Naxos Historical recommendations please
Carlos
with such a large catalog on that label I'm seeking the group's most
urgent recommendations on NH recordings, not just regarding sound of
course but principally with regard to the underlying transcendent
performances.
-
I'm already the happy listener to NH's versions of the Casals Bach
Suites, the Casals/Cortot/Thibaud trio, and the Schnabel Beethoven
concerti. On Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas I'm happy enough with Pearl
for now.
-
A couple of particular questions, in addition to the above more
general one:
-
Is NH's transfer of the Busch/Glyndebourne Cosi fan Tutte much better
than the old Pearl? I'm very happy with their (or Ward Marston's)
work on the Don Giovanni and the Figaro.
-
Similar question with NH's transfer of the Fischer WTC: is it an
escape from the dimness of the old EMI References version?
-
How are Schnabel's recordings of the Brahms concerti?
-
Thanks -- looking forward to people's opinions.
-
Carlos
alla...@gmail.com
> I'm eager to take advantage of MDT's sale on Naxos Historical, and
> with such a large catalog on that label I'm seeking the group's most
> urgent recommendations on NH recordings, not just regarding sound of
> course but principally with regard to the underlying transcendent
> performances.
There are so many great ones, it's hard to know where to begin. If
you're interested in historic piano recordings, Naxos is definitive at
this point for Josef Lhevinne (1 CD), Ignaz Friedman (5 CDs), and
Mischa Levitzki (3 CDs). The first two, in particular, belong among
the cornerstones of a serious piano collection. And there are a lot of
great things in the ongoing series of discs by Cortot, Moiseiwitsch,
and others, as well as exciting new series of early recordings by
Gilels, Michelangeli, Gould, and, coming soon, Richter. Some of it, of
course, depends on what you already have and whether you're interested
in "upgrades" or trying a different (and quite possibly superior)
transfer.
And if you're a Delius fan, you won't miss the ongoing series of
historic Beecham recordings (7 CDs). I'll leave recs for other
conductors, violinists, cellists, singers, and opera to others. Huge
amount of great stuff. And many historic jazz reissues, too. Frankly,
it's amazing what Naxos is doing.
[snip]
> Similar question with NH's transfer of the Fischer WTC: is it an
> escape from the dimness of the old EMI References version?
I haven't heard the Naxos transfers myself, but they were pretty much
universally panned. I think they're considered among the few duds in
the Naxos Historical series. Note that EMI itself has reissued the
Fischer WTC twice since that boxy References version.
> How are Schnabel's recordings of the Brahms concerti?
Personally, I think these are just about his least essential
recordings.
Allan
jPjones
Naxos sounds shitty and EMI sounds shitty... I suspect the originals
have terrible sound. This is not a question of noise but of the piano
sound itself. For some reason, I find Fischer's WTC harder to listen
to than many much earlier acoustic recordings (which have more noise
but good piano sound).
About the Schnabel Brahms concerti, I don't think they're even front-
runners. Several other pianists like Rubinstein, Arrau, Richter,
Malcuzynski, etc., have made superior recordings. For Schnabel
concerti, I think the Mozarts are the jewels. Extraordinary.
Best,
jPj
wagnerfan
news:3861ca44-168b-47a7...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
The best version of the Fischer WTC I have ever heard from Pristine Audio.
Wagner fan
td
If you are happy with any transfers of old recordings, you will
probably be happy with any transfers of old recordings that you find.
If you can tolerate the surface noise on the Pearl Schnabel sonatas,
you can tolerate anything, including, perhaps, having your fingernails
removed with a pair of pliers.
If you don't like the dimness of Fischer's WTC, go complain to the
original recording producer, but you won't change anything.
Indeed, little can be changed with these old discs. If someone has
"changed" them, the chances are he or she has submitted them to a
variety of electronic distortions. You don't get nothing for nothing.
There are always trade-offs, so don't let anyone fool you on this
subject.
Good luck.
TD
Rugby
I think the Schnabel/Szell Brahms 1st Concerto is wonderful and
essential. The Brahms 2nd with Boult is not good, dont buy.
I also have Rubinstein, and Malcuzynski in my collection, and heard
Barenboim and Curzon recordings, all in the Brahms 1st , for
reference.
Then there is Rachmaninoff in his own concerti.
Regards, Rugby
wkasimer
> I'm already the happy listener to NH's versions of the Casals Bach
> Suites, the Casals/Cortot/Thibaud trio,
Consider buying the five volumes of Casals playing short works,
particularly the two albums of electricals (the acoustics are great
too, but the electricals are essential).
> On Schnabel's Beethoven sonatas I'm happy enough with Pearl
> for now.
Personally, I think that the Pearl transfers are superior, but not
everyone agrees with me.
> Is NH's transfer of the Busch/Glyndebourne Cosi fan Tutte much better
> than the old Pearl?
Yes.
> Similar question with NH's transfer of the Fischer WTC: is it an
> escape from the dimness of the old EMI References version?
No. As I recall, this was transferred by someone other than Marston
or Mark Obert-Thorn, and the sound is offal. I thought that the EMI
was better, but Pearl's (by Winner, if I remember) the best by a
considerable margin).
The Piatigorsky and Feuermann discs are essential if you like
cellists. I would also snap up whatever Milstein, Szigeti, and
Kreisler is available.
As for the singer collections, they are virtually all recommendable,
if you like the singer in question. The Bjoerling and McCormack
material is very well transferred.
I'm slightly less enthusiastic about most of Naxos' issues of operatic
recordings from the 50's, from LP sources. In a few cases, they are
clearly superior to botched efforts by the original companies, but in
other cases, there is little or no improvement. But they're generally
good, and if you don't own the performances already, buy with
confidence. For me, highlights among the operatic sets are the
Rogatchewsky Manon, the Thill Werther, the 1951 Knappertsbusch
Parsifal, and the Kleiber Rosenkavalier (although I think that the
latter sounds slightly better in its latest Decca incarnation).
Bill
wagnerfan
"wkasimer" <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:85695938-1772-4844...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Yes.
Bill
Bill, re the Kleiber Rosenkavalier, is that the new Heritage Masters
edition???? Wagner Fan
wkasimer
> Bill, re the Kleiber Rosenkavalier, is that the new Heritage Masters
> edition????
No, the previous one, about 3-4 years old. I assume that the new one
is just a straight reissue of that.
Bill
alla...@gmail.com
> Naxos sounds shitty and EMI sounds shitty... I suspect the originals
> have terrible sound. This is not a question of noise but of the piano
> sound itself. For some reason, I find Fischer's WTC harder to listen
> to than many much earlier acoustic recordings (which have more noise
> but good piano sound).
I'd like to see Naxos take a second crack at Fischer's WTC, in a
series of his complete Bach recordings. These are, after all, among
the most historically significant piano recordings ever made, as
worthy of quality preservation as anything else--and as someone else
pointed out, the WTC transfers were not made by either Marston or MO-
T. With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
pieces Fischer recorded. His Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue and Toccata in
D, for instance, are fabulous. And there's more: e.g., Fantasy & Fugue
in a, Fantasy in c, Busoni "St. Anne", Busoni "Ich ruf zu dir", Adagio
from Marcello Concerto, as well as concertos w. orchestra.
> About the Schnabel Brahms concerti, I don't think they're even front-
> runners. Several other pianists like Rubinstein, Arrau, Richter,
> Malcuzynski, etc., have made superior recordings. For Schnabel
> concerti, I think the Mozarts are the jewels. Extraordinary.
I agree about Schnabel's Mozart in general. I'm particularly a fan of
his K. 466 and K. 595, not to mention solo pieces such as K. 332, K.
511, and K. 570, as well as the Quartet in g. But, as you know, I
object to his own cadenzas in some of the other concertos.
Allan
A N Other
..................
With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
> quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
> pieces Fischer recorded. ........................
> Allan
I'm sorry to hear of Pearl's demise. There are still 342 items still
available from MDT.
Dontait...@aol.com
> On Mar 13, 2:44�am, jPjones <justplaynejo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Naxos sounds shitty and EMI sounds shitty... I suspect the originals
> > have terrible sound. This is not a question of noise but of the piano
> > sound itself. For some reason, I find Fischer's WTC harder to listen
> > to than many much earlier acoustic recordings (which have more noise
> > but good piano sound).
I own some of the 78s of Fischer's Well-Tempered Clavier. I can
testify that they sound very good. Clean, clear, open, with color --
typical HMV piano sound from the 1930s. By no means terrible (I
haven't heard the Naxos and EMI CD transfers). Based upon my beautiful-
sounding 78s, the bad sound on the CD transfers must be the fault of
the people who made the transfers and tried to "improve" the sound by
filtering and "processing" the sound. Anyway, see Allan's comments
below -- the really good transfer engineers, Ward Marston and Mark O-
T, evidently haven't transferred this set. I suspect that if one of
them did, everyone would find its sound to be a revelation. Fischer's
performances likewise.
I've spent many decades collecting 78s, comparing duplicates, and so
on (there are about 20,000 here). I can testify that playing them for
optimum results or obtaining the best-possible-sounding copies is by
no means a simple matter, and that it is crucial that both should be
done if one intends to make a transfer. The amount of surface noise on
78s is a matter of the individual copy at hand. It varied widely, as
did the character and quality of sound from pressings made at
different times by even the same company. Even Naxos has issued some
78 transfers that are appalling messes compared to the originals I
have here (*not* by Ward or Mark) and have made me understand why some
people think that all 78s do and must sound lousy. They don't.
> I'd like to see Naxos take a second crack at Fischer's WTC, in a
> series of his complete Bach recordings. These are, after all, among
> the most historically significant piano recordings ever made, as
> worthy of quality preservation as anything else--and as someone else
> pointed out, the WTC transfers were not made by either Marston or MO-
> T. With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
> quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
> pieces Fischer recorded. His Chromatic Fantasy & Fugue and Toccata in
> D, for instance, are fabulous. And there's more: e.g., Fantasy & Fugue
> in a, Fantasy in c, Busoni "St. Anne", Busoni "Ich ruf zu dir", Adagio
> from Marcello Concerto, as well as concertos w. orchestra.
Me, too.
Don Tait
wagnerfan
news:85695938-1772-4844...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Yes.
Bill
The Naxos transfers of the 1950 Krauss Fledermaus and all of the early 1950
D'Oyly Carte operas are frankly awful - cramped and shallow sounding. The
Fledermaus is beautifully transferred on Prisrtine Audio and the Gilbert and
Sullivan are given really amazing tranfers by Sounds on CD. Wagner fan
Tassilo
> The Naxos transfers of the 1950 Krauss Fledermaus and all of the early 1950
> D'Oyly Carte operas are frankly awful - cramped and shallow sounding. The
> Fledermaus is beautifully transferred on Prisrtine Audio and the Gilbert and
> Sullivan are given really amazing tranfers by Sounds on CD. Wagner fan
If I have the very first Decca/London CD reissue of the Fledermaus
with Krauss, how badly do I need the Pristine Audio? (As good as this
performance is, and as great a conductor as Krauss was, not least in
this repertory, I'm afraid I still don't find this particular
performance the last word on the subject.) Ditto for the
Knappertsbusch recording of Meistersinger, which I love to death: I
thought the Decca/London reissue was extremely well done. In fact, I
thought everything I ever heard in Decca's first "historical reissues"
series was well done, e.g., the Lisa della Casa Strauss recital.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:acfdb5c4-1260-4d9a-bff2-70cc7c44c5b0
@e38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> On 13 Mar, 18:17, allan8...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
>> quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
>> pieces Fischer recorded. ........................
>
> I'm sorry to hear of Pearl's demise. There are still 342 items still
> available from MDT.
I'm very sorry to hear of it too, although I should have guessed since they
haven't issued much lately. (The last release I recall is of the "Lisbon
'Traviata'" from the Portuguese Radio tapes.) Pearl in its earliest days
was quite variable, but they built themselves up into a quite respectable
historical outlet, er, I mean LABEL, over the years.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
A N Other
> A N Other <another12...@hotmail.co.uk> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:acfdb5c4-1260-4d9a-bff2-70cc7c44c5b0
> @e38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On 13 Mar, 18:17, allan8...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
> >> quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
> >> pieces Fischer recorded. ........................
>
> > I'm sorry to hear of Pearl's demise. There are still 342 items still
> > available from MDT.
>
> I'm very sorry to hear of it too, although I should have guessed since they
> haven't issued much lately. (The last release I recall is of the "Lisbon
> 'Traviata'" from the Portuguese Radio tapes.) Pearl in its earliest days
> was quite variable, but they built themselves up into a quite respectable
> historical outlet, er, I mean LABEL, over the years.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My main music page ---http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
A little browse uncovered this forthcoming Pearl:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Pearl/GEMS0079
Perhaps they are still afloat?
wkasimer
> A little browse uncovered this forthcoming Pearl:
>
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Pearl/GEMS0079
>
> Perhaps they are still afloat?
That recording, the RVW-conducted St. Matthew, has been in print for
years. I'm not sure why they're showing it as a new release.
Bill
A N Other
Yes, that is odd. Either an error, or Pearl is re-releasing.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:3c681045-768f-45e0-af16-bc6555f86951
@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
> On 13 Mar, 20:14, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> A N Other <another12...@hotmail.co.uk> appears to have caused the
following
>> letters to be typed in news:acfdb5c4-1260-4d9a-bff2-70cc7c44c5b0
>> @e38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > On 13 Mar, 18:17, allan8...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > With the demise of Pearl, a void has opened up, both in terms of a
>> >> quality transfer of the WTC and the availability of other solo Bach
>> >> pieces Fischer recorded. ........................
>>
>> > I'm sorry to hear of Pearl's demise. There are still 342 items still
>> > available from MDT.
>>
>> I'm very sorry to hear of it too, although I should have guessed since
>> they haven't issued much lately. (The last release I recall is of the
>> "Lisbon 'Traviata'" from the Portuguese Radio tapes.) Pearl in its
>> earliest days was quite variable, but they built themselves up into a
>> quite respectable historical outlet, er, I mean LABEL, over the years.
>
> A little browse uncovered this forthcoming Pearl:
>
> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Pearl/GEMS0079
>
> Perhaps they are still afloat?
They issued this a few years ago (and I bought it then).
One of the earliest reviews I ever read in American Record Guide, back in
the early '70s, was of an LP release of this on a label called "Beaver."
Something tells me that that was a Canadian operation, not unlike Rococo.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
Thomas Liebert
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>Similar question with NH's transfer of the Fischer WTC: is it an
>>escape from the dimness of the old EMI References version?
>
>
> I haven't heard the Naxos transfers myself, but they were pretty much
> universally panned. I think they're considered among the few duds in
> the Naxos Historical series. Note that EMI itself has reissued the
> Fischer WTC twice since that boxy References version.
>
>
I have not heard any of the transfers of the Fischer WTC, but there is
also a transfer on Pristine Classical which may be superior to the
others. Can anyone here comment?
--Thomas
wagnerfan
"Thomas Liebert" <tal...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YKKdnZThRMHsYCfU...@giganews.com...
Yes definitely superior. Wagner fan
Edward A. Cowan
1970's. RCA Victor picked up from that label a recording of "Messiah"
cond. MacMillan, that featured what must have been the earliest
recording by Jon Vickers, singing the tenor solos. (See WERM 2, p. 93,
for Beaver LPS 001, and WERM 3, p.203, for RCA Bluebird LBC 6100.) My
copy of the recording is on RCA Victor LM-6134, three LP's. FWIW, my
copy has a pencil-written annotation stating: "Recorded at Massey Hall,
Toronto, Ont., Jan. 5, 1952. --E.A.C.
Matthew B. Tepper <oy˛@earthlink.net> wrote:
> One of the earliest reviews I ever read in American Record Guide, back in
> the early '70s, was of an LP release of this on a label called "Beaver."
> Something tells me that that was a Canadian operation, not unlike Rococo.
--
hrabanus
gperkins151
I compared the Pearl, the EMI and the Pristine. The Pristine sounds
the most manipulated to me, the EMI the most muffled (as usual) and
the Pearl sounds damn good. Not too noisy and much more natural
sounding than the other two. I usually can't handle Pearl's transfers
as the noise gives me headaches, but with the Fischer it's not too
bad.
George
Carlos
in historic piano recordings, Naxos is definitive at> this point for
Josef Lhevinne (1 CD), Ignaz Friedman (5 CDs), and> Mischa Levitzki (3
content? (I'm sure it's broader than the Pearl which only had 4
discs, but how so?)Carlos
td
> "Thomas Liebert" <talx...@comcast.net> wrote in message
LOL
One has to wonder when this "Wagner fan" will learn to put meat on his
bones.
TD
td
> The "Beaver" label (indeed, it was Canadian) was around long before the
> 1970's. RCA Victor picked up from that label a recording of "Messiah"
> cond. MacMillan, that featured what must have been the earliest
> recording by Jon Vickers, singing the tenor solos. (See WERM 2, p. 93,
> for Beaver LPS 001, and WERM 3, p.203, for RCA Bluebird LBC 6100.) My
> copy of the recording is on RCA Victor LM-6134, three LP's. FWIW, my
> copy has a pencil-written annotation stating: "Recorded at Massey Hall,
> Toronto, Ont., Jan. 5, 1952. --E.A.C.
Beaver Records also produced some very early Glenn Gould LPs.
The RCA Victor release was a license to RCA.
I own the original set, which continues to play beautifully some 67
years later.
TD
td
If you own these recordings in any form whatsoever, you don't need to
bother.
HOWEVER, a few of the Mendelssohn items often come out at the wrong
pitch. Allan Evans helped Philips overcome this problem when we
reissued them. Mr. Evans knows his IF.
TD
Andy Evans
Naxos Historical
Product Code: 8110658
Product Code: 8111119
BACH Piano Transcriptions
Product Code: 8110195
BEETHOVEN Great Chamber Music Recordings, Archduke Trio,
Product Code: 8111326
HOFMAN, JOSEF
Product Code: 8110606
LISZT Sonata in B minor
Product Code: 8111117
MOISEIWITSCH 11, Chopin Recordings 1916-1927
Product Code: 8111118
MOISEIWITSCH 12 Chopin Recordings Vol. 2
Product Code: 8111070
MOZART The Four Horn Concertos, Brain
Product Code: 8112011
PADEREWSKI, IGNACY
Product Code: 8110670
PROKOFIEV Piano Concerto No. 3 Composer
Product Code: 8112020
RACHMANINOV, SERGEY Historical Recordings 1925-1942
Product Code: 8111145
STRAUSS, RICHARD Four Last Songs, Schwarzkopf
Product Code: 8111128-31
WAGNER Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg, Knappertsbusch.
Product Code: 8110228-30
WAGNER Gotterdammerung Melchior
Note also some good Universal duos:
Falla Dutoit
Kodaly Dorati
Bartok Solti
Ravel Dutoit
Debussy Dutoit
Beethoven late sonatas Arrau
Schubert late sonatas Arrau
Strauss Boskovsky
andy evans