Toscanini Discography
Premise Checker
I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with matrix
and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of live
recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has always been
extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so important.
Old 8H
On 31 May 1998 01:03:29 GMT, Premise Checker <che...@shell.clark.net>
wrote:
At one point, twenty years ago, somebody gave me a copy of a Stanley
Sadie repertoire list, printed in the then-defunct Clyde Key-produced
Toscanini Society journal (I don't even recall the snappy name; surely
it wouldn't have been as obvious as 'The Maestro'?) Sadie, a
distinguished musicologist and editor, had compiled an extensive and
very accurate list of dates of performances, including all the NBC
symphony concerts.
I am not sure if there is a discography, on the other hand, that can
match what is on the net in websites devoted to, for example, Beecham,
Stokowski, or Walter...I surely haven't seen one. The two (or perhaps
more) editions of Robert C. Marsh's book TOSCANINI AND THE ART OF
ORCHESTRAL PERFORMANCE (exact title? I no longer have a copy) has a
listing up through the late fifties and early sixties. Robert Hupka's
beautiful book of monochrome photographs of Toscanini conducting,
largely taken at NBC Sym. rehearsals, had a discography that was
pretty good, but not with all desirable information.
I tend to rely mostly on the listings on the inside jackets of the BMG
Toscanini edition, at least for the commercial disks; I could care
less, personally, about matrix numbers and such arcana (this kind of
detail is often included on EMI References jackets and liner notes,
however, and at least some of it has been published with respect to
the BBC material. Biddulph's Toscanini set of the commercial BBC
recordings has full dates and matrix numbers, but nothing about
alternate takes.)
We definitely need something like the Victor Ledin discography in the
back of the entertaining book about the history of the S. F. Symphony,
in relation to Toscanini. I wonder if there is any attempt by a
certain lady to hold back cooperation or suppress archival material?
At any rate, c'mon Harris Goldsmith, GET BUSY!!
Yours,
Old 8H
Donald Rice
Old 8H wrote:
> On 31 May 1998 01:03:29 GMT, Premise Checker <che...@shell.clark.net>
> wrote:
> >I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with matrix
> >and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of live
> >recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has always been
> >extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so important.
> <snip>
> I am not sure if there is a discography, on the other hand, that can
> match what is on the net in websites devoted to, for example, Beecham,
> Stokowski, or Walter...I surely haven't seen one. The two (or perhaps
> more) editions of Robert C. Marsh's book TOSCANINI AND THE ART OF
> ORCHESTRAL PERFORMANCE (exact title? I no longer have a copy) has a
> listing up through the late fifties and early sixties. Robert Hupka's
> beautiful book of monochrome photographs of Toscanini conducting,
> largely taken at NBC Sym. rehearsals, had a discography that was
> pretty good, but not with all desirable information.
>
> We definitely need something like the Victor Ledin discography in the
> back of the entertaining book about the history of the S. F. Symphony,
> in relation to Toscanini. I wonder if there is any attempt by a
> certain lady to hold back cooperation or suppress archival material?
>
> At any rate, c'mon Harris Goldsmith, GET BUSY!!
>
> Yours,
> Old 8H
In addition to the Marsh book are "Conversations with Toscanini" by B.H.
Haggin and "The Toscanini Legacy" by Spike Hughes which contain extensive but
I think incomplete discographies. There was a Toscanini site mentioned here
but I can't find the url!
Don Rice
Donald Rice
Here is the link to John Wilsons Discography. Seems quite comprehensive to an
amateur like me.
Don
http://x5.dejanews.com/jump/http://home.earthlink.net/~jw3/index.html
mike gray
Premise Checker wrote:
>
> I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with matrix
> and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of live
> recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has always been
> extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so important.
Dear Premise Checker -
This isn't nearly as easy as it seems - AT's published records are just
the tip of a discographic nightmare. To do this job properly simply for
the officially recorded material requires use of the RCA Listing Notice
files at the Library of Congress. I took a look there the other day
(see my previous post on Studio 3A) and was once again astonished about
the amount of material that would need to orgranized: not only are there
the works of the standard "canon", but also the unissued recording
sessions (La mer, Beethoven 2 and Beethoven 7 some to mind, just from
the 1940s), broadcasts transferred to 78 for possible release, tapes of
commercial releases assembled from dress rehearsal and later patch
sessions, and electrically altered transfers from recording session
masters. The same applies to EMI/HMV's attempts to get AT nailed down
on records.
Then there are the pirated broadcasts ... well, it's a job for someone
who's retired. Any takers?
P.S. The best *published* AT I've seen was by Hajime Suga in the Record
Geijutsu (April 1986 thru January 1987) Makes good start, but (see
above) there's a lot more work to do.
Regards,
Mike Gray
Fi Magazine
John Wilson
>I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with matrix
>and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of live
>recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has always been
>extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so important.
I have constructed a Web site devoted to the Toscanini discography of
the CDs, the 2 Toscanini Societies LPs, and the V-Discs. the URL is:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jw3/index.html
My listings are not as extensive as you request. There are no matrix
numbers and only one listing of alternative takes (the NY Phil
Beethoven 7th). As Mike Gray indicated to compile such a list as you
suggest would require a herculean effort and almost unlimited time.
Unfortunately, I still have to work and on top of that I live on the
west coast, far from the necessary research materials.
Hope my web page will help until someone does the whole job. Please
feel free to email me with any questions.
John
Matthew B. Tepper
In article <6kqa91$3aj$2...@clarknet.clark.net>, che...@shell.clark.net
spake unto the unwashed masses:
>
>I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with
>matrix and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of
>live recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has
>always been extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so
>important.
John Wilson's discography on-line (he has given the URL in his post) is
not bad, but is missing a great number of bootleg issues from sources
other than the Arturo Toscanini Society (and its recent UK namesake).
John Hunt published a decent Toscanini bibliography some years ago
(clumsily bound with discographies for Cantelli and Giulini, as well as
six sopranos associated with Vienna!), and this had only a few obvious
errors that I could see. (I sent him a list of these, and he sent back
a gracious reply of thanks. I note this because somebody else on this
newsgroups reports having received no such thanks for a similar letter.
Perhaps I was politer?)
There is, as many people here no doubt agree, lots of work to be done.
If somebody will take up the cudgel I shall be happy to pitch in.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
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John Wilson
On Sun, 31 May 1998 15:46:57 GMT, NOS...@NOSPAM.ARG (Old 8H) wrote:
>On Sun, 31 May 1998 14:09:31 GMT, j...@earthlink.net (John Wilson)
>wrote:
>>I have constructed a Web site devoted to the Toscanini discography of
>>the CDs, the 2 Toscanini Societies LPs, and the V-Discs. the URL is:
>>http://home.earthlink.net/~jw3/index.html
>>John Wilson
>
>I saw this site earlier, and seem not to have retained a bookmark for
>it when my browser was upgraded. I am DELIGHTED that this thread came
>up, because after just examining it again (with what I seem to believe
>are quite considerable additions and extensions to what I first
>encountered), my opinion is that it is equal, and often superior, to
>those of many other conductors on the web. It must have been a
>Herculean labor! I also appreciated the explanatory articles about
>such things as the American and British AT societies, and so forth.
>
>Bravo, John!
>
>Yours,
>Old 8H
>
Many thanks for the kind words.
John
Curtis Croulet
> The two (or perhaps
> more) editions of Robert C. Marsh's book TOSCANINI AND THE ART OF
That's the exact title of the first edition. The second, available only
in paperback AFAIK, was "Toscanini and the Art of Conducting".
Brendan R. Wehrung
There is indeed a Toscanini site, as I'm sure its author will point out
when he reads this posting. It includes of a CD discography and may not
include the precise matrix numbers discussed below, but at least gives a
picture of what the average buyer can expect to obtain with a little work.
I have included it in a list of similar offerings at
http://detroit.freenet.org/~an563/conduct2.html
Brendan Wehrung
Old 8H (NOS...@NOSPAM.ARG) writes:
> On 31 May 1998 01:03:29 GMT, Premise Checker <che...@shell.clark.net>
> wrote:
>>I've never seen a really good Toscanini discography, replete with matrix
>>and take information, alternative issued takes, and issues of live
>>recordings. Can anyone direct me to Web sites? This lack has always been
>>extremely surprising to me, since Toscanini is so important.
>
> At one point, twenty years ago, somebody gave me a copy of a Stanley
> Sadie repertoire list, printed in the then-defunct Clyde Key-produced
> Toscanini Society journal (I don't even recall the snappy name; surely
> it wouldn't have been as obvious as 'The Maestro'?) Sadie, a
> distinguished musicologist and editor, had compiled an extensive and
> very accurate list of dates of performances, including all the NBC
> symphony concerts.
>
> I am not sure if there is a discography, on the other hand, that can
> match what is on the net in websites devoted to, for example, Beecham,
> Stokowski, or Walter...I surely haven't seen one. The two (or perhaps
> more) editions of Robert C. Marsh's book TOSCANINI AND THE ART OF
> ORCHESTRAL PERFORMANCE (exact title? I no longer have a copy) has a
> listing up through the late fifties and early sixties. Robert Hupka's
> beautiful book of monochrome photographs of Toscanini conducting,
> largely taken at NBC Sym. rehearsals, had a discography that was
> pretty good, but not with all desirable information.
>
> I tend to rely mostly on the listings on the inside jackets of the BMG
> Toscanini edition, at least for the commercial disks; I could care
> less, personally, about matrix numbers and such arcana (this kind of
> detail is often included on EMI References jackets and liner notes,
> however, and at least some of it has been published with respect to
> the BBC material. Biddulph's Toscanini set of the commercial BBC
> recordings has full dates and matrix numbers, but nothing about
> alternate takes.)
>