frühling, is simply heavenly throughout, especially in the
3rd song, where she practically has no rivals. Her performance has a moonlit
extatic quality that makes it unique.

If there is a soprano dear to every Straussian, it is Lucia Popp. Not only
her voice is everything Strauss's music calls for, but also she dealt with
it in a way one could only call passionate. Her first recording with Klaus
Tennstedt is a classic and - I won't lie - my really favourite one. To start
with - nobody sings the four songs as beautifully as she does. She is full
of life in the first one, incredibly melancholic in the second, heavenly in
the third and her fourth song has what Hofmannsthal would have called the
"Geheimnis der Verwandlung" - it is transcendent, with ist dies etwa der
Tod? produced with less and less vibrato until we have a dead sound in
"Tod". Moreover, her incredible attention to the text gives life to every
verse and, in some moments, one feels that her singing of each phrase has
the same inflection the verse would have without music. She is wonderfully
partnered by Klaus Tennstedt, who knew how to make a blending of the older
(faster and more articulate) and newer (slower and more atmospherical)
traditions of performance of this piece. I haven't seen a conductor so
masterly in the art of rittardando and accelerando. And it is done in the
most natural and consequent way. As a final blessing, EMI recorded it
wonderfully with soprano and orchestra as an unique entity, allowing for
utmost clarity. If you want to have ONE recording, this is the one. My only
complain is - WHY the solo violin has to be so "gipsy"-like??? I dream of
listening to it with economic use of vibrato - just to know how it is...

When Popp went to the studio for her second recording, it was under very sad
circumstances. She was already very ill and knew she was going to die. This
information makes it hard to assess this performance from such a favourite
singer. Trying to be objective, the first song is the less successful one.
The tone is sometimes squeezed and high notes may be abruptly interrupted
rather than finished. However, when the demands are less heavy on her, one
can savour her warm tone and imagination. Compared to her first performance,
it is not particularly positive, although there are moments with extra
insight and delicacy, such as "Sommer lächelt erstaunt und matt" in
September. She is still interesting compared to some contemporary releases.
She is more comfortable than Hendricks, more imaginative and varied than
Augér, to start with. Tilson Thomas' conducting is somewhat superficial, but
effective. He clearly concentrates on the fact that it is beautiful music
and tries to make it the prettier he can. Well, it does sound beautiful and
has a good level of clarity. Also, his tempi are very well chosen. Sony's
recorded sound is pleasant, but not completely natural.

Birgit Nilsson decided to record it too late in her career. In the early 60's,
her performance, under a sensitive conductor, could have been a beautiful
experience. As it is, although she clearly shows to have all the good ideas,
she is fighting against her powerful voice to make it a lighter and softer
one. This makes her sometimes to be under-the-note. However, I guess that
Nilsson's fans would like to have it. I remember that, when I listened to it
for the first time, I was amazed that, in her only Brünnhilde/Elektra days
(this is from 1970), she could still offer a not bad performance of these
songs. The recording is incredibly boxy and it is difficult to say much
about the orchestra under these conditions. Segerstram's tempi are not bad
at all.

Caballé's performance is incredibly puzzling. Her voice is of the right kind
for this music, but she is so fussy about tempi, dinamics and phrasing that
she results on sounding simply weird. Frühling is the main victim - she
stresses the wrong notes and words all the time, places pianissimi where
there should not be or loud notes when there should be soft ones... It's
really messy. In the other songs, she's less eccentric, but there still are
lots of sliding and weird dynamics. However, if there had been a point
behind all that, what is eccentric could have been called challenging, but
Caballé clearly is unaware of what she is singing and treats the piece as if
it was the Chants d'Auvergne. Sure, there are some beautiful moments and,
even if Im Abendrot sung entirely on mezza voce is really uninteresting, it
sure is a display of legato. The recorded sound is very warm and, if Alain
Lombard had took the option of really conducting instead of following his
whimsical soloist, it could have been interesting.

Here I'd need Jack Palance to say "Believe it or not!", but the truth is
that Erich Leinsdorf's conducting is amazingly good. His performance with
the Philharmonia is simply impressive. His choice of tempi is incredibly
successful - flowing but not excessively fast - and the level of clarity is
astonishing too. Also, he shows real understanding of the structural
sophistication of the pieces and does all that offering richest orchestral
sounds. The Philharmonia is in excellent shape and RCA has marvellous
recording. I understand that Leinsdorf and Leontyne Price were a team, but
the fact is that she is totally inadequate as a soloist for these songs. She
is in good voice but is stylistically alien to Strauss style. Just listen to
her In dämm'rigen Grüften - she sounds as if she was singing Nobody knows
that way I feel this morning (yes, it is of Dinah Washington I'm talking
about...). Boy, she sounds fierce here! Ah, there's all the Price mannerisms
here - sliding, smoky low notes, leaving the note abruptly. It all works in
Verdi, but sounds really weird here. Considering that MARGARET Price never
had a studio recording and that she was in shining form in 1973, it makes
one thinks of what this might have been.

If I had to point out ONE conductor to exemplify how the four last songs
should be conducted, it would be the Strauss specialist Norman del Mar. It
is simply perfect. While he keeps utmost clarity and accuracy, it has a
larger-than-life quality. The orchestra seems to be a sunlit ocean. It is
simply too beautiful for words to describe, but - you know - it was too good
to be true. WHY Heather Harper had to be called only to ruin it? This disc
has Elisabeth Harwood in other songs and she is very very fine. Why was not
she invited for the four last songs? Harper is in unwieldy voice and there
is nothing to redeem her performance. I can't even call her singing
amateurish, because she sounds worn most of the time. The recorded sound is
very nice too. A pity.

A rather morbid curiosity is Hanne Lore Kuhse's recording with the
Gewandhaus Orchestra at its best. It is sad that the soloist is so
disappointing - often below pitch and offering various examples of sloppy
phrasing. Václav Neumann goes for the egg-timer approach - I have never
heard any recording as insensitively fast as this one.

Kiri Te Kanawa was in heavenly voice in her first recording with Andrew
Davis. Her phrasing and interpretation are also beautiful and she is among
the most successful singers in this piece. I just wished she had a better
partner. Andrew Davis is not bad - only it is undistinguished as a whole.
Kapellmeisterlich is the word which comes to my mind. But if you want to
listen to this with Kiri at her best, this is he performance you'll have to
live with. In her second performance, the voice is simply less fresh and,
her interpretation is rather anonimous. Although Solti's conducting is very
good, forward moving and very clear, his approach is too inflexible and
maybe he has something to do with Kiri's absentmindness here. For instance,
in the third song, the "Flügen schweben" is overdone in its
"faster-and-louder" phrasing, spoiling all the magic of the moment. Decca's
recorded sound is very clean and the Vienna Philharmonic is in great shape,
but the sirupy solo violin playing is a drawback. The rest of the disc shows
the soprano under a best light, her approach to the songs, although not the
most insightful, is varied and rich toned - her account of Malven is
probably the most exquisite I have ever heard. Solti is again too inflexible
accompanist and one lacking in nuance. The piano could have been recorded in
a more natural perspective too.

Although there is no inbuilt charm in Elisabeth Söderström's voice, her
recording for EMI is stylishly sung and Richard Armstrong envelopes her
singing in rich orchestral sounds, clearly captured in spacious perspective.
A beautiful recording. Some five years earlier, Söderström's rendition of
these songs had been caught live, Dorati conducting. There the voice sounds
curiously less fresh and the orchestral sound is somewhat recessed.

I am almost sure that the best-seller recording in this discography is
Jessye Norman's. In a certain way, it is definitely a unique experience and
its most interesting feature is Norman's singing. Hers is the fullest toned
performance in the discography. In Beim Schlafgehen and in Im Abendrot, she
is particularly successful on creating a nightly atmosphere and her dark
mezza voce works beautifully. The "heavy weight" quality of the performance
is guaranteed by Kurt Masur's incredibly slooooooooooooow conducting,
especially in Im Abendrot. It is beyond defense and does no favour to the
structure of the piece. It is a miracle that Jessye Norman has such a long
breath. Any other singer would need oxygen... In a nutshell, keep it for
Norman's poetic and majestic performance, sung in firmest and warmest tones,
but Masur seems to be conducting this on Valium.

Masur's second recording has more fluent tempi and, although the New York
Philharmonic offers less rich sonorities than the Leipzig Gewandhaus, it
would have been a competitive issue if the recorded sound did not favour the
soloist the way it does - especially when Deborah Voigt offers one of the
less distinguished performances in the discography. The tone is downright
unglamourous and lackingflexibility. To make things worse, there is not a
drop of imagination to coax one into giving a second try.

Arleen Augér's performance is the exact opposite of Norman's. One could
rightly say that she is too light voiced for the pieces, but she disguises
it beautifully. As she's operating close to her limits and - more than
that - trying to show that she is at ease, interpretation is not the strong
point here, but she has lots of good taste and phrases with intelligence.
The nice point about this performance is the way with which the Vienna
Philharmonic was recorded. For the first time, the orchestra has pride of
place in the Four Last Songs. It is particularly enlightening because of the
extra richness of orchestral details. Previn is almost at the heart of it
when atmosphere is concerned, but I would have liked a more firm
understanding of structure and clearer phrasing.

Previn had previously recorded these songs in London, with Anneliese
Rothenberger, a bit past her prime. Although her performance largely follows
the Schwarzkopf-ian approach, there is a certain nervousness in her vocal
production at this stage of her career that doesn't make one inclined to a
second listening. Moreover, the recorded sound does not involve rich
orchestral sounds. So if you really want to sample Previn's grand
atmospherical and emotional conducting, you should really try the Telarc
recording with the crystalline Arleen Augér.

I still don't know why Elisabeth Meyer-Topsoe recording was so well received
by some reviewers. Clearly, her voice has the elements of the real thing -
it is a big, solid voice, but a bit on the hard side and lacking all the
breath support it needed. It has its moments of poor intonation. Worse than
that - sometimes she is rather careless about her phrasing. From the
interpretative side, it is not horrible. Sometimes, I feel that she wanted
to do better than this, but doesn't have the control over her voice to do
it. The orchestral playing and conducting are a bit tentative. It sounds
like those pianists who wait for the singer to reach the point where he
should be playing together with the singer and there is this "hole" in the
phrasing. The recorded sound is natural and pleasing.

When she was going to retire, Gundula Janowitz was asked which was the
soprano, according to her opinion, that would carry on the great Straussian
tradition. Her answer was "Felicity Lott". When the criteria are
sensitivity, musicianship and intelligence, Lott is always top grade.
However, although her voice has the necessary brightness, it is a bit on the
fragile sound. She is fearless enough to deal with the heavy demands on it,
but, exactly as Augér, as she is operating close to her limits, you may feel
that the vocal palette is a bit narrow. Anyway, she is in firmer voice than
Augér and her phrasing is too exquisite to be neglected. Järvi is a
sensitive conductor who knows how to deal with dynamics and orchestral
colouring, but his orchestra is not in the level of most of his competition.
Nevertheless, if you like horns, this is your recording. They are excellent
and always create a great effect when they appear. I wish that Lott's voice
was recorded in a more natural perspective. Anyway, this is a nice
performance. After listening to all these recordings in order to write this
text, it was able to caught my attention in a special way, maybe because of
Lott's spontaneous and direct performance and Järvi's beautiful orchestral
climaxes.

I don't know exactly what is wrong in Sinopoli's performance. Somehow, I
think it had to be better. Maybe if there wasn't such a strong competition,
it would have been a great recording, but, as things stand, it is a bit
subdued. The brushstrokes are really too soft and the impression doesn't
stay long in memory. Cheryl Studer is basically in good voice, since she
sings it easily and in firm tone, but the voice is a bit on the hard and
metallic side and, when she tries to scale down, it does sound flaccid.
Interpretatively, she doesn't show any particular insight - it is cleanly
done and that's it. The Staatskapelle Dresden plays beautifully, but
sometimes I wished that they could really PLAY it - it is too soft centered
to my taste somehow. The recorded sound is excellent.

Barbara Hendricks' attempt to sing the 4 last songs has more liabilities
than assets. Her voice is far from pure here, sustained notes lack focus and
sometimes she's a milimeter under the note. She seems to have a good idea of
how one should sing these songs and she has some touching details, but the
tone is far from pleasing in a general way. Moreover, her covering of vowels
is sometimes exaggerated - creating weird effects. Wolfgang Sawallisch's
conducting is beautiful. It has a flowing natural pace and the Philadelphia
Orchestra is in very good shape, but I think that the conductor was so
bewitched by the lush string section that woodwind was a bit left aside.

Renée Fleming's recording is a weird affair. I have the impression she said
to her conductor before the performance "Let's bet that I won't vary my tone
from the first note of the first song until the last note of the last
song?". She lost, because she decided to offer SOME interpretation in "ist
dies etwa der Tod?", fining down her tone to a vibrato-less note - an idea
borrowed from Popp. I am sorry to say that Renée should have been less shy
and copied the WHOLE of Popp's performance! It would have been really
better, for this recording is the most boring performance of Strauss'
exquisite songs. I haven't forgot to say that she is in beautiful voice
here. She is. It has this weird quality of getting out spotless of every
trap in Strauss' writing. She could be reading the newspaper while singing
it and the tone is always round, full and bright. One could say that I wasn't
so ill-humoured about... Augér... who doesn't offer lots of tone colouring
either, but Augér makes lots of points through word-pointing and charming
phrasing. Word-pointing is strange to Renée's singing here and, regarding
her phrasing, sometimes I have the impression she is singing an unending
series of half-notes. Eschenbach's conducting is no help at all. It is so
slow and homogeneous that it sounds like new age music. The Houston
orchestra is not bad and the recording is quite nice. I could say that the
sound engineers are the real artists here - soloist and conductor are
fulfilling their richly paid tasks.

After Fleming's phlegmatic performance, it is a pleasure to listen to Karita
Mattila's sensitive performance. Unlike Fleming, though, she is not in her
best shape. The tone lacks a bit of focus, but it is never ugly in the ear.
On the contrary, it is a flowing stream of warm and sensuous tone and she
sings in a very passionate way, with some individual and exquisite details.
It is most unfortunate that Abbado was in such a dispeptic manner in this
concert. It seems as if someone had had the bad idea of imitating the
Janowitz/Karajan, since it is again the Berlin Philharmonic. It is a rather
shapeless performance. In the same way Janowitz couldn't do alone the whole
work, I'm afraid Mattila cannot either. The recorded sound could be more
focused too.

It is funny that, in a promotional disc, given free in the Salzburg
Festival, Abbado, with the more modest Gustav Mahler Jugend Orchester, was
able to do everything he didn't with the Berlin Philharmonic. Here, he
offers a most sensitive and detailed account of this songs, with natural
well judged tempi and pleasing recorded sound. He also has the luck of
having a marvellous soloist in Melanie Diener, who not only is in creamiest
heavenliest voice, but also has a nicest ear for Strauss melodies, since her
phrasing is so caressing and sensitive. If "beauty" was the only criterion
to judge a performance of these songs, I am afraid Diener would have no
rivals. Unfortunately, this series was not released and I make a strongest
appeal to the Salzburg Festival and the ORF to RELEASE it! This is
definitely the best modern recording of these songs - I promise you'll make
money with it!

Charlotte Margiono's velvety soprano is taylor-made to this repertoire and
her stylish and sensitive performance might surprise some skeptical
CD-buyers. That said, compared to some of her most distinguished rivals in
this repertoire, the last ounce of imagination necessary to single her out
in memory might be lacking. Although Edo de Waart's general approach is
stylish and sensitive, he lets sometimes proceedings sag in a way the Radio
Philharmonic Orchestra Holland is not able to sustain. In any case, this is
one of the best among recent recordings of these songs.

It is most curious to compare Charlotte Margiono to Sharon Sweet in her
recording with Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos. While Margiono's soprano is evenly
produced and elegantly handled, Sharon Sweet's inspired account of these
songs might be an acquired taste, considering this soprano's ungainly if
resourceful voice. The London Symphony is at its best and Frühbeck de Burgos
offers unpretentious and efficient conducting - kappellmeisterlich in the
good sense of the word.

Soile Isokoski and Marek Janowski's performance released by Ondine changed a
bit the state of matters in this discography. First of all, Janowski's
conducting gathers every little quality great Straussian conducting needs -
it has the structural sense and clarity of Böhm, the sense of atmosphere and
flexibility of Tennstedt plus great orchestral playing. His approach is
different from del Mar's exemplary performance, for example - because he
concentrates on the "Lieder" aspect. He scores his points on spontaneity and
intimacy and is particularly moving for that. It is Janowski's philosophy to
work in team with his Tonmeister and this shows here in every second - it
has a perfect balance between soloist and orchestra, plus an almost
supernatural clarity (enhanced by the perfect articulation in every section
of his orchestra). All that without the artifficialities of many modern
recordings. Thank God Janowski had a soloist as del Mar didn't - Soile
Isokoski, who, in this disc, is instantly promoted to the position of the
leading Straussian singer of her generation. Let's start with the voice. It
has an uncanny similiarity with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf's, but it has its
touches of Ileana Cotrubas, with its shimmering delicacy and smoothness.
However, she is technically superior to the former and richer in tone than
the latter. From the interpretative point of view, she is unique. As much as
Janowski, she avoids transforming it into big operatic singing, but sing
them as she would sing a Schubert Lied, with naturalness of vocal
production, directness and imaginative use of tone colouring - not to
mention a warm-hearted and elegant approach throughtout the whole disc.
Isokoski and Janowski are also wonderful in the other songs of the disc, all
of them entirely in keeping with their unaffected, musicianly and poetic
style.

Although Mark Elder's is a live recording from the Bridgewater Hall,
Manchester, it features crystalline recorded sound. The balance is too
favourable to the soloist, but the orchestral sound is not recessed - and
the Hallé Orchestra is led to an inspired non-sentimental forward-moving
performance by the conductor. Anne Schwanewilms's overpoised jugendlich
dramatisch soprano might sound unspontaneous in the first listening, but I
have the impression her bright almost vibrato-free tonal quality and
carefree approach to the vocal intricacies concocted by Strauss might
procure her some fans. Moreover, her natural deliver of the German text is
admirable.

Rodrigo Maffei Libonati

With Rodrigo's permission, his homepage is as follows. If he writes as
lucidly and as interestingly as above, it should be well worth viewing for
those interested in the human voice.

http://www.geocities.com/rmlibonati/index.html

I've taken a mere tad of effort, if only because I love Richard Strauss's
music so much.

Ray H
Taree, NSW


Andy Evans

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Dec 22, 2006, 2:52:58 PM12/22/06
to

TareeDawg wrote:
> "Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1166709751.0...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> >> > I rather like the pretentious Fraulien. Am I suffering from some brain
> >> > disease I should know about?
>
>
> For Bassey fans, maybe this link will be of interest :-
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Apr05/Mahler_Strauss_Basey.htm
>
"In September she assumed a vulnerable fragility, her fragrant voice
seeming subdued as if in mourning, heightened by the silver toned
violin solo of Clio Gould."

If this is Clio Gould, leader of the London Sinfonietta and RPO, then
she must have been about 2 months old in 1955. I can't find when she
was born, but I didn't think she was that old.

aest...@hotmail.com

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Dec 22, 2006, 5:44:39 PM12/22/06
to

Rothenberger recorded the 4 LAST SONGS accompanied by Previn.

Richard Loeb

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Dec 22, 2006, 5:56:01 PM12/22/06
to
<aest...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166827479.8...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...

Yes I saw her as Lulu in the famous Hamburg production - it was very
effective "live" but much less so on recordings ; the DG with Lear that came
out at the same time was better re: the title character. Richard


david...@aol.com

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Dec 22, 2006, 8:30:08 PM12/22/06
to

Richard Loeb wrote:

> Yes I saw her as Lulu in the famous Hamburg production - it was very
> effective "live" but much less so on recordings ; the DG with Lear that came
> out at the same time was better re: the title character.

I don't agree at all, and neither do two Lulu-phile friends of mine
(one of whom is a regular here) who prevailed on me to pick up the
Rothenberger performance when it was issued on CD a few years ago. I
grew up on the Lear-Fischer-Dieskau-Boehm recording and I'm well
acquainted with Silja-Dohnanyi and Stratas-Boulez as well, although I
haven't kept up with subsequent recordings of the completed opera.
(I'd still like to hear the very first recording for the sake of Ilona
Steingruber's Lulu, although, according to all accounts, the
performance as a whole is a mess. Steingruber is also Maderna's Lulu
in the live performance on Opera d'Oro that I've just ordered from
Allegro Imports.) I've also seen Lulu at Chicago Lyric and the Met,
and Rothenberger comes closer than any soprano I've heard to being
exactly the right vocal type for Lulu: she's something like a real
coloratura although with a bit more vocal heft than, say, Lily Pons.
More to the point, she's got more personality than a flock of Evelyn
Lear's. And, unlike Teresa Stratas, she's capable of acting coquettish
without sounding depraved. In short, both vocally and temperamentally
she's a perfect fit for the role.

-david gable

david...@aol.com

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Dec 22, 2006, 8:31:17 PM12/22/06
to

aest...@hotmail.com wrote:


> Rothenberger recorded the 4 LAST SONGS accompanied by Previn.

I think I was vaguely aware of that. I really should pick it up. I
suppose it's long gone.

-david gable

Charles Milton Ling

unread,
Dec 22, 2006, 10:41:44 PM12/22/06
to
david...@aol.com wrote:
> Bob Lombard wrote:
>
>
>> You are there - except you need to hear Jessye Norman in them.
>
> Where you also have to endure Masur's absurd and record breaking slow
> tempi, tempi far slower than Furtwaengler used at the world premiere
> with Flagstad or Boehm used in the first studio recording with Decca.
> One reviewer greeted the Norman/Masur release by wondering why each new
> recording of the Four Last used slower tempi than the previous. Masur
> broke the record for absurdly slow with this set. And he isn't
> remotely interesting.
>
> I certainly prefer the forthright Miss Norman to the pretentious
> Frauelein Schwarzkopf.
>
> -david gable
>
Fräulein (Frauelein sounds a bit mediaeval). Of course Schwarzkopf is
pretentious. That is how she made a living. And in Strauss, I don't
object.

--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria

Charles Milton Ling

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Dec 22, 2006, 10:48:46 PM12/22/06
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> "pgaron" <pga...@my-deja.com> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:1166729323.2...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Andy Evans wrote:
>>
>>> Can't believe how beautiful they are - listening to Schwarzkopf in Four
>>> Last Songs. Where should I go from here, or have I "arrived" already?
>> One of my favorite moments in the 4LS is that orchestral interlude in
>> the third song, where the first-chair violinist gets to play a solo.
>> The music, which seems to float in the air above the orchestra, is
>> sublime.
>>
>> If Strauss wrote the 4LS as a final love letter to sopranos, then he
>> certainly added an affectionate parting note to the violinists as well.
>
> And in the horn solo, to his father, whom he expected to see again soon.
>

Touchingly said, Matthew. Yes.

TareeDawg

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Dec 23, 2006, 3:06:41 AM12/23/06
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"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166817178.2...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...


Dame Shirley will be 70 on Jan 8th next year. Born in Tiger Bay, Cardiff, 6
Jan 1937. She is crackin' on, but still presumably wowing them, and packing
them in.

Ray H
Taree, NSW


TareeDawg

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Dec 23, 2006, 3:09:37 AM12/23/06
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"TareeDawg" <rayt...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ls5jh.12141$HU.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...


Born 8 Jan 1937.
Silly typo.

Ray H
Taree, NSW


Andy Evans

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Dec 23, 2006, 8:17:09 AM12/23/06
to

> Born 8 Jan 1937.
> Silly typo.
>
> Ray H
> Taree, NSW

No, I mean Clio Gould!

aest...@hotmail.com

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Dec 23, 2006, 9:48:03 PM12/23/06
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The reviewer in SONG ON RECORD didn't care for it.

borisgo...@yahoo.com

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Dec 26, 2006, 11:56:19 PM12/26/06
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