Brahms's Piano Music

189 views
Skip to first unread message

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 9:48:52 AM10/28/10
to
I like Brahms’s piano music.

I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.

But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
on.

I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Message has been deleted

woytek

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 11:14:08 AM10/28/10
to
On 28 Paź, 15:56, JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
> of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
> It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
> time.
>
> The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way.  Have you heard
> ABM in these?

I love Richter way with first two piano sonatas. I know three
recordings: great Mantova recording from Decca, not so good version
from Tours on Philips (right now included in Richter the master Decca
series) and the best of them all Praga version which is I'm afraid not
available right now. And very interesting early Moscow recording is
available on Sviatoslavrichter.ru site: http://www.sviatoslavrichter.ru/records.php

David Wake

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 11:53:23 AM10/28/10
to
woytek <bar...@op.pl> wrote:

Rubinstein in pretty much anything.

Richter "in Leipzig" in the E flat minor intermezzo is overwhelming.

Gilels in the Ballades.

David

Prince Myshkin

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 12:54:51 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:48 am, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:

In my opinion, Stephen Kovacevich's Philips recordings of late Brahms
is his finest achievement on record. Ferociously intense at times. I
can imagine some finding it overheated, but for me, it works. I have
long wished that he would record op. 5.

Prince Myshkin

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 1:05:07 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:48 am, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:

On a tangent, I see that next month, Murray Perahia is releasing a
Brahms album of the Handel Variations, Rhapsodies, op. 118 & 119.
Some don't like him, I know; think his playing pretty and bland. I
think of him as subtle. Usually the longer I live with his
performance of something, the more it grows on me.

bassppn

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 1:14:56 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:56 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 9:48 am, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
> of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
> It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
> time.
>
> The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way.  Have you heard
> ABM in these?

also try Kempff

AB

Doug McDonald

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 1:28:09 PM10/28/10
to
My major problem with Brahm's solo piano music is that he didn't write
more of it in large forms as a youth. A term I hear used on his early
style is "granitic" and I think it applies well. The later works are
more subtle.

Doug McDonald

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 1:32:02 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:56 am, JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Oct 28, 9:48 am, mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Speaking of op. 5, I've been trying to get ahold of Zimerman's DG (out
> of print) recording, with the other 2 Sonatas
> It shows up on EBay now and then, but ends up selling for $300+ each
> time.

Ridiculous, John. I bought this set when it was still available.
Normal prices. But that's what happens when you have a real
"collector's item". Unfortunately his Mozart disc was never issued on
CD. He has a problem with the "sound" of these DG recordings. It took
me a half hour to talk him into letting me use the Scherzo in his GPE
volume. He simply wouldn't relent on the Op.5 sonata.

TD

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 1:54:05 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 6:28 pm, Doug McDonald

Well, there are the big sets of variations. A set of variations is a
large form, no?

But yes, not the same form as a sonata.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 2:08:01 PM10/28/10
to

What was his problem with the sound?

I'm playing his Op 5 now and it doesn't sound at all bad to me. The
pianos a bit closely miked and maybe some of the higher notes are a
bit harsh.

Much better sound than DG at their worst -- Pletnev's Chopin, for
example.

Bob Harper

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 2:39:07 PM10/28/10
to
On 10/28/10 6:48 AM, mandryka wrote:
> I like Brahms�s piano music.
>
> I�ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it�s

> probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
>
> But I�m enjoying his music so much � early, middle and late � that I

> am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
> channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
> on.
>
> I�ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely
> overwhelmed by recently � Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,

> especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

Sorry to do this, but I'll mention a recording which, AFAIK, has never
been on CD and is unlikely to appear on CD. That is the live performance
of the Fantasies Op. 116 by Antonin Kubalek which appeared ca. 30 years
ago on a Citadel LP. To this day I've never heard another performance of
these pieces that matched this one. Total conviction--all the others
I've heard sound tame by comparison.

Bob Harper

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 2:56:29 PM10/28/10
to
In article
<3143dff5-920c-4f1c...@j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
pianomaven <1pian...@gmail.com> wrote:

The sound on Op 5 is bad, he's right. It's also a completely
unremarkable performance.

John, if you're reading this, please drop me an e-mail. I sent one to
you a while back and it bounced.

SE.

Matthew�B.�Tepper

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 3:02:52 PM10/28/10
to
David Wake <dnw...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters to
be typed in news:1871662290309973888.4...@news.sonic.net:

> Rubinstein in pretty much anything.
>
> Richter "in Leipzig" in the E flat minor intermezzo is overwhelming.
>
> Gilels in the Ballades.

In the Capriccio Op. 76 #2 ... B�la Bart�k! Really.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers

Paul Goldstein

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 3:28:18 PM10/28/10
to
In article <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka says...
>
>I like Brahms=92s piano music.
>
>I=92ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it=92s

>probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
>
>But I=92m enjoying his music so much =96 early, middle and late =96 that I

>am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
>stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
>channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
>on.

I strongly recommend the relatively recent recording of op. 118 by Wu Han on an
Artist-Led CD that also features excellent recordings of the two cello sonatas
with David Finckel. Wu Han plays throughout with great imagination.

Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of Glenn
Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he plays with
remarkable feeling.

SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 3:51:06 PM10/28/10
to

"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:fd55fa84-27a6-4a08...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

>But I�m enjoying his music so much � early, middle and late � that I
>am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
>stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
>channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
>on.

The only version of the first sonata I revisit is Petrov's, on a Melodya CD,
coupled with Baskirov's version of the second sonata.

Among the many recordings of Op. 116-119 I like in particular Markus Groh's
on Avie. There is a certain ease in his approach to these pieces that
reminds me (vaguely, of course) of Rubinstein (the greatest Brahms
performer).

Gavrilyuk performs the Paganini Variations, if you want a truly brilliant
version by a youngster (in the way of Cziffra).

Henk


Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 4:02:21 PM10/28/10
to
In article
<fd55fa84-27a6-4a08...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I like Brahms�s piano music.
>
> I�ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it�s
> probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
>
> But I�m enjoying his music so much � early, middle and late � that I
> am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
> channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
> on.

Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff

Schumann Variations Webster

Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff

Rhapsodies Argerich and many others

Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas

Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez

Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
Schliessman, Grimaud, and others

SE.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 4:20:21 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 8:28 pm, Paul Goldstein <pgold...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

Op 117/3 is very good in the final third, where he brings out the
counterpoint. Or maybe he finds voice which aren't really there. I
don't know. But it is memorable.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 4:28:15 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 8:51 pm, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> schreef in berichtnews:fd55fa84-27a6-4a08...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
starting to enjoy them.

The Petrov is here, right?

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music for
me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

wimpie

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 4:44:04 PM10/28/10
to
> TD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What I have never quite understood with Zimerman: when he was
dissatisfied with the sound of his recordings, why did he choose to
stay with DGG? He could have moved to Philips when they were still
active (and this was of course definitely the case when Zimerman
stopped making solo recordings after 1992/3!) and could have made I
don't know how many great recordings that will never see the day
now... And, something else that baffles me, how is it possible that
such a major company DGG cannot provide a pianist with the "right"
sound? Or did Philips only have the secret? Or is Zimerman such a
perfectionist that even that wouldn't have been good enough for him?

W.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 4:45:38 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:02 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article
> <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>

That's the sort of thing I was expecting from you

The Masselos seems pretty hard to find. which is a shame because I’m
curious about what can be done with the first sonata. There’s a
torrent – but it looks dead.

Do you know the Kocsis Op 5? I don’t have the Bashkirov (I have the
second sonata)

I'm glad to see you mention Schliessman. I love his Schumann CD. So I
will get the Brahms -- I was looking for an excuse to buy it. Have you
heard his Goldberg Variations?

I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
time you're in London.

Rodriguez hmm? That's another one I don’t know anything about. I like
the Paganini Variations maybe more that any other Brahms piece.

Glad you mentioned Gieseking -- I get a lot of pleasure from his late
pieces. And the Op 76.

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 6:03:47 PM10/28/10
to
In article
<363d5bbd-750e-4692...@j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 28, 9:02�pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > �mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> > > I like Brahms1s piano music.
> >
> > > I1ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it1s


> > > probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
> >

> > > But I1m enjoying his music so much - early, middle and late - that I


> > > am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> > > stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
> > > channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
> > > on.
> >
> > Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
> > Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
> > Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
> > Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
> >
> > Schumann Variations Webster
> >
> > Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
> >
> > Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
> >
> > Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
> >
> > Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
> >
> > Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
> > Schliessman, Grimaud, and others
> >
> > SE.
>
> That's the sort of thing I was expecting from you

I forgot to mention Moravec's late Brahms, which is magnifique. Both
Connoisseur (and on VAI CD, I think) and Nonesuch. The Nonesuch is the
coupling for the splendid Kinderszenen (different from the Supraphon),
which I know you're curious about....

> The Masselos seems pretty hard to find. which is a shame because I�m
> curious about what can be done with the first sonata. There�s a
> torrent � but it looks dead.
>
> Do you know the Kocsis Op 5? I don�t have the Bashkirov (I have the
> second sonata)

I never got around to the Kocsis, which hung around at Berkshire for a
very long time. Thanks for suggesting it.

Bashkirov Melodiya -- you must hear it:

http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=32731


> I'm glad to see you mention Schliessman. I love his Schumann CD. So I
> will get the Brahms -- I was looking for an excuse to buy it. Have you
> heard his Goldberg Variations?

No, but there are two Schumann CDs. A Kreisleriana/Sym. Etudes, and
another with a knockout Fantasy.

> I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
> ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
> time you're in London.

Check Youtube. I can vouch for the transfer.

> Rodriguez hmm? That's another one I don�t know anything about. I like
> the Paganini Variations maybe more that any other Brahms piece.

Rodriguez is -- riveting.

http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Johann-Sebastian-Bach/dp/B00004WK6Z
/

They seem to offer MP3s as well.

> Glad you mentioned Gieseking -- I get a lot of pleasure from his late
> pieces. And the Op 76.

SE.

M. A.

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 7:27:00 PM10/28/10
to
"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote...

>
> On Oct 28, 8:51 pm, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Gavrilyuk performs the Paganini Variations, if you want a truly
> > brilliant version by a youngster (in the way of Cziffra).
>
> I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

I remember Cziffra's performance as quite straining and haven't revisited it
since.

In the Paganini Variations, my vote goes to Arrau, early Michelangeli and
Anda (BBC).

M. A.

O

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 7:45:47 PM10/28/10
to
In article
<31c90873-08af-4e82...@u17g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:


I was going to mention how good Gould is as well. On seccond thought,
I will.

-Owen

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 9:15:02 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 4:02 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article
> <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>

Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
glaring omission.

Katchen in Op. 5.

A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

TD

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 9:28:05 PM10/28/10
to
In article
<764f5d74-8f36-4a7e...@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
pianomaven <1pian...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 28, 4:02 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >  mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> > > I like Brahmsąs piano music.
> >
> > > Iąve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so itąs


> > > probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
> >

> > > But Iąm enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I


> > > am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> > > stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
> > > channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
> > > on.
> >
> > Sonata 1 Katchen, Masselos
> > Sonata 2 Freire (Internet radio), Arrau
> > Sonata 3 Bashkirov (Melodiya/Bukok), Gelber (Denon), Rubinstein,
> > Sokolov, Vedernikov, Kempff
> >
> > Schumann Variations Webster
> >
> > Ballades ABM, Gould, Gilels (live only), Kempff
> >
> > Rhapsodies Argerich and many others
> >
> > Handel Variations Gelber, Jacqueline Eymar, Anievas
> >
> > Paganini Variations Arrau, ABM, Rodriguez
> >
> > Late works Webster, Neuhaus, Cliburn, Leonskaja, Gieseking, Gilels,
> > Schliessman, Grimaud, and others
>
> Among the many you seem either to discount or not to know there is one
> glaring omission.
>
> Katchen in Op. 5.
>
> A real performance by the young Katchen which brings this music - with
> its weak mvts. 4-5 - to life in a manner unparalleled in my
> experience. It was, indeed, the first recording of any solo piano on
> Decca and remains for me the touchstone, a riveting performance by a
> fiery your musician at the very height of his powers.

I believe you mean the first Katchen recording, in mono. It's a terrific
performance, and one you and I have discussed many times. I even went so
far as to praise the acuity of including it in the Philips series, vs.
his later, stereo recording. I don't think it's as interesting as the
other Op 5's that I mentioned, but it's certainly noteworthy.

SE.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 1:46:06 AM10/29/10
to
It sure sounds like Moravec’s Nonsuch recording is good – but
unfortunately I can’t hear it!

The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
Kreisleriana and the Etudes.

I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
is on Meldyia.

And Cherkassky too -- I think his Handel Variations are supremely
entertaining. Same, but less so, for the PVs I think.

And me, I love Pogorelich -- especially in the Op 76 and 117/3. The
117/3 is completely off the wall in a way, but it's very nice poetry,
if you know what I mean. You can imagine Brahms spinning in his grave.

I think SE is being quite mean about the sound quality of Zimerman's
sonata. But being brutally accurate about the quality of the
interpretation :)

And I agree with Dirge about Annie Fischer's Hungarian Peasant
Songs.

SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 4:17:57 AM10/29/10
to

"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:bc060eab-8e1b-484a...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

>I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?

It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such. My
favourite version is Anda's.

>What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
>fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
>starting to enjoy them.

I don't have Angelich's PVs. As a matter of fact I don't have any Angelich
recording. He's one of those excellent pianists I find it difficult to
listen to, for no obvious reason.

>The Petrov is here, right?

>http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1_1?>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.

>I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
>Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music for
>me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.

Petrov's version is also interesting because of the pianism. Petrov's
performance of the sonata proves that he could have been one of the very
great. Somehow it didn't work out that way. Perhaps he was too controlled
during live performances.

Henk


mandryka

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 4:22:09 AM10/29/10
to
On Oct 28, 11:03 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:

>
> > I haven't got anyone doing the Op 9 Schumann Variations so if you're
> > ever in the mood to transfer the Webster I will buy you a drink next
> > time you're in London.
>
> Check Youtube. I can vouch for the transfer.

>

>
> SE.


Yes -- that's nice playing and nice music. Thanks for uploading it.

As it turns out I have a recording of it played by Vanessa Wagner --
but that performance is turgid by comparison.

There's Garrick Ohlsson now of course.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 5:04:37 AM10/29/10
to
On Oct 29, 9:17 am, "HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:
> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> schreef in berichtnews:bc060eab-8e1b-484a...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

>
> >I've never heard Cziffra's PVs. Is it an interesting performance?
>
> It's above all a very brilliant performance, and I like it as such. My
> favourite version is Anda's.
>
> >What do you make of Nicholas Angelich's PVs? I couldn't see what the
> >fuss was about at first, but slowly , with repeated listening, I'm
> >starting to enjoy them.
>
> I don't have Angelich's PVs. As a matter of fact I don't have any Angelich
> recording. He's one of those excellent pianists I find it difficult to
> listen to, for no obvious reason.
>
> >The Petrov is here, right?
> >http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/...>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1

>
> Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.
>
> >I'm quite tempted by that. I only know the first sonata through
> >Richter and I kind of thought it wasn't very interesting music  for
> >me. But clearly Richter thought highly enough of it to take it on.
>
> Petrov's version is also interesting because of the pianism. Petrov's
> performance of the sonata proves that he could have been one of the very
> great. Somehow it didn't work out that way. Perhaps he was too controlled
> during live performances.
>
> Henk

If you can find it there's a recording of a concert with some late
Brahms "floating" on the web which is the best I've heard from him --
better than the studio Brahms. Let me know if you can't find it and
you want to try it, and I'll upload it for you.

Another good concert of late Brahms floating around on the web is from
Cassard.

Lots of good French pianists these days. And yet only two French
conservetoires, I think (Paris and Lyon)

mandryka

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 5:09:45 AM10/29/10
to
I may as well put this here.

This recital from Sokolov -- which has quite a bit of late Brahms,
from a concert in Heidelberg in April this year, is well worth
catching. It's much better than his Op 118s on an old LP you may know.
Much less unctious.

There's also a Rotterdam (March 2010) concert in the same upload --
but the Heidelberg has excellent sound.

http://megaupload.com/?d=0UYZ50HG

Let me know if there's a problem and I'll put it on mediafire


Christopher Howell

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 5:41:20 AM10/29/10
to
>
> There's Garrick Ohlsson now of course.

Deszo Ranki for the op. 4 Scherzo.
His Brahms recital on Harmonia Mundi is generally fine but that's the
piece I remember particularly

Chris Howell

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 6:32:34 AM10/29/10
to

Wrong.

They are all over the place.

Most have some affiliation with Paris. You know the French. Everything
starts and ends in Paris.

TD

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 6:36:28 AM10/29/10
to
On Oct 28, 9:28 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article
> <764f5d74-8f36-4a7e-b3a6-50833c83f...@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
>
>
>
>  pianomaven <1pianoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 28, 4:02 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <fd55fa84-27a6-4a08-83f5-186fcc311...@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > >  mandryka <howie.st...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > I like Brahms¹s piano music.
>
> > > > I¹ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it¹s

> > > > probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
>
> > > > But I¹m enjoying his music so much ­ early, middle and late ­ that I

Well, I put it right up at the top.
I certainly had no memory of your prior advocacy. Steve.

Mind you, this is weak Brahms in my opinion. The last two
movements are almost embarrassing, whoever plays it.

TD

JohnGavin

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:11:19 AM10/29/10
to
On Oct 28, 2:56 pm, Steve Emerson <eme...@n-n-nospamsonic.net> wrote:
> In article
> <3143dff5-920c-4f1c-b954-ffc4afb14...@j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,

Steve,

It's the same prefix @gmail.com

Matthew B. Tepper

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:32:19 AM10/29/10
to
Paul Goldstein <pgol...@newsguy.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:iacis...@drn.newsguy.com:

> Donning my asbestos suit (as we used to say here), I also love all of
> Glenn Gould's solo Brahms recordings, especially the Ballades, which he
> plays with remarkable feeling.

Made after he had his emotion circuits installed?

Matthew B. Tepper

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:32:19 AM10/29/10
to
wimpie <wille...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:733addc2-c7f3-4c3c-aa71-8289712afac3
@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:

> What I have never quite understood with Zimerman: when he was dissatisfied
> with the sound of his recordings, why did he choose to stay with DGG?

He had a contract and he was stuck?

JohnGavin

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:38:43 AM10/29/10
to
On Oct 29, 10:32 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> wimpie <willembo...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters

I found the sound on the LP of Sonatas 1 & 2 more than acceptable.
The playing of these Sonatas is exceptional - on the refined side,
certainly when compared to Richter's more massive, orchestral approach
(also quite wonderful IMO).
Perhaps the transfers to CD are harsh?

JohnGavin

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:42:37 AM10/29/10
to

The last mvt of op. 5 strikes me as structurally chaotic - but it's
endearing in a youthful/heroic sort of way, don't you think?

By the way, since you have the ZImerman set, what is your opinion of
his op. 10 Ballades?

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 11:05:53 AM10/29/10
to

Well, it IS youthful, but another word might be childish? Endearing?
LIke a child who whines all the time?

> By the way, since you have the ZImerman set, what is your opinion of
> his op. 10 Ballades?

I have to say, John, that it has ben ages - decades? - since I
listened to them. Not my favourite pieces by Brahms, I would hasten to
add. So, no opinion. I do like and remember ABM's Brahms Ballades,
specially No. 4 which always reminds me of Faure somehow. And Gould,
because of its deconstructed quality.

Kempff and Kovacevich are also very fine, in my opinion.

But as I say, Op. 10 is not among my list of great Brahms. I prefer
the Variations on an original theme. Now there's the Brahms I like.

TD

AGrey

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 11:31:13 AM10/29/10
to

For the Handel Variations, I can suggest:-

Solomon
Moiseiwitsch - uneven but an antidote if you find many in this work
are dry or bloated
Arrau (Ermitage)
Bolet
Katchen

Not all of these conform to the request for 'sleepers' but probably
the first three do. And Bolet, if you can find a live performance
(none issued, AFAIK) rather than the studio LP.

Solomon's Intermezzo in B flat minor 117 no.2 is also one to hunt out.

Alan

mandryka

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 12:40:32 PM10/29/10
to

Talking of 117/2 I was picked up Ignaz Tiegerman's CDs on Arbiter
today and played it in the car. I enjoyed the Brahms -- including
117/2. But most of all the Romance 118/6. He makes it sound melancholy
and noble. Very different from Gieseking, who I normally listen to in
this. Gieseking is light and whimsical.

As far as the Handel Variations goes, I seem to play Lubimov most
these days. And Yudina.

The studio Bolet has never done much for me. It just seems slick and
flashy. You saw him play this one live did you?

Cherkassky's better on record IMO.

Moiseiwitsch recorded it twice -- I can't say I have noticed much
difference between them. I like them both.

And I like Arrau's live one.

Levy is another one who has never done much for me in this.

BTW the thing which impressed me most on the Tiegerman CD was the
Fauré -- such strong and powerful playing.

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 12:52:11 PM10/29/10
to
In article <4cca8367$0$81476$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>,

"HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote:

>
> >The Petrov is here, right?
>
> >http://www.amazon.com/Great-Piano-Music-World-Romantic/dp/B0002IPYQU/ref=sr_1
> >_1?>s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1288297483&sr=1-1
>
> Precisely! It's a pity you already have the Bashkirov.


I think B. recorded #2 twice, as with Schubert's D.664 and the Schumann
Fantasy. The Melodiya versions (as above) are usually preferable.

SE.

Andrej Kluge

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 12:53:33 PM10/29/10
to
Hi,

mandryka wrote:
> But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
> am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> stuff you have found on line which may not be available through
> normal channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his
> music, and so on.

I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music. However,
not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend or condemn him.
I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what the heck :-)

Ciao
AK

M. A.

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 1:08:33 PM10/29/10
to
"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote...

>
> I may as well put this here.
>
> This recital from Sokolov -- which has quite a bit of late Brahms,
> from a concert in Heidelberg in April this year, is well worth
> catching. It's much better than his Op 118s on an old LP you may know.
> Much less unctious.

Thank you very much! I attended that recital in Heidelberg, but I missed
the Bach Partita due to heavy traffic.

M. A.

Alan Cooper

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 4:32:39 PM10/29/10
to
"Andrej Kluge" <kl...@wizzy.de> wrote in
news:8j0ch4...@mid.individual.net:

And speaking of the unmentioned (unless I missed it), am I the only one who is a
fan of Backhaus's Brahms from the '30s? I mean, Moravec, Katchen, et al, aren't
exactly "sleepers" or "younger pianists," although they're more recent than
Backhaus, I suppose. I still find his Paganini Variations jaw-dropping, and on
Naxos they're c/w a breathtaking d-m concerto. The Naxos companion CD of solo
works includes many splendid performances. And speaking of historicals, for the
op. 5 sonata does anyone listen to Bauer or Fischer any more? Their performances
stands up well in comparison to the likes of Gelber and Sokolov (two other
favorites of mine), imo. I should confess that I'm not a huge fan of the piece,
though.

I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has been mentioned
already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially) Handel Variations.

AC

JohnGavin

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 8:32:03 PM10/29/10
to

Not sure how available Rosel's recordings are. I have a Bach-Busoni
CD of his.
Strong technique - very very straightforward playing - to the extreme
I'd say.

I do remember seeing his Brahms on the shelves about a decade ago.

Sol L. Siegel

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 9:49:46 PM10/29/10
to
JohnGavin <dag...@comcast.net> wrote in news:26dadb8c-5a39-49f7-9c68-
f387a0...@j25g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> The Ballades op 10 are very fine in their austere way. Have you heard
> ABM in these?

One of my favorite recordings of anything, by anybody; certainly my
favorite ABM recording. He gives the first real tragic import and turns
the last into some kind of great romantic poem. Too bad the Schubert
sonata (the early A minor, D. 537) it's usually paired with is such a
static performance of a decidedly lesser work.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

Matthew B. Tepper

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:00:13 PM10/29/10
to
Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> appears to have caused the

following letters to be typed in
news:Xns9E20A8605C7FCam...@209.197.15.254:

> I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has been
> mentioned already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially) Handel
> Variations.

Considering all the stuff EMI has already issued on CD over and over again,
it's a crying shame these great performances aren't among them. Maybe I'll
mention to Gus on Facebook that his Brahms recordings have many admirers.

Sol L. Siegel

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 10:03:47 PM10/29/10
to

> I think Peter Rösel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.


> However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
> or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
> the heck

I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them. No fancy tricks, yet, as
with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
music.

In the meantime, why has no one mentioned Lupu? His Opp. 117 & 119 haven't
been beaten by anyone I know, and his 118 isn't exactly the proverbial
chopped liver, either. I also recall a very good rendition of the piano
version of the variations movement from the Op. 18 sextet.

Ray Hall

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 2:17:27 AM10/30/10
to
mandryka wrote:
> I like Brahms’s piano music.
>
> I’ve got quite a big collection of recordings already, so it’s
> probably a bit silly to be asking about recordings.
>
> But I’m enjoying his music so much – early, middle and late – that I
> am wondering whether there are any sleepers you have discovered, any
> stuff you have found on line which may not be available through normal
> channels, any younger pianists who are successful in his music, and so
> on.
>
> I’ll start this off by mentioning one that I have been completely

> overwhelmed by recently – Kocsis in Op 5. The end of the Andante,
> especially, has some of the best Brahms playing I have ever heard.

There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known Brahmsian,
anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?

Ray Hall, Taree

PS: and how about Fleisher in this repertoire?

Andrej Kluge

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 4:45:09 AM10/30/10
to
Hi,

JohnGavin wrote:
> Not sure how available Rosel's recordings are.

It seems to be readily available, also as MP3 (at least here in Germany):

http://www.amazon.de/Brahms-J--Klavierwerke-Peter-R%C3%B6sel/dp/B0006TROEK/

Ciao
AK

Gerard

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 5:04:48 AM10/30/10
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Alan Cooper <amco...@NOSPAMoptonline.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:Xns9E20A8605C7FCam...@209.197.15.254:
>
> > I guess the closest thing to a sleeper that I particularly like has
> > been mentioned already: Anievas in the Paganini and (especially)
> > Handel Variations.
>
> Considering all the stuff EMI has already issued on CD over and over
> again, it's a crying shame these great performances aren't among
> them. Maybe I'll mention to Gus on Facebook that his Brahms
> recordings have many admirers.

You'ld better put Schwarzenegger on this world shocking affair.


Gerard

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 5:10:36 AM10/30/10
to
Ray Hall wrote:
>
> There are some early sonatas on Regis by Grimaud. As a known
> Brahmsian, anyone know these recordings from the wolf-woman?
>

I have those on Brilliant Classics (I suppose they are Denon recordings). But
I'm not a 'known Brahmsian' re his piano works.


SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 5:12:05 AM10/30/10
to

"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:86e5745e-bad8-4540...@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

>If you can find it there's a recording of a concert with some late
>Brahms "floating" on the web which is the best I've heard from him --
>better than the studio Brahms. Let me know if you can't find it and
>you want to try it, and I'll upload it for you.

Many thanks! I did find the Brahms.

Henk


CharlesSmith

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 9:07:44 AM10/30/10
to
On 30 Oct, 03:03, "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Andrej Kluge" <kl...@wizzy.de> wrote innews:8j0ch4...@mid.individual.net:
>
> > I think Peter R sel has recorded all of Brahms' solo piano music.

> > However, not being a Brahms fan myself, I would not dare to recommend
> > or condemn him. I just thought -- noone has mentioned him yet, so what
> > the heck
>
> I have his Paganini Variations, and enjoy them.  No fancy tricks, yet, as
> with much of his playing that I've heard, I really find myself liking the
> music.

Thanks for this recommendation. Available at bargain price in the UK,
and from the samples sounds like good straightforward playing, so I've
sent for the set.

>
> In the meantime, why has no one mentioned Lupu?  His Opp. 117 & 119 haven't
> been beaten by anyone I know, and his 118 isn't exactly the proverbial
> chopped liver, either.  I also recall a very good rendition of the piano
> version of the variations movement from the Op. 18 sextet.

I like lots of Lupu's playing but I find his Brahms too dreamy. Lives
in a completely different world from Rösel.

Charles

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 2:02:51 PM10/30/10
to
In article
<c595d54e-031e-4fd2...@g13g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> It sure sounds like Moravecıs Nonsuch recording is good ­ but
> unfortunately I canıt hear it!

The "Live in Brussels" CD on Supraphon is material from the same period.
Op 76/2 and Op 79/2 appear on both. Of the two Op 118 pieces on the
disc, he had previously done Op 118/2 (exquisitely) for Connoisseur. Op
118/1 appears only here AFAIK.

> The Schliesman recording I was thinking of is the one with
> Kreisleriana and the Etudes.

And the Fantasy CD includes the Liszt sonata as its coupling.

> I wonder what you think of Yudina's Brahms. There are the late pieces
> and two Recordings of the Handel variations -- the better one I think
> is on Meldyia.

I like the HV on Melodiya, which is the only one I know. There's also an
Op 5, which I think came up here last spring.

SE.

mandryka

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 3:21:06 PM10/30/10
to
Op 76 is nice -- at least when Gieseking plays it. But maybe not when
Neuhaus plays it -- I think he sounds hard and he's too fast. And I
didn't find Gould very convincing in the couple he recorded, though I
can't remember why!

I know other pianists who have done odd ones from the set. Pogorelich
does one brilliantly, and it's very personal of course. Rubinstein did
one very nicely two, and Bashkirov did a couple.

Anyone else?-- I know Kempff recorded the whole set -- it's years
since I listened to it though. Probably it's pretty good.

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 4:55:37 PM10/30/10
to
In article
<c26b7a97-fb29-4aff...@a37g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
mandryka <howie...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Alexeev, who should have been mentioned long before now, does all of
Opus 76 in his exemplary set.

Firkusny recorded two of them. F's Brahms is well worth hearing,
although not sure how easy it is to find.

Katchen's complete Brahms naturally includes Op 76. Can it be that you
lack the Katchen box?

SE.

pianomaven

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 5:44:12 PM10/30/10
to

I recall a DG LP with John Lill playing Op. 76. Very good, indeed.

TD

Steve Emerson

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 5:45:07 PM10/30/10
to
In article
<93031b0b-d5fc-4063...@32g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
CharlesSmith <sigma....@ntlworld.com> wrote:

That has been my reservation about it too. But I have to admit, it has
grown on me. In part -- it seems a little more anchored, and a little
more gutsy and virile, when heard via the LP, which has a more robust
sound.

> Lives in a completely different world from Rösel.

[dunno Rosel]

SE.

wimpie

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 6:06:51 PM10/30/10
to

As far as I remember Fleisher only recorded the Handel Variations and
the Walzes op 39, but they are good!

W.

Ray Hall

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 9:40:56 PM10/30/10
to

Have this box. Thx for reminding me.

Ray Hall, Taree

mandryka

unread,
Oct 31, 2010, 3:07:27 PM10/31/10