Musicweb International Recommends - Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique

[Gerard]

Musicweb International publishes a list called "Musicweb International
Recommends", with "favourite recordings of .. major repertoire works",
without comments ("nomination to the list is sufficient recommendation").

http://www.musicweb-international.com/recommends/home.htm

Recently has been added:

Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
------------------------------------------

Ataulfo Argenta/Paris Conservatoire O (Decca) [RMay]
Sir John Barbirolli/Halle O (Pye/Barbirolli Society, 1959) [MG]
Sir Thomas Beecham/Royal PO (EMI) [AL]
Sir Colin Davis/Royal Concertgebow O (Philips/Decca)
[SG][JQ][SV][LW][MC][AL] [DM review]
Sir John Eliot Gardiner/O Révolutionnaire et Romantique (Philips) [JQ]
Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna Brugge (Zig Zag Territoires) [DC review]
Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (Deutsche Grammophon, 1970s) [PCG]
Charles Munch/Boston SO (RCA/HDTT) [RMo][JW]
Charles Munch/Hungarian Radio & TV O (Philips) [SV]
Paul Paray/Detroit SO (Mercury) [RMay]
Michel Plasson/ Toulouse Capitole O (EMI) [GPJ]
Robin Ticciati/Scottish Chamber O (Linn) [DM review]

I don't know why Barbirolli and Plasson are on this list. There are no
reviews of these 2 recordings on MusicWeb.
(I found the recording by Plasson yesterday in a record store - I didn't
hear it yet.)
OTOH not many good recommendations are missing.

I'ld like to add at least:
- Bernstein (Sony)
- Chung (DG)

And maybe:
- Markevitch (DG)
- Martinon (EMI)
- Paavo Järvi (Telarc)
- Tilson Thomas (RCA)

[richard...@gmail.com]

Add to that Beecham's mono recording of the work with a French orchestra (EMI). The sound is of a French-style French orchestra, not an internationalised one.

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:5fe45b9a-11d2-401e...@googlegroups.com...

Add to that Beecham's mono recording of the work with a French orchestra
(EMI). The sound is of a French-style French orchestra, not an
internationalised one.

===================

AFAIK that is the same orchestra he recorded his stereo version with:
French National Radio Orchestra, or Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion
Française.

[rapu...@spiritone.com]

Agreed on the Jarvi. I would add Jurworski/Pittsburgh on Pentatone and Mitropolous/NYP which has been on CD and needs a reissue.

Stan Punzel

[jrsnfld]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 2:08:39 PM UTC-7, rapu...@spiritone.com wrote:
> Agreed on the Jarvi. I would add Jurworski/Pittsburgh on Pentatone and Mitropolous/NYP which has been on CD and needs a reissue.

> Stan Punzel

Jurworski = Janowski?

--Jeff

[rapu...@spiritone.com]

Yes, thank you. Not liking the 'automatic' spellcheck on this tablet thingy.

[richard...@gmail.com]

It is, but the recordings and performances differ. The mono version was recorded in Nov 1957 with additional time in May 1958.Released as CDM7 64032 2. The stereo version I have- recording dated unspecified- is 7 47863 2.
All movement timings differ - by 3 minutes in the 3rd movement.

[Dave Cook]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:32:55 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:

> - Bernstein (Sony)

That would be my choice, as well (the 1963 NYP recording).

Dave Cook

[Orchman]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:32:55 AM UTC-4, Gerard wrote:
> Musicweb International publishes a list called "Musicweb International
>
> Recommends", with "favourite recordings of .. major repertoire works",
>
> without comments ("nomination to the list is sufficient recommendation").

> Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique

I'd add:

either, or both Solti/CSOs ['72, '92] - amazing virtuosity, orcheral execution, and
Mitropoulos/NYPO ['56], a long-time favorite

I'd exclude Munch, at least the BSO ones - too sloppy, crazy tempi resulting in some really ragged execution...

[richard...@gmail.com]

Agreed to the Solti. I have a Bernstein NYPO 1968 version released for a tour of Europe, also very good.

[Dave Cook]

On 2014-04-07, Orchman <dgall...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Mitropoulos/NYPO ['56], a long-time favorite

Available from Sony Japan:

http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/artist_Berlioz-1803-1869_000000000021028/item_Symphonie-Fantastique-Mitropoulos-Nyp-debussy-La-Mer_5196842

Though I think the LPs sound better.

There was also a Urania release and now one on an Italian label,
Fabula Classica, which are probably transfers from the Lp.

Dave Cook

[Frank Berger]

On 4/7/2014 7:55 PM, Dave Cook wrote:
> On 2014-04-07, Orchman <dgall...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Mitropoulos/NYPO ['56], a long-time favorite

2-24-1957, actually.

[Terry]

In article <a6cc6$53412d44$54686658$23...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,

I have several of the listed recordings of this work, but I must say
that my favourite, by a fair margin, is that by Willem van Otterloo
conducting the Hague Residency Orchestra, beautifully recorded in the
Concertgebouw in 1959. No other performance is as colourful or as
passionate. I searched for CD incarnations for many years, finally
getting it in a box with 12 other CDs. Worth every penny.

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:bb3ec2d2-e3b7-463e...@googlegroups.com...

I have a Bernstein NYPO 1968 version released for a tour of Europe, also
very good.

====================

I had that recording too, on LP. I've never liked it (and didn't listen to
it during decades), while his earlier recording (1963) is one of the best,
imo.

[Frank Berger]

There is, or was, a 1951 recording with Otterloo in a Philips box titled
"Berlin Philharmonic Rediscovered (1951-1953)."

[Terry]

In article <c5mdnZBDydsCc97O...@supernews.com>, Frank

That was in mono, and not as good a performance as the Hague one, which
is in stereo.

[Randy Lane]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:32:55 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:

> Musicweb International publishes a list called "Musicweb International Recommends", with "favourite recordings of .. major repertoire works", without comments ("nomination to the list is sufficient recommendation"). http://www.musicweb-international.com/recommends/home.htm Recently has been added: Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique ------------------------------------------ Ataulfo Argenta/Paris Conservatoire O (Decca) [RMay] Sir John Barbirolli/Halle O (Pye/Barbirolli Society, 1959) [MG] Sir Thomas Beecham/Royal PO (EMI) [AL] Sir Colin Davis/Royal Concertgebow O (Philips/Decca) [SG][JQ][SV][LW][MC][AL] [DM review] Sir John Eliot Gardiner/O Révolutionnaire et Romantique (Philips) [JQ] Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna Brugge (Zig Zag Territoires) [DC review] Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (Deutsche Grammophon, 1970s) [PCG] Charles Munch/Boston SO (RCA/HDTT) [RMo][JW] Charles Munch/Hungarian Radio & TV O (Philips) [SV] Paul Paray/Detroit SO (Mercury) [RMay] Michel Plasson/ Toulouse Capitole O (EMI) [GPJ] Robin Ticciati/Scottish Chamber O (Linn) [DM review] I don't know why Barbirolli and Plasson are on this list. There are no reviews of these 2 recordings on MusicWeb. (I found the recording by Plasson yesterday in a record store - I didn't hear it yet.) OTOH not many good recommendations are missing. I'ld like to add at least: - Bernstein (Sony) - Chung (DG) And maybe: - Markevitch (DG) - Martinon (EMI) - Paavo Järvi (Telarc) - Tilson Thomas (RCA)

While the editorial comments are in French, this is a nce discography of the work:

http://patachonf.free.fr/musique/berlioz/fantastique.php?p=b

[Dave Cook]

For those who want to compare, the only CD issue of the 1968 recording
I'm aware of was by CBS in the "Great Performances" series:

http://www.amazon.com/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-Fantastique-Performances/dp/B00000DRZT/

I don't believe Sony ever issued anything but the 1963 recording,
sometimes mislabeled as the 1968 recording.

Dave

[Frank Berger]

The "Bernstein Century" version, Sony 60698, subtitled "Berlioz takes a
Trip," shows 1968.

[Dave Cook]

On 2014-04-09, Frank Berger <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The "Bernstein Century" version, Sony 60698, subtitled "Berlioz takes a
> Trip," shows 1968.

But only for the talk, not the symphony, which is advertised as the
first release of the 1963 recording, when it was actually Sony's
second release of that recording, the first being mis-dated as 1968.

Dave Cook

[Frank Berger]

Oh. Thanks. I love being able to correct errors in my database.

[Gerard]

"Dave Cook" wrote in message
news:53458482$0$61502$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com...

========================

Some details about the issues on Sony can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Symphonie-fantastique-Benvenuto-Damnation/dp/B0000027LY/

""""
In 1990, the 1968 version was issued as part of the "Great Performances"
series: Hector Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique (CBS Great Performances)
In 1992, the 1963 version was issued as part of the silly "Royal Edition"
Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique / Overture de Benvenuto Cellini / La
Damnation de Faust- Rakoczy March / Roman Carnival Overture (Royal Edition).
REVIEWED HERE. It was MISLABELED as the 1968 version.
In 1999, the 1963 version was issued as part of the "Bernstein Century
Edition" Bernstein Century - Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique, etc.. It was
MISLABELED as "FIRST RELEASE ON CD of the 1963 version."
""""

[Oscar]

What about LENNY's 1976 version with Orchestre nationale de France? At least it will sound good -- EMI's mid-70's analog sound was top of the pops.

From audaud.com http://tinyurl.com/koafvl3

<< BERLIOZ: Symphonie fantastique Op. 14 - Orchestre National de France/ Leonard Bernstein (1976) - EMI/Hi-Q Records xrcd24 HIQXRCD14 ****:

There are plenty of recordings of Hector Berlioz's first great work, stimulated by his obsession with the British actress Harriet Smithson. His first performance of it in 1830 in Paris put him immediately at the forefront of Romantic period music. It used the most musicians of any orchestral work written to that time: over 90. Unlike Stravinsky's later Rite of Spring or Satie's Parade, it did not cause a riot, but it was clearly a novel and powerful work, which came complete with a program detailing the series of fantasies which provided the title of the symphony. Harriet became the idée fixe of the work.

The work has five movements instead of the usual four of a symphony. They are 1) Reveries - Passions, 2) A Ball, 3) Scene in the Fields, 4) March to the Scaffold, 5) Dreams of a Witches' Sabbath. The symphony has the subtitle of "Episode in the Life of an Artist," and the march to the guillotine is for after the artist has supposedly killed the woman who has plagued him and is paying for it with his life. In the final movement he is experiencing his own funeral surrounded by witches and evil beings. The loud bells in it are intended to shake up the listener, and have provided audiophiles an exciting sound to focus on in recordings.

Leonard Bernstein had a distinctively dramatic approach to the Symphonie fantastique. His original recording of it for Columbia was made in 1963 with the New York Philharmonic and reissued using Sony's SBM on Sony Classical SMK 60968. Bernstein later re-recorded the work for EMI at the Salle Wagram in Paris in 1976, and this is the one which has been remastered from the original tapes at Abbey Road Studios by Resonance Recordings Ltd. and issued on this $40 xrcd24 from JVC, which plays on any standard CD deck.

I naturally had a few other Symphonie fantastiques in my collection and did some comparisons. I actually preferred the 1963 Bernstein version, which seemed to have more of the edgy drama which he later rolled off a bit. The sonics are quite good and not that much worse than the Hi-Q reissue, except for a lesser dynamic range. In addition, you get a quarter-hour talk by Bernstein (made in 1964) that encapsulates his amazing music instruction approach which he popularized in his TV appearances. It certainly beats the on-the-podium comments from various conductors I have heard during my lifetime. His talk is titled "Berlioz Takes a Trip" and is pure 1960s thru and thru. He doesn't say anything about the artist "poisoning himself" with opium--as was the usual description of this work at the time. Instead he describes the Symphonie fantastique as the first psychedelic symphony.

Then there is the RCA Living Stereo SACD of the work with Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony Orchestra (82876-67899-2). While only two channels instead of the three most of the Living Stereo SACDs are, it still sizzles and this 1954 recording has the BSO sounding richer and fuller than either of the Bernstein versions. For a straight multichannel SACD I also like the Telarc (60578) by Paavo Jarvi and the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra. Both the RCA and Telarc fill out the symphony with the "Love Scene" from Berlioz's Roméo and Juliette.

--John Sunier >>

[Terry]

In article <d8f8a225-947f-427b...@googlegroups.com>,

... in the meantime, fine performances even occurred outside the USA.
And some of them were recorded, believe it or not.

[Gerard]

"Frank Berger" wrote in message
news:LLKdndjGt5guENjO...@supernews.com...

===================

It clearly states that the symphony has been recorded in 1963:
"Recorded on May 27, 1963".
The track "Berlioz take a trip" however is labeled "first release on cd ...
recorded on March 5, 1968"; but that is not the recoprding date of the
symphony on that issue.

[Frank Berger]

Are you experiencing USA-envy? Most of the participants are Americans,
so there will be some America-centricity. Deal with it.

[Gerard]

"Frank Berger" wrote in message

news:YP-dnY9lAupthtXO...@supernews.com...

================

Thanks to people like you there is very MUCH of that centricity.
Without any need of course.

[papos...@yahoo.com]

If you really want to hear a jaw-dropping recording of the Fantastique, try Eugen Szenkar.

NWDR Sinfonie-Orchester, 20 February 1950, Live. Sound Engineer: Friedrich Schnapp.

http://problembearsvault.blogspot.com/2009/10/eugen-szenkar-portrait.html

[Tassilo]

I love all three of Bernstein's studio recordings of the Fantastique. I have no use for any of Davis's studio recordings of the piece, which doesn't mean I don't like some of Davis's studio recordings of Berlioz including, e.g., the early studio Cleopatre & B & B. (Forgive absence of diacritical marks.) I've heard at least one terrific live Bernstein S.f. as well . . . and too many Munch's to count.

-Tassilo

[Tassilo]

On Thursday, April 10, 2014 1:35:29 PM UTC-4, Oscar wrote:
> What about LENNY's 1976 version with Orchestre nationale de France? At least it will sound good -- EMI's mid-70's analog sound was top of the pops.

It's terrific, and I actually prefer the EMI Harold with Bernstein and the same forces to his much loved earlier NYP account.

-dg

[Oscar]

What about Louis Fremaux w/ LSO on Collins Classics? I have at least a dozen Symphonie fantastiques, but I think I'll buy a couple more. One of my favorite orchestral works, and I think it's pretty bullet-proof, too.

Even Americans can play it well.

[Tassilo]

Re: Bernstein's CBS recordings of the Fantastique

The March 5, 1968, recording was the first of the two CBS recordings of the Fantastique with Bernstein to make it to compact disc . . . on CBS Great Performances:

http://tinyurl.com/n726qtv

The recording released in the Bernstein "Royal Edition" was identified as the same performance but was actually the recording made on 27 May 1963:

http://tinyurl.com/lsgelpv

The performances are audibly different, the timings significantly different:

1968, CBS Great Perfs
1. 12:34
2. 6:09
3. 15:06
4. 4:30

1963, incorrectly identified as 1968, Royal Edition
1. 13:14
2. 6:11
3. 17:18
4. 4:47

The last movement is chopped up into four sections in the Royal Edition, and I'm too lazy to do the math.

-Tassilo

[Charles Milton Ling]

I am fairly sure that my memory does not deceive me if I state that I
once had an LP of Boulez conducting the Fantastique that was the most
compelling interpretation I ever had. I fear I remember neither the
orchestra nor the date of the recording.

--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Gpg4win encryption available

[Christopher Webber]

On 12/04/2014 05:36, Charles Milton Ling wrote:
> I am fairly sure that my memory does not deceive me if I state that I
> once had an LP of Boulez conducting the Fantastique that was the most
> compelling interpretation I ever had. I fear I remember neither the
> orchestra nor the date of the recording.

LSO 1973, I think. It's an integral part of my collection, too - not
least because it was the first recording to pair the work properly with
its other half, 'Lelio': and, for me, the one makes little sense without
the other. I'm with you, also, in finding this Boulez LSO recording as
thrilling as it always was.

[Alan Dawes]

In article <94232f37-1f0c-4b90...@googlegroups.com>,

Tassilo <david...@aol.com> wrote:
> I have no use for any of Davis's studio recordings of the piece

What is your opinion of the live performance on LSO Live LSO 0007 ?

Alan

--
alan....@argonet.co.uk
alan....@riscos.org
Using an Acorn RiscPC

[gggrou...@gmail.com]

The following survey of recordings may be of interest:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/berliozsym.html

[Terry]

In article <YP-dnY9lAupthtXO...@supernews.com>, Frank

Berger <frankd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/11/2014 11:12 AM, Terry wrote:
> > In article <d8f8a225-947f-427b...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Oscar <oscaredwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>

<snip>

> >
> > ... in the meantime, fine performances even occurred outside the USA.
> > And some of them were recorded, believe it or not.
> >
>
> Are you experiencing USA-envy? Most of the participants are Americans,
> so there will be some America-centricity. Deal with it.

"Envy" is certainly not the word that springs most readily to mind.

[Christopher Webber]

On 12/04/2014 08:22, Terry wrote:
> "Envy" is certainly not the word that springs most readily to mind.

What does spring to mind, is that some of those same, majority
"participants" touting Yankee Berlioz are the first to carp when they
perceive Gramophone to be favouring UK performances!!

[JohnA]

Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14
Pierre Boulez, London Symphony
Recorded 10/24-25/1967, London
First US LP release: 32 B1 0010, with Lelio
2nd US LP release: M 30587 [Lelio was M 30588]
Boulez edition, Sony Classical: SM3K 64013, 88697-56231-2

[Gerard]

"JohnA" wrote in message
news:ce618dd3-56e1-4ead...@googlegroups.com...

===============

Thanks. I have this recording of the symphony on Sony Theta SMK 60135
without any indication of the date or recording.

[Tassilo]

When Sony compiled their "Boulez Edition" through which virtually all of Boulez's old CBS recordings were reissued on CD (and also one new recording, an anthology of works by Luciano Berio with the Ensemble Intercontemporain), Boulez said that he didn't wish to act as a revisionist historian of his own past, but he did ask Sony not to reissue exactly two recordings: his 1970 recording of Beethoven's 5th with the New Philharmonia and his 1967 LSO recording of the Symphonie fantastique. Sony disregarded his wishes in the case of the Fantastique, and could hardly have done otherwise if they intended to reissue a 3-disc set of all of his CBS Berlioz recordings. It would have been a very odd anthology indeed without it, especially since it included the Lélio recorded at the same time. (Sony did reissue the recording of Beethoven's 5th on CD outside of the Boulez Edition in Japan.)

When the Fantastique was originally released, apparently the comparatively slow tempo chosen for the Marche au supplice was somewhat controversial, as Boulez anticipated it might be, insisting that the movement was a solemn march and not a galop, perhaps in reference to Munch. I'm not entirely convinced by the performance overall, but I do love the Scène aux champs, and I don't have a problem with the tempo for the march.

On the other hand, Boulez's later Cleveland Orchestra recording of the Fantastique on DG is ghastly beyond all imagining, in large because of the creepy sound visited on it during the recording and post-production. It's one of those horribly glassy, smooth, and artificial-sounding DG recordings that thoroughly misrepresent what Boulez actually sounds like in live performance.

-dg

[richard...@gmail.com]

My copy of the 1968 recording is CBS LP SPR21. The label states Made In England P 1968.
The LP sleeve subtitle is Leonard Bernstein/New York Philharmonic 1968 Tour
and on the reverse: Under the auspices of the US Department of State. Trans World Airlines is co-operating in making this tour possible.

Hopefully this is in fact the 1968 recording!
Richard

[richard...@gmail.com]

The SF does sound good. I hope to hear it in quad some day. I have the LP HMV ASD3397 of the Symphonie. Both the EMI LPs beat CBS sound handily.

[richard...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the timings. It looks like my 1968 LP is 1968.

[Dave Cook]

On 2014-04-12, richard...@gmail.com <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hopefully this is in fact the 1968 recording!

With luck, whatever flunky mis-labeled the Sony issues did not have a
time machine.

Dave

[Charles Milton Ling]

Thank you all! That clears up my increasingly foggy memory. It was my
introduction to Lélio.

[Gerard]

"Dave Cook" wrote in message
news:7a230112-38ed-4d49...@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:32:55 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:

> - Bernstein (Sony)

That would be my choice, as well (the 1963 NYP recording).

Dave Cook

=====================

While the recording by Colin Davis with the Concertgebouw Orchestra has been
my first choice (out of many) since long, I'm curious now if Jansons recent
remake (with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks) will take
over. I've only heard snippets of all movements, but I'm sure that I have to
buy this. I think it is a wonderful performance.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/BR%2BKlassik/900121
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-fantastique/hnum/4033100

On Youtube his London Proms performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK6iAxe0oEc
or (without announcements - about "the greatest living conductor" - and
interview)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfzGDHt7mJQ

It's great.

[jrsnfld]

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:31:00 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:

>
> While the recording by Colin Davis with the Concertgebouw Orchestra has been
> my first choice (out of many) since long, I'm curious now if Jansons recent
> remake (with the Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks) will take
> over. I've only heard snippets of all movements, but I'm sure that I have to
> buy this. I think it is a wonderful performance.

> http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/BR%2BKlassik/900121

What did you think of Jansons' recording on EMI with the Concertgebouw?

--Jeff

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:b386a8b1-4bd5-4407...@googlegroups.com...

==================

I have not listened to it since long. (I will have to listen to it again
soon.)
I remember that I was disappointed a little then, because it was not so very
special as expected; it was more or less a very good 'middle of the road'
performance, no match for Colin Davis with this orchestra.
IIRC Jansons made his Concertgebouw debut with this same symphony, and
rumours said that it was a spectacular good performance. EMI had announced
to make a recording, but it took EMI a long time to make one, and
spectacular it was not.
But I'll try to give it a new listening in the near future.

Did you hear Janson's new recording?

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:b386a8b1-4bd5-4407...@googlegroups.com...

=======================

I did a little compare, with the recordings by Colin Davis (Concertgebouw
Orchestra, Philips), Jansons (Concertgebouw Orchestra, EMI) and Ticciati
(Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Linn).
(Ticciati got rave reviews recently, like:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Apr12/Berlioz_Ticciati_CKD400.htm
)

Jansons is better than I remembered, but I prefer what I've heard of his new
recording.
Of these 3 recordings I prefer Davis. Hard to say why exactly, but this is
the recording I like the best. Davis delivers me everything I want to hear
and his recording sounds fresh, lively, energetic to me every time I hear
it. Part of its success is of the recording; the sound is fantastic. The EMI
recording by Jansons sounds a little "foggy" - the Linn recording is very
clear, making it clear that this a CHAMBER orchestra.

I will definitely buy the new recording by Jansons.

[jrsnfld]

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:25:53 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
==================

> I did a little compare, with the recordings by Colin Davis (Concertgebouw
> Orchestra, Philips), Jansons (Concertgebouw Orchestra, EMI) and Ticciati
> (Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Linn).
> (Ticciati got rave reviews recently, like:
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Apr12/Berlioz_Ticciati_CKD400.htm)

> Jansons is better than I remembered, but I prefer what I've heard of his new
> recording.
>
> Of these 3 recordings I prefer Davis. Hard to say why exactly, but this is
> the recording I like the best. Davis delivers me everything I want to hear
> and his recording sounds fresh, lively, energetic to me every time I hear
> it. Part of its success is of the recording; the sound is fantastic.

It's hard to believe I've never upgraded from the LP, but you are right that Davis has lovely sound. And there are so many other Fantastiques it's hard to justify getting it again on CD! It's a great recording: perhaps less "romantic" or weighty than what I sometimes look for, but of it's type--clear, energetic, lively--Davis/Concertgebouw is one of the best and Jansons is similarly fresh, clear, energetic, etc. Perhaps you like van Beinum as well?

>The EMI
> recording by Jansons sounds a little "foggy" - the Linn recording is very
> clear, making it clear that this a CHAMBER orchestra.

> I will definitely buy the new recording by Jansons.

I might do that as well, although with the EMI disc, the 2013 Proms concert and the 2001 telecast on YT (Berlin Phil?), not to mention whatever other Jansons Fantastiques I've recorded off the air, I'm not in a big hurry. I was lucky to hear Jansons conduct the Berlioz with Oslo PO back when.

With all these Jansons Fantastiques out there I wonder...has anyone recorded it more than Barenboim (four times)? He's actually quite good, but this piece has been served very well on disc (and in concert, like the BP/Gardiner performance that was re-broadcast a couple weeks ago--a beautifully shaped third movement and lots of fizzing energy and cleverly accentuated details elsewhere).

You pointed out others who ought to be on the MusicWeb list. Another who ought not be forgotten is the fine Pretre/BSO disc. Too bad it wasn't recorded a year or so later when Harold Wright was in the clarinet chair. And then there's the maniacly wonderful Paita/LSO, although I know some find it less refined than it ought to be. It's a favorite--a modern day successor to Oskar Fried and Bruno Walter's passionate early recordings--so unlike Davis.

By the way, a hallmark of Mariss Jansons' Fantastique performances is treatment of the sustained brass/wind dotted half note chords right after the big drumroll in the March to the Scaffold: of all the recordings I've heard, I can't remember anyone else that makes such a big deal out of an unmarked fp. (Except for *Arvid* Jansons, of course!) Can you think of any?

--Jeff

[Gerard]

"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:7f3f5528-513a-421c...@googlegroups.com...

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:25:53 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
==================

> I did a little compare, with the recordings by Colin Davis (Concertgebouw
> Orchestra, Philips), Jansons (Concertgebouw Orchestra, EMI) and Ticciati
> (Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Linn).
> (Ticciati got rave reviews recently, like:
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2012/Apr12/Berlioz_Ticciati_CKD400.htm)

> Jansons is better than I remembered, but I prefer what I've heard of his
> new
> recording.
>
> Of these 3 recordings I prefer Davis. Hard to say why exactly, but this is
> the recording I like the best. Davis delivers me everything I want to hear
> and his recording sounds fresh, lively, energetic to me every time I hear
> it. Part of its success is of the recording; the sound is fantastic.

It's hard to believe I've never upgraded from the LP, but you are right that
Davis has lovely sound. And there are so many other Fantastiques it's hard
to justify getting it again on CD! It's a great recording: perhaps less
"romantic" or weighty than what I sometimes look for, but of it's
type--clear, energetic, lively--Davis/Concertgebouw is one of the best and
Jansons is similarly fresh, clear, energetic, etc. Perhaps you like van
Beinum as well?

====================

I've never heard van Beinum's recording.
I can imagine that his is a very fine recording, but I will no go hunting
for it (but it could cross my path - I've found a nice record store, where
real surprises can be found).

This music 'needs' very good sound, imo. How is the sound on van Beinum's
recording?


----------------------------------

>The EMI
> recording by Jansons sounds a little "foggy" - the Linn recording is very
> clear, making it clear that this a CHAMBER orchestra.

> I will definitely buy the new recording by Jansons.

I might do that as well, although with the EMI disc, the 2013 Proms concert
and the 2001 telecast on YT (Berlin Phil?), not to mention whatever other
Jansons Fantastiques I've recorded off the air, I'm not in a big hurry. I
was lucky to hear Jansons conduct the Berlioz with Oslo PO back when.

====================

Wow, I understand: no hurry. You've probably heard many more recordings of
this music than I ever will. I was thinking that I have a lot of those
recordings (a few dozens), but it's only a beginning ;-)

--------------------------

With all these Jansons Fantastiques out there I wonder...has anyone recorded
it more than Barenboim (four times)? He's actually quite good, but this
piece has been served very well on disc (and in concert, like the
BP/Gardiner performance that was re-broadcast a couple weeks ago--a
beautifully shaped third movement and lots of fizzing energy and cleverly
accentuated details elsewhere).

=======================

According to
http://patachonf.free.fr/musique/berlioz/fantastique.php?p=m#m
10 recordings by Monteux exist, and 12 by Munch. And 5 by Barbirolli, 3 by
Barenboim, 7 by Colin Davis, 4 by Gergiev, 7 by Karajan, 4 by Maazel, 4 or 5
by Rattle, 4 by Rozhdestvensky

-----------------------------------

You pointed out others who ought to be on the MusicWeb list. Another who
ought not be forgotten is the fine Pretre/BSO disc. Too bad it wasn't
recorded a year or so later when Harold Wright was in the clarinet chair.
And then there's the maniacly wonderful Paita/LSO, although I know some find
it less refined than it ought to be. It's a favorite--a modern day successor
to Oskar Fried and Bruno Walter's passionate early recordings--so unlike
Davis.

===========================

Prêtre I didn't hear for a long time.
Paita is a "problem" to me. My first (imprinting) recording was Paray: a
fascinating performance of a (still) fascinating piece of music. I started
listening to classical music in the sixties, then Bernstein's 2nd recording
(a promo LP for his Europe tour) was my 2nd, and I disliked it.
Sensationalism. Actually it was for me a reason to stay away from Bernstein
during many years. Occasionaly I found a version of his first recording, and
I was surprised by it. Much later I found a few recordings by Paita (IIRC
Brahms 1, Dvorak 7, and Berlioz). I tried them. I've never heard a
performance of the Symphonie fantastique that was uglier. Absolutely the
opposite of Davis. I really don't understand why some people like it, apart
from his family maybe ;-)

------------------------------------

By the way, a hallmark of Mariss Jansons' Fantastique performances is
treatment of the sustained brass/wind dotted half note chords right after
the big drumroll in the March to the Scaffold: of all the recordings I've
heard, I can't remember anyone else that makes such a big deal out of an
unmarked fp. (Except for *Arvid* Jansons, of course!) Can you think of any?

===========================

Jansons likes the details. I once compared 8 or 9 recordings of
Tchaikovsky's 2nd symphony (occasion was a recording by Celibidache,
mentioned in another newsgroup), and 2 recordings ended as 'favorites':
Jansons and Pletnev (DG). It was easy to me to like these 2 more (than the
other recordings I had), but it was difficult (for me) to "analyze" why -
most important was their love for details and the way they realized them
lovefully (and never overdone, never meticulously).
And so it is with his Berlioz. Fascinating, and the details are so right!

BTW, I wonder: did you hear his recent Beethoven cycle (with his Bavarian
orchestra)?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Tassilo <david...@aol.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:94232f37-1f0c-4b90...@googlegroups.com:

> I love all three of Bernstein's studio recordings of the Fantastique. I
> have no use for any of Davis's studio recordings of the piece, which
> doesn't mean I don't like some of Davis's studio recordings of Berlioz
> including, e.g., the early studio Cleopatre & B & B. (Forgive absence
> of diacritical marks.) I've heard at least one terrific live Bernstein
> S.f. as well . . . and too many Munch's to count.

I don't share your negative opinion of the late Sir Colin, and my top
choice would be his Concertgebouw reading for Philips. Beecham mono is
preferable to Beecham stereo. A fine "sleeper" performance is
Slatkin/Lyon, a fairly recent Naxos issue; the March to the Scaffold
supplied the excerpt therefrom that I used for my procession at the
wedding. (I had certainly been waiting long enough for the occasion, and I
was going to do the music just as I wanted! The bride got the Overture to
Handel's "Deborah," which worked quite well indeed.)

Actually let me take a moment to go off on a tangent and run through the
music for the ceremony itself:

The chuppah carriers entered to the Fanfare from Dukas' "La Péri" (Boulez).
The rabbi made her entrance to the March from "The Love for Three Oranges."
I entered with the Berlioz mentioned above, and Debra with Handel; it was
good to use Handel other than the obvious and overplayed "Queen of Sheba"!
After I broke the glass, we turned and exited to truly Jewish music: the
Coronation March from Meyerbeer's "Le Prophète." Bernstein failed me here,
as he was too fast and superficial; the appropriately stately reading came
from the most unexpected source: Paray/Detroit!

Back to the Fantastique: Among truly modern recordings, I am still very
fond of Chung on DGG.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Dave Cook <dave...@nowhere.net> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:5349b475$0$51446$c3e8da3$eb76...@news.astraweb.com:

Perhaps he was too busy preparing the reissue of Szell's "Hadyn" symphonies.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Tassilo <david...@aol.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:3230eaad-8a3f-49b7...@googlegroups.com:

> (Sony did reissue the recording of Beethoven's 5th on CD outside of the
> Boulez Edition in Japan.)

How bad is it, and why?

[Mr. Mike]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 00:49:05 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper"
<oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:

>the March to the Scaffold
>supplied the excerpt therefrom that I used for my procession at the
>wedding.

There is supposed to be some irony in this statement, right?

[Alan Dawes]

In article <gha0l91png01qepsf...@4ax.com>,

Perhaps better than choosing from the Oremus Hymnal:
"See, the Conqueror mounts in triumph"
or even from Judas Maccabaeus:
"See, the conquering hero comes"

:-) there must be some way of doing a naughty smiley

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 12:32:55 AM UTC-10, Gerard wrote:
> Musicweb International publishes a list called "Musicweb International
>
> Recommends", with "favourite recordings of .. major repertoire works",
>
> without comments ("nomination to the list is sufficient recommendation").
>
>
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/recommends/home.htm
>
>
>
> Recently has been added:
>
>
>
> Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Ataulfo Argenta/Paris Conservatoire O (Decca) [RMay]
>
> Sir John Barbirolli/Halle O (Pye/Barbirolli Society, 1959) [MG]
>
> Sir Thomas Beecham/Royal PO (EMI) [AL]
>
> Sir Colin Davis/Royal Concertgebow O (Philips/Decca)
>
> [SG][JQ][SV][LW][MC][AL] [DM review]
>
> Sir John Eliot Gardiner/O Révolutionnaire et Romantique (Philips) [JQ]
>
> Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna Brugge (Zig Zag Territoires) [DC review]
>
> Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (Deutsche Grammophon, 1970s) [PCG]
>
> Charles Munch/Boston SO (RCA/HDTT) [RMo][JW]

Concerning Munch/Boston SO, do they mean the 1st or 2nd Living Stereo recording?

Or is there really a difference?

[William Sommerwerck]

> Concerning Munch/Boston SO, do they mean the 1st or 2nd
> Living Stereo recording?
> Or is there really a difference?

I think there is. I prefer the first, which I find livelier. It was the one
selected for SACD release.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Alan Dawes <alan....@argonet.co.uk> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:53fa3e51ab...@argonet.co.uk:

> In article <gha0l91png01qepsf...@4ax.com>,
> Mr. Mike <m...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 00:49:05 -0500, "Matthew B. Tepper"
>> <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> > the March to the Scaffold supplied the excerpt therefrom that I used
>> > for my procession at the wedding.
>
>> There is supposed to be some irony in this statement, right?
>
> Perhaps better than choosing from the Oremus Hymnal:
> "See, the Conqueror mounts in triumph"
> or even from Judas Maccabaeus:
> "See, the conquering hero comes"
>
>:-) there must be some way of doing a naughty smiley

Tempting; I could have done the whole thing as Handel; but the temptation
to include music by Jews and/or Frenchman was too great. (Meyerbeer and
Dukas, of course, count as both.)

[Terry]

In article <bf614$53416fb6$54686658$77...@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>,
Gerard <gh-nospam...@live.com> wrote:

> wrote in message
> news:5fe45b9a-11d2-401e...@googlegroups.com...
>
> Add to that Beecham's mono recording of the work with a French orchestra
> (EMI). The sound is of a French-style French orchestra, not an
> internationalised one.
>
> ===================
>
> AFAIK that is the same orchestra he recorded his stereo version with:
> French National Radio Orchestra, or Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion
> Fran�aise.
>
>
Maybe he means "before the orchestra became internationalised". I
recall this happening to the Lamoureux between the 1950s and the 1960s.

[Jerry]

On Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:24:28 AM UTC-4, Gerard wrote:
> "Dave Cook" wrote in message
>

> news:53458482$0$61502$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com...

>
>
>
> On 2014-04-08, Gerard <gh-nospam...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
>

> > news:bb3ec2d2-e3b7-463e...@googlegroups.com...
>
> >
>
> > I have a Bernstein NYPO 1968 version released for a tour of Europe, also
>
> > very good.
>
> >
>
> >====================
>
> >
>
> > I had that recording too, on LP. I've never liked it (and didn't listen to
>
> > it during decades), while his earlier recording (1963) is one of the best,
>
> > imo.
>
>
>
> For those who want to compare, the only CD issue of the 1968 recording
>
> I'm aware of was by CBS in the "Great Performances" series:
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Hector-Berlioz-Symphonie-Fantastique-Performances/dp/B00000DRZT/
>
>
>
> I don't believe Sony ever issued anything but the 1963 recording,
>
> sometimes mislabeled as the 1968 recording.
>
>
>
> ========================
>
>
>
> Some details about the issues on Sony can be found here:
>
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Berlioz-Symphonie-fantastique-Benvenuto-Damnation/dp/B0000027LY/
>
>
>
> """"
>
> In 1990, the 1968 version was issued as part of the "Great Performances"
>
> series: Hector Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique (CBS Great Performances)
>
> In 1992, the 1963 version was issued as part of the silly "Royal Edition"
>
> Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique / Overture de Benvenuto Cellini / La
>
> Damnation de Faust- Rakoczy March / Roman Carnival Overture (Royal Edition).
>
> REVIEWED HERE. It was MISLABELED as the 1968 version.
>
> In 1999, the 1963 version was issued as part of the "Bernstein Century
>
> Edition" Bernstein Century - Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique, etc.. It was
>
> MISLABELED as "FIRST RELEASE ON CD of the 1963 version."
>
> """"

Not the only example of faulty labeling by Sony.

The Bernstein Century issue SM2K 61837 of the Mahler Kindertotenlieder (with
Janet Baker, Israel Philharmonic) claims to be "First Release on CD.
It carries a date of Nov. 1, 5-6 of 1974. I believe it to be identical
to the first CD release on M2K42195. The timings are within 2-3 seconds
on all five tracks.

Does anyone one have conflicting intelligence that would suggest
these two are different takes?

[Jerry]

Thank you for the clarification on the two separate Symphonie Fantastiques
from Bernstein and the NYPhil.

This work may be (along with Scheherazade) the most needlessly duplicated
item on disc.

Consider this bit of trivia - each of the so-called "Big Five" American
orchestras may be heard doing this in commercial stereo recordings TWICE!

Bernstein/NYPhil - 1963 and 1968
Munch/Boston - 1954 and 1962
Ormandy/Philadelphia - 1960 (CBS) and 1976 (RCA)
Maazel/Cleveland - 1977 (CBS) and 1982 (Telarc)
Solti/Chicago - on London Jubilee released in 1990 and on Decca 436 839
from Salzburg. (though I don't have either of the Solti/Chicago
recordings, they appear to be from different venues).

Jerry

[Gerard]

"Jerry" wrote in message
news:119f4b90-cc05-46c5...@googlegroups.com...

This work may be (along with Scheherazade) the most needlessly duplicated
item on disc.

=============

I don't think so.
Four Seasons by Vivaldi maybe.
Or Bolero by Ravel.
Probably most symphonies by Beethoven have been recorded more often than the
Symphonie fantastique by Berlioz.
Symphonies by Tchaikovsky too.
Dvorak 9.
(And many other works.)

OTOH it depends on your definition of 'needlessly duplicated'.

[jrsnfld]

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 10:34:18 AM UTC-7, Jerry wrote:

> This work may be (along with Scheherazade) the most needlessly duplicated
> item on disc.

> Consider this bit of trivia - each of the so-called "Big Five" American
> orchestras may be heard doing this in commercial stereo recordings TWICE!

Actually, THRICE!

> Bernstein/NYPhil - 1963 and 1968

Add: Mehta/NYP

> Munch/Boston - 1954 and 1962

add: Ozawa/BSO, Pretre/BSO

> Ormandy/Philadelphia - 1960 (CBS) and 1976 (RCA)

add: Muti/Philadelphia, Eschenbach/Philadelphia (commercially available but mp3 only)

> Maazel/Cleveland - 1977 (CBS) and 1982 (Telarc)

add: Dohnanyi/Cleveland

> Solti/Chicago - on London Jubilee released in 1990 and on Decca 436 839
> from Salzburg. (though I don't have either of the Solti/Chicago
> recordings, they appear to be from different venues).

add: Barenboim/CSO, Abbado/CSO

But I would argue that none of these recordings is superfluous. In each case (with the possible exception of Maazel's Telarc recording) key solos in this wonderful virtuoso show piece is played by someone who's only recorded the work once. Thus each iteration is a unique documentation of great musicians in their prime--well worth the so-called "duplication."

--Jeff

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 6, 2014 at 12:32:55 AM UTC-10, Gerard wrote:
> Musicweb International publishes a list called "Musicweb International
> Recommends", with "favourite recordings of .. major repertoire works",
> without comments ("nomination to the list is sufficient recommendation").
>
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/recommends/home.htm
>
> Recently has been added:
>
> Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Ataulfo Argenta/Paris Conservatoire O (Decca) [RMay]
> Sir John Barbirolli/Halle O (Pye/Barbirolli Society, 1959) [MG]
> Sir Thomas Beecham/Royal PO (EMI) [AL]
> Sir Colin Davis/Royal Concertgebow O (Philips/Decca)
> [SG][JQ][SV][LW][MC][AL] [DM review]
> Sir John Eliot Gardiner/O Révolutionnaire et Romantique (Philips) [JQ]
> Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna Brugge (Zig Zag Territoires) [DC review]
> Herbert von Karajan/Berlin PO (Deutsche Grammophon, 1970s) [PCG]
> Charles Munch/Boston SO (RCA/HDTT) [RMo][JW]

> Charles Munch/Hungarian Radio & TV O (Philips) [SV]
> Paul Paray/Detroit SO (Mercury) [RMay]
> Michel Plasson/ Toulouse Capitole O (EMI) [GPJ]
> Robin Ticciati/Scottish Chamber O (Linn) [DM review]
>
> I don't know why Barbirolli and Plasson are on this list. There are no
> reviews of these 2 recordings on MusicWeb.
> (I found the recording by Plasson yesterday in a record store - I didn't
> hear it yet.)
> OTOH not many good recommendations are missing.
>
> I'ld like to add at least:
> - Bernstein (Sony)
> - Chung (DG)
>
> And maybe:
> - Markevitch (DG)

Recent Youtube upload:

Berlioz - Symphonie fantastique - Berlin / Markevitch