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"Emperor" recordings compared on BBCR3 Record Review
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Bozo
Feb 9, 2019, 10:08:15 AM2/9/19
to
9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
Recommended Recording:
Hannes Minnaar (piano)
Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
Channel CC72672
https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
Other Recommended Recordings:
Classic
Claudio Arrau (piano)
Philharmonia Orchestra
Alceo Galliera (conductor)
EMI CDZ 7 67384
Later generation
Krystian Zimmerman
Wiener Philharmoniker
Leonard Bernstein
DG 435 470-2
Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
Recommended Recording:
Hannes Minnaar (piano)
Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
Channel CC72672
https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
Other Recommended Recordings:
Classic
Claudio Arrau (piano)
Philharmonia Orchestra
Alceo Galliera (conductor)
EMI CDZ 7 67384
Later generation
Krystian Zimmerman
Wiener Philharmoniker
Leonard Bernstein
DG 435 470-2
Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 9, 2019, 11:04:16 AM2/9/19
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Gerard
Feb 9, 2019, 11:31:21 AM2/9/19
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Op zaterdag 9 februari 2019 16:08:15 UTC+1 schreef Bozo:
No mention of Fleisher/Szell, Cliburn/Reiner, Barenboim/Klemperer?
HT
Feb 9, 2019, 12:54:18 PM2/9/19
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My favorite is Horowitz/Reiner.
Henk
Henk
Bozo
Feb 9, 2019, 1:27:29 PM2/9/19
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The Barenboim/Klemperer was discussed,excerpt played ; the Horowitz/Reiner mentioned, not played.Fleisher/Szell, Cliburn/Reiner not mentioned. BBC reviewer thought Klemperer too slow, Horowitz not "imperious" enough. A fav of mine, Rubinstein/Krips , '50's, not mentioned.
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JohnGavin
Feb 9, 2019, 2:09:45 PM2/9/19
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- show quoted text -
Why bother? Especially with the latter?
Michelangeli/Celibidache rule!
dk
Seconded!
But Zimerman deserves respect for his meticulous playing - he reminds me in some ways of ABM, with his perfectly regulated and voiced instruments, as well as painstaking preparation - although he often lacks Michelangeli' originality, color and charisma.
Why bother? Especially with the latter?
Michelangeli/Celibidache rule!
dk
Seconded!
But Zimerman deserves respect for his meticulous playing - he reminds me in some ways of ABM, with his perfectly regulated and voiced instruments, as well as painstaking preparation - although he often lacks Michelangeli' originality, color and charisma.
JohnGavin
Feb 9, 2019, 2:15:52 PM2/9/19
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One more thought - the reviewer might not choose a pirated recording for ethical or legal/contractual reasons. The Michelangeli Celibidache is a non- commercial release. The only one of the many Michelangeli Emperors which is commercially recorded is the DG with Giulini and the Vienna Phil (which isn't as good as the Celi collaboration.)
By the way, the BBC article pictures the ABM DG recording while not mentioning it.
By the way, the BBC article pictures the ABM DG recording while not mentioning it.
Bozo
Feb 9, 2019, 2:16:23 PM2/9/19
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>On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 12:50:57 PM UTC-6, dk wrote:
>>...the survey demonstrates
> deep prejudice and illiteracy!
The reviewer starts with the 1979 live recording by ABM with Giulini.
>>...the survey demonstrates
> deep prejudice and illiteracy!
The reviewer starts with the 1979 live recording by ABM with Giulini.
Herman
Feb 9, 2019, 3:00:52 PM2/9/19
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There are just too many good recordings of nr 5 - which, incidentally,is not a hard, enigmatic piece, so, depending on one's mood there are plenty of perfectly good recordings.
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Bozo
Feb 9, 2019, 4:41:40 PM2/9/19
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>On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 2:04:39 PM UTC-6, dk wrote:
> ...the reviewer must be deemed
> prejudiced, illiterate, or idiot!
>
I suspect none of the above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Kenyon
> ...the reviewer must be deemed
> prejudiced, illiterate, or idiot!
>
I suspect none of the above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Kenyon
Tassilo
Feb 9, 2019, 5:18:41 PM2/9/19
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Casadesus/Rosbaud
HT
Feb 9, 2019, 5:54:12 PM2/9/19
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Op zaterdag 9 februari 2019 23:18:41 UTC+1 schreef Tassilo:
> Casadesus/Rosbaud
Excellent performance!
Henk
> Casadesus/Rosbaud
Excellent performance!
Henk
HT
Feb 9, 2019, 6:01:31 PM2/9/19
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> Needless to say that if a reviewer or a
> publication have a policy of ignoring
> "pirate" or commercially available
> "non-commercial" recordings, such
> policy must be disclosed and clearly
> stated up front, rather than being
> left as an exercise for the reader
> to read between the lines!
<g> Of course! And that should also apply to recordings that are available to a large audience on the internet (for example YouTube and other providers).
henk
kluurs
Feb 9, 2019, 6:15:26 PM2/9/19
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Another vote for Rubinstein/Krips love the Rondo.
Frank Berger
Feb 9, 2019, 8:08:38 PM2/9/19
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On 2/9/2019 1:52 PM, dk wrote:
have two on Memories, one from 1974 with ORTF and one from 1969 with the
Swedish Radio SO.
> Why bother? Especially with the latter?
>
> Michelangeli/Celibidache rule!
>
> dk
>
Which of several M/C recordings and which label to you recommend? I
>
> Michelangeli/Celibidache rule!
>
> dk
>
have two on Memories, one from 1974 with ORTF and one from 1969 with the
Swedish Radio SO.
O
Feb 9, 2019, 8:59:31 PM2/9/19
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Gerard
Feb 10, 2019, 6:11:23 AM2/10/19
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Op zaterdag 9 februari 2019 19:27:29 UTC+1 schreef Bozo:
(This answers my question.)
> The Barenboim/Klemperer was discussed,excerpt played ; the Horowitz/Reiner mentioned, not played.Fleisher/Szell, Cliburn/Reiner not mentioned. BBC reviewer thought Klemperer too slow, Horowitz not "imperious" enough. A fav of mine, Rubinstein/Krips , '50's, not mentioned.
Thanks.
(This answers my question.)
Ricardo Jimenez
Feb 10, 2019, 8:59:02 AM2/10/19
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On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 03:11:21 -0800 (PST), Gerard <cbc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The program was mostly about various short sections of the concerto
and compared how they were handled by a few pianists and/or
conductors. It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
familiar with the score as a performer. I am disappointed that the
posters here ignored that aspect and obsessed on Kenyon's opinions on
which performance of the whole concerto was better.
wrote:
and compared how they were handled by a few pianists and/or
conductors. It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
familiar with the score as a performer. I am disappointed that the
posters here ignored that aspect and obsessed on Kenyon's opinions on
which performance of the whole concerto was better.
JohnGavin
Feb 10, 2019, 8:59:49 AM2/10/19
to
Needless to say that if a reviewer or a
publication have a policy of ignoring
"pirate" or commercially available
"non-commercial" recordings, such
policy must be disclosed and clearly
stated up front, rather than being
left as an exercise for the reader
to read between the lines!
dk
publication have a policy of ignoring
"pirate" or commercially available
"non-commercial" recordings, such
policy must be disclosed and clearly
stated up front, rather than being
left as an exercise for the reader
to read between the lines!
A clue might be that in all these articles, the illustrated recordings are all commercial recordings.
In an essay on Michelangeli's wife states that her husband never gave approval for recordings made from broadcasts or pirates.
Bozo
Feb 10, 2019, 9:03:57 AM2/10/19
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>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 7:59:02 AM UTC-6, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
> familiar with the score as a performer.
Agreed.
> It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
> familiar with the score as a performer.
markm...@gmail.com
Feb 10, 2019, 9:36:36 AM2/10/19
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On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 12:27:29 PM UTC-6, Bozo wrote:
> The Barenboim/Klemperer was discussed,excerpt played ; the Horowitz/Reiner mentioned, not played.Fleisher/Szell, Cliburn/Reiner not mentioned. BBC reviewer thought Klemperer too slow, Horowitz not "imperious" enough. A fav of mine, Rubinstein/Krips , '50's, not mentioned.
I share your fondness for the Rubinstein/Krips, recorded in December of 1956, which outshines the two later recordings (with Leinsdorf and Barenboim) he made of the piece. The orchestra included many holdovers from Toscanini's NBC Symphony.
> The Barenboim/Klemperer was discussed,excerpt played ; the Horowitz/Reiner mentioned, not played.Fleisher/Szell, Cliburn/Reiner not mentioned. BBC reviewer thought Klemperer too slow, Horowitz not "imperious" enough. A fav of mine, Rubinstein/Krips , '50's, not mentioned.
Mark
Andy Evans
Feb 10, 2019, 9:47:08 AM2/10/19
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I was knocked out by the Michelangeli recording at the beginning of the review. It all went downhill from there....
cooper...@gmail.com
Feb 10, 2019, 10:33:19 AM2/10/19
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On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 9:47:08 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> I was knocked out by the Michelangeli recording at the beginning of the review. It all went downhill from there....
I'm with Dan when it comes to Michelangeli, but it's sad to see no mention of Katz/Barbirolli. Sic transit....
> I was knocked out by the Michelangeli recording at the beginning of the review. It all went downhill from there....
AC
AB
Feb 10, 2019, 12:50:26 PM2/10/19
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On Saturday, 9 February 2019 12:54:18 UTC-5, HT wrote:
> My favorite is Horowitz/Reiner.
>
> Henk
Horowitz is a bit tame.....grandeur is missing, no 'sweep'. The early ABM's are more exciting IMO
> My favorite is Horowitz/Reiner.
>
> Henk
AB
nmsz...@gmail.com
Feb 10, 2019, 1:56:55 PM2/10/19
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But?
Ashkenazy/Solti
Lupu/Mehta
Mentioned in classicalnotes:
Gould/Stokowski is one of my favs.
Bozo
Feb 10, 2019, 3:06:19 PM2/10/19
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>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-6, nmsz...@gmail.com wrote:
> Mentioned in classicalnotes:
> Gould/Stokowski is one of my favs.
Agreed, for me along with Rubinstein/Krips, Serkin/Bernstein.The Gould/Stokowski was briefly discussed, played early in the BBCR3 program , as was Serkin/Bernstein.
> Mentioned in classicalnotes:
> Gould/Stokowski is one of my favs.
Bozo
Feb 10, 2019, 3:13:25 PM2/10/19
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Here is another “Emperor” I’ve long admired , poor YT sound, but worth hearing, posted by Mark Ainley, who provides these YT notes :
“The famed Australian-born teacher, author, and pianist Ernest Hutcheson in a rare previously-unpublished concert recording of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto with the Chautauqua Symphony Orchestra conducted by Albert Stoessel - the likely date of the performance is July 24, 1938. Hutcheson wrote two important books, "The Literature of the Piano" and "The Elements of Piano Technique". He had studied under Carl Reinecke (who studied with Mendelssohn, Schumann and Liszt), Bernhard Stavenhagen (a pupil of Liszt) and Bruno Zwintscher (who studied under Moscheles, among others). He would become Dean and then President of the Juilliard School, and taught eminent pianists that included Bruce Hungerford and Abram Chasins. It is thanks to Hutcheson's support that Gershwin was able to have the seclusion he required at Chautauqua Institution in order to meet the deadline to finish his Piano Concerto in F. This unique broadcast recording - the only one I've come across of Hutcheson's playing (other than piano rolls) - features astounding pianism: a gorgeous polished sonority, marvellous variety of articulation, wonderfully shaped phrasing, attentive timing, and a whole host of other qualities that point to exceptional musicianship and mastery of the finest levels of technique.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3m-iNqVuNk
“The famed Australian-born teacher, author, and pianist Ernest Hutcheson in a rare previously-unpublished concert recording of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto with the Chautauqua Symphony Orchestra conducted by Albert Stoessel - the likely date of the performance is July 24, 1938. Hutcheson wrote two important books, "The Literature of the Piano" and "The Elements of Piano Technique". He had studied under Carl Reinecke (who studied with Mendelssohn, Schumann and Liszt), Bernhard Stavenhagen (a pupil of Liszt) and Bruno Zwintscher (who studied under Moscheles, among others). He would become Dean and then President of the Juilliard School, and taught eminent pianists that included Bruce Hungerford and Abram Chasins. It is thanks to Hutcheson's support that Gershwin was able to have the seclusion he required at Chautauqua Institution in order to meet the deadline to finish his Piano Concerto in F. This unique broadcast recording - the only one I've come across of Hutcheson's playing (other than piano rolls) - features astounding pianism: a gorgeous polished sonority, marvellous variety of articulation, wonderfully shaped phrasing, attentive timing, and a whole host of other qualities that point to exceptional musicianship and mastery of the finest levels of technique.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3m-iNqVuNk
Gerard
Feb 10, 2019, 3:18:01 PM2/10/19
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Op zondag 10 februari 2019 19:56:55 UTC+1 schreef nmsz...@gmail.com:
I am not 100% sure about this, but I thought that Lupu/Mehta was mentioned and played.
Bozo
Feb 10, 2019, 4:45:15 PM2/10/19
to
>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 2:18:01 PM UTC-6, Gerard wrote:
> I am not 100% sure about this, but I thought that Lupu/Mehta was mentioned and played.
Yes,both,very briefly as with all.
> I am not 100% sure about this, but I thought that Lupu/Mehta was mentioned and played.
hankdra...@gmail.com
Feb 11, 2019, 9:09:01 AM2/11/19
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On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 1:51:28 PM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 8:04:16 AM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/emperor.html
>
> Idiotic!
>
> dk
Call it what you will, but I'm glad to see Casadeus/NY Philharmonic/Mitropoulos (1956, Columbia) mentioned. I still treasure a scratchy old LP and am anticipating the reissue.
Hank
> On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 8:04:16 AM UTC-8, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics6/emperor.html
>
> Idiotic!
>
> dk
Call it what you will, but I'm glad to see Casadeus/NY Philharmonic/Mitropoulos (1956, Columbia) mentioned. I still treasure a scratchy old LP and am anticipating the reissue.
Hank
wkasimer
Feb 11, 2019, 10:01:19 AM2/11/19
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On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 8:59:02 AM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> The program was mostly about various short sections of the concerto
> and compared how they were handled by a few pianists and/or
> conductors. It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
> familiar with the score as a performer. I am disappointed that the
> posters here ignored that aspect and obsessed on Kenyon's opinions on
> which performance of the whole concerto was better.
I've been listening to a few episodes of the BBC reviews, and this is generally correct. The reviewers are far from comprehensive in their coverage of the works in question - the reviewer of Schubert's Schwanengesang managed to omit Hans Hotter, for example - but their comments are still interesting.
> The program was mostly about various short sections of the concerto
> and compared how they were handled by a few pianists and/or
> conductors. It was very worthwhile for somebody not intimately
> familiar with the score as a performer. I am disappointed that the
> posters here ignored that aspect and obsessed on Kenyon's opinions on
> which performance of the whole concerto was better.
Frank Berger
Feb 11, 2019, 10:09:44 AM2/11/19
to
in Paris. It was released Sony CD 5033952, which may have been a
Japanese release.
JohnA
Feb 11, 2019, 11:07:58 AM2/11/19
to
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 9:09:44 AM UTC-6, Frank Berger wrote:
> The Casadesus/Mitropoulos/NYPD Emperor was recorded in mono on 9/19/1955
> in Paris. It was released Sony CD 5033952, which may have been a
> Japanese release.
I believe it was a French release.
> The Casadesus/Mitropoulos/NYPD Emperor was recorded in mono on 9/19/1955
> in Paris. It was released Sony CD 5033952, which may have been a
> Japanese release.
Bozo
Feb 11, 2019, 11:12:31 AM2/11/19
to
Pierre-Laurent Aimard live “Emperor” with RCO under Francois-Xavier Roth in Amsterdam Jan. 31, 2019:
https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/8575-pierre-laurent-aimard-bij-het-concertgebouworkest
I listened ,but in fairness to Aimard no comments as I'm Emperor-ed out.
A recording of Aimard's was briefly mentioned, played on the BBC review.
https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/8575-pierre-laurent-aimard-bij-het-concertgebouworkest
I listened ,but in fairness to Aimard no comments as I'm Emperor-ed out.
A recording of Aimard's was briefly mentioned, played on the BBC review.
Frank Berger
Feb 11, 2019, 11:13:33 AM2/11/19
to
Message has been deleted
Herman
Feb 11, 2019, 2:31:54 PM2/11/19
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On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 7:09:57 PM UTC+1, dk wrote:
> Only studio recordings need approval by
> the artist to be released. Copyrights
> and playrights in broadcast recordings
> belong to the respective radio and TV
> stations.
>
> They cannot be blocked by the artist
> since they were already published by
> broadcasting them.
>
Oh yes they can be blocked by the artist's management. Usually the deal is the performance may be broadcast, but there is to be no dissemination of those recordings for commercial purposes. So if Orfeo makes turns those broadcasts into cd records, a new contract has to be made, and money will, again, change hands.
If the performer does not agree because he's fastidious about recordings, as may be the case of Michelangeli, then there is a problem.
> Only studio recordings need approval by
> the artist to be released. Copyrights
> and playrights in broadcast recordings
> belong to the respective radio and TV
> stations.
>
> They cannot be blocked by the artist
> since they were already published by
> broadcasting them.
>
Oh yes they can be blocked by the artist's management. Usually the deal is the performance may be broadcast, but there is to be no dissemination of those recordings for commercial purposes. So if Orfeo makes turns those broadcasts into cd records, a new contract has to be made, and money will, again, change hands.
If the performer does not agree because he's fastidious about recordings, as may be the case of Michelangeli, then there is a problem.
Gerard
Feb 11, 2019, 3:54:22 PM2/11/19
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Op maandag 11 februari 2019 17:12:31 UTC+1 schreef Bozo:
Indeed. IIRC with special admiration for Harnoncourt's conducting.
Message has been deleted
Mark Zimmer
Feb 13, 2019, 2:04:26 PM2/13/19
to
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 12:09:57 PM UTC-6, dk wrote:
> the legal side of the situation.
> hard media is perfectly legal, as
> long as the publisher has licensed
> them from the owning radio and TV
> companies.
>
> dk
From speaking with their archivist, Bavarian Radio seems to think they need Bayreuth's permission to license out their master recordings of classic Wagner performances from Bayreuth to Orfeo (and any other labels). Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual requirement, or they just don't want to piss off the Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a continuing relationship, I dunno.
Mark
> On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 5:59:49 AM UTC-8, JohnGavin wrote:
> > Needless to say that if a reviewer or a
> > publication have a policy of ignoring
> > "pirate" or commercially available
> > "non-commercial" recordings, such
> > policy must be disclosed and clearly
> > stated up front, rather than being
> > left as an exercise for the reader
> > to read between the lines!
> >
> > Needless to say that if a reviewer or a
> > publication have a policy of ignoring
> > "pirate" or commercially available
> > "non-commercial" recordings, such
> > policy must be disclosed and clearly
> > stated up front, rather than being
> > left as an exercise for the reader
> > to read between the lines!
> >
> > A clue might be that in all these articles,
> > the illustrated recordings are all commercial
> > recordings. In an essay on Michelangeli's wife
> > states that her husband never gave approval for
> > recordings made from broadcasts or pirates.
>
> Giulia Guidetti just didn't understand
> > the illustrated recordings are all commercial
> > recordings. In an essay on Michelangeli's wife
> > states that her husband never gave approval for
> > recordings made from broadcasts or pirates.
>
> the legal side of the situation.
>
> Only studio recordings need approval by
> the artist to be released. Copyrights
> and playrights in broadcast recordings
> belong to the respective radio and TV
> stations.
>
> They cannot be blocked by the artist
> since they were already published by
> broadcasting them.
>
> Publishing commercial recordings on
> Only studio recordings need approval by
> the artist to be released. Copyrights
> and playrights in broadcast recordings
> belong to the respective radio and TV
> stations.
>
> They cannot be blocked by the artist
> since they were already published by
> broadcasting them.
>
> hard media is perfectly legal, as
> long as the publisher has licensed
> them from the owning radio and TV
> companies.
>
> dk
From speaking with their archivist, Bavarian Radio seems to think they need Bayreuth's permission to license out their master recordings of classic Wagner performances from Bayreuth to Orfeo (and any other labels). Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual requirement, or they just don't want to piss off the Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a continuing relationship, I dunno.
Mark
Herman
Feb 13, 2019, 3:03:25 PM2/13/19
to
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:04:26 PM UTC+1, Mark Zimmer wrote:
>Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual requirement, or they just don't want to piss off the Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a continuing relationship, I dunno.
>
> Mark
the word no-brainer comes to mind.
>Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual requirement, or they just don't want to piss off the Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a continuing relationship, I dunno.
>
> Mark
Andrew Clarke
Feb 13, 2019, 4:26:27 PM2/13/19
to
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Bozo
Feb 13, 2019, 5:43:11 PM2/13/19
to
>On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 3:26:27 PM UTC-6, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 12:59:02 AM UTC+11, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
As indicated in my reply to Mr.Jimenez' post, I also find the BBC program " worthwhile " , learn something each time,and will continue to listen.
> On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 12:59:02 AM UTC+11, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
Message has been deleted
Andrew Clarke
Feb 14, 2019, 1:45:16 AM2/14/19
to
Of course, the usual suspects are adamant that there must be a fiddle going on somewhere that isn't immediately obvious, and they are determined to flush it out, come hell or high water.
So far, the only indication of prejudice is that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Message has been deleted
Bozo
Feb 14, 2019, 9:26:21 AM2/14/19
to
>On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 12:45:16 AM UTC-6, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> Of course, the usual suspects are adamant that there must be a fiddle going on somewhere that isn't >immediately obvious...
With the exception of the Philharmonia and EMI. I dont believe any of the other labels, artists Kenyon chose were British.
> Of course, the usual suspects are adamant that there must be a fiddle going on somewhere that isn't >immediately obvious...
With the exception of the Philharmonia and EMI. I dont believe any of the other labels, artists Kenyon chose were British.
Frank Berger
Feb 14, 2019, 9:44:13 AM2/14/19
to
opinion that there "must be a fiddle going on......" is likely based on
prejudice.
Mark Zimmer
Feb 14, 2019, 4:26:15 PM2/14/19
to
On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 9:45:08 PM UTC-6, dk wrote:
> Other radio stations may act differently, especially
> if they are in different jurisdictions. Also note
> that Bayreuth has clout others don't.
>
> dk
Oh, I have a very educated guess; I just don't know for a certainty. ;)
Mark
> > From speaking with their archivist, Bavarian Radio
> > seems to think they need Bayreuth's permission to
> > license out their master recordings of classic
> > Wagner performances from Bayreuth to Orfeo
> > (and any other labels).
>
> This doesn't make their practice or policies into law.
> > seems to think they need Bayreuth's permission to
> > license out their master recordings of classic
> > Wagner performances from Bayreuth to Orfeo
> > (and any other labels).
>
> Other radio stations may act differently, especially
> if they are in different jurisdictions. Also note
> that Bayreuth has clout others don't.
>
> > Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual
>
> Contracts can differ too!
> > Whether there's a legal requirement, a contractual
>
> > requirement, or they just don't want to piss off the
> > Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a
> > continuing relationship, I dunno.
>
> Your educated guess? ;-)
> > Powers that Be at Bayreuth with whom they have a
> > continuing relationship, I dunno.
>
>
> dk
Oh, I have a very educated guess; I just don't know for a certainty. ;)
Mark
Andrew Clarke
Feb 14, 2019, 6:25:15 PM2/14/19
to
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:49:27 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
>
> dk
You cared enough to question Kenyon's integrity. Can you explain?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
> On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 10:45:16 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >
> > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
>
> I couldn't care less!
> >
> > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
>
>
> dk
You cared enough to question Kenyon's integrity. Can you explain?
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Message has been deleted
Andrew Clarke
Feb 14, 2019, 11:24:50 PM2/14/19
to
On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> questioned his taste and intelligence.
>
> Pax vobiscum.
>
> dk
So who is this dk who posted the following?
"Beyond ridiculous! There is
Michelangeli/Celibidache,
and then everybody else.
I can certainly understand
ABM/Celi may not be everyone's
cup of tea, however not including
it in the survey demonstrates
deep prejudice and illiteracy!"
dk
> On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:49:27 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 10:45:16 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > > > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
> > >
> > > I couldn't care less!
> >
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:49:27 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 10:45:16 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > > > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
> > >
> > > I couldn't care less!
> >
> > You cared enough to question
> > Kenyon's integrity. Can you
> > explain?
>
> I never questioned his "integrity"! I
> > Kenyon's integrity. Can you
> > explain?
>
> questioned his taste and intelligence.
>
> Pax vobiscum.
>
> dk
So who is this dk who posted the following?
"Beyond ridiculous! There is
Michelangeli/Celibidache,
and then everybody else.
I can certainly understand
ABM/Celi may not be everyone's
cup of tea, however not including
it in the survey demonstrates
deep prejudice and illiteracy!"
dk
Message has been deleted
Bozo
Feb 15, 2019, 8:35:41 AM2/15/19
to
>On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 1:49:26 AM UTC-6, dk wrote:
> PS. The Big Wall of Great
> America should be build on
> the Mason-Dixon line, not
> on the Rio Grande! ;-)
Agreed, except Trump and many of his voters live north of that line, as PT Barnum knew.
> PS. The Big Wall of Great
> America should be build on
> the Mason-Dixon line, not
> on the Rio Grande! ;-)
Agreed, except Trump and many of his voters live north of that line, as PT Barnum knew.
Andrew Clarke
Feb 15, 2019, 6:43:17 PM2/15/19
to
On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 6:49:26 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> integrity" in what I wrote?
>
> Prejudice does not imply lack
> of integrity! See for instance
> Jeff Sessions and others South
> of the border! ;-)
>
> dk
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
> On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 8:24:50 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:49:27 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 10:45:16 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > > > > > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
> > > > >
> > > > > I couldn't care less!
> > > >
> > > > You cared enough to question
> > > > Kenyon's integrity. Can you
> > > > explain?
> > >
> > > I never questioned his "integrity"! I
> > > questioned his taste and intelligence.
> > >
> > > Pax vobiscum.
> >
> > On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:09:10 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 3:25:15 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 7:49:27 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 10:45:16 PM UTC-8, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So far, the only indication of prejudice is
> > > > > > that Mr Kenyon doesn't agree with Mr Koren.
> > > > >
> > > > > I couldn't care less!
> > > >
> > > > You cared enough to question
> > > > Kenyon's integrity. Can you
> > > > explain?
> > >
> > > I never questioned his "integrity"! I
> > > questioned his taste and intelligence.
> > >
> > > Pax vobiscum.
> >
> > So who is this dk who posted the following?
> >
> > "Beyond ridiculous! There is
> > Michelangeli/Celibidache,
> > and then everybody else.
> >
> > I can certainly understand
> > ABM/Celi may not be everyone's
> > cup of tea, however not including
> > it in the survey demonstrates
> > deep prejudice and illiteracy!"
>
> Where does one read "lack of
> >
> > "Beyond ridiculous! There is
> > Michelangeli/Celibidache,
> > and then everybody else.
> >
> > I can certainly understand
> > ABM/Celi may not be everyone's
> > cup of tea, however not including
> > it in the survey demonstrates
> > deep prejudice and illiteracy!"
>
> integrity" in what I wrote?
>
> Prejudice does not imply lack
> of integrity! See for instance
> Jeff Sessions and others South
> of the border! ;-)
>
> dk
>
> PS. The Big Wall of Great
> America should be build on
> the Mason-Dixon line, not
> on the Rio Grande! ;-)
Conscious prejudice does imply lack of integrity, especially if venal, and enough of the red herrings already. What evidence do you have that Kenyon is prejudiced in any way whatsoever?
> PS. The Big Wall of Great
> America should be build on
> the Mason-Dixon line, not
> on the Rio Grande! ;-)
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Message has been deleted
Herman
Feb 16, 2019, 3:22:37 AM2/16/19
to
try making an assertion without an exclamation mark or a smiley.
or, easier, take some medication.
or, easier, take some medication.
Message has been deleted
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 17, 2019, 1:47:39 PM2/17/19
to
On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 5:08:15 AM UTC-10, Bozo wrote:
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
>
> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
>
> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
>
> Recommended Recording:
>
> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
>
> Other Recommended Recordings:
>
> Classic
>
> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
>
> Later generation
>
> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
According to this recent article:
- Andsnes makes his mark in the initial flourish with playing that has the requisite steel but which is tempered with a twinkle....
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/the-50-greatest-beethoven-recordings
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
>
> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
>
> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
>
> Recommended Recording:
>
> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
>
> Other Recommended Recordings:
>
> Classic
>
> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
>
> Later generation
>
> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
According to this recent article:
- Andsnes makes his mark in the initial flourish with playing that has the requisite steel but which is tempered with a twinkle....
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/the-50-greatest-beethoven-recordings
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 17, 2019, 2:01:51 PM2/17/19
to
On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 5:08:15 AM UTC-10, Bozo wrote:
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
>
> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
>
> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
>
> Recommended Recording:
>
> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
>
> Other Recommended Recordings:
>
> Classic
>
> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
>
> Later generation
>
> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/beethoven$20concerto$20schnabel%7Csort:relevance/rec.music.classical.recordings/gF1JtDzIBH0/32wLTjWzFDwJ
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
>
> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
>
> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
>
> Recommended Recording:
>
> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
>
> Other Recommended Recordings:
>
> Classic
>
> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
>
> Later generation
>
> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/beethoven$20concerto$20schnabel%7Csort:relevance/rec.music.classical.recordings/9bTj3xhX3KM/Ry3u5vcVG1EJ
Andrew Clarke
Feb 17, 2019, 4:58:14 PM2/17/19
to
On Saturday, February 16, 2019 at 12:08:10 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> unconscious. You seem to insist
> upon reading between lines words
> that are not there.
> interrogations! i am not going
> to play this stupid game of
> "evidence"! R.m.c.r is not a
> court of law, and discussions
> here do not require "evidence"!
>
> What evidence is needed beyond
> the fact he mentioned only the
> worst of ABM's performances of
> the work ?!? This can only be
> imbecility, prejudice, or both!
>
> Again, I never questioned Kenyon's
> "integrity". One must be paranoid
> to read something like this between
> lines! Prejudiced people can display
> integrity (see Jeff Sessions). And
> imbeciles can display integrity too!
So Kenyon is prejudiced because he didn't mention your own preferred performance?
I can understand your unwillingness to produce your evidence, given that you haven't got any :-)
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
> > > PS. The Big Wall of Great
> > > America should be build on
> > > the Mason-Dixon line, not
> > > on the Rio Grande! ;-)
> >
> > Conscious prejudice does imply
> > lack of integrity, especially
> > if venal,
>
> Prejudice can be (and often is)
> > > America should be build on
> > > the Mason-Dixon line, not
> > > on the Rio Grande! ;-)
> >
> > Conscious prejudice does imply
> > lack of integrity, especially
> > if venal,
>
> unconscious. You seem to insist
> upon reading between lines words
> that are not there.
>
> > and enough of the red herrings
> > already. What evidence do you
> > have that Kenyon is prejudiced
> > in any way whatsoever?
>
> Enough of your petty legalistic
> > and enough of the red herrings
> > already. What evidence do you
> > have that Kenyon is prejudiced
> > in any way whatsoever?
>
> interrogations! i am not going
> to play this stupid game of
> "evidence"! R.m.c.r is not a
> court of law, and discussions
> here do not require "evidence"!
>
> What evidence is needed beyond
> the fact he mentioned only the
> worst of ABM's performances of
> the work ?!? This can only be
> imbecility, prejudice, or both!
>
> Again, I never questioned Kenyon's
> "integrity". One must be paranoid
> to read something like this between
> lines! Prejudiced people can display
> integrity (see Jeff Sessions). And
> imbeciles can display integrity too!
So Kenyon is prejudiced because he didn't mention your own preferred performance?
I can understand your unwillingness to produce your evidence, given that you haven't got any :-)
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Message has been deleted
Andrew Clarke
Feb 17, 2019, 10:58:08 PM2/17/19
to
On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 1:49:21 PM UTC+11, dk wrote:
> I am certainly not the only person who
> believes Michelangeli's readings of the
> Emperoar are the very best! Kenyon only
> mentioned one of them in passing (and
> it happened to be the weakest) without
> reviewing it at all. Maybe this does
> not as prejudice in the land down
> under, but it would pretty much
> everywhere else on this planet!
> request for "evidence"! This is not a law
> court and this discussion is not a trial!
>
> dk
No it doesn't necessarily count as prejudice anywhere on the planet. Kenyon might have had a genuine preference for one of the other recordings. The only trial in this discussion is you :-)
Speaking of evidence, I was both amused and horrified at the so called evidence produced by one Dr Christine Blimey Ford who claimed to have been in fear of her life while being groped at a party forty years ago by somebody who she later thought must have been Ted Kavanaugh. This isn't enough evidence to get somebody a parking ticket in Tuscaloosa, let alone deny someone a seat in the Supreme Court. But then Kavanaugh was a Trump nomination, so we don't need evidence do we? :-)
I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one jot or one tittle.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
> believes Michelangeli's readings of the
> Emperoar are the very best! Kenyon only
> mentioned one of them in passing (and
> it happened to be the weakest) without
> reviewing it at all. Maybe this does
> not as prejudice in the land down
> under, but it would pretty much
> everywhere else on this planet!
>
> > I can understand your unwillingness to
> > produce your evidence, given that you
> > haven't got any :-)
>
> Stop fucking everybody's brains with your
> > I can understand your unwillingness to
> > produce your evidence, given that you
> > haven't got any :-)
>
> request for "evidence"! This is not a law
> court and this discussion is not a trial!
>
> dk
No it doesn't necessarily count as prejudice anywhere on the planet. Kenyon might have had a genuine preference for one of the other recordings. The only trial in this discussion is you :-)
Speaking of evidence, I was both amused and horrified at the so called evidence produced by one Dr Christine Blimey Ford who claimed to have been in fear of her life while being groped at a party forty years ago by somebody who she later thought must have been Ted Kavanaugh. This isn't enough evidence to get somebody a parking ticket in Tuscaloosa, let alone deny someone a seat in the Supreme Court. But then Kavanaugh was a Trump nomination, so we don't need evidence do we? :-)
I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one jot or one tittle.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
JohnGavin
Feb 18, 2019, 5:24:49 AM2/18/19
to
Ted Kavanaugh died in 1958. Try again...... on second thought don’t.
Andrew Clarke
Feb 18, 2019, 6:45:51 AM2/18/19
to
On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 9:24:49 PM UTC+11, JohnGavin wrote:
> Ted Kavanaugh died in 1958. Try again...... on second thought don’t.
Brett Kavanaugh of course. My memory is not what it was.
> Ted Kavanaugh died in 1958. Try again...... on second thought don’t.
I can thoroughly understand your sour disposition. To have been known as "the poor man's Rock Hudson" must be galling enough, but to have been dead for just over a year now sounds even worse. How was Mexico?
Vaya con Dios,
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
JohnGavin
Feb 18, 2019, 7:11:59 AM2/18/19
to
That John Gavin would have sympathized with your politics.
I wonder however, if he would support the wall to keep Mexicans out.
That would pose a real problem for him.
I wonder however, if he would support the wall to keep Mexicans out.
That would pose a real problem for him.
Frank Berger
Feb 18, 2019, 9:12:19 AM2/18/19
to
illegally, not just Mexicans. And even if you think those who want the
wall don't like Mexicans, do you think they like Guatemalans any better?
(This posted by someone not in favor of the wall, by the way)
JohnGavin
Feb 18, 2019, 10:15:06 AM2/18/19
to
The wall would be to intended to keep out anyone who wanted to enter
illegally, not just Mexicans. And even if you think those who want the
wall don't like Mexicans, do you think they like Guatemalans any better?
(This posted by someone not in favor of the wall, by the way)
I’ve violated my own rule of not entering into politics. I don’t have answers to these issues - and no hard feelings were intended to Andrew or any viewpoints- I couldn’t resist the response to the Kavanaugh reference - it just seemed to pour out on its own. One thing for sure - self control is always a good idea.
illegally, not just Mexicans. And even if you think those who want the
wall don't like Mexicans, do you think they like Guatemalans any better?
(This posted by someone not in favor of the wall, by the way)
Herman
Feb 18, 2019, 11:13:54 AM2/18/19
to
no big deal.
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 18, 2019, 11:57:05 AM2/18/19
to
Goethe
Message has been deleted
music lover
Feb 18, 2019, 4:40:32 PM2/18/19
to
There is little, if any, upside to Trump. Most are hoping for no long term permanent damage from the malevolent narcissist.
gggg...@gmail.com
Feb 18, 2019, 4:46:09 PM2/18/19
to
On Monday, February 18, 2019 at 11:40:32 AM UTC-10, music lover wrote:
> There is little, if any, upside to Trump. Most are hoping for no long term permanent damage from the malevolent narcissist.
The longer he is in office, the more the world will slowly realize that they are at the mercy of his bad decisions and stupid mistakes.
> There is little, if any, upside to Trump. Most are hoping for no long term permanent damage from the malevolent narcissist.
Bob Harper
Feb 18, 2019, 6:53:49 PM2/18/19
to
On 2/17/19 7:58 PM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
(snip)
Bob Harper
(snip)
> Speaking of evidence, I was both amused and horrified at the so called evidence produced by one Dr Christine Blimey Ford who claimed to have been in fear of her life while being groped at a party forty years ago by somebody who she later thought must have been Ted Kavanaugh. This isn't enough evidence to get somebody a parking ticket in Tuscaloosa, let alone deny someone a seat in the Supreme Court. But then Kavanaugh was a Trump nomination, so we don't need evidence do we? :-)
>
> I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one jot or one tittle.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
>
Thank you, Andrew. Well said, indeed.
>
> I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one jot or one tittle.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
>
Bob Harper
music lover
Feb 18, 2019, 7:47:22 PM2/18/19
to
“The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past.” Faulkner got it right. And I’m sure we’d all find Robert E Lee to be a gentleman. But it doesn’t appear to be the point. Is it?
Bozo
Feb 18, 2019, 7:53:09 PM2/18/19
to
>On Sunday, February 17, 2019 at 9:58:08 PM UTC-6, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity >politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General >Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one >jot or one tittle.
I rather think Trump proves, once again, there is no God. IF He or She or It exists, created Trump to remind, send final warnings you can fool all the people some of the time, even fool God; that PT Barnum was right ; and that Lee's decision to send thousands to their deaths at Pickett's Charge should bring to mind Trump's " good people on both sides" Chalrottesville comment. At least identified Russians should have no trouble getting US visas.Trump after terminating his early phone call with the Australian PM :
> I often think that President Trump was created by Almighty God to expose the diseased thinking of identity >politicians and their posturing allies. And that includes those who think that pulling down statues of General >Robert E. Lee - a gentleman if ever there was one - is going to change life in the 'hoods, North or South one >jot or one tittle.
" Do you believe it? The Obama Administration agreed to take thousands of illegal immigrants from Australia. Why? I will study this dumb deal! "
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 2, 2017
Andrew Clarke
Feb 18, 2019, 10:43:24 PM2/18/19
to
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Andrew Clarke
Feb 18, 2019, 11:18:40 PM2/18/19
to
On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 11:47:22 AM UTC+11, music lover wrote:
> “The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past.” Faulkner got it right. And I’m sure we’d all find Robert E Lee to be a gentleman. But it doesn’t appear to be the point. Is it?
I'd sum it up as follows: if you believe there's a problem, it's as well to be able to prove that the problem exists and what exactly the problem is, for which you need evidence. And if you want to solve that problem you need more, a lot more,than virtue signalling. If slavery's a putative underlying cause of the 'hoods and their problems, it'd be better to pull down statues of Patrick 'Give me Liberty' Henry, who owned slaves, rather than statues of Robert E Lee, who did not, and who disapproved of slavery as an institution.
> “The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past.” Faulkner got it right. And I’m sure we’d all find Robert E Lee to be a gentleman. But it doesn’t appear to be the point. Is it?
Returning to the original dispute: dk's allegations of prejudice do not, IMO, have any foundation whatsoever, and his subsequent allegations re prejudice south of the Mason-Dixon line I find a little simplistic. I'm sure he might feel a little prejudiced if he had to live in Pine Bluff, Arkansas or Memphis, Tennessee, not to mention parts of the Big Easy. I know I would.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Andrew Clarke
Feb 18, 2019, 11:40:39 PM2/18/19
to
I have to say that when I first heard about that immigration deal with the US administration, I ccouldn't see why or how this deal had come about. From an American viewpoint, I think 'dumb deal' might be an understatement. Very few illegal immigrants to Australia seem to be asylum seekers as such: it's actually hard to tell, because having got onto those ocean-going death traps in Indonesia, they are told to destroy all identity papers, so that there is no concrete evidence - there we go again - that a dentist from Karachi is not the Syrian refugee he claims to be when or if he lands on Australian territory. I say 'if' because the number of deaths by drowning is believed to be very high indeed.
Australia has no problem with immigrants who go through the proper channels and meet our criteria, viz that they are basically employable. If you go to the CBDs of Sydney or Melbourne you might well believe you're in an Asian city. I call our usual hotel in Parramatta, Sydney, "The Himalaya" because it's where India and China meet.
Andrew Clarke
Canberra
music lover
Feb 19, 2019, 12:10:23 AM2/19/19
to
Lots to bite off here. But please check your facts regarding Robert E Lee and his slave holdings. Eastern Europe has had a bit of success moving statues of their former communist masters to places in which to contemplate the past. Bet there’s a few here who give them a pass on that. The period in which many of the most prominent Southern civil war statues were erected occurred from the 1890’s through the 1950’s. They seem to be symbols of oppression and past transgressions.
gggg gggg
Jul 19, 2021, 12:02:50 AM7/19/21
to
On Saturday, February 9, 2019 at 7:08:15 AM UTC-8, Bozo wrote:
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
>
> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
>
> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
>
> Recommended Recording:
>
> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
>
> Other Recommended Recordings:
>
> Classic
>
> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
>
> Later generation
>
> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
(Recent Y. upload):
> 9.30am – Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’
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> Composer: Ludwig van Beethoven
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> Reviewer: Nicholas Kenyon
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> Recommended Recording:
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> Hannes Minnaar (piano)
> Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
> Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
> Channel CC72672
> https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/albums/CC72672-piano-concertos-4-5
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> Other Recommended Recordings:
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> Classic
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> Claudio Arrau (piano)
> Philharmonia Orchestra
> Alceo Galliera (conductor)
> EMI CDZ 7 67384
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> Later generation
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> Krystian Zimmerman
> Wiener Philharmoniker
> Leonard Bernstein
> DG 435 470-2
>
> Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72
Krystian Zimerman – Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E Flat Major, Op. 73: II. Adagio un poco moto
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