Mahler: Symphony No. 1

[Norman Schwartz]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2014/04/08/300616048/a-debut-symphony-that-embraced-the-world

"Every moment in the First Symphony is motivated and important, all the way
to its irresistible Hollywood ending, when Mahler instructs the horns to
stand up to play the final measures. It is visually and aurally
spine-tingling and captures that over-the-top abandon that personifies
Mahler's music."


In the booklet accompanying the Telarc recording of the 'Titan 'by Zander
and the /Philharmonia 'Titan', it appears that Mahler not only asked for the
horns to stand up, but to play so loudly that they overpowered the trumpets
and the entire orchestra.

Are there any recordings in which anything such as that can be heard? I
couldn't hear the horns playing that way in Zander's Telarc recording.
Additionally I don't recall ever having attending a Mahler 1 performance,
however I think I'd remember it if that took place. Has anyone ever attended
a performance during which the horns stood and played in such an extreme
manner? Also, are there any recordings in which it's possible to hear the
horns playing like that?

[Sol L. Siegel]

Recordings? I don't think so, really.

As for performances, it used to be de rigeur for the horns to stand at
the last statement of the big theme of the finale. Whether it made
that big a difference in the sound, I couldn't tell. But it always
brought the audience to its feet. I saw it a number of times in the
'70s and '80s, but now can't recall when the last time actually was.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Frank Berger]

I checked two performances on you tube. One with Bernstein and the
Vienna PO. Doesn't look like the horns stood. Not sure what the
orchestra is, but the French horns do stand in this performance by
Eschenbach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8dLKR3yOVY

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[Phlmaestro75]

On Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:24:14 PM UTC-4, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>
> Recordings? I don't think so, really.
>
>
>
> As for performances, it used to be de rigeur for the horns to stand at
>
> the last statement of the big theme of the finale. Whether it made
>
> that big a difference in the sound, I couldn't tell. But it always
>
> brought the audience to its feet. I saw it a number of times in the
>
> '70s and '80s, but now can't recall when the last time actually was.
>
>
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
>

I recall some brass players standing at the end of the performance I saw Nezet-Seguin lead here in Philly last season, but I can't remember if it was just the horns or all of the brass.

[Norman Schwartz]

Many thanks to all 3 gentlemen who took their time to reply to my inquiry.

[Gerard]

"Norman Schwartz" wrote in message news:oanmv.411190$wV4.2...@fx22.iad...

===============

I was at a performance in the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam where a youth
orchestra played it that way. To my surprise.

[chriskh...@gmail.com]

> I was at a performance in the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam where a youth
>
> orchestra played it that way. To my surprise.

The issue of the horns standing to play the last bars of the finale led to one of the few occasions when Barbirolli replied to his critics. Having had his horns duly stand, he read the next morning that he was guilty of jazz-band-style vulgarity. Furious, he wrote to ask if the critic was aware Mahler had actually asked for the horns to stand.

I remember the young Edo de Waart had his horns stand at the end of a performance with the Scottish National Orchestra in the early 1970s. Does anyone (in San Francisco for example) know if he has continued to do this in more recent times?

Chris Howell

[Norman Schwartz]

Maazel/NY Philharmonic did it that way here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9iH5ym1F4
(Poor audio/video, a telecast of NPR's 'Live from Lincoln Center'.)

[Sol L. Siegel]

Phlmaestro75 <phlmae...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:095e3b20-4fd9-4759...@googlegroups.com:

> I recall some brass players standing at the end of the performance I
> saw Nezet-Seguin lead here in Philly last season, but I can't remember
> if it was just the horns or all of the brass.

Oh, dear: neither can I. Typically it would have been the horns.

I do recall long-ago performances by Klaus Tennstedt and Werner
Torkanowsky here where the horns stood to rabble-rousing effect.
But I can't recall for the life of me if Muti did it. Logic
dictates that me must have; he wouldn't have been able to
resist the urge. I very much like his EMI recording of the work.

[Mr. Mike]

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:26:29 -0400, "Norman Schwartz"
<nm...@optonline.net> wrote:

>"Every moment in the First Symphony is motivated and important, all the way
>to its irresistible Hollywood ending, when Mahler instructs the horns to
>stand up to play the final measures. It is visually and aurally
>spine-tingling and captures that over-the-top abandon that personifies
>Mahler's music."

I have seen moments in Mahler symphonies where the oboe players play
with their instruments high up in the air, not down in front of their
bodies as normal. Is this also indicated in the score?

[Alan Dawes]

In article <TzFmv.483696$s87.4...@fx11.iad>,

Abbado in his 2009 Lucerne Festival performance (EuroArts blu-ray 2057964)
has the horns playing "bells up" at 3 minutes before the end and then at
1min 30 secs from end all the horns and one trompbone and one trumpet
placed next to the horns all stand until the end with the rest of the
brass remaining seated.

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

[jrsnfld]

On Friday, June 13, 2014 5:01:56 PM UTC-7, Mr. Mike wrote:

> I have seen moments in Mahler symphonies where the oboe players play
> with their instruments high up in the air, not down in front of their
> bodies as normal. Is this also indicated in the score?

Yes. Mahler wrote "Bells up" explicitly in the score ("Schalltrichter auf", also sometimes "Schalltrichter hoch"). Not just for oboes.

(Also, it is normal for many oboists to always have their bells up relatively high--not parallel to the floor but, say, as little as 20-30 degrees short of parallel). Very few have them "down" as far as, say, clarinetists hold their instruments.)

--Jeff

[Phlmaestro75]

I watched a taped performance of the PO and Nezet-Seguin performing the Mahler 1st during their recent China tour yesterday on-line (available for a few more days with free registration here: http://yunbomedia.com/Events/EventDetail/39422fd5-a0fe-4e67-b998-046596402a48 )

Interestingly, it appeared that all of the horn players and one trombonist stood at the end. They didn't have the camera on the rest of the trombonists or trumpet-players for more than a split second at a time, but it appeared that the rest of them were seated. Not sure what the story was with the single trombonist, who I didn't recognize, by the way. He appears very young. I wouldn't be surprised if he is a Curtis musician filling in during the tour.

[M forever]

Orchestre de Paris. So, in this case, they really are French horns.

[jrsnfld]

On Thursday, July 3, 2014 1:16:21 PM UTC-7, Phlmaestro75 wrote:
> On Friday, June 13, 2014 5:14:51 PM UTC-4, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>

> > Phlmaestro75 wrote in

> Interestingly, it appeared that all of the horn players and one trombonist stood at the end. They didn't have the camera on the rest of the trombonists or trumpet-players for more than a split second at a time, but it appeared that the rest of them were seated. Not sure what the story was with the single trombonist, who I didn't recognize, by the way. He appears very young. I wouldn't be surprised if he is a Curtis musician filling in during the tour.

In the score there's a 4th trombone part that plays only in the last movement. At number 56 it's the only trombone that Mahler asks to stand. It's the only trombone that is basically replicating the horn melody at that point--that seems to be the only reason the part is there at all. A "faux" horn, so to speak helping the horns project and adding color.

--Jeff

[Orchman]

On Friday, June 13, 2014 8:01:56 PM UTC-4, Mr. Mike wrote:> I have seen moments in Mahler symphonies where the oboe players play

>
> with their instruments high up in the air, not down in front of their
>
> bodies as normal. Is this also indicated in the score?>>

Yes - "schalltrichter auf" [bells up]- a not so uncommon instruction in Mahler scores.

[Phlmaestro75]

Thanks for the explanation.

[Frank Berger]

Both of which I pointed out in this thread back on June 12.