Haha! Zweden ditches the NYPhil and denies a Concertgebouw connection

[mswd...@gmail.com]

The news is at the NYTimes and elsewhere, most likely. The idea that Zweden would be with the NYPhil for a shorter span than Alan Gilbert is quite a punchline for all the hoopla about this marriage. He denies in interest in the Concertgebouw, but... why else would he do this?

So who would you like to see at the NYPhil?

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:34:48 PM UTC-5, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> The news is at the NYTimes and elsewhere, most likely. The idea that Zweden would be with the NYPhil for a shorter span than Alan Gilbert is quite a punchline for all the hoopla about this marriage. He denies in interest in the Concertgebouw, but... why else would he do this?
>
> So who would you like to see at the NYPhil?

Reading the whole article, you also wonder if Jaap was just a bull enough to find the NYPhil not submissive enough. I talked with someone who played under him and they found him, putting it politely, rather unpleasant. So maybe it isn't the RCO. But why else would he announce give up both his main appointments?

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 16 September 2021 at 12:50:11 UTC+10, mswd...com wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:34:48 PM UTC-5, mswd...com wrote:
> > The news is at the NYTimes and elsewhere, most likely. The idea that Zweden would be with the NYPhil for a shorter span than Alan Gilbert is quite a punchline for all the hoopla about this marriage. He denies in interest in the Concertgebouw, but... why else would he do this?
> >
> > So who would you like to see at the NYPhil?

They won't get Rattle which should relieve everyone.

> Reading the whole article, you also wonder if Jaap was just a bull enough to find the NYPhil not submissive enough. I >talked with someone who played under him and they found him, putting it politely, rather unpleasant. So maybe it isn't >the RCO. But why else would he announce give up both his main appointments?

He has said in a recent NY Times article that he isn't interested in becoming chief of the RCO, but who knows really? As for his unpleasantness, Van Zweden is very direct, and probably hurts unwittingly some delicate feelings.

This is an older article about Jaap van Zweden.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/01/arts/music/jaap-van-zweden-philharmonics-maestro-to-be-sharpens-his-baton.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

Ray Hall, Taree

[Herman]

For some reason Slipped Disc has nothing on Van Zweden's stepping down, which probably means it's not that easy to find out what's going on.

I would not be too sure the Concertgebouw would have Van Zweden. Not because he's no good, but they seem to be very much into no-conflict, gentle fine-tuners since Chailly.

[Chris J.]

On 15 Sep 2021 raymond....@gmail.com wrote:

>> > The news is at the NYTimes and elsewhere, most likely. The idea that
>> > Zweden would be with the NYPhil for a shorter span than Alan Gilbert

The news has even reached the Idaho Statesman. Must be important.

www.idahostatesman.com/entertainment/article254271983.html

Why such a fuss, I wonder. His contract expires in 2024, when he's 63.
Perhaps he wants to work closer to home.

>> > So who would you like to see at the NYPhil?

> They won't get Rattle which should relieve everyone.

Everyone? Perhaps not the Brits?
However:

www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/simon-rattle-applies-for-german-
citizenship-brexit

>> I talked with someone
>> who played under him and they found him, putting it politely, rather
>> unpleasant. So maybe it isn't >the RCO. But why else would he announce
>> give up both his main appointments?

> He has said in a recent NY Times article that he isn't interested in
> becoming chief of the RCO, but who knows really? As for his
> unpleasantness, Van Zweden is very direct, and probably hurts
> unwittingly some delicate feelings.

I don't think the RCO want to wait until 2024.

'Very direct"?

www.learndutch.org/dutch-culture/dutch-directness-how-to-deal-with-the-
dutch/

www.bbc.com/travel/article/20180131-where-dutch-directness-comes-from

Directness can often simplify matters a great deal and safe time. Time
which can be used to rehearse and make an orchestra better for instance.

Chris

[Herman]

I can't help but notice the Dutch reports on Van Zweden stepping down don't even mention any connection to the RCO looking for a conductor.

[HT]

Op donderdag 16 september 2021 om 09:31:51 UTC+2 schreef Chris J.:

In my experience, there is no positive correlation between Dutch directness and unpleasantness. You may have to get used to it, but it is never really painful. There is, however, a positive correlation between Dutch rudeness (treasured here as the US treasures the right to bear arms) and unpleasantness.

Henk

[Chris J.]

On 16 Sep 2021 Herman wrote:

> I can't help but notice the Dutch reports on Van Zweden stepping down
> don't even mention any connection to the RCO looking for a conductor.

So who are the likely candidates?

Chris

[Andrew Clarke]

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 5:31:51 PM UTC+10, Chris J. wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2021 raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> > The news is at the NYTimes and elsewhere, most likely. The idea that
> >> > Zweden would be with the NYPhil for a shorter span than Alan Gilbert
> The news has even reached the Idaho Statesman. Must be important.
>
> www.idahostatesman.com/entertainment/article254271983.html
>
> Why such a fuss, I wonder. His contract expires in 2024, when he's 63.
> Perhaps he wants to work closer to home.
> >> > So who would you like to see at the NYPhil?
>
> > They won't get Rattle which should relieve everyone.
> Everyone? Perhaps not the Brits?

Oh, I don't know. He makes all the right liberal noises. He's avoided conducting the Last Night of the P(r)oms because he thinks there are jingoistic elements there, and he's violently anti-Brexit, hence the change in nationality. As we know, there are no jingoistic elements in American culture are there now? Apparently he got on well with the Philadelphia Orchestra, and it was even rumoured that he was offered a post there, but turned it down, according to Wikipedia anyway.

There have been reservations about his tenure at Berlin, of course:

<https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/sep/20/classicalmusicandopera>

What is odd here is that The Guardian is a British newspaper and a lefty one at that. Perhaps British opinion is not quite as solidly jingoistic as people like to imagine?

> www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/simon-rattle-applies-for-german-
> citizenship-brexit

Three cheers for Sir Simon! He's leaving a country steeped in colonialism and antisemitism and going to a country which has never had any expansionist ambitions whatsoever and where antisemitism is unknown.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[E. Robles]

Dudamel must certainly be on the list.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

I really don't know what they want, but they did seem to like Jansons, and Jansons did nearly everything in the central rep (can't recall any Wagner or Nielsen, but I feel like I've seen almost everything else.). Gatti seemed to have similar pretensions even if there weren't as many recordings. Is this Gustavo's profile?

[Herman]

I'm having a very hard time imagining Dudamel being a serious contender for the RCO chief conductorship, but what do I know? TBH, although I live pretty close by, the RCO has stopped being my favorite orchestra since Mariss Jansons, who turned the orchestra into something pretty close to Classic FM in terms of programming.
When I think of Jansons I see his emaciated figure trying to beat his way out of Louis Andriessen's Mysteriën, a supergentle late work commissioned by the orchestra. He was clearly thinking 'why can't I just do Tchaikovsky of Bruckner for the nth time instead of this crazy new stuff' - unaware that there was a time when Bruckner was crazy new stuff, too.
The way I look at it, the appointment of Jaap van Zweden is a no-brainer. The man has deep roots in the orchestra and is a fantastic genuine musician-conductor, rather than a star baton flipper. His programming in New York was terrific; if he'd continue like this the RCO would become an exciting orchestra once again, rather than this plush beauty machine it has made of itself, a dying museum institution.
The RCO had an international tour in 2009 with Dudamel, which is always referred to as having been 'great', so I guess he passed the chemistry test, which usually, with orchestras means he just let them be.
We'll see. They might as well spend some more time without a chief conductor. The Vienna is doing to bad without one...

[Herman]

The Vienna isn't doing too bad without one...

[Herman]

Looking at Dudamel's discography and repertoire I see a lot of big splashy pieces, like the Verdi Requiem and Mahler 8. Mahler 8 is not a fun piece to play for an orchestra.
A lot of Dudamel's signature music is of an extravert loud sort, allowing for a lot of conductor jumps and sweat, that doesn't align with the RCO's dna. But hey, you never know....

[MELMOTH]

Herman a écrit :

> I'm having a very hard time imagining Dudamel being a serious contender for
> the RCO chief conductorship

Dudamel became conductor of the Paris Opera Orchestra...

[Herman]

I know. However, many top conductors do two jobs, just to pay the rent...

Mariss Jansons was conducting the RCO and the BRSO at the same time, and it was no secret he liked the latter better.

[Chris J.]

On 17 Sep 2021 Herman wrote:

> I'm having a very hard time imagining Dudamel being a serious contender
> for the RCO chief conductorship, but what do I know? TBH, although I
> live pretty close by, the RCO has stopped being my favorite orchestra
> since Mariss Jansons, who turned the orchestra into something pretty
> close to Classic FM in terms of programming.

A recent rumour, heard by a Dutch friend of the neighbour of someone who
knows an employee of the RCO who heard something not meant for his ears.
Or something like that. Or perhaps simply:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/arts/music/review-concertgebouw-daniel-
harding.html

https://riga-jurmala.com/programme/concertgebouworkest-daniel-harding-
yefim-bronfman-piano/

Daniel Harding?

Chris

[Herman]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 12:53:19 PM UTC+2, Chris J. wrote:

>
> Daniel Harding?
>
> Chris

Harding has done a successful international tour with the RCO, which is a good way of getting to know a conductor.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 5:53:19 AM UTC-5, Chris J. wrote:
> Daniel Harding?

Harding's commitments are thin enough that if they wanted to announce him, they could have done so already.

[J.A.W.]

According to an article about possible future chief conductors of the Concertgebouw I read last year they don't want Van Zweden or Dudamel, and earlier this year I heard on the radio that Iván Fischer had turned them down. Nelsons extended his contracts in Boston and Leipzig, so he's out too.

For me the last great principal conductor they had was Chailly, but apparently they had grown tired of him, or at least that's what I heard on the radio some time ago. No idea if that's true. Jansons wasn't a favourite of mine, and neither was his successor, Gatti.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, September 18, 2021 at 8:51:33 PM UTC-5, J.A.W. wrote:
> According to an article about possible future chief conductors of the Concertgebouw I read last year they don't want Van Zweden or Dudamel, and earlier this year I heard on the radio that Iván Fischer had turned them down. Nelsons extended his contracts in Boston and Leipzig, so he's out too.
>
> For me the last great principal conductor they had was Chailly, but apparently they had grown tired of him, or at least that's what I heard on the radio some time ago. No idea if that's true. Jansons wasn't a favourite of mine, and neither was his successor, Gatti.

Fits with what I've heard. But try to explain Zweden giving up New York and Hong Kong with nothing else awaiting him. Is it perhaps the case that the Concertgebouw didn't want him because they wanted an exclusive commitment? Given the way he was marketed as a god of music in New York, he has to be moving up, or else this is one of the oddest career trajectories ever.

[wanwan]

Harding has opened the last two Concertgebouw Orchestra seasons.

[Herman]

I largely share JAW's assessment. Dudamel and Van Zweden wil likely remain guest conductors. I too think that Chailly was the last interesting chief conductor. And, no, not a single top orchestra demands an exclusive commitment, which would, among other things mean they'd be looking at the same guy and stick all year, and they don't want this. That's what provincial orchestras do.
It is not out of the question that Van Zweden quit for the reasons he's given. Sometimes people are honest and direct, and Van Zweden could well be one of those guys...
The Concertgebouw doesn't pick its conductors based on rational reasons. There has to be chemistry, but other than that it's anyone's guess why they chose, for instance, Gatti, who was definitely not their style of conductor, in terms of sound ideal and repertoire. I don't share Lebrecht's kneejerk pessimism*, but I do think the orchestra should really gets its stuff in shape. All of the people who have guided the orchestra through the eighties to aughts have retired now, and now there are just managers who reflexively say "Bruckner / Mahler!" when asked what the orchestra is about. The French component, integral to the foundations of the orchestra's sound is largely forgotten.
Also the musicians get paid ridiculously low salaries. Any other orchestra pays at least twice what you're getting in Amsterdam, and Amsterdam has long ceased to have a low cost of living. The current model is that guest conductors get enormous fees while the orchestra members get paid mid-level civil servant salaries. This is untenable in the long run.

* Lebrecht's idea that the RCO should have hung on to Haitink in the eighties is beyond ridiculous. Haitink needed to free himself from his Amsterdam roots and orchestras get tired of same old at some point. That's how it works. Lebrecht is talking like the proverbial armchair general who wants reality to conform to his cd collection.

[J.A.W.]

I agree with Herman that they should pay more attention to their French component, like one of my favourite chief conductors from the past, Eduard van Beinum, and his successor, Haitink, did.

The musicians should indeed get higher wages, it's a disgrace what they're getting now. If Amsterdam wants to keep its world class status, something should be done about that sooner rather than later.

[Reinhold Gliere]

Van Zweden and S. Chang going down that stupid staircase in the Concergebouw. One thing that's for sure if Itzhak Perlman was ever invited to play in that hall, he's not using that dumb staircase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpS_u5RvMpM

[HT]

Op maandag 20 september 2021 om 23:01:00 UTC+2 schreef uof...@gmail.com:

Chang knows how to descend those steps. Much more elegant than Yuja Wang, who made a shaky but loudly applauded entrance into the now-discontinued Meesterpianisten series.

Henk

[Andrew Clarke]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 8:21:23 PM UTC+10, J.A.W. wrote:
> I agree with Herman that they should pay more attention to their French component, like one of my favourite chief conductors from the past, Eduard van Beinum, and his successor, Haitink, did.

Then they might consider John Wilson, the director of the Sinfonia of London, who has a particular interest in French music and has recorded some, with excellent results. Or there's Immerseel in Brugge, but then if he's Flemish he might refuse to conduct any French music at all.

>
> The musicians should indeed get higher wages, it's a disgrace what they're getting now. If Amsterdam wants to keep its world class status, something should be done about that sooner rather than later.

How do their wages compare to those of London orchestral musicians?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 7:01:00 AM UTC+10, uof...@gmail.com wrote:

> Van Zweden and S. Chang going down that stupid staircase in the Concergebouw. One thing that's for sure if Itzhak Perlman was ever invited to play in that hall, he's not using that dumb staircase.

In the Eliot Gardiner semi-staged performance of "The Magic Flute" at the Concertgebouw, the Queen of the Night (Cyndia Sieden) makes her grand entrance down the other flight of stairs, borne aloft by half a dozen gentlemen. After the aria, she then has to run down the aisle to the doors at the back of the hall. Not only does she risk a broken neck if the guys get it wrong, there's nowhere for her to hide if she gets it wrong either. See
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE_f95sI0KA>
at 25' 43"

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Bob Harper]

Pretty Spectacular. A high wire act in more than one sense.

Bob Harper

[Chris J.]

On 20 Sep 2021 Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Then they might consider John Wilson, the director of the Sinfonia of
> London, who has a particular interest in French music and has recorded
> some, with excellent results.

I have never heard of a conductor John Wilson. That rules him out.:-)

> Or there's Immerseel in Brugge, but then
> if he's Flemish he might refuse to conduct any French music at all.

A joke? Jos Van Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Berlioz,
Debussy, Poulenc, Ravel. Bizet/Saint-Saëns concerts were cancelled
because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
However, Van Immerseel is too old.

> How do their wages compare to those of London orchestral musicians?

Difficult to compare.

"most of the playing members of orchestras in London are not provided
with salaries and are only paid per engagement. In other words, no play,
no pay!"

https://thefluteview.com/2021/02/why-i-left-the-london-symphony-orchestra/

https://musiciansunion.org.uk/working-performing/orchestral-work/
orchestral-agreements-and-rates-of-pay/orchestras-under-the-abo-mu-
agreement
(on one line)

UK freelance orchestral musicians and COVID-19 misery:

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.645967/full


Chris

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 6:49:30 PM UTC+10, Chris J. wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2021 Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> > Then they might consider John Wilson, the director of the Sinfonia of
> > London, who has a particular interest in French music and has recorded
> > some, with excellent results.
> I have never heard of a conductor John Wilson. That rules him out.:-)

He's good.

> > Or there's Immerseel in Brugge, but then
> > if he's Flemish he might refuse to conduct any French music at all.
> A joke? Jos Van Immerseel and Anima Eterna have recorded Berlioz,
> Debussy, Poulenc, Ravel. Bizet/Saint-Saëns concerts were cancelled
> because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
> However, Van Immerseel is too old.

It's sort of a joke but a bitter one. Flemings are notoriously antipathetic to the Language of Voltaire and to the Wallons who speak it. But how could somebody called Immer be too old? He's eternal, isn't he?

[HT]

Op dinsdag 21 september 2021 om 11:00:33 UTC+2 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:

With a few exceptions, all "Flamands" speak French (more or less fluently). A "Wallon" or "Bruxellois" forgets his 12 years of compulsory Dutch in primary and secondary school as quickly as possible. The language barrier is complete and one-sided, even among members of the same family. <g>

Henk

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 6:49:30 PM UTC+10, Chris J. wrote:

> > How do their wages compare to those of London orchestral musicians?
> Difficult to compare.
>
> "most of the playing members of orchestras in London are not provided
> with salaries and are only paid per engagement. In other words, no play,
> no pay!"
>
> https://thefluteview.com/2021/02/why-i-left-the-london-symphony-orchestra/
>
> https://musiciansunion.org.uk/working-performing/orchestral-work/
> orchestral-agreements-and-rates-of-pay/orchestras-under-the-abo-mu-
> agreement
> (on one line)
>
> UK freelance orchestral musicians and COVID-19 misery:
>
> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.645967/full

They have to be flexible to survive in the UK, especially now that the old Palm Court and other light music ensembles aren't there any more. So yes, there's film music, pop recording sessions, pit bands for musicals in London etc., plus of course teaching.

The Sinfonia of London is an interesting example of an orchestra that comes together for individual concerts and recordings, rather than committing itself to 'seasons'. Some of its musicians are known to be principals in other, more traditional orchestras. It's essentially Sinfonia of London III, the first originating in the 1950s - it made those classic recordings of Elgar and Vaughan Williams under Barbirolli - and the second being essentially a film music orchestra in the 1980s. The present band was started in 2018. These are hard times for the traditional 'symphony' especially without the government subsidies the German orchestras get, or the massive endowments of the big American ones, so going without the financial burdens of concert seasons and annual salaries might be the way to go?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[number_six]

Example -- I bet Kim Clijsters' French is better than JHH's Dutch.

But now you have me wondering what the Brel song Les Flamands is about. Youtube, here I come.

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 1:49:30 AM UTC-7, Chris J. wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2021 Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> > Then they might consider John Wilson, the director of the Sinfonia of
> > London, who has a particular interest in French music and has recorded
> > some, with excellent results.
> I have never heard of a conductor John Wilson. That rules him out.:-)

> Chris

Oh dear! You poor demented boy. Have at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGqdHXLr04I

I love it when the Brits do American music*! Don't you think the Concertgebouw could use a bit of John Wilson's glamorous sound? (The announcer herself assures us that that's what it is: glamorous! And. . . more glamor. . . more salary? I'm sure the Concertgebouw players could get behind that!)

;-)

*Wilson also has a very fine Copland series in progress on the Chandos label too!

[HT]

Op dinsdag 21 september 2021 om 21:50:09 UTC+2 schreef number_six:

<g> The title is 'Les Flamandes', a tribute to Flemish women.

Henk

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 3:05:01 PM UTC-5, Chris from Lafayette wrote:
> Oh dear! You poor demented boy. Have at it:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGqdHXLr04I

He's good! I'm on board! Wilson for The Concertgebouw! :-)

[Andrew Clarke]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:12:43 PM UTC+10, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

> With a few exceptions, all "Flamands" speak French (more or less fluently). A "Wallon" or "Bruxellois" forgets his 12 years of compulsory Dutch in primary and secondary school as quickly as possible. The language barrier is complete and one-sided, even among members of the same family. <g>
>

The Alliance Francaise in Antworpen is massively oversubscribed. It is known there by its Flemish name, Vlaams Belang. Meanwhile, if you're visiting the WW1 battlefields, don't forget to call in at Ieper and Bergen*.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
* better known as Ypres and Mons.

[raymond....@gmail.com]

I am sure he is very good, but I am not sure the Concertgebouw patrons will take to a diet of film scores, Korngold, Copland, Star Trek, et al. But then again maybe they will.

Ray Hall, Taree

[mswd...@gmail.com]

Hmm- Honeck has conducted the Concertgebouw. What I'd like to see is Honeck at the Concertgebouw. Then we can give the CSO to Jaap- he always was a favorite here.

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 12:46:01 UTC+10, mswd...gmail.com wrote:

Honeck is with Pittsburgh isn't he? I am not sure where the CSO comes into the equation unless Muti is retiring.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Andrew Clarke]

I have two of his recordings with the Sinfonia of London: Escales, which is various French orchestral pieces ranging from the obscure to the ever so familiar, including a stunning Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un faun, and the Respighi Roman Trilogy. He's also recorded Le Loup, a ballet by Dutilleux, and the obligatory collection of English music for strings. And the Korngold Symphony in F, Theme and Variations and Straussiana of course.

<https://sinfoniaoflondon.com/recordings/>

I don't see any film scores there. I think you must be confusing the current Sinfonia with its predecessor.

Should he go to the Concertgebouw, they will undoubtedly get some interesting new repertoire, plus a good deal of fresh light shining on the old one. If he's prepared to turn his hand to 'pops' concerts like the Prom performance cited, that's all well and good: the modern orchestra can't afford to be sniffy. And nobody sniffed at Arthur Fiedler or Willi Boskowski for doing the same kind of thing.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

As I hear it, the characteristically gushy BBC announcerette is referring to the occasion, rather than the orchestral sound. It is, after all, a 'pops' concert, designed to bring in the Andr'e Rieu crowd. Certainly, everybody seems to be enjoying themselves immensely. I notice also that the programme refers to John Wilson and His Orchestra, and not the Sinfonia of London. There may or may not be an overlap.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Herman]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:11:34 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:


>
> Should he go to the Concertgebouw, they will undoubtedly get some interesting new repertoire, plus a good deal of fresh light shining on the old one. If he's prepared to turn his hand to 'pops' concerts like the Prom performance cited, that's all well and good: the modern orchestra can't afford to be sniffy. And nobody sniffed at Arthur Fiedler or Willi Boskowski for doing the same kind of thing.
>

"He" is this John Wilson, who has never to my knowledge worked with the RCO or any other top league orchestra - and who, indeed, specializes in a repertoire that does not align in any way with the RCO?

The RCO has just given an open air concert on the Dam Square, featuring some pops-like pieces as is befitting open air free admission concert. However, the RCO is typically a highbrowish orchetra playing in a 1650 seat hall that is pretty much sold out whenever they play Bruckner or whatever they're playing. It would be incredibly bad marketing to adjust downwards.

However, don't let this stop your phantasies.

[Andrew Clarke]

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 6:06:23 pm UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:11:34 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Should he go to the Concertgebouw, they will undoubtedly get some interesting new repertoire, plus a good deal of fresh light shining on the old one. If he's prepared to turn his hand to 'pops' concerts like the Prom performance cited, that's all well and good: the modern orchestra can't afford to be sniffy. And nobody sniffed at Arthur Fiedler or Willi Boskowski for doing the same kind of thing.
> >
> "He" is this John Wilson, who has never to my knowledge worked with the RCO or any other top league orchestra - and who, indeed, specializes in a repertoire that does not align in any way with the RCO?

In the 1980s the name Sinfonia of London was resurrected for an ensemble which specialised in film music. Mr Wilson had nothing whatsoever to do with this orchestra. We cannot therefore say that he specialises in film music.

On a couple of occasions, Mr Wilson has been invited to conduct 'pops' concerts at the Royal Albert Hall. We cannot argue from this that he specialises in the 'pops' repertoire, any more than we can argue that Beecham's 'lollipops' made Sir Thomas a specialist in the 'pops' repertoire.

Mr Wilson revived the name 'Sinfonia of London' in 2018. This band has no connection with the 1980s orchestra of that name. They do not specialise in film music. They have recorded works by Korngold, as well as works by 19th and 20th century French composers, including Chabrier, Ravel and Debussy. They've also recorded Respighi. Are you deliriously trying to tell me that this repertoire is beneath the dignity of the RCO?

He is not going to appeal to the kind of audience that thinks that the RCO can only be conducted by someone who has been stomping around Germany, Austria and the USA for fifty years, preferably someone with a ressuring Central or Eastern European name, and preferably a Bruckner specialist.

>
> The RCO has just given an open air concert on the Dam Square, featuring some pops-like pieces as is befitting open air free admission concert. However, the RCO is typically a highbrowish orchetra playing in a 1650 seat hall that is pretty much sold out whenever they play Bruckner or whatever they're playing. It would be incredibly bad marketing to adjust downwards.

I am familiar with the RCO's usual repertoire. I can see however no reason to believe that a very talented young man with something to say would adjust it downwards.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Herman]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 12:28:37 PM UTC+2, patrici...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I am familiar with the RCO's usual repertoire. I can see however no reason to believe that a very talented young man with something to say would adjust it downwards.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Well, obviously you like him. But I'm not sure that will impact the RCO's choices much.

Generally it's safe to say a conductor who has not guest conducted the RCO and has not done a tour with them is not being considered. That tricky lil thing called chemistry...
It's not even clear whether they are actively seeking at the moment. Like I said before, the Vienna Phil seems to be doing fine without a resident chief conductor.

[Andrew Clarke]

Why not listen to one of his recordings? I'm sure the RCO won't look at him for now, certainly. I'm sure they might well have to look at someone like him in future.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[HT]

Op woensdag 22 september 2021 om 01:30:06 UTC+2 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:

Hmm. There is an Alliance française in Antwerp and several other cities. There is also a political party Vlaams Belang. And yes, Belgium greatly suffered during WWI.

You either don't have a point, or don't want to make it.

Henk

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 20:34:09 UTC+10, Herman wrote:

The VPO have never ever had a principal conductor. Since the end of WWII they choose a guest conductor for a year or two, and before the war they relied on subscription conductors. Karl Bohm must have been a guest conductor for a number of years. The orchestra is run by a committee of 12 members, who decide who will conduct them. So I believe.

Ray Hall, Taree

[John Fowler]

If there is war between France and the US, which side will the Flemmies root for?

[Andrew Clarke]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 9:21:44 PM UTC+10, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

> > The Alliance Francaise in Antworpen is massively oversubscribed. It is known there by its Flemish name, Vlaams Belang. Meanwhile, if you're visiting the WW1 battlefields, don't forget to call in at Ieper and Bergen*.
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> > * better known as Ypres and Mons.
> Hmm. There is an Alliance française in Antwerp and several other cities. There is also a political party Vlaams Belang. And yes, Belgium greatly suffered during WWI.
>
> You either don't have a point, or don't want to make it.

I have two points: The first is that there is a political party called Vlaams Belang which wants to break up the Belgian state in order for Flanders becoming a separate country. I think it unlikely that speaking French will be encouraged there if this should actually happen. The second is that the Flemings are very insistent on the use of Flemish, which at one time was causing problems re the language of instruction in predominantly Flemish-speaking suburbs of Brussel, an historically Francophone city: this also applies to their insistence on using the Flemish names of WW1 battlefields (e.g. Ieper) rather than the much better-known French ones (e.g. Ypres). Nothing to do with Belgian suffering during WW1, although I readily acknowledge that.

On the other side of the divide, we have Wallons preferring to sing their own 'Chant des Wallons' to 'La Brabancon', the official Belgian national anthem, and indeed to sing it in the Wallon dialect rather than standard Paris French. It's no wonder so many Belgians prefer to speak English. It's so much easier to call their national railways B-Rail rather than NMBS/SNCB.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[HT]

Op woensdag 22 september 2021 om 14:06:44 UTC+2 schreef John Fowler:

> If there is war between France and the US, which side will the Flemmies root for?

<g> The ties with France are closer than with the US, in many respects (certainly these days). Even the enthusiasm to join the Netherlands isn't any more what it once was. It's in my view no longer mainly a cultural problem. It reminds me of Catalonia: a rich province's desire to get rid of the poor.

Henk

[Andrew Clarke]

Or the revenge of the once poor provinces, now rich, over the once-rich provinces, now poor.

Flanders is now famous for very refined HIP performances of Bach, while Wallonia is famous for the hard-hitting social-realist films of the Dardenne brothers, and they certainly have plenty of raw material. I think that's significant. Wallonia used to be a great place for jazz musicians too, although most of them inevitably moved to Paris.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[HT]

Op woensdag 22 september 2021 om 15:01:41 UTC+2 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:

<g> Excellent!

1. A country of their own perhaps, but at least a federal state with no financial ties to the Wallons.
The Flamands are as tenacious about the use of their language as the Wallons. Brussels is a battlefield. The French will eventually win because most immigrants and expats speak French or English, or both. No one wants to learn a "small" language.

2. Indeed, the Wallons have/had their own language and very distinct culture. After the closing of the coal mines and steel factories, the area became impoverished. Being the Prince of Liège is no longer an honour and is no longer granted.

Most Belgians speak at least two languages more or less fluently. I don't know if they prefer to speak English. My relatives speak English at work, but French or German at home (German as a compromise between Dutch and Finnish).

Henk

[HT]

Op woensdag 22 september 2021 om 15:24:17 UTC+2 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:

Wallonia is also known for its love for classical music. Maybe a legacy of the good old days.

Henk

[Andrew Clarke]

"I wish I could schtimi like my sister Kate,
She's shaking like Gigli on a plate ... "

More seriously, I didn't know about classical music in Wallonia, but I can imagine Liege as the Wallon equivalent of Manchester or Birmingham - l'Orchestre Philharmonique Royal de Liege, choral societies, etc. among the industrial grime, although neither English city has the ancient city centre like Liege's. Certainly the streets and terraces we see in the Dardenne brothers' films could be anywhere in the industrial North of England, and one British soldier in 1945 remarked that the only difference between a household in the corons and his terraced house at home was the smell of chicory.

Just over the border in Tourcoing, Francois-Xavier Roth and Les Siecles are in residence at the Atelier Lyrique. Another rust-belt town.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 3:28:37 AM UTC-7, patrici...@gmail.com wrote:

> Mr Wilson revived the name 'Sinfonia of London' in 2018. This band has no connection with the 1980s orchestra of that name. . .

> > The RCO has just given an open air concert on the Dam Square, featuring some pops-like pieces as is befitting open air free admission concert. However, the RCO is typically a highbrowish orchetra playing in a 1650 seat hall that is pretty much sold out whenever they play Bruckner or whatever they're playing. It would be incredibly bad marketing to adjust downwards.

> I am familiar with the RCO's usual repertoire. I can see however no reason to believe that a very talented young man with something to say would adjust it downwards.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Interestingly enough, I read an account of one of those John Wilson Proms Concerts with "his" orchestra (and, darn it, I cannot remember where I read this now!), where the writer claimed that, for this particular concert, six of violin spots in that orchestra were filled with violinists from the Concertgebouw orchestra. Maybe that's a good way for some of the RCOA members to get to know him! ;-)

[Andrew Clarke]

Thanks, Chris. Like the British musicians, they probably needed the money. I once knew here in Canberra a brass teacher who had been a professional trumpeter in Britain, and he maintained that the immediate response musicians gave to a phone call from their agents was "When? Where? and How much?". One day he might be playing "Rhapsodie espagnol" with the LSO at the Royal Festival Hall, the next day it might be "Lady of Spain" with Frank Chacksfield and His Orchestra at a recording studio somewhere in the London suburbs. All grist to the mill.

I did read somewhere that musicians are prepared to travel considerable distances to play for John Wilson, so he may well have RCOA players in the Sinfonia as well.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Owen]

On 9/18/21 3:07 AM, Herman wrote:
> Looking at Dudamel's discography and repertoire I see a lot of big splashy pieces, like the Verdi Requiem and Mahler 8. Mahler 8 is not a fun piece to play for an orchestra.
> A lot of Dudamel's signature music is of an extravert loud sort, allowing for a lot of conductor jumps and sweat, that doesn't align with the RCO's dna. But hey, you never know....
>

Sounds like Dudamel would be perfect for the NY Phil. Following in
Lenny's footsteps.

-Owen

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 12:41:38 AM UTC+2, Chris from Lafayette wrote:
>
> Interestingly enough, I read an account of one of those John Wilson Proms Concerts with "his" orchestra (and, darn it, I cannot remember where I read this now!), where the writer claimed that, for this particular concert, six of violin spots in that orchestra were filled with violinists from the Concertgebouw orchestra. Maybe that's a good way for some of the RCOA members to get to know him! ;-)

this is such a spotty reference it's hard to take seriously.

Also I cannot help but notice all these posters who are so sure about the facts on the ground, just happen to live thousands of miles from what they're talking about.

[raymond....@gmail.com]

Maybe because common knowledge doesn't rely on being too close, or having to rely on those closer who seem unaware of common knowledge.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Herman]

It is "common knowledge" that six RCO violinists played at a Prom in the John Wilson Symphony, or whatever orchestra?
BTW there is a pool of good freelance orchestra musicians that temp (and audition) in various orchestras and perhaps this unidentified reporter in this unidentified paper or blog was talking about some of these people. But having played in a RCO program once or twice does not make one a RCO violinist. And, again, I'm rather suspicious of this story in any case, with its multi-layered hearsayishness.
Ironically, I looked up this John Wilson you're so agog about, and on his website I not only learned there is a thing called the John Wilson Symphony orchestra (who would want to lead the RCO after that?) but also that he has apparently conducted a concert with the RCO, because the RCO is listed in his 'worked with' list.
It would have been so much easier and persuasive to mention this than saying someone we don't know wrote somewhere we don't know that Wilson played with some violinists we don't know but have been spotted on the Van Baerlestraat streetcar stop near the Concertgebouw (and they were carrying violin cases!) .

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 23 September 2021 at 16:49:54 UTC+10, Herman wrote:

You are talking to the wrong poster. I have heard of John Wilson and have heard some good things about him. That is all.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Andrew Clarke]

Why are you getting so worked up about Netherlands musicians playing in a 'pops' orchestra - a very, very good 'pops' orchestra - in London? I'm sure it happens all the time.

"Joe the contrabassoonist has phoned in sick, it swallowed him again this morning. The concert's on Friday. What do we do?"
"There's a really good contrabassoonist in Maastricht. Let's see if he can do it."
"Fly him in!"

I went to a concert in Canberra a few years ago by a very famous English brass band. It's based in a former mill town in Yorkshire. Its players live all over Western Europe.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

Well, there seems to be some problem with a conductor being appointed at the Concertgebouw if he's been contaminated by conducting Rodgers and Hammerstein in the Royal Albert Hall. Maybe Mr Wilson should be the inspiration for a new overture in the style of LvB entitled 'The Desecration of the House'. I'd certainly agree that Rodgers and Hart would have been vastly more entertaining.

Given this unhappy situation, might I suggest Robin Ticciati, another promising young conductor? He has an Italian surname, he's working in Germany, he's recorded a Brahms cycle and there are no recordings of him conducting a 'pops' concert on You Tube. He ticks all the boxes, doesn't he?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 10:28:58 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>

> Well, there seems to be some problem with a conductor being appointed at the Concertgebouw if he's been contaminated by conducting Rodgers and Hammerstein in the Royal Albert Hall.

Perhaps you have secret sources inside the RCO selection process, or you may be getting a little ahead of yourself.

Also, you seem to be way more exercised about this than anyone else, even though you're not exactly within spitting distance of the Concertgebouw.

[Andrew Clarke]

Does this mean that only Amsterdamers can discuss who might be considered for the RCO?

I'm simply suggesting that an energetic young conductor with new ideas might be better than somebody in same old mould.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
Guust Flater for the New York Phil

[Herman]

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:21:04 PM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 6:35:53 PM UTC+10, Herman wrote:
> > On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 10:28:58 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > Well, there seems to be some problem with a conductor being appointed at the Concertgebouw if he's been contaminated by conducting Rodgers and Hammerstein in the Royal Albert Hall.
> > Perhaps you have secret sources inside the RCO selection process, or you may be getting a little ahead of yourself.
> >
> > Also, you seem to be way more exercised about this than anyone else, even though you're not exactly within spitting distance of the Concertgebouw.
> Does this mean that only Amsterdamers can discuss who might be considered for the RCO?
>

You seem to care more for this John Wilson than for the orchestra, perhaps because it's all very remote for you.
Since very few conductors have an orchestra bearing their name, I'd say this guy is A okay with his very own John Wilson Symphony, or Orchestra, I forget which it is.

[Andrew Clarke]

This particular conductor is famous for his recordings with the Sinfonia of London, and as his name is neither John Sinfonia nor John London your criticism isn't applicable in this case. I don't think was applicable to the Boyd Neel Orchestra either.

I suspect that the entity called the John Wilson Orchestra has no permanent existence, and is brought together as required, rather like the light music recording orchestras of yesteryear.

But let us move onto Robin Ticciati. Why couldn't he conduct at the Concertgebouw? Would it be easier if he changed his first name to Roberto and grew a moustache?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 1:35:53 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 10:28:58 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
>
> > Well, there seems to be some problem with a conductor being appointed at the Concertgebouw if he's been contaminated by conducting Rodgers and Hammerstein in the Royal Albert Hall.

> . . .
>
> Also, you seem to be way more exercised about this than anyone else. . .

Oh! The irony!

Herman - could it be possible that you feel "left out" because you hadn't heard of John Wilson before? ;-)

Returning to Wilson's Copland series on Chandos, which I mentioned in passing, its four volumes (so far) were done with the BBC PO, and the rap on these recordings is that they're sometimes a little pushed in the tempo department. I've got all four of them myself (because. . . you know. . . MCh), and I can understand how Wilson's tempos in some sections of these works could be perceived as too driven by certain listeners

Our friend Dave over at Classics Today was also unhappy with Wilson's too-rapid tempos on his Respighi and Escales albums. Frankly, I loved both of these albums, and the Escales performances seemed to me full of the exciting brilliance this music is capable of - which IMHO we haven't heard since the days of Munch and Paray. (I'm afraid no Dutoit for me in this repertoire - LOL!)

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 10:28:08 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> Honeck is with Pittsburgh isn't he? I am not sure where the CSO comes into the equation unless Muti is retiring.

Honeck's contract in Pittsburgh ends in 22. Muti's CSO only goes one further year. Muti is very popular here, so if he wanted to extend, I bet the orchestra would offer it.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 3:06:23 AM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> However, don't let this stop your phantasies.

The notion of Wilson getting the RCO is clearly absurd. That said, what he does has nothing to do with Andre Rieu.

[mswd...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 10:44:24 PM UTC-5, Herman wrote:
> Also I cannot help but notice all these posters who are so sure about the facts on the ground, just happen to live thousands of miles from what they're talking about.

K. Petrenko proves that being local may not be any advantage.

[Andrew Clarke]

I agree it's absurd. It's as if we were to allow the man who wrote 'West Side Story' and (bits of) 'On the Town' to conduct the New York Philharmonic. Unthinkable.

What about Robin Ticciati?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 4:26:21 AM UTC+10, Chris from Lafayette wrote:

> Returning to Wilson's Copland series on Chandos, which I mentioned in passing, its four volumes (so far) were done with the BBC PO, and the rap on these recordings is that they're sometimes a little pushed in the tempo department. I've got all four of them myself (because. . . you know. . . MCh), and I can understand how Wilson's tempos in some sections of these works could be perceived as too driven by certain listeners

If Dave is attempting to dance "Rodeo" himself, he probably needs all the slow tempi he can get! ;-)

The BBC Phil are, as you know, based in Manchester, where they compete with the Halle Orchestra, named after their original conductor, Sir Charles "Bill" Halle, who started the rock 'n' roll revolution in 1856. I wonder if the Concergebouw would consider Sir Mark Elder? I'm sure the cheese is nicer in Amsterdam.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
vote 1 Guus Flater for King of the Belgians

[Bob Harper]

On 9/22/21 3:28 AM, Andrew Clarke wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 September 2021 at 6:06:23 pm UTC+10, Herman wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 6:11:34 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Should he go to the Concertgebouw, they will undoubtedly get some interesting new repertoire, plus a good deal of fresh light shining on the old one. If he's prepared to turn his hand to 'pops' concerts like the Prom performance cited, that's all well and good: the modern orchestra can't afford to be sniffy. And nobody sniffed at Arthur Fiedler or Willi Boskowski for doing the same kind of thing.
>>>
>> "He" is this John Wilson, who has never to my knowledge worked with the RCO or any other top league orchestra - and who, indeed, specializes in a repertoire that does not align in any way with the RCO?
>
> In the 1980s the name Sinfonia of London was resurrected for an ensemble which specialised in film music. Mr Wilson had nothing whatsoever to do with this orchestra. We cannot therefore say that he specialises in film music.
>
> On a couple of occasions, Mr Wilson has been invited to conduct 'pops' concerts at the Royal Albert Hall. We cannot argue from this that he specialises in the 'pops' repertoire, any more than we can argue that Beecham's 'lollipops' made Sir Thomas a specialist in the 'pops' repertoire.
>
> Mr Wilson revived the name 'Sinfonia of London' in 2018. This band has no connection with the 1980s orchestra of that name. They do not specialise in film music. They have recorded works by Korngold, as well as works by 19th and 20th century French composers, including Chabrier, Ravel and Debussy. They've also recorded Respighi. Are you deliriously trying to tell me that this repertoire is beneath the dignity of the RCO?
>
> He is not going to appeal to the kind of audience that thinks that the RCO can only be conducted by someone who has been stomping around Germany, Austria and the USA for fifty years, preferably someone with a ressuring Central or Eastern European name, and preferably a Bruckner specialist.

>
>>
>> The RCO has just given an open air concert on the Dam Square, featuring some pops-like pieces as is befitting open air free admission concert. However, the RCO is typically a highbrowish orchetra playing in a 1650 seat hall that is pretty much sold out whenever they play Bruckner or whatever they're playing. It would be incredibly bad marketing to adjust downwards.
>
> I am familiar with the RCO's usual repertoire. I can see however no reason to believe that a very talented young man with something to say would adjust it downwards.
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra
>
>

I wonder if there hasn't been some confusion here 9may be mine, as Ive'
been dealing with COVID), but are we sure we're talking about John
WILSON (of whom I know nothing) and not John NELSON (the Berlioz
specialist)?

Bob Harper

[Frank Berger]

Tell us about your Covid. Not too sick, I hope? Vaccinated, I assume? How long ago? You are data. My wife and I got our 3rd Moderna shot recently. Side effect was more significant than the 1st two shots. Bad enough that I had to leave service the first night of Rosh Hashana and missed the first day. Poor planning on my part.

[Herman]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 6:59:37 PM UTC+2, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> >
> I wonder if there hasn't been some confusion here (may be mine, as Ive'
> been dealing with COVID),

Yeah, that's shocking. Hopefully you are allright now.

[Andrew Clarke]

On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 2:59:37 AM UTC+10, Bob Harper wrote:

> I wonder if there hasn't been some confusion here 9may be mine, as Ive'
> been dealing with COVID), but are we sure we're talking about John
> WILSON (of whom I know nothing) and not John NELSON (the Berlioz
> specialist)?

We're talking about John Wilson, Bob, and I do hope you're OK. I'm currently living in extended lockdown here in the Australian Capital Territory and happily replying to comments in the British press from people who think that Australia has become a bad cross between North Korea and Nazi Germany. Some of the stuff we're getting from the 99% brigades from both within and outside the country beggars belief.

Another way of looking at John Wilson is that he's another example of a musician who's created his own orchestra to demonstrate his own musical thinking. This has been going on since the 1980s I suppose - Sir Roger Norrington and Sir John Eliot Gardiner are obvious examples. Then there's Jos Immerseel, Francois-Xavier Roth, and of course a lot of early music and baroque specialists like Vincent Dumestre and Le Poeme Harmonique or Il Giardino Armonico with Luca Pianca and Giovanni Antonini, and the amazing Herv'e Niquet with Le Concert Spirituel. These are exciting times.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Andrew Clarke]

On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 8:21:14 AM UTC+10, Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Another way of looking at John Wilson is that he's another example of a musician who's created his own orchestra to demonstrate his own musical thinking. This has been going on since the 1980s I suppose - Sir Roger Norrington and Sir John Eliot Gardiner are obvious examples. Then there's Jos Immerseel, Francois-Xavier Roth, and of course a lot of early music and baroque specialists like Vincent Dumestre and Le Poeme Harmonique or Il Giardino Armonico with Luca Pianca and Giovanni Antonini, and the amazing Herv'e Niquet with Le Concert Spirituel. These are exciting times.

I unpardonably omitted the Chairman of the Board, William Christie, and a man who started two orchestras, Sir Thomas Beecham.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[MELMOTH]

Andrew Clarke a pensé très fort :

> and a man who started two orchestras

*Three* orchestras...

[Bob Harper]

Thanks to all for all the good wishes.
Vaccinated? Yes. Pfizer 1/28 and 2/17
Symptoms arrived last Saturday 9/18. Extreme weakness (couldn't get out
of a chair w/o my wife's assistance; very tentative balance
(unsurprising); most embarrassingly, loss of bladder control (sorry, but
you asked and I'm just reporting). No headache, no loss of taste or
smell, though some tastes are a bit altered from normal right now.
Cough, but not chest rattling. Got worse (or at least seemed to; maybe I
was just getting impatient). Got tested on Tuesday, results Wed
confirmed. Scheduled for monoclonal antibody treatment today (completed;
so far so good. In the meantime, started taking prednisone (prescribed)
on Thursday to excellent effect--the stuff's miraculous over the short
haul. Vitals are almost back to normal--O2 sat a bit low but getting better.
I'm convinced that had I not been vaccinated, I would be in the hospital
by now, but who knows? I'll take the booster, but the when is a question
for my physician. In the meantime, I hope there's as big a push for the
rapid development or recognition of good therapeutics as there was for
the vaccine, but I am not sanguine about that.

Thanks again.

Bob Harper

[Bob Harper]

Andrew, my daughter is in Sydney, so we've had full reports. I fear your
leaders had the notion that being an island was better protection than
it turned out to be, and also that your public health establishment went
a bit nuts. And yes, there's a good bit of OTT nonsense out there (my
sister-in-law is part of it, though she's mellowing a bit). The
politicization of this whole thing has been one of the great
tragedies--and hindsight will probably have it in the #1 spot--of the
first quarter of this century.

Bob Harper

[Herman]

On Saturday, September 25, 2021 at 1:49:04 AM UTC+2, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> I'm convinced that had I not been vaccinated, I would be in the hospital
> by now, but who knows? I'll take the booster, but the when is a question
> for my physician.
>

> Bob Harper

Well, please get 100% better soon!
Perhaps you'll don't need the booster now, since you're making antibodies now by yourself.
Close shave...

[mswd...@gmail.com]

Best wishes on a speedy recovery, Bob!

MW

[Chris from Lafayette]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 6:49:52 PM UTC-7, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> Best wishes on a speedy recovery, Bob!
>
> MW

Yes - we all wish for a speedy 100% recovery!

[Andrew Clarke]

Jos: Do you know, Jaap, that my wife is so short-sighted that she mistook a piece of Limburger for a bar of bath soap?
Jaap: That's terrible, Jos. Has she recovered?
Jos: Yes she has, but the postman* hasn't called for a fortnight now.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra
* British readers might substitute 'the milkman' at this point. In America I think it's the grocery boy.

[HT]

Op zaterdag 25 september 2021 om 01:49:04 UTC+2 schreef Bob Harper:

Let's hope that the booster will protect us for at least 99%.

Best wishes,
Henk

[Bob Harper]

My hope as well
Thanks again to you all. Yes, I'll get the booster when and if it's
recommended for those like me who've had the original vaccine and a dose
of what was almost certainly the Delta variety. As I understand it
currently, that may involve some delay if one's had the monoclonal
antibody infusion. I'll follow my doctor's recommendation. At this
point, I only wish I'd started taking the prednisone earlier. There was
a communication snafu between doctor's office and pharmacy requiring an
actual phone call (!) to straighten out :). Nobody's perfect. Do have to
report some alteration in taste; not loss, but changes that are not
pleasant. Hoping they go away sooner rather than later. Oh well, I could
stand to some some weight.

Bob Harper

[raymond....@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 26 September 2021 at 00:00:40 UTC+10, Bob Harper wrote:

> Thanks again to you all. Yes, I'll get the booster when and if it's
> recommended for those like me who've had the original vaccine and a dose
> of what was almost certainly the Delta variety. As I understand it
> currently, that may involve some delay if one's had the monoclonal
> antibody infusion. I'll follow my doctor's recommendation. At this
> point, I only wish I'd started taking the prednisone earlier. There was
> a communication snafu between doctor's office and pharmacy requiring an
> actual phone call (!) to straighten out :). Nobody's perfect. Do have to
> report some alteration in taste; not loss, but changes that are not
> pleasant. Hoping they go away sooner rather than later. Oh well, I could
> stand to some some weight.
>
> Bob Harper

Stay well Bob. I've had the first AstraZeneca dose, and 7 weeks to go before the second. I am seeing the GP as to whether to bring the second dose forward a few weeks.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Frank Berger]

Glad to hear you are improved. I had not heard about prednisone being used to treat Covid. I got Hydroxychloroquine, probably to no purpose. No other treatment. It's interesting how this disease manifests itself so differently from one victim to another. My two main symptoms were cough (pneumonia in both lungs) and extreme exhaustion. Lost sense of taste briefly. No fever or body aches or headache. I thought I had no lingering effects (now 1.5 years since Covid), but my wife mentioned that she read that occasional dizziness which she and I both have could be a lingering effect. I figured it was from my blood pressure medicine, but who knows. Our second Moderna shot is now over 6 months old and without a more recent shot we would spend at least the first week of our upcoming trip to Israel in quarantine. Of course our departure is in 10 days and we have no entry visa yet. Holding our breathe.

[Andrew Clarke]

My wife and I had our AZ shots in Canberra in May and July, I think, courtesy of the ACT government, and neither of us have had any nasty side affects. We got in early in my case because of my age, in my wife's case because of her compromised immune system.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Bob Harper]

Thanks, Ray. I hope you stay well for a long time.

Bob Hrper

[Bob Harper]

The prednisone was not so much a treatment as a prophylactic to keep the
worst at bay, which it did. A friend who had it got prednisone from his
doctor (who is also a friend of mine), and it helped him 'over the
hump', which it also did for me. But you're right; this stuff presents
in myriad ways.

Hope you get to take an unquarantined trip to Israel.I've seen arguments
that natural immunity is much stronger than vaccine immunity; of course
there are counterarguments, which will not doubt go on for years.

Bob Harper

[Frank Berger]

At the present time, as far as tourists are concerned, Israel places no value on natural immunity. You must be vaccinated at least twice with the most recent being no more than 6 months previous. * At the airport in Tel Aviv, we will be given both PCR and serological tests. This is assuming some bureaucrat at the Israeli consulate in Atlanta actually gets around to approving the trip in the next week or so.

* This is to determine the length of the quarantine, not whether to be admitted in the first place. With no vaccination and no antibodies, I think you spend 2 weeks in quarantine, not exactly conducive to a vacation (or grandson's wedding).

[Herman]

On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 12:34:09 PM UTC+2, Herman wrote:
>
>
> Generally it's safe to say a conductor who has not guest conducted the RCO and has not done a tour with them is not being considered. That tricky lil thing called chemistry...
> It's not even clear whether they are actively seeking at the moment. Like I said before, the Vienna Phil seems to be doing fine without a resident chief conductor.

I cannot help but notice (to return to the OP's subject) that the RCO is playing tonight in Bucharest, Rumania, and the conductor is, again, Daniel Harding.

[John Fowler]

Is Isidore Godfrey available?

[Andrew Clarke]

Or Herbert Blomstedt? Still a marvellous conductor judging by his recent concert with the BPO, but he's not exactly going to put the bop in the bop-si-bop-si-bop is he?

Will Harding's be 'The Voice that Breathed o'er Edam'?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

[Herman]

On Monday, September 27, 2021 at 9:33:11 AM UTC+2, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Or Herbert Blomstedt? Still a marvellous conductor judging by his recent concert with the BPO, but he's not exactly going to put the bop in the bop-si-bop-si-bop is he?
>

That was the Vienna Phil.

[Andrew Clarke]

It was the Berlin Phil, Herman, on 12 June 2021, with Blomstedt conducting Sibelius 4 and Brahms 3. Streamed from the BPO's Digital Concert Hall. The VPO lacks the ram in the ram-a-dam-a-ding-dong.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra