CDR vs. CDWR's
James K. Stevenson
simple portable CD player that takes CDWR's as well as regular and
"finailized" CDR's. It is just a matter of programming the player to
recognize the CDWR as I understand it. If I am misinformed, I await
chastisement. However, I know several CD collectors would prefer to be
able to erase a CD once we became thoroughly sick of hearing it with our
portable CD players.
Jim
mae...@my-deja.com
The recent batch of new Philips-Maganvox portable CD players can play
CDRWs, as well as CDRs. You can get a basic model for as little as $40,
I believe (disclaimer: no association with Philips, of course).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mif
performers make money if I can make a pristine-perfect copy of a CD I
borrow from the library or my neighbor? Isn't it only a matter of time
before whole CDs can be downloaded on the web and copied onto
end-users' CDs for free?
In article <jksteven-120...@cvx-dial382.seidata.com>,
jkst...@seidata.com (James K. Stevenson) wrote:
> Now I would like to know when some company will get smart and make
> a
> simple portable CD player that takes CDWR's as well as regular and
> "finailized" CDR's. It is just a matter of programming the player
> to
> recognize the CDWR as I understand it. If I am misinformed, I await
> chastisement. However, I know several CD collectors would prefer
> to be
> able to erase a CD once we became thoroughly sick of hearing it
> with our
> portable CD players.
> Jim
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Lloyd Piper
to the poster:
Yes, there are copyright issues. That's why stand-alone CD
recorders require special blank CD-R's. Audio-only CD-R's
cost more (in the USA at least) than Computer CD-R's due to a
copyright fee that is imposed on the purchase price of the blank CD.
Computer CD-R's will typically not be recognized by the stand-alone
CD Recorder. Computer CD-Recorders are not subject to the
copyright tax.
I have never seen an explanation of how these copyright royalties are
disbursed to the copyright owners.
In addition, there are bits embedded in the digital stream that
allow or disallow a digital copy of the source material. Typically,
the stand-alone recorders will make a first generation digital copy
of anything (for "archival purposes"). This copy will have an additional
bit set that will disable any further direct digital copies.
As to downloading copies from the web, there is a lot of work going
on to develop "secure" copying schemes that ensure the copyright
owners get paid for their intellectual property. There were recent
news articles about a hack that defeated the anti-copy protection
of DVD, and the legal manipulations to remove this software from
the web.
Most CD players can not recognize CD-RW's. The problem is that
a CD-RW reflects less of the laser beam than a CD-R or
manufactured CD. Consequently, there isn't enough returned signal
for the pickup to detect. Of course, new CD players could be
designed with enough margin to read CD-RW's.
Lloyd Piper
mif wrote in message <09920fb9...@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com>...
Wayne Reimer
>
> Isn't there some sort of copyright issue here? How can artists and
> performers make money if I can make a pristine-perfect copy of a CD I
> borrow from the library or my neighbor? Isn't it only a matter of time
> before whole CDs can be downloaded on the web and copied onto
> end-users' CDs for free?
>
I thought artists were supposed to be poor and starving or they were no
good. Maybe it's time that the performers just get paid for regular
live performances, and if it gets recorded and distributed only the
folks who do that work earn from it.
Besides, don't you think the folks who make the CDWR machines want your
money, too, and richly deserve it?
:-)
wr
Tony Movshon
jkst...@seidata.com (James K. Stevenson) writes:
> Now I would like to know when some company will get smart and make a
> simple portable CD player that takes CDWR's as well as regular and
> "finailized" CDR's. It is just a matter of programming the player to
> recognize the CDWR as I understand it. If I am misinformed, I await
> chastisement. However, I know several CD collectors would prefer to be
> able to erase a CD once we became thoroughly sick of hearing it with our
> portable CD players.
It's not likely to be cost-effective. CD-R blanks are sufficiently cheap
that they're basically throwaway items. CD-RWs are substantially more
expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
loss. Computer data can be worked around that problem, but I would guess
that a CD-RW might not be useful for more than a few rewritings as an
audio CD.
--
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
Darren Moulding
James K. Stevenson <jkst...@seidata.com> wrote in message
news:jksteven-120...@cvx-dial382.seidata.com...
> Now I would like to know when some company will get smart and make a
> simple portable CD player that takes CDWR's as well as regular and
> "finailized" CDR's.
Try this link.
Not exactly what you want, but in some ways perhaps even better.
Cheers,
Darren.
Norman Schwartz
Lloyd Piper <lpi...@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:U%af4.167$b3....@news1.iquest.net...
> I hope this is not considered "off-topic", but here is my
answer
> to the poster:
>
> Yes, there are copyright issues. That's why stand-alone CD
> recorders require special blank CD-R's. Audio-only CD-R's
> cost more (in the USA at least) than Computer CD-R's due
to a
> copyright fee that is imposed on the purchase price of the
blank CD.
> Computer CD-R's will typically not be recognized by the
stand-alone
> CD Recorder. Computer CD-Recorders are not subject to the
> copyright tax.
For $150 more you can buy a "semi-professional" stand-alone
cd-recorder, such as the Marantz 630 which uses computer
blanks and has no copy code restrictions. Its been said over
and over, nearly everywhere, that the primary reason for the
increased cost of "audio-cdrs" is their lower demand and
therefore the cost/profit difference for their
production.The royalty fee collected is on the order of 15
cents per disc.
Norman
Peter
Tony Movshon wrote:
> CD-RWs are substantially more
> expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
> more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
> loss.
I thought that CD-RW's can be rewritten hundreds of times without data loss.
Have some new findings come out now, that the usage of CD-RWs is severely
limited?
I would be most grateful for very specific information regarding this matter.
Thanks a lot for your consideration.
Joe Salerno
ago for $3.50, quite a drop from when they first came out and were $20 or
more each.
--
Joe Salerno-A Battery is Always on Charge!
Video Production & Post Production
PO Box 273405 - Houston TX 77277-3405
http://joe.salerno.com
Fax: 603-415-7616
Tony Movshon <to...@cns.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:zMdf4.1$si...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
> > simple portable CD player that takes CDWR's as well as regular and
> > recognize the CDWR as I understand it. If I am misinformed, I await
> > chastisement. However, I know several CD collectors would prefer to be
> > able to erase a CD once we became thoroughly sick of hearing it with our
> > portable CD players.
>
> It's not likely to be cost-effective. CD-R blanks are sufficiently cheap
> expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
> more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
Tony Movshon
Peter <p_ul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> Tony Movshon wrote:
> > CD-RWs are substantially more
> > expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
> > more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
> > loss.
>
>
> Have some new findings come out now, that the usage of CD-RWs is severely
> limited?
>
> I would be most grateful for very specific information regarding this matter.
My understanding of this is limited to what I've been told by one of our
very reliable technicians. In addition to the obvious problem that
CD-RWs cannot generally be read on CD players or many existing CD-ROM
drives, he tells me that the incidence of data loss in his experience
and based on what he has heard from others is much higher than claimed.
Data loss on the 4th or 5th rewrite is not uncommon, and what is worse
is that the data loss is not evident to the burner when the disk is
being written. These are losses that rendered data CDs worthless; audio
disks lack the error-correction capacities of data disks, and might be
more affected.
Note that this is not a comprehensive account, but this guy has been
100% reliable in the past and I tend to believe him.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Carter@marcopolo26.freeserve.co.uk John Carter
and yes there is an Easter Bunny.
John Carter Barsoom
Peter wrote in message <387E7A9D...@ix.netcom.com>...
>
>
>Tony Movshon wrote:
>
>> CD-RWs are substantially more
>> expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
>> more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
>> loss.
>
>I thought that CD-RW's can be rewritten hundreds of times without data
loss.
>
>Have some new findings come out now, that the usage of CD-RWs is severely
>limited?
>
>I would be most grateful for very specific information regarding this
matter.
>
Norman Schwartz
>
> Peter <p_ul...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> > Tony Movshon wrote:
> > > CD-RWs are substantially more
> > > expensive, when you consider that after you've written and erased them
> > > more than a handful of times you usually start to get substantial data
> > > loss.
> >
> > I thought that CD-RW's can be rewritten hundreds of times without data loss.
> >
> > Have some new findings come out now, that the usage of CD-RWs is severely
> > limited?
> >
> > I would be most grateful for very specific information regarding this matter.
>
> very reliable technicians. In addition to the obvious problem that
> CD-RWs cannot generally be read on CD players or many existing CD-ROM
> drives, he tells me that the incidence of data loss in his experience
> and based on what he has heard from others is much higher than claimed.
> Data loss on the 4th or 5th rewrite is not uncommon, and what is worse
> is that the data loss is not evident to the burner when the disk is
> being written. These are losses that rendered data CDs worthless; audio
> disks lack the error-correction capacities of data disks, and might be
> more affected.
>
> Note that this is not a comprehensive account, but this guy has been
> 100% reliable in the past and I tend to believe him.
True of different brands of CD-RW, "consumer audio" as well as computer CD-RW, computer and stand-alone
recorder burned CD-RW, error correction capacities specifically targeted?
I've re-rewritten several brands of CD-RW (both consumer audio and computer blanks) many more than 5x on
*stand-alone recorders* without any problems.
Norman