Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
deac...@yahoo.com
symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
out of his misery!
Four CDs for the price of three, the cover says.
And no wonder! A slower, more soporific Brahms cycle is impossible to
imagine. I haven't checked the timings, leaving that job to Hurwitz et
al., but the clear impression one gets is of a conductor leading the
orchestra at a practise tempo. The orchestra struggles to stretch the
phrases out in this veritable taffy-pull.
A truly painful experience and a waste of good money. Unfortunately it
is a long time since I bought this set and promptly lost it in the sea
of CDs, otherwise I would try to return it.
I checked on Google and it would appear that this cycle, as well as
others with the same maestro have won prizes somewhere. Quelle
surprise!
Where are those speed-demons Bruno Walter or Furtwangler when you
really need them? Let alone AT, of course.
TD
Gerrit Stolte
> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
> out of his misery!
>
> Four CDs for the price of three, the cover says.
Well, since you paid that much for a set, 2001 sold for 5 bucks for the
last two years, you should actually consider putting yourself out of it ...
allankohrman
almost immediately sold it on ebay.
Allan Kohrman
Newton, MA
David Gomberg
deac...@yahoo.com says...
> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
{much snipped}
> TD
My sympathies on your loss. I was unfortunate enough to have been
subjected to T Sanderling's conducting "prowess" with the National
Symphony in 1998 . To quote myself (from a letter to friend): "It is
often difficult to tell what a conductor is doing from directly behind
him. But it was odd to watch a man wave a stick and move the rest of his
body in two seemingly independent ways." [About his efforts in the
Brahms violin concerto:] "...here, in a slow movement, Sanderling's
idiosyncrasies rather destroyed any sense of flow in the accompaniment.
I really think (and it was confirmed after intermission) that the
orchestra was having serious problems following him (and this was the
second night)." And: "After intermission, it was Sanderling vs. Dvorak
Sym #7. I don't think he would recognize a legato phrase if it bit him
in the ass. This is my favorite of Dvorak's symphonies and I just hated
this performance. All the above problems and more. He seemed to go out
of his way to make things poke out, like broken twigs in a bundle."
The Washington Post critic (in this case Pierre Ruhe, with whom I rarely
ever agreed about performances we both heard) wrote, in part:
"Sanderling's musical heritage comes from his father, Kurt, one of the
great conductors of the century. Sanderling fils never took charge of
the Brahms concerto, offering unclear cues to the orchestra and clunky
rapport with the soloist. His interpretation of Dvorak's Symphony No. 7
in D Minor was decidedly undeveloped; one is tempted to call it
immature. Despite some warm playing from the cello section in the second
movement, conductor and orchestra were rarely thinking together. The
seductive third movement, a dancing scherzo, came closest to being a
complete statement, but it, too, failed to congeal."
It is my intention to never attend a concert in which T Sanderling is a
participant, nor have I any interest in any recording in which he may
have been involved.
--
Dave Gomberg
For email replies, remove the NO SPAM
Martha & Russ Oppenheim
deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
> out of his misery!
>
Thomas Sanderling's slo-mo Brahms came up for discussion in the ng quite
some time ago. We could have warned you.
deac...@yahoo.com
Unfortunately I bought the set long before this newsgoup even existed,
I am sure.
But I would appreciate knowing which critic ever gave this set even a
vaguely positive review. Perhaps I should check Gramofile.
TD
Paul Goldstein
says...
What I recall is a rave from the Fanfare reviewer, who I think was one Michael
Jameson. I could have the name wrong. Simon?
Paul Goldstein
John Wiser
deac...@yahoo.com
> says...
> >Martha & Russ Oppenheim wrote:
> >>deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's
Brahms
> >>> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped
me.
> >>> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
> >>> out of his misery!
...
Michael
> Jameson. I could have the name wrong. Simon?
>
Anyone who buys a recording of standard rep made by a conductor
who would see fit to record music by Richard Nanes
richly deserves what he/she gets.
--
John Wiser
cee...@frontiernet.not
David Gomberg
> <moppe...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>
> >> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> >> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
> >> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
> >> out of his misery!
> >>
> >
> >Thomas Sanderling's slo-mo Brahms came up for discussion in the ng quite
> >some time ago. We could have warned you.
>
> Unfortunately I bought the set long before this newsgoup even existed,
> I am sure.
Tom, this is the kind of stupid remark that makes me sorry that I even
bothered to agree with you about T Sanderling. Usenet goes back to 1981.
This newsgroup goes back to sometime in the mid-late 80s. The Fanfare
review of the T Sanderling Brahms Symphonies is mentioned several times
in contributions to rmcr in 1997 (when the review appeared). Once in a
while, you ought to consider not shooting from the lip.
deac...@yahoo.com
I think you are too hard on Mr. Nanes.
He tries hard, you know.
And he undoubtedly paid real money.
TD
deac...@yahoo.com
deac...@yahoo.com
Sorry, o wise one.
I stand corrected. You are even older than I had imagined.
TD
sorach
news:42rbvvs938mmffdll...@4ax.com:
> It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
> If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
> out of his misery!
>
Google search. I was about to buy, but got forewarned. If price is the
issue you would be better getting the Furtwangler Music & Arts, or
Echenbach (Sp?) on Virgin.
Paul Goldstein
No slight intended, John ;-)
T. Sanderling's Mahler 6 is at least presentable; not so that Brahms set.
Paul Goldstein
Sol L. Siegel
>If price is the issue you would be better getting the Furtwangler
>Music & Arts, or Echenbach (Sp?) on Virgin.
After playing WF's Lucerne Beethoven 9 for New Year's, I put
on his Jan. '45 Brahms 2 from the M&A set (CD-4941, of
course). Thrilling and electrifying. Arturo who?
BTW, it's Eschenbach. ;>)
-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA
--------------------
"I really liked it. Even the music was good." - Yogi Berra, after seeing
"Tosca"
--------------------
(Remove "exitspam" from the end of my e-mail address to respond.)
Len of MusicWeb
"sorach" <sora...@cscoms.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94656228...@203.146.30.158...
> deac...@yahoo.com wrote in
> news:42rbvvs938mmffdll...@4ax.com:
>
> > It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
> > symphonies.
Well perhaps you should check out MusicWeb occassionally.
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2001/Apr01/Brahms_Sanderling.htm
where Marc Bridle said:
These discs have only just become widely available - even though they were
first released in 1999. Quite why they should now be given a broad selling
base is beyond me for they are amongst the worst performances I have ever
heard of these symphonies.
Len
Andy Evans
bars of Walter in comparison) but there were several on the ng who were still
recommending them.
=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.
deac...@yahoo.com
Evans) wrote:
>I've been saying these performances were boring for years (well - put on ten
>bars of Walter in comparison) but there were several on the ng who were still
>recommending them.
And they are now ducking for cover, right?
TD
Paul Goldstein
>
>I've been saying these performances were boring for years (well - put on ten
>bars of Walter in comparison) but there were several on the ng who were still
>recommending them.
I can't think of a single positive statement about Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
cycle. Are you confusing him with his Dad?
Paul Goldstein
Andy Evans
cycle. Are you confusing him with his Dad?>
Aha - the plot thickens. All I can say in reply to this is "if I am, then
that's exactly what I mean". Yes - I did mean Kurt, and that's exactly what I
meant - I'd prefer ten bars of Walter to the sum total of all Brahms by the
Sanderlings. Unless there's some distant cousin who has the finesse of
conductors like Walter, Monteux, Klemperer etc.
deac...@yahoo.com
Evans) wrote:
>I can't think of a single positive statement about Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
>cycle. Are you confusing him with his Dad?>
>
>Aha - the plot thickens. All I can say in reply to this is "if I am, then
>that's exactly what I mean". Yes - I did mean Kurt, and that's exactly what I
>meant - I'd prefer ten bars of Walter to the sum total of all Brahms by the
>Sanderlings.
Are there more than the two we do know? Little Sanderlings to come?
TD
Matthew燘. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
news:MPG.1a5fe9567...@news.comcast.giganews.com:
Actually, wasn't this newsgroup spun off from rec.music.classical in early
1995? If so, I was around from very nearly the beginning. Anyway, that
still predates the likely issue date of the recordings in question.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's fault!
Simon Roberts
That's him. The problem with his review isn't that it's favorable (he's
entitled to enjoy spineless, slow, slovenly Brahms) but that it completely
misdescribes the performances - I bought the effing set at full price (it's now
almost free) based on his descriptions (which made references to fire and drive
and Toscanini and Furtwaengler etc.) rather than his enthusiasm. Does anyone
still employ him as a reviewer?
Simon
Jan Winter
>It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
>symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
>If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
>out of his misery!
>
>Four CDs for the price of three, the cover says.
Why complain? You knew what you was in for.
--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
email: replace <invalidname> by <j.winter>
deac...@yahoo.com
>>What I recall is a rave from the Fanfare reviewer, who I think was one Michael
>>Jameson. I could have the name wrong. Simon?
>
>That's him. The problem with his review isn't that it's favorable (he's
>entitled to enjoy spineless, slow, slovenly Brahms) but that it completely
>misdescribes the performances - I bought the effing set at full price (it's now
>almost free) based on his descriptions (which made references to fire and drive
>and Toscanini and Furtwaengler etc.) rather than his enthusiasm. Does anyone
>still employ him as a reviewer?
Fanfare is an "employer"?
TD
deac...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:18:58 -0500, deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
>>symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
>>If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
>>out of his misery!
>>
>>Four CDs for the price of three, the cover says.
>
>Why complain? You knew what you was in for.
Not at all.
The review was ecstatic.
The performances are earthbound.
TD
David Gomberg
oy兀earthlink.net says...
> David Gomberg <Dav...@SPAMGomberg.info> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> >... Usenet goes back to 1981.
> > This newsgroup goes back to sometime in the mid-late 80s. The Fanfare
> > review of the T Sanderling Brahms Symphonies is mentioned several times
> > in contributions to rmcr in 1997 (when the review appeared). Once in a
> > while, you ought to consider not shooting from the lip.
>
> Actually, wasn't this newsgroup spun off from rec.music.classical in early
> 1995? If so, I was around from very nearly the beginning. Anyway, that
> still predates the likely issue date of the recordings in question.
Yes, that's true (I haven't checked on exactly when the split took
place). I confabulated rmc/rmcr (which in some sense is correct). My
point to TD is still correct because, as you point out, the review in
question and the reactions to it in rmcr were in 1997.
Jan Winter
Sure. But "four for the price of three"? Cannot be more than 75%. With
Brahms, less than 100% is not enough.
deac...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 17:12:08 -0500, deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 20:59:31 GMT, inval...@xs4all.nl (Jan Winter)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 17:18:58 -0500, deac...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>It must have been a review that made me buy Thomas Sanderling's Brahms
>>>>symphonies. But precisely who the guilty reviewer was has escaped me.
>>>>If I do ever remember, I shall just have to buy a pistol and put him
>>>>out of his misery!
>>>>
>>>>Four CDs for the price of three, the cover says.
>>>
>>>Why complain? You knew what you was in for.
>>
>>Not at all.
>>
>>The review was ecstatic.
>>
>>The performances are earthbound.
>
>Sure. But "four for the price of three"? Cannot be more than 75%. With
>Brahms, less than 100% is not enough.
This has to be Dutch logic.
TD
Jan Winter
Dutch arithmetic you mean.
Matthew燘. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
I have no doubt that what you say is true; I just wanted to nitpick in
order to establish the correct timeline, so that it couldn't be used for
argument by the "opposition" later.
Andrew T. Kay
[...]
> I bought the effing set at full price (it's now
>almost free)
Well, they're going in the right direction. When they reach the point of paying
me to take it, I'll snap one up.
--Todd K
Jan Depondt
"Jan Winter" <inval...@xs4all.nl> schreef in bericht
news:3ff74327...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
I was very happy to find them in Holland: four discs for the price of six.
That way you enjoy them so much more.
deac...@yahoo.com
wrote:
That won't come, of course.
But perhaps if they drop them in brown paper bags from a helicopter?
TD