La Traviata

[Ralph]

Hello,

I am interested in knowing your favorite recording(s) of Verdi's La
Traviata. I currently own these two:

1. Kleiber conducting, with Domingo, Milnes,and Contrubas on the DG label.

2. Antonicelli conducting with Steber, Di Stefano, and Merrill on the Naxos
Historical label.

What other good ones are out there worth having?

Thanks in advance,

Ralph

[Richar...@aol.com]

Monteux's mono recording with Carteri, Valetti and Warren is going to
be reissued by Testament soon. It's intimate and intense - few of the
protagonists raise their voices for grand slam moments - with an
atmosphere unlike any other Traviata I have heard.

At the other end of the scale, Giulini's La Scala live performance with
Callas, Di Stefano and Bastianini is a poor technical job but worth
hearing for some spine chilling moments.

[david...@aol.com]

I think Traviata is one of the greatest and most humane music dramas
ever conceived by the mind of man, and I've seen it more times than any
other opera, heard more recordings of it, live or studio, than any
other Verdi opera. The best conducted Traviata I've ever heard bar
none is the old Decca set with Tebaldi, Poggi, Protti, and
Molinari-Pradelli. To judge Molinari-Pradelli without the singers just
listen to the magnificent and indeed incomparable way he phrases the
prelude to the last act. The process of growth through the movement is
not to be believed with its completely convincing and all but
imperceptible increases in tempo as the movement gradually comes to
life, each phrase is indelibly etched, and his relatively modest but
extremely refined use of rubato is a model of how it should be done.
Then again, there are different problems with each member of the cast
that I don't care to go into. (I also find things to admire in each of
the three principals' performances, but the overwhelming majority of
listeners is not going to be able to listen through Poggi's provincial
mannerisms and the odd gulping and bleating characteristic of his vocal
production or Protti's coarse woolly sound to discover certain virtues
buried in their performances, notably certain of Poggi's very real
instincts and Protti's extreme sensitivity.)

The De los Angeles/Serafin set is generally underrated if only because
De los Angeles is a more understated and less obviously vivid Violetta
than Callas. Nevertheless, she's absolutely magnificent in her modest,
understated, and inward way, different from but not inferior to Callas,
and Serafin, like Molinari-Pradelli, is the real deal, although perhaps
not quite at his very best. In an imperfect world, this might very
well be the Traviata I'd take to a desert island if only allowed one.

Callas, De los Angeles, and Albanese are probably my favorite
Violetta's: all three are supremely musical singers and singing
actresses of a very high order, and all of them are temperamentally
very well suited to the role, but not everybody likes Albanese's
brittle timbre. I do. If anything, I think it makes her sound more
touchingly vulnerable. Unfortunately, Toscanini's NBC broadcast of
Traviata is the most overdriven and least convincing of his NBC Verdi
broadcasts. Albanese and Peerce are well nigh ideal in their roles,
though, and the dress rehearsal for the broadcast, available on Music &
Arts, finds a less nervous Toscanini in much more convincing form.
(I'd still like to find another Toscanini-less Traviata with Albanese,
preferably again with Peerce, but haven't tried hard enough yet.)

I'm not sure which Callas Traviata to recommend. I think the famous
Scala performance with Di Stefano, Bastianini, and Giulini is
overrated. Giulini turns in a reasonable enough performance, but he
goes slack in crucial places, and his performance as a whole lacks
backbone despite distinctive touch after distinctive touch. The Cetra
recording with Callas is typical Callas and stems from early enough in
her career that the voice is in very reliable condition, but her tenor
and baritone are abysmal. I'm not overwhelmed by the so-called Lisbon
Traviata, either, except for Callas, of course.

I had some hopes for the Stella-Di Stefano-Gobbi-Serafin set when
Testament reissued it on CD. They were dashed. Stella's not yet in
full decline but nothing special, Di Stefano is not in as good form as
I had been lead to expect he would be, and Gobbi and Serafin are not
enough to save the show.

I abhor Carlos Kleiber's performance in his DG set more than almost any
other performance of a Verdi opera I've ever heard. For my detailed
brief against this ghastly, wrong headed, unidiomatic,
singer-strait-jacketing, and far more overdriven than Toscanini ever
dreamed of being travesty, though, you'll have to do a Google search.

For a gloriously sung uncut Traviata, try
Caballe-Bergonzi-Milnes-Pretre. In some ways, Caballe sings circles
around De los Angeles, Callas, and Albanese, especially in the fast
florid passages, but she was never remotely as musically interesting or
as intense an actress as they were. At least she's not the snooze that
Sutherland was, and this stems from the period when she was most
involved in her studio performances. Bergonzi is an incomparable model
of how it should be done, and the young Milnes has a big fat gorgeous
authentic "Verdi baritone" sound, but Pretre is no Serafin or
Molinari-Pradelli.

Renata Scotto is another Violetta worthy to be mentioned alongside
Callas and Albanese, and her first recording finds her in reasonable
voice, although it's another "brittle" voice like Albanese's and with a
less easily produced top. (The recording with Scotto, Kraus, and Muti
from a decade and a half later comes from way too late in her career,
although Todd Kay has made me curious to revisit a couple of passages
from this performance at some point). I'm afraid to say too much about
this performance because I haven't listened to it in a while, although
I do remember liking it. I generally admire Antonino Votto enormously,
but I don't really remember what I thought of him here. I do know you
can do better than Gianni Raimondi's decent enough Alfredo.

I've never heard the Monteux set--reissued on Myto, I think, and to be
reissued again on Testament--that many people seem to have found a bit
underwhelming. I'm keeping my fingers crossed until I break down and
buy it: with Carteri, Valetti, and Warren, it looks very promising on
paper. Monteux was a superb musician, although I've never heard him
conduct Italian opera, and if Carteri is in good form, she should give
Callas, de los Angeles, and Albanese a run for their money.

Moffo's RCA set finds her in characteristic form, and fans of her
honest and affecting approach will not be disappointed by her
contribution. Vocally she's in good and characteristic form, but I
don't think she scales quite the heights that she does in her RCA Luisa
Miller (for my money, the best thing she ever did). The problem is her
conductor. Previtali is inconsistent in approach, although I don't
have the patience to enumerate some of the odd things he does. And
while Tucker sings with intensity and ardor and a generous supply of
sound (and a few provincial mannerisms that annoy others more than they
annoy me), he's past his prime, as is Robert Merrill, who is also less
alert here than under Toscanini. For Moffo-at-all-costs addicts only.

I've been scared off the Naxos issue of a live Met Traviata with
Ponselle by reports that the performance finds her badly off form. I
would love to have somebody tell me I've been misinformed.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

"Moffo's set . . . finds her in characteristic form. . . . .Vocally
she's in good and characteristic form . . . "
That's what you need an editor for.

-david gable

[Don Rice]

I hate to follow Maestro Gable but I have the Solti "Traviata" DVD with
Gheorgiu. The overall performance is extremely convincing but perhaps I
overlook some of the musical imperfections because of simultaneously
being engaged visually. I think Gheorgiu is a wonderful actress, has a
very lovely voice but is much too gorgeous and healthy looking to really
portray a consumptive - but I willfully suspend my disbelief. The tenor
is capable, the baritone used to be wonderful but I suppose portraying
an older man is a fitting role for his aging voice. As I said, the small
musical reservations seem inconsequential in relation to the totality.
Don

[jrs...@aol.com]

I also realize the futility of following Maestro Gable on this one,
since I'm still a work in progress as an Italian opera fiend, but I
want to point out a few things:

I have both of the above, and neither is satisfactory. Steber doesn't
sound as convincing in this role as she does in Puccini, Berlioz, Bach,
Mozart, or countless other repertoire. Somehow the pathos didn't quite
suit her in this performance. Kleiber has been ripped to shreds
already. Yes, his Verdi is all "wrong" and it is not ideal, but as a
"Kleiber" experience--tense, vivid, electric--it is worth hearing.
Molinari-Pradelli is sublime in early Verdi--you must hear him (or
others like him) to get a really satisfying experience. Kleiber in
Otello is a different matter, however; this suits him much better.

I think your next Traviata should be either the Lisbon-Callas, because
it is what it is, or perhaps the Opera d'Oro release of
Scotto/Carreras, conducted by Nino Verchi. Scotto is marvelous, and
this (1973) is not too late in her career. The Toscanini rehearsal with
Albanese is definitely interesting, but maybe a third or fourth option
at this point.

--Jeff

[david...@aol.com]

Jeff, who always stumbles across interesting live performances I've
never even heard of, wrote that Kleiber in Otello is a different
matter, that Otello suits him much better. Since I bash the poor man's
Traviata so often, in all fairness I must say that I quite like his
performances of Otello. The "symphonic" continuity there gives him
something to sink his teeth into.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

Don thinks "Gheorgiu is a wonderful actress," but "much too gorgeous
and healthy looky to really portray a consumptive." As suspension of
disbelief goes, better that than a Violetta ample and matronly.
-david gable

[A. Brain]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107239033.8...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

This is not my favorite opera, though it's been growing
on me lately. My two favorite sopranos, Elizabeth
Futral and Patricia Racette, have sung Violetta,
but I apparently missed Racette (Santa Fe 1997,
when I skipped Traviata) and Futral hasn't appeared
here or close by in the role that I know of.

Last two Violettas I experienced were Fleming (Houston)
and Swensen (San Francisco). Maybe that
explains how I am liking the opera more and more.

One of the reasons I'd like to see Racette or
Futral is for their acting. In Boheme (Chicago,
2002), Racette looked great in the first three
acts, yet somehow she really looked sick by
the end. And Futral is simply beautiful on stage.
No need to suspend belief with either of these
great singers.

I picked up the Solti DVD and have not seen it
yet. What thoughts on the film from Zefferelli,
cuts and all? (Why a taut little work like this
would need cuts is beyond me; they never seem
to cut the stuff that really needs it.)

--
A. Brain

Remove NOSPAM for email.

[david...@aol.com]

A note on the so-called Lisbon Traviata. This performance originally
came into prominence for extrinsic reasons. While Callas recorded a
Traviata in the studio for Cetra early in her career, she never
recorded Violetta for EMI. At some point, EMI decided to release a
Traviata with Callas, but their decision as to which of several live
performances to release was based on which performance was available to
them in the best sound. The Lisbon performance with Kraus and Ghione
was deemed to have the best recorded sound, and EMI chose it.
Otherwise, they might well have chosen the Scala performance with Di
Stefano and Giulini. As it turns out, though, long after EMI released
Lisbon, the source tape suddenly surfaced (in Lisbon?), and somebody
else released the same performance in better sound than EMI had managed
to get its hands on. At this point I don't remember who released it,
whether or not it was a limited edition (as I seem to recall), whether
any other labels were clever enough to pirate the issue in better
sound, etc., since it's not a performance I liked quite enough to keep.
Maybe somebody else will step in with the facts (or maybe a Google
search will yield them) in the event that somebody wants to pick it up.
Needless to say, the appearance of a play entitled "The Lisbon
Traviata" written after EMI released the performance has done nothing
to hurt the mystique surrounding this performance. Come to think of
it, Jeff's gnomic and indeed almost cabbalistic endorsement of it
"because it is what it is," coming close, as it does, to Yaweh's "I am
that I am," makes me think I might need to listen to it yet again.
-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

I saw the Zeffirelli film when it was first released (1982), and my
memory of it is dim, but the worst thing about it beyond any question
is Zeffirelli. Busoni once described opera, at least as routinely
realized in certain kinds of performances, as "an attractive lie."
Zeffirelli has made a whole career out of trying to prove Busoni right.
Wherever and whenever possible he reduces the truth of a work to an
attractive lie. As Zeffirelli mise en scene go, this Traviata doesn't
look too Hallmark-Hall-of-Cards-ish-ly pretty, although there's plenty
of dishonest Hallmark-Hall-of-Cards-ish misty pastel soft focus camera
work, but he nevertheless manages to sentimentalize the whole damned
thing with a gratuitous framing device. (I seem to recall various
other gratuitous little touches throughout, some intended to shock with
their supposed graphic verismilitude, some to sentimentalize.)

The opera is shown in flashback, opening and closing with the view of a
handsome young worker moving Violetta's packed belongings out of her
apartment. He peeks in on Violetta on her deathbed at the beginning
and at the end with the sort of concern that saccharine and
sentimentally depicted orphans with gigantic eyes in paintings on black
silk sold at flea markets are intended to elicit. We're insulated from
any suggestion that the subject is real pain by the sheer distancing
cuteness and therefore unreality of it all.

I recall Stratas as a very fine and deeply expressive Violetta, one so
convincingly consumptive appearing and acting as to be alarming. I
also recall that Domingo sang very well and even acted rather well as
Alfredo. Unfortunately, Domingo's simply not the actor Stratas is, and
he's basically incapable of shedding his own sunny, sane, and stable
demeanor and incarnating an impetuous and at times irrational young
hothead instead--the young Di Stefano would have been perfect for the
role--a still immature boy trying to act--with an all too often
embarrassing lack of success--like a man. And it was a colossal
mistake to juxtapose Domingo at his age at the time of the film to a
gratuitously added worker the right age for the role. More's the pity,
because Domingo actually looks fairly youthful--he lost weight for the
film--but Zeffirelli undermines Domingo and Verdi for silly reasons of
his own with his sentimental conceit.

I don't remember anything about MacNeil's Germont or Levine's
conducting, but, speaking of Stratas as Violetta, there's a live
mid-60's Traviata on Orfeo with Stratas, Wunderlich, Prey and Patane.
That's one I've always wanted to hear but never have. (I still haven't
gotten around to listening to the Preiser reissue of an old EMI
Columbia recording with Guerrini, Infantino, Silveri, and Bellezza that
I picked up months ago.)

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

DAMMIT! Not paintings of orphans on black silk, paintings of orphans
on black velvet (from my hatchet job on Zeffirelli). Posting on the
Internet is going to give me a heart attack yet.

-david gable

[Rolf]

These are my fav. historic fragments:
Sembrich demonstrating how 19th century singing works:
http://www.lacasadellamusica.it/Main/ProgettoEuropeo/Ipertesto/Eng_version/Approfondimento/Mp3/Sembrich_1.mp3

And lucrezia bori in a experimental 6 minute recording format:
http://www.nps.gov/edis/edisonia/audio/EDIS-WXT-02.mp3

(for more of this site see:)
http://www.nps.gov/edis/edisonia/opera.htm
Greetings

rolf

http://homepages.ipact.nl/~otterhouse

[benjo maso]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107245687....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
(snip)

> I don't remember anything about MacNeil's Germont or Levine's
> conducting, but, speaking of Stratas as Violetta, there's a live
> mid-60's Traviata on Orfeo with Stratas, Wunderlich, Prey and Patane.
> That's one I've always wanted to hear but never have.

I've heard the highlights, but I think you would be disappointed. First of
all because it's sung in german ... By the way, do you know Krips' life
Traviata (Vienna 1971) on Arkadia with Cotrubas as the most moving Violetta
I have ever heard (much better than in the Kleiber recording), Gedda (I'm
usually not to fond of him but as Alfredo he is almost ideal) and Cornel
MacNeil (not at his best). Choir and the comprimari are a bit undisciplined,
but IMO a great performance all the same.

Benjo Maso

[Larry Rinkel]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107246508.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Don't worry, David, I doubt most of us here are really into fabrics.

[Ivailo Partchev]

First, you need a Callas recording, either the Cetra with Albanese, or
the Lisbon live with Kraus.

The Caballe/Bergonzi/Pretre is lovingly prepared and absolutely worth
having. If only she had invested about the same amount of work in
preparing her subsequent roles...

[Simon Roberts]

In article <1107246508.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
david...@aol.com says...

>
>
>
>DAMMIT! Not paintings of orphans on black silk, paintings of orphans
>on black velvet (from my hatchet job on Zeffirelli). Posting on the
>Internet is going to give me a heart attack yet.

Were you wearing silk while posting?

Simon

[Simon Roberts]

In article <HfxLd.4342$S3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Ralph says...

>
>Hello,
>
>I am interested in knowing your favorite recording(s) of Verdi's La
>Traviata. I currently own these two:
>
>1. Kleiber conducting, with Domingo, Milnes,and Contrubas on the DG label.
>
>2. Antonicelli conducting with Steber, Di Stefano, and Merrill on the Naxos
>Historical label.

You already have my favorite studio recording, Kleiber's, though the reasons why
are more-or-less limited to Cotrubas and (pace David G) Kleiber. I also
wouldn't want to be without the best sung Alfredo, Bergonzi's for Sutherland
(better than on the Caballe/Pretre set, which I don't care for; then again,
Sutherland and Pritchard are hardly ideal), and have a soft spot for Maaze's
excitingly conducted effort on Decca, despite its rather odd cast. It's been a
while since I last wheeled out any live performances, so I'll refrain from
mentioning any of those.

Simon

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Simon Roberts <sd...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:cto3q...@drn.newsguy.com:

Only when writing about Wagner.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Take THAT, Daniel Lin, Mark Sadek, James Lin & Christopher Chung!

[Matthew B. Tepper]

"david...@aol.com" <david...@aol.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:1107245687.358645.78000
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> I recall Stratas as a very fine and deeply expressive Violetta, one so
> convincingly consumptive appearing and acting as to be alarming. I
> also recall that Domingo sang very well and even acted rather well as
> Alfredo. Unfortunately, Domingo's simply not the actor Stratas is, and
> he's basically incapable of shedding his own sunny, sane, and stable
> demeanor and incarnating an impetuous and at times irrational young
> hothead instead--the young Di Stefano would have been perfect for the
> role--a still immature boy trying to act--with an all too often
> embarrassing lack of success--like a man. And it was a colossal
> mistake to juxtapose Domingo at his age at the time of the film to a
> gratuitously added worker the right age for the role. More's the pity,
> because Domingo actually looks fairly youthful--he lost weight for the
> film--but Zeffirelli undermines Domingo and Verdi for silly reasons of
> his own with his sentimental conceit.

It doesn't help that Domingo and "father" (and "sister" in flashbacks) have
ridiculous red hair, suggesting the Germont family is distant ancestor to
the Harkonnens.

[david...@aol.com]

The highlights from Traviata with Wunderlich auf Deutsch are on DG.
Cast includes Gueden and Fischer-Dieskau with Bartoletti conducting.
-david gable

[Jon A Conrad]

david...@aol.com <david...@aol.com> wrote:

>the overwhelming majority of
>listeners is not going to be able to listen through Poggi's provincial
>mannerisms and the odd gulping and bleating characteristic of his vocal
>production

And why should they, after all? Those are sufficient disqualifiers from
serious consideration -- unless, I suppose, Poggi were delivering blinding
insights that nobody else in history had ever discovered.

>The De los Angeles/Serafin set is generally underrated if only because
>De los Angeles is a more understated and less obviously vivid Violetta
>than Callas.

I would say that if it's underrated, it's because of the provincial tenor.
I've always found the lady herself touching and elegant here, and Serafin
contributes one of his unostentatiously "right" jobs.

>I abhor Carlos Kleiber's performance in his DG set more than almost any
>other performance of a Verdi opera I've ever heard.

We know, we know. :-) But there are so many worse examples around, I have
to wonder how much serious comparison you've done. It's not even the most
unidiomatic, singer-strait-jacketing, overdriven *Traviata* around, by a
long shot. That would be Maazel for Decca -- a recording that I listened
to with shock as he launched into the big tune in the Prelude, my only
reaction being "Omigod, he doesn't *get* it! -- how can that be, when so
many conductors before him did?" (And surely Muti comes ahead of Kleiber
on the list, too, along with a few others.)

Anyway, I now stay away from this recording myself, because of the ghastly
Cotrubas. (She's not as pouty and affected and unable to control pitch as
she later became, but the seeds are there.)

>Caballe-Bergonzi-Milnes-Pretre. In some ways, Caballe sings circles
>around De los Angeles, Callas, and Albanese, especially in the fast
>florid passages

Actually, though I would expect her to do well there, to my ears that's
particularly where she falls down. She sounds best in the very "simplest,"
quietest passages, like "Alfredo, Alfredo" and "Addio del passato," which
are both quite beautiful.

>I've never heard the Monteux set--reissued on Myto, I think, and to be
>reissued again on Testament--that many people seem to have found a bit
>underwhelming. I'm keeping my fingers crossed until I break down and
>buy it: with Carteri, Valetti, and Warren, it looks very promising on
>paper. Monteux was a superb musician, although I've never heard him
>conduct Italian opera, and if Carteri is in good form, she should give
>Callas, de los Angeles, and Albanese a run for their money.

So many writers I admire think well of this set, I bought it on Myto. I
like what Monteux does (but a warning: some have called it "unidiomatic");
it's an un-pushy lyrical conception, well-scaled to Valetti's way of
rendering Alfredo. Warren is mostly magnificent too, even though this was
not one of his trademark roles. But I just don't like Carteri, and I'm not
sure if she wasn't in good form or if this was just the way she sounded
and I'm immune to the charms of the "1940s-50s Italian prima donna"
timbre, with its touches of acidity and harshness.

>I've been scared off the Naxos issue of a live Met Traviata with
>Ponselle by reports that the performance finds her badly off form. I
>would love to have somebody tell me I've been misinformed.

Well, if I have any credibility left in your eyes, let me tell you: you've
been misinformed. I think she sounds terrific here (and Tibbett ain't
chopped liver either). It's the sumptuous, creamy Ponselle timbre, as
impeccably and movingly guided as ever. My only problem with her is in the
big confrontation at Flora's, where she starts making noises while Alfredo
is denouncing her, as if she'd lost faith in her ability to communicate
musically, and had to resort to unmusical gasps and sobs and squeaks to
stay in the scene. (It's an embryonic form of the lapses in judgement that
make her live Carmen so horribly disappointing and dispiriting from such a
great voice and great artist.) The whole performance is, however, more a
matter of great individual scenes and moments than a superbly coherent
whole -- understandable, I guess, given the distance in time and the dim
sound.

And, on reflection, I couldn't say that any of the Traviata recordings
offers a "superbly coherent whole," despite so many fine individual
elements in many of them. I don't think I could just point to one and say
"buy with confidence." I'd have the same problem recommending a Don
Giovanni or a Tristan und Isolde.

Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu

[Simon Roberts]

In article <c49vv0hc3ijmccuqc...@4ax.com>, Theresa says...

>
>"A. Brain" <abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote:
>
>> What thoughts on the film from Zefferelli,
>> cuts and all? (Why a taut little work like this
>> would need cuts is beyond me; they never seem
>> to cut the stuff that really needs it.)
>

>I saw it many years ago. My impression: You get a lot of period
>costumes (which I despise) and lots of bad lip-sych-ing. I
>wouldn't want to have it.

In addition to that and the flaws noted by David, I would add that Stratas is
completely defeated by the coluratura requirement of the part, which is
unfortunate. Better to watch her in Boehm's Salome instead....

Simon

[Josep Vilanova]

On 1/2/05 4:08 pm, in article cto9i...@drn.newsguy.com, "Simon Roberts"
<sd...@comcast.net> wrote:

> In addition to that and the flaws noted by David, I would add that Stratas is
> completely defeated by the coluratura requirement of the part, which is
> unfortunate. Better to watch her in Boehm's Salome instead....
>
> Simon
>

Stratas is defeated by the coloratura but, for once, I don't mind it, just
because of her amazing acting skills. She is, by far, the most convincing
acting soprano I've ever seen in any role. A friend of mine saw the video of
the Muti/Fabbricini production and told me her acting was also impressive,
but I haven't had the chance of checking it myself (it's not on DVD, is
it?).

josep

[Dan]

David,

<<I'm not sure which Callas Traviata to recommend>>

There's another one you didn't mention. It used to be around - I don't
know about now - but it's by far my favorite among the Callas
performances - the 1958 Covent Garden performance with Valetti as
terrific Alfredo and Resigno conducting. I think it's a great deal
better than Lisbon, which was a few months before. She's really living
the part and the last act really gets me every time I hear it.

<<Ponselle by reports that the performance finds her badly off­ form.
I would love to have somebody tell me I've been misinformed.>>

I haven't heard it in a long while but I can't say that it really
stands out in my memory. What I do remember
is that she transposes Sempre Libera down, which is more than a tad
jarring in context.

Dan Plante

[MINe 109]

In article <1107246508.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"david...@aol.com" <david...@aol.com> wrote:

Here's a taste for anyone interested:

http://www.keane-eyes.com/

A possible antidote:

http://weasleyismyking.org/boots/

Stephen

[benjo maso]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107273784.1...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>
> The highlights from Traviata with Wunderlich auf Deutsch are on DG.
> Cast includes Gueden and Fischer-Dieskau with Bartoletti conducting.

Yes, that's what I meant. My mistake.

Benjo Maso

[Don Rice]

I won't argue with that. (-:
I also have a Toscanini recording on some bizarre Italian pirate (I
assume) label which seems so much more relaxed and appropriate than the
original RCA lps which I heard repeatedly years ago when I was in
college. The tempos do not seem at all driven and the singers don't seem
to be struggling at all. Albanese may be an acquired taste but once
acquired, her voice is extraordinarily expressive. Peerce can be a trial
as well because of the forced sound of his natural voice but he's pretty
relaxed here also. I therefore would recommend this recording if you can
find it - it's on the "Lyrica" label. I believe I found it at Berkshire.
Don

[david...@aol.com]

Believe it or not, Dan, I had intended to e-mail you and invite you
over to rmcr to do a run-down on the live Callas Traviata's. (I
assumed you'd be up to the task.) Does the one with Valetti and
Rescigno have Zanasi as Germont? I've always wanted to figure out
which Callas Violetta I prefer, but in addition to all the non-Callas
Traviata's I have or have heard, I have the Cetra studio recording with
Callas and the Scala with Di Stefano, Bastianini, and Giulini, and I've
heard the Lisbon, so there's not a crying need.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

Rolf mentioned some of his favorite "historic fragments." Let me add a
plug for the recording of the duet for Violetta and Germont in Act II
with Galli-Curci and De Luca.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

In response to my scrupulous remarks about Gianni Poggi's Alfredo, Mr.
Conrad asked why anybody "should" listen to it, given all of the
disqualifying features I mentioned. Well, listeners "should" do
whatever they choose, and there are reasons why they might even choose
to listen to Poggi.

Among fanciers of singing, I am almost uniquely indifferent to the
actual sound of voices and vocal production if other circumstances are
favorable (although I am also capable of appreciating sheerly gorgeous
vocalism if the singer has more than that to offer). Knowing that,
long-time contibutors will heed my warning and avoid Mr. Poggi's
Alfredo, which at moment after moment makes even me wince. I, on the
other hand, have not avoided Mr. Protti's Alfredo for the simple fact
that he appears in a problematically cast but incomparably conducted
performance, and one can't take Maestro Molinari-Pradelli and leave Mr.
Poggi. One consequence of this is that I'm very familiar with those of
Mr. Poggi's instincts that are revealed in his performance despite his
singing narrowly defined, and one reason that one might listen to
Signor Poggi is to hear, as if preserved in amber, not only the record
of an old fashioned "provincial" approach to vocal expression
characteristic of many Italian opera singers in a less purist era but
also evidence of a manner of phrasing, homespun but expressive,
characteristic of that same tradition, evidence revealed in the
performance of a singer whose intentions are very often if not
invariably far less crude than his often unfortunate vocal production.
Now I would never hold up Poggi as the very model of the ideal Alfredo
even in his instincts, but he has instincts, and they're very often
good ones. I'm not even sure that I like Poggi's performance. Like's
not the right word. But I've come to admire crucial aspects of it, and
there are even passages in it when its glaring deficiencies are held in
abeyance long enough that its modest but expressive virtues come
shining through untarnished.

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

Benjo ask, "By the way, do you know Krips' live Traviata (Vienna 1971)

on Arkadia with Cotrubas as the most moving Violetta I have ever heard

[ . . . ] Gedda [ . . . ] and Cornell MacNeil (not at his best)."

Unfortunately, I haven't heard it, although you make it sound very
tempting. Gedda's in good voice? 1971 was already a bit late for him
(and for MacNeil).

-david gable

[Dan]

<<Believe it or not, Dan, I had intended to e-mail you and inv­ite you

over to rmcr to do a run-down on the live Callas Traviata's.­ (I
assumed you'd be up to the task.) Does the one with Valetti­ and
Rescigno have Zanasi as Germont?

Yes, Mario Zanasi is Germont. I have no idea if this version is
available these days. I got mine sometime in the late 80s on the
pirate label Virtuoso for cheap. If you come across it, it's really
worth it and if you need to, trade Cetra and EMI in to make room.

<<I've always wanted to figu­re out which Callas Violetta I prefer,
but in addition to all the n­on-Callas Traviata's I have or have
heard, I have the Cetra studio rec­ording with Callas and the Scala
with Di Stefano, Bastianini, and Giulin­i, and I've heard the Lisbon,

so there's not a crying need.>>

One has to be rational about these things and I don't blame you. There
are actually quite a few Callas Traviatas floating around.

There are two from Mexico City. Of them, the first from 1951 is
interesting. She was new to the role and even though it's uneven, some
moments really show that she's making a connection. I have it on LP
and haven't heard it in ages but I remember liking the opening scena on
Act 1. But, it's only for for people who want to trace her Violettas
over her career.

There's also a Mexico City performance from 1952 that's really
not very good from what a Mariaphile friend of mine tells me. The
singing isn't very sensitive. I haven't heard it. However, while she
had a halfway decent conductor for 1951, di Fabriitis. In 1952 the
cast is conducted by a bandmaster - a mariachi band. Mugnai You
really have to hear her 1952 Rigoletto with the same conductor to
realize how awful this guy is. Callas wasn't often very good when she
had to put up with a clutz on the podium.

Her only studio recording was for Cetra, in 1953 (I've also read 1952).
It's really sad she did it then because she was only just beginning to
get into the character. Besides, the whole production is more than
slightly provincial. But having done it, she was then prevented by her
Cetra contract to do it for another label for a good while. This is
why she didn't make one for EMI. She and Legge wanted to.

There are two from La Scala (and Giullini). The one most people know
is from 1955. Personally, of all of Callas Traviatas I know, I think
her voice is the most dependable on this one. If I were to make a
selection of excerpts of a Callas Traviata for someone, or suggest a
Callas Traviata for someone who wanted an introduction to her art, this
is definitely the one I'd pick. But, I still don't think she was
"there" yet in terms of the character.

There is also a Guilini/La Scala performance from 1956. There is a new
Alfredo. I've never heard it.

1958 - Lisbon Traviata. This is pretty pedestrian stuff. The only
reason that this has become so well known is because EMI got the rights
for the air check and put it out with lots of marketing. Ghioni is
very clunky and she never gave her best when others were not with her
in what she wanted to do.

1958 - Covent Garden. This one tears my heart out. The sound on
Virtuoso seems like it was recorded off the air with a microphone in
front of somone's radio, with some fine-tuning done on the frequency
throughout the Overture. (I'm not kidding!) Also, her voice seems not
to have been well rested and is iffy in spots. But - if one can get
through those things, the performance is really special. To my
imagination, at least, she IS Violetta from first note to last and you
sense that she KNOWS more than she ever lets on in Act 1. Roscigno is
with her from beginning to end, the cast is really fine, and she gives
150%. Occasional vocal problems are not even a consideration as far as
I'm concerned. If I could only have only one Callas Violetta, this is
the one I'd keep without a moment's hesitation.
So, that's my quickie line-up on Callas and Traviata.

Dan Plante

[david...@aol.com]

Ivailo Partchev remarked that "The Caballe/Bergonzi/Pretre is lovingly
prepared [ . . . ] If only she had invested about the same amount of

work in preparing her subsequent roles..."

I know exactly what you mean, but do you know the more or less
contemporaneous RCA Lucrezia Borgia and Verdi Rarities recital?
Mercifully, they at least are cut from similar cloth.

-david gable

[Richard Loeb]

I enjoy going back to Caballe for the truly sensational vocalism but I
really don't go to her for flashes of interpretive inspiration.. The studio
Lucrezia did not find her in the same voice she was for the really
stupendous Carnegie Hall 65 performance (but I don't really care since I
think the whole opera is a deadly bore with nary a whit of the interest that
Lucia has) but I do enjoy when she sings arias out of context - her Verdi
rarities is also awfully good. The Traviata is good to hear but I really
don;t get much in the way of who Violetta is from her and the coloratura is
not the wonderful thing it was supposed to be.Needless to say we don't have
that kind of vocalism today - the voice itself could be astonishingly
beautiful. Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107319863....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[david...@aol.com]

When John Conrad confesses with admirable candor that "I just don't
like Carteri," adding that he's "not sure if she wasn't in good form"
or whether he's simply "immune to the charms of the 1940s-50s 'Italian
prima donna' timbre, with its touches of acidity and harshness," he's
confessing to a bias exactly opposite mine. So perhaps it's not
surprising that we disagree on Carlo del Monte's Alfredo in the
performance with de los Angeles and Serafin.

I think his voice is an attractive enough "Italian lyric tenor" voice
well produced, and his performance is far from what I'd call provincial
. . . much farther than Di Stefano's, Tucker's, or Poggi's, that's for
sure. I think he's a rather stylish singer, and I think his
performance is ardently and convincingly acted: the guy really gets
inside Alfredo's shoes.

Given that Mario Sereni is a solid and musical Germont with a
reasonably rich facsimile of an authentic "Verdi baritone," and given
that the wonderfully convincing interactions among De los Angeles, Del
Monte, and Sereni are those of an alert ensemble cast perfectly in
character, I'd say the Traviata with De los Angeles and Serafin comes
pretty close to being a "superbly coherent whole."

-david gable

[david...@aol.com]

Richard claims Caballe was in better voice for Lucrezia Borgia at
Carnegie Hall, but it's simply not true. In that sense, the
live-is-always-better-than-studio dogma simply does not hold water, and
for obvious reasons: all things being equal--and the studio recording
doesn't date from 40 years later--it could hardly have been less
ravishing in the studio where any mistakes could be corrected. I'll
admit she was more exciting at Carnegie Hall, but the voice was
ravishing in either case.

As for the superiority of Lucia di Lamermoor to Lucrezia Borgia, I
absolutely do not see it. There's not one movement in Lucia (for the
soprano or anybody else, but Lucia gets the opera's weakest music)
remotely on the level of the magnificent double aria for Lucrezia in
the prologue, and the mad scene from Lucia is the most threadbare thing
Donizetti ever tossed off, at least beginning with Anna Bolena in 1830.
-david gable

[Richard Loeb]

No you are just plain wrong - more than one person has heard what I heard -
she was not in best voice for the Lucrezia studio session - I can do no more
than sum up Osborne "in the studio I hear a performance full of glottal
clucks, who cannot trill at all, who can't sing passing notes except as part
of a smeared portamento, and (worst of all for me and this never changed
with her), her floated pianissimi were not part of a finely graded dynamic
spectrum but were the product of a detached head voice not cleanly joined to
the rest of her vocalism" Now I'm not saying that these issues weren't there
in the live performance; I'm saying she was in better voice for the live
performance.. It has nothing to do with live vs. studio in a general sense -
I didn't say that - you say that and I don;t appreciate words being put in
my mouth.
As for the opera, it is so mechanical, the people so uninteresting and
foolish. Some of the arias are nice, but where is the urgency or personal
motivations - sometimes there is a reason operas get relegated to the second
shelf, because they are second rate and Lucrezia should and will never have
the popularity that Lucia does and for good reason. Cheers Richard

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107325803.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

[Richard Loeb]

Being a de los Angles fan; I am surprised that I don;t
respond to her Violetta but I don't. The voice is beautiful and the style is
right but I don't get much in the way of personality at all from her, there
is something almost calculating about the performance.. It just kind of sits
there esp. in the second Act where frankly I had a problem keeping my
attention when she and Sereni were singing. There was a natural reserve in
her singing that mitigated some of the roles she sang, her Santuzza is
another case though admittedly an extreme one, but I do think the constant
holding back affects her Violetta. As for dal Monte, I go along with
Conrad - perhaps not provincial but hardly the kind of Alfredo that
warrented preservation on recordings. or to be compared with Bergonzi,
Valetti among his other studio rivals. Cheers Richard

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message p. in the second Act where frankly I
had a roblem keeping my
attention.news:1107325033.5...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[benjo maso]

<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107312460....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Gedda was in excellent voice (he sings the cabaletta by the way), for
MacNeil it was indeed a bit late. There is no Italian in the cast and not
all the comprimari are quite idiomatic. I see that you think that Cotrubas
is not an adequate. It's true that she is more credible as the suffering
consumptive than as the radiant centre of the Parisian demi-monde. It's also
true that she is not quite up to the technically most difficult passages of
her role, and it's perhaps significant that she particularly good in the
reading of the letter and the parlando-passage at the end (infinitely more
convincing than in the Kleiber-recording). But on the whole I think her
interpretation is one of the most moving ever recorded.

Benjo Maso

[david...@aol.com]

Richard firmly believes Caballe "was not in the best voice for the
studio Lucrezia." All I can say is we should all sing so poorly. I
can't imagine an example of singing qua singing from any singer better
than Caballe's performance of the double aria from the prologue in the
studio recording. By what impossibly lofty standard can this
technically incomparable singing with its even and effortless
production throughout the entire range and its sustained legato
characterized by the most ravishing floated pianissimos possibly be
found wanting? As for Conrad L. Osborne hearing nothing but glottal
stops, I don't know a performance by Gencer or Caballe devoid of them
including the Carnegie Hall Lucrezia Borgia, and I'm not going to stop
listening to either singer. (Then, too, there is often the jealously
guarded sense of "I was there" in the automatic preference for live
over studio, especially when a live performance leads to a studio
performance as when Caballe's triumph in Lucrezia Borgia at Carnegie
Hall lead RCA to record the opera with her, although it's also true
often enough that the excitement is not preserved in the studio.)
-david gable

[Ivailo Partchev]

Sure, we've spoken about that. And then, there is Kraus in it:
everything that Donizetti wrote lovingly and gracefully supplied, sigh...

> -david gable
>

[Ivailo Partchev]

david...@aol.com wrote:

> confessing to a bias exactly opposite mine. So perhaps it's not
> surprising that we disagree on Carlo del Monte's Alfredo in the
> performance with de los Angeles and Serafin.
>
> I think his voice is an attractive enough "Italian lyric tenor" voice
> well produced, and his performance is far from what I'd call provincial

I think he was Mexican BTW. Fond memories of Gianni Schicchi, possibly
the only really youthful-sounding Rinuccio on record. Poggi is the most
horrible tenor I have ever heard in the Italian repertoire.

> -david gable
>

[Richard Loeb]

David - take it easy there - I didn't say she sang poorly - I said that she
sang better in the live performance than in the studio set - the studio set
was over a year after the live performance and a lot can happen in that
period of time, for better or worse. And for some reason you again bring up
the preference of live over studio as some kind of generality on my part- I
never said that live is better than studio (it would be foolish to say so) I
said that Caballe sang better in the live performance than in the later
studio- that is all. I say again that I enjoy listening to her - her breath
control was unbelievable and the voice could be ravishing - but it wasn't
perfect and I try to be aware and objective of the pluses and minuses. I saw
her quite a few times in the sixties and seventies and almost invariably
left the theatre with a mixture of awe (in the vocalism) and frustration
(that she didn't communicate more to myself and others in a dramatic way)- I
am not even particularly enamoured of the vaunted 74 Orange performance of
Norma except in a relative way to her other performances of the role. The
albums I usually pull out when I want to here her are the Rarities sets she
did for RCA in the 60s and, surprisingly, the Puccini set under Mackerras
which has an incredible rendition of the aria for Rondine. best Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107364561....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[MIFrost]

Richard Loeb wrote:
> Being a de los Angles fan;

If Victoria de los Angeles married Dickens' Artful Dodger would she be
.... ?

MIFrost

[Simon Roberts]

In article <1107364561....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
david...@aol.com says...

>
>Richard firmly believes Caballe "was not in the best voice for the
>studio Lucrezia." All I can say is we should all sing so poorly. I
>can't imagine an example of singing qua singing from any singer better
>than Caballe's performance of the double aria from the prologue in the
>studio recording. By what impossibly lofty standard can this
>technically incomparable singing with its even and effortless
>production throughout the entire range and its sustained legato
>characterized by the most ravishing floated pianissimos possibly be
>found wanting?

Is it as good as her Norma on DVD? I've not heard as much of her as you have,
and I don't think I've heard the Lucrezia, but among those I have heard, that
Norma is in a class by itself (especially the last 10 minutes or so).

Simon

[david...@aol.com]

Richard, I have the live and studio performances, and I've never heard
a more technically secure or jaw dropping piece of vocalism by anybody
ever than Caballe's extremely remarkable performance of the double aria
in the Prologue in the studio set [RCA Lucrezia Borgia]. If there are
any flaws to be found there, I haven't been able to detect them. The
live one is no better. Now I haven't listened to the rest of the opera
in quite some time. Maybe she's appreciably better in the rest of the
opera at Carnegie Hall, but that's not my recollection. I do prefer
the live performance overall because I find it more exciting. But I
don't think there's the slightest suggestion of a decline in the course
of the year separating these two performances from the mid-60's by a
still reasonably young singer reasonably early in her career. I don't
think there's so much as a hint of a decline until the 70's, when,
increasingly, a harsh edge began to overtake her louder singing in the
upper register.

I already expressed reservations about Caballe's "expressivity" similar
to yours in my very first contribution to this thread. Still, like
Ivailo, I think her very first RCA recordings, including the Traviata,
Lucrezia Borgia, and "Rarities" recitals, find her more involved than
she was in later studio efforts.

-david gable

[Richard Loeb]

David - PLEASE read my postings - I never said there was a decline - I am
speaking of exactly TWO performances - one better than the other - I said
nothing about the other roles she did around the same time or later or how
she sounded - geez! Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107379017.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[david...@aol.com]

Richard, you say you never said there was a decline. How am I to
interpret your statement that the studio Borgia was made a year later
"and a lot can happen in a year"?

-david

[Richard Loeb]

David - come on now - it can mean she wasn't feellng well one week or one
day before the studio recording- who knows (or cares). I was just comparing
two performances. Lets see if I can set it straight this way - a number of
her recordings that were done later are vocally (and interpretively)
wonderful - e,g, the Salome which really surprised me how she was tuned into
the German idiom and the Puritani (with a surprisingly elastic Muti) I would
have to work very hard to find any fault whatever with those two
performances - I think there is also a Stuarda I have somewhere which has
one of the most extraordinary examples of breath control I ever heard she
sings over a chorus FOREVER and then when you think she'll stop she actually
expands the tone - when I picked up my jaw (which had dropped on the floor)
I went on to the rest of the performance which was awfully good - so, you
see, no decline there Cheers Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107384627.8...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[david...@aol.com]

Actually, in the Puritani with Muti, decent as it is, Caballe's in
palpably less good shape than more than a decade earlier in the RCA
Lucrezia Borgia. For example, her interjections in Kraus's (absolutely
stunning) "A te, o, cara," a harsh edge gradually emerges as she swells
on sustained high notes, and she's much less graceful coming down off
those same notes than she would have been in the 60's. Muti is a
miracle in that "A te, o, cara," though.

Don't know the Salome, although you're the second person to recommend
it to me on this newsgroup in a fortnight.

-david gable

[Richard Loeb]

The Salome is a nice antidote to the hysteria that goes on in some of the
other recording--I always liked Leinsdorf in Strauss since the music plays
to his strong points - the cast is very good though some of the supporting
cast is a bit "British' but Caballe is really something, the tone is girlish
but every phrase is knowing and true and she has a feel for the Straussian
line - you should try it Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107396924....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

[Richard Loeb]

You can check the Salome out on the Tower website Richard
<david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107396924....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

[Andrew T. Kay]

David Gable wrote:

[...]
>Don't know the (Caballé/Leinsdorf) Salome, although you're the second person

to recommend
>it to me on this newsgroup in a fortnight.

I shall not be a third. I'm often a fan of Caballé and Milnes (emphatically
including their shared TRAVIATA), and they were in peak vocal health when this
was made, but they seem to me to inhabit the wrong planet for it, musically,
stylistically and interpretively. The soprano is in her gossamer-monotonous
mode throughout, and that's even more bothersome when, as here, she's out of
her idiomatic comfort zone. Yes, there are some beautiful soft high notes,
that's not exactly worth stopping the presses for. (With Resnik and Leinsdorf
on hand too, they're just an Italianate tenor and a coloratura soprano away
from a pretty good UN BALLO IN MASCHERA cast; it's a shame they're doing
SALOME.)

This is a case when I think That British Magazine got it right, in its
unequivocal dismissal of this during the SALOME survey in the current issue.
(Of course, they -- and I -- give very high marks to Karajan/Behrens, so add
salt to taste...)

--Todd K

[Richard Loeb]

No I don't agree - Caballe is spot on from her very first line - monotonous
is one word I wouldn't use - in fact I was surprised how detailed it was.
Re: That British Magazine - they got it wrong (again!!) Cheers Richard
"Andrew T. Kay" <lastredl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050203003517...@mb-m10.aol.com...

[Andrew T. Kay]

Simon Roberts wrote:

>that (Caballé/Vickers/Veasey)
Norma is in a class by itself (especially the last 10 minute­s or so).

Simon, you recommended that to me ages ago, and I only got around to it last
week, having found a startlingly cheap still-wrapped copy for auction
somewhere. It is indeed something special on musical grounds, and, of course,
the mistral so enriches the atmosphere of the performance that it should have
received a production co-credit. The big surprise for me was Vickers's
tremendously effective Pollione, which leaves in the dust most of his recorded
competition. What a pleasure it is to hear a tenor in this part who, in every
sense, has the stature to suggest a real partnership with the Norma. I so
rarely enjoy him in Italian opera (Otello aside); I was not prepared. Doubters,
do give it a look: Caballé is not only at her most plugged-in and non-bland
here, she's also surprisingly *more* diligent and precise with the florid parts
than on her RCA studio recording, where she tends to be a bit smeary and lax in
her articulation. (I'd have expected the reverse, of course, because in the
studio she'd presumably have all the time she needed to go for the gold. I
wonder if her submissive hand-picked conductor, Cillario, should get some of
the blame.) Veasey and Ferrin are splendid, and Patane simply heroic in
difficult circumstances.

I do wish that it *looked* a little better, though. From what I've read, this
DVD is actually an improvement on previous incarnations, but the picture is
*very* dark, the camerawork pedestrian to put it kindly, and the film's source
material looks so soft and blurred that facial detail in all but the closest
shots is anyone's guess.

--Todd K

[Andrew T. Kay]

Simon Roberts wrote:

<<You already have my favorite studio recording, Kleiber's, though the reasons
why
are more-or-less limited to Cotrubas and (pace David G) Kleiber.>>

I like it mostly for the singers, but agree that, of them, Cotrubas is the
major draw. Her male colleagues are tasteful and attractive, but have done more
inspired and memorable work elsewhere, both together (FANCIULLA) and
separately. And Domingo's sound always strikes me as a bit bulky for this part.

<< I also
wouldn't want to be without the best sung Alfredo, Bergonzi's for Sutherland
(better than on the Caballe/Pretre set, which I don't care for; then again,
Sutherland and Pritchard are hardly ideal)>>

We differ here. I hear little to choose between Bergonzi with Sutherland and
Bergonzi with Caballé -- he seems to me close to ideal casting and in fine
voice both times, and I find the company he keeps on the RCA recording so far
preferable that I was able to jettison the Sutherland. Neither recording is
anything special as conducting goes; I guess I'd give a barely perceptible nod
in the direction of Pretre.

About Caballé, I'll chime in here that while she isn't as subtle as Callas,
Scotto, or Cotrubas, there's one thing that she absolutely nails as well as
anyone ever has done it on record, and that's the nature of Violetta's grace,
poise, and refinement. That's not *all* there is to the character, of course,
and I'll grant that other sopranos have cut deeper with the desperation and
anguish; but her Violetta is a lady with a capital "L," and when Germont Sr. in
their first encounter breathes, "Such manners!" we know precisely what he
means.

--Todd K

[Simon Roberts]

In article <20050203003517...@mb-m10.aol.com>, Andrew T. Kay says...

>
>David Gable wrote:
>
>[...]
>>Don't know the (Caballé/Leinsdorf) Salome, although you're the second person
>to recommend
>>it to me on this newsgroup in a fortnight.
>
>I shall not be a third. I'm often a fan of Caballé and Milnes (emphatically
>including their shared TRAVIATA), and they were in peak vocal health when this
>was made, but they seem to me to inhabit the wrong planet for it, musically,
>stylistically and interpretively. The soprano is in her gossamer-monotonous
>mode throughout, and that's even more bothersome when, as here, she's out of
>her idiomatic comfort zone. Yes, there are some beautiful soft high notes,
>that's not exactly worth stopping the presses for.

That's pretty much my reaction too. Nor is the conducting anything to write
home about. (And, although I can often hear, in recordings I don't like, what
others like about them, I just don't here.)

Simon

[Simon Roberts]

In article <20050203005647...@mb-m10.aol.com>, Andrew T. Kay says...

>I do wish that it *looked* a little better, though. From what I've read, this
>DVD is actually an improvement on previous incarnations, but the picture is
>*very* dark, the camerawork pedestrian to put it kindly, and the film's source
>material looks so soft and blurred that facial detail in all but the closest
>shots is anyone's guess.

Yes, it's unfortunate; you would think it was some amateurish pirate effort.
The Tristan looks similar, if I remember right.

Simon

[jrs...@aol.com]

Don Rice wrote:
> david...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Don thinks "Gheorgiu is a wonderful actress," but "much too
gorgeous
> > and healthy looky to really portray a consumptive." As suspension
of
> > disbelief goes, better that than a Violetta ample and matronly.
> > -david gable
> >
> I won't argue with that. (-:
> I also have a Toscanini recording on some bizarre Italian pirate (I
> assume) label which seems so much more relaxed and appropriate than
the
> original RCA lps which I heard repeatedly years ago when I was in
> college. The tempos do not seem at all driven and the singers don't
seem
> to be struggling at all. Albanese may be an acquired taste but once
> acquired, her voice is extraordinarily expressive. Peerce can be a
trial
> as well because of the forced sound of his natural voice but he's
pretty
> relaxed here also. I therefore would recommend this recording if you
can
> find it - it's on the "Lyrica" label. I believe I found it at
Berkshire.
> Don

Is this really another recording? The Lyrica releases I've seen look
like the same as the RCA. Of course, there is the rehearsal on Music
and Arts... Is Toscanini's singing audible on the Lyrica?

--Jeff

[Don Rice]

It's not another recording but it is filtered quite a bit and sounds
much less harsh than I remember the original lps. One can almost always
hear AT singing along, but I'm not sure whether this is really the
rehearsal or just another incarnation of the live broadcast recording.
This is also the only Lyrica recording I own.
Don

--
(To email me put a "1" between the "don" and the "rice")

[Mitchell Kaufman]

Richard Loeb <loe...@comcast.net> wrote:

> The albums I usually pull out when I want to here her are the Rarities
> sets she did for RCA in the 60s and, surprisingly, the Puccini set under
> Mackerras which has an incredible rendition of the aria for Rondine. best
> Richard

Why "surprisingly?" The Caballé Puccini album is one of the greatest
recital discs ever made.

MK