Klemperer - Bruckner - Mahler
Randy Lane
Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
For Bruckner there's # 4,5,6,7,8, & 9.
For which symphonies do earlier Mono EMI recordings exist? And are any
of them clearly superior to the commonly issued stereo recordings, as
is the case (many believe at least) with the earlier mono LVB 3?
Christopher Howell
None (nor Mahler either).
There's the early Vox Bruckner 4 (possibly the fastest ever) and
Mahler 2 and some live offerings but no early EMI
Chris Howell
Dontait...@aol.com
Klemperer recorded Mahler Das Lied von der Erde for Vox in Vienna,
too.
Don Tait
Sol L. Siegel
435b-bf42-8...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
> On 22 Nov, 18:19, Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
>> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>>
>> Example :http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>>
>> For Bruckner there's # 4,5,6,7,8, & 9.
>>
>> For which symphonies do earlier Mono EMI recordings exist?
>
> None (nor Mahler either).
> There's the early Vox Bruckner 4 (possibly the fastest ever) and
> Mahler 2 and some live offerings but no early EMI
There are a number of Klemperer airchecks of Bruckner symphonies from
the '50s and '60s that have made their way to CD. Perhaps the most
important of these is the Koln RSO 8th from 1957. Not only is this one
of the most blazing performances of the work on record, but it's the
only known recorded Klemperer performance of the complete (Nowak in this
case) score, because he chose to take some cuts of his own in the finale
in his EMI studio version.
There have been a number of incarnations of this recording. I own the
3-CD Frequenz set that also contains a 1954 Koln version of the 4th and
a 1958 Berlin PO 7th, all in listenable sound. More recently, Medici
Arts has brought out the 8th on a single CD, supposedly from the WDR
master tapes.
The Medici Arts (from Arkivmusic):
The Frequenz set (from Amazon marketplace):
--
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
Lionel Tacchini
> Christopher Howell <ckhow...@ckhowell.com> wrote in news:2719cc29-48e0-
> 435b-bf42-82978278e...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On 22 Nov, 18:19, Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
> >> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>
> >> Example :http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> >> For Bruckner there's # 4,5,6,7,8, & 9.
>
> >> For which symphonies do earlier Mono EMI recordings exist?
>
> > None (nor Mahler either).
> > There's the early Vox Bruckner 4 (possibly the fastest ever) and
> > Mahler 2 and some live offerings but no early EMI
>
> There are a number of Klemperer airchecks of Bruckner symphonies from
> the '50s and '60s that have made their way to CD. Perhaps the most
> important of these is the Koln RSO 8th from 1957. Not only is this one
> of the most blazing performances of the work on record, but it's the
> only known recorded Klemperer performance of the complete (Nowak in this
> case) score, because he chose to take some cuts of his own in the finale
> in his EMI studio version.
This is a very good 8th with "normal" tempi, in addition to being
uncut.
There is also a stunning 5th from 1957.
Lionel Tacchini
Sol L. Siegel
c52f2f...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>
> Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
Randy Lane
> Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
> c52f2fdde...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
> > In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
> > Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>
> > Example :http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
>
> --
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
It is the same as the SHM-CD (Super-High-Material CD).
It uses more expensive polycarbonate coating for better optics, and
shinier silver.
Dil
> Randy Lane <randy.l...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
> c52f2fdde...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>
> > Example :http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
The bronzing doesn't tarnish....
Dil.
Richard S. Sandmeyer
"Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
> Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
> c52f2f...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
> > In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
> > Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
> >
> > Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
I wonder how HQCD sound differs from the ART processing used in the
Klemperer Legacy and GROC series. I've already got 4, 6, and 7 in ART
remasterings, but I might buy the 5th if these are available outside
Japan. I wouldn't touch the 8th or 9th as the former is badly cut and
the latter is just too slow for me.
--
Rich Sandmeyer
rich dot sand at verizon dot net
Matthew�B.�Tepper
to be typed in news:Xns9CCB9B22546...@130.133.1.4:
> Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
> c52f2f...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
>> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
>> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>>
>> Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
"WE WANT MORE MONEY."
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Randy Lane
<rich.s...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> In article <Xns9CCB9B225466Bvodnikaol...@130.133.1.4>,
> > c52f2fdde...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>
> > > Example :http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> > Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
>
> I wonder how HQCD sound differs from the ART processing used in the
> Klemperer Legacy and GROC series. I've already got 4, 6, and 7 in ART
> remasterings, but I might buy the 5th if these are available outside
> Japan. I wouldn't touch the 8th or 9th as the former is badly cut and
> the latter is just too slow for me.
>
> --
> Rich Sandmeyer
> rich dot sand at verizon dot net
The Japanese usually make their own masters.
And with more care than the standart EMI ART jobs.
Nice as they sound, I find the high end commonly cut off, much of the
problem being that they don't start with poriginal rtapes but with
prevoious masters that are already deficient. The Japanese
That's what kind of has me interested in them.
I wish they (EMI, and the other owners of legacy recordings) would do
a true remix/remaster jobs more often. The soundstage of many of these
old masterpieces could be phenomenally enhanced that way. But, I
suppose it would be very difficult to sell enough to recoup the
expense.
Steve de Mena
> Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
> c52f2f...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
>> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
>> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>>
>> Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>
> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
After Universal and some others came out with their "SHM-CD"s EMI and
Sony came out with their equivalents ("Hi Quality" and "Blu-Spec" ).
Sadly, instead of issuing new material to CD these days, Japan seems
obsessed with reissuing catalog material in this new material, and
normally without any new mastering.
Here is a blurb on SHM-CD...
"The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features
enhanced audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate
plastic. Using a process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan
discovered through the joint companies' research into LCD display
manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature improved transparency on the data side
of the disc, allowing for more accurate reading of CD data by the CD
player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs are fully compatible with
standard CD players."
Steve
Steve de Mena
> In article <Xns9CCB9B22546...@130.133.1.4>,
> "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-87aa-
>> c52f2f...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
>>> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>>>
>>> Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
>
> I wonder how HQCD sound differs from the ART processing used in the
> Klemperer Legacy and GROC series.
This doesn't involve any changes to the mastering chain. It is simply
how the CD is manufactured.
I think it's all a ripoff. A big one.
Steve
Dave Cook
> After Universal and some others came out with their "SHM-CD"s EMI and
> Sony came out with their equivalents ("Hi Quality" and "Blu-Spec" ).
Blu-Spec sounds like an outright attempt to deceive people into
thinking that it's a high-res format.
Dave Cook
Steve de Mena
Yes...
"Blu-spec CD
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Blu-spec CD describes an Audio CD manufactured by a proprietary
process introduced by Sony Music Entertainment (SME) in late 2008.[1]
Its name derives from the similar manufacturing process to that used
to create Blu-Ray Discs. Instead of a traditional infra-red laser, a
blue laser is used for recording the pits on the CD master that is
needed for disc replication. The blue laser creates more precise pits,
causing less distortion in the optical read-out process.[2]
A Blu-spec CD can be played on all CD players and does not require a
blue laser to be read.[3]"
Steve
Bob Harper
there is hype. My nose tells me this is hype.
Bob Harper
Matthew�B.�Tepper
to be typed in news:0085ba25$0$23489$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
Like "HD Radio," which really stands for "Hybrid Digital" -- but people will
generally assume it means "high definition" instead, even though it doesn't.
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:GMydnQ8ynbR3Q5TW...@giganews.com:
> Richard S. Sandmeyer wrote:
>> In article <Xns9CCB9B22546...@130.133.1.4>,
>> "Sol L. Siegel" <vod...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Randy Lane <randy...@gmail.com> wrote in news:6c879e0f-5bfe-4c07-
>>> 87aa-c52...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> In January 2010, EMI Japan will release Klemperer's EMI Bruckner and
>>>> Mahler recordings as High Quality CDs.
>>>>
>>>> Example : http://www.hmv.co.jp/en/product/detail/3712670
>>> Any idea what "High Quality CD" is supposed to mean?
>>
>> I wonder how HQCD sound differs from the ART processing used in the
>> Klemperer Legacy and GROC series.
>
> This doesn't involve any changes to the mastering chain. It is simply
> how the CD is manufactured.
>
> I think it's all a ripoff. A big one.
A RIPOFF? In the music industry? Oh, what is this world coming to?
Matthew�B.�Tepper
> Here is a blurb on SHM-CD...
>
> "The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced
> audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a
> process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the
> joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature
> improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more
> accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs
> are fully compatible with standard CD players."
Sounds like Scotty's fabled "doubletalk generator" (from numerous "Star
Trek" parodies) has had some use on the side.
Steve de Mena
> Dave Cook <dave...@nowhere.net> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:0085ba25$0$23489$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>
>> On 2009-11-23, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>
>>> After Universal and some others came out with their "SHM-CD"s EMI and
>>> Sony came out with their equivalents ("Hi Quality" and "Blu-Spec" ).
>> Blu-Spec sounds like an outright attempt to deceive people into
>> thinking that it's a high-res format.
>
> Like "HD Radio," which really stands for "Hybrid Digital" -- but people will
> generally assume it means "high definition" instead, even though it doesn't.
Actually "HD" doesn't stand for anything.
Q : WHAT DOES THE HD IN HD RADIO MEAN?
A: The �HD� in �HD Radio� is part of iBiquity Digital�s brand name for
its digital AM and FM radio technology. It does not mean either
hybrid digital or high definition, it is simply the branding language
for this new technology.
Steve
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in news:xJWdnWDV-JdvDJfW...@giganews.com:
> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Dave Cook <dave...@nowhere.net> appears to have caused the following
>> letters to be typed in news:0085ba25$0$23489$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
>>
>>> On 2009-11-23, Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> After Universal and some others came out with their "SHM-CD"s EMI and
>>>> Sony came out with their equivalents ("Hi Quality" and "Blu-Spec" ).
>>>
>>> Blu-Spec sounds like an outright attempt to deceive people into
>>> thinking that it's a high-res format.
>>
>> Like "HD Radio," which really stands for "Hybrid Digital" -- but people
>> will generally assume it means "high definition" instead, even though
>> it doesn't.
>
> Actually "HD" doesn't stand for anything.
>
> Q : WHAT DOES THE HD IN HD RADIO MEAN?
>
> A: The �HD� in �HD Radio� is part of iBiquity Digital�s brand name for
> its digital AM and FM radio technology. It does not mean either
> hybrid digital or high definition, it is simply the branding language
> for this new technology.
Wow, so it's worse than I thought!
J.Martin
> Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
>
> > Here is a blurb on SHM-CD...
>
> > "The high quality SHM-CD (Super High Material CD) format features enhanced
> > audio quality through the use of a special polycarbonate plastic. Using a
> > process developed by JVC and Universal Music Japan discovered through the
> > joint companies' research into LCD display manufacturing, SHM-CDs feature
> > improved transparency on the data side of the disc, allowing for more
> > accurate reading of CD data by the CD player laser head. SHM-CD format CDs
> > are fully compatible with standard CD players."
>
> Sounds like Scotty's fabled "doubletalk generator" (from numerous "Star
> Trek" parodies) has had some use on the side.
>
Actually, blu-spec only works if you also buy the special green felt
pen...
JM
Matthew�B.�Tepper
letters to be typed in
*cackle*
BrianK
>
> - Show quoted text -
I completely agree with the 2nd paragraph. A number of magazine
reviewers have pointed out that EMI is sitting on probably the richest
back-catalogue of classical recordings of any of the major companies
but they really do not exploit its potential to the extent that they
could. Nor do they seem to put as much effort into improving the sound
of their classic recordings, including Klemperer's, as other companies
have done. If they are not overly interested in doing this themselves
they could do the recorded classical music world a great service by
being more prepared to licence their recordings to other companies
which are. For me it is particularly frustrating as Klemperer has
always been one of my favourite conductors, and also because EMI made
some quadraphonic recordings in the 1970s that I am sure would make
good source material for SACD multichannel releases. As for the
Japanese SHM-CD process, it really is a bit of a con because the
results can only be as good as the source material that is used. If
that is not addressed, what is the point of an expensive, very high-
tech process at the END of the reproducing chain?
BrianK
Randy Lane
>
> - Show quoted text -
I should point that the Toshiba EMI crew, unlike most of their other
major-label Japanese counterparts, commonly produce their own masters
for reissues, and they are most often quite superior to the Euro/
American versions of those same recordings, even those with the "ART"
logo. Some examples like this I have (and thoroughly prefer to any of
the Euro/American counterparts) include some Furtwangler and Schuricht
Bruckner, and most notably the Karajan early-1970s Tchaikovsky 4-6.
I have yet to purchase any of the Japanese EMI HQ CDs, so I cannot
fully testify that this is the case with those issues. But I would be
very suprised if the masters used are NOT of Japanese non-ART origin.
Such is most certainly not the case with the Universal SHM-CD issues
though. I know of no case where the Japanese Universal team made any
fresh masters of their own design/specs before producing anything.
I only wish they would start earlier in the chain and completely remix
the material. A great example (not of EMI origin though) of what I
would like to see more of is the treatment DG gave to the Karajan 1977
LVB 9th when they created teh SACD master for it. Close listening
suggests they definately did exactly what I am desiring - get out the
original 16 track tape(s) and create a mixing of the tracks more
suitable for our current technology. The quad recordings from EMI you
make reference to would certainly be candidates for such a thorough
job.
I will also point out that some of the recent artist-complete-catalog
issues put together by EMI France have been totally remastered under
the direction of Rene Jacobs (Yves Nat, Marcelle Meyer, Geroges
Cziffra, and recently Ciccolini). Those boxes differ completely from
the Icon series in that respect, and are for more a blessing for
collectors. Give us more please!
Steve Emerson
<2719cc29-48e0-435b...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
Christopher Howell <ckho...@ckhowell.com> wrote:
The Vox B4, though, seemed to me much stronger than GROC'd remake on EMI.
SE.