Best and Worst Conductors for Brahms?
Jarl Sigurd
which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
Jarl Sigurd
to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
Simon Roberts
: I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
: which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
: from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
: Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
Having mentioned some favorites in previous Brahms threads I'll
concentrate on the opposite end of the spectrum. I don't think I've heard
any worse than the unbelievably slow, slack, undercharacterized recording
by Thomas Sanderling on RS, though his father(?)'s remakes on Capriccio
and Swarowsky's run him close. The problem with Brahms symphony
recordings -- as, I suppose with much other standard music which everyone
seems to feel obliged to record regardless of whether they have anything
distinctive to say -- is not that there are many that are dreadful but
that so many are annoyingly dull. I would steer clear from recordings of
the symphonies by Abravanel, Krivine, Sawallisch, Eschenbach, Mehta,
and Jarvi as well.
Simon
Rich Schiebel
Klemperer. But do try de Sabata in the 4th.
JRsnfld
Schuricht's 4, especially the live one on Melodram, or Schuricht's live 2 on
Originals. Also look for the live Fricsay 2, Munch's live performance of 2 with
Boston, the Bohm/BRSO Brahms 1 on Orfeo, and the Walter's live 2 with NYPO on
Nuova Era. Also you will be fascinated by Celibidache's earlier Brahms
recordings with Italian groups (or the BPO 4 on Tahra).
Further away from the Furtwangler model of spontaneity are two peerless
conductors of Brahms who give performances that are a model of control, yet
seethe with energy and crystal clear textures: Carlos Kleiber and Yevgeny
Mravinsky. You might also try Levine's Brahms 1 with Chicago and Reiner's
Brahms with the CSO, NYPO, and RPO. Szell of course was a model of clarity and
control in Brahms, but sometimes without the energy, and Klemperer is also a
model of good judgement who sometimes lights a fire under his very weighty
orchestral sound. All of these are very good complements to Furtwangler.
--Jeff
pars...@optonline.net
Such an approach may work with Mahler, but it can be exasperating with
Brahms-- his Fourth fares best. Still, I wouldn't find "boring" applicable
to Bernstein's Brahms-- that adjective is reserved for the reflective
Giulini, whose expansive journey through Bruckner's Ninth makes it one of my
favorite recordings. Alas, his Brahms crawls, collapsing under its own
weight,
but not before lulling me to deep sleep.
The Klemperer and Walter recordings are monumental-- I'll have to check
out Jochum's though (any comments?). Karajan gave us wonderful performances
in the sixties and seventies. (His ' 78 Third, however, is short on
tension-- His digital age Brahms, like his digital Beethoven, is a horror,
but he still manages a ravishing Second.). Kleiber's Fourth develops nicely,
though I've never understood all the bells and whistles that sound at its
mention (that goes for his Beethoven 7th too). Dohnanyi's First is
excellent, and Szell conducts riveting performances of the Second and Third
(Critics say the re-mastered sound is an improvement, but I don't hear it--
is this the best technology can do for us?). The wonderful Mackerras set,
featuring a chamber orchestra, is as fascinating as it is exciting--
I felt like I was listening to Brahms for the first time. Recently,
Marriner recorded the symphonies for the Hanssler label. Though I hardly
associated the excellent conductor with this repertoire, he leads
performances of uncommon breadth and beauty.
Bravo, Sir Marriner, and your sterling Academy!
- F
Alex Leach
#1 and #4), Karajan in #2 (Philharmonia/EMI), Cantelli and Kempe in #3.
I cannot understand why de Sabata's BPO Fourth enjoys such a high
reputation: it sounds rather choppy to me.
--
Alex
<pars...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:xLEE4.1$O5.255@news02...
John Wilson
set on Testament a try. I find them nothing short of sensational.
John
On Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:43:44 -0800, "Jarl Sigurd"
<jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
>I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
>which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
>from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
>Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
Simon Roberts
: In article <8bvgk4$b97$1...@newsreaderg1.core.theplanet.net>,
: Alex Leach <alexand...@btinternet.com> wrote:
: # Yes, Marriner's #1 is surprisingly good.
: My god, I was kidding. But I've never heard him in this so...
Should you find curiosity irresistable, visit Academy, where they've had
scads of them for c. $4.
Simon
Simon Roberts
: Bernstein's idiosyncratic interpretations are too slow for my ears.
: Such an approach may work with Mahler, but it can be exasperating with
: Brahms-- his Fourth fares best. Still, I wouldn't find "boring" applicable
: to Bernstein's Brahms-- that adjective is reserved for the reflective
: Giulini, whose expansive journey through Bruckner's Ninth makes it one of my
: favorite recordings. Alas, his Brahms crawls, collapsing under its own
: weight,
: but not before lulling me to deep sleep.
I don't agree re Giulini, slow though he is, but do re Bernstein, assuming
you're referring to his VPO/DG recordings. If you are, you should try his
NYPO performances on Sony, which are quite different.
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
very much like SEIJI OZAWA! I heard him in the Piano Concerto #2 with
Rudolf Serkin in San Francisco, and the Symphony #1 in Edinburgh with
the Saito Kinen Orchestra, and thought both of those performances were
first-rate. I have his cycle of the symphonies with the Japanese band
on Philips.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
barry7665
conductors.
The Furtwangler set on Music and Arts (cat. no. 4941) is
the best one that I've heard, and his 1952 1st on Japanese
DG is maybe my favorite single Brahms recording. I'd love
to hear all of Walter's NY Phil set however. I have the 2nd
from it on Theorema and it's probably my overall favorite
recording of that piece.
The Jochum BPO set is another favorite.
Barry
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John Rethorst
=?iso-8859-1?Q?oy=FE=40earthlink=2Enet?= wrote:
> I am now going to cause everybody to shriek in horror. In Brahms, I
> very much like SEIJI OZAWA! I heard him in the Piano Concerto #2 with
> Rudolf Serkin in San Francisco, and the Symphony #1 in Edinburgh with
> the Saito Kinen Orchestra, and thought both of those performances were
> first-rate. I have his cycle of the symphonies with the Japanese band
> on Philips.
I've heard Ozawa play Brahms (symphony #2 IIRC) and liked it. My favorites
are Szell and Jochum.
--
John Rethorst
Remove x to reply.
John H
<jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
>I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
>which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
>from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
>Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
>Jarl Sigurd
>
>to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
>visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
>
>
The best is Bruno Walter. The second best is Bruno Walter. Also the
Third Best. Then we can start considering other conductors.
IMO. YMMV.
John Harkness
The Melsons
excited about his stereo versions of 2 and 3 with the Columbia
Symphony (I've not heard 1 and 4). The outlines of the music are fine,
but the sonority of the small orchestra (about 55 players) is too
scrawny for my taste.
I bought Kurt Sanderling's First with Dresden Staatskapelle on Simon's
recommendation and have enjoyed it immensely. Other favoriteas from
off the beaten path are Leinsdorf's cool but beautifully played and
unfussy Boston set (have any but the Second made it to CD?) and
Koussevitzky's searing Boston Fourth. I just bought Keilberth's Second
(with the BPO) and Third (Bamberg SO) on Teldec ($3.99 in the Tower
cutout bin) and look forward to hearing them.
Mark Melson
Simon Roberts
: I bought Kurt Sanderling's First with Dresden Staatskapelle on Simon's
: recommendation and have enjoyed it immensely. Other favoriteas from
: off the beaten path are Leinsdorf's cool but beautifully played and
: unfussy Boston set (have any but the Second made it to CD?) and
: Koussevitzky's searing Boston Fourth. I just bought Keilberth's Second
: (with the BPO) and Third (Bamberg SO) on Teldec ($3.99 in the Tower
: cutout bin) and look forward to hearing them.
Glad you like the Sanderling. Would you please report back on the
Keilberth? I keep picking it up, putting it back....
Simon
Ward Hardman
: I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
: which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
: from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
: Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
Along with the usual suspects (Klemperer, K. Sanderling, Furtwangler,
Toscanini, etc.) let me put in a good word for Carl Schuricht. After
listening to a couple of new purchases from Berkshire Record Outlet,
of the 3rd and 4th symphonies with the NDR orchestra, I have to admit
that this guy could really make the music move. I need to hear each
rendition a couple of more times to be able to characterize them,
but I have known his Brahm PC#2, with Backhaus and the VPO (now
available in the Philips GPO20C series) for many years. The finale
of the 3rd symphony really rips by... I'm tempted to call it "Klemperer
on speed." Was Weingartner's Brahms like this?
--Ward Hardman
Rich Schiebel
*video* (on VAI) of Walter rehearsing the work. Interspersed is an
interview with Walter where among other things he shares his views on
jazz (not very positive, I'm afraid) and gets competition from a bird
in a nearby tree. -Rich
On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:28:25 -0800, barry7665
<bzukerma...@phillynews.com.invalid> wrote:
>..... I'd love
Brian Cantin
> I am now going to cause everybody to shriek in horror. In Brahms, I
> very much like SEIJI OZAWA! I heard him in the Piano Concerto #2 with
> Rudolf Serkin in San Francisco, and the Symphony #1 in Edinburgh with
> the Saito Kinen Orchestra, and thought both of those performances were
> first-rate. I have his cycle of the symphonies with the Japanese band
> on Philips.
About 5 years ago I heard a 4th led by Ozawa in Boston.
The Boston Symphony started out sloppy, especially the horns.
By the second movement they got it together and generated
a thrilling performance.
--
Brian Cantin
An advocate of poisonous individualism.
To reply via email, replace "dcantin" with "bcantin".
The Melsons
concentrated listening, and it is now one of my favorites.
This is a German reading, as one might expect, with a rich,
bass-oriented sonority, and greater interest in smoothness (though not
to the Karajan degree) than crisp articulation. But it is also a
reading of great warmth, strength, concentration and depth of
feeling. This music really means something to Keilberth, and there is
never a feeling of routine or mere efficiency. There is a suggestion
of darkness and tragedy, especially in the first two movements, that
one doesn't often encounter in this sunniest of Brahms symphonies. The
Adagio is profoundly moving.
Tempi flow naturally, though without hurry, and the (always
beauitifully "sung") line is never distorted. The recording is warm
and spacious, if without a great deal of internal clarity. Knowing
your preoccupation with horn and timpani sonority, I would have to say
that the horns remain part of the texture, and the timpani are audible
and have impact where appropriate without undue prominence.
To sum it up, Walter's warmth combined with Klemperer's strength and
Furtwangler's vision. At Tower's $3.99 this is a mandatory buy.
I'll report back after hearing the Third, but it will be another day -
I want to leave the glowing sound of the Second in my memory for a
while.
Mark Melson
On 31 Mar 2000 02:16:00 GMT, si...@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon
JRsnfld
Keilberth? I keep picking it up, putting it back....
Simon <
I think it was definitely worth the $1.99 I paid for it. Surprisingly the 3
with Bamberg seemed better to me than the 2 with BPO. The former is just a bit
more unbuttoned. In all there are no great surprises in these recordings, but
that's no shame either.
--Jeff
Simon Roberts
: Pick it up and don't put it back. I've just given the Second a
: concentrated listening, and it is now one of my favorites.
[snip]
Thanks for the report; I'll give it a try.
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> As far as I know, I'm the only person on earth not to like
> Furtwangler's recordings of the Brahms symphonies!
Seems to me that you really, really, really, really, really don't like
them!
him...@my-deja.com
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
> I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
> which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
> from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
> Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
>
> to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
> visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
>
>
sounds no more than speeding up for the loud bits, and slowing down for
the soft bits. Obviously, I'm missing something.
For me, the worst Brahms conducting I've heard are the VPO/DG
recordings by Leonard Bernstein. He's a conductor I normally admire,
but the symphonies, in these recordings, are simply shapeless. It seems
that Bernstein wanted nothing more than wallow in the admittedly
beautiful sound of the VPO.
Generally, I prefer my Brahms taut and dramatic - with surely placed
climaxes. Brahms was magnificent at tightening tension without changing
pulse - the coda of the 1st movement of the 4th symphony, for instance:
it rather takes the point away when the conductor accelerates into this
coda. (Astonishingly, even Klemperer does this in his otherwise fine
recording!) The recently released Toscanini/Philharmonia recordings
are, for me, something of an ideal. In the digital era, Carlos
Kleiber's 4th is stunning. That last movement is marked allegro
energico e passionato - and you don't get more energico or passionato
than this!
I also like Karajan's cycles from the 60s and 70s (although he never
quite managed the 3rd). I've always been a Mravinsky fan, although his
cycle isn't very well recorded, and the orchestra is pretty dreadful on
the 2nd. The 4th is amazing, and he gets to the heart of the elusive
3rd. And, from a very different tradition, I love the recordings by
Adrian Boult, although I can understand why some think them under-
characterized.
Walter's recordings of the 2nd and the 3rd are superb, but I do prefer
a more dramatic approach to the other two symphonies. And Klemperer is
magnificent. I particularly like that very, very austere 3rd.
The other cycle I love is one with the Halle Orchestra conducted by
James Loughran. But I may be biased here - when I lived in Manchester,
I heard Loughran conduct the Halle often. He is a conductor who
desreves to be far better known, and he was at his best with Brahms.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Derek Haslam
The Melsons <ame...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> The outlines of the music are fine,
> but the sonority of the small orchestra (about 55 players) is too
> scrawny for my taste.
*Is* it the orchestra, or just CBS's scrawny recording? IIRC their
engineering was pretty dire in the early '60s.
Derek Haslam
--
D.L.Haslam
Powerbase Support http://www.quercus.ukgateway.net/
Powerbase Support http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/dljhaslam/
Alan Cooper
news:8c11p0$8og$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> The Melsons (ame...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
> Glad you like the Sanderling. Would you please report back on the
> Keilberth? I keep picking it up, putting it back....
Put it back and leave it; it's a bore. A couple of off the beaten track
recommendations: Steinberg 2nd on Millennium (fleet and Toscanini-ish),
coupled with the splendid Morini/Rodzinski Violin Concerto. The Steinberg
cycle also had an excellent 3rd; has that ever appeared on CD (my old
Command reel-to-reel tape is long gone)? A very interesting disc is the
Mitropoulos coupling of 3 and 4 on ASDisc--some thrilling playing, but some
weirdness, too.
AC
Paul Goldstein
jrs...@aol.com (JRsnfld) wrote:
>>Would you please report back on the
>Keilberth? I keep picking it up, putting it back....
>
>
>I think it was definitely worth the $1.99 I paid for it.
Surprisingly the 3
>with Bamberg seemed better to me than the 2 with BPO. The
former is just a bit
>more unbuttoned. In all there are no great surprises in these
recordings, but
>that's no shame either.
I won't even try to address the question of whether Simon NEEDS
that Keilberth disc, but I agree with Jeff and others that have
praised it. The much-maligned Bambergers do quite well with the
3rd, and both performances are glowing. Well worth the $1.99 or
$3.99 or whatever.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Paul Goldstein
<amco...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
A couple of off the beaten track
>recommendations: Steinberg 2nd on Millennium (fleet and
Toscanini-ish),
>coupled with the splendid Morini/Rodzinski Violin Concerto.
The Steinberg
>cycle also had an excellent 3rd; has that ever appeared on CD
(my old
>Command reel-to-reel tape is long gone)?
The whole Command cycle was issued by American MCA as a twofer.
It's been quite a while since I played it, but I believe the
channels are reversed on all or some of it.
Bob Taffelsen
> The whole Command cycle was issued by American MCA as a twofer.
> It's been quite a while since I played it, but I believe the
> channels are reversed on all or some of it.
All of it, from the sampling I just did. Boy, those MCA twofers are
(were) really, truly ugly things... A treasure trove of music that never
really took off, and, at least in the US, Millennium is not a household
word either. I wish Heymann or somebody with a knack for the classical
music business would purchase the Westminster and other back-catalogs
from these guys and issue the good stuff properly.
I almost forgot to say it: Morini, what a Princess of the fiddle!! She
manages to sound both pure and sexy.
Cheers,
BobT
him...@my-deja.com
him...@my-deja.com
him...@my-deja.com
him...@my-deja.com
him...@my-deja.com
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
> I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
> which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
> from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
> Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
> Jarl Sigurd
>
> to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
> visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
>
>
As far as I know, I'm the only person on earth not to like
him...@my-deja.com
him...@my-deja.com
"Jarl Sigurd" <jarls...@geocities.com> wrote:
> I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
> which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
> from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
> Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
> Jarl Sigurd
>
> to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
> visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
>
>
As far as I know, I'm the only person on earth not to like
Furtwangler's recordings of the Brahms symphonies! To me ears, it
him...@my-deja.com
Raymond Hall
> James Loughran. But I may be biased here - when I lived in Manchester,
> I heard Loughran conduct the Halle often. He is a conductor who
> desreves to be far better known, and he was at his best with Brahms.
>
> Before you buy.
I think we all appreciate your views, and Loughran did record a good
cycle on CfP from memory. I like Walter too. But I got your point in
your first post.
Why so many?
Browser problems?
Regards,
Ray Hall, Sydney
The Melsons
but there's only so much the engineer can do for an undersized
ensemble. McClure himself told me that the ensemble was 55 for
Beethoven and Brahms, 65 for Bruckner and Mahler!
Mark Melson
JRsnfld
weirdness, too.<
A good brief summation of the Arkadia issue as well--one of the few discs in
which Mitropoulos seemed a little awkward to me. Of course his accompaniment
for Kapell in the 1st Concerto is very exciting. I wonder how the
Ormandy/Kapell compares to it.
--Jeff
Martha & Russ Oppenheim
Paul Goldstein wrote:
>
>
> The whole Command cycle [of the Brahms 4 Symphonies with
> Steinberg] was issued by American MCA as a twofer.
> It's been quite a while since I played it, but I believe the
> channels are reversed on all or some of it.
>
The channels in the last 2 movements of Symphony no. 2 were reversed. I
wrote to the MCA big cheese back in 1988 about this problem and he
helpfully suggested that I rewire my speakers to listen to those
movements.
The sound of the Millenium reissue of no. 2 is noticeably cleaner and
richer than that of the MCA issue, and the channels are correct. The
2nd symphony is the real prize in Steinberg's cycle in any case.
Reversed channels are a major annoyance to me because I do a lot of
listening thru headphones. After paying the outrageous Dutch prices for
the EMI Strauss "Daphne" with Haitink, I noticed that the L-R channels
were reversed.
----------------------
Russ & Martha Oppenheim
mopp...@ix.netcom.com
----------------------
him...@my-deja.com
My apologies - I really didn't mean to post so often. When I was trying
to post this, I was getting an error message. I retried several times,
not realizing that the posting was actually registering with each
attempt. It's deeply embarrassing seeing the same posting by myself so
many times!
Rgds, Himadri
him...@my-deja.com
=?iso-8859-1?Q?oy=FE=40earthlink=2Enet?= wrote:
> him...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > As far as I know, I'm the only person on earth not to like
> > Furtwangler's recordings of the Brahms symphonies!
>
> them!
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
> My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
> "Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
>
Oh dear - this really is embarrassing! I was having problems with my
browser - I really didn't mean to post the same posting so many times!
Sorry!
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> Paul Goldstein wrote:
> >
> >
> > The whole Command cycle [of the Brahms 4 Symphonies with
> > Steinberg] was issued by American MCA as a twofer.
> > It's been quite a while since I played it, but I believe the
> > channels are reversed on all or some of it.
> >
>
> The channels in the last 2 movements of Symphony no. 2 were reversed.
> I wrote to the MCA big cheese back in 1988 about this problem and he
> helpfully suggested that I rewire my speakers to listen to those
> movements.
Considering that MCA was Mob Corporation of America at the time, I'd say
you got off easy!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Richard Vallis
Shockingly a ravishing performance
"Matthew B. Tepper" <o...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:38E3B574...@earthlink.net...
> I am now going to cause everybody to shriek in horror. In Brahms, I
> very much like SEIJI OZAWA! I heard him in the Piano Concerto #2 with
> Rudolf Serkin in San Francisco, and the Symphony #1 in Edinburgh with
> the Saito Kinen Orchestra, and thought both of those performances were
> first-rate. I have his cycle of the symphonies with the Japanese band
> on Philips.
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
> My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
David I.
Keiber. I will add the Van Beinum LPs on Epic--old sound, but
good playing and good interpretations. Horenstein's First and
Second are solid interpretations, and decently recorded. The
Szell Columbia set is wonderful, especially the Third; however,
the microphones seem too close to the orchestra. I suspect that
there were mikes in front of every section, and in some cases in
front of each player.
If you can find the Szell/Epic/ First Symphony you will be in
for a treat. It is amazingly performed, and the sound is more
distant than the Columbia. The performances which Szell inspires
in this recording are white hot and virtuosic far beyond what you
might expect even from the Cleveland Orchestra. Of particular
note are the amazing clarinet solos by Robert Marcellus, and the
oboe solos of Marc Lifschey. I believe Dick Smith was still
principal trumpet, Myron Bloom on horn, Mr. Goslee on bassoon,
Maurice Sharp on flute. I don't know who the concertmaster was,
but the playing is exquisite.
Mr/Ms Oppenheim, I am with you on the Steinberg Second. I have
the Command LP box and it is beautiful. I heard
Steinberg/Pittsburgh perform the Second on tour in Washington
D.C. in 1967. I stays in my memory as the finest performance of
the piece I have heard. Steinberg had a way with this piece, and
really made the last movement exciting. Forrest Standley was, I
believe, the first hornist whose playing was stunningly
expressive and warm. An underrated conductor and orc
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
David I.
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> Let's not forget Munch's phenomenal Brahms.
Did Furtwängler do much Brahms with the Gewandhaus Orchestra when Munch
was his concertmaster there?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
David Gable
Let's not forget Munch's phenomenal Brahms.
-david gable
David Gable
>was his concertmaster there?
Good question, but I don't know the answer. I only know two things about
Munch's reaction to Furtwa"ngler when he was F's concert master: (1) he
thought he was a terrific conductor and (2) he thought it was ridiculous for
the Furt NOT to give precise downbeats on the musical/ideological grounds that
he was conducting phrases.
-david gable
David Gable
>
Give a listen to the marvelous 2nd, too!
-david gable
John Wilson
>
>Let's not forget Munch's phenomenal Brahms.
>
>-david gable
Did Munch record all 4 of the Brahms Symphonies? I only know of 1 &
2.
Leinsdorf recoded the 4 Symphonies with the BSO. What do people think
of his?
John
Simon Roberts
: Did Munch record all 4 of the Brahms Symphonies? I only know of 1 &
: 2.
Plus 4, once on CD (and perhaps still) coupled with his exciting Dvorak 8.
I've never encountered a Munch 3. Is there such a thing?
Simon (who, if limited on only one 2 would probably take Munch's)
David Gable
There are recordings of 1, 2, and 4 from Munch on RCA. I am not aware of any
recording of the 3rd.
-david gable
Matthew B. Tepper
>
> There are recordings of 1, 2, and 4 from Munch on RCA. I am not aware
> of any recording of the 3rd.
Attention, whoever is preparing the BSO historical box!
My Koussevitzky picks would include Sibelius 1 and VW 5.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
John Rethorst
Worst: Fluffy, Lenny
--
John Rethorst
Remove x to reply.
John Rethorst
(Simon Roberts) wrote:
> John Rethorst (jxret...@post.com) wrote:
> : Best: Jochum, Klemperer, Szell
>
> : Worst: Fluffy, Lenny
>
> Evidently you haven't heard Thomas Sanderling...
>
I haven't. Which list do you put him on?
> Simon (wondering whether you've only heard Bernstein's DG remakes)
Both.
ppa...@mediaone.net
David Gable <dga...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000619003907...@ng-da1.aol.com...
Simon Roberts
: Best: Jochum, Klemperer, Szell
: Worst: Fluffy, Lenny
Evidently you haven't heard Thomas Sanderling...
Simon (wondering whether you've only heard Bernstein's DG remakes)
Brian Park
I'll mention Reiner as a great Brahms conductor. While his 3rd symphony
with the CSO is wonderful, I particularly love his live 2nd with the NYPO
and the RPO 4th on Chesky (particularly for the melting 2nd movement). The
same goes for his concerto recordings with Rubinstein, Gilels, and Heifetz.
Klemperer's 1st Symphony is still tops for me and special mention goes to
Szell's 3rd with Cleveland.
Brian Park
David I.
experienced were not recorded: Richard Lert at Asilomar,
California in 1969, and William Steinberg in New Haven,
Connecticutt in 1974. Sorry to wander off-topic, but I couldn't
resist mentioning those performan
Simon Roberts
: In article <8imjk4$ake$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>, si...@dept.english.upenn.edu
: (Simon Roberts) wrote:
: >
: > Evidently you haven't heard Thomas Sanderling...
: >
: I haven't. Which list do you put him on?
Worst.
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
was quite well-known here in Southern California as a conducting
pedagogue in the 1970s.
"Be alert -- our country needs more Lerts!"
"David I." wrote:
>
> I should mention that the finest Fourth Symphonies I have
> experienced were not recorded: Richard Lert at Asilomar,
> California in 1969, and William Steinberg in New Haven,
> Connecticutt in 1974. Sorry to wander off-topic, but I couldn't
> resist mentioning those performan
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
John Rethorst
=?iso-8859-1?Q?oy=FE=40earthlink=2Enet?= wrote:
> ARE there any recordings (available!) of Richard Lert conducting? He
> was quite well-known here in Southern California as a conducting
> pedagogue in the 1970s.
Would be nice if there were. Lert (who also conducted the Pasadena
Symphony) had as a youth heard Brahms play.
John Rethorst
<bkp...@megsinet.net> wrote:
You're right. I don't know why I sometimes forget to include Reiner on the
'best' lists for Beethoven as well as Brahms (Reiner's Pastorale is a
scorcher). The CSO also played very well for him.
thomasgil...@yahoo.de
2nd Furtwängler - the clarity is enormous
3rd Klemperer - the only recording I know that gets the Durchführung in the first movement - all others play this as if it was the Eroica, total nonsense and dumb, no understanding whatsoever for JB
4th Kleiber - the passacaglia is Unmatched.
Bernstein, walter, karajan are awful me too performances. In fact there is a sea of them out there.
Russ (not Martha)
> In article <8c2lv6$1e6$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>, "Alan Cooper"
> <amco...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> A couple of off the beaten track
> >recommendations: Steinberg 2nd on Millennium (fleet and
> Toscanini-ish),
> >coupled with the splendid Morini/Rodzinski Violin Concerto.
> The Steinberg
> >cycle also had an excellent 3rd; has that ever appeared on CD
> (my old
> >Command reel-to-reel tape is long gone)?
>
> The whole Command cycle was issued by American MCA as a twofer.
> channels are reversed on all or some of it.
>
The Steinberg/Pitts Brahms 2 is far and away my favorite version of the work.
Russ (not Martha)
MELMOTH
le samedi 07/05/2016, dans nos oreilles grandes ouvertes mais un peu
sales tout de même, et dans le message
<6fe0951f-a1ae-4523...@googlegroups.com>, les doux
mélismes suivants :
> Bernstein, walter, karajan are awful me too performances. In fact there is a
> sea of them out there.
--
Car avec beaucoup de science, il y a beaucoup de chagrin ; et celui qui
accroît sa science accroît sa douleur.
[Ecclésiaste, 1-18]
MELMOTH - souffrant
Alan Dawes
> The R & L channels are reversed in the 3rd & 4th movts of Symphony #2.
> Years ago I wrote the head honcho of MCA about this stupid defect, and
> he helpfully suggested that I could switch the speaker cables after the
> 2nd movt.
had your back to the speakers!
:-)
Alan
--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an ARMX6
gggg...@gmail.com
Bozo
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/mar/29/brahms-symphonies-no-1-4-review-peak-connection-in-bewitching-brahms
gggg...@gmail.com
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=sMLiWpeQCIWB8AO3-ojgBw&q=brahms+steinberg+memories+reverence+cd&oq=brahms+steinberg+memories+reverence+cd&gs_l=psy-ab.3...64488.68804.0.69029.23.23.0.0.0.0.627.3463.0j11j5j5-1.17.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..14.0.0....0.c-Rx4ErdAE4#imgrc=UkWUtnZdN9qGdM:
Last year, an Amazon customer said:
- This Italian-made set, with English-only notes, which I bought from Japan(!), is a clean, if VERY bright remastering of Steinberg's 1961-1962 Command Classics release. Bass boost and treble reduction are both helpful when listening. And what I'm listening to is the most extroverted Brahms I've ever heard. The performances are clear-minded, vigorous but spacious, monumental but detailed, beautiful but not sentimental, and sometimes transcendently luminous. Steinberg doesn't read anything into the music or wring anything out of it. The result is surprisingly refreshing.
Bozo
> Steinberg doesn't read anything into the music or wring anything out of it.
http://tinyurl.com/y7xp7uty
gggg...@gmail.com
- My experience is that LP reproduction really struggles on string sections and can get pretty shrill. Not a problem with the HDTT tape transfers.
https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/products/brahms-symphony-no-3-tragic-overture-steinberg-the-pittsburgh-symphony-orchestra
gggg...@gmail.com
Brahms - Symphony n°3 - Berlin / Karajan 1964
Adam Dubin
gggg...@gmail.com
> On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 5:18:43 PM UTC-10, Russ (not Martha) wrote:
> > On Friday, March 31, 2000 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Paul Goldstein wrote:
> > > In article <8c2lv6$1e6$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>, "Alan Cooper"
> > > <amco...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > > A couple of off the beaten track
> > > >recommendations: Steinberg 2nd on Millennium (fleet and
> > > Toscanini-ish),
> > > >coupled with the splendid Morini/Rodzinski Violin Concerto.
> > > The Steinberg
That is on Youtube:
BRAHMS - SINF. Nº 3 - STEINBERG/PITTSBURGH
mswd...@gmail.com
Should be named "Dinner for a Pack of Hungry RMCR Thread Cannibals"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVBYDZrQqyM
gggg...@gmail.com
> I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
> which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
> from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
> Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
>
> Jarl Sigurd
>
> to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
> visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
(Recent Barenboim upload on Youtube):
Brahms: Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op. 73 - 1. Allegro non troppo
gggg gggg
> I only have the Furtwangler versions in my collection,
> which I happen to like very much. I'm curious, aside
> from Furtwangler, who are the best Brahms conductors?
> Who, for that matter are the worst? Your opinions please!
> Jarl Sigurd
> to listen to a symphony composed by Jarl Sigurd
> visit: http://geocities.com/Paris/Lights/3333
[Brahms] compared the finale of Symphony No.1 with five different conductors.
Phl Maestro
Bob Harper
fdor a good while will remember :).
Bob Harper
Matthew Silverstein
> Jarl Sigurd! Now there's a name only those of us who have been around
> fdor a good while will remember :).
Matty