Nudity in Opera dvds
Ogleman
eg
Handel, Alcina, cond Hacker, Catherine Naglestad wears a see-through
top and gets her right tit out about 1hr 32mins into the disc
Zimmermann, Die Soldaten, cond Kontarsky, lovely clothes-ripping-off
scene with full nudity at 1hr 37mins and a bit more right at the end,
1hr 48mins.
any more?
Josep Vilanova
Isn't Malfitano naked in Salome?
J
On 18/6/05 10:34 am, in article
1119087292....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Ogleman"
La Donna Mobile
There is nudity in Rigoletto (also CG) but solely amongst the Poor Bloody Infantry.
I also saw reference to a Thais that was released last year - perhaps a search of Opera-L's archives would yield more specific information..
There was a very bizarre Dutch film of Rigoletto that was shown on the TV a few months ago. I started watching but the singing was really quite appalling (I got as far as Quest o quella, which was crooned in an approximation to pitch. DON'T GO RUINING THAT ARIA!). It started round a swimming pool and the men were wearing the worst sort of swimming trunks. It brought back bad memories of the worst sort of mid-90s package holiday to the Med. I really wouldn't recommend it except in a car-crash sort of way. To me it is the ultimate Euro-Trash, with musical values mattering nought.
dtritter
> Isn't Malfitano naked in Salome?
>
>
> J
>
vocally and otherwise. bareassed broad connoisseurs in the hall can be
heard chanting "put it on. put it on." it was hard to determine the
author of this tasteless imbecility, malfitano, the director, or the
company that released the garbage for public consumption.
Ian Pace
"Ogleman" <wfh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119087292....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
without some tits and bums making an appearance at some point.
Ian
Ortrud
Halloween at her house!
-Ortrud Jones
dtritter
have you a mirror, shitforbrains?
it might compensate for an i.q. of 27 (to overestimate by far)
eat shit and die.
mdhjwh
Let's pray then nothing surfaces from Freeman staring Pavarotti.
>
> Ian
Handelmaniac
Turandot from Antwerp.(Antwarped???)...FRONTAL Prince of Persia on
stage.This is a totally UNCUT performance,in more ways than one.
Salome from Amsterdam Executioner is nude...this is a real
double-header
Aarhus Denmark Rheingold..The "gold" is a young dude..and wait till
you see the Rhinemaidens "play " with his.....(Weiche...Weiche..very
Weiche..)
Rigoletto CG w.Gavanelli...Poor Monterone has to see his virginal
daughter laying..lying down with a dude on top of her...
Salome/..Maria Ewing really takes it all off.
Puritani with Rosen and Handelman....well..we can DREAM,can't we??????/
CH
Ogleman
Ogleman wrote:
> Is there any sort of database of nudity in opera dvds?
>
> eg
>
> Handel, Alcina, cond Hacker, Catherine Naglestad wears a see-through
> top and gets her right tit out about 1hr 32mins into the disc
Uh, Massenet, Thais, cond Viotti, lots of toples dancers and Eva Mei
wears a see-through top and gets her *left* tit out. The top catches on
the nipple, looks painful...
What's with these people getting one breast out? Do they get paid by
the breast? Or do they want to say they didn't go topless? Or is it to
do with suspense? Though Naglestad's left nipple does come out very
briefly too...
capa0...@aol.com
the breast?
Don't be, um, disappointed. Apparently, unlike these fine performers,
you're not familiar with Congreve's observation that
"Music hath charms to soothe A savage breast"
Not both savage breasts.
Pat, the semi-voluptuary
Matthew B. Tepper
in news:1119107887.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Pat, how I've missed you!
Wasn't there a video of a production of Prokofiev's _Flaming Angel_ where
the orgy scene shows lots of naked, bald-headed nuns? One such chorister
gets so much screen time I wonder if she was the cameraman's girlfriend or
something like that.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!
LJO
<capa0...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119107887.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for not making a half-assed remark.
Josep Vilanova
You know, there was a production of Salome with Caballe in her later years
that was meant to show her with a suggestive leotard type of clothing. She
rebelled and came to the production with her own clothing, quite wisely I
would say.
J
On 18/6/05 11:14 am, in article QtSse.19852$a5....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
Josep Vilanova
years that was meant to show her with a suggestive leotard type of clothing.
slimmer, forgetting that he couldn't possibly compress much -not to say her
neck and face. She rebelled and came to the production with some different
clothing of her own, quite wisely I would say.
J
On 18/6/05 11:14 am, in article QtSse.19852$a5....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net,
"Ian Pace" <i...@ianpace.com> wrote:
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Ditto David McVicar. And David Pountney. And David Alden.
Hmmmmm.
A theory is forming.....
Perhaps all these branch Davidians have a female flesh fetish ( odd, because
at least half of them wouldn't know which end was up, femme-wise, if it
winked at them in broad daylight.)
SJT, who wouldn't either..
PS. Birtwistle's "Gawain" was televised at least once from Covent Garden,
but I can't remember if that was of the original performances, or the first
revival, which is of significance to the boy totty fanciers among us, since
first time out the - ritually stripped, washed, dried and dressed up again
on top of the prompt box - lead role was sung by Francois LeRoux, proving
once again that the French are all talk and very little show, whilst the
even slower-paced revival went to the aptly-named Will Hartmann, who made a
most impressive case for the outstanding superiority of German sausage. DVD
transfer pronto, per favore.
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Production by - wait for it - DAVID Freeman, mounted, so to speak,
conjointly by the Kirov and Covent Garden. I forget whose got televised, but
ours had more naked men than women. This is England, after all.
SJT, stiff upper etc.
mdhjwh
Stephen Jay-Taylor wrote:
> Snip<.......... lead role was sung by Francois LeRoux, proving
> once again that the French are all talk and very little show, whilst the
> even slower-paced revival went to the aptly-named Will Hartmann, who made a
> most impressive case for the outstanding superiority of German sausage. DVD
> transfer pronto, per favore.
One gathers you to be a connoisseur of such with wide experience?
A. Brain
news:d92crt$872$1...@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Well, I see that the notorious Peter Sellars productions of
Mozart are now out on DVD.
Near-nudity. Definitely the best version where DG and Leporello
are played by African-American twins.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
Stephen Jay-Taylor
in the fullness of time, lead one to acclamation as a connoisseur in such
matters does indeed presuppose a certain width. Dear me yes.
SJT, eyes moist at the memory........
mdhjwh
Only memories? Sad when we get to that stage petal.
Ortrud
-Ortrud Jones
dtritter wrote:
>
> eat shit and die.
.
capa0...@aol.com
>>Thanks for not making a half-assed remark.
===================
You're welcome.
I was reared to believe that keeping one's eye on the bottom line is a
fundamental trait of all true gentlemen.
Pat
Dave Cook
There's a DVD that uses the Mr. and Mrs. Vishnevskaya recording of Lady
Macbeth of Mtensk as its soundtrack and that features plenty of nudity.
Lady Macbeth is played by a very hot redhead.
Dave Cook
Richard Schultz
: Uh, Massenet, Thais, cond Viotti, lots of toples dancers and Eva Mei
: wears a see-through top and gets her *left* tit out. The top catches on
: the nipple, looks painful...
I vaguely remember having seen a televised performance of _Tannhaeuser_
that featured naked or nearly-naked dancers in the Venusberg scene.
I also once saw a bit (so to speak) of a performance of _The Tales of
Hofmann_ on TV that, IIRC, had dancers wearing fewer articles of clothing
than one normally associates with the music of Offenbach.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler
Brendan R. Wehrung
Sound like the old National Geograpahic, and Time used to sneak a peek in
once per issue in the 60's.
Brendan
--
Brendan R. Wehrung
But you only buy them for the music, right?
Brendan
--
Robert Marshall
> In rec.music.classical.recordings Ogleman <wfh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>: Uh, Massenet, Thais, cond Viotti, lots of toples dancers and Eva
>: Mei wears a see-through top and gets her *left* tit out. The top
>: catches on the nipple, looks painful...
>
> I vaguely remember having seen a televised performance of
> _Tannhaeuser_ that featured naked or nearly-naked dancers in the
> Venusberg scene.
I think there was a televised version of Parsifal that had nude flower
maidens in Act 2
Robert
--
La grenouille songe..dans son chāteau d'eau
Josep Vilanova
I saw a performance of Tannhauser in Barcelona where Tanhauser itself was
naked at the beginning, running around and climbing a sort of a wall.
Considering that the singer was a not terribly youthful-looking Rene Kollo,
what they did is using a local young man to do the nakedness and the
climbing and then when the wall opened they showed an already fully dressed
Kollo.
Josep
On 19/6/05 6:17 am, in article d92v56$agm$7...@news.iucc.ac.il, "Richard
Josep Vilanova
Salome but then I remembered that was not the Strauss Salome, but the
Massenet one. Oh well.
j
On 18/6/05 10:42 pm, in article BEDA53C4.99A0%josepv...@hotmail.com,
dtritter
what's this "us," shitforbrains?
you have no friend, companion, lover or acquaintance. the contrary
notion is one of the purest emetics known to contemporary medicine.
Minty
and rarely does an opera go by without some nudity, or near-nudity in
it.
The best was in Der Freischutz, during an bizarre episode which seemed
to be set in a WWI battlefield, with a naked woman running round the
stage in between the squaddies.
At the moment there seems to be a thing for male characters to strip
down to their boxers on stage. They do tend to be the more attractive
ones, too, so not complaining at all!
Minty
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:slrndb9r0e....@localhost.localdomain:
Perhaps that's because Shostakovich's third wife, his widow, is a redhead.
(I'm not making that up; I've seen her in person.)
Matthew B. Tepper
Yes, the weird Syberberg version has them topless and painted blue.
Ortrud
Fool. We are universally joined in our dislike of your aged wrinkly
ass.
Leave US. You smell something putrid, geezer.
-Ortrud Jones
Mark D Lew
Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> Wasn't there a video of a production of Prokofiev's _Flaming Angel_ where
> the orgy scene shows lots of naked, bald-headed nuns? One such chorister
> gets so much screen time I wonder if she was the cameraman's girlfriend or
> something like that.
I think that might be the SFO production. Typically at SFO, the real
nudity is dancers while the chorus gets fake nudity.
Same idea in the SFO Mefistofele.
The proportion of the SFO chorus members whom you'd want to see naked
is higher than you might expect -- but still well short of 100%.
mdl
Stephen Jay-Taylor
SJT, quite certain, since he was there.
Rolf
they act a "party" at the Gargonza family. The ladies where
see-troughs.......... (late '80s or early 90's)
rolf
mdhjwh
Minty wrote:
>
> At the moment there seems to be a thing for male characters to strip
> down to their boxers on stage. They do tend to be the more attractive
> ones, too, so not complaining at all!
>
Boxers- YUK! Can't we at least have jock straps if we don't get to see
all the wobbly bits?
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1119254926.8...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I have a vcd of the consort of musicke, including Emma Kirkby, where
> they act a "party" at the Gargonza family. The ladies where
> see-troughs.......... (late '80s or early 90's)
Isn't Kirkby wearing a chador nowadays?
Dana Hill
news:Xns96795B709C9...@207.217.125.201...
>
> Wasn't there a video of a production of Prokofiev's _Flaming Angel_ where
> the orgy scene shows lots of naked, bald-headed nuns? One such chorister
> gets so much screen time I wonder if she was the cameraman's girlfriend or
> something like that.
>
I bought this DVD from MDT a few months back. After it didn't arrive for
about a month I wrote to them, and they sent another one, which arrived. I
miss ordering from them.
In any case, the DVD isn't Region 1 or 0, but it plays fine on my code- and
region-free player. In your face, MPAA.
--
Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
Photography: www.danajohnhill.com
Personal: www.danajohnhill.org
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:d96rdo$q4a$1...@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu:
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns96795B709C9...@207.217.125.201...
>>
>> Wasn't there a video of a production of Prokofiev's _Flaming Angel_
>> where the orgy scene shows lots of naked, bald-headed nuns? One such
>> chorister gets so much screen time I wonder if she was the cameraman's
>> girlfriend or something like that.
>
> I bought this DVD from MDT a few months back. After it didn't arrive
> for about a month I wrote to them, and they sent another one, which
> arrived. I miss ordering from them.
>
> In any case, the DVD isn't Region 1 or 0, but it plays fine on my code-
> and region-free player. In your face, MPAA.
Purchases such as this are a big part of the reason I too bought a code-free
and region-free player. For example you can get Kubrick's actual cut of
"Eyes Wide Shut" from European sources, and not have to make do with the
censored one that the studio claimed was "Stan's original vision."
Dana Hill
>
> Purchases such as this are a big part of the reason I too bought a
> code-free
> and region-free player. For example you can get Kubrick's actual cut of
> "Eyes Wide Shut" from European sources, and not have to make do with the
> censored one that the studio claimed was "Stan's original vision."
>
To become code- and region-free, did your player require any modification
that necessitated opening the cover, or, like mine, was it a simple series
of keystrokes on the remote control?
graham
>
> Purchases such as this are a big part of the reason I too bought a
> code-free
> and region-free player. For example you can get Kubrick's actual cut of
> "Eyes Wide Shut" from European sources, and not have to make do with the
> censored one that the studio claimed was "Stan's original vision."
>
Graham
Stephen Jay-Taylor
which, if you play more than three or four times on a machine numerically
over-ridden - via remote - to be region-free, will in fact "lock" onto
whatever you happen to be playing and stay there. For good. The only
effective way of dealing with region coding is to have the player either de-
or re-chipped, to bypass the recognition hardware inside : and this is
indeed a cover-off, nuts and bolts, guarantee-invalidating procedure. Like
it matters.
The light at the end of this particular tunnel is that the European Union
and Australia are taking the US and Hollywood to the World Trade
Organisation to have region-coding declared an illegal restraint of free
trade, a claim it is widely believed they'll win. Good.
SJT, knee-deep in Region 1 DVDs
graham
"Stephen Jay-Taylor" <sjayt...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d97a4o$63v$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Matthew B. Tepper
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns967B81B8818...@207.217.125.201...
>>
>> Purchases such as this are a big part of the reason I too bought a
>> code-free and region-free player. For example you can get Kubrick's
>> actual cut of "Eyes Wide Shut" from European sources, and not have to make
>> do with the censored one that the studio claimed was "Stan's original
>> vision."
>>
>
> To become code- and region-free, did your player require any modification
> that necessitated opening the cover, or, like mine, was it a simple series
> of keystrokes on the remote control?
The latter; I bought an early-make Apex AD-600A, with its "hidden menu."
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
Again, however, "like it matters." Illegal or not, they'll keep trying.
> SJT, knee-deep in Region 1 DVDs
--
George Murnu
news:1119182379.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Haven't seen most of the DVDs mentioned, but I'm a regular at the ENO
> and rarely does an opera go by without some nudity, or near-nudity in
> it.
Which of course means that parents cannot take children with them and then
some idiots are wondering why the audience is getting older and older.
Don't get me wrong, I am no prude, but I do believe that early exposure of
children to music - including live performance - are essential for building
new audiences.
Regards,
George
Jean-Pierre Raffarin
Ogleman wrote:
> Is there any sort of database of nudity in opera dvds?
Nobody has of course mentioned the famous Festival of Aix-en-Provence
production of the Monteverdi Rentree d'Ulysse dans sa patrie conducted
by William Christie and produced by Adrian Noble. Fragilite humaine
appears completely at hair as we say in France, which is particularly
noticeable when he is picked up by Temps and shaken about a bit.
Amicalement,
J-P R.
mdhjwh
George Murnu wrote:
> "Minty" <mi...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119182379.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Haven't seen most of the DVDs mentioned, but I'm a regular at the ENO
> > and rarely does an opera go by without some nudity, or near-nudity in
> > it.
>
> Which of course means that parents cannot take children with them and then
> some idiots are wondering why the audience is getting older and older.
> Don't get me wrong, I am no prude, but I do believe that early exposure of
> children to music - including live performance - are essential for building
> new audiences.
>
>
And I believe children's early exposure to nudity is essential in
building attitudes devoid of neurotic prudery.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
Well, there's a big difference between the safe environment of a family-
friendly nudist resort, and a sordid Eurotrash opera production such as the
one which begins with the chorus in a line of toilet stalls.
Dan Koren
news:oLidnT15t8U...@rcn.net...
>
> Which of course means that parents cannot take
> children with them and then some idiots are
> wondering why the audience is getting older
> and older.
Do you consider 18+ "old"?
dk
Mark D Lew
<g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> wrote:
> But, judging from Canadians' experiences, the US will ignore the ruling.
Surely you don't mean to suggest that the U.S. government would flout
international law!
mdl
Mark D Lew
<g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> wrote:
> But why would one want to watch this awful movie more than once?
Not the whole movie. Just Nicole Kidman taking her clothes off.
mdl
REG
international law?
"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:210620050236536831%mark...@earthlink.net...
Lasse
Ogleman wrote:
> Is there any sort of database of nudity in opera dvds?
> 1hr 48mins.
>
> any more?
It's would be so funny with americans and nudity if it were'nt so sad.
Why don't watch porn if you want to se nudity and opera when you want
to see opera?
r/l
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:210620050238111526%mark...@earthlink.net:
Even the little clip which circulated beforehand, of her standing nude in
front of the mirror, waggling her bare bottom to the music, is worth it.
James Kahn
I think his point is that if kids don't go to the opera
and develop an interest in it when they are <18, they
are less likely to go when they are older. In other words,
these productions are not good for replacing the current
aging audience with the next generation. Not sure if
that theory is right, but it's worth considering.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
Brendan R. Wehrung
The current administration things they ARE the law, and you'd better
follow it or getouta town. Whomever's got the tin star rules, remember?
Brendan
--
Johannes Roehl
> In <42b7a003$1...@news.meer.net> "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>"George Murnu" <gmu...@erols.com> wrote in message
>>news:oLidnT15t8U...@rcn.net...
>>
>>>Which of course means that parents cannot take
>>>children with them and then some idiots are
>>>wondering why the audience is getting older
>>>and older.
>
>>Do you consider 18+ "old"?
>
> I think his point is that if kids don't go to the opera
> and develop an interest in it when they are <18, they
> are less likely to go when they are older. In other words,
> these productions are not good for replacing the current
> aging audience with the next generation. Not sure if
> that theory is right, but it's worth considering.
I don't want to judge nudity in opera (I think it should be decided for
each particular case, if it is appropriate and makes artistic sense),
but opera in general isn't for children (of course there are some
exceptions like that space invaders piece by Menotti).
It's a grown-up art form for grown ups. Many operas contain murder,
blackmail, adultery, attempted or successful rape (or at least forms of
sexual harrassment) anyway. If kids are old enough to deal with that
kind of stuff in the movies or on TV they won't become blind by some
nudity on stage.
But of course it should be made clear to parents in adavance, if nudity,
violence etc. is to be expected on stage, so they can decide whether to
take the kids along.
Johannes
Josep Vilanova
I just remember a film version of Boris Godunov. I think Boris was Ruggero
Raimondi and the director was Joseph Losey. If I remember correctly there
were some scenes of nudity. I vastly preferred Losey's version of Don
Giovanni though.
j
La Donna Mobile
The simple answer to your simple point is an expression I paraphrase: "The difference between erotica and porn is the difference between what excites me and what offends me."
There may be people who are interested in nudity in opera because of the context of the music, which can be extremely erotic; or because they are turned on by the (unexpected) idea of something 'shocking' and 'daring' in an artform they (incorrectly) take to be stuffy and conservative; or because, as opera fans, they would far rather see people they like and admire than some anonymous talentless airhead. I rather think that there is accessible porn in the USA. Assuming all the posters so far in this thread are from the USA, which they're not as it happens, I think it beggars belief that they are searching out opera nudity as desperate alternative to the porn they have heard is available on every street corner everywhere that isn't America.
Other than Dana being dangerously close to Off Topic, why am I the only woman on this thread?
-- http://www.madmusingsof.me.uk/weblog/ http://www.geraldine-curtis.me.uk/photoblog/
Jim Paul
Stephen Jay-Taylor wrote:
> No. It was ours/the Kirov's.
>
> SJT, quite certain, since he was there.
Same production played in San Francisco.
mdhjwh
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> "mdhjwh" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in
> news:1119328454.5...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > George Murnu wrote:
> >> "Minty" <mi...@mail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1119182379.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Haven't seen most of the DVDs mentioned, but I'm a regular at the ENO
> >> > and rarely does an opera go by without some nudity, or near-nudity in
> >> > it.
> >>
> >> Which of course means that parents cannot take children with them and
> >> then some idiots are wondering why the audience is getting older and
> >> older. Don't get me wrong, I am no prude, but I do believe that early
> >> exposure of children to music - including live performance - are
> >> essential for building new audiences.
> >>
> > And I believe children's early exposure to nudity is essential in
> > building attitudes devoid of neurotic prudery.
>
> Well, there's a big difference between the safe environment of a family-
> friendly nudist resort, and a sordid Eurotrash opera production such as the
> one which begins with the chorus in a line of toilet stalls.
>
The Deconstructionists have a lot to answer for.
Steven de Mena
> Mark D Lew <mark...@earthlink.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:210620050238111526%mark...@earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <qNFte.47600$El.41868@pd7tw1no>, graham
>><g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> But why would one want to watch this awful movie more than once?
>>
>> Not the whole movie. Just Nicole Kidman taking her clothes off.
>
> Even the little clip which circulated beforehand, of her standing nude in
> front of the mirror, waggling her bare bottom to the music, is worth it.
Which movie is this? :)
I read through the thread and for some reason didn't see the name of the
film.
Steve
capa0...@aol.com
Nothing could be further from the youth.
Pat
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:IN-dnfAVjP2...@comcast.com:
Go up three. It's "Eyes Wide Shut." And her bare bottom is NICE.
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:3hrfs3F...@individual.net:
> James Kahn schrieb:
>> In <42b7a003$1...@news.meer.net> "Dan Koren" <dank...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>>"George Murnu" <gmu...@erols.com> wrote in message
>>>news:oLidnT15t8U...@rcn.net...
>>>
>>>> Which of course means that parents cannot take children with them and
>>>> then some idiots are wondering why the audience is getting older and
>>>> older.
>>
>>> Do you consider 18+ "old"?
>>
>> I think his point is that if kids don't go to the opera and develop an
>> interest in it when they are <18, they are less likely to go when they
>> are older. In other words, these productions are not good for replacing
>> the current aging audience with the next generation. Not sure if that
>> theory is right, but it's worth considering.
>
> I don't want to judge nudity in opera (I think it should be decided for
> each particular case, if it is appropriate and makes artistic sense), but
> opera in general isn't for children (of course there are some exceptions
> like that space invaders piece by Menotti).
You mean _Amahl and the Night Visitors_? ;--) (Yes, I know perfectly well
that you mean _Help! Help! the Globolinks!_, which I think at its premiere
shared a double-bill with the aforementioned Christmas work.)
> It's a grown-up art form for grown ups. Many operas contain murder,
> blackmail, adultery, attempted or successful rape (or at least forms of
> sexual harrassment) anyway. If kids are old enough to deal with that
> kind of stuff in the movies or on TV they won't become blind by some
> nudity on stage.
Are most opera plots (let's set aside the most sordid of the sordid ones)
*that* much worse than the sonic sewage which is poured into kids' ears
these days?
> But of course it should be made clear to parents in adavance, if nudity,
> violence etc. is to be expected on stage, so they can decide whether to
> take the kids along.
How about kids who get taken to see _The Magic Flute_ as their first opera,
which is what happened to me when I was almost 10?
Mark
news:Xns967CAD2C021...@207.217.125.201:
> "Steven de Mena" <dem...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:IN-dnfAVjP2...@comcast.com:
>
>> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns967C4F2AA27...@207.217.125.201...
>>> Mark D Lew <mark...@earthlink.net> appears to have caused the
>>> following letters to be typed in
>>> news:210620050238111526%mark...@earthlink.net:
>>>
>> Which movie is this? :)
>>
>> I read through the thread and for some reason didn't see the name of
>> the film.
>
> Go up three. It's "Eyes Wide Shut." And her bare bottom is NICE.
The butt swinging scene is from the trailer to the film, in case you're
interested in searching for it. Or one of the trailers; I recall it being
played at some big theater owners conference -- COMDEX or something like
that -- a few month's before the film opened.
--
Mark
x = 123 in email address
Richard Schultz
: Even the little clip which circulated beforehand, of her standing nude in
contrast what happens in the final shot of the final movie that Hitchcock
directed with what happens in the final shot of the final movie that
Kubrick directed.
Slightly more on topic, I think that Kubrick was one of the true geniuses
at the use of classical music as background music in his films, the one
exception coming to mind being that I've never been able to handle the
Schubert in _Barry Lyndon_. Woody Allen is another master at finding
classical music to match his films -- think of the Prokofiev in _Love and
Death_ or the Schubert G major quartet in _Crimes and Misdemeanors_.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Richard Schultz
:> But of course it should be made clear to parents in adavance, if nudity,
:> violence etc. is to be expected on stage, so they can decide whether to
:> take the kids along.
:
: How about kids who get taken to see _The Magic Flute_ as their first opera,
: which is what happened to me when I was almost 10?
I'm surprised that no one has yet thought of having the three Ladies of
the Night appear naked when they come to try to seduce Tamino away from
his vow of silence.
graham
"Richard Schultz" <sch...@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
news:d9ar38$1kr$4...@news.iucc.ac.il...
> In rec.music.classical.recordings Matthew B. Tepper <oyþ@earthlink.net>
>
Woody Allen is another master at finding
> classical music to match his films -- think of the Prokofiev in _Love and
> Death_ or the Schubert G major quartet in _Crimes and Misdemeanors_.
>
Graham
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:d9ar79$1kr$5...@news.iucc.ac.il:
> In article <Xns967CC42E2FA...@207.217.125.201>, Matthew B.
> Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>:> But of course it should be made clear to parents in adavance, if
>:> nudity, violence etc. is to be expected on stage, so they can decide
>:> whether to take the kids along.
>:
>: How about kids who get taken to see _The Magic Flute_ as their first
>: opera, which is what happened to me when I was almost 10?
>
> I'm surprised that no one has yet thought of having the three Ladies of
> the Night appear naked when they come to try to seduce Tamino away from
> his vow of silence.
Nah, Papageno would freak out.
Dan Koren
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns967C4F2AA27...@207.217.125.201...
> Mark D Lew <mark...@earthlink.net> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:210620050238111526%mark...@earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <qNFte.47600$El.41868@pd7tw1no>, graham
>><g.dol...@fingershaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> But why would one want to watch this awful movie more than once?
>>
>> Not the whole movie. Just Nicole Kidman taking her clothes off.
>
> Even the little clip which circulated beforehand, of
> her standing nude in front of the mirror, waggling
> her bare bottom to the music, is worth it.
>
Why ?!?
dk
Dan Koren
Should I quote you Celibidache? ;-)
dk
Nicolai P. Zwar
> "Minty" <mi...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119182379.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Haven't seen most of the DVDs mentioned, but I'm a regular at the ENO
>>and rarely does an opera go by without some nudity, or near-nudity in
>>it.
>
>
> some idiots are wondering why the audience is getting older and older.
> children to music - including live performance - are essential for building
> new audiences.
I don't see what harm could possibly be done by taking children, even
small children, to an opera that contains nudity. Unless one is a prude,
of course. We are talking nudity here, not S&M orgies, right?
--
Nicolai Zwar
http://www.nicolaizwar.com
"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a cross-roads. One
path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total
extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."
Woody Allen (Side Effects)
Richard Schultz
: I don't claim to have an easy solution. One may want to see the
: Zauberfloete as a harmless fairy tale, but it contains the following:
:
: -Abduction, confinement and attempt to forced marriage (Sarastro vs. Pamina)
: -attempted rape (Monostatos vs. Pamina)
: -cruel and unusual punishment (against Monostatos)
: -racism (against Monostatos, "weil ein Schwarzer haesslich ist")
: -The Queen tries to persuade her daughter to kill Sarastro
: -attempted suicide, twice (Pamina and Papageno)
:
: Of course you can play down these things and stage it as a fairy tale,
: but it's not the only way to do it and one could argue, that it would be
: a very lop-sided interpreation of the piece. "Ach ich fuehls" is
: suicidal music and that shouldn't be played down.
One can only hope that you have kept the Grimm brothers' "Kinder- und
Hausmaerchen" well out of reach of any children in the vicinity.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
Johannes Roehl
> Johannes Roehl <parr...@web.de> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:3hrfs3F...@individual.net:
>>I don't want to judge nudity in opera (I think it should be decided for
>>each particular case, if it is appropriate and makes artistic sense), but
>>opera in general isn't for children (of course there are some exceptions
>>like that space invaders piece by Menotti).
>
>
> You mean _Amahl and the Night Visitors_? ;--) (Yes, I know perfectly well
> that you mean _Help! Help! the Globolinks!_, which I think at its premiere
> shared a double-bill with the aforementioned Christmas work.)
Yes I meant the Globolinks (I was afraid not to get all the exclamation
marks right)
>>It's a grown-up art form for grown ups. Many operas contain murder,
>>blackmail, adultery, attempted or successful rape (or at least forms of
>>sexual harrassment) anyway. If kids are old enough to deal with that
>>kind of stuff in the movies or on TV they won't become blind by some
>>nudity on stage.
>
> Are most opera plots (let's set aside the most sordid of the sordid ones)
> *that* much worse than the sonic sewage which is poured into kids' ears
> these days?
I don't get the comparsion between plot lines and pop music. I am all in
favor of taking kids to opera. But that can't mean that every opera, no
matter how violent or erotic its content should be staged ad usum
delphini. I also don't consider violent or erotic material "bad", about
any drama or novel deals with exactly these things, because many human
conflicts are centered around these fields.
>>But of course it should be made clear to parents in adavance, if nudity,
>>violence etc. is to be expected on stage, so they can decide whether to
>>take the kids along.
>
> How about kids who get taken to see _The Magic Flute_ as their first opera,
> which is what happened to me when I was almost 10?
I don't claim to have an easy solution. One may want to see the
Zauberfloete as a harmless fairy tale, but it contains the following:
-Abduction, confinement and attempt to forced marriage (Sarastro vs. Pamina)
-attempted rape (Monostatos vs. Pamina)
-cruel and unusual punishment (against Monostatos)
-racism (against Monostatos, "weil ein Schwarzer haesslich ist")
-The Queen tries to persuade her daughter to kill Sarastro
-attempted suicide, twice (Pamina and Papageno)
Of course you can play down these things and stage it as a fairy tale,
but it's not the only way to do it and one could argue, that it would be
a very lop-sided interpreation of the piece. "Ach ich fuehls" is
suicidal music and that shouldn't be played down.
Johannes
--
Philosophers, like shampoo manufacturers, would always like to call
their products 'natural'.
(P. Godfrey-Smith)
Stephen Jay-Taylor
Cruise's flesh, and even coyer with his. For madam's full Monty, view "Billy
Bathgate", an excellent pastiche noir with Dustin Hoffmann, written by Tom
Stoppard, and starring Nicole's nethers. ( And for his, this being rmo, see
"All the Right Moves".)
SJT, connoisseur de celluloid
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in
http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/members/thumbs/b/bM0907-
Nicole...@BillyBathgate-1.jpg
http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/members/thumbs/b/bM0908-
Nicole...@BillyBathgate-2.jpg
And my personal favorite:
http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/members/thumbs/b/bM0175-
Nicole...@EyesWideShut-2.jpg
And you can just ignore Lea Thompson (though I won't) in these clips from
"All the Right Moves":
http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/members/thumbs/b/bM1859-
LeaTh...@AllTheRightMoves.jpg