Abendroth on Arlecchino
Marc Perman
cutout at Tower today, Sibelius 2/Brahms 3. I hadn't heard these
before, and the more I hear Abendroth the more convinced I am of his
greatness. Both performances are superb, the Sibelius being a
particularly ardent reading, and the sound is excellent. What other
worthwhile Abendroth does this pirate label offer?
TIA,
Marc Perman
Simon Roberts
: I picked up Vol. X of Arlecchino's "The Art of Hermann Abendroth" as a
I don't think I've been disappointed by anything of his that I've heard,
here or elsewhere (there are many excellent Abendroth releases on
Tahra also, plus a good M&A two disc set; Berlin Classics often overlap
with Arlecchino, and aren't always better qua transfer quality). They have
several each of Brahms 1 and Beethoven 9 (marginally the best Brahms 1 is
the live one on Tahra, though), and it's possible to assemble a complete
Brahms set on Arlecchino. His Mozart and Haydn are worth acquiring, as
are his Bruckner 5 (I prefer the Arlecchino transfer to the Berlin
Classics), Johann Strauss, various concerto accompaniments (Oistrakh in
Beethoven and Brahms, Hoelscher and Tortelier respectively in the Dvorak
and Schumann cello concertos. I'm glad you're impressed by him too; I
took a gamble on a Tahra set a few years ago (I had never heard of him
until then) and became an instant convert; too bad he's not better known.
Simon
Vadim Batitsky
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
>there are many excellent Abendroth releases on
> Tahra also, plus a good M&A two disc set; Berlin Classics often
overlap
> with Arlecchino, and aren't always better qua transfer quality).
> are his Bruckner 5 (I prefer the Arlecchino transfer to the Berlin
> Classics
From the Sofronitsky issues on Arlecchino, I thought that they do not
use master tapes, but simply transfer a previously issued LP onto CD
(with LP pops and clicks - often in stereo on a mono recording -
providing evidence). Is the case different with Abendroth's wartime
Haydn and Mozart? I know that Haydn #96 and Mozart #29 (1945) are on a
2cd Tahra, and I wonder if it is worth the extra money for the
difference in sound quality (if any). (I want these two recordings
badly.)
What is most frustrating is that sometimes a straight LP transfer is
better than a too computerized transfer from masters, as is the case of
comparing Sofronitsky's recording of Mozart K475 (1960) on Arlecchino
to that on BMG set. What should I do?
Vadim
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Simon Roberts
: From the Sofronitsky issues on Arlecchino, I thought that they do not
: use master tapes, but simply transfer a previously issued LP onto CD
: (with LP pops and clicks - often in stereo on a mono recording -
: providing evidence). Is the case different with Abendroth's wartime
: Haydn and Mozart? I know that Haydn #96 and Mozart #29 (1945) are on a
: 2cd Tahra, and I wonder if it is worth the extra money for the
: difference in sound quality (if any). (I want these two recordings
: badly.)
I only have the Tahra transfers; haven't heard the Arlecchino.
: What is most frustrating is that sometimes a straight LP transfer is
: better than a too computerized transfer from masters, as is the case of
: comparing Sofronitsky's recording of Mozart K475 (1960) on Arlecchino
: to that on BMG set. What should I do?
Impossible to predict with Arlecchino. Some of their transfers don't have
LP noise on them; whether this means they've acquired access to masters or
become adept at removing extraneous noises I can't say. I prefer some
Arlecchino Abendroth transfers to the Berlin Classics equivalents, some of
which seem to add reverberation and fake stereo to no good effect,
sometimes along with some distortion (e.g. Bruckner 5 and Brahms 1). I
recently bought the Arlecchino Sofronitsky Chopin disc, only to discover
that its contents are the same as the first disc of Philips Great Pianists
set (which I already had), more or less tonally the same but with rather a
lot of LP noise. So it goes.
In other words, I think you have to ask for comments disc by disc and hope
someone out there's been able to compare.
Simon
Marc Perman
>Marc Perman (per...@mindspring.com) wrote:
>: I picked up Vol. X of Arlecchino's "The Art of Hermann Abendroth" as a
>: cutout at Tower today, Sibelius 2/Brahms 3. I hadn't heard these
>: before, and the more I hear Abendroth the more convinced I am of his
>: greatness. Both performances are superb, the Sibelius being a
>: particularly ardent reading, and the sound is excellent. What other
>: worthwhile Abendroth does this pirate label offer?
>
>I don't think I've been disappointed by anything of his that I've heard,
>here or elsewhere (there are many excellent Abendroth releases on
>Tahra also, plus a good M&A two disc set; Berlin Classics often overlap
>with Arlecchino, and aren't always better qua transfer quality). They have
>several each of Brahms 1 and Beethoven 9 (marginally the best Brahms 1 is
>the live one on Tahra, though), and it's possible to assemble a complete
>Brahms set on Arlecchino. His Mozart and Haydn are worth acquiring, as
>are his Bruckner 5 (I prefer the Arlecchino transfer to the Berlin
>Classics), Johann Strauss, various concerto accompaniments (Oistrakh in
>Beethoven and Brahms, Hoelscher and Tortelier respectively in the Dvorak
>and Schumann cello concertos. I'm glad you're impressed by him too; I
>took a gamble on a Tahra set a few years ago (I had never heard of him
>until then) and became an instant convert; too bad he's not better known.
A particular bargain and good introduction to Abendroth is the 5 CD
set on Berlin Classics which Berkshire has had for $19.99. The two 2
CD Tahra sets have been at Tower's NY clearance store for months.
Marc Perman
JRsnfld
In addition to the Brahms, I'd recommend the Tchaikovsky 4/Violin Concerto and
the Schumann 1 and 4 on Arlecchino. The performances are great, and the sound
good enough to prove it. The Pathetique doesn't seem to be quite as fine a
performance, but it's worth hearing.
I really started seeking Abendroth after hearing his Bruckner--the 7 and 8 on
Tahra are great and so are the 4 and 9 on Berlin Classics. I also loved his
Strauss tone poems on Tahra (sound is not so great, but so what?)--this disc is
probably kicking around in Tower clearance bins.
--Jeff
Marc Perman
Are there pitch problems with the Tahra Bruckner 7 or 8? I seem to
recall reading that somewhere.
Marc Perman
Marc Perman
>His Meistersinger hasn't turned up somewhere in the middle of all these
>Abendroth bargains, has it?
Not when I was there.
Marc Perman
JRsnfld
recall reading that somewhere.
Marc Perman >>
I have a very selective memory of a Fanfare review about another Abendroth
Bruckner recording with this problem. Unfortunately, the fact is, the Bruckner
8 is a half-step flat.
The 7th, however, is a little more elusive. Best as I can tell (with faulty
ears and a pitch meter) is that it tends to be about 20 cents sharper than
Karajan/VPO, which in turn seems pretty close to standard.
If you get this used (as I did) or on cut-out, then you have a sort-of
acceptably pitched, live Bruckner 7 that is outstanding. Well worth the price.
And if you have perfect pitch, you get the greatest performance ever of
Bruckner's beloved B-Minor symphony--a treat for the chronically depressed.
Take it down a whole step more, and you finally have a great twin for Mahler 6!
--Jeff
Carl S. Bjerre
recording of the Prague Symphony (appearing in a 2-disc Berlin Classics set
devoted to his Mozart, which I haven't had the heart to investigate further
yet). Every movement seemed hastily dispatched, without any lingering over
savory moments or bringing out of important details. Anyone else
disappointed in him in this repertoire, or alternatively, what was I
missing?
Carl Bjerre
Vadim Batitsky
It seems that after the War, Abendroth wasn't the conductor he was with
Gewandhaus. Certainly the orchestras he worked with were far inferior in
sound and excecution. But it also seems that he just didn't care that much
about the music he conducted. Just compare his wartime Mozart #29 with any
post war Mozart and the difference is absolutely stunning.
Vadim.
Simon Roberts
: It seems that after the War, Abendroth wasn't the conductor he was with
: Gewandhaus. Certainly the orchestras he worked with were far inferior in
: sound and excecution. But it also seems that he just didn't care that much
: about the music he conducted. Just compare his wartime Mozart #29 with any
: post war Mozart and the difference is absolutely stunning.
That may be true of that particular piece, but I much prefer, say,
his post-war Brahms 1s, especially the one on Tahra, to his pre-war
studio recording. I hear no evidence whatever that "he just didn't
care that much about the music he conducted." Does that mean much more
than you don't care that much for his post-WWII performances?
Simon
Marc Perman
I've been waxing lyrically these days about Abendroth, and I *only*
know the post-war recordings. I just picked up another cutout
Arlecchino, with the Brahms 2 and 4 from Leipzig. These too are very
fine, with good sound.
Marc Perman
Vadim Batitsky
per...@mindspring.com wrote:
> I've been waxing lyrically these days about Abendroth, and I *only*
> know the post-war recordings. I just picked up another cutout
> Arlecchino, with the Brahms 2 and 4 from Leipzig. These too are very
> fine, with good sound.
I had a few of his Berlin Classics CDs and for a while couldn't see
what was allegedly so great about his music making. It was all fluid,
correct and occasionally inspired, but then plenty of others did pretty
much the same level work.
Then I heard the 2cd Tahra set of 1944-45 brodcasts and was simply
blown away within seconds: the sonority, the passion, the intensity -
all this was in a class of its own. Very much along the line WF's
wartime recordings. As a result, I had no choice but to think that
Abendroth's post-war life under Communists (something I know all too
well, regrettably) wasn't too stimulating for his conducting (not to
mention that there seem to be no post-war recordings of him with
Gewandhaus - the premiere orchestra of Europe for a long time. Walter,
in fact, wanted this orchestra more than any other, period. Perhaps the
authorities simply didn't let him near his old band anymore - that I
really don't know for a fact.)
JRsnfld
Abendroth's post-war life under Communists (something I know all too
well, regrettably) wasn't too stimulating for his conducting >>
This may be true, but most of my Abendroth favorites are post-war: Tahra's
Strauss tone poems and Bruckner 7 and 8, Bruckner 4 on Berlin Classics, and on
Arlecchino, the Brahms 2 and 4, Schumann 1 and 4, Tchaikovsky 4 etc. All of the
intensity and none of the rote efficiency you seem to notice.
--Jeff
Michael Weston
: This may be true, but most of my Abendroth favorites are post-war: Tahra's
: Strauss tone poems
RRRRR! PAssed this one in the cutout bins this evening. And there was
only one. Have you heard the Beethoven set on Tahra?
michael
JRsnfld
only one. Have you heard the Beethoven set on Tahra? >>
My arms were full of CDs, so I passed on it. I'll probably regret it soon.
--Jeff
jeroen smits
a real bargain as well on Berlin Classics. His 9 is one of my absolute
favourites, together with Furtwängler's and Mengelberg's. In fact, the choice
of tempi in the first movement are very close to F's, but the sound is a bit
more raw.
How lucky this piece is in it's recordings!. There are so many works I don't
even know one satisfying recording of!
Jeroen Smits
Marc Perman wrote:
> si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote:
>
> >Marc Perman (per...@mindspring.com) wrote:
> >: I picked up Vol. X of Arlecchino's "The Art of Hermann Abendroth" as a
> >: cutout at Tower today, Sibelius 2/Brahms 3. I hadn't heard these
> >: before, and the more I hear Abendroth the more convinced I am of his
> >: greatness. Both performances are superb, the Sibelius being a
> >: particularly ardent reading, and the sound is excellent. What other
> >: worthwhile Abendroth does this pirate label offer?
> >
Simon Roberts
: JRsnfld (jrs...@aol.com) wrote:
: : This may be true, but most of my Abendroth favorites are post-war: Tahra's
: : Strauss tone poems
: RRRRR! PAssed this one in the cutout bins this evening. And there was
: only one. Have you heard the Beethoven set on Tahra?
Not to be missed; a paticularly thrilling, old-fashioned, romantic Eroica
is enough to make the box desirable.
Simon
Brendan R. Wehrung
The Abendroth thread got me asking...
jeroen smits (sm...@jur.uva.nl) writes:
> His Schubert 8 and 9 haven't been mentioned specifically yet. They superb, and
> a real bargain as well on Berlin Classics. His 9 is one of my absolute
> favourites, together with Furtwängler's and Mengelberg's. In fact, the choice
> of tempi in the first movement are very close to F's, but the sound is a bit
> more raw.
> How lucky this piece is in it's recordings!. There are so many works I don't
> even know one satisfying recording of!
>
> Jeroen Smits
k
...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying recording.
Nominations?
Brendan
samir ghiocel golescu
On 8 Nov 1999, Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
> Nominations?
Found satisfying but not *ideal* recordings of:
[With the risk of plagiarizing Mr. Andy Evans] Chopin's Third Sonata.
Also:
Mozart's G Minor Symphony
Bach's Goldberg Variations
Beethoven's Appassionata
Tchaikovsky's Second Piano Concerto
Tchaikovsky's First Piano Concerto
Chopin's Polonaise-Fantasy
Bach's Johannes Passion
Janacek's Piano Sonata
N.B. For all this works, and for others as well, I prefer saying that they
did not find the ideal interpreter, not that the "music itself" has flaws.
regards,
SG
JRsnfld
is enough to make the box desirable.
Simon>>
Sounds like a good shelf-partner for the Kabasta and Mengelberg Eroicas.
--Jeff
Thomas Deas
Brendan R. Wehrung <ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:807bge$9...@freenet-news.carleton.ca...
>
> The Abendroth thread got me asking...
>
> Nominations?
Beethoven Missa Solemnis
Chloe Pajerek
Hmmm... the "Missa" certainly belongs in the group of works
which are exceptionally difficult to realize, and which are
highly unlikely to receive a "definitive" recording. I do believe,
however, that the 1959 Bernstein/NYPO recording (along with
a couple others that Simon Roberts can name) has some real
merit.
- Chloe
Simon Roberts
: ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying recording.
: Nominations?
This is perhaps too obvious to be worth mentioning, but Wagner's Ring
comes immediately to mind (at the head of what is probably a rather long
list).
Simon
van...@my-deja.com
#2--Gardiner
Regards
In article <80adgi$a4e$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>,
ch...@qpc.com (Chloe Pajerek) wrote:
> In article <807qf7$7n$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, tj...@spam.ac.uk
writes:
>
> > Brendan R. Wehrung <ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> > news:807bge$9...@freenet-news.carleton.ca...
> > >
> > > The Abendroth thread got me asking...
> > > ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
recording.
> > >
> > > Nominations?
> >
> > Beethoven Missa Solemnis
>
> Hmmm... the "Missa" certainly belongs in the group of works
> which are exceptionally difficult to realize, and which are
> highly unlikely to receive a "definitive" recording. I do believe,
> however, that the 1959 Bernstein/NYPO recording (along with
> a couple others that Simon Roberts can name) has some real
> merit.
>
> - Chloe
>
David S. Phipps
recording.
Dvorak's Ninth
R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help any)
Respighi's Feste Romane
Tchaikovsky's 5th
Mahler's 1st
Brahms 1st (sym)
GilLamont
>>
>> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
>recording.
>
Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress. Haven't heard a recording yet that
satisfactorily catches the humor of the breakfast scene between Babar and Tom.
Gil Lamont
paulgo...@my-deja.com
"David S. Phipps" <dph...@gte.net> wrote:
> Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> >
> > : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
> recording.
>
> R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help
any)
> Respighi's Feste Romane
> Tchaikovsky's 5th
> Mahler's 1st
> Brahms 1st (sym)
You must be a very fastidious listener. You don't find Reiner's 1954
Zarathustra or the ones by Kempe and Koussevitsky satisfying? The
Brahms 1sts of Mengelberg, Furtwaengler, Toscanini, Horenstein,
Sanderling, Weingartner? The Mahler 1sts of Haitink, Mitropoulos,
Kubelik, Walter, Solti/LSO? The Tchaik 5s of Koussevitsky, Mengelberg,
Monteux, Szell, Markevitch, Mravinsky?
Paul Goldstein
Chloe Pajerek
> Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> >
> > : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
> recording.
>
> Dvorak's Ninth
Kertesz
> R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help any)
Wow.
> Respighi's Feste Romane
Maazel/Cleveland (on Decca/London LP)
- Chloe
Matthew B. Tepper
presentation of the stones-to-bread machine is never convincing. Yet I
still love about 75% of the entire work, which is more than enough.
GilLamont wrote:
>
> >Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> >>
> >> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
> >recording.
> >
>
> Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress. Haven't heard a recording yet that
> satisfactorily catches the humor of the breakfast scene between Babar
> and Tom.
>
> Gil Lamont
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Premise Checker
: On 8 Nov 1999, Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
:> Nominations?
: Found satisfying but not *ideal* recordings of:
: [With the risk of plagiarizing Mr. Andy Evans] Chopin's Third Sonata.
Percy Grainger is the only one to make me wonder whether this work might
actually be worthwhile.
: Mozart's G Minor Symphony
Klemperer's second stereo
: Bach's Goldberg Variations
Both Goulds and Kempff
: Beethoven's Appassionata
Gould, Backhaus mono, Schnabel
: Tchaikovsky's Second Piano Concerto
don't know the work well enough to say
: Tchaikovsky's First Piano Concerto
Conrad Hansen, Willem Mengelberg: stupendous
: Chopin's Polonaise-Fantasy
dislkie Chopin, so no opinion
: Bach's Johannes Passion
Friz Werner, cond., Helmut KREBS, tenor and Evangelist. Satisfying in
every way.
: Janacek's Piano Sonata
Don't know the work well enough to say. None of my favorites recorded it.
Premise Checker
: Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
:>
:> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
: recording.
: Dvorak's Ninth
Mengelberg, Stokowski 1925 (sounds like a tuba concerto, since tubas were
still used as replacements for bass violins as in the acoustic era)
: R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help any)
boring music. no opinion.
: Respighi's Feste Romane
ditto
: Tchaikovsky's 5th
Mravinsky live in Vienna; Mengelberg live
: Mahler's 1st
Hans Rosbaud, Dresden State. On a Canadian cassette label called Encore.
Far, far better than the one with his home orchestra that is floating
around. Major miracle. Will have to make some CDs of this to distribute
around, now that I have a CD burner
: Brahms 1st (sym)
Mengelberg in every way!
Owen J Hartnett
gill...@aol.com (GilLamont) wrote:
> >Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> >>
> >> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
> >recording.
> >
Shostakovich 7th symphony. Ashkenazy's is probably the closest (great
finale), but I've heard much more exciting first movements. Bernstein's
CSO is too slow, Jarvi's is too fast, Kondrashin's has no bass, etc. As
I've mentioned many times before, I really liked the small clip of
Gergiev's performance of this piece on "The War Symphonies" but alas I
don't think it's going to be produced on CD.
-Owen
Donald Rice
"Matthew B. Tepper" wrote:
>
> Actually, I find the piece severely flawed, chiefly because the
> presentation of the stones-to-bread machine is never convincing. Yet I
> still love about 75% of the entire work, which is more than enough.
>
<snip>
Haven't you heard about Coleridge's "willful suspension of disbelief?"
The stones to bread scene is so preposterous you HAVE to "make believe"
to even sit through it. Nevertheless one of my absolute favorite pieces
of music. I saw the production at the SFO opera designed by David
Hockney. Absolutely spectacular. Didn't have to make believe too much
because the sets put you in that frame of mind.
Don
Jaime Jean
David S. Phipps <dph...@gte.net> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
RL8W3.1016$QY4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> >
> > : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
> recording.
>
> Dvorak's Ninth
> R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help any)
jeroen smits
Queen and Dido come to mind: numerous recordings, not one satisfying. Or how
about l'Incoronazione di Poppea? Elektra?
And these are just a few of opera's only.
Aaagh, you're right, the list would be endless.
Jeroen Smits
Simon Roberts wrote:
> Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>
> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying recording.
>
Will Flor
>David S. Phipps <dph...@gte.net> wrote:
>: Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>:>
>:> : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
>: recording.
>
>Mengelberg, Stokowski 1925 (sounds like a tuba concerto, since tubas were
>still used as replacements for bass violins as in the acoustic era)
I haven't heard that recording, but I enjoy Macal's 1994 recording on Koss
Classics.
-Will Flor wi...@will-flor.spambloque.com
Appropriately adjust my return address to reach me via e-mail.
Matthew B. Tepper
to have iterated as follows...
I'm of the feeling that disbelief can be suspended, just not hanged from
the neck until dead.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
>
>The Abendroth thread got me asking...
>
>> His Schubert 8 and 9 haven't been mentioned specifically yet. They superb, and
>> a real bargain as well on Berlin Classics. His 9 is one of my absolute
>> favourites, together with Furtwängler's and Mengelberg's. In fact, the choice
>> of tempi in the first movement are very close to F's, but the sound is a bit
>> more raw.
>> How lucky this piece is in it's recordings!. There are so many works I don't
>> even know one satisfying recording of!
>>
>> Jeroen Smits
>k
>
WTC, certainly. I have lost the count of the number of WTC recordings I
own, but none of them are completely satisfactory.
Tord
David Grayshan
David.
Will Flor wrote:
> (Snip)
>
> I haven't heard that recording, but I enjoy Macal's 1994 recording on Koss
> Classics.
(Snip)
David S. Phipps
<paulgo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:80cqhd$ipd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <RL8W3.1016$QY4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> "David S. Phipps" <dph...@gte.net> wrote:
> > Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> > >
> > recording.
> >
> > Dvorak's Ninth
> > R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help
> any)
> > Respighi's Feste Romane
> > Tchaikovsky's 5th
> > Mahler's 1st
> > Brahms 1st (sym)
>
> Zarathustra or the ones by Kempe and Koussevitsky satisfying? The
> Brahms 1sts of Mengelberg, Furtwaengler, Toscanini, Horenstein,
> Sanderling, Weingartner? The Mahler 1sts of Haitink, Mitropoulos,
> Kubelik, Walter, Solti/LSO? The Tchaik 5s of Koussevitsky, Mengelberg,
> Monteux, Szell, Markevitch, Mravinsky?
Well, I haven't heard *all* of the above, so I can't answer with a
resounding "NOPE!". However, one thing I have a pretty strong preference on
(and this is purely personal on my part and a lot of people very justifiably
disagree with me on this) is modern sound. Not necessarily digital, mind
you, but an old mono recording is simply difficult for me to enjoy beyond
recognizing a clearly outstanding performance. And one might say at this
point, "but isn't that the whole point?" No, not really. I like to
"experience", for lack of a better word, the piece, as if I'm inside of it,
sort of. I guess maybe it's kind of like what Bernstein said about his
supposedly best performances as a conductor, where he would "wake up" at the
end and realize that he was only Bernstein and not the composer. It's
difficult to experience the piece when you're constantly being reminded of
the performance by older sound.
Again, many people will not agree with this philosophy and I certainly do
not blame them or have any problem with that. It's simply my own
preference.
As far as being a "ver fastidious listener", yes, you're right. I am.
--
David Phipps
Hobbs, NM, USA
Dimitri Dover
> : Beethoven's Appassionata
> Gould, [snip]
!!!
>
> : Tchaikovsky's Second Piano Concerto
> don't know the work well enough to say
Try the Zhukov/Rozhdestvensky recording on Melodiya.
It milks this piece for all it's worth.
Dimitri
David Standifer
the cut or the complete Tchaik PC2?
-David
Dimitri Dover
Dimitri
Brett Langston
from David Standifer <agent...@mail.utexas.edu> contains these words:
> I wrote dk about this, but he cruelly shunned me. Does Zhukov perform
> the cut or the complete Tchaik PC2?
It's complete (fortunately!).
Brett Langston
The Tchaikovsky Web-Site
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/blangston/pitch/
John Gavin
including Moravec, Sokolov, Friere, yet none quite captures their
essence completely!!
Marc Perman
Reiner's Zarathustra is extraordinary (Kempe's is nearly as good), and
both sound quite modern (the Reiner is an early stereo demonstration
disc, while the Kempe is an example of 1970s analog at its best).
Mravinsky's 1960 Tchaikovsky 5th is one of that conductor's
best-recorded performances - it was made by DG in London. It's
perfectly good stereo sound.
The Bernstein/DG, Haitink, and Kubelik Mahler 1s are all hugely
recommendable recordings with very good sound (though the brass in the
Kubelik sometimes sound slightly, oddly Spanish to me).
You're not likely to find better combinations of performances and
sound than these (with the caveat about the Kubelik).
Marc Perman
David S. Phipps
Marc Perman <per...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:382cd988...@news.mindspring.com...
> You're not likely to find better combinations of performances and
> sound than these.
You're right of course, these are all excellent recordings by any standard
and I won't even pretend to deny that because I would be a fool. Something
else that I should have mentioned in my previous post is that I have some
pretty specific ideas on how I want these pieces to go and unfortunately I'm
a pretty stubborn person. Just ask my band at school!
While I can point you to at least one recording that demonstrates each of my
ideas on the pieces in question, I can't find one that incorporates them
all. And now everyone is thinking "that's because those conductors aren't
David Phipps!". As thankful as we should be that they're not David Phipps,
I have realized a long time ago that I'm probably not ever going to find a
recording of any of those pieces that is "just right". I'll just have to
settle for "excellent" and occasionally disagree with the interpretation.
But that's what makes music interesting, isn't it?
Marc Perman
Or, you can acquire many versions of these works and become an rmcr
"frequent flyer," with free upgrades. Simon Roberts never has to fly
coach any more.
Marc Perman
David S. Phipps
> Or, you can acquire many versions of these works and become an rmcr
> "frequent flyer," with free upgrades. Simon Roberts never has to fly
> coach any more.
Actually, what I have been doing in some cases, such as the Dvorak 9th is
using a CD writer drive to make a "hybrid" version, if you will. The only
catch is that you have to be able to find at least whole mvts, or sections
with a break on both ends of it. My favorite CD of the Dvorak 9th, for
instance is:
1st mvt: Solti/Chicago
2nd mvt: Giulini/Chicago
3rd mvt: Solti/Chicago
4th mvt: Kubelik/Berlin
I'm actually getting ready to do the same thing with Also Sprach
Zarathustra. It'll involve excerpts from (in no particular order)
Karajan/Berlin (DDD), Karajan/Berlin (70's), Solti/Chicago, Reiner/Chicago,
and Jarvi/Scottish.
As long as I don't give or sell this hybrid CD to anyone else, I don't think
there's anything illegal about this, because I already purchased to right to
listen to each of these recordings at will and I'm simply eliminating the
change between sections/movements.
Another thing I did once that was fun to hear the result on was to insert
the 1st mvt repeat into Karajan's DDD recording of Brahms One. I used a
digital sound editing program (Syntrillium's "Cool Edit") and then wrote the
new track along with the other mvts onto a blank CD and now presto! Karajan
now takes the repeat whether he wanted to or not!
Deryk Barker
: Brendan R. Wehrung (ck...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
: >
: > : ...about works you feel have yet to receive a really satisfying
: recording.
Are we allowed to dissent? Because if so...
: Dvorak's Ninth
: R. Strauss' Also Sprach Zarathustra (Boulez will probably not help any)
: Respighi's Feste Romane
: Tchaikovsky's 5th
: Mahler's 1st
Kubelik's 1975 Originals - not a commercial recording, admittedly.
: Brahms 1st (sym)
LSO/Horenstein on Chesky. Great performance, great sound.
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood|
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |
Deryk Barker
: news:382d8139...@news.mindspring.com...
: > Or, you can acquire many versions of these works and become an rmcr
: > "frequent flyer," with free upgrades. Simon Roberts never has to fly
: > coach any more.
:
: Actually, what I have been doing in some cases, such as the Dvorak 9th is
: using a CD writer drive to make a "hybrid" version, if you will. The only
: catch is that you have to be able to find at least whole mvts, or sections
: with a break on both ends of it. My favorite CD of the Dvorak 9th, for
: instance is:
Glenn Gould's ideal listener lives!