Your favourite recordings of the Bach Chaconne.

[Mandryka]

You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

[Bob Lombard]

On 10/17/2013 1:25 AM, Mandryka wrote:
> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Francescatti, Tenenbaum.

[Bozo]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Alicia DeLarrocha,Mostly Mozart Decca lp

[Mandryka]

I was very glad to hear Mila Tenenbaum, who I didn't know before. I like her style. I don't care for Francescatti's performance on doremi so much - I don't much like Gypsy violin playing in Bach, but if I want it I'd go the whole hog and play Suk rather than Francescatti I think.

[Mandryka]

I don't like the Busoni transcription at all, not even when Larrocha plays it. Too much fireworks. The Brahms transcription is much more my sort of thing. Or Leonhardt's transcription.

[John Wiser]

"Bozo" <steve...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8dd5e5d4-6b71-4fb9...@googlegroups.com...

> On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
>> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.
>
> Alicia DeLarrocha,Mostly Mozart Decca lp
>

Versatile!

jdw

[laraine]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Curtis Performs has a performance from Bella Hristova that they're using for one of their online classes. Unfortunately, I've had a little trouble with buffering or something at that site, but it's a strong performance, going for the angst:

http://curtisperforms.curtis.edu/

C.

[Alan Cooper]

Mandryka <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:80f5baf8-1df5-497a...@googlegroups.com:

Have you heard
Bretislav Novotny? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRpXB29O-Aw)
Sandor Vegh? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voR24WFpqCE)

Definitely non-Gypsy.

AC

[laraine]

I had more luck watching it on Google Chrome than on Firefox.

C.

[graham]

"laraine" <lara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c3f92c0-323f-4a5c...@googlegroups.com...

Too balletic!

Try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-Zqz7mNjQ

or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75X-SDKq1Y

Graham

[Mandryka]

Heifetz misses a trick or two, the performance treats the music as swagger and nothing but swagger. Life's too short.

[Mandryka]

I enjoyed the Bretislav Novotny, another name I hadn't heard of before, and who I will definitely explore some more. I'll listen to Vegh later.

One thing I want to say at the outset. I'm convinced by the theory that this chaconne -- in fact the whole partita -- is music about death, grief. The performances which have moved me the most bring out this in the music.

I like Felix Ayo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oScygYHg740

His set of solo Bach is available from Arkvmusic. There's a simple honest expressiveness which I find moving. A

And there's a very romantic performance on Baroque violin from Helene Schmitt which I think is really intriguing, she has her own ideas about rhythmic rubato. It's on spotify if anyone cares to try.

[JohnGavin]

Nothing but swagger??? That is utterly ridiculous - everyone is entitled to their opinion but that is inexcusable bashing. JH may not be the first choice for many, but I think both his recordings - the RCA mono and the 70s TV version have nobility, an amazing line and technique.

As far as the Bach-Busoni, I am a big DeLarrocha fan, but nobody comes close to Michelangeli (1948) IMHO.

[Alex Brown]

On Thursday, 17 October 2013 06:25:33 UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Milstein, in a 1953 Library of Congress Recital (available on a Bridge CD).

- Alex.

[Alan Cooper]

Mandryka <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:6c234bd6-a80c-4d80...@googlegroups.com:

> On Thursday, 17 October 2013 19:06:08 UTC+1, Alan Cooper wrote:
>> Mandryka <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in
>>
>> news:80f5baf8-1df5-497a...@googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I was very glad to hear Mila Tenenbaum, who I didn't know before. I
>>
>> > like her style. I don't care for Francescatti's performance on
>> > doremi
>>
>> > so much - I don't much like Gypsy violin playing in Bach, but if I
>>
>> > want it I'd go the whole hog and play Suk rather than Francescatti
>> > I
>>
>> > think.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you heard
>>
>> Bretislav Novotny? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRpXB29O-Aw)
>>
>> Sandor Vegh? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voR24WFpqCE)
>>
>>
>>
>> Definitely non-Gypsy.
>>
>>
>>
>> AC
>
> I enjoyed the Bretislav Novotny, another name I hadn't heard of
> before, and who I will definitely explore some more. I'll listen to
> Vegh later.
>
> One thing I want to say at the outset. I'm convinced by the theory
> that this chaconne -- in fact the whole partita -- is music about
> death, grief. The performances which have moved me the most bring out
> this in the music.

Oh yes, I hear anguish in this music and gravitate towards performances
that bring it to the fore. I'm waiting to see what you think of Vegh.
Interesting that both he and Novotny (see under Prague Quartet) were
better known for chsmber music than as soloists.

AC

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Years ago I was fortunate to hear Milstein play it live. Audience was stunned. Of course, in my Iowa, that may have been the work's Iowa premiere.

[aaro...@gmail.com]

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's
> second partita for solo violin.

My first time hearing the Busoni version of this piece was a Mikhail Pletnev performance in Tsukuba, Japan. I didn't have anything to compare it to, but I remember being completely mesmerized. I haven't found a recording yet that lives up to that memory.

-P

[Al Eisner]

On Thu, 17 Oct 2013, Mandryka wrote:

> I don't like the Busoni transcription at all, not even when Larrocha plays it. Too much fireworks. The Brahms transcription is much more my sort of thing. Or Leonhardt's transcription.

Fleisher's recording of the Brahms is very good.

For the original, I've always had a soft spot for Szigeti's, in the
Vanguard set -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0yYRT3i6mk --
intense and varied, although this was past his prime. I find I can
successfully ignore vibrato issues, but ymmv.

But I just listened to Novotny (AC's suggestion) for the first time --
also intense, heartfelt, wonderful

Re. Szigeti's Bach, I've never heard his earlier recordings -- I'm
guessing that an Opus Kura disk which includes Sonatas 1-2 (but
no Partitas) is of an earlier vintage -- Amazon ASIN B000083F42.
(I don't see it on the Opus Kura web site, however, so I don't
know the details.)
--

Al Eisner

[operafan]

Gregory Fulkerson
Lara St. John's first version (NOT the one in her 2-disc set)
Grumiaux
Jaap Schroeder on a long-out-out-print Smithsonian CD

[laraine]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:58:00 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
> "laraine" wrote in message

>
> >
> > On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
>
> >> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo
>
> >> violin.
>
> >
>
> > Curtis Performs has a performance from Bella Hristova that they're using
>
> > for one of their online classes. Unfortunately, I've had a little trouble
>
> > with buffering or something at that site, but it's a strong performance,
>
> > going for the angst:
>
> >
>
> > http://curtisperforms.curtis.edu/
>
> >
>
> Too balletic!

Nice interp in parts though. Her rubato sounds a little like this Francescatti one, though his line is longer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u6QS22oLoQ

>
>
>
> Try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q-Zqz7mNjQ

Heifetz - that's quite an outstanding interp, with vivid contrasts and elegant style.

>
>
>
> or: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75X-SDKq1Y

Milstein- Very brilliant sound, and moving too, esp. in first part. Looks like he's in his 50's, not 80's.

Lazar Berman as a powerful example on piano - I think Bach would have liked this on modern keyboard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DI5inJzrME

C.

>
>
>
> Graham

[Mark Obert-Thorn]

Stokowski/Philadelphia (1934). I'm surprised nobody mentioned one of his transcription recordings yet.

Heifetz (1942) - This is one of the previously unissued recordings on the last three discs of the Heifetz Original Jackets set. Apparently, at the time only the Chaconne was recorded. I started playing it just to sample what the transfer sounded like, and I was instantly hooked and had to listen through to the end. It's intense.

Mark O-T

[Alan Cooper]

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in
news:alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu:

Szigeti recorded all three of the Sonatas commercially prior to the
Vanguard set: G Minor in 1931; A Minor in 1933; and C Major in 1949. The
two earlier recordings (Biddulph LAB 153 or the Opus Kura issue you
mention) are fabulous, the third (on Biddulph 80217) much less so. Late
'40s live performances of the first two sonatas + the E major Partita (#
3) were issued on M&A, but I don't have those.

Concerning the Chaconne, Wikipedia reports, "In 1905, at the age of
thirteen, Szigeti made his Berlin debut playing Bach's Chaconne in D
minor, Ernst's Concerto in F-sharp minor, and Paganini's Witches Dance."
I don't think a recording survives :-)

AC

[Mandryka]

I think Pletnev's Bach/Busoni isn't at all bad. As I said I'm not so keen on the music, but I think the best I've heard was from Demidenko.

There's also a very late one from Michelangeli, Bregenz 1988. Much more interesting IMO than his earlier recodings of it.

[Mandryka]

Oh and I forgot one of the very best, Cherkassky (HMV)

[Mandryka]

I thought the Stokowski was outstanding -- he seems to have intuited the HIP idea that the music is the expression of grief.

Can you pass me a link to the Heifetz -- spotify or youtube prefereably? I can't find it.

[Mandryka]

I saw Fleisher play it. The recording I like the most is Sokolov's, Schwetzingen 2.5.2003

[jeffc]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:25:33 AM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:
> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Carnegie-Jorge-Bolet/dp/B00000E6E5

and Heifetz

[max197...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:53:04 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:

> As far as the Bach-Busoni, I am a big DeLarrocha fan, but nobody comes close to Michelangeli (1948) IMHO.

It's hard to imagine anyone saying this who has listened to de Larrocha's *first* recording from 1970's, which splits the Earth in half, and which has never been transferred to cd AFAIK. Maybe you're thinking of her later digital recording?

-Max

[Alan Cooper]

max197...@gmail.com wrote in
news:c9b26532-4c51-4771...@googlegroups.com:

Don't know about splitting the earth, but I love all of AdL's Bach. We
heard her perform the Chaconne live in NY around the time the first
recording was made, and the thrill of the experience remains vivid in my
memory.

Btw, has anyone mentioned this site, which collects a batch of youtube
videos of the Chaconne, mainly transcriptions:
http://www.forte-piano-pianissimo.com/Bach-BusoniChaconne.html

AC

[jtemp...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 18, 2013 1:27:52 AM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:
> I think Pletnev's Bach/Busoni isn't at all bad. As I said I'm not so keen on the music, but I think the best I've heard was from Demidenko.
>
>
>
> There's also a very late one from Michelangeli, Bregenz 1988. Much more interesting IMO than his earlier recodings of it.

That one comes in at 15:48. To me it seems a bit tired compared to the tremendous energy of the 1973 performance in the 10-CD Aura box (13:55). I also like Larrocha (about the same timing) and Weissenberg (13:07) on his set of "Great Bach Transcriptions"... not to mention Narciso Yepes' guitar performance on London CS6201 from the early 60s. As for violin, my vote goes to Milstein on DG, but I haven't heard his earlier EMI recording.

[Mandryka]

Energy may not be good idea in this music, IMO it isn't. You just end up with a piece of bravura. I've been listening to Cherkassky HMV all day and I think it may be the best I have ever heard, because of the lack of "energy"

As far as this 1970 Larrocha, Max's description makes me a ver sceptical, but we shall never know unless someone uploads it somewhere. Moving heaven and earth sounds like a negative thing to me in this music

[Mandryka]

Here's the 1973 Larrocha recording

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVrKiUcOKJE

[Al Eisner]

Thanks. That Biddulph with #3 is available at Berkshire, but it's not
far in time from the complete set, and the 30's performances draw my
interest much more. I should probably get that Opus Kura CD while
it is still available from Amazon. [By the way, Amazon lists another
Szigeti Opus Kura, ASIN B0007TKHE8 -- only a little Bach on it -- for
which there are two Marketplace choices: at $16.02 or $5659.90.
Hmmmm....]

I've since listened to the Vegh for which you provided a youtube link.
My snap reaction was that it was edgier, perhaps more dramatic, less
flowing than the passionate Novotny. Today I prefer the Novotny,
tomorrow who knows? Neither CD set is available at Amazon (well,
there's a Vegh used at about $100), but the Novotny is available
as MP3's for $14. (Of course, the Chaconne is the only track not
sold separately.) If Novotny's Sonatas are as impressive as his
Chaconne, that would interest me. [Comments?]
--

Al Eisner

[Alan Cooper]

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in

news:alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu:

Novotny's is my favorite complete set, although what prompted me to mention
it was Howie's complaint about "Gypsy violin playing" in Bach. There are
many recordings of these inexhaustible works that I like, but Novotny's
sound, technique, and approach to the music seem absolutely "right" to me.
Not a shred of the "Gypsy," as far as I can hear :-) I like the drama of
Vegh, but his technique does let him down. Sorry these are so hard to
find; perhaps I'll post Novotny on SymphonyShare. I have Vegh only on LP,
although there was a CD reissue that's now op akaik.

AC

[Al Eisner]

On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, Alan Cooper wrote:

> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote in

> news:alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu:

[much snipped]

>> I've since listened to the Vegh for which you provided a youtube link.
>> My snap reaction was that it was edgier, perhaps more dramatic, less
>> flowing than the passionate Novotny. Today I prefer the Novotny,
>> tomorrow who knows? Neither CD set is available at Amazon (well,
>> there's a Vegh used at about $100), but the Novotny is available
>> as MP3's for $14. (Of course, the Chaconne is the only track not
>> sold separately.) If Novotny's Sonatas are as impressive as his
>> Chaconne, that would interest me. [Comments?]
>
> Novotny's is my favorite complete set, although what prompted me to mention
> it was Howie's complaint about "Gypsy violin playing" in Bach. There are
> many recordings of these inexhaustible works that I like, but Novotny's
> sound, technique, and approach to the music seem absolutely "right" to me.
> Not a shred of the "Gypsy," as far as I can hear :-) I like the drama of
> Vegh, but his technique does let him down. Sorry these are so hard to
> find; perhaps I'll post Novotny on SymphonyShare. I have Vegh only on LP,
> although there was a CD reissue that's now op akaik.
>
> AC

No need to post, so far as I'm concerned. For these works I'm happy
to buy the MP3's and have them at least in Amazon cloud player, and
thus available to download. Thanks.
--

Al Eisner

[Mandryka]

I've had a chance to listen to the whole of Partita 2 played by Novotny. It's noble and serious, two of the qualities which I think are essential for this music. He plays with muscularity and gravitas. This is very much Bach in the grand style. I wish he would have allowed himself a bit mor litheness and suppleness. For that reason, I don't think I could recommend Novotny over Ingrid Matthews, for example. Or indeed the intriguing Hélène Schmitt. Neither does he have the simple disarming franckness of Felix Ayo, which I love so much.

When did Novotny record it ? My guess is that it's pre HIP or anti HIP, and I think it suffers slightly as a result.

[Alan Cooper]

Mandryka <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:61fe60fd-f7cd-4385...@googlegroups.com:

Novotny's set of the S&Ps was recorded in two sessions in 1969, following
live performances. So he's pre-HIP, but he did seek technical solutions
to the problems associated with multiple stopping and independent
voicing. There are many different ways of approaching the works, and
while I love the drama and clarity of Novotny's performances, others are
necessary to supply the missing qualities. I have not heard Schmitt's
Bach, although I have her Schmelzer disc and it's terrific. I think the
raves for Podger's HIP performances are totally justified; she has all
the "litheness and suppleness" one could wish for. I'm not sure what you
see in Ayo; he's a fine artist but to me his Bach is just OK--if anything
*too* plain. Among the more recent recordings by younger artists I
listen most often to Ehnes. But there are so many....

Alan

[Bob Lombard]

On 10/19/2013 1:40 PM, Alan Cooper wrote:
> Novotny's set of the S&Ps was recorded in two sessions in 1969,
> following live performances. So he's pre-HIP, but he did seek
> technical solutions to the problems associated with multiple stopping
> and independent voicing. There are many different ways of approaching
> the works, and while I love the drama and clarity of Novotny's
> performances, others are necessary to supply the missing qualities. I
> have not heard Schmitt's Bach, although I have her Schmelzer disc and
> it's terrific. I think the raves for Podger's HIP performances are
> totally justified; she has all the "litheness and suppleness" one
> could wish for. I'm not sure what you see in Ayo; he's a fine artist
> but to me his Bach is just OK--if anything *too* plain. Among the more
> recent recordings by younger artists I listen most often to Ehnes. But
> there are so many.... Alan

For sure the S&Ps are well represented in recordings - with at least as
many interpretations as there are legitimate possibilities?

Harking back to Mandryka's early post - I wonder why he thinks
Francescatti's Chaconne is Gypsy-like, but doesn't make that estimate of
Tenenbaum's. For me, Francescatti dramatizes the multi-stops /too/
strongly to be Gypsy-like. When I first heard him, many years ago, I
'heard' suggestions of a chamber orchestra with violin obbligato, and
was fascinated.

bl

[Mandryka]

That plain quality in Ayo is really appealing to me, to a great extent I'm discovering what I like here, and I'm surprising myself a bit. I just find there's a humility and honesty about the music making which appeals which appeals greatly.


Kuijken's first recording of the solo violin music has some of the same qualities as Ayo I think, and I like that a lot. I wonder if anyone prefers his second recording to the first.

[Mandryka]

Oh by the way, Schmitt is far from plain. But rhetorically, in terms of articulation and rhythm, it's interesting -- it's like someone speaking.

[Mandryka]

You may be right of course, I haven't paid much attention to Tenenbaum. I'll try to listen carefully tonight or tomorrow.

[Matthew Silverstein]

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 22:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Mandryka wrote:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

This isn't bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQcio8OLneg

Among other things, I love the way she uses moments of silence here.

Matty (who also likes her recording on Onyx)

[Mandryka]

It's very similar to the Onyx recording. I love what she does too, I like the way she breaks up the music.

[Edward A. Cowan]

A day or two ago, I listened to Nathan Milstein's recording (EMI) of the Chaconne and then to Stokowski's transcription of it (Pearl). Milstein has been a favorite of mine for some time, this despite some "rough" violin playing. I'll have to rehear the Stokowski RSN. Making an orchestral transcription of a piece for solo violin, and using the orchestral winds along with the strings, is something around which to wrap one's mind. The old (1934) recording sounds OK if not hi-fi. (NOTE: I have a "thing" about this conductor and this orchestra, having spent three seasons (1966-68, 1970-71) in Philadelphia at Penn in gradate school and listening to that orchestra live, including two Stokowski concerts. A third Stoki concert involved the Boston SO.) Stokowski's performances are _sui generis_ and not comparable to, say, HIP performances of Bach, or even to non-HIP performances by such as Karl Richter.

A story involving the Chaconne: A week after the Kennedy assassination (Nov. 22, 1963), I attended a concert of the San Antonio SO, cond. Victor Alessandro, at which Isaac Stern was scheduled to perform the Sibelius violin concerto. Instead, he offered a performance of this Chaconne in memory of JFK. The choice and the performance were very moving. --E.A.C.

[Mandryka]

Ah I managed to find the Heifetz. MOT is right to say it's intense -- but there are tons of intense recordings of the chaconne, so that doesn't distinguish it. I much preferred it to his recordings from the 1970s. But it's still a swaggering performance of a piece of bravura violin music in his hands, and I think that's bad. The music is so much more than that when played by informed or sympathetic musicians like Kuijken in his first recording, for example. Or indeed like Mullova in her third.

[Alan Cooper]

Mandryka <howie...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:ad5187bf-579a-4cd4...@googlegroups.com:

Heifetz recorded his complete set in 1952 (not in the '70s). It goes
without saying that his performances are violinistic rather than HIP, but
I find much to admire in them: they are surprisingly effortful (not
highly polished like Grumiaux's, for example) and unflinchingly direct.
I think it has become fashionable to dismiss Heifetz in this repertoire,
but I recommend another listen.

What is the earlier Heiftez to which you refer? The 1925 recording of
two movements from Partita #3?

AC

[Mandryka]

I'm talking about the one Marc Obert-Thorn mentioned, which he says is 1942. Is that a mistake -- should it have been 1952?

My feeling is that it isn't fashionable to be negative about Heifetz, I actually thought I was being iconoclastic. Like Rubinstein and Horowitz and Bernstein, he seems to have a strong base of admirers and few dissenters. In my experience, the people who like what he does with Bach have rarely explored HIP much.

But more interestingly, today I discovered for the first time Suzanne Lautenbacher's second recording of the sonatas, they're on spotify. I'm impressed and I'm very curious to hear how she plays the partitas -- I've ordered the set.

[Mandryka]

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 4:29:01 PM UTC+1, Alan Cooper wrote:

By the way, I'm not at all negative about Grumiaux, there's something very un-muscular about what he does which appeals to me.

[Mark Obert-Thorn]

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 12:28:59 PM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:
I'm talking about the one Marc Obert-Thorn mentioned, which he says is 1942. Is that a mistake -- should it have been 1952?

No, it's a previously unissued one from October 6, 1942.

Mark O-T

[Kerrison]

One of Stokowski's recordings is on You Tube, the 1950 'his Symphony Orchestra' recording, though the uploader doesn't say which CD it has come from ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEUYq5t-cCM

Somewhat surprisngly, there's also a 'live' performance given by the Karelian State Philarmony Orchestra, Petrozavodsk, conducted by Oleg Soldatov, and it's not at all bad ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-LfhlBQDxo

Perhaps Mark Obert-Thorn should upload on You Tube his own transfer of the Philadelphia recording?

Incidentally, it's amusing to read what Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji wrote in his "Mi Contra Fa" essays of 1947: "As far as I am concerned, those Bach solo-violin and 'cello works are nightmares, grinning, dry, rattling skeletons of compositions, bloodless, fleshless, staring anatomies." So there!

[Bob Lombard]

On 10/21/2013 3:35 AM, Kerrison wrote:
[...]

> Incidentally, it's amusing to read what Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji
> wrote in his "Mi Contra Fa" essays of 1947: "As far as I am concerned,
> those Bach solo-violin and 'cello works are nightmares, grinning, dry,
> rattling skeletons of compositions, bloodless, fleshless, staring
> anatomies." So there!

Hah. I think I have heard them played that way.

bl

[meistersin...@yahoo.com]

I would nominate Ricardo Odnoposoff's recording of the Chaconne. It's on Youtube as well. I've never heard it played so effortlessly, but never in a suave manner.

[Steve Emerson]

In article <u09l2jhqh64i.hbus7keoo5bp$.d...@40tude.net>,

She has a very fresh take on all six of the works. I was lucky enough to
see her do them in two installments. Chaconne was as extraordinary as
anything in them. Believe she did the Onyx set in between the recitals.

SE.

[Mandryka]

I'll just mention another find I made through spotify, the extraordinary recording by Ruth Waterman.

To some extent my attention has started to turn away from the chaconne to the fugue in the third sonata. If anyone knows any special recordings of that sonata, please let me know.

[Kerrison]

You Tube is a veritable treasure-trove of things you never hear or see anywhere else. Here is Christopher Hogwood whipping through Joachim Raff's extraordinary orchestration of the Chaconne with something called the Guangzhou Symphony Orchestra. You get curious whisps of Mendelssohn, Schumann, Liszt and even Bruckner in this arrangement ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS6tb-o4JLA

[wkasimer]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:25:33 AM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

I've always liked Gidon Kremer in the solo Bach works, and the Chaconne is no exception. But if you watch the YouTube version, I suggest minimizing it so you don't have to see Kremer, whose acrobatics are a bit distracting.

Bill

[wkasimer]

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:25:33 AM UTC-4, Mandryka wrote:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

And despite less than perfect playing (and somewhat ugly tone), I really like Ivry Gitlis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh8pKgwapSA&noredirect=1

Bill

[JohnGavin]

Sorabji might have actually been arguing for the Godowsky elaborations of these works (which I actually enjoy from time to time), but would stop very short of preferring them to the originals.

[Alan Cooper]

wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:03cdaa71-f8bf-449b...@googlegroups.com:

Excellent, because we're now approaching that wonderful rmcr moment when
every extant recording has been recommended by somebody or other. Has
anyone mentioned Ferras? Gimpel? (Both very fine, as it happens.)

AC

[Mandryka]

I know both the Gimpel record and the studio Ferras. Yet for me the major recording, the more glaring omission, is the late one from Leonid Kogan, the recording from Amsterdam in the 1990s I think. It's such a personal heartfelt statement.

From all the names mentioned the two big discoveries for me were the Stokowski transcription (I listened to the one on Naxos), and the fact that Cherkassky's performance of the Busoni Transcription for HMV is so very sad and special. While the thread was running I also found wonderful recordings on spotify -- the second one from Susanne Lautenbacher and the extraordinary Ruth Waterman. If I could only keep one it would probably be Kuijken's first recording.

[Kerrison]

Thanks for prompting me to quite the whole comment from 'Mi Contra Fa'. The entire chaper is devoted to "Leopold Godowsky as Creative Transcriber' and extols Godowsky as "one of the supreme masters of transcription". Sorabji writes that Godowsky's "wonderful transcription-compositions take on the aspects of new works built on and around an older core." He refers to an eye-brow raising, hour-long two-piano arrangement of Weber's 'Invitation to the Dance' (has anyone ever heard that?) and many other such works (ie: over 50 studies on Chopin's Etudes) as well as the "great piano works evolved from three violin solo Sonatas and three 'cello suites of Bach" in which "the peaks of Godowsky's achievements are attained."

The full quote is as follows: "Not being of those who are reduced to a condition of palpitating and speechless awe by a great name, I decline to anaesthetise my perceptions and critical faculties when a Bach or a Beethoven drops a brick, as it seems to me, or a Wagner wallows in crudity, vulgarity and ranting bombast, so I declare roundly that as far as I am concerned these Bach solo-violin and 'cello works are nightmares, grinning, dry, rattling skeletons of compositions, bloodless, fleshless, staring anatomies. Godowsky clothes them with flesh and blood and makes of them magnificent and indeed tremdous musical organisms having the sweep and grandeur, the profundity, solemnity and richness that is indeed associated with the greatest of Bach, but of which I can discern little or no trace in the bald bare sketches of the originals."

I was sufficiently intrigued to go onto You Tube, where you can find almost anything you wish to hear and see in the classical music field, and tapped Bach and Godowsky in the 'search' field. Sure enough, a whole batch of uploads sprang up at the top of which was the Bach-Godowsky Fugue from the Violin Sonata No. 1 played by Alessio Bax. And you know what, Sorabji had a point. It's great! ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJeUr_JT1-Y

[Bozo]

>On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:57:08 AM UTC-5, Kerrison wrote:the >Bach->Godowsky Fugue from the Violin Sonata No. 1 played by Alessio Bax. And you >know >what, Sorabji had a point. It's great! ...


Bax playing the Chaconne , same cd :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PuA8UAm6EE

[Alan Cooper]

Bozo <steve...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:87bcb315-c17b-4e23...@googlegroups.com:

Volume 2 of Scherbakov's Godowsky series on Marco Polo includes excellent
performances of all three of the Violin Sonata transcriptions. (His name
is spelled "Sherbakov" on the CD.) Volume 3 has more Baroque fun & games.
Great stuff! While we're on this topic, I can't resist mentioning that the
two volumes of Fiorentino's Bach on APR--especially the Bach/Rachmaninov
Partita #3 in volume 2--are essential listening.

AC

[Kerrison]

That's the Bach-Busoni version and Bax plays it splendidly. I suspect Stokowski worked from a piano arrangement like this when he made his orchestration of the piece.

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:25:33 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Dont think it really works musically, but here is Igor Levit (video) playing the Brahms left-hand transcription :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8fG7x8tiAA

[Mandryka]

The one to hear is Sokolov in Schwetzingen 2003. What's wrong with it musically?

[Bozo]

>On Monday, November 4, 2013 3:46:23 PM UTC-6, Mandryka wrote:
> The one to hear is Sokolov in Schwetzingen 2003. What's wrong with it musically?

For me, compared to the original Bach, and/or to the Busoni, the Brahms is a lifeless exercise.

[Mandryka]

Well try the Sokolov. I much prefer his performance of the Brahms to everyone else's performance of the Busoni save Cherkassky on HMV. But really, you're best of with the Bach.

[gilbo...@gmail.com]

בתאריך יום חמישי, 17 באוקטובר 2013 08:25:33 UTC+3, מאת Mandryka:

[td]

The Bretislav Novotny recording is available from iTunes for $13.00.

TD

[td]

James Ehnes!

TD

[vyachesl...@gmail.com]

четверг, 17 октября 2013 г., 6:25:33 UTC+1 пользователь Mandryka написал:

> You know, the last movement of J S Bach's second partita for solo violin.

Only Hilary Hahn performance.

[Bozo]

>On Thursday, October 17, 2013 at 11:23:21 AM UTC-5, Bozo wrote:
> Alicia DeLarrocha,Mostly Mozart Decca lp

Here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NpZ2olYa9E

[Herman]

On Sunday, October 20, 2013 at 6:28:59 PM UTC+2, Mandryka wrote:

> My feeling is that it isn't fashionable to be negative about Heifetz

Alan said in this repertoire - Bach.

[christian....@gmail.com]

Hamelin. Charlevoix-Est 2002.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

I agree that the Hamelin is v good indeed.

[christian....@gmail.com]

Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 14:51:56 UTC+2 skrev howie...@btinternet.com:
> I agree that the Hamelin is v good indeed.

It's such an experience to listen through, and still the only performance I've heard which makes the music sound as profound as it really is. MAH isn't always the first to spring to mind in this kind of repertoire - he also came from way out on left field and delivered what is still my favorite LvB Op.90 a few years before this for instance. It's one of those combinations which "shouldn't" work, but which do - much like Lupu/Liszt or Pogo/Bach.

I don't have at all the same overview on the violin front, but from the few I'm familiar with I second dk's vote for Szeryng, and strongly oppose anyone who said Heifetz! Rubinstein/Paris 1948, Bolet/Carnegie 1974, and ABM/Warsaw 1955 are worth having mentioned of the Busoni transcription too unless someone has already.

[Herman]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 4:42:14 PM UTC+2, christian....@gmail.com wrote:
> Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 14:51:56 UTC+2 skrev howie...@btinternet.com:
> > I agree that the Hamelin is v good indeed.
>
> It's such an experience to listen through, and still the only performance I've heard which makes the music sound as profound as it really is.

You can't be serious.

1 This is a piece for violin

2 The Chaconne is the final movement of a five movement composition.

And you think a aberrant truncated adaptation for piano does this music most justice?

[christian....@gmail.com]

This has to be the most idiotic comment I've read during the three weeks I've followed this forum. Busoni's transcription is more than capable of matching the experience of Bach's violin original, and what does it matter that FB didn't transcribe the other movements? This thread is about the Chaconne, not the Partita, and the movement has often been both performed and recorded alone by violinists as well.

Anyway - YES, is the answer to your question. I'm not at all as well versed among recordings of the original, but I have yet to hear a performance on the violin as deep as what MAH did with it in Saint-Irénée. If you think you know one though - paste it in.

[JohnGavin]

About 40 years ago, the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that the best unaccompanied Bach from major violinists were from Szeryng and Milstein. Others may have since taken their places - I can't really say.

As far as the Busoni transcription, Michelangeli (EMI 1948) is IMO not only the greatest I've ever heard, but one of the most superlative piano recordings ever made. It's a lesson on pianistic color, partially because I believe that 79 rpm recordings captured a kind of fidelity and detail in piano sound that later advancements never quite caught.

Runners up for me: Alicia De Larrocha (2nd recording) and Hamelin.

[Frank Berger]

Yep. It was that 1 extra RPM that made all the difference.

> Runners up for me: Alicia De Larrocha (2nd recording) and Hamelin.
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[howie...@btinternet.com]

On Wednesday, 19 October 2016 15:42:14 UTC+1, christian....@gmail.com wrote:
> Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 14:51:56 UTC+2 skrev howie...@btinternet.com:
> > I agree that the Hamelin is v good indeed.
>
> It's such an experience to listen through, and still the only performance I've heard which makes the music sound as profound as it really is.

Have you heard Cherkassky (HMV)?

[Tony]

Benjamin Grosvenor has just recorded this (released last month). I think it's a studio recording. I have a live recording which I'll upload soon.

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Forget the Cherkassky. I just listened to it again and Hamelin is more interesting.

[christian....@gmail.com]

Mmm, yes, because I have it, but I must admit I don't recall how it sounds at all. I'll check it out next time I'm in Chaconne mood though.

[christian....@gmail.com]

Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 19:25:45 UTC+2 skrev JohnGavin:
> As far as the Busoni transcription, Michelangeli (EMI 1948) is IMO not only the greatest I've ever heard, but one of the most superlative piano recordings ever made. It's a lesson on pianistic color, partially because I believe that 79 rpm recordings captured a kind of fidelity and detail in piano sound that later advancements never quite caught.

I think it's one of his best too, or most startling anyway. I brought up Warsaw instead since I saw EMI had been discussed earlier in the thread already. The problem I've had with ABM, and his studio recording in particular, is that I find it a bit cold, matter-of-fact and "aggressive". My memory of EMI anyway is that he treats it much like a virtuoso showpiece, which isn't quite the way I see it. As I recall Warsaw has the same approach but with a stronger sense of narrative - if at the expense of some of the thrill.

[christian....@gmail.com]

Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 20:46:11 UTC+2 skrev howie...@btinternet.com:
> Forget the Cherkassky. I just listened to it again and Hamelin is more interesting.

Hehe, allright.

[hvid...@gmail.com]

I especially am especially moved by Milstein or Mullova.

The discussion here displays the "pianophilic tilt." of the group in recent times.

HV

[JohnGavin]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:19:10 PM UTC-4, dk wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 10:25:45 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >
> > 79 rpm recordings captured a kind of fidelity and
> > detail in piano sound that later advancements never
> > quite caught.
>

> 79 rpm recordings were certainly great!
> How many do you own? ;-)
>
> dk

Exactly 2 - one which I would like to hurl towards Frank Berger, and the other towards you. Consider it akin to playing frisbee. :) It's really fun! (at least for the pitcher).

[Frank Berger]

Let me understand your attitude. Are you annoyed with some
good-natured ribbing?

[JohnGavin]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:54:58 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 10/19/2016 3:32 PM, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:19:10 PM UTC-4, dk wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 10:25:45 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 79 rpm recordings captured a kind of fidelity and
> >>> detail in piano sound that later advancements never
> >>> quite caught.
> >>
> >> 79 rpm recordings were certainly great!
> >> How many do you own? ;-)
> >>
> >> dk
> >
> > Exactly 2 - one which I would like to hurl towards Frank Berger, and the other towards you. Consider it akin to playing frisbee. :) It's really fun! (at least for the pitcher).
> >
>
> Let me understand your attitude. Are you annoyed with some
> good-natured ribbing?
>

No, of course not.

[Frank Berger]

Good. I thought having a recording hurled at me sounded
slightly hostile.

[hvid...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 4:49:07 PM UTC-4, dk wrote:

> On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-7, hvid...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 2:54:04 PM UTC-4, christian....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Den onsdag 19 oktober 2016 kl. 20:46:11 UTC+2 skrev howie...@btinternet.com:
> > > > Forget the Cherkassky. I just listened to
> > > > it again and Hamelin is more interesting.
> > >
> > > Hehe, all right.
> >
> > I especially am especially moved by Milstein or Mullova.
>

> Does it matter which one? ;-)
>
> dk

Yes, sorry....The Milstein on DG from the 70's shows austere depth,great beauty and full technical confidence.

Mullova on Onyx adds fluidity and nuance, perhaps a less monumental performance---amazing technical brilliance.

HV

[Bozo]

>On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 12:25:45 PM UTC-5, JohnGavin wrote:
> About 40 years ago, the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that the best unaccompanied Bach from major >violinists were from Szeryng and Milstein. Others may have since taken their places - I can't really say.

I heard Milstein perform it in the mid-70's. He played just the Chaconne mov. as the second work of the first half.

[Bozo]

>On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 7:52:48 PM UTC-5, Bozo wrote:
> I heard Milstein perform it in the mid-70's. He played just the Chaconne mov. as the second work of the >first half.

More exactly, 1978.

Monday October 30, 8 pm ,1978 ,Hancher Auditorium,Iowa City ,Iowa.

Sonata in E major Paganini
Chaconne from Partita No.2 Bach
Two Caprices Paganini
Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso Saint-Saens
Consolation Liszt-Milstein
Valse-Scherzo Tchaikovsky

[Sol L. Siegel]

howie...@btinternet.com wrote in news:3f2e9cc6-27cb-4ad0-875a-
60870d...@googlegroups.com:

> I agree that the Hamelin is v good indeed.

I have Tipo - picked it up for 25 cents at a library sale. I like it a lot.

Violin? I always listen to the entire Partita - usually either Milstein/DG
or Novotny.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA