Rudolf Serkin - to buy some or not?
Andy Evans
not bother too much - I have a lot of Richter, Horowitz, Gilels, Arrau,
Rosen, Sofronitsky, Rubinstein etc etc.
If I did want to buy one or two of his best recordings what would you
suggest?
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165101840....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I'm not much of an RS fan, but I think his recordings of the Brahms
concertos show him at his best. His Bartok PC1 with Szell is also quite
fine.
Offhand, I can't think of any solo performances of his that I have in my
collection, or particularly want.
Russ (not Martha)
pgaron
One that came out fairly recently that I have greatly enjoyed is
Serkin's live performances of Beethoven's piano concertos and Choral
Fantasy, with Rafael Kubelik conducting the Bavarian RSO. This was
issued about a year ago on the Orfeo label. These were recorded in
Munich in 1977.
pgaron
Todd Schurk
I'll second that! A very fine effort that seemed to bring out the best
in both Kubelik & Serkin-a great cycle of the Beethoven concerti.
Phil Caron
news:1165101840....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
style that is rarely heard.
Recordings I like:
The 1952 Waldstein, recently re-released, probably my favorite Serkin
recording.
The 1957 Diabellis on Sony
The mid-'60s Brahms concertos with Szell on Sony, one of my favorite
versions of #2.
The 1957 Appassionata on Ermitage (ERM110)
The 1969 Hammerklavier on Sony (won't be everyone's cup of tea.)
Mozart #20 from 1961 with Szell on Sony
The 1976 Schubert D.960 on Sony
The 1948 Chopin Op. 25 set, reissued by Sony (was in the Osford bio) (same
comment as after Hammerklavier)
Avoid the later Waldstein. Really avoid the late Beethoven sonatas on DG.
The Sony 3-fer of Beethoven sonatas is a mixed bag.
- Phil Caron
Mark Melson
<performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
I love Serkin's recordings of the Mendelssohn Concerti with Ormandy on
Sony Essential Classics. They are full-blooded, headlong performances,
quite the opposite of HIP, and very exciting, with excellent,
well-cushioned accompaniments by Ormandy and his Philadelphians.
I concur that Szell's Brahms Concerti with Szell are worth hearing. I
can also strongly recommend a private mastering available through a
regular contributor to this newsgroup of the Mozart and Beethoven
piano and wind quintets (with Philadelphia Orchestra principals) from
the early 1950s. These feature the most sensitive pianism I have ever
heard from Serkin and the most magical performances of this music I
have ever heard from anyone - this disc is treasurable.
Mark Melson
david...@aol.com
> I was reflecting that I had no Rudolf Serkin today. Should I buy any or
> not bother too much - I have a lot of Richter, Horowitz, Gilels, Arrau,
> Rosen, Sofronitsky, Rubinstein etc etc.
Apparently unlike most people at rmcr, I think Rudolf Serkin was one of
the very greatest pianists, and I have plenty of recordings of Mozart,
Beethoven, and Schubert with Serkin in my collection. If I still
listened to the Brahms piano concertos, I'd replace my Serkin LP's
with Serkin CD's. Along with Robert Casadesus and Charles Rosen,
Serkin is one of my very favorite pianists: if Casadesus' playing is
the most elegant of the three and Rosen's is characterized by the
most old fashioned conception of rubato, Serkin's is the most
austere. (Not that I'm not interested in older "historic"
figures, including Schnabel and Lipatti, but most of the stereo
recordings of Casadesus and Serkin were still in print when I started
buying LP's in the 70's and don't seem "historic" to me.
They're my daily bread.)
> If I did want to buy one or two of his best recordings what would you
> suggest?
If I could only keep one Serkin recording, it would probably be his CBS
recording of Schubert's last piano sonata. I have no idea whether it's
been released in the States, but it was available on French Sony. By
this point, I think all of Serkin's recordings of Mozart Piano
Concertos with Schneider, Szell, and Ormandy conducting have been
reissued on CD. The Waldstein Sonata from the early 50's is
magnificent and there are two terrific recordings of the Diabelli
Variations. But you also have to explore recordings from earlier in
Serkin's career, especially of chamber music, from when he was still
in the Busch orbit. The recordings made for DG at the end of his
career are best avoided.
-david gable
Todd Schurk
The Quintets disc you mentioned is also available from Sony in an
"official" release in the Serkin "Art of Interpretation" edition.
Thornhill
If his Brahms: Piano Concerto No.1 with Szell/Cleveland doesn't win you
over, I'm not sure what will. The Essential Classics release of the
recording comes with terrific Schumann and Mendelssohn filler.
Also get his Schubert D.960
I'm personally a big fan of his Beethoven; for $20 you can get a five
disc set of all his authorized Beethoven piano sonata recordings.
(the above is all on Sony)
Avoid his DG recordings.
O
Thornhill <seth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andy Evans wrote:
> > I was reflecting that I had no Rudolf Serkin today. Should I buy any or
> > not bother too much - I have a lot of Richter, Horowitz, Gilels, Arrau,
> > Rosen, Sofronitsky, Rubinstein etc etc.
> >
> > If I did want to buy one or two of his best recordings what would you
> > suggest?
>
> If his Brahms: Piano Concerto No.1 with Szell/Cleveland doesn't win you
> over, I'm not sure what will. The Essential Classics release of the
> recording comes with terrific Schumann and Mendelssohn filler.
Better yet, look for it on LP for much cleaner, less muddy sound. Same
with Concerto No. 2.
-Owen
david...@aol.com
What's this? Dan Koren leaves and all of us Serkin fans crawl out from
under a rock?
-david gable
Steve Emerson
"Andy Evans" <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Chamber music. Brahms, Schubert, Beethoven. With the Busch Quartet or
its members, or just Adolph. Schubert Trio #2 and Violin Fantasy D. 934,
Brahms horn trio not the one with Bloom but Aubrey Brain with Busch --
three that pretty much sweep their fields. Also Schumann quintet with
Budapest. Beethoven cello sonatas with Casals.
Those substantially surpass any solo recordings that I've heard, not
that I don't know some worthy ones.
Piano solo, how are your Bashkirov holdings? More worth the effort, in
my view, than solo Serkin.
SE.
Bob Harper
(snip)
> I really enjoyed, shortly after, the Mozart PC 19/20...this has a
> wonderful 'rightness' too it - a no-nonsense interpretation...complete
> with more than a few 'sniffs' - a trait of his!
> (snip)
Yes. And Szell's not bad, either.
Bob Harper
puddingfree
to Youngrok LEE's discography:
http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Serkin/discography-serkin.htm ) that
collected some shorter pieces (brahms, schubert, mozart, etc),
including his 1952 Moments Musicaux recording. If there was a CD
eqivalent to this I'd say start there (the Moments Musicaux appeared on
a Sony France CD with the Schumann Piano Concerto, maybe not the ideal
coupling).
>From the other postings, which so far everyone seems to be in cordial
agreement, it seems he excelled in collaboration, either in concertos
(with Szell, Ormandy, Kubelik, and don't forget Alexander
Schneider...and maybe do forget Ozawa), or in chamber (with Busch,
natch).
California Dan
david...@aol.com
Sony. More recently, K. 459 and K. 466 have been re-released in a
so-called "expanded edition" with the recordings now misleadingly
described as "direct stream digital" recordings. How vast is the
improvement in sound? I might ask the same question about the expanded
edition featuring the "Moonlight," "Pathetique," and
"Appassionata" sonatas and "Les Adieux."
-david gable
Gerard
> Andy Evans wrote:
> > I was reflecting that I had no Rudolf Serkin today. Should I buy
> > any or not bother too much - I have a lot of Richter, Horowitz,
> > Gilels, Arrau, Rosen, Sofronitsky, Rubinstein etc etc.
> >
> > If I did want to buy one or two of his best recordings what would
> > you suggest?
>
> If his Brahms: Piano Concerto No.1 with Szell/Cleveland doesn't win
> you over, I'm not sure what will.
The Serkin recording did not do that for me. I knew already the recording by
Curzon/Szell (Decca) and I have always preferred that one.
Gerard
> What's this? Dan Koren leaves and all of us Serkin fans crawl out
> from under a rock?
>
Brendel, Perahia and Häbler fans will follow.
makropulos
is the one of the Mendelssohn Concertos that's already been mentioned -
a really wonderful record, I think. Then there's a very exciting and
intense Brahms Piano Quintet with the Budapest (just reissued by Sony),
the Brahms Concertos with Szell, several Mozarts with Szell, and the
finest performance I know of the Brahms C major Trio (with Adolf and
Hermann Busch), coupled with the Beethoven Ghost Trio. Those have been
or are still on Sony. The high praise for the Beethoven cycle with
Kubelik on Orfeo is something I'd also echo strongly - it's enormously
enjoyable.
William Sommerwerck
electrifying.
But I never accumulated enough RS to have a strong opinion about his work. I
do remember that his lavishly praised Hammerklavier of 30 years ago
disappointed me.
William Sommerwerck
Agreed. Forgot that.
Phil Caron
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1165106616.2...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> there are two terrific recordings of the Diabelli
> Variations.
Two? Did I miss that Sony has released the 1967 recording??
- Phil Caron
tomdeacon
Good to hear that you support Rudolf Serkin.
He was one of the most influential pianists on my own view of music.
His Hammerklavier Sonata, his Moonlight sonata - which I heard many
times in person - were simply divine experiences. Not literally, of
course, but hard to beat.
The Serkin on record question is more thorny. His "tone" was always on
the hard side, slightly edgy, even when playing American Steinways. He
was not really a "tonalist" in the manner of many Russian-schooled
pianists. He went at the meaning of music through its structure, its
harmonic and melodic language. So, you will often hear derogatory
remarks about his sound at the piano. But this is natural. He wasn't
trying to make what one calls "beautiful sounds" at the keyboard. You
might call his sound "craggy", and yet, when I think of the first
movement of the Moonlight in person, I think I have never heard softer,
more sensuous sounds drawn from a piano than from Rudolf Serkin. And
his slow movement from the Hammerklavier was an experience I would wish
that all music-lovers had experienced at least once in their lives.
In any event, this sound of his, such as it was, craggy, rough-hewn,
but also potentially very lovely indeed, did not receive the best
recordings from the engineers at Columbia Records. They always produced
piano recordings which were on the brilliant side anyway. Casadesus,
Rosen, and Serkin, to to speak of Horowitz and Glenn Gould, of course,
got the Columbia treatment. The sound was always hard, brittle. So,
Serkin's naturally craggy sound was amplified in the Columbia
recordings.
Still, I manage to listen beyond the limitations of those recordings to
hear the musician who so influenced my understanding of Beethoven and
Mozart and Brahms and yes, even of Chopin, whose Preludes I heard with
Serkin in Paris at the Salle Gaveau (I was on the stage of that little
hall, which was naturally packed to the rafters). When I talked to
Serkin he said his favourite musical experience was playing Haydn trios
with his friends.
Incidentally, some have mentioned his Brahms Concerti with Szell. I
recognize the qualities of those versions, but actually I tend to
prefer the work he did with Eugene Ormandy in these same two concerti.
TD
tomdeacon
david...@aol.com wrote:
> What's this? Dan Koren leaves and all of us Serkin fans crawl out from
> under a rock?
Some of us were never intimidated by Koren, dead or alive, as you know
full well.
TD
david...@aol.com
tomdeacon wrote:
> and yet, when I think of the first
> movement of the Moonlight in person, I think I have never heard softer,
> more sensuous sounds drawn from a piano than from Rudolf Serkin. And
> his slow movement from the Hammerklavier was an experience I would wish
> that all music-lovers had experienced at least once in their lives.
Serkin's austerity and a certain kind of reticence actually contributed
to the emotional impact of his performances. In the slow movement of
Schubert's last sonata, for example, it's as if the restraint can
barely contain what in fact turns out to be a surfeit of emotion as the
movement unfolds. I'm not sure I can make clear what I mean by this,
and 95% of the effect that I have in mind would be apparent from
anybody's performance of the movement, but Serkin's overall strictness
makes the least local detail have all the greater impact, and it's a
bit as if Serkin holds on to the underlying trajectory to avoid a total
meltdown. The same could be said of Schubert's performance.
-david gable
Curtis Croulet
> recognize the qualities of those versions, but actually I tend to
> prefer the work he did with Eugene Ormandy in these same two concerti.
So do I.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
Todd Schurk
And I gladly count myself as one of those Tom. Todd
Steve Emerson
"david...@aol.com" <david...@aol.com> wrote:
> What's this? Dan Koren leaves and all of us Serkin fans crawl out from
> under a rock?
The idea that Koren left (or as Tom for some reason keeps so drolly
putting it, died) -- is overrated; he popped in about a week ago.
--Office of the Census.
Ulvi Yurtsever
news:1165106616.2...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> The recordings made for DG at the end of his
> career are best avoided.
Generally true, but at least one (Brahms cello sonatas
with Rostropovich) remains my favorite.
Ulvi
tomdeacon
As we found with that guy Jesus, the dead have a habit of rising
occasionally, if only to prove that they are not dead but "risen".
TD
Bob Lombard
"tomdeacon" <tomde...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:1165280493....@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
bl
skro...@yahoo.com
> > > If I did want to buy one or two of his best recordings what would you
I also agree re his Brahms recordings with Ormandy (of course Ormandy
had quite different characteristics from Szell in Brahms), and can
imagine that a Serkin playing the Chopin Preludes would be fascinating.
skro...@yahoo.com
He also recorded d. 960 for CBS as part of his 75th birthday
celebrations; I may prefer it for its greater freedom. Agree that
Serkin's Schubert are among his very best recordings (I usually much
prefer him live though). Also, the Handel variations and solo Brahms
are most compelling.
Martin Altschwager
>
> I also agree re his Brahms recordings with Ormandy (of course Ormandy
> had quite different characteristics from Szell in Brahms), and can
> imagine that a Serkin playing the Chopin Preludes would be fascinating.
Why not hear for yourself? Sony recently released (for the first time, I
believe) Serkin's mid-1970s studio performance of the Préludes. (amazon.com:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ygeop8)
M.A.
Norman M. Schwartz
"Martin Altschwager" <not.f...@server.com> wrote in message
news:4578365a$0$27617$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net...
> M.A.
>
skro...@yahoo.com
two previous posters!
skro...@yahoo.com
I don't suppose while we're at it that there is a Rudolf Serkin
Goldberg Variations available (I did see the release with the Italian
concerto and Chromatic Fantasy)?
Phil Caron
news:1165617917.6...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I don't suppose while we're at it that there is a Rudolf Serkin
>Goldberg Variations available (. . . .)?
Only the aria, unfortunately.
- Phil Caron
Martin Altschwager
>
> <skro...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> >
> > I don't suppose while we're at it that there is a Rudolf
> > Serkin Goldberg Variations available (. . . .)?
>
> Only the aria, unfortunately.
Well, according to the Serkin discography on the web that I'm aware of
(http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Serkin/discography-serkin.htm), there's a
complete recording of the Goldbergs dating back to 1928, released on CD by a
label called Archiphon (ARC 105).
However, I'm not sure this is correct, since the discography in the
Lehmann/Faber biography only lists the aforementioned Aria from the
1970's...
M.A.
Gabriel Parra
I would have to join in the Serkin love-fest. Give me one Serkin
performance over ten of Horowitz any day (even if I have largely come
around to the latter relatively recently, although certainly not his
god-awful Beethoven--anyone ever hear his Op. 101? Embarrassing, to say
the least). Although I tend to be a "sensualist" when it comes to
music, beguiled by the beauty of sound of this or that pianist (hence
my appreciation for Arrau, for instance), Serkin may not have been a
natural pianist, but what a damned fine musician (ala Schnabel, but
Schnabel's chops as a pianist are terribly underrated). Even in
Serkin's late DG recordings there are moments, sometimes entire
sentences and paragraphs, that are irreplaceable. For me, Serkin is the
pianist Brendel probably has always wished he could have been: both
these pianists have always been pigeon-holed in the "intellectual"
camp--whatever that means--and neither could ever be described as
"colorists," but there is a certain frozen fire to Serkin's pianism
that can make some of his performances into truly shattering
experiences. That's what's wonderful about Serkin: his intellect is
used to ultimately yield great emotional benefits--that restraint of
which Gable speaks--while Brendel's analytical bent either makes him
dull or self-conscious when he is trying too hard to be "emotional."
Quite simply, Serkin's Beethoven, Schubert and Brahms--solo, chamber
and orchestral--reside at the very pinnacle of interpretive genius,
while surprisingly, much of his Mozart can be put right up there as
well.
Phil Caron
Wow, and thanks for the link. Time for some hunting . . .
- Phil Caron
Martin Altschwager
>
> "Martin Altschwager" <not.f...@server.com> wrote...
> >
> > Well, according to the Serkin discography on the web that I'm aware of
> > (http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Serkin/discography-serkin.htm), there's
> > a complete recording of the Goldbergs dating back to 1928, released
> > on CD by a label called Archiphon (ARC 105).
> >
> > However, I'm not sure this is correct, since the discography in the
> > Lehmann/Faber biography only lists the aforementioned Aria from
> > the 1970's...
>
> Wow, and thanks for the link. Time for some hunting . . .
By now you've surely found this site: http://www.archiphon.de/105-e.htm
Quick summary for the non-hunters:
- These recordings are made from Welte-Mignon rolls from 1928.
- The Goldbergs are coupled with Schuberts Sonata D. 958 and the Chopin
Etudes Opp. 10/1, 25/2 and 25/11.
- The CD is out of print, but the page provides an e-mail address of a
person who can get you a CD-R copy of this.
M.A.
david...@aol.com
http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/Serkin/serkin-e.htm
-david gable