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Censored Catulli Carmina text

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Jaime Jean

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Jan 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/8/00
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My Jochum Catulli Carmina liner notes have an interesting feature: the text
and its translation move from "Morde me, basia me!" directly to "In te
habitant ... ", skipping some parts that I suppose some old-fashioned
censors, or a Moral Majority-sponsored initiative, want to keep us from
reading so we don't think wrongful, immoral thoughts.

Any idea of a URL where I can find the full text?

Jaime

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/8/00
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Would you consider looking in a book, or in the score of the work?
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@worldnet.att.net

Matthew B. Tepper

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Jan 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/8/00
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JHenry1975 wrote:
>
> The texts of the entire Trinofi can be found at:
>
> http://home.t-online.de/home/jo_vo/catprog.doc
>
> And yes, it's naughty. Lots of mammulae, mentulae, and peniculae!
>(Oh, my!)
>
> Joseph Henry

1. Yup, it was just what I thought it would be from the title;
2. It's spelled *Trionfi*;
3. This is only two-thirds of it; there is a third scenic cantata,
called "Trionfo di Aphrodite" (though now I may have misspelled it);
4. While it's nice to have the Latin texts alongside translations into
German, it would be nice to have English texts someplace on the Web
so that the curious could be directed there once and for all!

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"

JHenry1975

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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Mark K. Ehlert

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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Or another recording, such as at a library?

--
Mark K. Ehlert

Jaime Jean

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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Thanks. Who said classical music had to be boring?

JHenry1975 <jhenr...@aol.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
20000108220432...@ng-cp1.aol.com...

Edward A. Cowan

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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Matthew B. Tepper <o...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> 1. Yup, it was just what I thought it would be from the title;
> 2. It's spelled *Trionfi*;
> 3. This is only two-thirds of it; there is a third scenic cantata,
> called "Trionfo di Aphrodite" (though now I may have misspelled it);
> 4. While it's nice to have the Latin texts alongside translations into
> German, it would be nice to have English texts someplace on the Web
> so that the curious could be directed there once and for all!

FWIW, I have a BASF LP of "Trionfo di Afrodite" (only the "f" for "ph",
because the language of the title is Italian). This contains a leaflet
with the *complete* texts (Latin and Greek!) and a full translation into
German. (BASF 20 22454-6, (P) 1973) Ferdinand Leitner conducts the
Cologne Radio SO and Choir, with soloists Enriqueta Tarrès, Brigitte
Dürrler, Donald Grobe, Hans Günter Nöcker, and Horst R. Laubental. The
record is identified as a "von Carl Orff autorisierte Aufnahme"
(recording authorized by Carl Orff).

I have heard the first two titles in the "Trionfi" of Orff in concert:
"Carmina Burana" several times, but "Catulli carmina" only once, in
Philadelphia, with the Phila. Orch. cond. Eugene Ormandy in April, 1967.
I still have the program, which offers a partial text in Latin and
English (this was Philadelphia, remember! <g>). I think the orchestra
recorded this work around this time, but the LP has not reappeared on
CD, though an earlier Ormandy recording of "Camina Burana" has been
reissued. I recall how empty the stage seemed with only the chorus and a
few percussion instruments present as Ormandy came out to conduct. (The
program started with the American premiere (!) of Webern's Three Pieces
for Orchestra, Strauss's "Don Quixote" (Samuel Mayes, cello, Joseph de
Pasquale, viola), then the Orff, followed by Ravel's "La valse".)

-- E.A.C.

JHenry1975

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

>2. It's spelled *Trionfi*;

Oops. Typo.

>3. This is only two-thirds of it; there is a third scenic cantata,
> called "Trionfo di Aphrodite" (though now I may have misspelled it)

"Trionfo di Afrodite." I did a quick search to find the text and didn't
realize "Trionfo" wasn't included (although it should have been obvious from
the links). For anyone who's interested, however, the Catullan texts used in
it (in fact, all of Catullus, I think) can be found at:

http://www.obscure.org/obscene-latin/carmina-catulli/

"Trionfo" uses carmina 62 and 61. My Leitner recording on Acanta offers no
text at all, just a German translation. Orff did other Catullan settings not
part of the "Trionfi." Those texts are on the site, too. No translations,
though. But you can always get a Loeb for that.

Joseph Henry

HenryFogel

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Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00
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>Subject: Censored Catulli Carmina text
>From: "Jaime Jean" jj...@data.net.mx
>Date: Sat, 08 January 2000 12:35 PM EST
>Message-id: <s7eu9dp...@corp.supernews.com>

>
>My Jochum Catulli Carmina liner notes have an interesting feature: the text
>and its translation move from "Morde me, basia me!" directly to "In te
>habitant ... ", skipping some parts that I suppose some old-fashioned
>censors, or a Moral Majority-sponsored initiative, want to keep us from
>reading so we don't think wrongful, immoral thoughts.
>

I remember that old Decca LP -- and what I remember (from thirty years ago or
more) is that she was being kissed on her head, her eyes, her lips -- and then
a big white space until the text got to her knees, or something like that. I
sort of figured out what was omitted, since they seemed to be travelling, so to
speak, north to south.
Henry Fogel

pga...@my-deja.com

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Jan 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/10/00
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In article <20000108220432...@ng-cp1.aol.com>,

jhenr...@aol.com (JHenry1975) wrote:
> The texts of the entire Trinofi can be found at:
>
> http://home.t-online.de/home/jo_vo/catprog.doc
>
> And yes, it's naughty. Lots of mammulae, mentulae, and peniculae!
(Oh, my!)

Did Orff reuse the material in his later Italianate song "Peniculee,
Peniculae" ?

pgaron


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

pga...@my-deja.com

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Jan 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/10/00
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In article <20000109143928...@ng-cm1.aol.com>,
henry...@aol.com (HenryFogel) wrote:

> >Subject: Censored Catulli Carmina text
>

> I remember that old Decca LP -- and what I remember (from thirty
years ago or
> more) is that she was being kissed on her head, her eyes, her lips --
and then
> a big white space until the text got to her knees, or something like
that. I
> sort of figured out what was omitted, since they seemed to be
travelling, so to
> speak, north to south.
> Henry Fogel

Or perhaps it's east side, west side, all around the town?

Rob Kruijt

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Jan 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/10/00
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The recordings by Eugen Jochum of the Carmina and Catulli from the
sixties were coupled with the Trionfi from the fifties. It is a 2CD set
by DG, released some years ago at mid-price.

Especially the recording of the Trionfi can be recommended.

Rob Kruijt

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DavidDGable

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Jan 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/10/00
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>Who said classical music had to be boring?
>

Nobody on this newsgroup.

-david gable

Jaime Jean

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Jan 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/14/00
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The Jochum Catulli I got recently is coupled to a Werner Egk work which name
escapes me - Saint Anthony's Sermon, or something of the sort. A rather
unfortunate coupling, if you ask me.

Jaime

Rob Kruijt <robNO...@robkruijt.net.invalid> escribió en el mensaje de
noticias 05043480...@usw-ex0102-011.remarq.com...

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