Shostakovich String Quartets - Borodin SQ Recordings
Blaise Pascal
initially dismissing them as sounding too dissonant for my tastes.
Probably no surprise, but my favorite so far is No. 8 in c minor. I'm
trying to get the Borodin Quartet recording, the second one, in the
Melodyia box set, but I am having difficulty finding it. I did find,
however, the single discs from EMI, which I assume is the same
recording. Out of the 6 discs, I can get my hands on 5 of them. Some
questions:
* Was this recording a live recording (like the Emerson SQ)?
* Are there any noticable differences in sound quality between the EMI
release and the Melodyia release?
* Is the Piano Quintet included in the EMI release? The 6th disc I'm
trying to find has Quartets 7 & 8. Would it be on that CD?
* Does the EMI release include the 2 pieces for String Octet? If so,
on which disc?
BP
ptr
"Blaise Pascal" <pasc...@yahoo.com> skrev
Nice that You're warming up to DDS!
>
> * Was this recording a live recording (like the Emerson SQ)?
Most opf them was recorded in the Studio, if my memory serves me correct on
ly one or two where live.
> * Are there any noticable differences in sound quality between the EMI
> release and the Melodyia release?
The BMG/Melodiya is if not vastly better, quite an improvement!
> * Is the Piano Quintet included in the EMI release? The 6th disc I'm
> trying to find has Quartets 7 & 8. Would it be on that CD?
I dont belive so.
> * Does the EMI release include the 2 pieces for String Octet? If so,
> on which disc?
Ditto.
If You care for a recomendation I'd say that You should get the incomplete
cycle (SQ's 1 - 13) the Borodins did (With Dubinsky as first violinist)
originally recorded in Japan for HMV, now out as a very nice set on
Chandos! - These are all better (atleast to my ears) then the later versions
with Kopelman as primo. (You might want to saven the disc with SQ 14 & 15
from the EMI set..)
/ptr
Steve Molino
news:c%BMe.144354$dP1.4...@newsc.telia.net...
>
> "Blaise Pascal" <pasc...@yahoo.com> skrev
>
>> * Is the Piano Quintet included in the EMI release? The 6th disc I'm
>> trying to find has Quartets 7 & 8. Would it be on that CD?
> I dont belive so.
The Piano Quintet was definitely in the EMI box as I had it for years before
the BMG set came out. I don't remember the configuration of the CDs, but if
you have 5 of them and are only missing a 6th, then it has to be on that
one.
> If You care for a recomendation I'd say that You should get the incomplete
> cycle (SQ's 1 - 13) the Borodins did (With Dubinsky as first violinist)
> originally recorded in Japan for HMV, now out as a very nice set on
> Chandos! - These are all better (atleast to my ears) then the later
> versions with Kopelman as primo. (You might want to saven the disc with SQ
> 14 & 15 from the EMI set..)
Both sets are great, but I prefer the later set. The group seems more
inside the music and sound more intense to my ears. I like the sound of the
later set more too.
I would recommend supplementing this set with the Fitzwilliam, which is a
quite different but equally valid approach. You can get that set quite
cheap these days (I've seen it go for as little as $10 on ebay).
peter_s...@hotmail.com
the Quartets no. 7 & 8, recordings were done in Moscow between
1978-1983, Richter is the pianist in the Quintet. This is part of the
second cycle that the Borodin Quartet made of the Quartets. If pressed
for a preference between this or the earlier I'd opt for the earlier,
incomplete set which gets no further then Quartet no. 13 as the last
two had yet to appear. Anyone seriously interested in the Shostakovich
Quartets should try and hear the Beethoven Quartet's cycle available
on the Consonance label (81-3005 - 81-3009), recorded in the
1950-1960's. The Beethoven foursome gave first performances of most
of the quartets and knows the music (and era) inside out.
Peter Schenkman
Paul Ilechko
> I would recommend supplementing this set with the Fitzwilliam, which is a
> quite different but equally valid approach. You can get that set quite
> cheap these days (I've seen it go for as little as $10 on ebay).
I like the Shostakovich Quartet and St Petersburg Qt, both sets picked
up cheaply on BRO (although the latter is individual discs, and I am
missing the disc with Qt #1 and I think the Quintet & Trio)
Tom Deacon
On 8/17/05 8:07 AM, in article
1124280467.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"peter_s...@hotmail.com" <peter_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Your suggestion might be both difficult AND expensive, Peter.
ONE of the CDs in question is on sale at Amazon.com for 56 dollars. The
others are not available.
Incidentally, I have never heard of the Consonance label. What is it? A
pirate, or a legitimate enterprise. All these recordings would, of course,
have been Melodiya LPs in the beginning, I presume.
TD
Allen
Steve Molino wrote:
>
> I would recommend supplementing this set with the Fitzwilliam, which is a
> quite different but equally valid approach. You can get that set quite
> cheap these days (I've seen it go for as little as $10 on ebay).
>
>
I found a pristine used copy at a Half Price Books store, during a sale,
for $16. I was quite proud of that price, and then you destroy my pride
with your post! I love the Fitzwilliam and had nearly all on LP, and
that one solitary CD that had 3, 8 and another on it. The set, in a
compact box, freed up a little space and allowed for the disposal of a
few more LPs. After buying the Emerson promo disc containing only 8, I
wouldn't touch their set with the proverbial ten foot pole.
Allen
Steve Molino
news:BF28AD02.8173%non...@yahoo.com...
>
> Incidentally, I have never heard of the Consonance label. What is it? A
> pirate, or a legitimate enterprise. All these recordings would, of course,
> have been Melodiya LPs in the beginning, I presume.
>
I don't know what its legal status is, but the few Consonance recordings I
have bought over the years have been horrendous transfers.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:_TGMe.128106$gL1....@tornado.texas.rr.com:
I once found a promo copy of the Emerson, but then read the reviews and
sold it, still sealed, to an occasional contributor to this newsgroup (who
was very glad to get it, too).
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Hey spammers, look what happened to Vardan Kushnir. You're next!
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:1124280467.9...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I'd like to get the Beethoven Quartet's recordings of ## 14 and 15, to
supplement the REAL Borodin Quartet on Chandos in ## 1-13.
dr...@andadv.com
Shostie SQ 3 & 6. The performances, of course, are quite fine. The
sonics are horribly shrill. I have assorted other items on CD--the SQ
15 and the 6 again, both ostensibly from Czech radio broadcasts on the
Praga label; the quintet with Shostokovich on piano along with the SQ 2
on the Vanguard label--and these aren't afflicted with the same
shrillness problem. I doubt that the vinyl originals suffered from this
problem. Certainly, the mono version of #4 is clear, warm and
beautifully done on an old 2-LP MK set, with Mravinsky's Shostakovich
sym. 8 taking up three sides and the quartet taking up the fourth. It's
the performance that single-handedly convinced my ears of the
attractions of Shostakovich's chamber music. I'm determined that
someday I WILL find all the quartets on vinyl (along with their
Beethoven cycle, as well) and play these with joy until I am no longer
capable of putting needle to groove!
Of course, I also wouldn't mind finding the Borodin Qt's traversal. No
sense depriving myself of one example of great music-making just
because another is temporarily difficult to find.
;-D
Dirk
Vaneyes
After Googlin', Consonance seems to be a legit Russian label. Sounds
far-fetched, I know. heh heh
Regards
Russ and/or Martha Oppenheim
Everybody danced around answering your questions in an orderly fashion.
EMI CDC7 49266-2 Quartets 1, 9, 12
EMI CDC7 49267-2 Quartets 2, 3
EMI CDC7 49268-2 Quartets 4, 6, 11
EMI CDC7 49270-2 Quartets 5, 15
EMI CDC7 47507-2 Quartets 7, 8, PF Quintet
EMI CDC7 49269-2 Quartets 10, 13, 14
Nos. 6 and 9 are live performances.
No String Octet Op 11.
The 8th quartet probably the only work of its kind composed in the last half
of the 20th century that could be considered a repertory chestnut. My own
personal favorites are nos. 3 and 9. Still don't "get" #15.
FWIW I don't care for the PF Quintet performance at all, Richter or no
Richter, mainly because of the lumbering minuet-like tempo of the scherzo.
I have the old pre-Kopelman set of the 1st 13 quartets on the Angel-Melodia
LPs (with its hilarious translated-from-Japanese notes), and blasphemy &
treason though it be, I think the remakes for EMI with the new violinists
are just fine. I like the Emerson set as well.
- Russ (not Martha)
PS Krzystof Meyer's "Sixteenth Quartet" is an interesting stylistic
homage to Shostakovich, and set in B major, the probable key of the latter's
own unwritten 16th.
- Russ (not Martha)
Steve Molino
news:_TGMe.128106$gL1....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> I found a pristine used copy at a Half Price Books store, during a sale,
> for $16. I was quite proud of that price, and then you destroy my pride
Well, I actually saw it going for $5 at one time on Amazon but that was when
the market seemed to be flooded with them and it didn't stay there long!
dr...@andadv.com
Please help me here, as I AM confused. And I really don't mean to cause
one of those...um...skirmishes that arises from time to time.
However...
As you might correctly infer from my post above, I'm a relative novice
to the Shostakovich recordings of the Borodins (in any of their
incarnations). I think I have a single LP of them doing one or two
quartets, but it's been a lo-o-o-ng time since I've heard it. I have,
instead, mainly gone the Beethoven Qt. route for Shostakovich,
supplemented with performances on CD of the Taneyev, the Quattuor
Debussy and occasional other groups, but as I say (oddly enough) never
the Borodins.
I realize that more than one Borodin "set" exists, and that they
apparently are differentiated not only by age and label but by makeup
of the group itself, but I do not know the relative value/advantage of
each set. Apparently, the EMI/Melodiya/whatever set has been around for
quite a while, starting in the vinyl era...and the Chandos, though it
appeared more recently, is of older (live?) performances, made when the
group had different violinists. Have I got these facts straight? And if
so, could I ask why folks prefer one set over the other?
As I mentioned, I've been toying with the idea of purchasing an
integral set (or at least the 1-13...I have a 14 & 15 that I'm OK
with), and the frequent mention of the Borodin Quartet sets makes me
want to hear them. A quick review of the usual internet retail
suspects reveals that the Chandos set is available for a reasonable
sum, so I AM tempted. But if the other set is preferable, I'll wait and
cast my net a bit wider.
Sorry if this is an old and painful subject for some board participants
(I get the impression it might be)...I'd just like to get an idea of
the relative merits before I commit my cash to a particular set of
performances.
Many thanks,
Dirk
Alan Cooper
>Hi Matthew (and all):
>
>Please help me here, as I AM confused. And I really don't mean to cause
>one of those...um...skirmishes that arises from time to time.
>However...
>
>As you might correctly infer from my post above, I'm a relative novice
>to the Shostakovich recordings of the Borodins (in any of their
>incarnations). I think I have a single LP of them doing one or two
>quartets, but it's been a lo-o-o-ng time since I've heard it. I have,
>instead, mainly gone the Beethoven Qt. route for Shostakovich,
>supplemented with performances on CD of the Taneyev, the Quattuor
>Debussy and occasional other groups, but as I say (oddly enough) never
>the Borodins.
>
>I realize that more than one Borodin "set" exists, and that they
>apparently are differentiated not only by age and label but by makeup
>of the group itself, but I do not know the relative value/advantage of
>each set. Apparently, the EMI/Melodiya/whatever set has been around for
>quite a while, starting in the vinyl era...and the Chandos, though it
>appeared more recently, is of older (live?) performances, made when the
>group had different violinists. Have I got these facts straight? And if
>so, could I ask why folks prefer one set over the other?
The Borodin Quartet has been active in various configurations for 60
years, and continuity has been provided by the 'cellist Valentin
Berlinsky. The prime period for the group was 1953-74, when the
quartet comprised the violinists Rostislav Dubinsky and Yaroslav
Alexandrov and violist Dimitry Shebalin along with Berlinsky. This is
the group that figures in the Chandos historicals. What characterizes
their work is a thick, luxuriant sound and great intensity, reflecting
Dubinsky's musical personality, I think. The same qualities may be
found in his later work with the Borodin Trio. Dubinsky's memoir,
Stormy Applause, is essential reading for anyone interested in the
appalling conditions of musical life in Soviet Russia.
Dubinsky's successor as leader of the quartet was Mikhail Kopelman,
and under his leadership, the group as I hear it developed a leaner,
cleaner sound. I was never a big fan of Kopelman, but recently I
accidentally acquired the Kopelman-led Tchaikovsky set (which comes
coupled with an older Dubinsky-led recording of Souvenir de Florence),
and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.
Anyway, my point of view with regard to the Shostakovich Quartets is
that it's the older incomplete set on Chandos that you want. You
might supplement it with one of the other good, cheap sets that are
around, especially (imo) the Shostakovich Quartet set on Regis.
AC
Steve Molino
news:q2v6g11jc6j0nf3kg...@4ax.com...
> On 17 Aug 2005 10:38:55 -0700, dr...@andadv.com wrote:
>
> Dubinsky's successor as leader of the quartet was Mikhail Kopelman,
> and under his leadership, the group as I hear it developed a leaner,
That's a good description, and it's a sound that I prefer in these works.
The Fitzwilliam are more rounded and warmer sounding, but I enjoy the
"twang" of the late 70s cycle by the Borodins very much. That sharp, very
incisive sound is really a joy to hear in these works IMO.
I also like the Shostakovich SQ set, but below the Borodin and Fitzwilliam
sets.
Tom Deacon
On 8/17/05 10:50 AM, in article
1124290244.6...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "dr...@andadv.com"
<dr...@andadv.com> wrote:
> I have one Consonance CD transfer of the Beethoven Qt. doing the
> Shostie SQ 3 & 6. The performances, of course, are quite fine. The
> sonics are horribly shrill.
I usually take Peter's recommendations seriously, but here my suspicions
have proven correct.
If these recordings are worth hearing, they are worth waiting for a
legitimate transfer, perhaps even by Melodiya.
TD
peter_s...@hotmail.com
ago because of its historical importance. This after-all is the quartet
that Shostakovich had in mind when most of his works of this oeuvre
were written. The sound of the Beethoven foursome is quite different
then say the Dubinsky led Borodin Quartet in their traversal of
quartets 1-13 which certainly plays with more tonal allure. I agree
with Alan Cooper in his preference for this incomplete early set over
the later complete set led by Kopelman. The Beethoven group goes for a
leaner sound and for what ever reason the five discs don't include
the fifth quartet(?). I know nothing about the label itself other then
what appears on the back cover.... "CD manufactured in USA, Printed
in Canada" going on to state... "Manufactured under commission from
the Division of Musical Broadcasting of the
OSTANKINO State TV and Radio Company"
Peter Schenkman
dr...@andadv.com
worth waiting for a
legitimate transfer, perhaps even by Melodiya.
I think they are worth hearing, indeed, Tom. But as you point out in an
earlier post on this thread, we may be "waiting for a legitimate
transfer" for a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time. Perhaps you know someone into whose
ear you could place a well-timed hint?
;-D
Meanwhile, I'm going to keep up my hunt for the vinyl versions.
Cheers,
Dirk
Matthew B. Tepper
in news:1124379271.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Given that so many companies have bought what they were told were the
"exclusive" rights to various Soviet-era Russian recordings, the concept of
"legitimate transfer" is fluid at best.
Tom Deacon
On 8/18/05 10:20 AM, in article
1124374844....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
"peter_s...@hotmail.com" <peter_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Wonder what that is when it is at home, Peter.
This has all the earmarks of a rather shabby pirate issue.
You don't comment on the "sound" per se, which for me is somewhat telling.
The other claim it is abominable.
Surely some entity will obtain a license to release the actual tapes of
these quartets one day, so that we may all hear them in reasonable quality.
TD
Tom Deacon
On 8/18/05 11:34 AM, in article
1124379271.6...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "dr...@andadv.com"
<dr...@andadv.com> wrote:
> Tom Deacon opines: If these recordings are worth hearing, they are
> worth waiting for a
> legitimate transfer, perhaps even by Melodiya.
>
> I think they are worth hearing, indeed, Tom. But as you point out in an
> earlier post on this thread, we may be "waiting for a legitimate
> transfer" for a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time. Perhaps you know someone into whose
> ear you could place a well-timed hint?
I do, indeed, "know somebody", but I wonder if he will be as interested as
you and I are.
TD
dr...@andadv.com
shrouded in mystery for so many years. What I've heard of their
Shostakovich is superbly played. I haven't yet heard their Beethoven
quartet cycle, though I have friends and online acquaintances who own
it and give it mixed reviews (some performances are apparently
wonderful, while others are just OK). Beyond these two major cycles,
however, I've only read about one or two performances on
record--obscure 20th century works, I think.
I mean, these guys were around for decades. Where are the other
recorded works? Or if they didn't do the recording studio thing back in
Soviet Russia days, where are the tapes of live concerts? Where are the
discographies or general repertoire lists? I cannot believe that a
group so highly thought of by Shostakovich and obviously known in their
home country could be so poorly represented on LP and/or CD.
Entrepreneurs, legit or otherwise, have obviously seen the merit in
releasing lots and lots of recordings by Sofronitsky, Yudina, Kagan,
Gutman and many other artists little known or unknown to the West just
a few short years ago. Yet the Beethoven Quartet remains a virtual
enigma. Who knows...maybe beyond the Shostie/LvB specialties, they just
weren't that impressive. But how will we ever know?
Frustrating, to say the least.
Dirk
peter_s...@hotmail.com
tend to get caught up in the performance which in the case of the
Beethoven Quartets playing of the Shostakovich cycle is more then a
little riveting. In a way it's a bit like the Bruno Monsaingeon,
Richter film "The Enigma", part of it is about a great pianist and
much of it is about an entire era which through the medium of the film
you can very much witness. That's sort of the way the Beethoven
foursome's performance strikes me.
Peter Schenkman
Precious Roy
Anyone?
Precious Roy
Herman
> Anyway, my point of view with regard to the Shostakovich Quartets is
> that it's the older incomplete set on Chandos that you want. You
> might supplement it with one of the other good, cheap sets that are
> around, especially (imo) the Shostakovich Quartet set on Regis.
>
> AC
gggg...@gmail.com
> I am gradually warming up to Shostakovich's string quartets, after
> initially dismissing them as sounding too dissonant for my tastes.
> Probably no surprise, but my favorite so far is No. 8 in c minor. I'm
> trying to get the Borodin Quartet recording, the second one, in the
> Melodyia box set, but I am having difficulty finding it. I did find,
> however, the single discs from EMI, which I assume is the same
> recording. Out of the 6 discs, I can get my hands on 5 of them. Some
> questions:
>
> * Was this recording a live recording (like the Emerson SQ)?
>
> * Are there any noticable differences in sound quality between the EMI
> release and the Melodyia release?
>
> * Is the Piano Quintet included in the EMI release? The 6th disc I'm
> trying to find has Quartets 7 & 8. Would it be on that CD?
>
> * Does the EMI release include the 2 pieces for String Octet? If so,
> on which disc?
>
>
> BP
Recent Youtube upload:
Shostakovich - String quartet n°8 - Borodin SQ I
os...@rboserlaw.com
Jean Pierre
> "Blaise Pascal" <pasc...@yahoo.com> skrev
>
>
> If You care for a recomendation I'd say that You should get the incomplete
> cycle (SQ's 1 - 13) the Borodins did (With Dubinsky as first violinist)
> originally recorded in Japan for HMV, now out as a very nice set on
> Chandos! - These are all better (atleast to my ears) then the later versions
> with Kopelman as primo. (You might want to saven the disc with SQ 14 & 15
> from the EMI set..)
>
> /ptr
I agree. One could also supplement the Chandos / Borodin set, which I believe was recorded before 14 and 15 were composed, with 14 and 15 from the Beethoven Quartet set, as they are also on one CD.