Cortot / Beethoven : Complete Piano Sonatas
Tomm_nk
Cortot's Beethoven complete piano sonatas. However, recently there is
not news about that.
Does anyone know that?
weary flake
Seems interesting. Is that something that was recorded and
then never released?
mandryka
I believe he recorded the sonatas for HMV France in the late 50s,
and maybe before that. But no commercial releases as far as I know.
Oh -- there were some ten minute snippets on youtube, which didn't
sound at all bad.
Maybe someone here knows why they haven't been released. That would
certainly interest me.
Did he ever record Beethoven sonatas before that? There's a piano roll
of Op 110 (or is it Op 109?), but nothing else commercially produced
on CD. Maybe there were some other rolls, or even 78s or LPs, I don't
know.
We need a Cortot expert here.
Dontait...@aol.com
I'm not a Cortot expert by any means, although I've always collected
his recordings and love his playing despite its faults. But I have
heard for decades that he recorded all 32 Beethoven sonatas for HMV
France during the 1950s. That was confirmed to me some years ago by
Richard Dyer, the now-retired music critic of the Boston Globe, who
studied with Cortot during the 1950s. Richard was quite definite about
it. I've heard rumors too over the years that the cycle might be
finally released, most recently during the 1990s. But it's never
happened. It's something I'd *love* to hear and know.
I don't recall a published Cortot phonograph (or gramophone)
recording of any Beethoven sonata. But that's my memory.
I ought to try to contact Dick Dyer to ask him for confirmation
about this.
It's a fascinating possibility and/or prospect, isn't it?
Don Tait
Tomm_nk
http://www.arbiterrecords.com/musicresourcecenter/cortdisc.html
Extant unpublished recordings:
Beethoven's 32 Sonatas were recorded twice, once with Cortot's
comments. They ought to be in Pathe Marconi's Paris archive. They may
date from 1957 and might be poorly played.
or
http://fischer.hosting.paran.com/music/Cortot/discography-cortot.htm
Complete Piano Sonatas(32 works)
1) ?(piano roll recording)
* CD ; Nimbus Records NI 8814(No.30), Klavier Records #11096
[ Note ] Thanks to Mr. J.L..
2) 1957(?)
* Unreleased by Pathé-Marconi
[ Note ] After Cortot's apprentice, Thomas Manshardt's
reminiscence.
rje
In a conversation I had with Stuart Brown several years ago, he said
that he had considered the possibility of releasing at least some of
Cortot's EMI France Beethoven cycle, but after listening to the
recordings he decided against issuing any of them because he thought
it would be a disservice to Cortot's memory.
Ray
mandryka
I'm glad to have a recording of a Chopin concert he gave in 1957 in
Munich. One reason these late recordings are so valuable is that you
can hear the tone he made pretty clearly. Another reason is that some
of them (like the 50s Schumann recordings) are IMO some of his
greatest work.
I haven't heard the CDs which came out of of the Tokyo concerts from
1852. How do people here find them?
There were a couple of scherzos on youtube from this period -- I think
they are taken from those Tokyo concerts. Maybe a bit shaky -- but
full of interesting expressive details. In the second, listen to how
he plays the second questioning phrase slightly softer than the first.
Things like this make me regret that the Beethoven isn't more widely
available. Has anyone here heard the recordings? I just noticed they
are available pretty cheaply from japcd.
SparkyMcGee
consider releasing these online as is (no engineering) - it would be
easy enough to do, and would probably make them enough money from
piano buffs to make it worthwhile.
RJM
rje
> I haven't heard the CDs which came out of of the Tokyo concerts from
> 1852. How do people here find them?
>
> There were a couple of scherzos on youtube from this period -- I think
> they are taken from those Tokyo concerts. Maybe a bit shaky -- but
> full of interesting expressive details. In the second, listen to how
> he plays the second questioning phrase slightly softer than the first.
>
> Things like this make me regret that the Beethoven isn't more widely
> available. Has anyone here heard the recordings? I just noticed they
> are available pretty cheaply from japcd.
The 1952 Japanese Victor recordings were made in a rather dry
recording studio that does not flatter Cortot's occasional wrong
notes, but he nevertheless plays with verve and panache and his
wonderful--and unmistakable--style is on full display.
I am curious about the Beethoven recordings that you mention being
available from "japcd." Can you post a link?
Ray
mandryka
I meant that the Tokyo recordings are available at CD Japan, currently
at a slight discount. I just ordered them in fact.
Sorry -- you must have been very curious indeed if you thought I meant
some Beethoven CDs!
I jyust listened to the 1955 Munich Chopin preludes -- astonishing
music making IMO.
piano4tay
I have to agree about the 1955 Preludes - I have cherished this as my
'all time favourite' performance of this work for many
years...However, from what I've heard from friends who have listened
to them, the later recordings of the Beethoven sonatas do not approach
this standard and not even interesting fragments can be salvaged -
rather like Horowitz's 1983 Tokyo recital, which I live in shame at
having once sought out....
Mark
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
"piano4tay" <amarkn...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:466c3812-9a15-47b6...@s5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
|However, from what I've heard from friends who have listened
|to them, the later recordings of the Beethoven sonatas do not approach
|this standard and not even interesting fragments can be salvaged
What I did hear on YouTube of Cortot's 1960 attempt to play the Beethoven
sonatas is so far below any standard that they deserve to be forgotten.
Cortot is often very disappointing. I stopped buying the Naxos remasterings.
The GPOC set contains his best performances.
Henk
mandryka
But what do you think of the fragments on youtube? They're nice IMO.
weary flake
> > In a conversation I had with Stuart Brown several years ago, he said
> > that he had considered the possibility of releasing at least some of
> > Cortot's EMI France Beethoven cycle, but after listening to the
> > recordings he decided against issuing any of them because he thought
> > it would be a disservice to Cortot's memory.
>
> I'm glad to have a recording of a Chopin concert he gave in 1957 in
> Munich. One reason these late recordings are so valuable is that you
> can hear the tone he made pretty clearly. Another reason is that some
> of them (like the 50s Schumann recordings) are IMO some of his
> greatest work.
To put things in perspective, could it be that the executive
dismissal of an already recorded beethoven cycle could have been
made by someone who simply hates all 1950s era Cortot? Cortot
was hated for musical reasons and hated for political reasons.
woytek
>
I absolutely agree!
mandryka
> "piano4tay" <amarknicho...@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:466c3812-9a15-47b6...@s5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I think he did some nice recordings which, as far as I remember,
aren't in GPOC (I haven't checked)
Off the top of my head the Nocturne Op 27/1 1947 Polonaise
Fantasie, Davidsbundlertanze, the Weber Sonata ,the 1st Chopin
Ballade , the Liszt Legend, 1951 Schumann Concerto with Fricsay., the
1948 LP Bach Prelude
And there's the Mozart Fantasie K475, too . . But maybe that's not
allowed.
And some of the work in the GPOC isn't obviously the best choice to
me. I prefer the earlier Debussy Preludes to the second survey, and I
prefer the later Schumann Etudes and Kinderszenen to the earlier
(partly because the sound is better) And then there's those 1950s
Munich preludes -- have you heard how he plays the Raindrops prelude
there?
mandryka
Possibly -- but some post war material was released. The 1953 Etudes
for example, which were published by La Voix de son Maitre in 1954.
And the 1947/1948 Chopin nocturnes were released too.
My feeling is that more mundane things are at play -- maybe the
recordings will need a lot of work to get them into publishable shape,
and none is willing to put up the investment.
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
"mandryka" <howie...@googlemail.com> schreef in bericht
news:49000769-6b1e-4141...@a28g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
|I think he did some nice recordings which, as far as I remember,
|aren't in GPOC (I haven't checked)
|Off the top of my head the Nocturne Op 27/1 1947 Polonaise
|Fantasie, Davidsbundlertanze, the Weber Sonata ,the 1st Chopin
|Ballade , the Liszt Legend, 1951 Schumann Concerto with Fricsay., the
|1948 LP Bach Prelude
I'll revisit the Chopin, the Schumann, Weber and Liszt. If they are on CD I
must have them somewhere.
|And there's the Mozart Fantasie K475, too . . But maybe that's not
|allowed.
Why not? Or is it on LP? I don't have LPs.
|And some of the work in the GPOC isn't obviously the best choice to
|me. I prefer the earlier Debussy Preludes to the second survey, and I
|prefer the later Schumann Etudes and Kinderszenen to the earlier
|(partly because the sound is better) And then there's those 1950s
|Munich preludes -- have you heard how he plays the Raindrops prelude
|there?
The 1950 Munich preludes? I do have the 1921 on Naxos, and those on EMI and
in the GPOC. I don't know the recording date(s) of the EMI and GPOC.
Thanks, Henk
mandryka
> "mandryka" <howie.st...@googlemail.com> schreef in berichtnews:49000769-6b1e-4141...@a28g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
The K475 is on the Master Class recordings on Sony. He plays quite a
lot of it continuously.
The Munich preludes are here -- a live recording, with sound which
reveals his piano tome pretty well I think. I think he was really
inspired that night.
I put the Schumann concerto and a handful of other very late concert
pieces (Chopin) on symphonyshare. I put the Munich preludes on
demonoid.
gperkins151
> > But what do you think of the fragments on youtube? They're nice IMO.- Ukryj cytowany tekst -
>
> I absolutely agree!
Me too.
G
Al Eisner
> I think he did some nice recordings which, as far as I remember,
> aren't in GPOC (I haven't checked)
>
> Off the top of my head : the Nocturne Op 27/1 is the The 1947
> Polonaise Fantasie, or Davidsbundlertanze, or the Weber Sonata or the
> 1st Chopin Ballade or the Liszt Legend, the 1951 Schumann Concerto
> with Fricsay.
I'm quite fond of the 1934 Concerto with Landon Ronald (or is it
Ronaald Landon?) -- highly indivualistic (at least from a more modern
perspective), but consistently interesting. How does that later version
compare?
--
Al Eisner
mandryka
Landon Ronald
The one with Fricsay is my favourite -- but I may be the only one with
that opinion. The start is dodgy, but he soon gets on track. The
rapport with the orchestra is amazing. I'm sure that there are slips
-- but it doesn't bother me.
Of the older ones the 1934 is very good.
Howard
Al Eisner
> On Dec 2, 11:58 pm, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2010, mandryka wrote:
>>> I think he did some nice recordings which, as far as I remember,
>>> aren't in GPOC (I haven't checked)
>>
>>> Off the top of my head : the Nocturne Op 27/1 is the The 1947
>>> Polonaise Fantasie, or Davidsbundlertanze, or the Weber Sonata or the
>>> 1st Chopin Ballade or the Liszt Legend, the 1951 Schumann Concerto
>>> with Fricsay.
>>
>> I'm quite fond of the 1934 Concerto with Landon Ronald (or is it
>> Ronaald Landon?) -- highly indivualistic (at least from a more modern
>> perspective), but consistently interesting. How does that later version
>> compare?
>
> Landon Ronald
I actually knew that, but it still sounds backwards!
> The one with Fricsay is my favourite -- but I may be the only one with
> that opinion. The start is dodgy, but he soon gets on track. The
> rapport with the orchestra is amazing. I'm sure that there are slips
> -- but it doesn't bother me.
>
> Of the older ones the 1934 is very good.
Thanks. (I've missed some days of reading messages.) I probably don't
"need" more than one Cortot performance of this, but it's interesting to
hear of any late Cortot which "works".
--
Al Eisner