Re: OT: The U.S. is falling further behind China and Europe in electric-vehicle production

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Frank Berger

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Jun 30, 2021, 8:51:41 PMJun 30
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On 6/30/2021 7:08 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/the-us-is-falling-further-behind-china-and-europe-in-ev-production.html
>
> dk
>

I'm more worried about the mine shaft gap.
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Frank Berger

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Jun 30, 2021, 9:52:09 PMJun 30
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On 6/30/2021 9:00 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 8:51:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 6/30/2021 7:08 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/the-us-is-falling-further-behind-china-and-europe-in-ev-production.html
>>
>> I'm more worried about the mine shaft gap.
>
> ?!?!?
>
> dk
>

Dr. Strangelove reference. Never mind.

Owen

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Jun 30, 2021, 9:56:22 PMJun 30
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On 6/30/21 9:00 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 8:51:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>> I'm more worried about the mine shaft gap.
>
> ?!?!?
>
> dk
>

cf. Movie "Dr. Strangelove, or How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love
the Bomb"

-Owen

P.S. where will you get all this useless trivia after you retire??

-O

number_six

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Jun 30, 2021, 10:04:26 PMJun 30
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But he'll see everything -- he'll see the big board!
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Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 12:16:23 AMJul 1
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You can't fight in here, it's the War Room!

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 12:17:06 AMJul 1
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On 6/30/2021 10:55 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:56:22 PM UTC-4, Owen wrote:
>> On 6/30/21 9:00 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 8:51:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 6/30/2021 7:08 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/the-us-is-falling-further-behind-china-and-europe-in-ev-production.html
>>>>
>>>> I'm more worried about the mine shaft gap.
>>>
>>> ?!?!?
>>
>> cf. Movie "Dr. Strangelove, or How I learned
>> to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
>>
>> -Owen
>>
>> P.S. where will you get all this
>> useless trivia after you retire??
>
> I am only retiring from r.m.c.r.,
> not from other activities. I am
> frankly disappointed by what
> is going on lately in this ng.
>
> dk
>

So is everybody else.

Andy Evans

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Jul 1, 2021, 2:56:36 PMJul 1
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On Thursday, 1 July 2021 at 05:17:06 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>. I am
> > frankly disappointed by what
> > is going on lately in this ng.
> > > > dk
> >

> So is everybody else.

This is only a fraction of how disappointed thinking people are with the world situation in general.

Herman

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Jul 1, 2021, 3:05:05 PMJul 1
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On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 4:55:20 AM UTC+2, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> I am
> frankly disappointed by what
> is going on lately in this ng.
>
> dk

1 | Dan Koren | 804 | 1,907,369 | 55 | 19.28%

A large part of what's going on is your good self.
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Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 3:25:06 PMJul 1
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That's because their expectations are too great. Pipe-dreamers will always be disappointed.

Andy Evans

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Jul 1, 2021, 7:12:39 PMJul 1
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So it's a pipe dream to imagine that while the world is well on its way to self destruct, no thinking people from our so-called "advanced" human race are going to be able to stop international criminals like Trump, Bolsonaro and all the sorry rest of them from destroying the planet? At this crucial time in our history the majority of world leaders are greedy, incompetent narcissists and psychopaths and they just flat out don't care or are too stupid or warped to care. Plus nobody is stopping meat eaters, gas guzzlers, frequent flyers and all the other "ordinary citizens" who are blind to what's happening and too complacent to do anything about it.

If you think it's a pipe dream to imagine that anybody is going to stop this destruction from happening you live in a worse hell than the rest of us.
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Todd Michel McComb

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Jul 1, 2021, 7:31:37 PMJul 1
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In article <73e25723-14b4-4c05...@googlegroups.com>,
Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>At this crucial time in our history the majority of world leaders
>are greedy, incompetent narcissists and psychopaths and they just
>flat out don't care or are too stupid or warped to care.

Thinking & feeling are hard. Especially when things aren't going
well.

(So "bring on the easy answers!" is the way it seems to go.... Or
is it "a problem that can't be solved with a simple slogan isn't
worth solving!"? Something of that sort....)

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raymond....@gmail.com

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Jul 1, 2021, 7:45:07 PMJul 1
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The real problem Andy, is that these cesspools of criminals are getting elected. Most or nearly all of them should be behind bars, but they aren't. The dumbing down of the electorates that has put them in power hasn't just happened. It has taken time to evolve, and certain forces have stood silent and only been too pleased to see it happen.

Ray Hall, Taree

Todd Michel McComb

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Jul 1, 2021, 7:58:31 PMJul 1
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In article <d4812ee3-5332-47e3...@googlegroups.com>,
Dan Koren <dan....@gmail.com> wrote:
>There is a set of people who believe "free markets" solve all the
>problems without ever creating other problems.

That's been a popular slogan from the late 20th century....

But as long as we're on this topic, in a group with a historical
emphasis, the term "free market" meant something rather different
in the 17th century -- which is the previous period when people
were lamenting the loss of "free markets."

What did they mean by this? A market was a place, of course, and
a free market was a market where not only was everyone free to go,
but all transactions were public. In other words, people at that
time were lamenting the rise of private, secret transactions.

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 8:01:32 PMJul 1
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Who's going to stop the hysterics? I fear your pent-up anger will kill you long before anything environmental or viral. I hope not.

Personally, I only call people criminals who have actually violated laws, not just people who don't believe what I believe or don't act as I would have them act. Not believing in the coming environmental disaster or not believing that aggressive steps should be taken to flatten the curve may be wrong, may be stupid, but they are not irresponsible and certainly not criminal.

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 8:02:29 PMJul 1
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On 7/1/2021 7:23 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> Frank suffers from the typical libertarian delusion: free
> markets will naturally fix all problems by themselves,
> without anyone ever doing anything deliberately, other
> than competing for profits with everyone else. Sounds
> like a pipedream to me.
>
> dk
>

Not exactly, but pretty close.

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 8:03:38 PMJul 1
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On 7/1/2021 7:40 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> There is a set of people who believe "free markets"
> solve all the problems without ever creating other
> problems. It is just a different kind of pipedream.
>
> dk
>

Libertarians are not anarchists. If they were, they wouldn't be called libertarians. They would be called anarchists.

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 8:04:56 PMJul 1
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Maybe we should go back to only allowing property owners to vote.

Owen

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Jul 1, 2021, 9:22:29 PMJul 1
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On 6/30/21 10:41 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 9:56:22 PM UTC-4, Owen wrote:
>> On 6/30/21 9:00 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 30, 2021 at 8:51:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> On 6/30/2021 7:08 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>>>> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/the-us-is-falling-further-behind-china-and-europe-in-ev-production.html
>>>>
>>>> I'm more worried about the mine shaft gap.
>>>
>>> ?!?!?
>>
>> cf. Movie "Dr. Strangelove, or How I learned
>> to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"
>>
>> -Owen
>>
>> P.S. where will you get all this useless trivia after you retire??
>
> I am only retiring from r.n.c.r.,
> not from everything else I do.
>
> dk
>


Yes, but RMCR has much better useless trivia.

-Owen

Herman

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Jul 1, 2021, 9:22:51 PMJul 1
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 2:01:32 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:

>
> Personally, I only call people criminals who have actually violated laws, not just people who don't believe what I believe or don't act as I would have them act. Not believing in the coming environmental disaster or not believing that aggressive steps should be taken to flatten the curve may be wrong, may be stupid, but they are not irresponsible and certainly not criminal.

Largely I agree with this sentiment - not calling people you happen to disagree with / getting divorced from etc ad inf 'criminal'. However many of these leaders Andy was talking about do actually break laws; they generally don't get arrested because they are in positions of power. And they stay in power so as not to get arrested. Think Berlusconi, think Trump.

Frank Berger

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Jul 1, 2021, 10:07:14 PMJul 1
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I'm not sure what laws Trump has broken. Are you? I'm going to wait until he is charged with something and convicted.

Everybody's all upsed about Bill Cosby's conviction being vacated. All you hear is how "unjust" it is that he won't complete his sentence. You could say the outcome of his trial isn't just. But nobody seems to look at the bigger picture, which is that the trial process has to be just as well, and in the opinion of the PA Supreme Court, it wasn't. Making sure that the trial process is just is more important than whether Cosby serves his full sentence or not. The same people complaining about Cosby going free would celebrate a murderer going free because he wasn't read his Miranda rights.
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Bob Harper

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Jul 1, 2021, 11:38:36 PMJul 1
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Certainly on (say) tax increases.

Bob Harper

Bob Harper

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Jul 1, 2021, 11:39:53 PMJul 1
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On 7/1/21 8:23 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 10:07:14 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure what laws Trump
>> has broken. Are you? I'm going
>
> Presidents are held to higher
> standards than just barely
> not breaking statutory law.
>
>> to wait until he is charged with
>> something and convicted.
>
> Your wait may soon be over.
>
> dk
>
I very much doubt it.

Bob Harper

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 12:36:26 AMJul 2
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On 7/1/2021 11:23 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 10:07:14 PM UTC-4, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure what laws Trump
>> has broken. Are you? I'm going
>
> Presidents are held to higher
> standards than just barely
> not breaking statutory law.
>

That means you don't vote for them, not that you throw thwm in jail.


>> to wait until he is charged with
>> something and convicted.
>
> Your wait may soon be over.
>

I don't care one way or the other.


> dk
>

Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 3:45:16 AMJul 2
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 4:07:14 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/1/2021 9:22 PM, Herman wrote:
> > On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 2:01:32 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Personally, I only call people criminals who have actually violated laws, not just people who don't believe what I believe or don't act as I would have them act. Not believing in the coming environmental disaster or not believing that aggressive steps should be taken to flatten the curve may be wrong, may be stupid, but they are not irresponsible and certainly not criminal.
> >
> > Largely I agree with this sentiment - not calling people you happen to disagree with / getting divorced from etc ad inf 'criminal'. However many of these leaders Andy was talking about do actually break laws; they generally don't get arrested because they are in positions of power. And they stay in power so as not to get arrested. Think Berlusconi, think Trump.
> >
> I'm not sure what laws Trump has broken. Are you? I'm going to wait until he is charged with something and convicted.
>
During his time in office Trump c.s. contended he could not be charged because of presidential immunity.

To me throwing an ex-president in jail doesn't seem like a good aspiration either (btw who introduced the "lock her up! chant into national politics?), apart from the fact that Trump has all his life played the delay and stall game in the courts. However, if there is not some form of accountability there will be lasting damage to the system.
I know you're likely to say, the accountability is he did not get reelected. However, there are tens of millions of Americans who firmly believe, counter to all evidence, that T. did get reelected, and they are prepared to commit acts of mass violence to defend this assumption.

Andy Evans

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Jul 2, 2021, 4:07:58 AMJul 2
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On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 02:22:51 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> Largely I agree with this sentiment - not calling people you happen to disagree with / getting divorced from etc ad inf 'criminal'. However many of these leaders Andy was talking about do actually break laws; they generally don't get arrested because they are in positions of power. And they stay in power so as not to get arrested. Think Berlusconi, think Trump.

The vast majority of the world's population are acting as if "things will go back to normal" after the pandemic. That they can go on eating the meat that's destroying the Amazon rain forest, flying aeroplanes just for leisure and pleasure, using gas guzzling vehicles, polluting the oceans and the whole of the rest of the great basilica of folly that is destroying the planet. They may also hang on for a while longer to the idea that only people who break social laws are criminals. But we are about to experience a new world order where almost everything is going to change. Bolsonaro is a very good example of a "climate criminal". It will take a little time for world leaders and populations to get their heads around the idea that "crimes against the planet" are crucially serious and are becoming increasingly so. They will have to create new legislative bodies, sanctions and enforcement bodies to deal with this, just as we have created the International Criminal Court in 2002. Expecting the world to carry on for the next 50 years in the same way it is operating today is a blindness born of humans' poor ability to conceptualise the future and act on new concepts. But the science is all there - all you have to do is read it, understand it, and start figuring out how humans are going to have to change. OK, it's a mental leap that some are going to find easier than others, but at least make a start somewhere.

Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 5:54:49 AMJul 2
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 10:07:58 AM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:


> The vast majority of the world's population are acting as if "things will go back to normal" after the pandemic.

I'm not sure it's the vast majority of the world population, however there is critical mass and it's not moving in the right direction. And it's an intellectual failure to keep going on this way. People just don't give a shit. Some say science will think of something; other just don't believe in the science.

My daughter is fourteen years old. Her natural lifespan would reach to the year 2100-ish. I have no idea how that would look like, and I feel incredibly bad about it. When she's talking about having kids later, I wonder if that's even an option.

What I envision is tremendous shortage of resources as great big fires keep on devastating crops in a vicious cycle of dry spells and overheating; I envision mass migration and wars of competition for safe territories.

We (my gf and I) have stopped flying; we don't own an automobile, and we try not to be wasteful. However, that's completely useless, since we're only creating space for other folks to pollute some more. Just on a small scale it's obvious that the covid crisis has created a mood among people they're not giving a fuck anymore, and they're throwing away their beer cans and soft drink bottles where ever they are when they're done. The littering has increased enormously.

Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 5:58:11 AMJul 2
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 4:07:14 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:


> >
> I'm not sure what laws Trump has broken. Are you?

The phone call to Georgia's secretary of state, about finding 11.000 votes was recorded and is an excellent piece of evidence for breaking the law.

"Russia, if you're listening" is another case.

The speech on Penn Ave on Jan 6 is another clear case of incitement.

Andy Evans

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Jul 2, 2021, 6:11:28 AMJul 2
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On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 10:54:49 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> My daughter is fourteen years old. Her natural lifespan would reach to the year 2100-ish. I have no idea how that would look like, and I feel incredibly bad about it. When she's talking about having kids later, I wonder if that's even an option.
>
> What I envision is tremendous shortage of resources as great big fires keep on devastating crops in a vicious cycle of dry spells and overheating; I envision mass migration and wars of competition for safe territories.

That sounds about right to me. My son is 30 and he and his wife will have a lot to cope with in their lifetimes. I'm gutted, and in fact frightened, to think of the world they're all going to inherit.

JohnGavin

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Jul 2, 2021, 6:33:44 AMJul 2
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If you look back on all of human history on this planet you have to conclude that the pendulum swings back-and-forth between worst times and better and has always done so. We have had a relatively good run since the end of World War II. Everyone’s secret wish is to have the pendulum get stuck in the very best position, but that is never possible here.

As far as world leaders being corrupt and greedy, there’s an old saying that we basically get the leaders we deserve. You can’t escape the fact that the problem lies with the individual first and then the collective.

The problem is that the earth is not designed to fulfill peoples material desires to the point of satiation and permanent satisfaction. Too many people are chasing a dream that isn’t real. Human beings are smart enough to know that death is in inevitability and yet we all live as if it isn’t true. Most of humanity lives completely focused on the transient, missing the point, and guaranteeing the continued swing of the pendulum. It does seem like it’s not only continuing but it seems to be changing direction. A bit of good news mixed with the bad is that for those who are ready, more valuable lessons are learned in adverse conditions than in luxurious times.

Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 7:08:06 AMJul 2
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 12:11:28 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> My son is 30 and he and his wife will have a lot to cope with in their lifetimes. I'm gutted, and in fact frightened, to think of the world they're all going to inherit.

We feel the same way, alas. It's called conscience.

Andy Evans

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Jul 2, 2021, 7:13:56 AMJul 2
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On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 11:33:44 UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:
> As far as world leaders being corrupt and greedy, there’s an old saying that we basically get the leaders we deserve. You can’t escape the fact that the problem lies with the individual first and then the collective. The problem is that the earth is not designed to fulfill peoples material desires to the point of satiation and permanent satisfaction. Too many people are chasing a dream that isn’t real. >>

I don't have any data, but my impression is that "climate activists", i.e. people who are doing something active, like flying less, becoming vegan etc, are outnumbered by "do nothings" by....... I don't know, 1,000 to one, 100,000 to one. Just guessing wildly here but it's a big number. It's going to take a huge change in attitude by individuals to form a collective for climate action that is going to make any real change. And I think that climate activists are only going to feel any kind of confidence in change when they outnumber the do-nothings. That will take years. And then large groups of voters will have to vote in climate-active governments. That will take even longer since most of the world is led by military regimes or autocracies, so voting will have no effect. We are nowhere near creating a new category of "crimes against the planet" and it will take years for this to be set up and enacted. I'd estimate at least 5 more years of doing virtually nothing, while seas rise, heatwaves spread, storms become much worse and water shortage, fires and desertification cut down crop yield. After 5 years of this the world's population will be in no doubt that something is happening, if only because of mass migration, but they probably won't know what to do about it and will still cling onto the idea that our clever race will find some miracle solution.........

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 9:24:45 AMJul 2
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The only thing I object to in your statement is that you didn't mention a particular crime for which he can be charged. I didn't like the "Lock her up" stuff and I don't like it now. We don't throw people in jail because we don't like them.

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 9:26:43 AMJul 2
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And you think the best start would be to throw Trump in jail?

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 9:40:00 AMJul 2
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You could trip over one of those beer cans and break your neck.

I think the fear mongers have painted such a bleak picture that a lot of people think the sacrifices necessary to avert it are not feasible or just not acceptable. Combined with a hope that science will come to the rescue and you get inaction, right or wrong.

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 9:43:17 AMJul 2
to
On 7/2/2021 5:58 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 4:07:14 AM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> I'm not sure what laws Trump has broken. Are you?
>
> The phone call to Georgia's secretary of state, about finding 11.000 votes was recorded and is an excellent piece of evidence for breaking the law.
>

The request may not have been explicit enough to convince a jury. I don't know.


> "Russia, if you're listening" is another case.
>

That was a joke. We don't throw people in jail for jokes. At least, not yet. Even if they're Republicans.



> The speech on Penn Ave on Jan 6 is another clear case of incitement.
>

Same comment as above. We have mostly free speech. SCOTUS cases have set the bar vary high for incitement, as I recall.

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 10:18:21 AMJul 2
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On 7/2/2021 6:33 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 6:11:28 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 10:54:49 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
>>> My daughter is fourteen years old. Her natural lifespan would reach to the year 2100-ish. I have no idea how that would look like, and I feel incredibly bad about it. When she's talking about having kids later, I wonder if that's even an option.
>>>
>>> What I envision is tremendous shortage of resources as great big fires keep on devastating crops in a vicious cycle of dry spells and overheating; I envision mass migration and wars of competition for safe territories.
>> That sounds about right to me. My son is 30 and he and his wife will have a lot to cope with in their lifetimes. I'm gutted, and in fact frightened, to think of the world they're all going to inherit.
>
>
> If you look back on all of human history on this planet you have to conclude that the pendulum swings back-and-forth between worst times and better and has always done so. We have had a relatively good run since the end of World War II. Everyone’s secret wish is to have the pendulum get stuck in the very best position, but that is never possible here.
>
> As far as world leaders being corrupt and greedy, there’s an old saying that we basically get the leaders we deserve. You can’t escape the fact that the problem lies with the individual first and then the collective.

An observation that always falls on deaf ears. The greater the concentration of power (big government, especially but not limited to totalitarian government), the greater the possibility of corruption. This is one of the main reasons for preferring small government.

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 10:21:34 AMJul 2
to
You've read all the sci-fi stories. The disaster is inevitable. Why worry? Enjoy life while you can. I guess when you decided to have children you weren't so smart about the bleak future or didn't care about bringing children into a doomed world.

Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 10:41:17 AMJul 2
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 4:21:34 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:

> >
> You've read all the sci-fi stories. The disaster is inevitable. Why worry? Enjoy life while you can. I guess when you decided to have children you weren't so smart about the bleak future or didn't care about bringing children into a doomed world.

Thanks, Frank.

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 10:54:15 AMJul 2
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Happy to help.

gggg gggg

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Jul 2, 2021, 12:44:56 PMJul 2
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Herman

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Jul 2, 2021, 3:41:12 PMJul 2
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https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/07/how-to-live-in-a-climate-permanent-emergency.html

Climate change scientists look at the heat dome over the Pac NW as the beginning of irreversible change, much sooner than expected.
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Todd Michel McComb

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Jul 2, 2021, 4:23:00 PMJul 2
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In article <1eb6a0b0-3367-45aa...@googlegroups.com>,
JohnGavin <dag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>You can't escape the fact that the problem lies with the individual
>first and then the collective.

That's a typical Western attitude, but it simply isn't true.

The collective forges the individual. (And this society forges
individuals with very bad ideas about how to live.)

raymond....@gmail.com

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Jul 2, 2021, 8:08:03 PMJul 2
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An attitude that encapsulates the thoughts of people like yourself. No consideration for others, no thoughts about trying to prolong the inevitable - just rape, burn and slash while you can. Pitiful.

Ray Hall, Taree

Frank Berger

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Jul 2, 2021, 8:10:04 PMJul 2
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So is your sense of humor.

raymond....@gmail.com

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Jul 2, 2021, 9:13:35 PMJul 2
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On Saturday, 3 July 2021 at 10:10:04 UTC+10, Frank Berger wrote:
Makes two us then.

Ray Hall, Taree

John Fowler

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Jul 2, 2021, 10:21:41 PMJul 2
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Electric vehicle production is pointless without a massive increase in electricity production.
Unless of course you live in a place like Bedrock where cars are powered by feet. Yabba-dabba-doo.

Bob Harper

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Jul 2, 2021, 11:32:32 PMJul 2
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On 7/2/21 7:21 PM, John Fowler wrote:
(snip)
>
> Electric vehicle production is pointless without a massive increase in electricity production.
> Unless of course you live in a place like Bedrock where cars are powered by feet. Yabba-dabba-doo.
>
And the only way that desideratum will be achieved is by a massive
increase in the use of nuclear energy to produce electricity. Read
'Apocalypse Never' by Micheal Shellenberger to get a reality check.

Bob Harper

John Fowler

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Jul 3, 2021, 9:10:56 AMJul 3
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Though Germany is happy to import massive amounts of oil and gas from Russia.

number_six

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Jul 3, 2021, 10:38:49 AMJul 3
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Gazprom was prominent in the advertising signage at the Euro quarterfinal match held yesterday in Munich...

Bob Harper

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Jul 3, 2021, 11:56:50 AMJul 3
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No doubt. Germany's move away from nuclear power will be seen to have
been a massive own goal.

Bob Harper

raymond....@gmail.com

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Jul 3, 2021, 11:58:24 AMJul 3
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raymond....@gmail.com

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Jul 3, 2021, 12:01:50 PMJul 3
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On Sunday, 4 July 2021 at 01:56:50 UTC+10, Bob Harper wrote:
Nuclear energy, used with solar and wind resources, is the way to go, imho.

Ray Hall, Taree

Bob Harper

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Jul 3, 2021, 1:17:12 PMJul 3
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Given the costs of wind--unsightly wind farms and dead birds--to name
only two issues, and solar--massive amounts of land required and
screwing up wildlife habitat, together with the fact that they will
never be able to cover reliable base load (can a big enough battery be
built?:)), I find them much less desirable than nukes. And I'm hopeful
that we crack the fusion nut one of these years. Then the biggest
problem will be the grid, which will require very large investments.

Bob Harper

Andy Evans

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Jul 3, 2021, 4:03:07 PMJul 3
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On Saturday, 3 July 2021 at 18:17:12 UTC+1, Bob Harper wrote:
I'm hopeful that we crack the fusion nut one of these years. Then the biggest
> problem will be the grid, which will require very large investments.
> > Bob Harper

Energy is only part of the issue. The world will have to stop eating meat, for several reasons - the destruction of rain forests, the methane emissions of cattle, the wastefulness of feeding crops to animals, the energy consumed in bringing meat to markets... it goes on, and that's without diseases passed on by animals and the damage done to antibiotic effectiveness through using them on cattle. Not at all difficult for vegetarians, but it will be a big shift for meat eaters, who will do all in their power - together with the multinationals - to preserve the meat industry. Expect many outraged cries of "individual liberties" and "nanny state"......

Bob Harper

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Jul 3, 2021, 4:13:05 PMJul 3
to
Andy, you really need to read Shellenberger's book. He addresses this
'problem' at length.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=apocalypse+never&crid=1P0RB97I55N6V&sprefix=apocalypse+never%2Caps%2C306&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_16

I believe your fears are overblown.

Bob Harper


gggg gggg

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Jul 3, 2021, 5:00:35 PMJul 3
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Instead of using genetic engineering to create blond blue-eyed babies, shouldn't it be used to create future generations who consume less and who are also more disease-resistant in anticipation of a world swarming with even more diseases?

Herman

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Jul 3, 2021, 10:41:14 PMJul 3
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On Saturday, July 3, 2021 at 10:13:05 PM UTC+2, Bob Harper wrote:


>
> I believe your fears are overblown.

haha, yes, everything will be just fine!
please buy a bigger car.

Bob Harper

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Jul 3, 2021, 11:33:39 PMJul 3
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Don't want one, but I encourage everyone to follow the instruction on
the cover of 'The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'.

(OT) Wasn't England splendid today?

Bob Harper
Message has been deleted

gggg gggg

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Jul 4, 2021, 11:31:55 AMJul 4
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 3:11:28 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 10:54:49 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> > My daughter is fourteen years old. Her natural lifespan would reach to the year 2100-ish. I have no idea how that would look like, and I feel incredibly bad about it. When she's talking about having kids later, I wonder if that's even an option.
> >
> > What I envision is tremendous shortage of resources as great big fires keep on devastating crops in a vicious cycle of dry spells and overheating; I envision mass migration and wars of competition for safe territories.
> That sounds about right to me. My son is 30 and he and his wife will have a lot to cope with in their lifetimes. I'm gutted, and in fact frightened, to think of the world they're all going to inherit.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-miami-building-collapse-and-humanitys-tragic-fight-for-the-future/

gggg gggg

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Jul 4, 2021, 12:28:34 PMJul 4
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On Friday, July 2, 2021 at 3:11:28 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 2 July 2021 at 10:54:49 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> > My daughter is fourteen years old. Her natural lifespan would reach to the year 2100-ish. I have no idea how that would look like, and I feel incredibly bad about it. When she's talking about having kids later, I wonder if that's even an option.
> >
> > What I envision is tremendous shortage of resources as great big fires keep on devastating crops in a vicious cycle of dry spells and overheating; I envision mass migration and wars of competition for safe territories.
> That sounds about right to me. My son is 30 and he and his wife will have a lot to cope with in their lifetimes. I'm gutted, and in fact frightened, to think of the world they're all going to inherit.

Didn't Wagner believe that humankind was self-destructive?

Herman

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Jul 4, 2021, 1:29:20 PMJul 4
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On Sunday, July 4, 2021 at 6:28:34 PM UTC+2, quote bot wrote:

> Didn't Wagner believe that humankind was self-destructive?

So fucking what? I know you're just a robot, but the newer models can actually act like a human.

Todd Michel McComb

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Jul 4, 2021, 2:27:15 PMJul 4
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In article <b7c430e2-cce4-4b90...@googlegroups.com>,
Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Climate change scientists look at the heat dome over the Pac NW
>as the beginning of irreversible change, much sooner than expected.

And don't forget the Mass Extinction Event that's well underway.
Clearly irreversible. (Repercussions pending.)

gggg gggg

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Jul 4, 2021, 2:33:19 PMJul 4
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Todd Michel McComb

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Jul 4, 2021, 4:50:52 PMJul 4