Furtwangler records!
Viktor A Lundberg
Hi!
I've just bought my first orchestral recordings with Furtwangler, the
Brahms symphonies on EMI and Wagner orchestral music on the same label.
The Brahms was an shattering experience for me, especially the fourth.
Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
Best wishes:
Viktor A Lundberg
Michael Weston
Furtwangler excelled in Brahms 1, but you wouldn't guess it from the EMI
set. The issue from Hamburg on the Tahra label ha sound superior to any
of the disks you have mentioned, and it is surely the 2nd best performance
I've ever heard (I prefer Furt's BPO '52 performance, but this one has
spotty sound, and is impossible to find).
If you are sympathetic to the 1st, I urge you to get your hands on this
disk!
michael
Viktor A Lundberg (v-...@algonet.se)
wrote: : Hi!
Sivarama Venkatesan
In article <330864...@algonet.se>,
Viktor A Lundberg <v-...@algonet.se> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I've just bought my first orchestral recordings with Furtwangler, the
>Brahms symphonies on EMI and Wagner orchestral music on the same label.
>The Brahms was an shattering experience for me, especially the fourth.
>
>Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
>
>Best wishes:
>
>Viktor A Lundberg
There are others who are much better qualified to make
recommendations, but anyway here are some Furtwangler
performances I've enjoyed:
1) Beethoven 9th from 1942 (Grammofono/M&A)
Many here prefer the 1951 Bayreuth (EMI) or the 1954
Lucerne (M&A).
2) Beethoven 5th and 7th (1950's) (EMI)
These are studio recordings in decent sound.
The 5th is a good, sedate performance. (I love the sound of
the double basses in the 3rd movement!) The 7th is excellent.
Recently I got a Dante/LYS CD with the 1943 5th and 7th at Tower.
This has poorer sound, may be harder to find, and is more expensive
than the EMI one, but both performances are terrific.
3) Beethoven 4th/5th (1943) and Coriolan (1944) (Grammofono)
The slow movement of the 4th is the best I've heard. (This is
the same 5th as on the Dante CD.)
4) Beethoven 3rd/Leonore III (1944) (Preiser)
The 6th on EMI is fine, but I prefer other performances.
I don't really like Furtwangler's Beethoven 1st/8th. Haven't
heard the 2nd.
5) Mozart's 39th sym. (Iron Needle)
This is just great! Comes with a Beethoven violin concerto from
1944 (Eric Rohn, soloist).
6) Brahms 1st (Tahra)
This is definitely better in every way (except for the price) than
the one in the EMI set.
Venkat
Tom Moran
v-...@algonet.se writes:
<snip>
>
>Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
>
>Best wishes:
>
>Viktor A Lundberg
There are a number of Wagner recordings by Furtwangler -- nearly all of
them worth getting.
There's an live Act III of Die Walkure from London in 1937 that's
available on a couple of different labels (I have it on MYTO). The sound
is not exactly fabulous, but it's got Kristen Flagstad in her prime as
Brunnhilde. But the mike is placed oddly (in the middle of the string
section, from the sound of it), so the balance is way off. It takes some
getting used to.
His Tristan and Isolde from the 50s is of course considered one of the
greatest opera recordings ever -- a must for anyone's collection.
I used to have his Scala Ring Cycle from 1950 on Hunt, but I've heard
(from Henry Fogel, who should know) that the Music & Arts release is
preferable, both in terms of sonics and price.
His RAI Ring Cycle from 1953 or so is available from EMI at about $90,
and is worth the price. Not counting the Krauss Ring Cycle, it's the best
bargain you can get for a Ring Cycle.
Then he has a studio Walkure from 1954 which, although not as highly
touted as his Tristan, I would recommend.
Music & Arts also has a CD of excerpts of a Furtwangler Ring from 1952.
It's only excerpts, and it's pricey, but I'd go for it.
Tom Moran
Joseph Rizzo
On Mon, 17 Feb 1997 14:59:59 +0100, Viktor A Lundberg
<v-...@algonet.se> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
The two sets you bought are great. The Wagner set is infinitely
satisfying. The Brahms set is not the best available, although it is
close. You may want to supplement this set with the Brahms 1st below.
Mozart: Don Giovanni: EMI
Beethoven: 9th Symphony: wartime recording
this can be found on 3 labels. Tahra has the best transfer, but
the most expensive. M&A is between the two. Grammophono2000 is the
cheapest.
Beethoven: 4th and 5th symphony: wartime recording
I would have to go with the Grammophono2000 recording of these, with
the great overture between the two.
Brahms: 1st symphony
1951 recording with NDR symphony orchestra. Can be found on Tahra
and Memories.
Weber: Die Frieshultz
on GALA, no libretto though.
Schubert: 9th symphony
on DG.
>
>Best wishes:
>
>Viktor A Lundberg
Joseph Rizzo
------------
If you are going to dine with the devil you'll need a long spoon.
-Jack Palance (Cyborg2)
James C.S. Liu
>I've just bought my first orchestral recordings with Furtwangler, the
>Brahms symphonies on EMI and Wagner orchestral music on the same label.
>The Brahms was an shattering experience for me, especially the fourth.
Always good to know we Furtwaengler fans aren't alone ...
>Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
There are a few places you can turn. One is a consideration of
some of Furtwaengler's recordings, along with a long discography, at
Neil Tingley's home page (main page: http://www.music.demon.co.uk/).
(I've written some of the stuff there, though God knows what!)
A second resource is a Furtwaengler Society. There is a society in
the United States that offers writings and reviews of WF discs,
discounts on some of his recordings, newsletters, and generally
promotes his legacy. They have a home page at
<http://www.sonic.net/raillard/wfsa/>, though I don't know if they
handle international memberships or not.
Henry Fogel is the unspoken doyen of Furtwaengler mavens on this
group, and is another useful resource to tap (you can start by running
a DejaNews search on r.m.c.r for Author Henry Fogel and Furtwaengler
in the subject line). Me, I love that EMI 2-CD set of Wagner bleeding
chunks, though you might want to try some of Furtwaengler's work with
complete Wagner operas, also. I've heard tell that there are better
Brahms performances than the ones in the EMI box (particularly a
recently issued set on Music and Arts).
Beethoven is a dicier issue, not least because different people
respond to different things. Here are some personal faves (I don't
respond to WF's 8th, and I think there's only one performance extant
of the 2nd, which isn't very good):
Symphony 1: 1950's Vienna PO studio recording on EMI (coupled with a
lovely Eroica)
Symphony 3: 1950's Vienna PO studio disc on EMI; also a more electric,
but less well recorded 1944 Vienna PO recording on various labels
Symphony 4: I most like the 1940's wartime Berlin PO performance on DG
Symphonies 5 and 7: Try the 1950's studio disc with the Vienna PO
again; there's also a wartime DG disc that was out at one point.
Symphony 9: I most like the Lucerne performance of 1954, though there
are also many advocates for the Bayreuth 1951 concert (EMI) and the
hysterically intense wartime Berlin PO concert (various)
Violin Concerto: I'm most moved by his live concert with Yehudi
Menuhin, available on EMI
Piano Concertos: tops on the list are his wartime Berlin PO
performance with Conrad Hansen (Music and Arts) and a magisterial
"Emperor" with Edwin Fischer and the Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI.
Fidelio? (I can't make a recommendation here)
Furtwaengler also had a marvelous way with assorted Beethoven
overtures, including Egmont and Leonore #3, though I can't discuss
comparative performances here.
There has also been a thread here on the first five Furtwaengler
discs to get, which might be worth perusing. Oh, and no Furtwaengler
collection is complete without some Bruckner. I am most fond of his
wartime Berlin PO Bruckner 5th, though there are also devotees of his
way with the 7th, 8th, and 9th, and what survives of a wartime
performance of the 6th. Hope that gets you off to a start.
--
/James C.S. Liu |"Applying computer technology is simply
jame...@yale.edu | finding the right wrench to pound in
New Haven, Connecticut| the correct screw." -- Anonymous
My opinions have nothing to do with my employer!
Lee/Nik Sandlin
In article <330864...@algonet.se>,>Hi!
>
>I've just bought my first orchestral recordings with Furtwangler, the
>Brahms symphonies on EMI and Wagner orchestral music on the same label.
>The Brahms was an shattering experience for me, especially the fourth.
>
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
>
We've just been having a thread on this over on ramc.recordings, but when
has a Furtwangler fan ever been reluctant to make recommendations?
So: the EMI Brahms set is a pretty good one, but it doesn't contain his
single best Brahms performance: the 1951 Hamburg 1st symphony, which is
available on Tahra (it's also in the new Music & Arts Brahms set).
Beethoven: WF never formally recorded a Beethoven cycle, and the two sets
you mention have a lot of problems. I would recommend them only for people
who have to have absolutely everything WF did. With WF's Beethoven,
there's really two big groups of essential recordings: the wartime and the
postwar. The postwar performances are more stately and beautiful; the
wartime have an almost hysterical intensity.
Wartime:
Eroica (on several labels, including Preiser and M&A).
4th through 7th -- M&A has a magnificent set of wartime radio broadcasts
(but do NOT get M&A's similarly-packaged postwar Beethoven symphonies
set).
9th -- this famous and bizarre performance is out on several labels,
including M&A.
Postwar:
3rd, 5th, 6th -- if you can find it, get the Tahra "Tribute to Wilhelm
Furtwangler" set, which has great performances in absolutely gorgeous
sound.
9th -- my own favorite is the 1954 Lucerne performance, also on Tahra.
There are also good performances on EMI -- I think the 5th & 7th are
pretty good.
Wagner: I very much like the set you mention, and -- if you've got the
money -- you should certainly get his Tristan on EMI. There's also the
Ring, of course, but the issues about which performance and recording to
get are just too complicated to go over briefly.
Hope that helps,
L
PGoldst515
While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
much better the 1-disc DGG compilation of similar material with the BPO
(415 663 is the catalog number). The DGG disc features the greatest
Tannhauser Overture I have ever heard or ever expect to hear (recorded
5/1/51 by the RAI in Rome). I also find the DGG performances of the
Meistersinger Overture, Tristan und Isolde Prelude and Liebestod, and
Parsifal Good Friday Music on the DGG disc better than their counterparts
on EMI.
Paul Goldstein
Yi-kuan Jong
In article <19970219135...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
PGoldst515 <pgold...@aol.com> wrote:
/While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
/much better the 1-disc DGG compilation of similar material with the BPO
/(415 663 is the catalog number). The DGG disc features the greatest
/Tannhauser Overture I have ever heard or ever expect to hear (recorded
/5/1/51 by the RAI in Rome). I also find the DGG performances of the
/Meistersinger Overture, Tristan und Isolde Prelude and Liebestod, and
/Parsifal Good Friday Music on the DGG disc better than their counterparts
/on EMI.
/Paul Goldstein
Unfortunatey, it is out of print for a long time..
regards.
joey
PGoldst515
While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
Paul Goldstein
Michael Weston
Ah, rub it in! This is one of the Furtwangler disks which is IMPOSSIBLE
to find. Much of it has not been reissued any place else, so it is indeed
something to look for. However, luck plays the key role. I've managed to
find most of DG's OP disks, but this one I haven't seen.
Anybody want to sell theirs??
micahel
PGoldst515
(pgold...@aol.com) wrote:
: While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
HenryFogel
In article <330864...@algonet.se>,
Viktor A Lundberg <v-...@algonet.se> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I've just bought my first orchestral recordings with Furtwangler, the
>Brahms symphonies on EMI and Wagner orchestral music on the same label.
>The Brahms was an shattering experience for me, especially the fourth.
>
>Now I wonder if someone could recommend some other cd's with
>Furtwangler. I'm really interested in his Beethoven symphonies(there
>seems to be two cycles with him, one on EMI and one on Music&Arts) but
>any recommendation would be greatly appreciated. Also comments on the
>Brahms and Wagner that I already have would really be interesting
>because I don't know anyone who has them but me...
>
There is no Beethoven set that I can recommend -- the EMI and Music & Arts
sets do not really collect the finest Furtwangler performances of each
symphony. With Furtwangler, there are often many many live performance
recordings floating around, and it is best to search them out disc by disc
rather than try for the convenience of a box. Let me make a few
Furtwangler recommendations for you to start you on your way.
Beethoven - Symphony #3 - either the 1944 wartime performance (incredible
intensity - constricted, but listenable, sound - best transfers on Preiser
90251, or Bayer da Capo BR 200 002CD; acceptable transfer Music & Arts CD
814. Or the December 8, 1952 performance found in Tahra FURT 1008-1011
in great sound. If you get that Tahra set, you will also get fine
Furtwangler performances in great sound (some of the best sound of any
Furtwangler performances) of the Beethoven 6 and 5 from 1954, Schubert 9th
from 1953, and a variety of shorter works. This is a superb set if you
can find it.
Beethoven - Symphony #9 - Either the Bayreuth 1951 performance on various
EMI CD releases, or the 1942 Berlin wartime reading -- absolutely
ferocious in its intensity -- on Music and Arts CD 653.
If you get Tahra FURT 1008-1011 recommended above, that gives you
Beethoven 3, 5, 6 and now 9 -- which is a great start on Beethoven.
Other recordings to try to find.
Schubert 9/Haydn 88 - on DG Originals
Wagner - Tristan and Isolde - complete opera, EMI
Bruckner - Symphony #9 - on Music & Arts
I think that's a good startup list.
Henry Fogel
James C.S. Liu
On 20 Feb 1997 00:09:36 GMT, pgold...@aol.com (PGoldst515) wrote:
>While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
>much better the 1-disc DGG compilation of similar material with the BPO
>(415 663 is the catalog number). The DGG disc features the greatest
>Tannhauser Overture I have ever heard or ever expect to hear (recorded
>5/1/51 by the RAI in Rome). I also find the DGG performances of the
>Meistersinger Overture, Tristan und Isolde Prelude and Liebestod, and
>Parsifal Good Friday Music on the DGG disc better than their counterparts
>on EMI.
I am aware of this set, and have owned a copy of it in the past. I
abandoned it in favor of the EMI set for several reasons. One,
there's more music in the EMI compilation including a stirring
Dutchman Overture; a lovely Parsifal Prelude; powerful renditions of
the Ride of the Valkyries and Siegfried's Rhine Journey; and the
recording of Brunnhilde's Immolation with Kirsten Flagstad. Two, we
apparently disagree on the relative quality of the performances; I
found the Meistersinger and Tannhaeuser music more compelling in the
EMI renditions (though I'd argue this might be a case of splitting
hairs). Three, the recorded sound, subjectively, is superior in the
EMI set. This makes it an easy choice for me, though as always,
tastes vary. Regards,
Russell W. Miller
Since nobody has mentioned this one yet:
Furtwängler: Symphony No. 2. VPO, 22 Feb. 1953. Orfeo C 375 941 B.
I do not have his DG recording of this work for comparison (issued on
CD in Japan only AFAIK), though I did hear it on LP some years back.
But since this live recording appeared it has been regarded, based on
the reviews I've seen, as WF's best version of this symphony. The
recording is fine too, for the date. Recommended to anyone who is
curious about Furtwängler the composer.
Russell W. Miller
r...@miller.mv.com
gggg...@gmail.com
> On 20 Feb 1997 00:09:36 GMT, pgold...@aol.com (PGoldst515) wrote:
>
> >While I like the EMI 2-disc set of Wagner overtures and chunks, I like
> >much better the 1-disc DGG compilation of similar material with the BPO
> >(415 663 is the catalog number). The DGG disc features the greatest
> >Tannhauser Overture I have ever heard or ever expect to hear (recorded
> >5/1/51 by the RAI in Rome). I also find the DGG performances of the
> >Meistersinger Overture, Tristan und Isolde Prelude and Liebestod, and
> >Parsifal Good Friday Music on the DGG disc better than their counterparts
> >on EMI.
>
> I am aware of this set, and have owned a copy of it in the past. I
> abandoned it in favor of the EMI set for several reasons. One,
> there's more music in the EMI compilation including a stirring
> Dutchman Overture; a lovely Parsifal Prelude; powerful renditions of
Concerning his last recording:
- The third act of Wagner's Die Walküre begins with the famous "Ride of the Valkyries" (often heard as an orchestral excerpt) in which the swirling excitement builds to wave after wave of thrilling climaxes. As eight warrior-sisters arrive at a rocky summit and boast of their exploits, the effect is indeed thrilling, with the sopranos belting out their ecstatic lines over the thrashing full orchestra. But Furtwängler recognized the inherent problem with playing this scene at full boil, a temptation which no other conductor seems able to resist: the remaining hour of the act, in which all of the important thematic action occurs, can seem awfully lax by comparison.
To Furtwängler, the "Ride of the Valkyries," as exciting as it can be, must yield to the far more serious business of Act III: the battle of wills between Brunhilde, the errant oldest daughter, and her father Wotan, the head of the gods. In a long, deeply moving scene, she begs forgiveness which he cannot grant without destroying his own authority, and ultimately is punished with banishment and mortality. Furtwängler deliberately forgoes the initial thrill for a more valid overall dramatic progression.
His recording heralds the drama perfectly, both in tempo and in texture. He begins the "Ride" at a brisk pace, but then gradually decelerates so that Brunhilde arrives not on a buoyant note of ecstasy but crushed by impending tragedy. The feeling is reinforced by the orchestral balances: shimmering and nearly devoid of bass at the outset but then gradually deepening so that the climax is mired in a heavy sludge of sound. As with the Beethoven, there is nothing in the score to suggest this; rather, Furtwängler reconceives the score in highly individual terms in order to elicit Wagner's overall meaning.
http://www.classicalnotes.net/features/furtwangler.html