OT: How British colonialism killed 100 million Indians in 40 years

[Dan Koren]

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india

Who would have thought?

dk

[gggg gggg]

https://groups.google.com/u/1/g/soc.history.early-modern/c/57AcWKQLowY

[gggg gggg]

Horrors of an altogether different sore (but horrors nonetheless) are described in the 2023 article "The Persistent Horror of Congo’s Exploitation" which begins:

- “The horror! The horror!” The enormities the colonials inflicted on the Congolese are condensed in those dying words of Kurtz, the depraved, power-mad ivory-procurer of Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness. It was ivory then; it is cobalt now. But exploitation and slavery continue to this day in the benighted Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), long after most former colonies have prospered in freedom.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/03/the_persistent_horror_of_congos_exploitation.html

[gggg gggg]

From colonization to globalization:

https://countercurrents.org/2022/07/how-the-policies-of-globalization-exploited-the-resources-and-economy-of-the-developing-countries/

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:31:40 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> From colonization to globalization:
>
> https://countercurrents.org/2022/07/how-the-policies-of-globalization-exploited-the-resources-and-economy-of-the-developing-countries/

Surprise, surprise! Who would have thought?

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, April 3, 2023 at 10:28:55 PM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
>
> Horrors of an altogether different sore (but horrors nonetheless)
> are described in the 2023 article "The Persistent Horror of Congo’s
> Exploitation" which begins:
>
> - “The horror! The horror!” The enormities the colonials inflicted on
> the Congolese are condensed in those dying words of Kurtz, the
> depraved, power-mad ivory-procurer of Joseph Conrad’s Heart of
> Darkness. It was ivory then; it is cobalt now. But exploitation and
> slavery continue to this day in the benighted Democratic Republic
> of the Congo (DRC), long after most former colonies have prospered
> in freedom.
>
> https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/03/the_persistent_horror_of_congos_exploitation.html

We all know the Belgians are more cruel and savage than the Brits.
It comes from their beers.

dk

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

The following 2023 article begins:

- With the world of the plundering Colonial Powers deep in the chaos of the Great Depression...

https://countercurrents.org/2023/04/wwii-holocaust-could-never-have-happened-without-american-corporations-investing-joint-venturing-with-hitlers-poor-nazi-germany-chapter-2/

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

(2023 Y. upload):

"This Man Killed 10,000,000 Africans in a few years | The Shocking Story of King Leopold II"

[Oscar]

Get a room, you two.

[Dan Koren]

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 3:38:39 PM UTC-7, Oscar wrote:
> Get a room, you two.

Get a brain surgeon.

dk

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:

Although don't the citizens of Hong Kong prefer British colonialism to what that have now?

[Dan Koren]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 10:57:25 AM UTC-7, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> >
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> >
> > Who would have thought?
>

> Although don't the citizens of Hong Kong prefer
> British colonialism to what that have now?

Why don't you go there and take a poll on the ground?

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 1:35:07 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

> ... al jazeera... it's really funny dan...
>
> Did Al Jazeera ever do an episode on
> how Muslims conquered india and
> massacred thousands of hindus? I
> doubt it, because they are about as
> self-critical as you are...

This has nothing to do with sources,
and everything to do with facts. Also
note that two wrongs do not cancel
one another or add up to one right.

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 11:07:27 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> I always knew you were a muslim at heart.

You are getting more bizarre and
more delusional day by day.

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 1:13:46 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

> Haha - not really. But you are allowed
> to believe this, just as you are allowed
> to believe that British colonialism killed 1
> 00 million indians in 40 years, because of
> "facts"...

If you believe 100M is inaccurate or
exaggerated, please provide a more
accurate number from a reliable,
verificable source. Otherwise, go
fuck yourself!

dk

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 3:39:09 AM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:

> Marc S schrieb am Montag, 29. Mai 2023 um 18:25:21 UTC+2:
> > Dan Koren schrieb am Mittwoch, 7. Dezember 2022 um 07:16:36 UTC+1:
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
> > >
> > > https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
> > >
> > > Who would have thought?
> > >

> > > dk
> > Also, interesting to note: How they take a picture of a British soldier? standing infront of a train... Neet psychological trick if done on purpose; or maybe it's just the act of the subconsciousness - in any case, it shows how deluded these people are.
> >
> > Note also the text displayed under said picture - no context given, just pure propaganda.
> >
> > Today, lieber Dan, it's not just that people deny the shoah, but they want to claim it for themselves...
> >
> > Look what a simple google search "british killed 100 million indians holocaust" brought me to:
> >
> > ""It was a holocaust, one where millions disappeared. It was a necessary holocaust in the British view because they thought the only way to win was to destroy entire populations in towns and villages. It was simple and brutal. Indians who stood in their way were killed. But its scale has been kept a secret," Misra told the Guardian."
> *To be added: Misra's casualty claims have been challenged in India and Britain. "It is very difficult to assess the extent of the reprisals simply because we cannot say for sure if some of these populations did not just leave a conflict zone rather than being killed," said Shabi Ahmad, head of the 1857 project at the Indian Council of Historical Research. "It could have been migration rather than murder that depopulated areas."
>
> Many view exaggeration rather than deceit in Misra's calculations. A British historian, Saul David, author of The Indian Mutiny, said it was valid to count the death toll but reckoned that it ran into "hundreds of thousands".
>
> "It looks like an overestimate. There were definitely famines that cost millions of lives, which were exacerbated by British ruthlessness. You don't need these figures or talk of holocausts to hammer imperialism. It has a pretty bad track record."
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/24/india.randeepramesh
> >
> > This is very good news for us Germans, as now we are not the only ones who have committed a holocaust ;) (*ofc there was such thing as the Armenian genocide, but I'm not sure if it is of the same quality - I would guess not, would have to look into it more deeply).
> >
> > So according to Al Jazeera basically: The Brits committed a holocaust on the Indians and the Israelis are doing it today with the Palestinians...
> >
> > Maybe check out the Palestinian Holocaust museum:
> >
> > "In addition to the pictures depicting the Nazi brutality against Jews in Europe, there are also images of the Palestinian Nakba (catastrophe) following the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 and the violence in Palestine since.
> >
> > On one wall, there is a picture of a scared Jewish boy holding up his hands as Nazi soldiers look on; the caption reads: “Make your final account with Hitler and the Nazi Germans, not with the Palestinians.”
> >
> > On an adjacent wall there are photos of dead children, demolished homes and women screaming during the Israeli war on Gaza in January."
> >
> > https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2009/4/30/palestines-holocaust-museum
> >
> > See how generous these Palestinians are? They do not only commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust for which Israel is responsible, but also the shoah.
> >
> > Maybe Israel could learn a bit of this and commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust in Yad Vashem? That would maybe be a step towards peace... What do you think, Dan?
> >
> > Should be no wonder, why Andy is completely brainwashed wrt Israel taking this 'news' paper seriously...

You do not run a successful colony by murdering its labour force and expropriating its resources. This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning your staff and taking all the food home and keeping it in the cellar for your own use.

Narendra Depesh Modi is a very capable prime minister, but he has some very unpleasant friends. Ask the dalits beaten or killed for allegedly eating beef or converting to Christianity, or the Muslims crowded into the slums of Mumbai or Kolkata, or even the Sikhs campaigning for their own homeland.

At this point, some Indian is going to start shouting about British Divide and Rule, even though it's 75 years since Swaraj. They will probably be shouting about British Divide and Rule Rule 500 years after Swaraj. It's a very convenient excuse. African dictators love it too.

Speaking of the Sikhs, the previous owner of the Kohinoor Diamond was a Sikh emperor in the Punjab. The diamond belongs to his descendants,and not to "India", a concept which did not exist at the time, being paradoxically a creation of the Raj.

Mr Modi is now running around the world demanding tbe repatriation of Indian antiquities from museums, and you do have to ask why? Even if successful, this isn't going to help the Bihari peasant farmer who has to leave his family behind for half the year and work as a casual labourer far, far away in order to feed his family and pay off his debts.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 12:20:16 UTC+1, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Narendra Depesh Modi is a very capable prime minister, but he has some very unpleasant friends. Ask the dalits beaten or killed for allegedly eating beef or converting to Christianity, or the Muslims crowded into the slums of Mumbai or Kolkata, or even the Sikhs campaigning for their own homeland.

> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Indeed. I have a good friend in India who things the government is vile, and I'm sure he's not alone. Modi hasn't been capable of reducing emissions - in 2022 they increased by 7.5%, more than any other country. I suppose looking at the situations in Libya and Iraq you could say a bad leader is better than anarchy, and since I know little of Indian politics I don't know who would be a better replacement. Seems to me the social culture in India is as much to blame as the leaders they have.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> its labour force and expropriating its resources.

Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.

> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> it in the cellar for your own use.

Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
outsmarting yourself.

dk

[Frank Berger]

I would think optimal colonial policy would be to abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:36:08 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 5/31/2023 2:51 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 4:20:16 AM UTC-7, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> >>
> >> You do not run a successful colony by murdering
> >> its labour force and expropriating its resources.
> >
> > Have you ever read history? If so, please explain
> > in detail how the British, the Spanish, the French,
> > the Dutch and the Portuguese ran "successful"
> > colonies. And don't forget the Belgians.
> >
> >> This is like trying to run a restaurant by poisoning
> >> your staff and taking all the food home and keeping
> >> it in the cellar for your own use.
> >
> > Cute, though not relevant. Sounds like you may be
> > outsmarting yourself.
>

> I would think optimal colonial policy would be to
> abuse the colony up to the point where they revolt.

Isn't this exactly what happened almost everywhere?

dk

[Frank Berger]

Sure.

[Frank Berger]

Did I say not?

[Andrew Clarke]

The metaphor is absolutely relevant. Colonisers invest in colonies in order to maintain them as a going concern. That is why the smash 'n' grab theory of colonial economics, often proposed on You Tube and which you and Frank seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Most colonies were successful in that they made money for those who invested in them, and provided facilities like railways, electricity, irrigation, medical services, etc. which are still there.

You might want to consider the fate of colonies after they "revolted". India is noteworthy in that it has maintained the parliamentary and constitutional arrangements set up before the Raj ended in 1947, with the exception of the bit that outlawed tne caste system. Others rapidly deteriorated into one-party states and military dictatorships, where brutality and corruption were, and are, rampant. Ask yourself: if I were an African, would I be better off in British Rhodesia or in modern Zimbabwe, essentially a one party state where the currency is worthless, and those who do not know someone in the ruling party live from hand to mouth. Are the residents of the South African townships any better off materially than they were under apartheid, let alone under British rule?

Incidentally, most British colonies did not 'revolt'. Independence movements started and negotiated with the British government for independence, which was usually achieved without bloodshed.

And before you start banging on about colonial exploitation you might want to look at the living conditions of share croppers, tenant farmers and coal miners in the Deep South, white and black, post-Reconstruction. It's been said that the slaves ate better than an Arkansas hill farmer in the 1880s, the latter occupying a two-roomed shack, subsisting on a diet of corn and salt pork and liable to catch typhoid, dysentry, yellow fever and pellagra. And it wasn't even a colony.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

Correction: "smash and grab theory ... is so hopelessly wrong."

[Frank Berger]

I am not an expert on the economics of colonialism. Don forget that all economics has to say is if the conditions are "this", then economic theory suggest "that."
So I would say that the better defined, or more secure, the property right (of the colonialist over the colony), the more sensible is most of what you say. The more uncertain is the property right (which could be for any number of reasons) the more likely "smash and grab" will be applicable. The reason world fisheries are in decline is because there is no clearly defined, enforceable property right to the fish.

All this, of course, overlooks whether the colonizer has the moral or legal right to colonize. Same with the slave owner. Bound up with this kind of analysis is the value of individual freedom. It's possible slavery or serfdom or whatever can make you better off economically but with a trade-off of your lost freedom of choice, movement, etc.

If we allow that today's African-Americans are better off than they would be if their ancestors and not been brutally enslaved, maybe they should be paying reparations to the Whites or at lest the descendants of slave owners and slave traders. If I believed in reparations at all, that is, which I don't.

[Andrew Clarke]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 9:43:42 PM UTC+10, Marc S wrote:

> Look, Andrew the Ape, as opposed to you I get that noone is perfect and that the Brits can be criticised for some things they did in India; this was not my point at all Mr Monkeybrain.
>
> My point was: That the Al Jazeera article is pure propaganda and that no reputable historian believes that the brits killed 100 million indians in 40 years... - no need to be a historian btw, you just need to be able to reflect critically which you obviously have problems with.
>
> I am not going to waste my time addressing the rest of your post - from what I've seen it is all completely besides any point I made; I'll rather enjoy my pizza - thanks.
> Karl Marx: "The question is not whether the English had a right to conquer India, but whether we are to prefer India conquered by the Turk, by the Persian, by the Russian, to India conquered by the Briton."

Oh you *Mensch* you! Watching Hurwitz's latest with a can of coke in one hand and a slice of pizza in the other. And at your age!

But do spare a thought for the poor old delivery boy. Running up five flights of stairs in a Plattenbau to deliver your order must be exhausting work.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

If not all colonizers are equal, could that have something to do with this?

(2023 Y. upload):

"Why Haiti Is So Dangerous And The Dominican Republic Is Thriving"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

Does colonization eventually lead to THIS?

(2023 Y. upload):

"How the USA Colonized the USA"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"How Britain Used India To Replace Slave Labor"

[Andrew Clarke]

What seems to have been going on in places like Alabama is a kind of intra-national wage slavery. The miners were charged for the cost of transporting the coal to the surface. They lived in company houses. They bought at the company store. They were paid a pittance per ton, and this was cut when there was a slump in the market. If they struck for better conditions, the mine owners brought in poor blacks or hired convict labour from the penitentiary, which usually amounted to the same thing. The alternative was share cropping, where you lived in the landlord's house on the landlord's land and bought at the landlord's store, and usually were in the landlord's debt. At least they were free to pack up and leave in the middle of the night, in what the English call a "moonlight flit".

When the Bethlehem iron works were bought by interests in, I think, Pittsburgh, Alabamans had to to pay an additional transport charge from Pittsburgh to Alabama for their own iron! This is comparable, I think, to jute being grown in Bengal, baled in Bengal but sent by ship to Dundee to be made into sacks, some of which were shipped back to Calcutta and sold to Bengalis ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

Learning about British colonial policy from You Tube is like learning about Jewish business es from Die Stuermer.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

Der Stuermer, or Die Stuermerin, I suppose. And c.f. Mel Gibson's diatribes or even Big Dave on the British music industry ...

AC

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"Why capitalism is inherently imperialist: Class struggle at the international level"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"The Unmaking of India: How the British Impoverished the World’s Richest Country"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

BARD answers the question: Did tanistry play a role in the colonization of India by Britain?

Tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain. However, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest of India by weakening the Indian political system.

Tanistry is a system of succession in which the successor to a ruler is not their eldest son, but rather a chosen heir. This system was common in many parts of India, including the Mughal Empire, which was the dominant power in India at the time of the British arrival.

The problem with tanistry is that it can lead to instability and conflict. This is because there is always the potential for rival claimants to the throne to challenge the chosen heir. This can lead to civil wars and dynastic instability, which can make it easier for foreign powers to intervene.

The British East India Company took advantage of this instability to gain a foothold in India. They supported rival claimants to the throne and intervened in dynastic disputes. This helped them to weaken the Indian political system and make it easier for them to conquer India.

So, while tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest by weakening the Indian political system.

[Andrew Clarke]

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 3:30:19 PM UTC+10, gggg gggg wrote:

> The British East India Company took advantage of this instability to gain a foothold in India. They supported rival claimants to the throne and intervened in dynastic disputes. This helped them to weaken the Indian political system and make it easier for them to conquer India.
>
> So, while tanistry did not play a direct role in the colonization of India by Britain, it may have indirectly contributed to the British conquest by weakening the Indian political system.

I have recently read a comment in, I think, The Spectator, from a teacher who claimed that the majority of his Indian students believed that the British created the Indian caste system, which of course flourished thousands of years before the arrival of the East India Company, and which continues to flourish 75 years after Indian independence. Similarly, many Indians will blame intercommunal violence on a so-called "British Divide and Rule" policy, which avoids the uncomfortable truth that violence between religious communities and between castes similarly preceded British rule and has continued after it.

It really doesn't make any sense to talk about an "Indian Political System" before the twentieth century, any more than it does to talk about the German political system prior to 1870. India before the Raj was a congeries of local rajahs and maharajahs, not to mention the Mogul empire in the north which could be far from gentle with its Hindu subjects.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(2023 Y. upload):

"The British Conquest of India (1798-1806) I. Background & Grand Strategy"

[gggg gggg]

On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 10:16:36 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
>
> Who would have thought?
>
> dk

(Y. upload):

"How Did India Fall to the Europeans? | East vs. West"

[maxi...@gmail.com]

For anyone interested in this topic, this podcast is already a classic:
https://open.spotify.com/show/0sBh58hSTReUQiK4axYUVx

-Max

[Andrew Clarke]

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 11:02:49 AM UTC+10, maxi...@gmail.com wrote:

> For anyone interested in this topic, this podcast is already a classic:
> https://open.spotify.com/show/0sBh58hSTReUQiK4axYUVx
>
> -Max

Among the businesses that profited from slavery, we might include not only them ole plantations, but also the Pittsburg proprietors of the iron and steel furnaces of Birmingham, Alabama, worked by non-union labour and profiting from the use of rented convict labour - largely black men, arrested for trivial offences - from the local penitentiaries.

For theft and violence directed against native populations, see the expansion of the USA beyond its British colonial borders, passim.

For the settlement of former Indian territories, supposedly protected by treaties, see the Alabama Land Rush, in which thousands of dirt-poor farmers trekked south with their families and livestock, for a bright new day of poverty, disease, hopelessly unpayable debt, illiteracy and finally disenfranchisement.

Meanwhile, I have just watched an Indian documentary about prostitution villages - perfectly legal in India - where young women sell their bodies to more prosperous young men, in order to help feed their families. The young woman in question had also to go into debt to pay for a family marriage ceremony, and, as banks do not regard prostitution as employment and therefore would not lend her the money, she had, like a peasant smallholder, to go to a local money-lender who charges usurious amounts of interest. The plump, well-heeled, Indian lady journalist who interviewed this unfortunate girl, was naturally most sympathetic, but in a characteristic display of shameless hypocrisy, managed to blame the British Raj for this horrible trade in human flesh, despite the fact that the said Raj ended in 1947 since when the condition of this young woman and thousands like her have not improved one jot or one tittle for that matter.

Just think: if the USA had remained under British Rule, slavery would have been abolished there in the 1830s and the Civil War wouldn't have happened. And if British rule in America had been as bad as it is now said to have been, Patrick Henry would not have been able to stand up in the Virginia Assembly and say 'Give me liberty or give me death' because he wouldn't have had a Virginia Assembly to say it in. And, of course, Mr Henry's slaves really didn't have any say in the matter.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra