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Favourite Parsifal?
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Andy Evans
Jul 30, 2017, 2:26:06 PM7/30/17
to
What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Randy Lane
Jul 30, 2017, 3:36:29 PM7/30/17
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My faves (aside from Knas) include Goodall (EMI/Warner) and Boulez (DG).
I wish a Klemperer performance had been preserved. The music seems to fit his style like a glove.
I wish a Klemperer performance had been preserved. The music seems to fit his style like a glove.
Ricardo Jimenez
Jul 30, 2017, 4:04:31 PM7/30/17
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from regietheater productions. Has anyone seen one that they
especially liked.
Rich Sauer
Jul 30, 2017, 7:58:54 PM7/30/17
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Solti/VPO. Kollo is ok- certainly better than Peter Hofmann for Karajan. The rest of Solti's cast is superior, particularly Frick and Kelemen. The latter , Zoltan Kelemen, had a memorable voice-a laser-like bass-baritone with no trace of wobble. Solti's conducting in Act II (Klingsor's Magic Castle and The Flowermaidens) is riveting. Lots of intellectuals have fun with Parsifal.. In 2006 Susan Sontag wrote an experimental text (whatever that is) titled "A Parsifal" She begins with the one line from "Parsifal" that all modernists go ga-ga over- "they say time becomes space" .. Some of you will remember how Boulez pondered this line in his essay on the Master's last work. Finally I heard a talk by Franz Welser-Most, where he said (I'm not kidding) that in the line "Here time becomes space", Wagner anticipated Einstein. The audience began laughing, and Welser-Most was taken aback.
Rich
Rich
wkasimer
Jul 30, 2017, 8:49:36 PM7/30/17
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On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 2:26:06 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
There are several excellent ones, other than Kna (don't forget about his 1964 performance with Vickers). Barenboim's is strongly cast (other than a weakish Gurnemanz), and in excellent sound. Armin Jordan's cast on Erato is even better (except for a rather ordinary Parsifal from Goldberg), but I find the conducting slack. I do like Karajan's, largely because the beauty of the orchestral playing and Moll's Gurnemanz. Best of all is probably Kubelik's, with James King, Moll, and Minton.
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
meyers...@gmail.com
Jul 31, 2017, 12:05:06 AM7/31/17
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Andy Evans
Jul 31, 2017, 3:59:03 AM7/31/17
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I've been listening to a few of the Knas on YT to start my search, and one thing I've discovered is that Act 1 is a perfect cure for insomnia. I'm always looking for music to fall asleep by and this is it, especially with Kna conducting. Of course, this is a very pleasant way to fall asleep, so no problems there. The only potential problem is coming up against singers that don't satisfy you or irritate you, since you're quite sensitive in the early hours.
My list of "yes but..." singers unfortunately starts with Martha Modl and since she's on most of the Knas that's serious. I totally love Regine Crespin - my favourite Kundry - and there are two of the Knas with her in the role, 1958 and 1960. Unfortunately the performances don't have quite the electricity of Kna's best years and some of the other singers aren't at their absolute best. Ah well....
I need to hear the Karajan in full - not on YT, and neither is the 1964 Vickers. I don't know about Solti - I like his Meistersinger and Gotterdammerung but ideally I'm after something more spiritual. I'm also less of a fan of Kubelik than many others - I never warmed to his Meistersinger for instance and his conducting stays largely earthbound for me.
For now I'm trying to sort out the many Knas. The 1951 and 1962 are pretty much as good as they are always made out to be, and the good stereo sound in 1962 is a big bonus.
Talking about people who have written about Parsifal, have you read Mark Twain?
"The first act of the three occupied two hours, and I enjoyed that in spite of the singing. [...] it seems to me that the chief virtue in song is melody, air, tune, rhythm, or what you please to call it, and that when this feature is absent what remains is a picture with the color left out. I was not able to detect in the vocal parts of "Parsifal" anything that might with confidence be called rhythm or tune or melody; one person performed at a time--and a long time, too--often in a noble, and always in a high-toned, voice; but he only pulled out long notes, then some short ones, then another long one, then a sharp, quick, peremptory bark or two--and so on and so on; and when he was done you saw that the information which he had conveyed had not compensated for the disturbance. [...] An ignorant person gets tired of listening to gymnastic intervals in the long run, no matter how pleasant they may be. In "Parsifal" there is a hermit named Gurnemanz who stands on the stage in one spot and practices by the hour, while first one and then another character of the cast endures what he can of it and then retires to die".
My list of "yes but..." singers unfortunately starts with Martha Modl and since she's on most of the Knas that's serious. I totally love Regine Crespin - my favourite Kundry - and there are two of the Knas with her in the role, 1958 and 1960. Unfortunately the performances don't have quite the electricity of Kna's best years and some of the other singers aren't at their absolute best. Ah well....
I need to hear the Karajan in full - not on YT, and neither is the 1964 Vickers. I don't know about Solti - I like his Meistersinger and Gotterdammerung but ideally I'm after something more spiritual. I'm also less of a fan of Kubelik than many others - I never warmed to his Meistersinger for instance and his conducting stays largely earthbound for me.
For now I'm trying to sort out the many Knas. The 1951 and 1962 are pretty much as good as they are always made out to be, and the good stereo sound in 1962 is a big bonus.
Talking about people who have written about Parsifal, have you read Mark Twain?
"The first act of the three occupied two hours, and I enjoyed that in spite of the singing. [...] it seems to me that the chief virtue in song is melody, air, tune, rhythm, or what you please to call it, and that when this feature is absent what remains is a picture with the color left out. I was not able to detect in the vocal parts of "Parsifal" anything that might with confidence be called rhythm or tune or melody; one person performed at a time--and a long time, too--often in a noble, and always in a high-toned, voice; but he only pulled out long notes, then some short ones, then another long one, then a sharp, quick, peremptory bark or two--and so on and so on; and when he was done you saw that the information which he had conveyed had not compensated for the disturbance. [...] An ignorant person gets tired of listening to gymnastic intervals in the long run, no matter how pleasant they may be. In "Parsifal" there is a hermit named Gurnemanz who stands on the stage in one spot and practices by the hour, while first one and then another character of the cast endures what he can of it and then retires to die".
Message has been deleted
Andy Evans
Jul 31, 2017, 7:24:13 AM7/31/17
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I must confess that I really don't like the music, and the plot is so stupid it embarrass even Whoopi Goldberg. If I had 4 spare hours to listen to music I would rather hear Tom Lehrer than Parsifal! ;-)
>
> dk
Simon Roberts' friend David put it "downstream of Hello Dolly"....
Contrary to what I expected I'm enjoying Solti - totally love Christa Ludwig. Makes up for missing Regine Crespin in the generally less good Knas. And the VPO and Decca recording are big draws.
>
> dk
Simon Roberts' friend David put it "downstream of Hello Dolly"....
Contrary to what I expected I'm enjoying Solti - totally love Christa Ludwig. Makes up for missing Regine Crespin in the generally less good Knas. And the VPO and Decca recording are big draws.
Message has been deleted
Terry
Aug 2, 2017, 7:49:46 AM8/2/17
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On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:00:52 PM UTC+10, dk wrote:
> Still the plot is insufferable.
>
> dk
I've heard worse.
>
> dk
I've heard worse.
Andy Evans
Aug 2, 2017, 1:00:15 PM8/2/17
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> Still the plot is insufferable.
>
> dk
O
Aug 2, 2017, 1:05:09 PM8/2/17
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In article <c1fc4510-f5ef-4833...@googlegroups.com>,
Personally, I'm fond of pre-opera plots that involve gypsies and babies
thrown into fires.
-Owen
thrown into fires.
-Owen
Andy Evans
Aug 2, 2017, 5:37:35 PM8/2/17
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> Personally, I'm fond of pre-opera plots that involve gypsies and babies
> thrown into fires.
>
> -Owen
Or dwarf throwing maybe.....
> thrown into fires.
>
> -Owen
But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
Andy Evans
Jan 24, 2018, 5:10:29 PM1/24/18
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I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I responded to Karajan.
Anybody else feel this way?
Anybody else feel this way?
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 24, 2018, 9:09:22 PM1/24/18
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On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 5:10:29 PM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I responded to Karajan.
>
> Anybody else feel this way?
For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just owned this score lock stock and barrel.
> I've been listening to Parsifal recently, and going against general preference for Karajan, I found his interpretation melodramatic and artificial. Not only that but the recording is rather distant. I went back to Solti and the recording is much clearer and more immediate, and the performance reveals more about Wagner's actual score without the distortions that Karajan introduces. I ended up quite shocked at how little I responded to Karajan.
>
> Anybody else feel this way?
Oscar
Jan 24, 2018, 9:12:52 PM1/24/18
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On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 6:09:22 PM, meyers wrote:
> >
> > Anybody else feel this way?
>
> For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the
> way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are
> both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official
> release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just
> owned this score lock stock and barrel.
Without even a smidgen of doubt, I concur. This work belongs to Kna and anyone who says otherwise has no soul.
> >
> > Anybody else feel this way?
>
> For me you have to hear this work from Bayreuth and the one recording that actually sounds the
> way this work sounds in that theatre is the 1962 Philips recording. The orchestra and chorus are
> both magnificent and the cast involved. As an addenda I would add the 1964 Bayreuth in its official
> release from Bavarian radio with a really wonderful cast and Kna in his last Parsifal at Bayreuth just
> owned this score lock stock and barrel.
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 24, 2018, 10:03:34 PM1/24/18
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Message has been deleted
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 24, 2018, 10:09:53 PM1/24/18
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On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 10:05:59 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> have been composed for a bladder-less audience!
>
> dk
Buy some Depends
> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:03:34 PM UTC-8, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Bar for bar Parsifal is the most singing beautiful
> > score Wagner wrote and Kna brings that home to us.
>
> Too bad it lasts four and a half hours! It must
> >
> > Bar for bar Parsifal is the most singing beautiful
> > score Wagner wrote and Kna brings that home to us.
>
> have been composed for a bladder-less audience!
>
> dk
Buy some Depends
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 24, 2018, 10:12:26 PM1/24/18
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 17:29:55 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 2:37:35 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>
>> But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you
>> imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged
>> marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are
>> perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
>
>If you think the Meistersinger plot is ridiculous,
>what can one say about Parsifal? Total brain damage?
>
>dk
From time to time I watch a Parsifal DVD or Bluray and I find it hard
to keep awake the whole time. I recall what Rossini said, "Monsieur
Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart d'heures". Except
for Puccini and the other verismo composers, most opera plots are
silly so Parsifal's doesn't bother me. The lack of conciseness does.
wrote:
>On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 2:37:35 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>>
>> But even Meistersinger has a ridiculous plot - can you
>> imagine a wealthy gold dealer fixing up an arranged
>> marriage with a singer-songwriter when there are
>> perfectly good lawyers and doctors available?
>
>what can one say about Parsifal? Total brain damage?
>
>dk
From time to time I watch a Parsifal DVD or Bluray and I find it hard
to keep awake the whole time. I recall what Rossini said, "Monsieur
Wagner a de beaux moments, mais de mauvais quart d'heures". Except
for Puccini and the other verismo composers, most opera plots are
silly so Parsifal's doesn't bother me. The lack of conciseness does.
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 24, 2018, 10:16:39 PM1/24/18
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Andy Evans
Jan 25, 2018, 4:33:18 AM1/25/18
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> To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Juan I. Cahis
Jan 25, 2018, 7:58:54 AM1/25/18
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--
Enviado desde mi iPad usando NewsTap, Juan I. Cahis, Santiago de Chile.
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 25, 2018, 8:00:16 AM1/25/18
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On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>
> I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
> > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>
> I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
markhax
Jan 25, 2018, 7:20:05 PM1/25/18
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>
> To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 25, 2018, 7:33:59 PM1/25/18
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On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 19:16:37 -0800 (PST), meyers...@gmail.com
wrote:
>To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
wrote:
>To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 25, 2018, 8:29:42 PM1/25/18
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meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 25, 2018, 8:30:28 PM1/25/18
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On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 7:20:05 PM UTC-5, markhax wrote:
> >
> > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>
> Zum Raum wird hier die Zeit!
GREAT line!!!!
> >
> > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>
> Zum Raum wird hier die Zeit!
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 26, 2018, 10:24:21 AM1/26/18
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:29:37 -0800 (PST), meyers...@gmail.com
out half an hour.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/arts/music/could-you-shorten-that-aria-opera-weighs-cuts-in-the-classics.html
The Met did a TV broadcast of a cut version of the Magic Flute a few
years ago.
wrote:
>On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 7:33:59 PM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 19:16:37 -0800 (PST), meyers...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>>
>> How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
>> hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
>> Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
>> they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
>
>There is a cut recording of Parsifal (the Callas) but rightly it is never cut. As for the others I don't think I have ever heard cut versions of any of those operas.
The San Francisco opera recently did a cut version of Carmen that cut
>On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 7:33:59 PM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2018 19:16:37 -0800 (PST), meyers...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>>
>> How about repetitious? When manage to concentrate, I think I am
>> hearing sections of slow music for the second, third or fourth time.
>> Of course, now a days, nobody would dare cut Parsifal, even though
>> they do it to the Magic Flute, Carmen and even Boheme.
>
>There is a cut recording of Parsifal (the Callas) but rightly it is never cut. As for the others I don't think I have ever heard cut versions of any of those operas.
out half an hour.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/07/arts/music/could-you-shorten-that-aria-opera-weighs-cuts-in-the-classics.html
The Met did a TV broadcast of a cut version of the Magic Flute a few
years ago.
gggg...@gmail.com
Jan 26, 2018, 4:02:08 PM1/26/18
to
- At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.
http://www.dw.com/en/why-parsifal-a-wagner-opera-on-the-power-of-religion-is-so-relevant-today/a-19424592
Message has been deleted
gggg...@gmail.com
Jan 26, 2018, 4:47:53 PM1/26/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 11:31:13 AM UTC-10, dk wrote:
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
- To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.
Friedrich Nietzsche
> On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 1:02:08 PM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > > >
> > > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> > >
> > > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
> >
> > According to the following recent article:
> >
> > - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
> > soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
> > finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
> > the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
> > peaceful utopia.
>
> After four and a half hours of purgatory
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > > >
> > > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> > >
> > > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
> >
> > According to the following recent article:
> >
> > - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
> > soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
> > finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
> > the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
> > peaceful utopia.
>
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
- To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Message has been deleted
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 26, 2018, 5:19:09 PM1/26/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 4:31:13 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 1:02:08 PM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > > >
> > > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> > >
> > > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
> >
> > According to the following recent article:
> >
> > - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
> > soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
> > finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
> > the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
> > peaceful utopia.
>
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > > >
> > > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> > >
> > > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
> >
> > According to the following recent article:
> >
> > - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
> > soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
> > finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
> > the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
> > peaceful utopia.
>
> After four and a half hours of purgatory
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
I think we get it - you don't like it
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
Message has been deleted
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2018, 12:26:36 AM1/27/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 6:30:32 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> Say, 15-20 minutes at a time. I can do
> without the plot and the singers. The
> major problem is that the music only
> holds together with the plot, and
> the plot only holds together with
> the music. In other words, the
> worst kind of codependency.
>
> dk
That's what opera should be nicht wahr???? a fusion of text, music and all the rest. However if you like there are orchestral syntheses of Parsifal available
> On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 2:19:09 PM UTC-8, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I think we get it - you don't like it
>
> Not exactly. I like it in small portions.
> >
> > I think we get it - you don't like it
>
> Say, 15-20 minutes at a time. I can do
> without the plot and the singers. The
> major problem is that the music only
> holds together with the plot, and
> the plot only holds together with
> the music. In other words, the
> worst kind of codependency.
>
> dk
That's what opera should be nicht wahr???? a fusion of text, music and all the rest. However if you like there are orchestral syntheses of Parsifal available
Message has been deleted
jeffc
Jan 27, 2018, 8:27:29 AM1/27/18
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d7BIYbLZSc
"Parsifal is a 1982 West German-French opera film directed by Hans-Jürgen Syberberg, based on the opera of the same name by Richard Wagner. It was shown out of competition at the 1982 Cannes Film Festival.[2]
The soundtrack is a complete performance of the opera; however the imagery used is a melange including medieval costume, puppetry, Nazi relics and a giant death mask of Richard Wagner. The Grail itself is represented by Wagner's Bayreuth Theatre and Parsifal's key transformation is portrayed with a change of actor to an androgynous but deliberately female suggesting form in order to achieve a union of male and female at the conclusion of Act II."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal_(1982_film)
"Parsifal is a 1982 West German-French opera film directed by Hans-Jürgen Syberberg, based on the opera of the same name by Richard Wagner. It was shown out of competition at the 1982 Cannes Film Festival.[2]
The soundtrack is a complete performance of the opera; however the imagery used is a melange including medieval costume, puppetry, Nazi relics and a giant death mask of Richard Wagner. The Grail itself is represented by Wagner's Bayreuth Theatre and Parsifal's key transformation is portrayed with a change of actor to an androgynous but deliberately female suggesting form in order to achieve a union of male and female at the conclusion of Act II."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsifal_(1982_film)
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 27, 2018, 10:14:52 AM1/27/18
to
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 05:27:25 -0800 (PST), jeffc <jeff...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually the flim, which I rented from Netflix, is not a bad
introduction to the opera. There are enough kookie visual shocks to
keep one awake through most of it. Despite those, at the core it is a
traditional performance taking place in a natural setting. I really
couldn't stand the Met production on a bare stage, except for a river
of blood, despite great singing from Kaufmann and Pape. Does anybody
know a performance on "period instruments" lead by Thomas Hengelbrock?
Some of the Amazon reviewers of the Met production praised
Hengelbrock's to the sky. But its reception on Youtube was not as
enthusiastic. But it clocks in 3 hours and 36 minutes with apparently
no cuts! I think a commercial release would be needed to really judge
because, well, Youtube sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTfT5poJWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwSPrCEgprI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS1MIo2Ayi4
wrote:
introduction to the opera. There are enough kookie visual shocks to
keep one awake through most of it. Despite those, at the core it is a
traditional performance taking place in a natural setting. I really
couldn't stand the Met production on a bare stage, except for a river
of blood, despite great singing from Kaufmann and Pape. Does anybody
know a performance on "period instruments" lead by Thomas Hengelbrock?
Some of the Amazon reviewers of the Met production praised
Hengelbrock's to the sky. But its reception on Youtube was not as
enthusiastic. But it clocks in 3 hours and 36 minutes with apparently
no cuts! I think a commercial release would be needed to really judge
because, well, Youtube sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTfT5poJWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwSPrCEgprI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS1MIo2Ayi4
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 27, 2018, 11:37:29 AM1/27/18
to
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:23:03 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I would really like to hear a piano version.
>
>dk
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas on Amazon performed by
Alexander Jacob. The Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
wrote:
>I would really like to hear a piano version.
>
>dk
There are piano versions of the Wagner operas on Amazon performed by
Alexander Jacob. The Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
heard any of them.
Randy Lane
Jan 27, 2018, 11:50:38 AM1/27/18
to
I've been wishing for years someone would reissue this recording from Bayreuth in 1971 under Jochum. Used copies are too expensive! Like one Amazon reviewer I am curious how the great spiritually sensitive interpreter of Bruckner handles Parsifal. Maybe Orefeo could get access to better tapes and give us a release worth buying.
https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Bayreuth-1971-Wagner/dp/B000068ZXP/
https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Bayreuth-1971-Wagner/dp/B000068ZXP/
Randy Lane
Jan 27, 2018, 11:58:59 AM1/27/18
to
Those who have said they really like the Solti might be happier campers in a few months when UMG releases it in remastered form with a BluRay version included.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078FHJJXP/
The Solti Tristan in that format arrives here in just a few weeks.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0788XRYJV/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078FHJJXP/
The Solti Tristan in that format arrives here in just a few weeks.
https://www.amazon.de/dp/B0788XRYJV/
Message has been deleted
Ricardo Jimenez
Jan 27, 2018, 2:45:34 PM1/27/18
to
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:17:05 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 8:37:29 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:23:03 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I would really like to hear a piano version.
>>
>Whose transcriptions?
>
>dk
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)
That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
wrote:
>On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 8:37:29 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:23:03 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I would really like to hear a piano version.
>>
>> There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
>> on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
>> Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
>> heard any of them.
>
>Thanks for the pointer.
>> on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
>> Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
>> heard any of them.
>
>Whose transcriptions?
>
>dk
Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
F.H. Schneider (?)
That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
Message has been deleted
Bob Harper
Jan 27, 2018, 4:10:27 PM1/27/18
to
On 1/26/18 1:31 PM, dk wrote:
Bob Harper
> On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 1:02:08 PM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>>> To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>>>>
>>>> I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
>>>
>>> Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
>>
>> According to the following recent article:
>>
>> - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
>> soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
>> finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
>> the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
>> peaceful utopia.
>
>> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
>>>>> To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
>>>>
>>>> I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
>>>
>>> Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
>>
>> According to the following recent article:
>>
>> - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins
>> soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything
>> finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath,
>> the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy,
>> peaceful utopia.
>
> After four and a half hours of purgatory
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
>
I don't know. Purgatory ends; Heaven is eternal.
> that is indeed very little consolation.
>
> dk
>
Bob Harper
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2018, 4:32:41 PM1/27/18
to
gggg...@gmail.com
Jan 27, 2018, 5:54:20 PM1/27/18
to
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 10:01:41 AM UTC-10, dk wrote:
> Heading now to the Stanford Music Library.
>
> dk
According to the liner notes of the following lp:
- Liszt's Wagner transcriptions amount to 12...the last, from 1882 an excerpt from Parsifal.
https://img.discogs.com/vHGRZtV1JmtTiqWX0Er4oKytrB0=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-3811623-1410172664-1479.jpeg.jpg
> On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 11:45:34 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:17:05 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 8:37:29 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:23:03 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I would really like to hear a piano version.
> > >>
> > >> There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
> > >> on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
> > >> Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
> > >> heard any of them.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the pointer.
> > > Whose transcriptions?
> >
> > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:17:05 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 8:37:29 AM UTC-8, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:23:03 -0800 (PST), dk <dan....@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I would really like to hear a piano version.
> > >>
> > >> There are piano versions of the Wagner operas
> > >> on Amazon performed by Alexander Jacob. The
> > >> Parsifal one is only 59 minutes long. I haven't
> > >> heard any of them.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the pointer.
> > > Whose transcriptions?
> >
> > Richard Kleinmichel (1846-1901)
> > Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
> > F.H. Schneider (?)
> >
> > That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
> > transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
> > available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
> > read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
> > complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
>
> Thanks! This is great info!
> > Karl Klindworth (1830-1916)
> > F.H. Schneider (?)
> >
> > That is according to the descriptions on Amazon. There are plenty of
> > transcriptions of selections from the operas by Liszt, Tausig etc
> > available but not many of really long portions. I think that I've
> > read that Wagner's last piano assistant, Joseph Rubinstein, made a
> > complete Parsifal version but nobody has recorded it.
>
> Heading now to the Stanford Music Library.
>
> dk
According to the liner notes of the following lp:
- Liszt's Wagner transcriptions amount to 12...the last, from 1882 an excerpt from Parsifal.
https://img.discogs.com/vHGRZtV1JmtTiqWX0Er4oKytrB0=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-3811623-1410172664-1479.jpeg.jpg
gggg...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2018, 2:05:57 AM1/28/18
to
WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
Message has been deleted
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2018, 7:58:22 AM1/28/18
to
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 2:18:25 AM UTC-5, dk wrote:
>
> dk
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
> On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 11:05:57 PM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > The following has gotten rave reviews by Youtube posters:
> >
> > WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
>
> Probably because it is just the Prologue and the Finale! ;-)
> >
> > The following has gotten rave reviews by Youtube posters:
> >
> > WAGNER - Parsifal - Vorspiel Und Finale (Stefan Mickisch)
>
>
> dk
My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Andy Evans
Jan 28, 2018, 9:16:53 AM1/28/18
to
> My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2018, 9:28:52 AM1/28/18
to
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 9:16:53 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
>
> Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Yes but seeing the same one ad infinitum just gets, pardon me, boring
> > My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
>
> Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
Tassilo
Jan 28, 2018, 2:37:20 PM1/28/18
to
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 2:26:06 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
I only know the ACT II from this performance, but check out Callas/Gui/La Scala/live early 50's for the most stunning possible conducting and Callas a sensational Kundry. In Italian, of course. Available in quite good sound as part of a Callas compilation on Gala.
-dg
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
I only know the ACT II from this performance, but check out Callas/Gui/La Scala/live early 50's for the most stunning possible conducting and Callas a sensational Kundry. In Italian, of course. Available in quite good sound as part of a Callas compilation on Gala.
-dg
meyers...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2018, 3:43:26 PM1/28/18
to
Andy Evans
Jan 28, 2018, 6:07:18 PM1/28/18
to
> The Solti has magnificent sound (which should sound even better on the upcoming bluray) strong non-interventionist conducting and a great cast. The Karajan cast is not as good and his conducting is like examining a beautiful object held at arms distance. More recent ones I have heard but none really made an impression on me that makes me want to hear them again>
That's a very good description. I agree entirely.
Bob Harper
Jan 28, 2018, 8:23:10 PM1/28/18
to
On 1/28/18 6:16 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
>
> Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
>
Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
>> My my you certainly do like to drive home the same point, over and over and over.... Its rapidly getting put on the shelf reserved for postings to which we are now immune
>
> Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
>
Bob Harper
Message has been deleted
gggg...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2018, 4:51:44 AM1/31/18
to
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 11:02:08 AM UTC-10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > >
> > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> >
> > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
>
> According to the following recent article:
>
> - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.
>
> http://www.dw.com/en/why-parsifal-a-wagner-opera-on-the-power-of-religion-is-so-relevant-today/a-19424592
> On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 3:00:16 AM UTC-10, meyers...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 4:33:18 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > > To the true Parsifal-ite the work is not long at all - time is relative.
> > >
> > > I put Act 3 on to send me to sleep. I get a marvellous quarter of an hour and the rest sleeps with the fishes.
> >
> > Maybe you had a problem with the Karajan Parsifal interpretation because you can't get through the third act of the work anyway????? anyway it is a shame since the final few moments of Parsifal are incredibly moving and beautiful ---to some of us
>
> According to the following recent article:
>
> - At the final uncovering of the Holy Grail, the violins soar upwards, the harmonies become clearer, and everything finally dissipates into nothingness. It's like a final breath, the utopia of a dying man, as it were - a very beautiful, holy, peaceful utopia.
>
The recent book THE HOLY GRAIL ON FILM...has a chapter on Parsifal:
https://mcfarlandbooks.com/product/the-holy-grail-on-film/
Message has been deleted
Dvorak
Feb 1, 2018, 6:21:52 PM2/1/18
to
On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 12:53:27 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
> hours.
>
> dk
Knappertsbusch's 1951 Decca Parsifal recording was my unforgettable introduction.I have heard and purchased almost all recordings of this towering masterpiece, but first loves always make a difference. Love at first listen and it is still available. Check below for details.
https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000SH0
> On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 5:23:10 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
> > >
> > Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
>
> Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
> >
> > >
> > > Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
> > >
> > Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
>
> Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
> hours.
>
> dk
Knappertsbusch's 1951 Decca Parsifal recording was my unforgettable introduction.I have heard and purchased almost all recordings of this towering masterpiece, but first loves always make a difference. Love at first listen and it is still available. Check below for details.
https://www.amazon.com/Parsifal-Richard-Classical-Wagner/dp/B000000SH0
meyers...@gmail.com
Feb 1, 2018, 7:21:45 PM2/1/18
to
Bob Harper
Feb 1, 2018, 9:15:19 PM2/1/18
to
On 1/31/18 9:53 AM, dk wrote:
> On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 5:23:10 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
>>
>>>
> On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 5:23:10 PM UTC-8, Bob Harper wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Opinions may go up and down with the coffee and sushi consumption....
>>>
>> Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
>
>>>
>> Sushi and coffee? Ewwwwwww.
>
> Not at the same time. Sushi on the hour.
> Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
> hours.
>
> dk
>
A bit more rational, I suppose. Especially the sushi and Scotch (what
> Coffee on the half our. Scotch every 2
> hours.
>
> dk
>
kind, pray tell)--which I assume complement one another.
Bob Harper
Message has been deleted
Andy Evans
Feb 2, 2018, 1:32:54 PM2/2/18
to
> Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
>
> dk
Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
>
> dk
Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
Message has been deleted
MickeyBoy
Feb 3, 2018, 8:29:44 PM2/3/18
to
On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 10:23:53 PM UTC-6, dk wrote:
> the Chopin and the Tchaikovsky.
>
> FWIW I also usually have Bowmore,
> Lagavulin, Talisker and Highland
> Park in my library. The patented
> environment friendly jazzoline I
> feed my Audis is made from one
> part Brubeck, one part Evans,
> one part Tatum, and two parts
> Talisker. And it is renewable!
>
> dk
I'll second all these choices, preferring Talisker to Richard Goode. :-) I have had a few bottles of Talisker 12 and 18 in my time, but recently saw bottles of Talisker 24 for USD 2,200. !@#$%^&*()
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 10:32:54 AM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
> >
> > > Whatever I can afford. Springbank if possible.
> >
> > Ardbeg is the Bartok of Scotches....
>
> You drink the Bartok and I drink
>
> the Chopin and the Tchaikovsky.
>
> FWIW I also usually have Bowmore,
> Lagavulin, Talisker and Highland
> Park in my library. The patented
> environment friendly jazzoline I
> feed my Audis is made from one
> part Brubeck, one part Evans,
> one part Tatum, and two parts
> Talisker. And it is renewable!
>
> dk
I'll second all these choices, preferring Talisker to Richard Goode. :-) I have had a few bottles of Talisker 12 and 18 in my time, but recently saw bottles of Talisker 24 for USD 2,200. !@#$%^&*()
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 6, 2018, 3:20:03 PM2/6/18
to
On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 8:26:06 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Concerning Kubelik's 1980 recording:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
- It is one of the best recordings of Parsifal issued to date.
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
Message has been deleted
Andy Evans
Mar 29, 2018, 5:49:36 AM3/29/18
to
Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
I'm sure others disagree with this.
meyers...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 9:28:10 AM3/29/18
to
On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:49:36 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
Why should anyone one disagree - surely a personal preference and if the faster renditions make sense to you that's what counts
> Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 12:56:42 PM3/29/18
to
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 11:49:36 PM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
Concerning Boulez' 1970 Parsifal performance at Bayreuth:
> Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
- The work is ruined by a misguided conductor who takes many passages much too fast...
http://www.monsalvat.no/discogra.htm
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 1:07:53 PM3/29/18
to
- ...We must accept that the difference between Wagner’s ideas on tempi and the slower performances that are customary today is even greater.
http://www.haenchen.net/veroeffentlichungen/texte/?user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Btype%5D=1&user_haenchendatabase_pi14%5Buid%5D=115&cHash=35963094a35411a5a6f1782df709b875
Message has been deleted
gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 1:12:44 PM3/29/18
to
- Every tradition grows ever more venerable the more remote its origin, the more confused that origin is. The reverence due to it increases from generation to generation. The tradition finally becomes holy and inspires awe.
Nietzsche
wkasimer
Mar 29, 2018, 2:06:02 PM3/29/18
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On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 1:12:44 PM UTC-4, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Could this explain tempi slowing down over time?:
There's only one problem with this hypothesis - there's absolutely no evidence that performances of Parsifal are slowing down.
> Could this explain tempi slowing down over time?:
www.wagneropera.net/wagner-timings.htm
If you look at the 10 slowest performances eight of them date from before 1960.
chax...@williams.edu
Mar 29, 2018, 2:36:48 PM3/29/18
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On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 5:49:36 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> Just an update - I'm going faster in Parsifal. Solti, Thielemann, Krauss and Boulez. I'm increasingly finding it hard to listen to Kna, Karajan and the 'spiritual' guys. The longitudinal melodies make more sense to me at a faster tempo, and in a work as long as this there's a case for more drama than reverence to keep things alive.
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
Have you tried Karl Muck?
> I'm sure others disagree with this.
Herman
Mar 29, 2018, 2:40:31 PM3/29/18
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gggg...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 3:59:11 PM3/29/18
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- In a program essay, he made a persuasive case that tempos in “Parsifal” had generally become slower since its premiere in 1882, citing such diverse factors as failure to heed evidence from Wagner’s day and a tendency during the Nazi era to overly sentimentalize the work....Toscanini’s was the slowest, at 4 hours and 42 minutes, with James Levine close behind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/09/arts/09iht-LOOMIS09.html
meyers...@gmail.com
Mar 29, 2018, 11:22:09 PM3/29/18
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gggg...@gmail.com
Oct 9, 2018, 1:39:13 PM10/9/18
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On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 8:26:06 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
(Recent Youtube upload):
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
Parsifal- Munich Nationaltheater. 5-VII-2018 HD
Tassilo
Oct 10, 2018, 12:10:01 AM10/10/18
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On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 1:00:15 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> What Wagner opera doesn't have a ridiculous plot?
TRISTAN
> What Wagner opera doesn't have a ridiculous plot?
TRISTAN
jduns...@gmail.com
Oct 10, 2018, 3:53:18 AM10/10/18
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Boulez is my favourite.
He knocks 20 mins or so off it.
Jonathan Dunsby
He knocks 20 mins or so off it.
Jonathan Dunsby
O
Oct 11, 2018, 2:28:59 PM10/11/18
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gggg...@gmail.com
Aug 21, 2019, 3:52:02 PM8/21/19
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On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 8:26:06 AM UTC-10, Andy Evans wrote:
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=26431.0
> What's your favourite Parsifal? I'm currently ploughing through the Knas and liking 1951 and 1962 as most do.
>
> There are enough Knas to sink a ship, and they must be pretty near the top, but what of Karajan and the others?
gggg...@gmail.com
Aug 21, 2019, 3:54:49 PM8/21/19
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gggg...@gmail.com
Aug 21, 2019, 3:57:53 PM8/21/19
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On Wednesday, August 21, 2019 at 9:52:02 AM UTC-10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
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