Das Lied von der Erde - Schuricht 1939
Jean-Denis Marx
recording of Das Lied von der Erde by Carl Schuricht and the Concertgebouw.
In the middle of Der Abschied, someone (from the audience ?) says a few
words which can be clearly heard over the music. Does anyone know what
happened during the performance ?
JDM
sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il
: I just listened to the recently reedited (by TIM) October 1939 live
A woman in the audience stood up and shouted "Deutschland ueber Alles,
Herr Schuricht." The audience reaction (not positive) is also audible.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Paul Goldstein
>
>In article <al4qat$1ktfjl$1...@ID-149140.news.dfncis.de>, Jean-Denis Marx
><jean-de...@bakernet.com> wrote:
>
>: I just listened to the recently reedited (by TIM) October 1939 live
>: recording of Das Lied von der Erde by Carl Schuricht and the Concertgebouw.
>: In the middle of Der Abschied, someone (from the audience ?) says a few
>: words which can be clearly heard over the music. Does anyone know what
>: happened during the performance ?
>
>A woman in the audience stood up and shouted "Deutschland ueber Alles,
>Herr Schuricht." The audience reaction (not positive) is also audible.
In the Google archives there should be an extensive post by Benjo Maso on this
subject. Check it out - it is fascinating.
Paul Goldstein
Tansal Arnas
> <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote:
>>
>> Jean-Denis Marx <jean-de...@bakernet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I just listened to the recently reedited (by TIM) October 1939 live
>>> recording of Das Lied von der Erde by Carl Schuricht and the Concertgebouw.
>>> In the middle of Der Abschied, someone (from the audience ?) says a few
>>> words which can be clearly heard over the music. Does anyone know what
>>> happened during the performance ?
>>
>> A woman in the audience stood up and shouted "Deutschland ueber Alles,
>> Herr Schuricht." The audience reaction (not positive) is also audible.
>
> In the Google archives there should be an extensive post by Benjo Maso on this
> subject. Check it out - it is fascinating.
Thanks, Paul, for pointing that out. It was well worth the read. Here's a
link for easy, er, linking for those who haven't read it yet, or wish to.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V4C7651B1
Tansal
Phil Garon
> In article <al4qat$1ktfjl$1...@ID-149140.news.dfncis.de>, Jean-Denis Marx <jean-de...@bakernet.com> wrote:
>
> : I just listened to the recently reedited (by TIM) October 1939 live
> : recording of Das Lied von der Erde by Carl Schuricht and the Concertgebouw.
> : In the middle of Der Abschied, someone (from the audience ?) says a few
> : words which can be clearly heard over the music. Does anyone know what
> : happened during the performance ?
>
> A woman in the audience stood up and shouted "Deutschland ueber Alles,
> Herr Schuricht." The audience reaction (not positive) is also audible.
There has been a lot of discussion of this incident on the Mahler
List, and a search through the List archives would provide more
details. Also, Tony Duggan and/or Benjo Maso could provide additional
information, if they are following this thread.
Many people think that the Dutch woman was an anti-Nazi, and that when
she shouted out what is quoted above -- at a well-chosen, key moment
in Der Abschied -- she was expressing sarcasm or derision, rather than
support for the Nazi cause.
Incidentally, IIRC this concert, in which Schuricht was filling in for
an indisposed Mengelberg, was a few months after the famous concert at
the Concertgebouw in which Mengelberg conducted the Mahler 4th -- the
one that is preserved on various recordings. There was a lot of
memorable Mahler being performed at the CoA that year, but it would
come to a screeching halt all too soon.
Phil Garon
Larry Friedman
"Phil Garon" <pga...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:613e3493.02090...@posting.google.com...
> <sch...@gefen.cc.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:<al5131$qe8$1...@news.iucc.ac.il>...
> > In article <al4qat$1ktfjl$1...@ID-149140.news.dfncis.de>, Jean-Denis Marx
<jean-de...@bakernet.com> wrote:
> >
> > : I just listened to the recently reedited (by TIM) October 1939 live
> > : recording of Das Lied von der Erde by Carl Schuricht and the
Concertgebouw.
> > : In the middle of Der Abschied, someone (from the audience ?) says a
few
> > : words which can be clearly heard over the music. Does anyone know what
> > : happened during the performance ?
> >
> > A woman in the audience stood up and shouted "Deutschland ueber Alles,
> > Herr Schuricht." The audience reaction (not positive) is also audible.
>
> There has been a lot of discussion of this incident on the Mahler
> List, and a search through the List archives would provide more
> details. Also, Tony Duggan and/or Benjo Maso could provide additional
> information, if they are following this thread.
>
> Many people think that the Dutch woman was an anti-Nazi, and that when
> she shouted out what is quoted above -- at a well-chosen, key moment
> in Der Abschied -- she was expressing sarcasm or derision, rather than
> support for the Nazi cause.
I would like to point out to anyone who has not heard this recording that
the woman did not "shout out" anything. Her lovely words are said in a
rather low tone, and there is clearly a smile in her voice. Whether this
smile was a pro-Nazi smile or an anti-Nazi smile is anyone's guess. I point
this out because I have heard so many versions of this happening that it has
become patently ridiculous (that she ran up on stage, grabbed Schuricht's
baton, turned to the audience with it and screamed her message while
wielding it - nonsense). The performance is really a very fine one and
worthy of being listened to for more than that momentary interruption, but
since it pops up like a bad penny every couple of months, just listen to the
recording before any inaccurate verbs like "shout" ot "scream" come up
again. It's time to put this canard to sleep.
-L
Jean-Denis Marx
Albert van der Schoot
Are you still around? I just found your post from 18+ years ago. I have identified the woman and am preparing a publication about the incident. I read quite a few (Dutch and German) reports about it, but never saw the 'patently ridiculous' qualifications you mention here. Could you provide their sources?
Forgive me for waking up the canard, I just want to provide it with a historically sound pond to swim in.
Sincerely,
Albert van der Schoot
3mmm
<albertvand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dear Larry Friedman,
>
>Are you still around? I just found your post from 18+ years ago. I have identified the woman and am preparing a publication about the incident. I read quite a few (Dutch and German) reports about it, but never saw the 'patently ridiculous' qualifications you mention here. Could you provide their sources?
>Forgive me for waking up the canard, I just want to provide it with a historically sound pond to swim in.
>Sincerely,
>Albert van der Schoot
>
A friend