A Cleveland orchestra/Mike Bloom question...
Todd Schurk
in some Maazel led Cleve. orch recording sessions that took place
after 1977. Can anyone shed some light on which sessions he played on
in '77,'78 or even later? Thanks so much! Todd S.
ron...@usa.net
Todd,
I don't think he played in any past the spring of 1976. I know he
played the summer of 1976 but can't remember exactly when he finally
left. It is possible he is playing on some of the Brahms recordings
done in October, 1976. His name was on the roster at the beginning of
the 1976-77 season, but disappeared soon after, at which point Rick
Solis was named acting principal.
I just looked at Rosenberg's book to see if he could clarify the
situation, but his information is quite wrong. He states Bloom never
returned after his sabbatical in 1975-76, but that is incorrect. In
the personnel listing at the back of the book, he states Bloom was
principal until 1977; that is wrong as well.
Ron Whitaker
Ron Whitaker
Todd Schurk
Thanks Ron. I have the Rosenberg book as well (which I had a feeling
was not right on the Bloom dates) and thought sure Myron had played
again with the orchestra after his sabbatical. The solo in the finale
of the Brahms First w/Maazel sure does sound like Bloom. But then the
Cleveland horns of that time had a very uniform sound. It's no secret
that Maazel was not, shall we say, a Lorin Maazel fan...and that was
Cleveland's loss imo. Then to go over to the Orchestra de'Paris!!
Remember what Bloom said about that orchestra after Cleveland? It
wasn't pretty. Todd
notes...@yahoo.com
Orchestra archivist and requested a full personnel list. I received an
Excel file listing a fair amount of information on everyone who was
ever associated with the orchestra.
Myron Bloom is listed as having played through the 1976-77 season,
with 1975-76 as leave of absence.
One other interesting nugget is that Philip Farkas is listed as a
member for 1965 - "1965 Tour Only".
Bruce
ron...@usa.net
Bloom is playing on the Brahms 1, which was done a couple of years
earlier than 2, 3, and 4. The last three were all done in October,
1976.
There is no question he played after his sabbatical. He played on the
Franck D minor recording with Maazel, which I remember as absolutely
gorgeous playing on Bloom's part. He then played the Mahler 8th with
Leinsdorf at Blossom, 1976, and again, gorgeous playing. I don't
remember much after that as concerns Bloom.
Ron Whitaker
Todd Schurk
Of course that should read "Bloom was not,shall we say, a Lorin Maazel
fan"...it's also well known that Maazel is a Maazel fan. Todd
Todd Schurk
Hmm...now that is most interesting. I have a Szell-Cleveland Schubert
Great-C-major from that '65 Europe tour (recorded in the
Concertgebouw,Amsterdam) that I'll have to dig out. I thought that
Farkas had played in Cleveland for Rodzinski in the early 40's. Todd
ron...@usa.net
Farkas certainly played in Cleveland in the early to mid 40's. I would
imagine for the '65 tour he was hired as an extra as that was a 10-
week tour, much of it in the USSR. I doubt he would have even played
on the Schubert in Amsterdam, but who knows? Anything is possible.
Ron Whitaker
Kip Williams
> It's no secret
> that Maazel was not, shall we say, a Lorin Maazel fan...
Am I missing a subtlety here, or is this just one of those things that
happens when typing a long paragraph?
Kip W
Kip Williams
> Of course that should read "Bloom was not,shall we say, a Lorin Maazel
> fan"...it's also well known that Maazel is a Maazel fan. Todd
Posts that cross on the net! I asked about this, not knowing you'd
already answered it.
Kip W
notes...@yahoo.com
The Cleveland archive roster lists Farkas as principal horn 1941-45
and 1946-47. As far as I know, he was principal in Boston 1945-46.
Man, those guys back then sure moved around a lot. Arnold Jacobs had
played temporarily in Philadelphia and Boston and had been offered a
job in each of the Big 5 before settling forever in Chicago.
Another Chicago connection is Frank Brouk, who joined Cleveland in
1946 and was principal horn from 1947-1950.
Bruce
Todd Schurk
and wasn't Farkas also principal horn in Chicago as well-possibly
early 50's? Todd
Todd Schurk
With a bit of digging I found that Farkas was first horn in the CSO
from '47 to '60. So, at one time or other he was principal horn for
the Cleveland, Boston & Chicago orchestras.
Heck51
wasn't Farkas also principal horn in Chicago as well-possibly
> > early 50's? Todd
>
> With a bit of digging I found that Farkas was first horn in the CSO
> from '47 to '60. So, at one time or other he was principal horn for
> the Cleveland, Boston & Chicago orchestras>>
From CSO website:
Farkas, Philip Horn (Principal) 1936 - 1941
Farkas, Philip Horn (Principal) 1947 - 1960
Heck51
1941-45
> > > and 1946-47. As far as I know, he was principal in Boston 1945-46.
> With a bit of digging I found that Farkas was first horn in the CSO
> from '47 to '60. So, at one time or other he was principal horn for
> the Cleveland, Boston & Chicago orchestras.-
Farkas is listed as 5th horn in BSO for '65 - following sire is
interesting re BSO horns:
Heck51
here's a good site for CSO horns, from 1948 -
http://userwww.aimnet.ne.jp/user/moribin/ecsohr.html
somewhere there are similar sites for trumpets and trombones as
well...I'll see if I can find them.
Heck51
> here's a good site for CSO horns, from 1948 -
>
> http://userwww.aimnet.ne.jp/user/moribin/ecsohr.html
CSO trpts:
http://userwww.aimnet.ne.jp/user/moribin/ecsotp.html
CSO trombones:
http://userwww.aimnet.ne.jp/user/moribin/ecsotb.html
ron...@usa.net
I think you misread the grid -- he was fifth horn for the 65th season,
not 1965.
Ron Whitaker
Dontait...@aol.com
{snip}
> The Cleveland archive roster lists Farkas as principal horn 1941-45
> and 1946-47. As far as I know, he was principal in Boston 1945-46.
>
> Man, those guys back then sure moved around a lot. Arnold Jacobs had
> played temporarily in Philadelphia and Boston and had been offered a
> job in each of the Big 5 before settling forever in Chicago.
>
> Another Chicago connection is Frank Brouk, who joined Cleveland in
> 1946 and was principal horn from 1947-1950.
>
> Bruce
A good source of information about Phil Farkas is "Philip Farkas &
His Horn -- A Happy, Worthwhile Life" by Nancy Jordan Fako (Crescent
Park Music Publications, Elmhurst IL, 1998). It contains no summarized
chronology of Farkas's career, so tracing all of it and its dates is
difficult; but the above seems to be correct: principal horn in
Cleveland from 1941-45 and again from 1946-47. Then the Chicago
Symphony from 1947 until 1960, when he retired from orchestral playing
and went into teaching.
I remember that Farkas is quoted in the book about his one Boston
Symphony season, 1945-46. He had, of course, regarded it as a huge
step up in his career. What he found dismayed him. At the time the BSO
had nine horn players, and they essentially formed two distinct
sections: the players with seniority played the established "masters"
such as Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, and so on; the new guys got the
contemporary music that Koussevitzky constantly programmed. According
to the text, Farkas's heart lay with "the old masters"; that's what he
wanted to play. So after one season he left Boston, went back to
Cleveland, and then to Chicago.
The book reproduces a photo of the BSO horn section that Farkas took
with a self-timer at Tanglewood in 1946. Front row: Hugh Cowden,
Harold Meek, William Valkenier, Walter Macdonald. Second row: Osbourne
McConathy, Harry Shapiro, Philip Farkas, Paul Kearney, William
Gebhardt.
It also quotes Farkas about what a member of the BSO brass section
said to him when he got to Boston in 1945: "welcome to the worst brass
section in America!"
Anyway, Philip Farkas was a great, great, great horn player. And the
book is worth getting, too.
Don Tait
Heck51
> I remember that Farkas is quoted in the book about his one Boston
> Symphony season, 1945-46. He had, of course, regarded it as a huge
> step up in his career. What he found dismayed him. At the time the BSO
> had nine horn players, and they essentially formed two distinct
> sections: the players with seniority played the established "masters"
> such as Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, and so on; the new guys got the
> contemporary music that Koussevitzky constantly programmed. According
> to the text, Farkas's heart lay with "the old masters"; that's what he
> wanted to play. So after one season he left Boston, went back to
> Cleveland, and then to Chicago.
>
> The book reproduces a photo of the BSO horn section that Farkas took
> with a self-timer at Tanglewood in 1946. Front row: Hugh Cowden,
> Harold Meek, William Valkenier, Walter Macdonald. Second row: Osbourne
> McConathy, Harry Shapiro, Philip Farkas, Paul Kearney, William
> Gebhardt.
> Anyway, Philip Farkas was a great, great, great horn player. And the
> book is worth getting, too.
Interesting stuff about the BSO horns. I got to know Willem Valkenier
pretty well - since he lived in retirement right down the street from
me...he lived past 98YO. His son [step-son actually] is now in his
90s, and can still be seen doing yard work, collecting, raking brush
etc...
he loved to tell stories....He didn't like Koussevitsky much at all,
and apparently the feeling was mutual...
I heard a concert tape of Tchaik 5 - Koussie/BSO, with Valkenier
playing the 2nd mvt solo..
Koussevitsky takes the introduction glacially slow....incredible, it
lasts forever. according to Valkenier, this was intentional. [who
knows??] anyway, as soon as Valkenier enters, he picks the tempo up
considerably, moves it right along, and the strings went right with
him...
Todd Schurk
And I believe he retired in '60 because he and his Dr. agreed that
Reiner was not good for Farkas health. Todd
Heck51
> I think you misread the grid -- he was fifth horn for the 65th season,
> not 1965.>
yup, sorry - 65th season - 1945-46...
Dontait...@aol.com
> On Jul 1, 12:27 pm, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:
{snip}
> > � Anyway, Philip Farkas was a great, great, great horn player. And the
> > book is worth getting, too.
>
> > � Don Tait
>
> And I believe he retired in '60 because he and his Dr. agreed that
> Reiner was not good for Farkas health. Todd
Perhaps it was Reiner. But in her book (cited in my previous post),
Nancy Jordan Fako writes that Farkas was always severely troubled by
nerves before he had to play -- never got over it -- and by 1960 could
no longer endure it and had decided that he had to give up everything
except teaching, which he did for years afterward. Not just nerves
that he'd crack a note in performance; worry about doing his artistic
best for the music. Apparently when he told Reiner he wanted to leave
the CSO, Reiner -- who'd treated so many people for years with a heart
as cold as ice -- was overwhelmed at the thought of losing Philip
Farkas. And cared genuinely for Farkas, too. But Reiner couldn't talk
him out of his decision, and eventually sent him on his way.
Don Tait
Heck51
<<Reiner -- who'd treated so many people for years with a heart
> as cold as ice -- was overwhelmed at the thought of losing Philip
> Farkas. And cared genuinely for Farkas, too.>>
Reiner was an SOB, no doubt, but he did care for his principal
players...He would really test them out the first season or two, and
if they passed, they were "his boys"
in lengthy interviews for the IDRS both Ray Still and Leonard Sharrow
describe their relationships and experiences with Reiner...he treated
both of them quite decently, and knew how valuable they were to his
orchestra. of course he still had to jerk everyone's chain once in
awhile, [Mahler 4, LvB6, LvB4 stories] but he gave his soloists alot
of expressive leeway - he expected it.
Still was originally hired as assistant first in 1953....after a year
of this Still told Reiner he wanted to go elsewhere, he'd been offered
a job as assistant principal in the NYPO with more playing
oportunities - Reiner told him to stay put, he was going to make
changes, which he did. Still was moved over to principal.
Dontait...@aol.com
Yes, the principal and many other players often spoke about this
regarding Reiner. I hope that what I posted did not seem to indicate
otherwise, because I know too that that was not the case. I think I
know the stories to which you referred about Reiner and the Beethoven
symphonies (Still and the Baltimore Orioles?) So Ray Still stayed in
Chicago.
Don Tait
Heck51
> I think I know the stories to which you referred about Reiner and the Beethoven
> symphonies (Still and the Baltimore Orioles?) So Ray Still stayed in
> Chicago. right -
right - you played it "mit de Orioles" - the Mahler 4 one is about the
low note entrance in mvt 3 oboe solo. it starts "p" on a low E. during
the recording 1st take, the note spoke late...on the 2nd take - Reiner
started all the way back at the beginning of the long rest, Still
tried to play it very soft, and it didn't speak at all. Reiner asked
him sarcastically if he wanted [Jerry]Sirucek [obII] to play it. Still
adamantly rejected this, and aced it next time, which is the one used
on the recording...
the Beethoven 4th anecdote relates to Sharrow - the orchestra was due
to rehearse the piece for upcoming concerts...the last mvt has the
famous staccato bassoon solo statement of the main theme at the
recap...it is marked all tongued/articulated....indicted tempo is 1/4
note = 160.
the orchestra was on stage, warming up; Reiner walks onto the stage,
looks around scowling, hears Sharrow practicing with various slur-
tongue variations of the solo - [Sharrow did not 2ble tongue]
he snarls - "No slurs!!"
Reiner's version is one of the fastest on record, TMK - c 152+ -
Sharrow played it on the recording, but did put in slurs...
I once played this for a guy who actually went 160 - it was really
rather a frantic mess...I popped it out on the $$, tho, but I can 2ble
tongue. scary stuff...
Michael Schaffer
That's all about the CSO as in "Chicago", who cares about that when
according to yourself, the CSO as in "Cape Symphony" is the hottest
band in America? Now that I live in Boston, I can't wait to hear you
guys live! But what happened to "Maestro Royston Nash"?