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RE: in The Munch Box sets. A Major omission
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Pierre Paquin
Sep 10, 2011, 3:14:47 PM9/10/11
to
RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
recorded in 1961 on the floor of Symphony Hall with the spacious acoustic in
tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
same.... For what it's worth.
Pierre Paquin
www.HaydnHouse.com.
Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
recorded in 1961 on the floor of Symphony Hall with the spacious acoustic in
tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
same.... For what it's worth.
Pierre Paquin
www.HaydnHouse.com.
Bob Harper
Sep 10, 2011, 3:29:48 PM9/10/11
to
Pierre Paquin
Sep 10, 2011, 3:42:24 PM9/10/11
to
"Bob Harper" <bob.h...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
foot cue intrusions. Also, there are many Munch foot cues in the Dvorak 8th
which was recorded in 1961 also. I fixed all that for my personal use. I
wonder if this new CD version of the Dvorak was painstakenly tranferred?
Please let me know. BTW, the live 1961 BSO/Munch Dvorak 8th (private
stereo recording) is much better than the RCA session release, I mean MUCH
better.
I have the recent Munch box (harsh sounding at times) and intend to buy
the latest one.
Pierre
www.HaydnHouse.com.
Mark S
Sep 10, 2011, 4:21:28 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 12:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
What we can be certain of is that the Japanese version is a LEGAL
reissue done under license, while your version is an ILLEGAL BOOTLEG
that will steal royalties from the ARTISTS and the RIGHTFUL OWNERS of
the recordings.
pianomaven
Sep 10, 2011, 4:54:10 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 4:21 pm, Mark S <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 12:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> On Sep 10, 12:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
>
Correct.
TD
Matthew B. Tepper
Sep 10, 2011, 6:27:50 PM9/10/11
to
"Pierre Paquin" <p.pa...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:M4Paq.6882$sX1....@newsfe06.iad:
> True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> foot cue intrusions. Also, there are many Munch foot cues in the Dvorak
> 8th which was recorded in 1961 also.
By "foot cue," do you mean he stomps his foot on the podium, Lenny-style?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
following letters to be typed in news:M4Paq.6882$sX1....@newsfe06.iad:
> True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> foot cue intrusions. Also, there are many Munch foot cues in the Dvorak
> 8th which was recorded in 1961 also.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
R. Edwards
Sep 10, 2011, 7:43:42 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 3:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
The "foot cues" are there, Pierre.
Ray
> "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
Ray
pianomaven
Sep 10, 2011, 8:25:58 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 7:43 pm, "R. Edwards" <opu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 3:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> On Sep 10, 3:42 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bob Harper" <bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
>
So are Paul Paray's grunts and groans.
Music is an activity of humans. These are good reminders.
TD
Dave Cook
Sep 10, 2011, 8:49:42 PM9/10/11
to
On 2011-09-10, Pierre Paquin <p.pa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> foot cue intrusions.
I have the Japanese issue. I do here some odd thumps, but they don't
> True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> foot cue intrusions.
intrude on my enjoyment of the very fine recording.
Dave Cook
Dave Cook
Sep 10, 2011, 11:06:57 PM9/10/11
to
On Sep 10, 5:49 pm, Dave Cook <davec...@nowhere.net> wrote:
My system puts out a very generous amount of low bass, so others might
not notice the thumps at all.
Dave Cook
> On 2011-09-10, Pierre Paquin <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> > foot cue intrusions.
>
> I have the Japanese issue. I do here some odd thumps, but they don't
> intrude on my enjoyment of the very fine recording.
>
> Dave Cook
Er, I hear them, that is. I only noticed a few out of place thumps.
>
> > True Bob, but I wonder if this recording was processed to eliminate the
> > foot cue intrusions.
>
> I have the Japanese issue. I do here some odd thumps, but they don't
> intrude on my enjoyment of the very fine recording.
>
> Dave Cook
My system puts out a very generous amount of low bass, so others might
not notice the thumps at all.
Dave Cook
Pierre Paquin
Sep 11, 2011, 9:08:12 PM9/11/11
to
Pierre Paquin
Sep 11, 2011, 9:09:59 PM9/11/11
to
"R. Edwards" <opu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e086c7c9-4134-4675...@s12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
releases apparently.
Pierre
www.haydnhouse.com
Pierre Paquin
Sep 11, 2011, 9:15:53 PM9/11/11
to
"pianomaven" <1pian...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:113e6ffb-77d8-402f...@x32g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
posts) sound like a bass drum with a full range playback system.
As for the Pray grints and groans, the best of this is the Schumann
"Rhenish": on MLP and most prominent bwo the better mono LP version. Whcih
is just the single center mic and not a blend-down of the usual 3. More
dr too. One of my favorites. Thought you might be interest. If so, I'll
sedn youa copy on CD.
Pierre
Pierre Paquin
Sep 11, 2011, 9:20:38 PM9/11/11
to
"Dave Cook" <dav...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e27fb7a-9139-46ba...@x29g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
here.
I tried to lower the overall bass for hte transfer to minimize these
intrusions but the bass drum was minimized as well. So the long and arduous
prcess of "one by one" elimination was imposed. BSO/Munch Ravel Daphnis et
Chloé (1961)
Pierre
www.HaydnHouse.com
Pierre Paquin
Sep 11, 2011, 9:47:09 PM9/11/11
to
"Mark S" <markst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:209b4a22-f8a1-4cc9...@v16g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Mark S
Sep 11, 2011, 9:54:54 PM9/11/11
to
On Sep 11, 6:47 pm, "Pierre Paquin" <p.paq...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Mark S" <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Idiot and thief.
The ONLY acceptable answer is, "my release was legally licensed from
BMG."
Any other response is just a cowardly and disgusting attempt to smear
another company with the pirate label that hangs over the door of your
business. The Japanese release was done by BMG Japan, not by a fucking
pirate label like yours. Are you actually going to claim I "assume too
much" when I assume that HMV listing the record label as BMG Japan
means that the recording was licensed by BMG Japan from the home
office in NYC? Be careful here, as I worked in the home office in BMG
NYC and am well aware of the way the licensing process worked for
OpCos around the world.
God, you're a sleaze.
> "Mark S" <markstenr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
The ONLY acceptable answer is, "my release was legally licensed from
BMG."
Any other response is just a cowardly and disgusting attempt to smear
another company with the pirate label that hangs over the door of your
business. The Japanese release was done by BMG Japan, not by a fucking
pirate label like yours. Are you actually going to claim I "assume too
much" when I assume that HMV listing the record label as BMG Japan
means that the recording was licensed by BMG Japan from the home
office in NYC? Be careful here, as I worked in the home office in BMG
NYC and am well aware of the way the licensing process worked for
OpCos around the world.
God, you're a sleaze.
Dave Cook
Sep 11, 2011, 9:56:56 PM9/11/11
to
On 2011-09-12, Pierre Paquin <p.pa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I suspected correctly as usual. No "labor of love" with these Munch Box
> releases apparently.
I listened through the Daphnis yesterday, and I can't imagine any of
these sounds bothering any listeners, if they notice them at all.
Dave Cook
Steve de Mena
Sep 12, 2011, 12:39:40 PM9/12/11
to
On 9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
> in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> recorded in 1961
Thought RCA Japan released it in their Munch series about 5 years ago.
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
> in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> recorded in 1961
I have it. (RCA Japan Vol.36 BVCC-38463)
Steve
Steve de Mena
Sep 12, 2011, 12:40:49 PM9/12/11
to
Steve
Mark S
Sep 12, 2011, 12:58:22 PM9/12/11
to
On Sep 12, 9:40 am, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> On 9/10/11 12:42 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Bob Harper"<bob.har...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> On 9/10/11 12:42 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
>
>
>
> >news:MUOaq.16370$Ke.1...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
> >> On 9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> >>> RAVEL Daphnis et Chlo - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> >> On 9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> >>> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> >>>http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> >>> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chlo twice for RCA
> >>>http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
illegal bootleg.
He's getting craftier in his shilling - notice how he's learned not to
title a thread as "New Illegal Releases from HH." His new preference
is to use a thread title that may garner interest, then to bury his
advertisement in the middle of his sales pitch/post.
BTW - don't you find it hilarious that a person who claims that RCA
can't even be bothered to issue this 1961 Daphnis, that the Munch
titles they have issued haven't been "painstakingly" transferred, as
are PP's illegal issues ("No "labor of love" with these Munch Box
releases apparently," writes Pierre the Pirate King), who would have
us think that those awful people at BMG don't know what they have in
their vaults ("the preferred version"), and that if they do, they
can't be bothered to issue it, so it falls on Pierre - who does
painstaking, labor-of-love-transfers - to come to the rescue of the
music-loving public, cares so little about what BMG is issuing that he
can't be bothered to learn that BMG DID issue this recording on CD
NINE YEARS AGO, and that it is STILL IN PRINT ON CD in Japan, and may
be ordered from Japan by anybody in the world?
He's a clown. A sleazy clown, but still, a clown.
pianomaven
Sep 12, 2011, 12:56:09 PM9/12/11
to
On Sep 12, 12:39 pm, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
> On9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
>
> > RAVEL Daphnis et Chlo - Complete BSO/MUNCH
Did you ever get that elusive bonus CD, Steve?
TD
> On9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
>
> > RAVEL Daphnis et Chlo - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> > Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> >http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> > Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chlo twice for RCA Victor:
> >http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> > in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> > Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> > released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> > RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> > recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> > LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> > recorded in 1961
>
> Thought RCA Japan released it in their Munch series about 5 years ago.
> I have it. (RCA Japan Vol.36 BVCC-38463)
Correct.
> > Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> > released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> > RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> > recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> > LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> > recorded in 1961
>
> Thought RCA Japan released it in their Munch series about 5 years ago.
> I have it. (RCA Japan Vol.36 BVCC-38463)
Did you ever get that elusive bonus CD, Steve?
TD
Ed Presson
Sep 12, 2011, 3:55:28 PM9/12/11
to
"Steve de Mena" wrote in message
news:Q-mdnW5nPMtQqPPT...@giganews.com...
I also have the RCA Japan CD release as well as the open-reel tape of this
recording.
I don't see how starting with an open-reel tape
to produce a CD could really compete with the commercial release that is,
presumably,
derived from the master recording or a first generation copy of it.
Ed Presson
td
Sep 12, 2011, 6:00:28 PM9/12/11
to
On Sep 12, 3:55 pm, "Ed Presson" <pe...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Steve de Mena" wrote in messagenews:Q-mdnW5nPMtQqPPT...@giganews.com...
>
> On9/10/11 12:14 PM, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> "Steve de Mena" wrote in messagenews:Q-mdnW5nPMtQqPPT...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > RAVEL Daphnis et Chlo - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> > Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> >http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> > Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chlo twice for RCA
> >http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> > Victor:
> > in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony
> > Hall,
> > Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> > released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer
> > on
> > RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> > recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> > LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and
> > was
> > recorded in 1961
>
> Thought RCA Japan released it in their Munch series about 5 years ago.
> I have it. (RCA Japan Vol.36 BVCC-38463)
>
> Steve
>
> _____________
>
> I also have the RCA Japan CD release as well as the open-reel tape of this
> recording.
>
> I don't see how starting with an open-reel tape
> to produce a CD could really compete with the commercial release that is,
> presumably,
> derived from the master recording or a first generation copy of it.
The commercial release being the LP?
> > in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony
> > Hall,
> > Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> > released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer
> > on
> > RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> > recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> > LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and
> > was
> > recorded in 1961
>
> Thought RCA Japan released it in their Munch series about 5 years ago.
> I have it. (RCA Japan Vol.36 BVCC-38463)
>
> Steve
>
> _____________
>
> I also have the RCA Japan CD release as well as the open-reel tape of this
> recording.
>
> I don't see how starting with an open-reel tape
> to produce a CD could really compete with the commercial release that is,
> presumably,
> derived from the master recording or a first generation copy of it.
And you feel this is a better copy of the master tape than a CD copy
of that same master tape?
TD
Steve de Mena
Sep 12, 2011, 8:39:15 PM9/12/11
to
Steve
td
Sep 12, 2011, 8:50:30 PM9/12/11
to
trivia quite nicely.
TD
Ed Presson
Sep 12, 2011, 9:26:06 PM9/12/11
to
"td" wrote in message
news:79d5283a-9c3c-4bc6...@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Oh, lord no. I was trying to say that making a CD from an open-reel tape
would be inferior to a commercially released CD copy of the master tape.
Sorry for the ambiguity in my language.
Ed Presson
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 7, 2018, 2:00:17 PM3/7/18
to
On Saturday, September 10, 2011 at 9:14:47 AM UTC-10, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
- But both studio efforts are thoroughly eclipsed by a staggeringly vital July 28, 1961 concert that was issued all too briefly on a 1988 Music and Arts CD (before it was forced off the market under the apparent fear - highly justified - that it would overshadow the authorized studio products) in which orchestra and chorus, despite a few unavoidable slips, play their proverbial hearts out. The intensity is not derived from interpretive exaggerations or bizarre eccentricities. Rather, everything fits together just as it should, but with a heightened attention to expression and added jolts of vigor that have an overwhelming cumulative impact. Just consider the sunrise that opens Part III - it's not just a glorious wash of sound, but Technicolor, 3-D and I-Max. The fidelity is spectacular and the final minutes are emotionally draining. While we all fantasize over how we would improve a performance if only we were in charge, in this instance I simply cannot imagine a more effective rendition. And I'll give critics who still drench the Munch studio recording in superlatives the benefit of the doubt that they've simply never heard this live one. It's one of those astounding, soul-shaking experiences after which no other recording ever sounds quite the same. Beg, borrow or steal a copy (but not mine, please).
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics4/daphnis.html
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> recorded in 1961 on the floor of Symphony Hall with the spacious acoustic in
> tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
> well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
> House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
> commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
>
> My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
> overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
> attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
> Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
> deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
> reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
> of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
> same.... For what it's worth.
>
> Pierre Paquin
> www.HaydnHouse.com.
There is also a cd of a Munch live performance of the work:
> tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
> well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
> House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
> commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
>
> My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
> overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
> attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
> Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
> deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
> reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
> of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
> same.... For what it's worth.
>
> Pierre Paquin
> www.HaydnHouse.com.
- But both studio efforts are thoroughly eclipsed by a staggeringly vital July 28, 1961 concert that was issued all too briefly on a 1988 Music and Arts CD (before it was forced off the market under the apparent fear - highly justified - that it would overshadow the authorized studio products) in which orchestra and chorus, despite a few unavoidable slips, play their proverbial hearts out. The intensity is not derived from interpretive exaggerations or bizarre eccentricities. Rather, everything fits together just as it should, but with a heightened attention to expression and added jolts of vigor that have an overwhelming cumulative impact. Just consider the sunrise that opens Part III - it's not just a glorious wash of sound, but Technicolor, 3-D and I-Max. The fidelity is spectacular and the final minutes are emotionally draining. While we all fantasize over how we would improve a performance if only we were in charge, in this instance I simply cannot imagine a more effective rendition. And I'll give critics who still drench the Munch studio recording in superlatives the benefit of the doubt that they've simply never heard this live one. It's one of those astounding, soul-shaking experiences after which no other recording ever sounds quite the same. Beg, borrow or steal a copy (but not mine, please).
http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics4/daphnis.html
Ed Presson
Mar 8, 2018, 12:11:33 PM3/8/18
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wrote in message
news:e542b734-2b7b-4118...@googlegroups.com...
There is (was?) a live Munch/Daphnis recording on Memories that caught Munch
on a bad night, it seems to me. I hope it's not the same performance as the
one referenced above; if so, then I
must disagree about the performance and the sound. I'll have to see if the
date of performance is on that CD.
Ed Presson
Ed Presson
Mar 10, 2018, 11:45:19 PM3/10/18
to
"Ed Presson" wrote in message news:p7rqrv$230$1...@gioia.aioe.org...
The Memories CD date the performance as July 1961. It doesn't come close
the the description given above; but I have not heard the Music & Arts CD.
Ed Presson
hidalgofes
Mar 11, 2018, 6:10:45 AM3/11/18
to
__Memories cd is a reissue of the Music & arts CD (same coupling).___________________________
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 17, 2018, 5:17:37 PM3/17/18
to
On Saturday, September 10, 2011 at 9:14:47 AM UTC-10, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor..
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
He also recorded twice for RCA Victor:
- Prelude a L'Apres-midi...
- Symphonie Fantastique
In Munch's box sets, are both included?
ro...@verizon.net
Mar 18, 2018, 12:43:03 AM3/18/18
to
Berlioz Romeo and Juliet
Brahms 4th symphony
d'Indy symphony on a French mountain air
Mendelssohn violin concerto
Ravel Bolero
Ravel Daphnis et Chloe
Ravel La Valse (Three recordings!)
Ravel Pavane
Ravel Rapsodie espagnole
Saint-Saens Organ symphony
Schubert symphony no. 2
Schumann symphony no. 1
Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliet
Tchaikovsky Violin concerto
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 19, 2018, 4:33:59 AM3/19/18
to
On Saturday, September 10, 2011 at 9:14:47 AM UTC-10, Pierre Paquin wrote:
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> RAVEL Daphnis et Chloé - Complete BSO/MUNCH
> Recorded in Symphony Hall, Boston, 1961 - From an RCA STEREO tape
> http://www.haydnhouse.com/HH17.htm
>
> Charles Munch recorded The Ravel Daphnis and Chloé twice for RCA Victor:
> in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> recorded in 1961 on the floor of Symphony Hall with the spacious acoustic in
> tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
> well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
> House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
> commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
>
> My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
> overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
> attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
> Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
> deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
> reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
> of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
> same.... For what it's worth.
>
> Pierre Paquin
> www.HaydnHouse.com.
But didn't the LIVING STEREO BIBLE proclaim the '55 recording as Munch's best Living Stereo recording?
> in 1955 and in 1961. The 1955 version, recorded in stage in Symphony Hall,
> Boston, is readily available on CD and has been for nearly 20 years,
> released several times with the latest one being the incredible transfer on
> RCA SACD by Soundmirror in Boston. Securing the the more recent RCA
> recording is another matter entirely. It was never issued beyond the 1961
> LP and stereo tape release and to many, it is the preferred version and was
> recorded in 1961 on the floor of Symphony Hall with the spacious acoustic in
> tact and with wide and deep stereo imaging. The dynamic range is better as
> well. The performance is super Munch/BSO. We are grateful to an avid Haydn
> House customer for providing us with the super rare reel-to-reel RCA
> commercial tape to make the transfer to CD.
>
> My assessment (MHO) of the reason why this preferred version has been
> overlooked: RCA went all out technically for this 1961 performance. The an
> attempt to capture/enhance the the bottom bass sonics of the bass section,
> Munch, when giving a cue the orchestra with his foot, caused a series of
> deep bass drum effects and this problem could have forced RCA engineering to
> reject it for officila release on CD. With score in hand, we elimnated all
> of these intrusions on our tape to CD transfer. Would that RCA had done the
> same.... For what it's worth.
>
> Pierre Paquin
> www.HaydnHouse.com.
Ed Presson
Mar 19, 2018, 4:25:48 PM3/19/18
to
wrote in message
news:9b4479a3-f409-4599...@googlegroups.com...
reasons:
1. The 1961 recording has been issued on CD by RCA Japan, in the Munch box,
and I think I've seen
a domestic release of the individual CD.
2. Critics have always been divided since the release of the second
recording on the merits of the
two performances. Some liked the "chamber-like" sound of the 1955 and found
the performance more
"refined" than the 1961 recording, while others preferred the "full
orchestral power" of the latter. The
opinion in the Living Stereo Bible is just one more point of view.
Ed Presson
I can see both points, but prefer the 1961 recording
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