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Beethoven Cello Sonatas: Hagen/Gulda
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Frank Lekens
May 27, 2017, 8:26:20 AM5/27/17
to
No dearth of good, lively recentish recordings of the Beethoven cello
sonatas of course (e.g. Perenyi/Schiff, Wispelwey/Lazic, Gastinel/Guy,
Phillips/Guy), but this one stands out for me -- pity it's OOP already:
Paul Gulda with Clemens Hagen on some Japanese label. I was lucky to
have a friend let me hear a copy.
It's not on Spotify and the first sonata seems to be the only one
available on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g1dXxQITss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj1tWaCtnDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOIJgu5-eM
(Incidentally: here's the young Hagens with Paul Gulda in Brahms'
quintet, in 1989:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIeAFLNpMe0)
Another, even more recent recording I was alerted to is the album
Beethoven, Period. by Matt Haimovitz & Christopher O'Riley. Different
sound world (period instruments), but also a performance that's more
than averagely exciting, IMHO. (This is on Spotify.)
By the way: a Japanese shop that had the Gulda/Hagen cd listed at a
fairly high but still normal price, eventually replied:
"Unfortunately, due to an unforeseen shortage, suppliers are no longer
able to fulfill orders for the item below.
In order for the distributor to fulfill the order, they needed to
manufacture more copies, but they were not going to be able to do so
unless enough orders accumulated.
Unfortunately, there were not enough orders, and so they did not
manufacture additional copies in this time."
So if that's true, then if you all start ordering it, maybe eventually
it will become available again? :-)
--
Frank Lekens
http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
sonatas of course (e.g. Perenyi/Schiff, Wispelwey/Lazic, Gastinel/Guy,
Phillips/Guy), but this one stands out for me -- pity it's OOP already:
Paul Gulda with Clemens Hagen on some Japanese label. I was lucky to
have a friend let me hear a copy.
It's not on Spotify and the first sonata seems to be the only one
available on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g1dXxQITss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj1tWaCtnDg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOIJgu5-eM
(Incidentally: here's the young Hagens with Paul Gulda in Brahms'
quintet, in 1989:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIeAFLNpMe0)
Another, even more recent recording I was alerted to is the album
Beethoven, Period. by Matt Haimovitz & Christopher O'Riley. Different
sound world (period instruments), but also a performance that's more
than averagely exciting, IMHO. (This is on Spotify.)
By the way: a Japanese shop that had the Gulda/Hagen cd listed at a
fairly high but still normal price, eventually replied:
"Unfortunately, due to an unforeseen shortage, suppliers are no longer
able to fulfill orders for the item below.
In order for the distributor to fulfill the order, they needed to
manufacture more copies, but they were not going to be able to do so
unless enough orders accumulated.
Unfortunately, there were not enough orders, and so they did not
manufacture additional copies in this time."
So if that's true, then if you all start ordering it, maybe eventually
it will become available again? :-)
--
Frank Lekens
http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
Steve Emerson
May 27, 2017, 9:59:48 PM5/27/17
to
SE.
Terry
May 28, 2017, 9:06:07 AM5/28/17
to
wkasimer
May 28, 2017, 12:46:12 PM5/28/17
to
Or listen to any real HIP recording, like Hakkila/Karttunen.
AB
May 28, 2017, 1:02:25 PM5/28/17
to
AB
Matthew Silverstein
May 28, 2017, 1:50:36 PM5/28/17
to
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 8:46:12 PM UTC+4, wkasimer wrote:
> Or listen to any real HIP recording, like Hakkila/Karttunen.
I still like the Hakkila/Karttunen recording, but -- much to my surprise, given my past experiences with Isserlis -- I think the newish Isserlis/Levin easily surpasses it. I strongly recommend it.
> Or listen to any real HIP recording, like Hakkila/Karttunen.
Matty
howie...@btinternet.com
May 28, 2017, 3:51:02 PM5/28/17
to
I agree completely about Isserlis and Levin. Isserlis has started to do some interesting chamber recordings - the Beethoven and the Bach gamba sonatas with Egarr.
Steve Emerson
May 28, 2017, 5:39:07 PM5/28/17
to
I'm familiar with the issue about decay/lack-of-decay in notes struck on fortepianos vs modern instruments. I haven't found it a terrible problem in these works, on record or in hearing a live cycle a few years ago, but will give it some thought.
SE.
Steve Emerson
May 28, 2017, 5:41:55 PM5/28/17
to
SE.
Oscar
May 28, 2017, 5:46:04 PM5/28/17
to
This has been my go-to over the last several months. One recording picked by Gramophone that truly deserved its selection as Recordibg of the Month. Outstanding recorddd sound, too--perhaps the finest chamber duo recording I've ever heard--by Studio Tribeca's Nicolas Bartholomee. Issued October 2015 on Evidence Classics.
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Evidence%2BClassics/EVCD015
<< This is the third instalment in François-Frédéric Guy’s traversal of Beethoven and the first to delve into the chamber music. He is well matched in intellect, musicianship and temperament by cellist Xavier Phillips as they journey from the ridiculous (the Variations on ‘See the Conqu’ring Hero Comes’, in which Guy dispatches the virtuoso piano part with complete aplomb, to delectable effect) to the sublime (the Op 102 Sonatas). The two sets of variations on themes from Mozart’s Magic Flute are a very different proposition from the ‘Conqu’ring Hero’ but just as persuasive, with the Op 66 set given a particularly sparkling reading.
Competition is of course thick on the ground, not least from Isserlis and Levin (playing a tremendously characterful McNulty fortepiano), which was an obvious choice for Record of the Month in February 2014. But Phillips and Guy deserve that accolade just as richly and their utterly different sound world is equally riveting.
From the same year as the ‘Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen’ Variations come the two Op 5 Sonatas with which Beethoven embraced the genre of sonata for piano and cello for the first time. In the opening Adagio sostenuto of Op 5 No 1, Phillips and Guy conjure up the sense of a genre being formed before your very ears. Compelling too is their reactivity, Guy never stealing the limelight from Phillips, though it would be easy to do so, particularly in the first two sonatas, in which the piano’s role is more overtly brilliant. The First Sonata’s Rondo is a highlight, with a real one-in-a-bar swing, the minor touches given due prominence. By comparison, both Müller-Schott/Hewitt and Qin/Tiu sound too well behaved; Isserlis and Levin are also a degree steadier but they offset this with some fantastically imaginative keyboard colours. But when it comes to judging the final moments, with the gentle ‘dissolve’ into a meditative mood that is then boisterously cast aside, Guy and Phillips are unassailable. The finale of Op 5 No 2 also has a wonderful elasticity, combining mischievousness with ardent tenderness as Beethoven demands. We’re made acutely aware of the different air breathed in each sonata. Phillips imbues the opening of Op 69 with a confiding quality that is just right: Müller-Schott is a tad more tentative, though both have a songful beauty of tone in their upper registers. In the same work’sScherzo, incidentally, Guy chooses (like Hewitt) not to repeat the tied notes where Beethoven marks a change of fingering, a feature which both Levin and Tiu observe.
One of the finest aspects of this new set is a sense of absolute rightness about each of the tempi chosen. The slow movement of Op 69, for instance, possesses a natural songfulness alongside which Müller-Schott/Hewitt and Qin/Tiu sound somewhat effortful; this contrasts splendidly with an ebulliently quick finale, neither player ever sounding puffed. The C major Sonata, Op 102 No 1, is just as impressive: it unfolds with a sense of total inevitability, its frequently gnarly world view convincingly conveyed, while the brief Adagio has a prayerful intensity.
And if you want to sample the seamless responsiveness of this partnership, just listen to the opening of Op 102 No 2, with its quicksilver changes of mood, from gruff good humour to elegant yearning and then back again to a kind of tart playfulness. The development, in which Beethoven conducts outlandish experiments on the briefest of motifs, is again judged to a nicety – Phillips’s deep sforzato accents slicing through the texture without becoming aggressive.
There follows one of Beethoven’s great late slow movements. Phillips and Guy shape its arching, aching lines with great intensity. Isserlis and Levin are a tad faster and the cellist’s use of vibrato only as an expressive effect is very striking. The test point with this Adagio is the espressivo melody introduced by piano and then joined by cello. Too slow and it sags like perished elastic, but not in the hands of Phillips and Guy (disc 2, tr 7, 0'56"). But then turn to du Pré and Barenboim and you find something more miraculous still: at a recklessly spacious tempo they turn it into a profoundly moving prayer. The close of the movement, a Beethovenian question mark, is answered by a fugal finale which in this new version has wondrous airiness and energy without trenchancy. It’s a recording that brings this sublime music into your living room in the most natural manner possible, and I can’t wait for Vol 4 of the series. Terrific!
-Harriet Smith>>
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Evidence%2BClassics/EVCD015
<< This is the third instalment in François-Frédéric Guy’s traversal of Beethoven and the first to delve into the chamber music. He is well matched in intellect, musicianship and temperament by cellist Xavier Phillips as they journey from the ridiculous (the Variations on ‘See the Conqu’ring Hero Comes’, in which Guy dispatches the virtuoso piano part with complete aplomb, to delectable effect) to the sublime (the Op 102 Sonatas). The two sets of variations on themes from Mozart’s Magic Flute are a very different proposition from the ‘Conqu’ring Hero’ but just as persuasive, with the Op 66 set given a particularly sparkling reading.
Competition is of course thick on the ground, not least from Isserlis and Levin (playing a tremendously characterful McNulty fortepiano), which was an obvious choice for Record of the Month in February 2014. But Phillips and Guy deserve that accolade just as richly and their utterly different sound world is equally riveting.
From the same year as the ‘Ein Mädchen oder Weibchen’ Variations come the two Op 5 Sonatas with which Beethoven embraced the genre of sonata for piano and cello for the first time. In the opening Adagio sostenuto of Op 5 No 1, Phillips and Guy conjure up the sense of a genre being formed before your very ears. Compelling too is their reactivity, Guy never stealing the limelight from Phillips, though it would be easy to do so, particularly in the first two sonatas, in which the piano’s role is more overtly brilliant. The First Sonata’s Rondo is a highlight, with a real one-in-a-bar swing, the minor touches given due prominence. By comparison, both Müller-Schott/Hewitt and Qin/Tiu sound too well behaved; Isserlis and Levin are also a degree steadier but they offset this with some fantastically imaginative keyboard colours. But when it comes to judging the final moments, with the gentle ‘dissolve’ into a meditative mood that is then boisterously cast aside, Guy and Phillips are unassailable. The finale of Op 5 No 2 also has a wonderful elasticity, combining mischievousness with ardent tenderness as Beethoven demands. We’re made acutely aware of the different air breathed in each sonata. Phillips imbues the opening of Op 69 with a confiding quality that is just right: Müller-Schott is a tad more tentative, though both have a songful beauty of tone in their upper registers. In the same work’sScherzo, incidentally, Guy chooses (like Hewitt) not to repeat the tied notes where Beethoven marks a change of fingering, a feature which both Levin and Tiu observe.
One of the finest aspects of this new set is a sense of absolute rightness about each of the tempi chosen. The slow movement of Op 69, for instance, possesses a natural songfulness alongside which Müller-Schott/Hewitt and Qin/Tiu sound somewhat effortful; this contrasts splendidly with an ebulliently quick finale, neither player ever sounding puffed. The C major Sonata, Op 102 No 1, is just as impressive: it unfolds with a sense of total inevitability, its frequently gnarly world view convincingly conveyed, while the brief Adagio has a prayerful intensity.
And if you want to sample the seamless responsiveness of this partnership, just listen to the opening of Op 102 No 2, with its quicksilver changes of mood, from gruff good humour to elegant yearning and then back again to a kind of tart playfulness. The development, in which Beethoven conducts outlandish experiments on the briefest of motifs, is again judged to a nicety – Phillips’s deep sforzato accents slicing through the texture without becoming aggressive.
There follows one of Beethoven’s great late slow movements. Phillips and Guy shape its arching, aching lines with great intensity. Isserlis and Levin are a tad faster and the cellist’s use of vibrato only as an expressive effect is very striking. The test point with this Adagio is the espressivo melody introduced by piano and then joined by cello. Too slow and it sags like perished elastic, but not in the hands of Phillips and Guy (disc 2, tr 7, 0'56"). But then turn to du Pré and Barenboim and you find something more miraculous still: at a recklessly spacious tempo they turn it into a profoundly moving prayer. The close of the movement, a Beethovenian question mark, is answered by a fugal finale which in this new version has wondrous airiness and energy without trenchancy. It’s a recording that brings this sublime music into your living room in the most natural manner possible, and I can’t wait for Vol 4 of the series. Terrific!
-Harriet Smith>>
sfr...@nycap.rr.com
May 28, 2017, 6:56:32 PM5/28/17
to
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 5:39:07 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the various HIP suggestions. In that category, I have and admire Bilson with the great Anner Bylsma but am making note of the others. Do people think Bylsma-Bilson is in some way not "real HIP"?
>
> SE.
>
>
> Thanks for the various HIP suggestions. In that category, I have and admire Bilson with the great Anner Bylsma but am making note of the others. Do people think Bylsma-Bilson is in some way not "real HIP"?
>
I have a recording with Bylsma and van Immerseel which is just terrific too.
MIFrost
sfr...@nycap.rr.com
May 28, 2017, 8:23:22 PM5/28/17
to
On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 6:56:32 PM UTC-4, sfr...@nycap.rr.com wrote:
>
> I have a recording with Bylsma and van Immerseel which is just terrific too.
>
> MIFrost
And while I have your attention, I also like the Zuill Bailey/Simone Dinnerstein set.
>
> I have a recording with Bylsma and van Immerseel which is just terrific too.
>
> MIFrost
MIFrost
Matthew Silverstein
May 28, 2017, 11:32:31 PM5/28/17
to
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 1:39:07 AM UTC+4, Steve Emerson wrote:
> Thanks for the various HIP suggestions. In that category, I have and admire
> Bilson with the great Anner Bylsma but am making note of the others. Do people
> think Bylsma-Bilson is in some way not "real HIP"?
I think it's certainly real HIP, and I still quite like it -- definitely more than Bylsma's second recording with Immerseel.
> Thanks for the various HIP suggestions. In that category, I have and admire
> Bilson with the great Anner Bylsma but am making note of the others. Do people
> think Bylsma-Bilson is in some way not "real HIP"?
Matty
Frank Lekens
May 29, 2017, 3:21:21 PM5/29/17
to
Steve Emerson schreef op 28-5-2017 23:39:
I'd never heard of Chuchro/Panenka. I'll probably end up ordering it
sometime (sigh) -- although my initial impression (it's on Spotify) is
that it's rather more genteel than some of the other versions suggested
here.
Another good HIP version to investigate, IMO, is Wispelwey's first
recording with Paul Komen.
Yet I was fairly familiar with Wispelwey/Komen, Bijlsma/Bilson and
Hakkila/Karttunen, all of which I like, and still I thought
Haimovitz/O'Riley had something to add to that.
sometime (sigh) -- although my initial impression (it's on Spotify) is
that it's rather more genteel than some of the other versions suggested
here.
Another good HIP version to investigate, IMO, is Wispelwey's first
recording with Paul Komen.
Yet I was fairly familiar with Wispelwey/Komen, Bijlsma/Bilson and
Hakkila/Karttunen, all of which I like, and still I thought
Haimovitz/O'Riley had something to add to that.
AB
May 29, 2017, 4:19:03 PM5/29/17
to
> >>
> >> Thanks, Frank. Interesting. I've seen this praised before. I think my favorite set of the sonatas is Fournier/Schnabel. But I'm starting to wonder if I should acquire Chuchro/Panenka. (Will have to revisit Perenyi/Schiff, which I like but haven't heard lately. Remember it as exquisitely detailed, not very broad....)
> >>
AB
cooper...@gmail.com
May 29, 2017, 5:00:15 PM5/29/17
to
On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 3:21:21 PM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> Steve Emerson schreef op 28-5-2017 23:39:
> Steve Emerson schreef op 28-5-2017 23:39:
> >> Thanks, Frank. Interesting. I've seen this praised before. I think my favorite set of the sonatas is Fournier/Schnabel. But I'm starting to wonder if I should acquire Chuchro/Panenka. (Will have to revisit Perenyi/Schiff, which I like but haven't heard lately. Remember it as exquisitely detailed, not very broad....)
> >>
> >> SE.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> SE.
> >
> >
> > SE.
> >
> I'd never heard of Chuchro/Panenka. I'll probably end up ordering it
> sometime (sigh) -- although my initial impression (it's on Spotify) is
> that it's rather more genteel than some of the other versions suggested
> here.
Yes, Chuchro/Panenka is more genteel, but also beautifully performed, as you might expect from two-thirds of the Suk Trio. Inexpensive lossless download is available from supraphonline.cz.
> >
> I'd never heard of Chuchro/Panenka. I'll probably end up ordering it
> sometime (sigh) -- although my initial impression (it's on Spotify) is
> that it's rather more genteel than some of the other versions suggested
> here.
I've just been listening to some live Nelsova performances issued on Audite. I thought her 102/2 with Balsam was excellent, better than their commercial recording. The whole Audite set has increased my appreciation of Nelsova's artistry.
AC
AB
May 29, 2017, 7:20:16 PM5/29/17
to
AB
cooper...@gmail.com
May 29, 2017, 8:20:39 PM5/29/17
to
Alan
AB
May 29, 2017, 8:29:22 PM5/29/17
to
Arri
Frank Berger
May 29, 2017, 8:43:39 PM5/29/17
to
sonata for cello and piano with Nelsova. I'm not familiar
with other recordings though I see there was this LP:
https://www.discogs.com/Zara-Nelsova-Grant-Johannesen-Zara-Nelsova-Grant-Johannesen/release/9425454
nmsz...@gmail.com
May 30, 2017, 12:37:04 PM5/30/17
to
Schiff/Fellner, "Pretty decent, if I must say"
From the Yo-Yo Ma Box (not that I don't also have the 3 discs from the time of their first release
From the EMI's du Pre Box:
with Barenboim (complete cello sonatas) plus
#3 and #5 with S. Kovacevich
I also have Channel Classics' Wispelwey set, but for some unknown reason I never took to it.
cooper...@gmail.com
May 30, 2017, 4:49:21 PM5/30/17
to
AC
wkasimer
May 31, 2017, 9:41:21 AM5/31/17
to
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 8:26:20 AM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> No dearth of good, lively recentish recordings of the Beethoven cello
> sonatas
This one is interesting; two performances of the music, performed by the same cellist and pianist, but one with a modern piano, and one with an assortment of period keyboard instruments:
> sonatas
https://www.amazon.com/Past-Present-Complete-Performances-Modern/dp/B002JP9HZ8
Both performances are excellent, even if neither would be my first choice.
BTW, am I the only one who still enjoys listening to Casals and Serkin?
AB
May 31, 2017, 11:53:31 AM5/31/17
to
AB
wkasimer
May 31, 2017, 12:26:30 PM5/31/17
to
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 11:53:31 AM UTC-4, AB wrote:
> is a shame that Casals did not record all the LvB sonatas earlier in his career.
But he did...
> is a shame that Casals did not record all the LvB sonatas earlier in his career.
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-Brahms-Sonata/dp/B00005U4WB
graham
May 31, 2017, 1:02:59 PM5/31/17
to
Graham
wkasimer
May 31, 2017, 2:46:42 PM5/31/17
to
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 8:26:20 AM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> Paul Gulda with Clemens Hagen on some Japanese label. I was lucky to
> have a friend let me hear a copy.
I was lucky enough to find this when it was still in print - I think that it's Japanese Victor. I hadn't listened to it in a while, but it's every bit as good as I remembered, and as good as any recording I've heard since.
> have a friend let me hear a copy.
Just listened to some of Capucon/Braley - and I have now culled it. Perhaps this is a good opportunity to go through my various recordings (and there are a lot of them) of these works and perhaps free up some shelf space.
AB
May 31, 2017, 3:09:23 PM5/31/17
to
AB
Steve Emerson
May 31, 2017, 3:10:07 PM5/31/17
to
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 6:41:21 AM UTC-7, wkasimer wrote:
> BTW, am I the only one who still enjoys listening to Casals and Serkin?
Not at all. I like them very much. I've got a slight preference for more-beautiful playing on both instruments, but I think these are essential recordings. OTOH, the ones PC did with Horszowski seem extremely dull. I don't know why, but that seems to be fairly common in Horszowski chamber recordings from the period.
> BTW, am I the only one who still enjoys listening to Casals and Serkin?
SE.
Frank Lekens
May 31, 2017, 5:30:04 PM5/31/17
to
graham schreef op 31-5-2017 19:02:
Who's R&R?
Frank Lekens
May 31, 2017, 5:32:26 PM5/31/17
to
wkasimer schreef op 31-5-2017 20:46:
I've sampled a bit of Capucon/Braley on Spotify and was disappointed.
Didn't explore further.
But otherwise, there are many recordings that are peak my interest in
some way. E.g. at first hearing I thought Melnikov/Queyras was rather
understated (certainly less outspoken than Melnikov's Beethoven violin
sonatas with Faust), but on closer listen they're actually not bad --
not bad at all!
Ditto Salque/Lesage, the two Dinnerstein recordings. Schiefen/Perl even.
Didn't explore further.
But otherwise, there are many recordings that are peak my interest in
some way. E.g. at first hearing I thought Melnikov/Queyras was rather
understated (certainly less outspoken than Melnikov's Beethoven violin
sonatas with Faust), but on closer listen they're actually not bad --
not bad at all!
Ditto Salque/Lesage, the two Dinnerstein recordings. Schiefen/Perl even.
graham
May 31, 2017, 6:28:46 PM5/31/17
to
Ricardo Jimenez
May 31, 2017, 9:33:20 PM5/31/17
to
for cello and piano? It works surprisingly well. I found a good
performance on Spotify by Jelena Ocic and Federico Lavato.
wkasimer
May 31, 2017, 10:05:43 PM5/31/17
to
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 5:32:26 PM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> Ditto Salque/Lesage, the two Dinnerstein recordings. Schiefen/Perl even.
There are two Dinnerstein recordings? I heard the one with Zuill Bailey, and didn't care for it enough to keep it. I can't quite remember why.
> Ditto Salque/Lesage, the two Dinnerstein recordings. Schiefen/Perl even.
After Hagen/Gulda, I listened to some of Perenyi/Schiff, which is also first-rate. And I've got Isserlis/Levin on order (I've been waiting for this to show up at BRO, like most Hyperion titles, but I got tired of waiting and ordered a copy from MDT yesterday).
Frank Lekens
Jun 1, 2017, 2:20:07 AM6/1/17
to
wkasimer schreef op 1-6-2017 04:05:
There's an earlier recording with Simca Heled.
Frank Lekens
Jun 1, 2017, 2:23:40 AM6/1/17
to
graham schreef op 1-6-2017 00:28:
Oh, of course. I find it curiously disappointing, especially the Philips
studio recording (I like their live recordings from Aldeburgh better).
Not as bland as Fournier's later recordings (with Gulda & Kempff), but
not as exciting/interesting as many other recordings either.
studio recording (I like their live recordings from Aldeburgh better).
Not as bland as Fournier's later recordings (with Gulda & Kempff), but
not as exciting/interesting as many other recordings either.
wkasimer
Jun 1, 2017, 11:15:49 AM6/1/17
to
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 2:23:40 AM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> >>> Similarly, am I the only one who enjoys R&R?
> >>> Graham
> >> Who's R&R?
> >>
> > Rostropovich & Richter
>
> Oh, of course. I find it curiously disappointing, especially the Philips
> studio recording (I like their live recordings from Aldeburgh better).
> Not as bland as Fournier's later recordings (with Gulda & Kempff), but
> not as exciting/interesting as many other recordings either.
I agree. Much of the problem is Richter, who sounds like he's sightreading, and in a different room than Rostropovich and the microphones.
> >>> Similarly, am I the only one who enjoys R&R?
> >>> Graham
> >> Who's R&R?
> >>
> > Rostropovich & Richter
>
> Oh, of course. I find it curiously disappointing, especially the Philips
> studio recording (I like their live recordings from Aldeburgh better).
> Not as bland as Fournier's later recordings (with Gulda & Kempff), but
> not as exciting/interesting as many other recordings either.
wkasimer
Jun 1, 2017, 3:24:18 PM6/1/17
to
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 11:15:49 AM UTC-4, wkasimer wrote:
> Much of the problem is Richter, who sounds like he's sightreading, and in a different room than Rostropovich and the microphones.
Some comments on today's Beethoven piano/cello listening.
> Much of the problem is Richter, who sounds like he's sightreading, and in a different room than Rostropovich and the microphones.
The balance is much better on Pressler/Meneses, but considering the positive reviews I've read of this set, I was disappointed - the players are on the same page, but these are very laid back performances, too much so for my taste. Cull.
I expected to cull Levine/Harrell (another Japanese issue that hasn't seen a CD issue stateside), but it reminded me of what a superb chamber musician James Levine was (and perhaps still is). His playing is assertive and his articulation superb. Harrell, on the other hand, is the weaker of the pair, his small, rather unattractive tone is sometimes overwhelmed by the piano. But I prefer that over the alternative - particularly in the earlier works, the piano is more important. I'll keep this one for Levine's contribution (and because if I get rid of it, I'll never be able to find another copy).
Buchbinder/Starker on Teldec is rather similar, and as a fan of Buchbinder, I'll keep this one too, but Starker's playing is much too soft-edged for my taste.
I'm really hoping that Alisa Weilerstein and her regular partner, Inon Barnatan record this music soon. Based on their partnership on a Rachmaninov/Chopin disc, it ought to be exceptional.
Steve Emerson
Jun 1, 2017, 3:51:57 PM6/1/17
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FWIW, I was bothered by a harsh, metallic tone in Buchbinder's treble; Starker I found moderately interesting.
Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
SE.
wkasimer
Jun 1, 2017, 4:14:31 PM6/1/17
to
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:51:57 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
> Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
That's on tomorrow's playlist.
> Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
Bill
wkasimer
Jun 2, 2017, 1:16:19 PM6/2/17
to
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:51:57 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
> Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
One of the best I've listened to - I'd put it on the same level with Hagen/Gulda and Perenyi/Schiff. It's also hypercomplete, including arrangements of the Horn Sonata and one of the string trios. Geringas is a terrific cellist who deserves much, much greater fame.
Some other listening today - Noras/Rigutto is very, very good, but doesn't add anything that isn't done better by the above, and this set does not include the three sets of variations. Neither do Li-Wei Qin and Albert Tiu, which is competently performed but not very memorable. I'm culling both of these, especially after listening to Geringas/Fountain.
Finckel and Han on ArtistLed is excellent - Han's playing is particularly assertive, and some may object to the resulting balance, but it's realistic-sounding, and similar to what they sounded like when I heard the duo live. They're particularly good in the variations, so this one I'll keep for a bit, at least.
Queyras and Melnikov are as good as one would expect, but I have the distinct impression that the engineers have artifically boosted Queyras' cello sound to an unrealistic level.
As for Tortelier and Heidsieck, I haven't listened in ages - I have this buried in the big Tortelier box. I suspect that it was more recommendable a couple of decades ago, before the explosion of recordings of these works, when the other available CD alternatives were pretty limited in number and mostly not very good. Over the past 20 years, nearly every cellist of any reknown (and some of no reknown whatsoever) has recorded the Beethoven cello sonatas (as well as the Bach suites).
I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that the sets I like best - Geringas/Fountain, Perenyi/Schiff, and Hagen/Gulda - are all done by performers who've spent a significant portion, perhaps the majority of their careers playing chamber music.
Al Eisner
Jun 2, 2017, 5:32:27 PM6/2/17
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, wkasimer wrote:
> I'm really hoping that Alisa Weilerstein and her regular partner, Inon Barnatan record this music soon. Based on their partnership on a Rachmaninov/Chopin disc, it ought to be exceptional.
I heard them do the Op. 102 pair in recital recently. While I enjoyed the
> I'm really hoping that Alisa Weilerstein and her regular partner, Inon Barnatan record this music soon. Based on their partnership on a Rachmaninov/Chopin disc, it ought to be exceptional.
playing, I didn't find it especially compelling. However, it could
easily have been an off-day (for me, that is!).
A review of a slightly earlier performance is posted by musicweb:
http://seenandheard-international.com/2017/03/a-superb-recital-from-alisa-weilerstein-and-inon-barnatan/
[The recital I attended replaced the Britten by Chopin, which did impress me.]
If you manage to hear them in LvB, please let us know.
--
Al Eisner
Steve Emerson
Jun 2, 2017, 7:49:11 PM6/2/17
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Geringas/Fountain is my next purchase (have Isserlis/Levin out from a nearby library).
SE.
Al Eisner
Jun 5, 2017, 7:26:57 PM6/5/17
to
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, Steve Emerson wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 10:16:19 AM UTC-7, wkasimer wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:51:57 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
>>
>> One of the best I've listened to - I'd put it on the same level with Hagen/Gulda and Perenyi/Schiff. It's also hypercomplete, including arrangements of the Horn Sonata and one of the string trios. Geringas is a terrific cellist who deserves much, much greater fame.
...
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 10:16:19 AM UTC-7, wkasimer wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:51:57 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, any comments on Geringas/Fountain?
>>
>> One of the best I've listened to - I'd put it on the same level with Hagen/Gulda and Perenyi/Schiff. It's also hypercomplete, including arrangements of the Horn Sonata and one of the string trios. Geringas is a terrific cellist who deserves much, much greater fame.
>
> Thanks for that, Bill. I've been listening to large swaths of Geringas/Fountain on Youtube the last few days and am similarly taken with them.
Thanks very much, Bill and Steve, for this. I just listened to #4
> Thanks for that, Bill. I've been listening to large swaths of Geringas/Fountain on Youtube the last few days and am similarly taken with them.
on youtube (a Naxos post, which almost no-one has listened to!) and
really enjoyed it. The livelier movements in particular seemed much
more interesting than what I recall from the Weilerstein/Barnatan
recital I recently attended. I've heard little or anything from
Geringas in the past, and I don't think I've even heard of Fountain!
> Geringas/Fountain is my next purchase (have Isserlis/Levin out from a nearby library).
modern set is Wispelwey/Lazic, whom I very much like in the sonatas, but
who seem too serious for the variations. Also, that complete set is less
complete, omitting the arranged horn sonata and whatever Op. 64 is.)
It's only $12 for the 3-CD set at Berkshire. Steve: please don't take
their last copy. :)
--
Al Eisner
wkasimer
Jun 5, 2017, 9:35:22 PM6/5/17
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On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 7:26:57 PM UTC-4, Al Eisner wrote:
> I've heard little or anything from
> Geringas in the past, and I don't think I've even heard of Fountain!
I don't know much about Fountain. Geringas was one of Rostropovich's more successful students, winning the Tchaikovsky Competition in 1970. He's kept a fairly low profile, teaches, plays a lot of chamber music, as well as music by contemporary composers. His discography is rather limited, but it includes the complete Boccherini concerti, and *three* recordings of the Bach suites, two of which are long OOP and impossible to find, but the most recent, on the Es-dur label, is pretty easy to find either on Amazon and eBay. Curiously, he also received "original jacket" treatment from BMG:
> I've heard little or anything from
> Geringas in the past, and I don't think I've even heard of Fountain!
https://www.amazon.com/Original-Jacket-Collection-GERINGAS-DAVID/dp/B001QSCZ12
wkasimer
Jun 7, 2017, 9:47:59 AM6/7/17
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On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 10:05:43 PM UTC-4, wkasimer wrote:
> I've got Isserlis/Levin on order (I've been waiting for this to show up at BRO, like most Hyperion titles, but I got tired of waiting and ordered a copy from MDT yesterday). <
It arrived yesterday. Based on just the first disc, this is truly superb - alert, assertive, and passionate playing by both Isserlis and Levin, and the balance between Isserlis' cello and Levin's fortepiano is exactly right. I'll have to go back and listen to Karttunen/Hakkila - my recollection is that the two of them play as though their hair is on fire, which is how I like my Beethoven.
> I've got Isserlis/Levin on order (I've been waiting for this to show up at BRO, like most Hyperion titles, but I got tired of waiting and ordered a copy from MDT yesterday). <
Frank Lekens
Jun 7, 2017, 3:55:38 PM6/7/17
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Steve Emerson schreef op 3-6-2017 01:49:
Yes, thanks for all these new suggestions. I'd seen Finckel&Han on
Spotify but forgotten about them, probably because their names aren't
really well known this side of the pond (AFAIK), and until now totally
overlooked Geringas. Nice.
Another good recording IMO that I'm listening to right now is the live
recording by Wirssaladze & Gutman, made in Amsterdam in the early 90s,
issued on Live Classics. It has some of that intensity that I'd hoped
for but found strangely lacking in R&R.
Spotify but forgotten about them, probably because their names aren't
really well known this side of the pond (AFAIK), and until now totally
overlooked Geringas. Nice.
Another good recording IMO that I'm listening to right now is the live
recording by Wirssaladze & Gutman, made in Amsterdam in the early 90s,
issued on Live Classics. It has some of that intensity that I'd hoped
for but found strangely lacking in R&R.
mrfi...@gmail.com
Jun 8, 2017, 12:51:09 AM6/8/17
to
SE.
Frank Lekens
Jun 8, 2017, 3:15:52 PM6/8/17
to
wkasimer schreef op 7-6-2017 15:47:
Anybody heard Shai Wosner/Ralph Kirshbaum? I just saw it on Spotify,
seems to be new.
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 10:05:43 PM UTC-4, wkasimer wrote:
>
>> I've got Isserlis/Levin on order (I've been waiting for this to show up at BRO, like most Hyperion titles, but I got tired of waiting and ordered a copy from MDT yesterday). <
>
> It arrived yesterday. Based on just the first disc, this is truly superb - alert, assertive, and passionate playing by both Isserlis and Levin, and the balance between Isserlis' cello and Levin's fortepiano is exactly right. I'll have to go back and listen to Karttunen/Hakkila - my recollection is that the two of them play as though their hair is on fire, which is how I like my Beethoven.
>
That's how I remember them too.
>
>> I've got Isserlis/Levin on order (I've been waiting for this to show up at BRO, like most Hyperion titles, but I got tired of waiting and ordered a copy from MDT yesterday). <
>
> It arrived yesterday. Based on just the first disc, this is truly superb - alert, assertive, and passionate playing by both Isserlis and Levin, and the balance between Isserlis' cello and Levin's fortepiano is exactly right. I'll have to go back and listen to Karttunen/Hakkila - my recollection is that the two of them play as though their hair is on fire, which is how I like my Beethoven.
>
Anybody heard Shai Wosner/Ralph Kirshbaum? I just saw it on Spotify,
seems to be new.
wkasimer
Jun 8, 2017, 3:29:57 PM6/8/17
to
On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 3:15:52 PM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> Anybody heard Shai Wosner/Ralph Kirshbaum? I just saw it on Spotify,
> seems to be new.
I haven't, but it got a rave in a recent Fanfare issue.
> Anybody heard Shai Wosner/Ralph Kirshbaum? I just saw it on Spotify,
> seems to be new.
Bill
Matthew Silverstein
Jun 8, 2017, 3:34:16 PM6/8/17
to
On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 11:15:52 PM UTC+4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> wkasimer schreef op 7-6-2017 15:47:
> wkasimer schreef op 7-6-2017 15:47:
>> I'll have to go back and listen to Karttunen/Hakkila - my recollection is
>> that the two of them play as though their hair is on fire, which is how I
>> like my Beethoven.
>
> That's how I remember them too.
Me too, but I think Hakkila is much stronger than Karttunen, whose tone is tiring, especially in slower movements. I think Isserlis and Levin have just as much energy but capture much more of the beauty and caprice.
>> that the two of them play as though their hair is on fire, which is how I
>> like my Beethoven.
>
> That's how I remember them too.
Matty
Frank Lekens
Jun 8, 2017, 4:34:41 PM6/8/17
to
Matthew Silverstein schreef op 8-6-2017 21:34:
I'll have to investigate.
Another HIP performance you may or may not be familiar with that I just
found on Spotify: Tanya Tomkins & Eric Zivan.
And an outlier that might escape many people's notice, since there's
whole contingent of Italian performers whose cd's seem to sell mainly in
Italy (or at least are prominently featured only on Amazon.it): Enrico
Dindo & Pietro De Maria.
I fairly enjoy both players' Bach (cello suites & WTC respectively) so
I'll be curious to hear what they make of Beethoven. Luckily it's on
Spotify (as Isserlis/Levin isn't -- Hyperion doesn't go in for it).
Another HIP performance you may or may not be familiar with that I just
found on Spotify: Tanya Tomkins & Eric Zivan.
And an outlier that might escape many people's notice, since there's
whole contingent of Italian performers whose cd's seem to sell mainly in
Italy (or at least are prominently featured only on Amazon.it): Enrico
Dindo & Pietro De Maria.
I fairly enjoy both players' Bach (cello suites & WTC respectively) so
I'll be curious to hear what they make of Beethoven. Luckily it's on
Spotify (as Isserlis/Levin isn't -- Hyperion doesn't go in for it).
wkasimer
Jun 8, 2017, 4:53:49 PM6/8/17
to
On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 3:34:16 PM UTC-4, Matthew Silverstein wrote:
> Me too, but I think Hakkila is much stronger than Karttunen, whose tone is tiring, especially in slower movements. <
I listened to a bit of this last night, and agree - Hakkila is superb (as she is in the Mozart piano sonatas - I haven't heard her in anything else), but Karttunen is a weaker partner. The artistic balance is better with Isserlis and Levin.
> Me too, but I think Hakkila is much stronger than Karttunen, whose tone is tiring, especially in slower movements. <
Matthew Silverstein
Jun 9, 2017, 11:06:21 AM6/9/17
to
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 12:34:41 AM UTC+4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> Another HIP performance you may or may not be familiar with that I just
> found on Spotify: Tanya Tomkins & Eric Zivan.
I culled this several years ago. Here are the comments I made on rmcr before doing so: "This disc features HIP performances of Beethoven's last three cello
> Another HIP performance you may or may not be familiar with that I just
> found on Spotify: Tanya Tomkins & Eric Zivan.
sonatas. This music has been particularly well-served on disc, but I was
excited to hear this new disc nonetheless. Ultimately, I was disappointed.
One huge problem is that the (fairly modern sounding) fortepiano is far
too distantly recorded, undermining its percussive contributions at
various key points. The cello dominates the proceedings throughout. This
does have one advantage: it highlights Tanya Tomkins absolutely gorgeous
tone. (She plays with restrained but noticeable vibrato.) But that is not
enough to compensate for the lack of drama and of give and take that
results. Too often I had the feeling that some superb performances were
being ruined by the skewed recording balance. Interpretively, Zivian and
Tomkins tend to play with less intensity but a greater sense of freedom
and rhapsody than, say, Karttunen and Hakkila. They are terrific in the
stormy parts of the second movement of 102/ii, where they turn in a
wonderfully passionate performance. The central section truly sings. Op.
69 also comes off as more "Romantic" than it does with either
Karttuen/Hakkila or Bylsma/Bilson, although here the rhythm sometimes
seems to sag a bit at times, and Tomkins' intonation is not always spot
on."
Matty
nmsz...@gmail.com
Jun 9, 2017, 7:31:59 PM6/9/17
to
I came to the realization that I have both Bylsma recording sets, accompanied by Bilson (on Nonesuch, both Volumes I and II) and the Immerseel pair (Sony).
An oddity concerning my copy of 'Volume 1' of the Nonesuch recording is that the two sonatas are assigned a single track number (and without even any index markings), such the disc contains 2 tracks, no more no less.
An oddity concerning my copy of 'Volume 1' of the Nonesuch recording is that the two sonatas are assigned a single track number (and without even any index markings), such the disc contains 2 tracks, no more no less.
Matthew Silverstein
Jun 9, 2017, 11:45:13 PM6/9/17
to
On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 3:31:59 AM UTC+4, nmsz...@gmail.com wrote:
> An oddity concerning my copy of 'Volume 1' of the Nonesuch recording is that
> the two sonatas are assigned a single track number (and without even any index
> markings), such the disc contains 2 tracks, no more no less.
Mine too. For what it's worth, I think Bylsma I is far superior to Bylsma II.
> An oddity concerning my copy of 'Volume 1' of the Nonesuch recording is that
> the two sonatas are assigned a single track number (and without even any index
> markings), such the disc contains 2 tracks, no more no less.
Matty
wkasimer
Jul 5, 2017, 1:21:22 PM7/5/17
to
On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 4:34:41 PM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> And an outlier that might escape many people's notice, since there's
> whole contingent of Italian performers whose cd's seem to sell mainly in
> Italy (or at least are prominently featured only on Amazon.it): Enrico
> Dindo & Pietro De Maria.
Thanks for pointing Dindo out to me - I'd never heard of him before, but his Bach suites showed up at Berkshire a week or so ago, and arrived Monday - yet another excellent set of these works. A fine musician, with superb technique, gorgeous tone, and interesting ideas about how the music should go. I've also got a copy of de Maria's WTC1 on order, and will likely order their Beethoven.
> And an outlier that might escape many people's notice, since there's
> whole contingent of Italian performers whose cd's seem to sell mainly in
> Italy (or at least are prominently featured only on Amazon.it): Enrico
> Dindo & Pietro De Maria.
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