The Verdi Requiem
ansermetniac
Toscanini 1940 Live
Cantelli 1955 Live
What are the sublime:
1) Live recordings
2) Studio Recordings
Abbedd
Todd Schurk
Szell,January 5, 1968, Carnegie Hall,
Tucci,Baker,Duval,Talvela, Cleveland Orchestra,live.
ansermetniac
wrote:
Is the above available for general distribution?
Abbedd
bpnjensen
about 25 years ago...
Bruce Jensen
Todd Schurk
No,it isn't I'm afraid. It was on Myto for a very short time,and that
issue is very hard to get. I hope it will show up in a general
release-but who knows. It is white hot-and truly belongs in the company
of the two you mentioned-which I totally agree with btw. Todd-not
re-Todd
ansermetniac
wrote:
agreeing with me can get you in trouble around here
Abbedd
Todd Schurk
It's not in the same class as those mentioned above. Very good-but not
a legendary.
Todd Schurk
We all get into trouble around here sooner or later...and remember we
agree about Bloom as well...I'd rather agree than not actually-I must
be having a good morning.
ansermetniac
wrote:
Here is some anal trivia:
The AT 1940 and Cantelli 1955 have the same principal Flute, Fagott
and Tuba- Wummer, Polisi and Bell, respectively
Abbedd
ansermetniac
wrote:
But keep in mind, discussing anything with someone you agree with is
not as stimulating as with someone who disagrees
Abbedd
Simon Roberts
I would probably start with Serafin/EMI, Toscanini/RCA, Markevitch/Melodram,
Fricsay/DG (the earlier one), Giulini/EMI, Karajan/DG (DVD, not CD), Muti/EMI
(the earlier one), and maybe Solti/Chicago live (L. Price, Minton, Pavarotti,
Howell).
Simon
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
wkas...@comcast.net
Simon Roberts wrote:
> Markevitch/Melodram,
Is this better than his Soviet recording?
Bill
Todd Schurk
And all three of those principal instruments are of supreme importance
in this particular work...which release of the AT 1940 sounds the best?
Simon Roberts
wkas...@comcast.net says...
>
>
>Simon Roberts wrote:
>
>> Markevitch/Melodram,
>
>Is this better than his Soviet recording?
Sounds a bit more spontaneous/exciting to me; you may prefer a different
soprano, however....
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>How is Abbado's version? It received much to-do when it first came out
>about 25 years ago...
Did it? (I assume you're talking about his first recording, with Ricciaralli et
al.; there are other Abbado performances, including a DG remake and - the Abbado
performance I like the most of this work - a video of an Edinburgh Festival
concert with Margaret Price et al.) Anyway, I thought it very disappointing
when it came out, generally dully conducted (aside from a few gripping moments,
like the Dies Irae, which only served to make the rest of it sound blank), the
potentially wonderful soloists not at their best, the choir a mess of unmatched,
wide vibrato (a problem doubtless exacerbated by over-miking).
I have no idea whether such a concert ever took place, but a recording of a live
performance a few years earlier with the same soloists and Abbado in the same
mode as his superb Covent Garden Ballo would be something special....
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:9kgn329njoc420jgc...@4ax.com:
I disagree. ;--)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
Matthew B. Tepper
4ax.com:
> Here is some anal trivia:
>
> The AT 1940 and Cantelli 1955 have the same principal Flute, Fagott
> and Tuba- Wummer, Polisi and Bell, respectively
Wummer, not C. Coppola?
Alex Panda
"ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
The live Fricsay on DG.
Gerard
>
> But keep in mind, discussing anything with someone you agree with is
> not as stimulating as with someone who disagrees
>
O! That's why your name/attitude is antisemiteniac. To get some stimulation.
ansermetniac
wrote:
The original reelase from M & A. The new one is done by graham newton
so it is bound to be horrible
Abbedd
Gerard
>
> I would probably start with Serafin/EMI, Toscanini/RCA,
> Markevitch/Melodram, Fricsay/DG (the earlier one), Giulini/EMI,
Do you know Giulini's recordings issued on BBC Classics?
What's your opinion about them?
ansermetniac
<oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>ansermetniac <anserm...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in news:jagn32dclvq82j72til2kbnnulhj0obt8b@
>4ax.com:
>
>> Here is some anal trivia:
>>
>> The AT 1940 and Cantelli 1955 have the same principal Flute, Fagott
>> and Tuba- Wummer, Polisi and Bell, respectively
>
>Wummer, not C. Coppola?
NBC Flute principals
Wummer 1937-42
Coppola 1942-47
Lora 1947-52
Renzi Jr. 1952-54
Abbedd
ansermetniac
So far it has all been recommendations for live perfromances. How
many of the recommended Conductors were not Catholic or Jewish?
Abbedd
ansermetniac
Gerard
Hmmm. How stimulating!
Andrew T. Kay
> In article <1144766423.3...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bpnjensen
> says...
> >
> >How is Abbado's version? It received much to-do when it first came out
> >about 25 years ago...
>
> Did it? (I assume you're talking about his first recording, with Ricciaralli et
> al.; there are other Abbado performances, including a DG remake and - the Abbado
> performance I like the most of this work - a video of an Edinburgh Festival
> concert with Margaret Price et al.)
There's also the most recent one with the Alagnas on EMI, available in
audio and visual formats; probably the one to avoid at all costs.
> Anyway, I thought it very disappointing
> when it came out, generally dully conducted (aside from a few gripping moments,
> like the Dies Irae, which only served to make the rest of it sound blank),
Yep. When Abbado's Verdi is bad, it's usually bad in precisely this way
-- slick, bland, and faceless. (Come to think of it, that describes
most of what he does when he's not "on," not just Verdi.) The soupy,
indistinct, perspective-free recorded sound doesn't help. At concerted
passages, everyone sounds to be floating around in a bowl of warm
broth.
> the
> potentially wonderful soloists not at their best,
Generally agreed, although I believe this is Domingo's best recording
of it (unless there's something even better that's "unofficial") -- it
came at just the right time for him and he has a wonderful gleam all
through his range. I keep it mostly for that reason. I might be more
grateful for Ghiaurov's performance here if it were the only recording
of it he made, but there are several earlier ones that are better,
especially the Scala DVD with Karajan. It's still a major voice, and
there may not have been a better basso around for this music in 1979,
but he's comparatively dry-sounding and treading cautiously. I
appreciate Verrett's musical precision. She's more painstaking than
most of the competition (there's not even a trace of a slide up to the
high notes in the first phrases of the "Liber scriptus"); the weirdly
over-pronounced Latin is a minor drawback. From Ricciarelli I was
expecting more. She makes almost no impression on me.
Todd K
Richar...@gmail.com
>
> Generally agreed, although I believe this is Domingo's best recording
> of it (unless there's something even better that's "unofficial") -- it
> came at just the right time for him and he has a wonderful gleam all
> through his range. I keep it mostly for that reason. I might be more
> grateful for Ghiaurov's performance here if it were the only recording
> of it he made, but there are several earlier ones that are better,
> especially the Scala DVD with Karajan. It's still a major voice, and
> there may not have been a better basso around for this music in 1979,
> but he's comparatively dry-sounding and treading cautiously. I
> appreciate Verrett's musical precision. She's more painstaking than
> most of the competition (there's not even a trace of a slide up to the
> high notes in the first phrases of the "Liber scriptus"); the weirdly
> over-pronounced Latin is a minor drawback. From Ricciarelli I was
> expecting more. She makes almost no impression on me.
>
> Todd K
I remember reading that Abbado's first Verdi Requiem was hastily
assembled in the wake of Carlos Kleiber cancelling a Scala-based
recording of La Boheme. Ricciarelli, Domingo and Ghiaurov were probably
engaged for roles in that. It might explain Ricciarelli's timidity on
the recording; indeed of the principals I only really like Verrett.
Simon Roberts
>
>On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:18:16 GMT, "Alex Panda"
><alex138...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
>>> Besides
>>>
>>> Toscanini 1940 Live
>>> Cantelli 1955 Live
>>>
>>>
>>> What are the sublime:
>>>
>>> 1) Live recordings
>>> 2) Studio Recordings
>>
>>The live Fricsay on DG.
>>
>
>So far it has all been recommendations for live perfromances.
No it hasn't.
Simon Roberts
Oops; forgot those. The second (?; anyway, the second to be released by BBC,
with Konya etc) I would add to the list, though it doesn't sound as good as the
earlier release (which overall probably sounds better than the EMI studio
recording).
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:cFQ_f.24263$8Q3.10546
@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
Which is that, the long one or the short one?
Matthew B. Tepper
4ax.com:
Ah, thanks.
Philip Peters
That's still my favourite one.
Philip
>
>
wkas...@comcast.net
Theresa wrote:
> >The live Fricsay on DG.
>
> Who are the singers, and was it released in one of DG's boxes?
> I have Stader, Radev, Krebs, Borg/RIAS on DG, but AFAIR that's a
> studio recording.
Here's a link to the live one:
The soloists are Stader again, Dominguez, Carelli, and Sardi; it was
recorded in 1960, as I recall. I prefer the studio version, which is
rather different, but the live one is also exceptional.
Bill
Raymond Hall
The Muti (EMI) is a studio effort. However, his live performance in 1978 at
the RAH, was FAR better. Wish it had been recorded. Maybe it has been. Lucia
Popp was one of the singers.
Haven't come across any really good Buddhist conductors yet however.
Ray H
Taree
Gerard
"Philip Peters" <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> schreef in bericht
news:443c1249$0$31637$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Which one exactly? There are 2 of them.
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=7918
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=1530
Rich S.
<rayt...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>Haven't come across any really good Buddhist conductors yet however.
>
recording the Requiem.
Todd Schurk
I have a feeling he won't be getting to it either...
Rich S.
wrote:
>
No, but he did conduct it and recordings of some his live performances
(of other works) have been released commercially.
Paul Goldstein
The one with Konya is a fabulous performance; I haven't heard the other one.
--
Ad-free and proud of it.
Vaneyes
Haven't heard yours. I had the other one, the 10/10, and soon disposed
of it.
Regards
Ed Presson
"ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
> Besides
>
> Toscanini 1940 Live
> Cantelli 1955 Live
>
>
> What are the sublime:
>
> 1) Live recordings
> 2) Studio Recordings
>
a fondness for Reiner's recording on Decca/London.
Regards,
Ed Presson
david...@aol.com
"How is Abbado's version?"
Which one? The second recording was unbelievably dull, although the
booklet included with the CD's included a magnificent portrait of
Verdi.
-david gable
Paul Goldstein
You may be . . . that is for me the one real stinker among Reiner's recordings.
david...@aol.com
"Serafin/EMI, Toscanini/RCA"
Check. Check. (And Serafin can be had for a song on Naxos.) If there
were only recordings of similar vintage with Gui and Panizza.
"Markevitch/Melodram"
Is the Markevitch live, or is that the old recording with Vishnevskaya?
"Fricsay/DG (the earlier one)"
I don't know why I don't get this one. Or the other one. (One of them
has a fairly unfortunate principal trumpet.)
"Giulini/EMI"
I like this one despite Ghiaurov. Schwarzkopf and Gedda don't bother
me at all, although Miss Schwarzkopf is not remotely an idiomatic
"Italian" soprano: there's nowhere for her to be mannered and prissy
in this music . . . or at least as mannered and prissy as she is
everywhere else. Gedda mostly sounds like an angel, and I've always
loved his resorts to a half-falsetto "voix mixte." (Yes, I know that's
the definition of "mixed voice.")
"Karajan/DG (DVD, not CD)"
I like this one far better than I expected to given Karajan's presence.
"Muti/EMI (the earlier one)"
I like the earlier one, too, despite Muti's insistence on taking a
couple of passages so absurdly fast no orchestral musician could ever
expect to play at his tempo (e.g., parts of the Dies irae). Nor is the
tenor entirely ideal.
"Solti/Chicago live (L. Price, Minton, Pavarotti, Howell)."
Never heard it, but Pavarotti sounds promising: he's the only reason
to hear the studio recording with Pavarotti and Solti.
What do people think of Bernstein? I gave my copy away to a friend I
was trying to convert to classical music according to the theory that
I'd eventually replace it but I never did. Anybody heard the Philips
recording with Munteanu as tenor soloist?
-david gable
david...@aol.com
>Haven't come across any really good Buddhist conductors yet however.
Peter Serkin and Peter Lieberson are Buddhists, but they aren't
conductors.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
"I may be the only listener who retains a fondness for Reiner's
recording on Decca/London."
I love the singers and Reiner doesn't sabotage everything. I quite
like the Ingemisco.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:1144795137.065868.190370
@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
If he's a Buddhist, perhaps he eventually will, only under a different name
and in another body.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:e1hg2...@drn.newsguy.com:
I agree with you; it's just too darned slow.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:1144801637.378184.34010
@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>Haven't come across any really good Buddhist conductors yet however.
>
> Peter Serkin and Peter Lieberson are Buddhists, but they aren't
> conductors.
I'd inquire about Ozawa, but I imagine the usual bashing would ensue.
Brendan R. Wehrung
> ansermetniac <anserm...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in news:jagn32dclvq82j72til2kbnnulhj0obt8b@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> Here is some anal trivia:
>>
>> The AT 1940 and Cantelli 1955 have the same principal Flute, Fagott
>> and Tuba- Wummer, Polisi and Bell, respectively
>
> Wummer, not C. Coppola?
>
He joined the NBC Symphony in 1942, the year the Detroit Symphony (the
city where his son Francis was born 9n 1939) folded for the duration of
the war.
http://imdb.com/name/nm0178874/bio
Brendan
Brendan R. Wehrung
> On 11 Apr 2006 08:08:27 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>ansermetniac wrote:
>>> On 11 Apr 2006 07:42:09 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >ansermetniac wrote:
>>> >> On 11 Apr 2006 07:33:10 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >ansermetniac wrote:
>>> >> >> Besides
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Toscanini 1940 Live
>>> >> >> Cantelli 1955 Live
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> What are the sublime:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> 1) Live recordings
>>> >> >> 2) Studio Recordings
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Szell,January 5, 1968, Carnegie Hall,
>>> >> >Tucci,Baker,Duval,Talvela, Cleveland Orchestra,live.
>>> >>
>>> >> Is the above available for general distribution?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Abbedd
>>> >
>>> >No,it isn't I'm afraid. It was on Myto for a very short time,and that
>>> >issue is very hard to get. I hope it will show up in a general
>>> >release-but who knows. It is white hot-and truly belongs in the company
>>> >of the two you mentioned-which I totally agree with btw. Todd-not
>>> >re-Todd
>>>
>>> Here is some anal trivia:
>>>
>>> The AT 1940 and Cantelli 1955 have the same principal Flute, Fagott
>>> and Tuba- Wummer, Polisi and Bell, respectively
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And all three of those principal instruments are of supreme importance
>>in this particular work...which release of the AT 1940 sounds the best?
>
> The original reelase from M & A. The new one is done by graham newton
> so it is bound to be horrible
>
>
> Abbedd
What else has he messed up that we'd be familiar with?
Brendan
Andrew T. Kay
> In article <lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com>, ansermetniac says...
> >
> >Besides
> >
> >Toscanini 1940 Live
> >Cantelli 1955 Live
> >
> >
> >What are the sublime:
> >
> >1) Live recordings
> >2) Studio Recordings
>
To narrow it down still further, 1967 DVD, not 1984 DVD!
> Muti/EMI
> (the earlier one), and maybe Solti/Chicago live (L. Price, Minton, Pavarotti,
> Howell).
I don't know the Solti live, but my three favorites are contained
within Simon's list -- the Karajan Scala performance with that amazing
solo quartet, the first Muti/EMI, and (with some reservations)
Giulini/EMI. Caniglia is so egregiously out of tune so frequently as to
nearly wreck Serafin's for me (yes, even when she's not singing,
because I'm always either recuperating from her last contribution or
fearfully anticipating the next one); the first Fricsay/DG used to be a
favorite but now strikes me as a bit square and contained, to the point
of bloodlessness; and I've always ranked the Toscanini/RCA nearer the
low end of his recorded Verdi output, although there's good solo
singing from the men.
Todd K
Andrew T. Kay
> "Muti/EMI (the earlier one)"
>
> I like the earlier one, too, despite Muti's insistence on taking a
> couple of passages so absurdly fast no orchestral musician could ever
> expect to play at his tempo (e.g., parts of the Dies irae).
As you know I'm a fan of the good Riccardo, but he does have a history
of this sort of thing, and seems to push his brass players especially
hard. You should (if you haven't) get a load of some of the things he
gets the same orchestra to (barely) do in the contemporaneous NABUCCO.
He takes the cabaletta of Nabucco's "sanity regained" aria ("O prodi
miei," I think?) so blisteringly fast that I'm amazed the principal
trumpeter can even fit a key phrase into the tiny space allotted. It's
an exciting reading in its fashion, and I do like it better than the
other commercial recordings of that opera; I'm just glad I didn't have
to participate in the making of it.
Todd K
ansermetniac
Wehrung) wrote:
The second vesion of M & A s AT Berlioz disc featuring Harold on Italy
of 1939 and possible the M & A AT Beethvoen 9 from South America
Abbedd
Andrew T. Kay
> I'd inquire about Ozawa, but I imagine the usual bashing would ensue.
On the other hand, it might give me an opportunity to mention that I
listened to his PIQUE DAME a few days ago and again was taken by how
good it is, including his conducting. I wish I didn't have to put up
with the "mature" Atlantov's godawful bawling and blustering at one
dynamic level through the whole damn thing, in order to enjoy everyone
else. Too bad Domingo didn't take that role up a few years earlier than
he did; we could have had a real classic here. (OK, *that* would get me
bashed on a certain other group...and may even do so here.)
Todd K
Andrew T. Kay
> >>I've seen a lot of great ones listed; I may be the only listener who
> >>retains a fondness for Reiner's recording on Decca/London.
> >
> > You may be . . . that is for me the one real stinker among Reiner's
> > recordings.
>
> I agree with you; it's just too darned slow.
A shame, too, because the soloists are an attractive group and it's so
well recorded. But the original poster probably isn't as eccentric in
his taste as he thinks he is -- it does seem to be well regarded in
some quarters. The ClassicsToday critics seem to trot it out as one of
the leaders of the pack whenever they review a recording of the work.
One of their critics even once unfavorably compared one of my "short
list" picks to it. I guess to some it is 96+ minutes of bliss...
Todd K
david...@aol.com
"I've always ranked the Toscanini/RCA nearer the low end of his
recorded Verdi output, although there's good solo singing from the
men."
I have more problems with Di Stefano than with any of Toscanini's other
soloists, in part because I'm a fan. Already THIS early, he's starting
to have trouble, and each phrase is a trial and error proposition:
will he be in enough control of his latest breath of air and how he's
emitting it to project the shape he's trying to project or won't he?
Just wait and see.
I haven't listened to this set in a while and can't remember if Nelli
has any problems with the soprano part that I'm not remembering, but I
don't have the slightest objection to Nelli in principle unlike many
other people: not only was she an intense and intensely involved
singer, she was substantially more musical than many a more famous
soprano who's taken on the part (including Sutherland, Tebaldi, and
Milanov), singing as if her life depended on it and phrasing with
extreme sensitivity. Nobody seems to like her voice, but even if I
didn't like her voice, that wouldn't bother me . . . and I don't find
it offensive.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
I'm listening to Barbieri and Toscanini in the Liber scriptus right
now. She's another singer in the Toscanini set who is more consistent
than Di Stefano, and she's got every bit as much temperament as he
does. She also exhibits Domingo-like levels of musicianship here: the
Liber scriptus is very scrupulously done, and she's never boring as
Domingo can so often be. For that matter, she has a hell of a lot more
temperament and imagination than Cossotto ever dreamed of having, and
she doesn't slide up gracelessly to the last pitch at the end of the
opening line of Liber scriptus like, say, Christa Ludwig and almost
every other contralto soloist, either. (I can imagine sliding up
gracefully, but I've yet to hear it.)
-david gable
Josep Vilanova
Verdi's Requiem. I haven't listened to it for a long time though. Maybe I'll
play it again today.
J
On 12/4/06 01:27, in article
1144801637....@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "david...@aol.com"
Michael Schaffer
ansermetniac wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2006 07:49:06 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >ansermetniac wrote:
> >> On 11 Apr 2006 07:42:09 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >ansermetniac wrote:
> >> >> On 11 Apr 2006 07:33:10 -0700, "Todd Schurk" <patte...@hotmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >ansermetniac wrote:
> >> >> >> Besides
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Toscanini 1940 Live
> >> >> >> Cantelli 1955 Live
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What are the sublime:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 1) Live recordings
> >
> >> >> >> 2) Studio Recordings
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Abbedd
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Szell,January 5, 1968, Carnegie Hall,
> >> >> >Tucci,Baker,Duval,Talvela, Cleveland Orchestra,live.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is the above available for general distribution?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Abbedd
> >> >
> >> >No,it isn't I'm afraid. It was on Myto for a very short time,and that
> >> >issue is very hard to get. I hope it will show up in a general
> >> >release-but who knows. It is white hot-and truly belongs in the company
> >> >of the two you mentioned-which I totally agree with btw. Todd-not
> >> >re-Todd
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Abbedd
> >
> >We all get into trouble around here sooner or later...and remember we
> >agree about Bloom as well...I'd rather agree than not actually-I must
> >be having a good morning.
>
> But keep in mind, discussing anything with someone you agree with is
> not as stimulating as with someone who disagrees
>
> Abbedd
That sounds good. Have you read that somewhere? Very few people here
agree with any of the nosense you spout, but what results is never a
discussion, stimulating or not. In order to participate in a
discussion, you have to actually have something to say. Sorry, that's
just the way it is.
"Fuck off, troll", for example is not a contribution to a discussion.
But it is your major contribution here.
Terry Simmons
"Alex Panda" <alex138...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
> > Besides
> >
> > Toscanini 1940 Live
> > Cantelli 1955 Live
> >
> >
> > What are the sublime:
> >
> > 1) Live recordings
> > 2) Studio Recordings
>
> The live Fricsay on DG.
I would guess there would be a lot of people with a very soft spot for the
Giulini EMI recording.
--
Cheers!
Terry
Terry Simmons
"Ed Presson" <pe...@foxinternet.net> wrote:
Perhaps a bit slow at the start?
--
Cheers!
Terry
Terry Simmons
By the way, what do you think of the Shaw/Telarc? I rather like it.
--
Cheers!
Terry
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
> In article <443c3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
> "Ed Presson" <pe...@foxinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> "ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
>> > Besides
>> >
>> > Toscanini 1940 Live
>> > Cantelli 1955 Live
>> >
>> > What are the sublime:
>> >
>> > 1) Live recordings
>> > 2) Studio Recordings
>> >
>> I've seen a lot of great ones listed; I may be the only listener who
>> retains a fondness for Reiner's recording on Decca/London.
>
> Perhaps a bit slow at the start?
And continuing through to the end of the work.
Simon Roberts
david...@aol.com says...
>
>Simon says:
>
>"Serafin/EMI, Toscanini/RCA"
>
>Check. Check. (And Serafin can be had for a song on Naxos.) If there
>were only recordings of similar vintage with Gui and Panizza.
>
>"Markevitch/Melodram"
>
>Is the Markevitch live, or is that the old recording with Vishnevskaya?
The former. The same performance is also available on Tahra, but with a
different coupling. I have no idea how the sound compares.
>Anybody heard the Philips
>recording with Munteanu as tenor soloist?
Yes; he's as interesting as ever, but I've not listened to it in ages and can't
think of anything to say about it.
Simon
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
Jon Alan Conrad
> Generally agreed, although I believe this is Domingo's best recording
> of it (unless there's something even better that's "unofficial") -- it
> came at just the right time for him and he has a wonderful gleam all
> through his range.
You may be right about this being the best of 'em, although I think he
was in comparable shape for the CBS/Mehta/NYPO version not too long
afterward.
> I appreciate Verrett's musical precision. She's more painstaking than
> most of the competition (there's not even a trace of a slide up to the
> high notes in the first phrases of the "Liber scriptus");
Actually that's an example of *not* being painstaking (or of
misapplying one's efforts); the portamento in the first phrases of the
"Liber scriptus" is specifically marked in the score. That is what
slurs mean in vocal music of this period (when, as here, there is no
melisma or similar figure to explain their presence -- the slur
connects different syllables). Verrett was indeed a pioneer in erasing
this bit of idiomatic performance practice; she was doing it as early
as 1971 (or 72?), in a live Cleveland Orchestra broadcast whose other
details I no longer remember. But that T-square execution of those
phrases was certainly a shock.
I'm a great admirer of Verrett in general, and this is a relatively
small detail in her performance; still, for me it's a point against
her, not for her.
> From Ricciarelli I was
> expecting more. She makes almost no impression on me.
It is, alas, almost exactly what I would have expected of Ricciarelli.
For me, she was always a case of fine basic vocal material, haunting
timbre in the middle range -- but no real technique for controlling the
extended range needed for this music. And the Requiem really leaves no
room for hiding lack of vocal command. Perhaps in person, with her
winning presence and appearance, she was able to disguise this better.
JAC
Jon Alan Conrad
> I remember reading that Abbado's first Verdi Requiem was hastily
> assembled in the wake of Carlos Kleiber cancelling a Scala-based
> recording of La Boheme. Ricciarelli, Domingo and Ghiaurov were probably
> engaged for roles in that.
Domingo was, I recall from reading about the incident in High Fidelity
(although Pavarotti was involved at some point too, as he turns up on
the live recordings I've noticed, that have been issued of that Boheme
production). But not Ricciarelli or Ghiaurov.
The Mimi was Cotrubas, and the Musetta Popp. And Nesterenko, the
Colline, was (if memory serves) the inadvertent reason for Kleiber
cancelling the recording: visa problems kept him from showing up for
the early rehearsals.
JAC
david...@aol.com
Having listened to great chunks of Toscanini's NBC SO broadcast
performance of the Requiem, I'm not sure this is anything like Herva
Nelli's best performance. She's far better in the Ballo and Falstaff
broadcasts.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
MOI:
>Anybody heard the Philips
>recording with Munteanu as tenor soloist?
SIMON:
Yes; he's as interesting as ever, but I've not listened to it in ages
and can't
think of anything to say about it.
In a rare moment of fiscal responsibility, I resisted the temptation to
bid over $100 for the Japanese CD reissue of the Philips recording with
Munteanu . . . especially given that it was really only his performance
I was curious about.
-david gable
david...@aol.com
"the slur connects different syllables). Verrett was indeed a pioneer
in erasing this bit of idiomatic performance practice"
Jon,
Even if you're right, and what you say makes far more sense than the
alternative, the idea is to enable a smooth transition from note to
note, not a transition that egregiously calls attention to itself.
There's a big difference between a slide up that is controlled and
directed by a real musical intelligence and the uncontrolled ribbon of
sound many contraltos supply. Barbieri is well nigh ideal for
Toscanini: she doesn't attack the initial consonant of -tur until
she's landed comfortably on the pitch, but the trajectory up to the
pitch is seamless and well directed and virtually inaubible. Not that
more audibility would be undesirable if a musical intelligence on the
order of the one Barbieri displays in this movement were singing.
-david gable
ansermetniac
<david...@aol.com> wrote:
She is excellent in the Cantelli peformance
Abbedd
Jon Alan Conrad
[on the portamento at the start of "Liber scriptus"]
> the idea is to enable a smooth transition from note to
> note, not a transition that egregiously calls attention to itself.
> There's a big difference between a slide up that is controlled and
> directed by a real musical intelligence and the uncontrolled ribbon of
> sound many contraltos supply.
Sure. That's what gives us fun things to discuss: there are so many
degrees of audibility and elegance with which it can be done. Once or
twice (in my grad-student past) I complimented a singer (fellow
student) in particular on her thoughtful execution of portamento. I
would add an embarrassed "I realize this is probably a silly thing to
single out" -- and in both cases it turned out that she (and her
teacher) had put in a lot of work on that very point. And although in
theory it shouldn't call attention to itself, she was kind of glad that
somebody noticed something she had worked so hard on.
I'll have to search out that Barbieri example. I keep a mental databank
of recorded instances of exceptionally striking and tasteful uses of
this device (one is, believe it or not, Anna Moffo's "Mi chiamano Mimi"
from her complete recording -- so many sopranos slurp it up as if
they're already dying, and she has thought it through beautifully for
herself) so that I can demonstrate to skeptics what I'm talking about.
And I'm always glad to have one more good example.
JAC
Ed Presson
> >> I've seen a lot of great ones listed; I may be the only listener who
> >> retains a fondness for Reiner's recording on Decca/London.
> >
> > Perhaps a bit slow at the start?
>
> And continuing through to the end of the work.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper:
Yes, it is slow; and slow tempos are not my usual preference; but in this
case---at least for me, and apparently only me---it works. The Dies irae is
especially effective---again, for me. ...Not that I don't admire many of
the other favorites mentioned.
Regards,
Ed Presson
Michael Lehrman
news:443d8...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
[snip]
> Yes, it is slow; and slow tempos are not my usual preference; but in this
> case---at least for me, and apparently only me---it works.
>
Sorry to disappoint you, but I like the Reiner too.
ML
jrs...@aol.com
Ed Presson wrote:
> "ansermetniac" <anserm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lqen32p5quc8fnocr...@4ax.com...
> > Besides
> >
> > Toscanini 1940 Live
> > Cantelli 1955 Live
> >
> >
> > What are the sublime:
> >
> > 1) Live recordings
> > 2) Studio Recordings
> >
> a fondness for Reiner's recording on Decca/London.
And perhaps I'm the only one who is a fan of the De Sabata's on EMI
(assuming Samir hasn't yet poked his head into the discussion). Several
denizens here have bashed it. I cannot presume Ansermetniac will like
it, but it should be heard at least once, in my opinion and those who
the music slow, intense, and milked for everything it is worth will
love it.
Naturally, having "imprinted" on Toscanini, he is, ultimately, my
standard, though at some point I switched allegiance from the later to
the earlier NBC performance. The live Fricsay is a close contender, for
me as for so many others.
The Solti studio effort is a really fine performance, with some
spectacular moments. I should be clear: I meant the RCA recording.
Never heard the earlier one, and probably never will. Barenboim did a
creditable job too, actually--an underrated effort in good sound (only
if you crank it up).
I get confused when people talk about Abbado...I have one on Myto with
a starry cast of soloists from the early 70s I think, and like it quite
a bit. It may be the same as the video mentioned by someone. Or maybe
not. I can't keep track. I have the live Marketvitch on Melodram
probably liked that as much or more.
Serafin on Naxos is a great price and a wonderful performance, and I
basically agree with Ansermetniac about Cantelli, though I wish we had
better sound for him.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
Todd Schurk wrote:
> ansermetniac wrote:
> > Besides
> >
> > Toscanini 1940 Live
> > Cantelli 1955 Live
> >
> >
> > What are the sublime:
> >
> > 1) Live recordings
> > 2) Studio Recordings
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Szell,January 5, 1968, Carnegie Hall,
> Tucci,Baker,Duval,Talvela, Cleveland Orchestra,live.
Todd, I can't remember...have you heard Szell's Otello, live at the
Met? There's some fine conducting there as well.
--Jeff
Todd Schurk
I've not tackled that on purpose...guess I'm waiting for that rainy
day(though there are plenty of those as of late)-some things I just
feel the need to give some room in the future...and I'm a little afraid
of the sound...
Jon Alan Conrad
> The Solti studio effort is a really fine performance, with some
> spectacular moments. I should be clear: I meant the RCA recording.
It's ruined by a very ill-assorted bunch of soloists, though, including
a bass (a splendid artist) who isn't a bass and a mezzo who (whatever
her merits in other music, and even conceivably in this piece with a
differently balanced quartet) makes no sense alongside Leontyne Price.
Solti and the CSO fared much better in the live performance from a year
before (Simon has referred to this one being on the short-list, and I
agree): Price, Minton, Pavarotti, Howell.
> Never heard the earlier one, and probably never will.
It has 3 worthwhile soloists; unfortunately they don't include
Sutherland. And it's very well recorded in the Sofiensaal tradition.
> Barenboim did a
> creditable job too, actually--an underrated effort in good sound (only
> if you crank it up).
Is this the one with the horrendously flat singing from Marc that Simon
has mentioned?
> Serafin on Naxos is a great price and a wonderful performance
Aside from the sadly past-it Gigli and the never-had-it Caniglia (so
badly flat, I can't return to the recording). I guess it's a kind of
classic, and Stignani and Pinza are wonderful, but... man.
JAC
Richard Loeb
and tenor in that recording are not good though Jay
"Jon Alan Conrad" <con...@udel.edu> wrote in message
news:1144893150.2...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
jrs...@aol.com
Fear not the sound. It is considerably better than Szell's Tannhauser.
--Jeff
jrs...@aol.com
Jon Alan Conrad wrote:
> jrs...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > The Solti studio effort is a really fine performance, with some
> > spectacular moments. I should be clear: I meant the RCA recording.
>
> It's ruined by a very ill-assorted bunch of soloists, though, including
> a bass (a splendid artist) who isn't a bass and a mezzo who (whatever
> her merits in other music, and even conceivably in this piece with a
> differently balanced quartet) makes no sense alongside Leontyne Price.
> Solti and the CSO fared much better in the live performance from a year
> before (Simon has referred to this one being on the short-list, and I
> agree): Price, Minton, Pavarotti, Howell.
>
> > Never heard the earlier one, and probably never will.
>
> It has 3 worthwhile soloists; unfortunately they don't include
> Sutherland. And it's very well recorded in the Sofiensaal tradition.
That's nice, but not interesting to me at the moment.
>
> > Barenboim did a
> > creditable job too, actually--an underrated effort in good sound (only
> > if you crank it up).
>
> Is this the one with the horrendously flat singing from Marc that Simon
> has mentioned?
>
> > Serafin on Naxos is a great price and a wonderful performance
>
> Aside from the sadly past-it Gigli and the never-had-it Caniglia (so
> badly flat, I can't return to the recording). I guess it's a kind of
> classic, and Stignani and Pinza are wonderful, but... man.
>
> JAC
All true, yet none of the flaws you mentioned overshadowed the
considerable and unique strengths of the performances--the conductors,
their orchestras, and the individual artistry and sensitivites of the
singers (including Gigli, who is of course not to everyone's taste).
It's a matter of priorities, I guess, when faced with imperfection.
--Jeff
Michael Schaffer
Any thoughts anyone about the recent versions by Gardiner and
Harnoncourt?
jeff...@msn.com
requiem schwartzkopf dominguez gsd siepi sabata rome 6/54 emi
I've heard all the rest, but this one stood out as the most intense.
And as for the Reiner, Jussi makes it all worthwhile.
Jon Alan Conrad
> Any thoughts anyone about the recent versions by Gardiner and
> Harnoncourt?
I haven't heard the Harnoncourt and am not likely to. As for the
Gardiner... well, it's interesting to hear some of the instruments of
the type Verdi wrote for (especially the valve trombones, which make
much more sense of their parts than slide trombones can), and the
Monteverdi Choir is as magnificent as ever. But Gardiner's taste for
lightweight, low-impact, inoffensively pretty soloists pretty much
negates any possible claim to be reproducing Verdi's thoughts (his
original soprano soloist was also his favorite Aida).
Actually, JEG's soprano is the most enjoyable of his quartet:
Orgonasova is a high-placed lyric-coloratura, but a substantial one
with some color and body in her sound, so she works out well. But the
other 3 have no place in this music.
JAC
Simon Roberts
Conrad says...
Agreed; and if this recording is any indication, I don't want to hear the tenor
in any other music either. I generally like Gardiner's conducting here, and the
recorded sound is probably the best of any commercial recording, for whatever
that's worth. (I haven't heard the commercial release of Harnoncourt's, only a
broadcast of a live performance with the same cast, which I've heard once only
so far and thus am in no position to comment.)
jrs...@aol.com
jeff...@msn.com wrote:
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned:
>
> requiem schwartzkopf dominguez gsd siepi sabata rome 6/54 emi
>
> I've heard all the rest, but this one stood out as the most intense.
I'm surprised you didn't see that I mentioned it just a few messages
ago, since this recording was then greeted with the usual objections,
none of which is important enough to prevent the performance from being
one of the most powerful.
--Jeff
Matthew B. Tepper
news:1144889442.3...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
> Todd Schurk wrote:
>> ansermetniac wrote:
>> > Besides
>> >
>> > Toscanini 1940 Live
>> > Cantelli 1955 Live
>> >
>> > What are the sublime:
>> >
>> > 1) Live recordings
>> > 2) Studio Recordings
>>
>> Szell,January 5, 1968, Carnegie Hall,
>> Tucci,Baker,Duval,Talvela, Cleveland Orchestra,live.
>
> Todd, I can't remember...have you heard Szell's Otello, live at the
> Met? There's some fine conducting there as well.
Who da singers?
jrs...@aol.com
Josep Vilanova wrote:
> Celibidache was a Buddhist towards the end of his life, and he recorded the
> Verdi's Requiem. I haven't listened to it for a long time though. Maybe I'll
> play it again today.
>
Then when you're done you can say, "I haven't listened to the beginning
of his recording for a long time, though"
--Jeff
Ian Pace
with a lot of his choices of singers, whether in Bach Cantatas, Mozart
operas, or whatever.
Ian
Josep Vilanova
an interesting take on that work. Not for a first choice, but good if you
have another 11 versions of it like me (I know that lots of people here have
far more versions). It does show lots of interesting details, like for
instance in the Libera me, with a very clearly articulated choir in that
fugato passage. His sound concept of that Requiem is similar to his sound
concept for everything else: Brucknerian. It works out quite well in
passages with brass, like in the Tuba Mirum. I would think that that Tuba
Mirum, and many parts of that performance, would have been impressive if
heard live.
In the recording there is an annoying flutter, mostly obvious when listening
to headphones.
After that, for a related take, I heard bits of the last, DG, Giulini
recording. It sounds quite faster and less teutonic. Giulini soloists are
not good either, possibly the main problem in that recording.
J
On 13/4/06 17:44, in article
1144946660.0...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "jrs...@aol.com"
David Wake
Do you (or anyone) have any comments on the earlier live De Sabata
performance with Tebaldi?
It's the top recommendation on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/ehub035/requiem.htm
Thanks,
David
Michael Schaffer
Josep Vilanova wrote:
> I finally managed to listened to the whole of it. It is slow... It makes for
> an interesting take on that work. Not for a first choice, but good if you
> have another 11 versions of it like me (I know that lots of people here have
> far more versions). It does show lots of interesting details, like for
> instance in the Libera me, with a very clearly articulated choir in that
> fugato passage. His sound concept of that Requiem is similar to his sound
> concept for everything else: Brucknerian. It works out quite well in
> passages with brass, like in the Tuba Mirum. I would think that that Tuba
> Mirum, and many parts of that performance, would have been impressive if
> heard live.
> In the recording there is an annoying flutter, mostly obvious when listening
> to headphones.
> After that, for a related take, I heard bits of the last, DG, Giulini
> recording. It sounds quite faster and less teutonic. Giulini soloists are
> not good either, possibly the main problem in that recording.
I never heard that recording, but I heard the performance live when
they recorded it (I don't know if it is an actual live recording, but
if not, then they recorded it at the same time as the concerts), and I
had the same impressions. I found the singers weak and very wobbly.
Many times, it was extremely hard to hear the harmonic progressions
when they were singing.
Josep Vilanova
On 14/4/06 01:05, in article
1144973142....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, "Michael Schaffer"
<ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I never heard that recording, but I heard the performance live when
> they recorded it (I don't know if it is an actual live recording, but
> if not, then they recorded it at the same time as the concerts), and I
> had the same impressions. I found the singers weak and very wobbly.
> Many times, it was extremely hard to hear the harmonic progressions
> when they were singing.
I think is a studio recording. The singers are very weak, but I like the
monumental conception that Giulini had of the work, and also the amazing
sound of the BP. They played exceedingly well for him in that recording.
It's difficult to find a recording of the Verdi's Requiem that has good
soloists and a good orchestral playing (I don't think I have any recording
that is fully satisfying in all aspects). I tend to like slow tempi in that
work (although I also like a fast performance like the one with Serafin). In
any case, I don't think I have a performance I could say is the one I like
most above all others.
j
Michael Schaffer
Josep Vilanova wrote:
> On 14/4/06 01:05, in article
> 1144973142....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com, "Michael Schaffer"
> <ms1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I never heard that recording, but I heard the performance live when
> > they recorded it (I don't know if it is an actual live recording, but
> > if not, then they recorded it at the same time as the concerts), and I
> > had the same impressions. I found the singers weak and very wobbly.
> > Many times, it was extremely hard to hear the harmonic progressions
> > when they were singing.
>
> I think is a studio recording. The singers are very weak, but I like the
> monumental conception that Giulini had of the work, and also the amazing
> sound of the BP. They played exceedingly well for him in that recording.
> It's difficult to find a recording of the Verdi's Requiem that has good
> soloists and a good orchestral playing (I don't think I have any recording
> that is fully satisfying in all aspects).
How about this one?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GKA/qid=1144994243/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-9425343-2859130?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174
It looks good on paper, Tomowa-Sintow, Baltsa, Carreras, van Dam,
Wiener Philharmoniker. And it's not just Karajan, it's KARAJAN GOLD! It
*must* be good. this recording has probably been already discussed
here, I haven't read the whole thread.
You are right, I remember the orchestral playing was awesome in those
concerts. The Dies Irae was very impressive. The trumpets played from
different corners of the room. I know, that's the way it is supposed to
be, so it's nothing special, but it was still very impressive. The
lyrical sections were great too, the opening floating in the rrom. The
choir sounded great too. I think it was the Ernst-Senff-Chor, a highly
trained (by Ernst Senff) amateur choir in Berlin Giulini was very fond
of. Then Giulini himself of course. This should have been a fantastic
concert. I remember looking forward it for a long time since I knew the
very impressive earlier recording he conducted. But the singers spoilt
it pretty massively. I remember especially Cole and Estes sounded
really bad "lalalalalal" like Kermit the Frog after a heavy night of
drinking. I never even listened to the recording although I have more
or less all the recordings he made in that era (plus many from other
periods), especially the ones made in Vienna and Berlin, because I saw
him live often then and those recordings are great memories.
Josep Vilanova
>
> How about this one?
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GKA/qid=1144994243/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/1
> 04-9425343-2859130?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174
> It looks good on paper, Tomowa-Sintow, Baltsa, Carreras, van Dam,
> Wiener Philharmoniker. And it's not just Karajan, it's KARAJAN GOLD! It
> *must* be good. this recording has probably been already discussed
> here, I haven't read the whole thread.
It does look good, I wonder what other people think about it. I have the
Karajan DVD with Pavarotti, that is really good, but none of his other
recordings of this work. I have a problem with Carreras in the Requiem. I
got his recording of this work with Abbado and he is awful. His voice was
already in full decline at that time and he struggles with the high
passages. More annoyingly, he uses some 'theatrical' effects to fake
emotion, like in the Ingemisco, that I find quite irritating. He doesn't
sound really involved in what he is singing, something you can never say
with people like Di Stefano.
>
> You are right, I remember the orchestral playing was awesome in those
> concerts. The Dies Irae was very impressive. The trumpets played from
> different corners of the room. I know, that's the way it is supposed to
> be, so it's nothing special, but it was still very impressive. The
> lyrical sections were great too, the opening floating in the rrom. The
> choir sounded great too. I think it was the Ernst-Senff-Chor, a highly
> trained (by Ernst Senff) amateur choir in Berlin Giulini was very fond
> of. Then Giulini himself of course. This should have been a fantastic
> concert. I remember looking forward it for a long time since I knew the
> very impressive earlier recording he conducted. But the singers spoilt
> it pretty massively. I remember especially Cole and Estes sounded
> really bad "lalalalalal" like Kermit the Frog after a heavy night of
> drinking.
They sound a bit less bad in the recording. And the sound of the BP is
captured quite well, that amazing string sound in particular. He had a
conception of that Requiem intensely devotional and he managed to convey
that quite well to the orchestra but not that well to the singers.
He was not that laisez-faire with them though. During the same time you saw
him, he took the Requiem in tour and played it in Barcelona. At the last
minute the tenor decided he was too ill to sing and the management had to
rush to find another tenor. They found one who just sang a Mozart Requiem
but who didn't have much experience with the Verdi. Giulini took him to
another room, while the public was already in the auditory and went with him
through all the score. He kept the public waiting for like half an hour...
j
Michael Schaffer
Josep Vilanova wrote:
> >
> > How about this one?
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GKA/qid=1144994243/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/1
> > 04-9425343-2859130?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174
> > It looks good on paper, Tomowa-Sintow, Baltsa, Carreras, van Dam,
> > Wiener Philharmoniker. And it's not just Karajan, it's KARAJAN GOLD! It
> > *must* be good. this recording has probably been already discussed
> > here, I haven't read the whole thread.
>
>
> It does look good, I wonder what other people think about it. I have the
> Karajan DVD with Pavarotti, that is really good, but none of his other
> recordings of this work. I have a problem with Carreras in the Requiem. I
> got his recording of this work with Abbado and he is awful. His voice was
> already in full decline at that time and he struggles with the high
> passages. More annoyingly, he uses some 'theatrical' effects to fake
> emotion, like in the Ingemisco, that I find quite irritating. He doesn't
> sound really involved in what he is singing, something you can never say
> with people like Di Stefano.
OK, how about this then:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000001GHY/qid=1145012013/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9425343-2859130?s=classical&v=glance&n=5174
I don't know who Carlo Cossuta is, but the rest looks really good on
paper too, good singers, good orchestra, and again Karajan who I think
had a special hand for Italian music. It isn't KARAJAN GOLD though.
The cover image looks horrible though. Not only is it kitschy, where
the two mirrored heads meet in the middle it looks like a vulva.
> > You are right, I remember the orchestral playing was awesome in those
> > concerts. The Dies Irae was very impressive. The trumpets played from
> > different corners of the room. I know, that's the way it is supposed to
> > be, so it's nothing special, but it was still very impressive. The
> > lyrical sections were great too, the opening floating in the rrom. The
> > choir sounded great too. I think it was the Ernst-Senff-Chor, a highly
> > trained (by Ernst Senff) amateur choir in Berlin Giulini was very fond
> > of. Then Giulini himself of course. This should have been a fantastic
> > concert. I remember looking forward it for a long time since I knew the
> > very impressive earlier recording he conducted. But the singers spoilt
> > it pretty massively. I remember especially Cole and Estes sounded
> > really bad "lalalalalal" like Kermit the Frog after a heavy night of
> > drinking.
>
>
> They sound a bit less bad in the recording. And the sound of the BP is
> captured quite well, that amazing string sound in particular. He had a
> conception of that Requiem intensely devotional and he managed to convey
> that quite well to the orchestra but not that well to the singers.
> He was not that laisez-faire with them though. During the same time you saw
> him, he took the Requiem in tour and played it in Barcelona. At the last
> minute the tenor decided he was too ill to sing and the management had to
> rush to find another tenor. They found one who just sang a Mozart Requiem
> but who didn't have much experience with the Verdi. Giulini took him to
> another room, while the public was already in the auditory and went with him
> through all the score. He kept the public waiting for like half an hour...
I am not at all surprised. Giulini was the real thing, he did nothing
for show and always presented true substance and quality. The concerts
I saw with him are among the greatest memories I have of live
performances.
> j
Jon Alan Conrad
> OK, how about this then:
[Karajan/DG with Freni, Ludwig, Cossutta, Ghiaurov]
> I don't know who Carlo Cossuta is, but the rest looks really good on
> paper too, good singers, good orchestra, and again Karajan who I think
> had a special hand for Italian music.
I can't agree on that last point; several of his Verdi recordings,
including this one, come off to me as (exquisite) exercises in sonority
and texture, neglecting the very important elements of phrasing and
momentrum (not a matter of speed). That is not true of the famous film,
now on DVD, and for me that is by far the preferable HvK Verdi Requiem,
more persuasive than any of the audio-only versions.
That said, this is a VERY fine quartet of singers, and I own and listen
to this recording just for the pleasure of hearing all of them:
splendid and characterful individually, blending to fine ensemble
effect. This was Freni's first adventure into the heavier Verdi
repertory for which her voice was really not built, but she was
recorded sufficiently early in the process that no ill effects are yet
audible, and she does have a lot to offer commitment-wise and
otherwise. Carlo Cossutta is (was, I guess) an impressive
almost-dramatic tenor who I always thought should have had a bigger
career. He was an equal participant in the best Trovatore of my life
(Covent Garden 1973: Mackerras, Arroyo, Cossotto), he's superb on this
Verdi Requiem, and he's a real contender as Otello on Solti's studio
recording.
JAC
jrs...@aol.com
Not really. I'll have to listen to it again, and though I thought maybe
it was preferable in many ways to the EMI, especially if one wants
quicker tempi and Tebaldi. I remember Tebaldi doing some nice things,
but there were significant sonic impediments (on the Urania release, at
least, and according to the ng archives, on Arkadia cds or earlier lp
releases). You can't really win with this recording--you can only get a
whiff of the music.
--Jeff