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Fauré- Complete Nocturnes and Barcarolles

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JohnGavin

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Jul 16, 2020, 7:48:06 PM7/16/20
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Marc-Andre Hamelin announced this as his next recording project. This will be very interesting.

gggg...@gmail.com

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Jul 16, 2020, 9:23:09 PM7/16/20
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On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 4:48:06 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> Marc-Andre Hamelin announced this as his next recording project. This will be very interesting.

Lot of competition out there:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/faure$20nocturnes$20barcarolles%7Csort:relevance
Message has been deleted

Owen

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Jul 17, 2020, 9:25:01 AM7/17/20
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On 7/17/20 1:28 AM, dk wrote:
> Most of them incompetent in this music.
> Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin and
> Evelyne Crochet, throw away all others.
> Especially Heidsieck.
>
> dk
>

DK's Guide to De-Cluttering Your CD Collection.

-Yet Another CD Hoarder

MELMOTH13

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Jul 17, 2020, 12:40:24 PM7/17/20
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Le 17/07/2020 à 15:24, Owen a écrit :
> DK's Guide to De-Cluttering Your CD Collection.

This guy has absolutely NO sense of the RIDICULOUSNESS...

Lawrence Kart

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Jul 17, 2020, 3:57:12 PM7/17/20
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On Friday, July 17, 2020 at 12:28:06 AM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 6:23:09 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Most of them incompetent in this music.
> Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin and
> Evelyne Crochet, throw away all others.
> Especially Heidsieck.

>
> dk

Just one CD's worth, but Esteban Sanchez?

Frank Berger

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Jul 17, 2020, 5:07:04 PM7/17/20
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Definitely. There was a Faure discussion in RMCR a couple
of years ago.

Oscar

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Jul 17, 2020, 5:43:22 PM7/17/20
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On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 10:28:06 PM, dk wrote:
>
> Most of them incompetent in this music.
> Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin and
> Evelyne Crochet, throw away all others.
> Especially Heidsieck.

Jean-Philippe Collard?
Message has been deleted

Me

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Jul 18, 2020, 10:39:20 AM7/18/20
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Collard FTW IMO.

George

JohnGavin

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Jul 18, 2020, 11:18:40 AM7/18/20
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how quoted text -
Most of them incompetent in this music.
Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin

I tried her recording on the Testament label. I didn’t care for it. It was overly precious to me ears — too refined. The image that came to mind while listening to it was one a a finely fussed over French Poodle being walked by a delicate French lady with a parasol. Faure is better than that. Chacun a son gout.

Me

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Jul 18, 2020, 11:42:00 AM7/18/20
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Yeah, I agree. Valentin's Faure is highly overrated.

George

ctimb...@gmail.com

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Jul 18, 2020, 8:22:05 PM7/18/20
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Yes, T-V is overrated. Better in the Barcarolles than the Nocturnes. Heidsieck better in the Nocturnes than the Barcarolles.

Ricardo Jimenez

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Jul 18, 2020, 9:18:33 PM7/18/20
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The version I have is by British pianist Paul Crossley. It is that
good that I am surprised nobody has mentioned it.
Message has been deleted

JohnGavin

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Jul 19, 2020, 9:26:59 AM7/19/20
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it.
6:50 AMdk
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 8:18:40 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> how quoted text -
> Most of them incompetent in this music.
> Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin
>
> I tried her recording on the Testament label.
> I didn’t care for it. It was overly precious
> to me ears — too refined. The image that came
> to mind while listening to it was one a a finely
> fussed over French Poodle being walked by a delicate
> French lady with a parasol.

Suits the music to a T.

It does if you believe Faure’s piano music is prissy.

Prissy (def.) - prom and proper

Raymond Hall

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Jul 19, 2020, 10:24:03 AM7/19/20
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> I tried her recording on the Testament label.  
> I didn’t care for it.  It was overly precious
> to me ears — too refined.  The image that came
> to mind while listening to it was one a a finely
> fussed over French Poodle being walked by a delicate
> French lady with a parasol.

Faure provokes many images, and parasols and poodles are closer than gilded spittoons.

Ry Hall, Taree

JohnGavin

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Jul 19, 2020, 1:14:47 PM7/19/20
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Raymond Hall
Or, come to think of it, sumo wrestlers.

Steve Emerson

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Jul 19, 2020, 1:35:36 PM7/19/20
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On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-7, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
I agree -- all of Crossley's Faure is worthy. He's especially valuable in the fascinating and forbidding later Nocturnes. (Yvonne Lefebure, in the few she did, may be even stronger.) Also agree with ctimb above that Heidsieck's Barcarolles are not up to his excellent Nocturnes. Collard is, I think, at his least convincing in the Nocturnes. Many other worthy Faure performances in his set, among them the Barcarolles. T-V I find disappointing but so far haven't culled. I prefer the super-romantic Emma Boynet. Like the canonical Albert Ferber, Boynet recorded maybe 40% of the piano works. No official CD releases.

SE.



MickeyBoy

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Jul 19, 2020, 3:00:12 PM7/19/20
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>
> Yes, T-V is overrated. Better in the Barcarolles than the Nocturnes. Heidsieck better in the Nocturnes than the Barcarolles.

There is something in Crossley's Faure that I find rather irritating. Perhaps my loss. I want to ask Prof Timbrell his opinion of Jean Hubeau's integrale and Lonquich's Impromptus. It seems that the only Barcarolles I have is Hubeau's.

And for other commentators: I think it is a mistake to think of Faure as in any way effeminate.

Thanks to all - this is a good thread.

Steve Emerson

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Jul 19, 2020, 3:15:40 PM7/19/20
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I am not the professor, but am very partial to the Hubeau set. As you know, it is exceedingly dry, much dryer than Heidsieck's playing, but that's not altogether bad in Faure. Better that than the opposite. He's intelligent.

Marguerite Long btw (who for some is synonymous with dry/sec) is indispensable.

SE.

AB

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Jul 19, 2020, 3:40:05 PM7/19/20
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agree......

AB
Message has been deleted
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Mark Obert-Thorn

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Jul 20, 2020, 9:13:36 AM7/20/20
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On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
> I prefer the super-romantic Emma Boynet. Like the canonical Albert Ferber, Boynet recorded maybe 40% of the piano works. No official CD releases.

It's coming from APR. I just finished the transfers.

Mark O-T

Lawrence Kart

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Jul 20, 2020, 12:36:05 PM7/20/20
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On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 5:50:02 AM UTC-5, dk wrote:
> On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 8:18:40 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > how quoted text -
> > Most of them incompetent in this music.
> > Keep Germaine Thyssens Valentin
> >
> > I tried her recording on the Testament label.
> > I didn’t care for it. It was overly precious
> > to me ears — too refined. The image that came
> > to mind while listening to it was one a a finely
> > fussed over French Poodle being walked by a delicate
> > French lady with a parasol.
>
> Suits the music to a T.






>
> > Fauré is better than that.
>
> How would one know? Or find out?
>
> > Chacun a son gout.
>
> Ou son dégoût.
>
> dk

From a 2008 post by DK on Thyssens Valentin's Faure: "Very small scale and prissy. It stinks."

What happened between then and now?

BTW, I agree with DK's earlier assessment of TV's Faure, minus the "it stinks."

gggg...@gmail.com

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Jul 20, 2020, 1:24:31 PM7/20/20
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On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 6:23:09 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
According to this:

- I'd say Crochet's Faure playing stands up well against any of the highly regarded Faure pianists of the past & present.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?topic=28559.40

JohnGavin

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Jul 20, 2020, 1:38:02 PM7/20/20
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According to this:

- I'd say Crochet's Faure playing stands up well against any of the highly regarded Faure pianists of the past & present.


I remember her recordings on Vox boxes very fondly. Have they ever appeared on CD? There is a very gentil WTC by her On CD. I will revisit it.

JohnGavin

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Jul 20, 2020, 1:49:08 PM7/20/20
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dk
- show quoted text -
Thyssens-Valentin studied with Faure
and the latter apparently stated she
and understood and performed his music
better than anyone else. Who am I to
disagree?


Well, if that is true, the “better than anyone else” would mean anyone else before 1924 - the year he died.
All the preferred versions mentioned here are recorded after 1950 - the bulk being much later. It’s not a question of agreeing or disagreeing, but Of widening one’s views.

Whatever interpretation gives one the deepest pleasure and fulfillment is the best IMO.

cooper...@gmail.com

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Jul 20, 2020, 2:08:55 PM7/20/20
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For Crochet on CD, try http://evelynecrochet.com/purchase.html. Some patience and persistence may be required, but eventually they'll come through. Note, however, that her Fauré was transferred from LPs, which is a mixed blessing. I'm excited by MO-T's report that his transfers of Boynet will be available soon. I have only one beat-up copy of her recording of six Barcarolles and a few additional works. I don't know that I would characterize her as "super-romantic." There is a certain amount of freedom, to be sure, but no loss of lucidity and poise. However you describe the performances, they sound terrific to me.

I've never warmed to Hubeau's solo Fauré, but do recommend the Apex reissue of his recordings of the Piano Quartets and Quintets with the Via Nova Quartet and other artists including the great Navarra.

AC

Steve Emerson

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Jul 20, 2020, 10:38:59 PM7/20/20
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As Alan says, this is really good news, MO-T. Thanks for letting us know! I've just been listening to her Nocturne #4 on YouTube, where it's mis-labeled as #3. "Super-romantic" isn't quite accurate for this, as my friend suggests. On the other hand, it's the antithesis of dry, and in this case that's a very good thing.

https://youtu.be/51l_XfuWzPg

SE.

Oscar

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Jul 20, 2020, 10:46:15 PM7/20/20
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On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 7:38:59 PM UTC-7, Steve Emerson wrote:
>
> > > I prefer the super-romantic Emma Boynet. Like the canonical Albert Ferber, Boynet recorded maybe
> > > 40% of the piano works. No official CD releases.
> >
> > It's coming from APR. I just finished the transfers.
>
> As Alan says, this is really good news, MO-T. Thanks for letting us know! I've just been listening to her
> Nocturne #4 on YouTube, where it's mis-labeled as #3. "Super-romantic" isn't quite accurate for this, as
> my friend suggests. On the other hand, it's the antithesis of dry, and in this case that's a very good thing.

Never heard of this pianist. The well-spring of classical music is seemingly bottomless and full of riches. Looking forward to this set. Still listening to the Casadesus set on APR from 2019, The Complete French Columbia Recordings, 1928-1939. Arrived in January and it is seldom far from the CD player.

I still don't understand DK's allergy to Collard in these works.

Lawrence Kart

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Jul 20, 2020, 11:01:17 PM7/20/20
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On that Nocturne No. 4 on You Tube, Boynet sounds like her fingers are sticking to the keys, as though she's playing on a very warm day a piano made of caramel.

gggg...@gmail.com

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Jul 20, 2020, 11:15:19 PM7/20/20
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On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 6:23:09 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 4:48:06 PM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> > Marc-Andre Hamelin announced this as his next recording project. This will be very interesting.
>
> Lot of competition out there:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/faure$20nocturnes$20barcarolles%7Csort:relevance

2014 BBC radio program on the Nocturnes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01w5741

Steve Emerson

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Jul 20, 2020, 11:38:35 PM7/20/20
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Not sure I know what that means, but I enjoyed reading it. Am I to conclude that you like her less than T-V?

SE.

Lawrence Kart

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Jul 21, 2020, 12:13:42 AM7/21/20
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It means that I hear a lack of articulation, as though when Boyant's fingers touch the keys they unduly linger there -- stuck, as it were, to a sticky surface.

Between her and V-T? They're so different it would be hard for me to decide. Perhaps M O-T's remastering will alter some of Boyant's "stickiness." In any case, I'll take Albert Ferber.

Frank Berger

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Jul 21, 2020, 9:26:54 AM7/21/20
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Speaking of Ferber, has anyone noticed the recent Eloquence
collection? No Faure.

https://tinyurl.com/y6zsmnfw

Steve Emerson

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Jul 21, 2020, 10:52:43 AM7/21/20
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No, but very interested. (Though found his Debussy dull.) The Faure was on Saga. Two LPs, two CDs. Balance off in both versions of one of them.

SE.


JohnGavin

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Jul 21, 2020, 11:25:56 AM7/21/20
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No, but very interested. (Though found his Debussy dull.) The Faure was on Saga. Two LPs, two CDs. Balance off in both versions of one of them.

SE.

I agree Steve, Ferber’s Faure is great, his Debussy disappointing, although part of the let down is in the mediocre engineering of the recordings.

Hearing the Eloquence collection, again, I found nothing special there, but Ferber fans should check it out.

Frank Berger

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Jul 21, 2020, 11:57:45 AM7/21/20
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I have the Saga vol. 2. Never seen vol. 1, though I have it
on LP.

Raymond Hall

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Jul 21, 2020, 4:47:00 PM7/21/20
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I was just about to press the trigger on Ferber's Debussy, and don't buy collections, so it looks like I'll wait for his Faure, if it ever eventuates. I had the LPs, many 100s of moons ago.


Ray Hall, Taree

Frank Berger

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Jul 21, 2020, 5:47:20 PM7/21/20
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On 7/21/2020 4:46 PM, Raymond Hall wrote:
> I was just about to press the trigger on Ferber's Debussy, and don't buy collections, so it looks like I'll wait for his Faure, if it ever eventuates. I had the LPs, many 100s of moons ago.
>
>
> Ray Hall, Taree
>


As long as Ferber's Fauré is unavailable it will be the best.

Has anyone actually seen the Saga vol. 1?




Steve Emerson

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Jul 22, 2020, 10:58:50 AM7/22/20
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I have it on CDR, without scans. Like you, I succeeded in buying it on LP before a friend located either the CD or someone who had it.

SE.

Frank Berger

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Jul 22, 2020, 11:11:26 AM7/22/20
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I have about 20 LPs of stuff never released on CD, that I
have intended to transfer myself. I never seem to get
around to it. I have the equipment and software but not the
motivation, I guess. Come to think of it, I haven't checked
in a long time to see of any of that has since become
available on CD or CD-R. Going to do that right now!

Steve Emerson

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Jul 22, 2020, 11:21:23 AM7/22/20
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My enthusiasm for transferring LPs has waned, and further stalled by needing to update applications for OS compatibility. Note though that the Ferber Faure, both volumes, have in fact appeared on CD. Catalog number for what the CDs call "Volume One" is EC 3398-2, release apparently 1993.

SE.


Frank Berger

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Jul 22, 2020, 2:03:10 PM7/22/20
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Oh, I know that it exists on paper. I've never seen an
actual copy offered for sale. It's interesting that volume 1
has a catalog number higher than volume 2. I realize that
may mean nothing.

JohnGavin

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Aug 4, 2020, 5:59:48 PM8/4/20
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I’m going to give a thumbs up for a recording that is rarely mentioned.

The complete Faure by Katherine Stott on Hyperion.

Not for those who like dry, fastidious, pearly, delicate playing - rather a beautiful acoustic, fuller toned and widely nuanced.

gggg...@gmail.com

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Aug 4, 2020, 6:15:50 PM8/4/20
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gggg...@gmail.com

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Aug 4, 2020, 6:17:48 PM8/4/20
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MCGM

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Aug 5, 2020, 5:13:53 AM8/5/20
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What John said! And kind of indispensable … – at least over here ;-)

MM

gggg gggg

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May 8, 2021, 5:53:07 PM5/8/21
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On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 12:00:12 PM UTC-7, MickeyBoy wrote:
> >
> > Yes, T-V is overrated. Better in the Barcarolles than the Nocturnes. Heidsieck better in the Nocturnes than the Barcarolles...

(Recent Y. upload):

Fauré - Les 13 Nocturnes (Complete), Thème et variations Op.73 (Century's recording: Éric Heidsieck)

Yoshiyuki Mukudai

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May 8, 2021, 6:02:38 PM5/8/21
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Fauré 4 Barcarolles Lucas Debargue on medici.tv in 2020. Fantastic.
https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/lucas-debargue-recital/


YM

MELMOTH

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May 8, 2021, 6:53:37 PM5/8/21
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Yoshiyuki Mukudai a formulé ce dimanche :
> Fauré 4 Barcarolles Lucas Debargue on medici.tv in 2020. Fantastic.
> https://www.medici.tv/en/concerts/lucas-debargue-recital/

*VIVE LA FRANCE* !!

Charles Timbrell

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May 8, 2021, 10:10:37 PM5/8/21
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Charles Timbrell

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May 8, 2021, 10:16:24 PM5/8/21
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HT

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May 9, 2021, 4:54:19 AM5/9/21
to
Op zondag 9 mei 2021 om 04:10:37 UTC+2 schreef Charles Timbrell:
Crochet's recording of the WTC is rarely mentioned and therefore easily forgotten. But every time I hear it, I am completely captivated by it.

I look forward to a release of her Faure on CD.

Henk

HT

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May 9, 2021, 6:21:56 AM5/9/21
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Op zondag 9 mei 2021 om 10:54:19 UTC+2 schreef HT:
Crochet's Faure is available on YTMusic in good sound. Cannot understand why it wasn't reissued on CD.

Henk

Frank Berger

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May 9, 2021, 9:00:17 AM5/9/21
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Crochet's Fauré appears to available on CD at her own web site. Possibly CD-R LP transfers?

http://evelynecrochet.com/

HT

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May 9, 2021, 9:29:15 AM5/9/21
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Op zondag 9 mei 2021 om 15:00:17 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
Dear Frank, many thanks. I ordered the volumes.

Henk

Frank Berger

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May 9, 2021, 11:25:26 AM5/9/21
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I usually hate to admit to getting old, but I just discovered that I had found and posted about the Crochet CDs on her web site a couple of years ago. I have no memory of that. Yikes.

Frank Berger

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May 9, 2021, 11:39:07 AM5/9/21
to
NYT reviewer on Crochet's Fauré. Very strange opening paragraph (about the music, not the performer):

https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/13/disks-faure.html

I recall someone calling her playing of Fauré as "fragile." Seems consistent with the review.

Herman

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May 9, 2021, 11:51:04 AM5/9/21
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On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 5:39:07 PM UTC+2, Frank Berger wrote:


> NYT reviewer on Crochet's Fauré. Very strange opening paragraph (about the music, not the performer):
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/13/disks-faure.html
>
> I recall someone calling her playing of Fauré as "fragile." Seems consistent with the review.

This NYT review is from a million years ago, or rather, eighty years, and it shows.

Frank Berger

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May 9, 2021, 12:25:11 PM5/9/21
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You must be using new math. Old math says it was 57 years ago. As to the rest, you've communicated nothing.

Herman

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May 9, 2021, 1:35:37 PM5/9/21
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Yeah, sorry, I guess I switched '64 into '46.

Ricardo Jimenez

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May 9, 2021, 2:06:29 PM5/9/21
to
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:25:19 -0400, Frank Berger
<frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> Crochet's Fauré appears to available on CD at her own web site. Possibly CD-R LP transfers?
>>>
>>> http://evelynecrochet.com
>>
>> Dear Frank, many thanks. I ordered the volumes.
>>
>> Henk
>>
>
>I usually hate to admit to getting old, but I just discovered that I had found and posted about the Crochet CDs on her web site a couple of years ago. I have no memory of that. Yikes.

The disc on Spotify has her playing 13 Barcarolas and 13 Noturnos and
says "© 2015 bajo licencia THAI Records."

Frank Berger

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May 9, 2021, 2:48:12 PM5/9/21
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Fauré is huge in Thailand. Huge.

Some years ago the Canadian piano maven recommended Jacqueline Eymar for Fauré.

HT

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May 9, 2021, 5:40:32 PM5/9/21
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Op zondag 9 mei 2021 om 17:39:07 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
An excellent article, also about Crochet's interpretations. Her playing is fragile in a way that is difficult to describe. The same is true of her Bach. This may be due to the clarity of her playing, but also to the fact that she does not present us with a finished product, but gives the impression that she is trying to find her way in the music.

Henk

gggg gggg

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May 9, 2021, 6:03:44 PM5/9/21
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I would say "brittle".

(Am I getting all artsy-f. again?)

Frank Lekens

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May 10, 2021, 2:18:12 AM5/10/21
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Op 9-5-2021 om 10:54 schreef HT:
Thanks for reminding me of this recording.

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/
Message has been deleted

vhorowitz

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May 11, 2021, 8:42:21 AM5/11/21
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On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 1:28:00 AM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:54:19 AM UTC-4, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >
> > Crochet's recording of the WTC is rarely mentioned and therefore
> > easily forgotten. But every time I hear it, I am completely captivated
> > by it.
> >
> Crochet's WTC resides permanently in my Audi's CD changer. I listen
> to it often while driving from Silly Valley to Reno and Tahoe. The other
> recordings that reside permanently in the CD changer are Leopoldo
> Querol's Iberia, Sofonitsky's Scriabin Sonatas, and an assortment of
> jazz pianists -- Brubeck, Evans, Garner, Hiromi, Monk, Peterson, and
> Tatum. The latter often improve my mileage by 30 mph or more. ;-)
>
> dk

Agreed Crochet’s Faure is fantastic! Unfortunately those transfers that are available are very poor dubs from lps. I’ve gotten much better results from my copies, but that’s not ideal either. What a shame that nobody has done a reissue from the original tapes. I wonder if they still are in existence. Does anyone know who is the custodian of the Vox masters these days?

MiNe109

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May 11, 2021, 2:15:46 PM5/11/21
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On 5/11/21 7:42 AM, vhorowitz wrote:

> Agreed Crochet’s Faure is fantastic! Unfortunately those transfers
> that are available are very poor dubs from lps. I’ve gotten much
> better results from my copies, but that’s not ideal either. What a
> shame that nobody has done a reissue from the original tapes. I
> wonder if they still are in existence. Does anyone know who is the
> custodian of the Vox masters these days?

The Faure transfer on Spotify is horrid! I wonder about the provenance
of the cds from her website. The discography identifies Vox but it's not
clear what that means about the actual product for sale.

Frank Berger

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May 11, 2021, 2:17:56 PM5/11/21
to
I e-mailed an order to her website last week and have not heard back. The WTC CD (same cover as on her web site, so I'm guessing the same transfer) is available at Amazon.

Frank Berger

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May 11, 2021, 3:06:34 PM5/11/21
to
The WTC set I ordered from Amazon came today and is a Music & Arts release.

MiNe109

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May 11, 2021, 3:25:00 PM5/11/21
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That one sounds okay on Spotify. Thanks for the report.

Frank Berger

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May 11, 2021, 4:41:43 PM5/11/21
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I see that Discogs shows a "near mint" copy of the Faueé Vox vol. 1 and a "like new" copy of vol. 2. Someone should buy these, transfer them and make them available to all of us. This assume the Vox LPs actually sounded pretty good in the first place.

Mandryka

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May 26, 2023, 12:00:13 PM5/26/23
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On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 2:13:36 PM UTC+1, Mark Obert-Thorn wrote:
> On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-4, Steve Emerson wrote:
> > I prefer the super-romantic Emma Boynet. Like the canonical Albert Ferber, Boynet recorded maybe 40% of the piano works. No official CD releases.
> It's coming from APR. I just finished the transfers.
>
> Mark O-T

And much appreciated by me at least.
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