"What is the best recording of Bach's Goldberg Variations, and why?"

[gggg...@gmail.com]

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

[Raymond Hall]

On Wednesday, 20 July 2016 10:23:52 UTC+10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

I prefer Gould's later recording of this work. It is more measured, and the pace is better for these ears. You can't go wrong with Perahia or Schiff either. Both are excellent, but Gould projects more.

Ray Hall, Taree

[dk]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 5:23:52 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

Feltsman

dk

[John Thomas]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 5:23:52 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

Do you know how many times that question has been asked and answered here during the past 20 +/- years? Did you know that this site has all those questions and answers archived and available?

[Frank Lekens]

Raymond Hall schreef op 20-7-2016 04:57:

Let's see. Maybe Gould/Tipo/Weissenberg/Dong-Hyek Lim/Joao Carlos
Martins/Pedro Burmester/Peter Serkin/Daniel-Ben Pienaar/Ekaterina
Dershavina/Maria Yudina/Vladimir Feltsman/Maria Perrotta/Lori Sims/Jill
Crossley/Jeremy Denk/Andrea Bacchetti/Gould?

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/

[JohnGavin]

1. Maria Tipo
2. Anthony Newman (1st recording) Columbia LP
3. Perahia
4. Landowska (I) 1930's

[AB]

Feltsman, is a '2nd tier' pianist. heard him in his Carnegie Hall debut. awful considering all the hype, amazed that you thnk so highly of him.
Stick to Gelber:-)

AB

AB

[dk]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 6:05:40 PM UTC-7, AB wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 12:09:24 AM UTC-4, dk wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 5:23:52 PM UTC-7, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why
> >
> > Feltsman
>

> Feltsman, is a '2nd tier' pianist. heard him in his Carnegie
> Hall debut. awful considering all the hype, amazed that you

> think so highly of him.

?!? whatever he did (or not) during his CH debut has no
bearing whatsoever on any other performance. I heard him
perform the Gouldbergs a few years ago, and it was by far
the most exciting GV I have ever heard.

I judge performances, not pianists.

dk

[Tony]

On Wednesday, 20 July 2016 03:23:52 UTC+3, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

Beatrice Rana has started to play this work and will have a recording on Radio France next week

http://www.worldconcerthall.com/en/schedule/rana_plays_bachs_goldberg_variations_in_montpellier/28756/

[Frank Lekens]

Tony schreef op 21-7-2016 09:41:

Great!
How does that site work? Is it available as a stream there only at the
actual time of broadcast, or also on demand afterwards?

[HT]

Op donderdag 21 juli 2016 09:41:25 UTC+2 schreef Tony:

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

Henk

[Tony]

On Thursday, 21 July 2016 12:18:44 UTC+3, Frank Lekens wrote:
>
> Great!
> How does that site work? Is it available as a stream there only at the
> actual time of broadcast, or also on demand afterwards?
>
> --
> Frank Lekens

A few months ago I started a thread about this channel. When the time comes, just go back to the page and a link to the live stream will be there. Read the FAQ on the page if you need more info.

Most streams are one-offs, however this will be on France Musique so you should find it archived here: http://www.francemusique.fr/classique/piano

[graham]

All the concerts, not just piano, seem to be appearing at:
http://www.francemusique.fr/concerts
Graham

[AB]

he must have improved':-)...... glad you enjoyed his playing. must admit i have not heard much of his playing on recordings.

AB

[Bob Harper]

Thanks, Dan. Feltsman's been in Portland a couple of times in the last
few years, and the Haydn Sonatas he played in a recital as part of the
Portland Piano Series a year or two ago were outstanding--nothing '2nd
tier' about his playing at all.

Bob Harper

[Frank Lekens]

JohnGavin schreef op 21-7-2016 02:27:

> 2. Anthony Newman (1st recording) Columbia LP

Is that the one on harpsichord?

This one is on the piano:
https://www.amazon.com/Goldberg-Variations-Bach-Newmannthony/dp/B00OV9CGEO/ref=tmm_acd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Does anybody know if that's the same as this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Js-Bach-Variations-Anthony-Newman/dp/B00B5FD54C/ref=sr_1_4?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1469130495&sr=1-4&keywords=anthony+newman+goldberg
(Which, contrary to what Amazon suggests, does not seem to be available
on cd.)

Spotify features yet another collection, of the Goldbergs (probably the
same) with the Italian concerto & the chromatic fantasy & fugue. What a
messy discography.

[Al Eisner]

"This" is not a site, it is a newsgroup. It's true that archives are
available, although they can often be quite difficult to use. However,
just because a topic has been discussed in the past, that is no reason
why it should not be discussed again: different people may be
participating, previous participants might have changed their views,
and there might be releases unavailable at the previous time.

In short, if someone is interested in a new discussion, why not?
Of course, this being a ggggg question, it's debateable whether
anyone actually *is* interested. ;)
--
Al Eisner

[AB]

well, I must have '2nd tier ears':-)

AB

[JohnGavin]

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 3:52:06 PM UTC-4, Frank Lekens wrote:
> JohnGavin schreef op 21-7-2016 02:27:
> > 2. Anthony Newman (1st recording) Columbia LP
>
> Is that the one on harpsichord?
>

I think that Anthony Newman recorded the Goldbergs either 3 or 4 times - 2 or 3 on harpsichord and the one on piano.

The first one, on a Columbia LP was recorded in 1971, and as far as I know was never reissued on CD. I like this recording very much for its dynamism, daring and color (magnificent 7-stop Herz harpsichord).
Definitely not the only recording I would want, but it's quite a trip.

I hesitate to recommend the download on YouTube, because the compressed sound doesn't do justice to this instrument, but here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NzQUPmwjc

[Bob Harper]

Well, in this case....

Bob Harper

[dk]

> > well, I must have '2nd tier ears':-)
> >

> Well, in this case....
>
> Bob Harper

Feltsman seems to have a special affinity for
Bach, Haydn and Mozart. I also heard from him
an excellent Schumann Carnaval. He does not
seem to revel as much in Russian and later'
romantics composers' music.

dk

[Frank Lekens]

JohnGavin schreef op 22-7-2016 02:38:

Thanks, I'll have a listen.
The piano version also sounds idiosyncratic to me. On YouTube (which is
probably the same version as on Spotify, though I'm not sure: the video
looks very recent) it says "adapted for modern piano": is it just the
manner of playing that he's adapted, or does he play different notes as
well?

https://youtu.be/6Eq5WDXbJro

[max197...@gmail.com]

Sorry in advance for my "Been there done that" tone.

I've heard all the recommendations here and 100+ more, and am fatigued by the "immaculate" approach to the Goldberg's, which is the predominate mode. Feltsman and Perahia sound the same to me, playful hand-switching in the former notwithstanding, as do all the others. If I had to pick an "immaculate" performance, it would be Dinnerstein for her luxurious pianissimo (don't listen to it on youtube, the sound is too compressed.)

Tipo is my favorite, and I'm grateful to whomever first recommended it here (Was that you, JohnG?). For those who don't know it, she uses a full range of expressive devices, including prohibited "Romantic" ones.

On harpsichord, Wolfgang Glüxam, primarily for the ornamentation. It's out of print and almost impossible to find. I went to Germany to buy it, but now I see it's hosted on Rutracker.org.

-Max

(to reply by email, remove the year from my email address)

[max197...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 6:05:40 PM UTC-7, AB wrote:

I saw him play D960 in Carnegie a few years ago, and he did something remarkable in the final movement. At one of the octave interruptions, he clutched at his heart. He was conveying the thought of mortality inscribed by the fatally ill composer. It was a revelation, and many in the audience audibly gasped, including myself. Needless to say, my understanding of that piece was transformed.

[amdu...@comcast.net]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 7:23:52 PM UTC-5, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

My all-time favorite recording is this one, 30 years old now. Several appear to be available on Amazon for about $20.

http://www.orfeo-international.de/pages/news_534_e.html

[Herman]

on youtube with Causse and Maisky:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duVAAq422h0

(somebody in the comment section seems to think Glenn Gould is the composer of Bach's Goldberg Variations)

[Bob Harper]

On 8/2/16 1:37 PM, Herman wrote:
(snip)

>
> (somebody in the comment section seems to think Glenn Gould is the
> composer of Bach's Goldberg Variations)
>

And this comes as a surprise because...? :)

Bob Harper

[ljk...@aol.com]

David Schrader's (on harpsichord) is very good.

Larry Kart

[ljk...@aol.com]

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 9:13:27 AM UTC-5, ljk...@aol.com wrote:
> David Schrader's (on harpsichord) is very good.
>
> Larry Kart

A sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I2XZyWTukc

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Yes I agree that David Schrader is worth hearing. Full of inner life, inner voices brought to life.

[AB]

On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 1:38:26 PM UTC-4, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
> Yes I agree that David Schrader is worth hearing. Full of inner life, inner voices brought to life.

no doubt the harpsichord is 'authentic', but after a while the lack of variety of touch, tone, etc. renders the sound boring, no matter how skiled the musician is.

AB

[Raymond Hall]

An awful lot depends on the harpsichord and also how it is recorded, but they really can be tiring on the ear.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Herman]

On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 1:40:45 PM UTC+2, Raymond Hall wrote:


>
> An awful lot depends on the harpsichord and also how it is recorded, but they really can be tiring on the ear.
>

same for piano, or any instrument, really

[howie...@btinternet.com]

The tone of a piano seems less intense and colourful than a good harpsichord to me. And as far as I know a harpsichordist can vary touch as much as a pianist I think (I mean, different types of portato are possible on a harpsichord)

Apart from timbre, the main differences are that on a piano you can change dynamics over short phrases -- even one note -- and on a piano the notes can sustain longer.

But in a piece like the Goldberg Variations these may be a pitfall -- pianists tend to use dynamics rather than agogics to attract the listener's attention to a voice or phrase, and IMO that doesn't really serve the music. Or they tend to obscure some voices to bring out others -- again not necessarily a good idea.

[AB]

except the bassoon:-)

AB

[Gerard]

wrote in message
news:41d6a834-6b09-4754...@googlegroups.com...

==========================

How is the recent recording by Mahan Esfahani on DG?

[dk]

The boredom goes away once one starts
watching dresses and heels! ;-)

dk

[graham]

..and the long hair that constantly falls over the face.

[Terry]

Your comment reveals that you know absolutely nothing about what's involved in playing the harpsichord. On the harpsichord, it's what happens *between* the notes that provides the articulation and colour. Of course you are entitled to dislike the harpsichord and to prefer the piano, or even the steam calliope for that matter. You are entitled to be bored by the harpsichord, too, but at least get the reasons right.

[Terry]

That's true of any and every instrument, if poorly-recorded. Happily, these days there seem to be plenty of correctly-constructed harpsichords, well recorded.

20th Century harpsichord-making was awful until about 1960, with makers like Neupert and Dolmetsch using piano manufacturing principles but producing weak, wiry-sounding monstrosities. Then there was that appalling Pleyel that Landowska used. The tone of these instruments was so piss-weak that recording engineers had to shove their microphones right inside the instrument in order to capture any sound at all. Then, to compensate, they transferred the signal too loud onto the final media. All you got was the sound of wire twanging -- not the rich sound of string, soundboard and case all contributing, that you get from a proper harpsichord. So forget about Kipnis, Puyana, Landowska, Richter, Kirkpatrick, Veyron-Lacroix et al if you want to hear a true harpsichord.

Martin Skowroneck and the Boston school (Hubbard, Dowd) went back to historical models and it became a different world! Just about all current makers have followed suit.

The Goldbergs recording by Blandine Rannou (Zig Zag Territoires) is exemplary.

[Herman]

Since the seventies there have been wonderful sounding harpsichords.

It's all a matter of taste, but I prefer Bach on harpsichord. Most pianists make a mess of the music.

[dk]

While the harpsichordists make a mess of themselves?

dk

[Frank Berger]

Please explain how Arri's comment is inconsistent with you
comment about what happens between the notes.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Terry]

He's talking about touch (a pianistic concept), but harpsichord playing is all about timing.

[AB]

I play the damn thing, don't give me no lectures... that is what your comment reveals...... and it also reveals that you are rude.
your statement above 'what happens between,etc.' is standard patter (bullshit) for all instruments and music in general. I did not say I 'dislike' the h., I want to point out that extended listening can become boring. Did you get my comment straight?


AB

AB
AB

[AB]

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 2:50:06 AM UTC-4, Herman wrote:
> Since the seventies there have been wonderful sounding harpsichords.
>
> It's all a matter of taste, but I prefer Bach on harpsichord. Most pianists make a mess of the music.

Herman..... don't exaggerate, the great pianists play the music convincingly.

[AB]

dk. I expect you to have more respect for the machine.

AB

[Herman]

I wasn't exaggerating. We're talking about two different groups.

Most pianists.

Great pianists. And then I mean, great Bach pianists.

Those are very few.

[JohnGavin]

Fine - OK - good - as long as people realize you are expressing you own opinion with a finality that sounds like it is carved in stone.

What you're putting down are revival harpshichords, which is a favorite past time of the HIP harpsichord crowd. Many of them were modeled after a 3-manual very large historical Haas instrument, which was eventually owned and beautifully restored for Rafael Puyana. If you listen to this instrument (e.g. Puyana's last recording of the Bach 6 Partitas) - it sounds not at all that different from an Eric Herz revival German double manual (both with 16 foot stops).

I think HIP nerds get together in order to share talking points. The Pleyel is what it is - a modern, hybrid instrument that Poulenc, Falla, Martinu, Julian Orbon and many and others found inspiring enough to write excellent compositions for. Christopher Lewis' recent recital for Naxos, of 20th century music, recorded on a Pleyel was very favorably discussed here recently. The instrument is in fact very fine sounding. I owned one, revoiced and restored it, and enjoyed playing it very much. I attended 2 recitals by Rafael Puyana in the 60s and although the instrument is soft, it's fulness was magnificent and the ears adjusted in a very short time.

I can tell you that when Pleyels are acquired by the Harpsichord Clearing House they go very quickly, as well as other revivals.

HIPers can prefer what they prefer - but please stop being so self-righteous about your tastes. Many of us would like to send you back in an HG Wells style time machine, with no guarantee of a return trip :)

[Frank Berger]

He can speak for himself, of course, but I take his comment
to mean he finds his enjoyment of the harpsichord limited by
the instrument's inability to do what a piano can do (which
is kind of why the piano was invented, wasn't it?). It
hardly reveals any technical ignorance about the harpsichord.

[AB]

all about bullshit. ALL music is about timing,(even playing the cymbals)..... in case you did not know.... so your comments about timing is a lot of pompous nonsense. I thought we were finished with these kinds of convesations after the recent Trifonov episode.

AB

[AB]

right, by definition there are very few GREAT of anything. What do you mean 'most pianists make a mess of the music'? In what way is there a mess???

AB

[AB]

for many years I played various baroque music on the harpsichord and bassoon in a house in Brooklyn..... I found that the major problem playing with the harpsichord was the tuning situation. It is so hard to tune accurately and KEEP in tune, and therefore the wind instruments had all kinds of problems. matching the pitch. Often we ignored the pitch of the harpsichord and played for ourselves.
Did you tune by ear or did you have a machine?

AB

[Terry]

Sounds like you play the harpsichord like a piano.

[AB]

sounds like you don't know what you are talking about. you have no idea how I play either instrument (good or bad).
I admit to be at fault......why am I involved in such a useless conversation

AB

[Herman]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 1:59:09 AM UTC+2, AB wrote:

> I admit to be at fault......why am I involved in such a useless conversation
>
> AB

because you started it.

[Herman]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 1:59:09 AM UTC+2, AB wrote:

> I admit to be at fault......why am I involved in such a useless conversation
>

not sure how you got along with Jeffrey Powell / Ansermetmaniac, the guy who wanted things HIS way and otherwise got very angry.

Sadly you are starting to sound like him. sometimes.

[Gerard]

"AB" wrote in message
news:4af3b018-fe1e-421d...@googlegroups.com...

I admit to be at fault......why am I involved in such a useless conversation

======================

Because of frequenting this newsgroup.

[AB]

you are absolutely right.... addictions are very hard to cure.

AB

[AB]

Ansermaniac had serious mental problems. hope you are not developing the same
I get along with amybody who talks musical sense. I am beginning to wonder (worry) about you.
Herman, stay away from out of tune pianos :-)

AB

AB

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 2:23:52 PM UTC-10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why

The following 2002 article may be of interest:

http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/goldberg.html

[dk]

Herman needs to stay away from pianos --
period. He just doesn't have the heels! ;-)

dk

[dk]

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 11:36:24 AM UTC-7, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 2:15:58 AM UTC-4, Terry wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 4, 2016 at 9:40:45 PM UTC+10, Raymond Hall wrote:
> > > On Thursday, 4 August 2016 04:07:57 UTC+10, AB wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, August 3, 2016 at 1:38:26 PM UTC-4, howie...@btinternet.com wrote:
> > > > > Yes I agree that David Schrader is worth hearing. Full of inner life, inner voices brought to life.
> > > >
> > > > no doubt the harpsichord is 'authentic', but after a while the lack of variety of touch, tone, etc. renders the sound boring, no matter how skiled the musician is.
> > > >
> > > > AB
> > >
> > > An awful lot depends on the harpsichord and also how it is recorded, but they really can be tiring on the ear.
> > >
> > > Ray Hall, Taree
> >
> > That's true of any and every instrument, if poorly-recorded. Happily, these days there seem to be plenty of correctly-constructed harpsichords, well recorded.
> >
> > 20th Century harpsichord-making was awful until about 1960, with makers like Neupert and Dolmetsch using piano manufacturing principles but producing weak, wiry-sounding monstrosities. Then there was that appalling Pleyel that Landowska used. The tone of these instruments was so piss-weak that recording engineers had to shove their microphones right inside the instrument in order to capture any sound at all. Then, to compensate, they transferred the signal too loud onto the final media. All you got was the sound of wire twanging -- not the rich sound of string, soundboard and case all contributing, that you get from a proper harpsichord. So forget about Kipnis, Puyana, Landowska, Richter, Kirkpatrick, Veyron-Lacroix et al if you want to hear a true harpsichord.
> >
> > Martin Skowroneck and the Boston school (Hubbard, Dowd) went back to historical models and it became a different world! Just about all current makers have followed suit.
> >
> > The Goldbergs recording by Blandine Rannou (Zig Zag Territoires) is exemplary.
>
> Fine - OK - good - as long as people realize you are expressing you own opinion with a finality that sounds like it is carved in stone.

some brains can actually be that calcified ;-)

dk

[AB]

but i heard that he is 'cute' even without heels:-)

AB

[gggg...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 4:57:32 PM UTC-10, Raymond Hall wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 July 2016 10:23:52 UTC+10, gggg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-recording-of-Bachs-Goldberg-Variations-and-why
>
> I prefer Gould's later recording of this work. It is more measured, and the pace is better for these ears...

According to this:

- ...The first shows the thrill of a young man discovering something astonishing, the last is the artist (as did Bach) contemplating God.

https://www.wqxr.org/story/essential-piano-recordings

[howie...@btinternet.com]

Rubsam's is full of new ideas

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Wolfgang-Rubsam/dp/B07F1VLD6T