Favorite Brahms 4th Symphony ?
DColucci
just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
Kleiber ?
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HPLeft
"DColucci" <dcol...@aol.comspam> wrote in message
news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
And thanks for not asking for the "best" Brahms 4...
Bernstein/VPO
Matt C
Alan Hayward
news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
Columbia SO / Bruno Walter or LPO / Adrian Boult.
Matthew Silverstein
[snip]
My three favorites are probably Kleiber (DG), Giulini (DG), and Toscanini
(RCA). Right behind is Fischer-Dieskau (Supraphon).
Matty
Thomas Muething
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
Toscanini/NBC 1951.
Thomas
--
"There's just two things in this world that I can't stand. It's people
who are intolerant of other people's culture ... and the Dutch!"
(Michael Caine, in "Austin Powers: Goldmember")
Steve Molino
news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
Sort of like 60 to 0 in six seconds.
Steve Molino
"Alan Hayward" <alan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b5l7ns$j06$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
Paul Goldstein
says...
>
>started with Solti....
>
>just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
>Kleiber ?
Fischer-Dieskau/CzPO for me.
Paul Goldstein
Tony Movshon
Solti/CSO, Reiner/RPO, Giulini/VPO, Abbado/BPO). But for this music it
is essential to get hold of one of Wilhelm Furtwängler's recordings.
There are 5 or 6 of these, of which my favorite is the 1943 BPO
recording. This does not seem to be available outside sets at the
moment, and the 1950 VPO recording from Salzburg that is available on
Orfeo is an acceptable substitute.
When you listen to one of these, you will understand why Karl Böhm, on
hearing of Furtwängler's death, said "Who now will conduct the finale of
Brahms' Fourth Symphony?".
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com:
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
Toscanini/BBCSO (1935)
Furtwängler/BPO (1948)
De Sabata/BPO (1939)
Koussevitzky/BSO (1938)
Just for starters.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
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Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:b5l86...@drn.newsguy.com:
CD issue of this treasure?
Tony Movshon
>>Fischer-Dieskau/CzPO for me.
>
> CD issue of this treasure?
Did exist on Supraphon. Long OOP, I suspect.
Although it's fascinating because of who it is, I can't say that I find
it to be that all-fired wonderful.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Allen & Linda Tyler
leiber. wrote:
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
My favorite, Walter/NYPO, about 1952, mono, has never made it to CD in
the US--perhaps some day. In the absense of that one, I would choose
Walter/CSO or Kleiber.
Allen Tyler
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Adrian Hunter
"Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E7E2935...@nyu.edu...
And I will plug the recommendation I always make, of Böhm's VPO account,
which is probably OOP. The horns come out well which is IMO always important
in Brahms.
Adrian
Simon Roberts
>
>just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
>Kleiber ?
Maybe, but I find it a bit cool (and I don't think the first movement's fast
enough for his rather lean approach) and rather thinly recorded. You could
always try the live BPO Celibidache on M&A and Tahra, which finds him in
Furtwaenglerish mode. Or just get Furtwaengler as per Tony's recommendation.
I'm also rather keen on Stokowski's fast, rubato-ridden stereo recording,
Fischer-Dieskau, Munch, Giulini/DG (my favorite slow performance), and a few
others.
Simon
Paul Goldstein
says...
>
>Paul Goldstein <pgol...@newsguy.com> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:b5l86...@drn.newsguy.com:
>
>> In article <20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
>> dcol...@aol.comspam says...
>>>
>>>started with Solti....
>>>
>>>just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>>>
>>>Kleiber ?
>>
>> Fischer-Dieskau/CzPO for me.
>
>CD issue of this treasure?
Yes, by Supraphon, may no longer be in print.
Paul Goldstein
Samir Golescu
On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Tony Movshon wrote:
> Did exist on Supraphon. Long OOP, I suspect.
>
> Although it's fascinating because of who it is, I can't say that I find
> it to be that all-fired wonderful.
I had it on an Italian LP -- one of those "Sold-In-Edicola" series, very
cheap. No offense to Mr Goldstein, but it sounded rather ordinary to me --
even if, agreed, for a singer that was competent conducting. . . ( :
regards,
SG
Your Pal Brian
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
>
Toscanini (RCA) and Furtwangler (M&A 4941) have been mentioned, so I'll
be different and say Munch.
Brian
Matthew Silverstein
> Furtwängler/BPO (1948)
Is this the EMI recording? If so, it seems somewhat flat compared to the
sizzling live 1943 recording on M&A.
Matty
JRsnfld
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ? >>
There's at least one "live" Kleiber/VPO out there that's quite good. Solti is
very tough to beat. You started well.
In addition to Furtwangler, try Mravinsky and Schuricht.
--Jeff
Samir Golescu
On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Tony Movshon wrote:
Gosh, so well put -- what's left to me to say? I do have a number of other
recordings I like -- notably, among them, de Sabata, Mengelberg and
Klemperer -- but Furtwangler's 1943 recording, in fair sound (old mono
tape sound, slightly "dusty"), is simply hors concours to me. I also like
the 1950 Vienna version mentioned above, which is very lyrical (the
beginning is even slower than the BPO versions which are pretty slow in
their own right) and somewhat better recorded -- the Orfeo edition of it
offers a remarkably good mono sound. The 1943 recording? There's no way
one could ever match the evocativeness of that beginning, the richness of
colors in the strings-saturated Forte moments in the slow movement, or the
"rush toward abyss", Kleist-like feeling of the fourth movement. One of
those Furtwangler recordings which show best what was unique and
unsubstitutable in this conductor's art. Brahms, the Fourth Symphony will
never be the same to me after having heard that version.
regards,
SG
Heck51
"started with Solti...."
I'd like to hear that one.
my favorites are two:
Toscanini/NBC - 12/51 - AT collection - one of the Maestro's greatest
recordings
Reiner/RoyalPO - 10/62 - not my favorite orchestra, but Reiner gets
them cranked up but good. by the finale, it is really something.
Brian Park
favorites. Those who think Reiner was always a cold and stiff interpreter
should listen to the second movement of this recording. FWIW, Reiner
personally considered this to be one of his best recordings.
Brian Park
"DColucci" <dcol...@aol.comspam> wrote in message
news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
Curtis Croulet
recordings, with more warmth and space than usually encountered from this
source. AT with the BBC in 1935 (EMI) probably gives a better idea of the
conductor that was so widely admired before WWII, but I think this is long OP.
Others that have given particular pleasure: Walter Columbia Sym and NY Phil
(1951); Jochum's mono with the BPO on DG, interesting for its non-disruptive
flexibility; and Klemperer's EMI, although it's marred by some gratuitous
Luftpausen in the scherzo. I like Blomstedt as a conductor, and I heard him do
it live with the Gewandhaus, but his Decca recording suffers from poor sound,
IMHO. Others that have left fond memories in the ear, but which I haven't heard
in decades, are Leinsdorf BSO (RCA) and Giulini CSO (EMI).
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
David Wake
I'm with MBT: I prefer the recording from the EMI set (presuming
that's what he's recommending).
David
TansalQ
recommendation, I'd like to mention the one I go back to most often, and
that no one has yet mentioned: Harnoncourt. The third movement can sound
rather frivolous a lot of the time, or on the other end it can sound
decidedly staid, but Harnoncourt gives it tremendous thrust and weight.
Overall, it's probably my favorite modern Fourth. But Samir and others are
correct when they say that it's difficult to hear the Fourth the same way
again after listening to Furtwangler's wartime performance.
Tansal
Matthew Silverstein
> Jochum's mono with the BPO on DG, interesting for its non-disruptive
> flexibility; [snip]
Excellent description. I listened to this again last night and was very
impressed.
Matty
Michael Lehrman
news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
>
Also, Sanderling/Dresden. The first movement is a little stiff, but things
get better and better as it goes, and the final is so beautiful that the end
comes almost as a disappointing surprise.
ML
Ramon Khalona
I will take nothing away from Furtwaengler's Brahms 4th (they are all
great), but I have found De Sabata's, with the BPO (DG/Pearl) even
better, especially in the last movement, where he has a masterful
command of the orchestral line, where Furtwaengler can sound very
exciting, but a little sloppy.
I am fond of Carlos Kleiber's 4th, but the live recording with the VPO
(Golden Melodram), not the DG studio recording, which I find too
clinical. The finale in the live recording is very exciting, and even
faster than Furtwaengler's, if memory serves.
As for the beginning of the symphony, no one finds more magic (IMO) in
the first bars than Walter in his Columbia Symphony recording. The
orchestra is not ideal by any means, but the way the beginning
emerges, wonderfully lyrical and yet not sentimental at all, I find
very special.
RK
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:9nel4xb...@Turing.Stanford.EDU:
Yes, I'm recommending 24 October 1948, contained in EMI ZDHC 65513. It's one
of the Furtwängler recordings I imprinted on back in the 1970s.
Diaz Philipp
Hearing Kleiber with Berlin Philharmonic was quite fascinating. But
from that performance doesn't exist a recording. Also Rattle tried
something there (also with BPO), but also no recording (yet). So in
addition I would like to recommend Hermann Abendroth (with RSO
Leipzig), who directs a very passionate and detailed performance.
Apart from the already mentioned Kleiber, Solti, Schuricht and Szell.
Kai-Uwe
Samir Golescu
David Wake wrote:
> >> Is this the EMI recording? If so, it seems somewhat flat compared to the
> >> sizzling live 1943 recording on M&A.
> >>
> >
> > I'm with MBT: I prefer the recording from the EMI set (presuming
> > that's what he's recommending).
From the same motives (a.k.a. being from 1948 and not from 1943) or
because you just like it better? I personally can think of no reason I'd
like the 1948 one better, except that the recording is slightly better,
with bigger dynamic range. That can count, of course.
regards,
SG
Samir Golescu
On 24 Mar 2003, Ramon Khalona wrote:
> [...] De Sabata's, with the BPO (DG/Pearl). . . <
Is the Pearl a notable improvement over the DG (or the opposite)? I only
have the DG.
regards,
SG
Barry Zukerman
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2003, Tony Movshon wrote:
>
> > You will get lots of sound recommendations for modern recordings (mine:
> > Solti/CSO, Reiner/RPO, Giulini/VPO, Abbado/BPO). But for this music it
> > There are 5 or 6 of these, of which my favorite is the 1943 BPO
> > recording. This does not seem to be available outside sets at the
> > moment, and the 1950 VPO recording from Salzburg that is available on
> > Orfeo is an acceptable substitute.
> >
> > hearing of Furtw ngler's death, said "Who now will conduct the finale o
> f
> > Brahms' Fourth Symphony?".
>
Another vote for the wartime Furtwangler. And I agree that no other
conductor nails the finale like he did. Actually, I may like the
finale he conducted on the Great Conductors video even more than the
wartime performance.
Also, while it's not out on record, I saw Sawallisch and the
Philadelphia Orchestra perform an absolutely dazzling 4th. It was
probably the best Sawallisch conducted performance I've ever been
present for (among what must be upwards of 50 concerts I've seen him
conduct over the past decade.
Barry
Chuck Klaus
choices?
The Igor Markevitch-directed Brahms Fourth with the Orchestre
Lamoureux Paris. (My LP copy is Heliodore 2548217 - Is there a
currently available CD?) Tremendous grasp of the final movement, which
seems to be where things most often fall apart for others. I'm also
fond of the Mengelberg/Concertgebouw waxing, now available as a fine
sounding CD transfer from Naxos. And, if one is short of time, the
Paul Paray/Detroit Mercury recording (Mine is unfortunately the Wing
issue, SRW18003) is a compact, powerful experience.
Samir Golescu
On 24 Mar 2003, Barry Zukerman wrote:
> Another vote for the wartime Furtwangler. And I agree that no other
> conductor nails the finale like he did. Actually, I may like the
> finale he conducted on the Great Conductors video even more than the
> wartime performance.
I was also astonished, even audio-only, by that excerpt. But how can one
like that one better, when there are only a couple of minutes of music out
of that one? Or is there an audio recording of that version I've never
heard about?
regards,
SG
Lehobe
Barry Zukerman
Not that I'm aware of. I should have been more specific. What I meant
was that I like that portion (I think it's more than a couple minutes
but it's been a while since I've put the video on) more than that same
portion of the finale from the wartime performance. Wouldn't it be
great to have that entire performance though.
Barry
JRsnfld
Might a first timer to this service offer up a few fave Brahms 4
choices?
The Igor Markevitch-directed Brahms Fourth with the Orchestre
Lamoureux Paris. (My LP copy is Heliodore 2548217 - Is there a
currently available CD?) Tremendous grasp of the final movement, which
seems to be where things most often fall apart for others.
>>
I recently purchased this recording on a DG lp. Very good last movement. Very
good overall, in fact. The brass have alot of power in that opening of the
fourth movement, don't they?! Maybe a bit brutal.
Markevitch's Brahms 1 with the Symphony of the Air is another recording that
needs to be reissued.
--Jeff
Ward Hardman
: started with Solti....
: just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
: Kleiber ?
I'm not about to go searching through a dozen or more High Fidelity
"Records in Review" annuals, but I recall their reviewer being
greatly impressed by a Brahms #4 conducted by Otto Gerdes (with BPO?)
on DGG, sometime in the late 60s-early 70s. I never heard the LP
myself (not on the market long, since Gerdes was usually a record
producer, rather than a conductor, despite his "Tannhaeuser"), but
wonder if any group members have heard it and whether their opinion
was as positive as HF's reviewer.
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just simple
competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken
Stephen W. Worth
<har...@sciences.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> Gerdes was usually a record producer, rather than a conductor
He was chorus master on quite a few DGG recordings.
See ya
Steve
--
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Owen Hartnett
<leh...@aol.com> wrote:
> Walter, Columbia Symphony, tied with Toscanini, NBC Symphony. Les
Sorry to buck the trend here, but I like Carlos Kleiber.
-Owen
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:b5o8dd$mof$1...@gondor.sdsu.edu:
> I'm not about to go searching through a dozen or more High Fidelity
> "Records in Review" annuals, but I recall their reviewer being greatly
> impressed by a Brahms #4 conducted by Otto Gerdes (with BPO?) on DGG,
> sometime in the late 60s-early 70s. I never heard the LP myself (not on
> the market long, since Gerdes was usually a record producer, rather than
> a conductor, despite his "Tannhaeuser"), but wonder if any group members
> have heard it and whether their opinion was as positive as HF's reviewer.
This may or may not help, but I strongly disliked his _Tannhäuser_.
John Wilson
My favorites are besides the previously mentioned Toscanini '51 and
Furtwangler '43 a stunning Carl Schuricht performance with the
Bavarian Radio Orchestra.
John
Matthew Silverstein
> Sorry to buck the trend here, but I like Carlos Kleiber.
Me too. After sampling all 24 of my recordings over the past few days, Kleiber
still comes out on top--especially in the first movement coda, perhaps my
favorite moment in any Brahms symphony. Other favorites include Giulini (DG),
Toscanini (RCA), Fischer-Dieskau (Supraphon), Furtwangler (M&A, 1943), and
Jochum (DG--a pleasant surprise). Solti, Bernstein (Sony), Levine (DG), and
Abbado are good, as are Mackerras and (surprisingly) Norrington in the HIP
department. Klemperer's first movement is uneventful, but his finale is
superb. Szell is too slow and stodgy but somehow still manages to impress me.
Celibidache (DG), D'Avalos, Mengelberg, Sanderling (RCA), van Beinum, Wand,
and both Walter recordings are all disappointing.
Matty
Ramon Khalona
Tony Movshon
> Sorry to buck the trend here, but I like Carlos Kleiber.
Me, too. Just not in Brahms 4 ...
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Tony Movshon
Richard Sauer
Joseph Keilberth/Hamburg (Teldec WPCS-6050) The Andante Moderato is
beautifully shaped. Like Furtwangler, Keilberth takes the iv movement at a
fast clip.
R.Sauer
notrump15-17
the foot-dragging so common to many performances of this work. The Reiner
is marred by an uncharacteristically slow 3rd movement; otherwise, it is on
par with vB.
"Steve Molino" <s_mo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yBpfa.181267$b8.40...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> van Beinum/CGW or Reiner/RPO are my favorites. Nice energy and good
sound.
>
>
> "Alan Hayward" <alan_h...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b5l7ns$j06$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
> > "DColucci" <dcol...@aol.comspam> wrote in message
> > news:20030323153631...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> > >
> > > just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
> > >
> > > Kleiber ?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
notrump15-17
"Matthew Silverstein" <msil...@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:UUQfa.2395$XR3....@news.itd.umich.edu...
Praetorius
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
What about the Kertesz /VPO on Decca (currently oop, at least in
the U.S.) I consider that Fourth to be among the best I've heard.
Interpretation aside, the sound of the Vienna strings and horns
(the latter particularly in the second movement) is remarkable,
and Kertesz showed himself to be a potentially "great" conductor.
Sorry, but the Fischer-Dieskau/CzPO makes me sea-sick, and
I never understood the esteem with which it is held by many.
De gustibus.
I have the Markevich/Lamoureux. Unfortunately the wide-vibrato
horns in the exposed passages (e.g., opening of the second
movement) border on party-record material, but I otherwise
agree with the comments here.
Frank Decolvenaere
To reply by e-mail, replace NMBR with 1612.
"You are no bigger than
the things that annoy you."
Jerry Bundsen
Bruce Hodges
[snip]
> As for the beginning of the symphony, no one finds more magic (IMO) in
> the first bars than Walter in his Columbia Symphony recording. The
> orchestra is not ideal by any means, but the way the beginning
> emerges, wonderfully lyrical and yet not sentimental at all, I find
> very special.
>
> RK
This is one of my favorite Walter recordings, as well. And totally in
agreement about the orchestra -- not the last word in ensemble
"togetherness" but it doesn't matter. The gentleness in the first
movement, and Walter's glowing intensity...I love it.
--Bruce
Matthew Silverstein
> Re van Beinum: Please explain why this disappoints you.
Compared to my favorite recordings, it seems relatively lightweight,
undramatic, and unexciting. I don't think it's bad--it's just not what I want
in this music. (I did enjoy van Beinum's slow movement, if I remember
correctly.)
Matty
Matthew Silverstein
> This is one of my favorite Walter recordings, as well. And totally in
> agreement about the orchestra -- not the last word in ensemble
> "togetherness" but it doesn't matter. The gentleness in the first
> movement, and Walter's glowing intensity...I love it.
Perhaps that's why I was disappointed by this recording--the first movement
does not strike me as gentle (though of course it has gentle moments).
Matty
Samir Golescu
On 24 Mar 2003, Ramon Khalona wrote:
> > > [...] De Sabata's, with the BPO (DG/Pearl). . . <
> >
> > Is the Pearl a notable improvement over the DG (or the opposite)? I only
> > have the DG.
>
> I don't know. I only have the DG also.
Then who's got the Pearl? Somebody's gotta have gotten the Pearl! ( :
regards,
SG
Tony Movshon
> Then who's got the Pearl? Somebody's gotta have gotten the Pearl! ( :
Not I. Perhaps absolutely everyone has the DG.
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Edward Brisboy
> Kleiber's is pretty good but Reiner/RPO on Chesky is definitely one of my
> favorites. Those who think Reiner was always a cold and stiff interpreter
> should listen to the second movement of this recording. FWIW, Reiner
> personally considered this to be one of his best recordings.
>
> Brian Park
I'd also recommend Reiner, not usually one of my favorites. One other
worthy not yet mentioned is Busch, despite the second-rate orchestra.
Ed
Simon Roberts
>
>Samir Golescu wrote:
>> Then who's got the Pearl? Somebody's gotta have gotten the Pearl! ( :
>
>Not I. Perhaps absolutely everyone has the DG.
I have neither....
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
to be typed in news:3E80A446...@nyu.edu:
> Samir Golescu wrote:
>> Then who's got the Pearl? Somebody's gotta have gotten the Pearl! ( :
>
> Not I. Perhaps absolutely everyone has the DG.
I too have only the DGG issue. Never bought the Pearl.
I have this theory (which is mine, and which belongs to me, a-hem) that
there has been a massive change in the buying habits of classical music
collectors. (I mean collectors, who actually care about what they buy, not
the go-alongs who buy bestsellers promoted on NPR, or the stooges who go
for the krossover krap because they've been persuaded it's "culture lite.")
And that theory is that we used to prefer buying historical issues that
were released by the original labels or their successors-in-interest; then,
as time went on and the "majors" betrayed us over and over and over and
over (whether by failing to issue things, failing to keep them in print, or
just botching the job technically or artistically), we shifted to those who
could instead supply us with what we actually want.
Thus, whereas my hard-earned cash might once have gone to Sony, BMG, EMI,
Warner, or UniPolyWhatsit, it now goes to Pavilion (Pearl), Koch, Pearl,
and so on.
The De Sabata Brahms 4th was issued by DGG back when Shikker-gram was still
responsive to our needs on not hung up on phony tenors. So we all bought
it, and apparently few of us felt we needed to replace it with the Pearl.
And all brontosauruses are thin at one end, much much thicker in the
middle, and then thin again at the far end.
TransfrGuy
>I'm not about to go searching through a dozen or more High Fidelity
>"Records in Review" annuals, but I recall their reviewer being
>greatly impressed by a Brahms #4 conducted by Otto Gerdes (with BPO?)
>on DGG, sometime in the late 60s-early 70s. I never heard the LP
>myself (not on the market long, since Gerdes was usually a record
>producer, rather than a conductor, despite his "Tannhaeuser"), but
>wonder if any group members have heard it and whether their opinion
>was as positive as HF's reviewer.
I haven't heard it in awhile, but I recall being favorably impressed with this
version. I later found out that Gerdes had been a conducting pupil of Hermann
Abendroth, and when I came to transfer HA's 1927 LSO Brahms 4th, I was struck
by how much Gerdes' version sounded like it.
Mark Obert-Thorn
Tony Movshon
Marc Perman
"Tony Movshon" <mov...@nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:3E80A446...@nyu.edu...
> Samir Golescu wrote:
> > Then who's got the Pearl? Somebody's gotta have gotten the
Pearl! ( :
>
> Not I. Perhaps absolutely everyone has the DG.
I have the Pearl. It's ever-so-slightly better sounding than the
DG.
Marc Perman
Paul Kintzele
Matty,
Are you familiar with the Dorati/LSO/MNSO set on Mercury? I
impulse-bought this set yesterday, and listened to 1 and 3/i today--and
all I can say is that these are astonishing performances. I can
actually hear the contrabassoon in Sym. 1!--and it really changes the
"color" of the music, making it sound much more modern and
forward-looking. Tempi are tight and fast, and the LSO is
extraordinary. In fact, I think that just about everything I've heard
from the LSO circa 1960 is fantastic--the Monteux Dvorak 7, Pierino
Gamba's Rossini overtures, Maag's Mendelssohn 3.
In any event, I haven't listened to the Dorati/LSO/Mercury Brahms 4, but
based on what I've heard so far, this is another cycle for your want
list. Remarkably close and detailed recordings. How did they do that
with just a couple of microphones?
Paul
John Wilson
wrote:
Mine's one Preludio PHC-1124. It says it's a 1962 recording.
John
Tony Movshon
Matthew Silverstein
> In any event, I haven't listened to the Dorati/LSO/Mercury Brahms 4, but
> based on what I've heard so far, this is another cycle for your want
> list.
I've added it! Thanks for the recommendation.
Matty
Sorach Chanthongkaew
Klemperer & New Philharmonia - beautiful structure, 1st movement is a noble
tragedy. Conducted in lieu of his wife's death from cancer.
--
Sorach Chanthongkaew
Matthew Silverstein
> Klemperer & New Philharmonia - beautiful structure, 1st movement is a noble
> tragedy. Conducted in lieu of his wife's death from cancer.
I think you mean something other than "in lieu of" here. Perhaps "in the
shadow of" or "in the aftermath of" . . .
Matty
Simon Roberts
>
>
>In any event, I haven't listened to the Dorati/LSO/Mercury Brahms 4, but
>based on what I've heard so far, this is another cycle for your want
>list. Remarkably close and detailed recordings. How did they do that
>with just a couple of microphones?
I also wonder how, with such a set-up, they made such potentially noisy
instruments as timpani inaudible in some - but only some - of the symphonies....
Simon (who likes the performances quite a lot)
Simon Roberts
Tony Movshon
> In article <3E81222C...@english.upenn.edu>, Paul says...
>>
>>In any event, I haven't listened to the Dorati/LSO/Mercury Brahms 4, but
>>based on what I've heard so far, this is another cycle for your want
>>list. Remarkably close and detailed recordings. How did they do that
>>with just a couple of microphones?
>
> I also wonder how, with such a set-up, they made such potentially noisy
If you set the microphones so that they are under the conductor's
armpits, you can reproduce Mercury "Living Presence" sound quite nicely,
with very close and detailed perspectives on the strings, and
progressively less detail on the more remote instruments (what Mercury
actually did is not as different from this as you might think).
Tony Movshon
mov...@nyu.edu
Curtis Croulet
His andante is much too slow.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33° 27' 59"N, 117° 05' 53"W
Mark K. Ehlert
I heard this evening on MPR a perforance by Dorati/Minneapolis Symphony
of Tchaikovsky's "Marche Slav". Was Mercury involved with that
recording? It sounded awfully small scale.
--
Mark K. Ehlert
To reply via e-mail, X = 3
Paulo Braga
with the BPO.
I have and cherish the LP (139 423, coupled with the
Meistersinger ouverture) and consider his one of best 4ths ever.
The back cover confirms that he studied with Abendroth and also
with Knappertsbusch; also that he conducted in many of the main
musical centers in Europe before being hired by DG as a record
producer.
A curious fact such a distinguished conductor having so short a
recording career despite working to a big label.
Paulo J.P-Braga
Rio de Janeiro
Samir Golescu
On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Paulo Braga wrote:
> Was pleased to know about the interest on Gerdes' Brahms 4th
> with the BPO.
>
> I have and cherish the LP (139 423, coupled with the
> Meistersinger ouverture) and consider his one of best 4ths ever.
>
> The back cover confirms that he studied with Abendroth and also
> with Knappertsbusch; also that he conducted in many of the main
> musical centers in Europe before being hired by DG as a record
> producer.
>
> A curious fact such a distinguished conductor having so short a
> recording career despite working to a big label.
>
> Paulo J.P-Braga
> Rio de Janeiro
Never heard it (of). What makes it special and worthy of being pursued, if
anything?
regards,
SG
Thomas Baker
some wonderful Berlin playing in the Andante especially. But the great
prize is the Meistersinger Overture -- a cracking performance, the
best I've ever heard, and I've heard quite a few!
Plus, it has a gorgeous landscape painting on the cover, one of those
old LPs that makes you miss the larger size the designers once had to
work with.
Cheers,
Tom Baker
Samir Golescu <gol...@uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.31.03032...@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>...
gggg...@gmail.com
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
>
>
>
>
> <p>
> <a href="http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/"> Antique & Classic Camera
> Site</a></p>
This 2012 article comparing various recordings may be of interest:
https://topear.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/comprehensive-review-brahms-4th-symphony/
Terry
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
>
wenz...@gmail.com
> started with Solti....
>
> just ordered SERGIU CELIBIDACHE/MUPO
>
> Kleiber ?
>
>
>
>
Dohnanyi/Philharmonia
Oscar
>
> Dohnanyi/Philharmonia
Seriously??
Bob Harper
reviews. So I'll see how his performance goes. But Furtwängler is still
the touchstone. I remember reading somewhere that when F died, Karl Böhm
wondered who would now conduct the Finale of the 4th.
Bob Harper
Oscar
>
> Just purchassed D's Cleveland set on the strength of enthusiastic Amazon
> reviews. So I'll see how his performance goes.
lgan...@gmail.com
Mark
Phlmaestro75
wenz...@gmail.com
Russ (not Martha)
> Another former Cleveland conductor has recorded a superb Brahms 4 - not sure you can find it anywhere these days, though. I'm talking about Erich Leinsdorf, whose entire Brahms Symphony cycle with the Boston Symphony from the mid 1960s on RCA is first-rate. The Fourth is, like the others, beautifully played, but I wasn't prepared for the intensity of the finale. This really needs to be more easily available. I suspect you can find it in Japan (can't you find any recording in Japan?).
>
> Mark
TWCL-3013 Brahms Sym #1 + Mozart Sym #39
TWCL-4013 Brahms Syms #2, 3
TWCL-4003 Brahms Sym 4 + Mozart Sym #36
Agree completely regarding the excellence of EL's Brahms 4. I particularly like the way he resists the temptation to rush the coda of the finale off its feet.
At one time I had the RCA open reel of the Leinsdorf Brahms symphony cycle and was able to remaster Syms 3 & 4 to CD. Nunmber 1 had an irreparable dropout in the 1st movt so I couldn't do anything with it.
Other 4ths I like are the Toscanini-ish Levine/CSO, Beinum/Concertgebouw, and Fischer-Dieskau/CzPO (of which latter I have never seen a CD copy. I converted a Quintessence cassette to CD).
Russ (not Martha)
Bob Harper
(snip)
> Agree completely regarding the excellence of EL's Brahms 4. I
> particularly like the way he resists the temptation to rush the coda
> of the finale off its feet.
does *not* accelerate at the end of the Finale I feel let down. IMO the
music simply demands it, and no one does it like Furtwängler.
Bob Harper
> At one time I had the RCA open reel of the Leinsdorf Brahms symphony
Grobs
>The Leinsdorf / BSO Brahms symphony cycle is/was available in the Tower >Records Japan special reissue series, which I believe you can obtain now only >thru 3rd-party buying-forwarding services.
>
> TWCL-3013 Brahms Sym #1 + Mozart Sym #39
> TWCL-4013 Brahms Syms #2, 3
> TWCL-4003 Brahms Sym 4 + Mozart Sym #36
>
However, I recently listened to this in a personal transversal of all of my Brahms 1sts. I was surprised at how awful I found Leinsdorf's reading. He absolutely bulldozed his way through the piece. I know some like the bulldozer way, but this was ridiculous and very unmusical.
Dil.
Willem Orange
Frank Berger
Planeta-Agostini, of which I scored a used copy somewhere.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Kerrison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Msij2tCUM
Tony
> Apropos the reference elsewhere here to "Stokowski and Tempo," is there anything objectionable about the 92-year-old's very last Brahms 4, recorded live in the Royal Albert Hall and issued on 'BBC Legends'? ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Msij2tCUM
Frank Berger
later on RCA 62606 coupled with Mahler 2.
Kerrison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-UJFjD9QIY
Gerard
news:ec1100fa-8cef-478e...@googlegroups.com...
That seems to be to same recording as this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Merry-Fantasia-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Symphony/dp/B000025U40/
(without the piece by Novacek)
Kerrison
> > >> Apropos the reference elsewhere here to "Stokowski and Tempo," is there
> > >> anything objectionable about the 92-year-old's very last Brahms 4,
> > >> recorded live in the Royal Albert Hall and issued on 'BBC Legends'? ...
> > >>
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Msij2tCUM
> > >
> > > wow that was brilliant! Who cares about objectionable when it's that
> > > thrilling? I'll have to get the BBC Legends disc now as the rest of the
> > > symphony isn't on YT.
> > >
> >
> > There's a studio recording with the same orchestra from about a month
> > later on RCA 62606 coupled with Mahler 2.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > http://www.avast.com
>
> The later Brahms 4 studio recording is good but the 'live' performance is
> much better. I guess Stokey wasn't the only conductor who underwent an
> adrenalin rush with a big Royal Albert Hall audience behind him.
> Incidentally, the concert started with Klemperer's "Merry Waltz," included
> by Leopold as a tribute to Otto who had died the previous year ...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-UJFjD9QIY
>
> ==================
>
> That seems to be to same recording as this one:
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Merry-Fantasia-Rapsodie-Espagnole-Symphony/dp/B000025U40/
>
> (without the piece by Novacek)
P
> TWCL-3013 Brahms Sym #1 + Mozart Sym #39
> TWCL-4013 Brahms Syms #2, 3
> TWCL-4003 Brahms Sym 4 + Mozart Sym #36
#1: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B00DZ6GIIE/ (805 JPY)
#4: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/aw/d/B00AVDQ5SM/ (3,498 JPY)
-P
Frank Berger
were unavailable.
dk
dk