Decca Phase 4

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Rinaldo

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Dec 28, 2010, 11:03:30 PM12/28/10
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I've been searching out what's available on CD and the pickings are
pretty slim. Has anybody heard of plans by Universal Music Group or
ArkivMusic to reissue titles in this series?

makropulos

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Dec 28, 2010, 11:52:50 PM12/28/10
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Australian Eloquence is bringing a few Phase4 recordings out - most
recently Rozsa and Herrmann film music albums. I hope they might be
doing some more.

Steve de Mena

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Dec 29, 2010, 12:37:38 AM12/29/10
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Look through eBay or Amazon (marketplace), you should find a lot of
titles.

Steve

Mr. Mike

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Dec 29, 2010, 2:09:31 AM12/29/10
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There were a couple of box sets of Stokowski conducting various stuff
as follows:

http://amzn.to/eMj3Vi
http://amzn.to/ebioqM

Don't know if this is available at the present time, though.

Kerrison

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Dec 29, 2010, 6:05:18 AM12/29/10
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On Dec 29, 7:09 am, Mr. Mike <m...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2010 20:03:30 -0800 (PST), Rinaldo
>
> <vespers1610me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I've been searching out what's available on CD and the pickings are
> >pretty slim. Has anybody heard of plans by Universal Music Group or
> >ArkivMusic to reissue titles in this series?
>
> There were a couple of box sets of Stokowski conducting various stuff
> as follows:
>
> http://amzn.to/eMj3Vihttp://amzn.to/ebioqM

>
> Don't know if this is available at the present time, though.

London reissued a whole batch of Phase-4 Stereo CDs back in the
mid-1990s, including about a dozen Stokowski releases, as well as
recordings made for them by Munch, Dorati, Herrmann, Rozsa and many
others, including (allegedly) Arthur Fiedler. I say 'allegedly'
because dark rumours have circulated over the years that he wasn't
well enough to conduct, so the Boston Pops assistant conductor, Harry
Ellis Dickson, took the sessions over. They kept Fiedler's name on the
issued discs for contractual reasons and also because no-one had ever
heard of Dickson. By now, however, someone at the BSO ought to have
confirmed or denied as a matter of fact whether this rumour was true
or not.

Cala licensed a few Stokowski recordings that London didn't issue
themselves, including the Czech Philharmonic Elgar 'Enigma Variations'
and LSO Brahms 1st, and the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic Cesar Franck
Symphony and LSO Messiaen 'L'Ascension', plus a remastered edition of
Stokowski's first Phase-4 recording, Rimsky's 'Scheherezade', all
still available.

London's CDs often mixed conductors, so you got Herrmann and Stokowski
on one Charles Ives CD, in the 2nd Symphony (Herrmann) and Orchestral
Set No. 2 (Stokowski) respectively, both with the LSO. On an all-
Respighi London CD you had Munch in The Pines and Fountains of Rome
and Dorati in Rossiniana. Now there's a lovely work which is too
seldom played these days.

On the other hand, I don't recall if any of the Phase-4 recordings
made by Leinsdorf (The Rite of Spring, etc.) or Maazel (Pictures at an
Exhibition, etc.) or Sargent (a Gilbert and Sullivan selection) or
Ivan Davis (Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto, etc.) or Henry Lewis
(Beethoven's 'Pastoral,' etc.) and many others, were ever reissued on
CD by London. Whether there'd be any commercial demand for them these
days, apropos Universal or Arkiv, I couldn't say.

William Sommerwerck

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Dec 29, 2010, 8:21:52 AM12/29/10
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I find it unfortunate that neither of the Bernard Herrmann quadraphonic
film-score albums has been reissued on SACD. They are quite spectacular on
open-reel tape -- in fact, one of them was /the/ best-selling quad open-reel
tape.


Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 29, 2010, 10:33:05 AM12/29/10
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As a rule of thumb, I'd say that if it has already been issued on CD, it will
be issued again, over and over and over (including downloadable formats). If
it has never been issued on CD, save your LPs or kiss goodbye to it forever.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 29, 2010, 1:29:37 PM12/29/10
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On Dec 29, 5:05 am, Kerrison <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[editing]

> London reissued a whole batch of Phase-4 Stereo CDs back in the
> mid-1990s, including about a dozen Stokowski releases, as well as
> recordings made for them by Munch, Dorati, Herrmann, Rozsa and many
> others, including (allegedly) Arthur Fiedler. I say 'allegedly'
> because dark rumours have circulated over the years that he wasn't
> well enough to conduct, so the Boston Pops assistant conductor, Harry
> Ellis Dickson, took the sessions over. They kept Fiedler's name on the
> issued discs for contractual reasons and also because no-one had ever
> heard of Dickson. By now, however, someone at the BSO ought to have
> confirmed or denied as a matter of fact whether this rumour was true
> or not.

If my memory is correct, Dickson confirmed this in a book he wrote
about Fiedler, and about his (Dickson's) years with the Pops as well,
after Fiedler's death. I'll try to check the book and report back.

Don Tait

Roger Kulp

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Dec 29, 2010, 3:45:47 PM12/29/10
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Which titles would these be?

Roger

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 29, 2010, 4:38:21 PM12/29/10
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On Dec 29, 2:45 pm, Roger Kulp <thorenstd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 29, 11:29 am, Dontaitchic...@aol.com

> >   If my memory is correct, Dickson confirmed this in a book he wrote
> > about Fiedler, and about his (Dickson's) years with the Pops as well,
> > after Fiedler's death. I'll try to check the book and report back.
>
> >   Don Tait
>
> Which titles would these be?
>
> Roger

I can't say now because as I wrote, I'll have to find the Dickson
book and check it.

Don Tait

Kerrison

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Dec 29, 2010, 4:54:50 PM12/29/10
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One of the Phase-4 CDs can definitely be ascribed to Dickson: a
selection of Gershwin numbers on London 443 900-2. The booklet states
that this was recorded in June 1979, just a few weeks or even days
before Fiedler's death. Yet, as his Wikipedia bio states, he had been
in poor health for some time and had suffered a heart seizure on 5th
May. Consequently, there's no way that this Gershwin CD is being
conducted by a man in ill health and the victim of a heart attack.
Maybe the Dickson book will reveal the facts.

pgaron

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Dec 29, 2010, 10:29:46 PM12/29/10
to
On Dec 29, 6:05 am, Kerrison <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> London reissued a whole batch of Phase-4 Stereo CDs back in the
> mid-1990s, including about a dozen Stokowski releases, as well as
> recordings made for them by Munch, Dorati, Herrmann, Rozsa and many
> others, including (allegedly) Arthur Fiedler. I say 'allegedly'
> because dark rumours have circulated over the years that he wasn't
> well enough to conduct, so the Boston Pops assistant conductor, Harry
> Ellis Dickson, took the sessions over. They kept Fiedler's name on the
> issued discs for contractual reasons and also because no-one had ever
> heard of Dickson.

Trivial pursuit: Kitty Dukakis, wife of the former Mass. Governor and
Presidential candidate, is Harry Ellis Dickson's daughter.

pgaron

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 29, 2010, 11:20:27 PM12/29/10
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Roger Kulp <thoren...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:a17e379f-4335-4970-882e-4404eeeec757
@w17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

I'm fairly sure that "Saturday Night Fiedler" was one of them. The cover
art is ghastly, showing a dying man attired in leather because the label's
Mousse-haired Marketing Morons insisted on it.

Kip Williams

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Dec 30, 2010, 12:19:44 AM12/30/10
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Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Roger Kulp<thoren...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:a17e379f-4335-4970-882e-4404eeeec757
> @w17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Dec 29, 11:29 am, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:

>>> If my memory is correct, Dickson confirmed this in a book he wrote
>>> about Fiedler, and about his (Dickson's) years with the Pops as well,
>>> after Fiedler's death. I'll try to check the book and report back.
>>

>> Which titles would these be?
>

> I'm fairly sure that "Saturday Night Fiedler" was one of them. The cover
> art is ghastly, showing a dying man attired in leather because the label's
> Mousse-haired Marketing Morons insisted on it.

All wrapped in white linen and cold as the clay.

http://davewells.us/2009/11/saturday-night-fiedler.html
Picture and conductor confirmation, quoting Dickson's book.

Too bad about Dickson. I was hoping he'd get the job.


Kip W

Steve de Mena

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Dec 30, 2010, 10:25:47 AM12/30/10
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On 12/29/10 11:20 PM, Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

> I'm fairly sure that "Saturday Night Fiedler" was one of them. The cover
> art is ghastly, showing a dying man attired in leather because the label's
> Mousse-haired Marketing Morons insisted on it.

Where did you get those facts?

http://davewells.us/gallery/d/24091-2/Saturday+Night+Fiedler+Cover.jpg

Steve

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 30, 2010, 10:35:23 AM12/30/10
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Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:QDUSo.69537$wf4....@newsfe05.iad:

> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>> Roger Kulp <thoren...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the
>> following letters to be typed in
>> news:a17e379f-4335-4970-882e-4404eeeec757
>> @w17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 11:29 am, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>>> If my memory is correct, Dickson confirmed this in a book he wrote
>>>> about Fiedler, and about his (Dickson's) years with the Pops as well,
>>>> after Fiedler's death. I'll try to check the book and report back.
>>>
>>> Which titles would these be?
>>
>> I'm fairly sure that "Saturday Night Fiedler" was one of them. The
>> cover art is ghastly, showing a dying man attired in leather because
>> the label's Mousse-haired Marketing Morons insisted on it.
>
> All wrapped in white linen and cold as the clay.

Must have been some other issue that had him in leather.

> http://davewells.us/2009/11/saturday-night-fiedler.html
> Picture and conductor confirmation, quoting Dickson's book.
>
> Too bad about Dickson. I was hoping he'd get the job.

So did I, but the geniuses in the back office suddenly had their pupils
replaced with dollar signs, as they thought of all the film soundtrack work
the orchestra would certainly get if they signed a well-known composer with
scant knowledge of repertoire outside his own music.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 30, 2010, 10:35:24 AM12/30/10
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Steve de Mena <st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:WNSdnU6ZS4nmOYHQ...@giganews.com:

Linen suit, not leather. Perhaps I was subconsciously hoping that there was
a Boston Pops cover of "YMCA." Hey, if the MMMs thought it would sell....

operafan

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Dec 30, 2010, 11:38:47 AM12/30/10
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I think they sound pretty horrendous--egregious multi-miking that
makes a solo clarinet sound louder than the whole orchestra, etc. The
only one I have on CD is the reissued Stokowski Scheherezade, which
not only has the multi-miking problem but also has massive overloading
distortion at climaxes. It ruins my favorite performance of this piece.

Kip Williams

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Dec 30, 2010, 12:32:36 PM12/30/10
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Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Steve de Mena<st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:WNSdnU6ZS4nmOYHQ...@giganews.com:
>
> Linen suit, not leather. Perhaps I was subconsciously hoping that there was
> a Boston Pops cover of "YMCA." Hey, if the MMMs thought it would sell....

Or you might have an image of Pat Boone embedded deep in your brain.
Ironically, I think it was the most sincere and genuine part of his
career except possibly for the Mexican stereotypes in "Speedy Gonzales."


Kip W

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 2:29:27 PM12/30/10
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I have found Harry Ellis Dickson's book with his exposition about at
least some of the last "Fiedler/Pops" recordings.

Harry Ellis Dickson: "Arthur Fiedler and the Boston Pops -- An
Irreverent Memoir"
Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1981

Excerpted and summarized from pp. 155-7, Chapter XII, "The Golden
Anniversary":

"In the early spring of 1979, Arthur was approaching another
milestone, this time his fiftieth season as conductor of the Boston
Pops....Arthur had vowed he would never retire, preferring to 'die
with my boots on,' as he was fond of saying. Considering his recent
serious illness, the question around Symphony Hall was, 'will he make
it?' "

Fiedler had had serious brain surgery (to remove fluid) in December
1978. Dickson writes of Fiedler "it was hard to accept the fact that
'the debutante's delight and mother's despair' was now nothing more
than a shell. However, he walked out of the hospital on his own less
than two weeks later, more physically fit than I had seen him in
recent years, though his heart had weakened to a point where his
doctors could only marvel at his tenacity.

"Arthur recovered, but was not quite the same man." But Dickson
writes "the thought of not working was abhorrent to him...Soon after
he left the hospital, a recording session was scheduled to take place.
Tom Morris alerted me to be ready to conduct a new album, *Saturday
Night Fiedler*. On ther day of the session, I came to Symphony Hall
early and received a call from Arthur.

" 'Harry, I'm all dressed, and I'm coming in.'

" 'Okay, Arthur,' I said.

"But a few minutes later I received a call from Tom Morris, who had
just arrived at Arthur's home.

" 'Harry,' he whispered to me, 'he's in no condition to leave the
house, much less conduct.'

"Morris told me later that it took a great deal of persuasion on his
and Helen's [Mrs. Fiedler's] part to get Arthur back into bed. The
recording session took place on schedule, and we finished side one of
the album that morning.

"Two days later, when the second session was scheduled -- this one
to be called "Bach-o-Mania" -- the same telephone drama was
repeated....It is ironic that the very last Fiedler album, with him
the picture of him on the cover strutting dance steps in a while suit,
should have been conducted by me. When the album was released, a
statement appeared on the jacket under Arthur's signature thanking me
and all concerned. It did not definitely state that I conducted.
Subsequently, our management informed Midsong Records that they were
to correct the misimpression. They did so by attaching a pressure-
sensitive label to the cellophane wrap on the jacket, indicating that
Harry Ellis Dickson conducted the album; however,m when I removed the
cellophane from my copy, 'Harry Ellis Dickson' disappeared."

That's what I have found in the book. I saw nothing about the
Gershwin LP. However, there's no index. But evidently Dickson
conducted "Saturday Night Fiedler" for sure.

Don Tait

Kerrison

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Dec 30, 2010, 2:55:10 PM12/30/10
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>   Don Tait- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks. I've now played the Gershwin CD and there's no way that this
is being conducted by a sick 84-year-old who had only a few weeks to
live (Fiedler died on 10 July 1979 and the Gershwin sessions were held
in June) and who'd had a major heart attack in May. It's a wonderful
CD, full of life and pizz-azz, so it's a pity that Decca/London did
Dickson out of his well-deserved credit in much the same way as
Midsong Records evidently did.

david gideon

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Dec 30, 2010, 3:17:57 PM12/30/10
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In article
<106eecca-80a2-4023...@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Kerrison <kerrison1...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On the other hand, I don't recall if any of the Phase-4 recordings
> made by Leinsdorf (The Rite of Spring, etc.) or Maazel (Pictures at an
> Exhibition, etc.) or Sargent (a Gilbert and Sullivan selection) or
> Ivan Davis (Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto, etc.) or Henry Lewis
> (Beethoven's 'Pastoral,' etc.) and many others, were ever reissued on
> CD by London. Whether there'd be any commercial demand for them these
> days, apropos Universal or Arkiv, I couldn't say.

Of those I know the Gilbert & Sullivan selections (Sargent) came out in
a 2-CD set with James Walker's Pinafore (London 455 160). I've done a
few of the Leinsdorf items (Petrouchka, Tannhauser Ovt & VM--from open
reel sources). I'm surprised that so many Phase-4s have been forgotten,
apparently because it was decided that the performers were not
sufficiently marketable.

dg

--
CD issues of long-unavailable classic performances exclusively from:
http://www.rediscovery.us
ReDiscovery radio internet stream: http://www.rediscovery.us/Listen.html

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 3:33:31 PM12/30/10
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> > On Dec 29, 12:29 pm, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 5:05 am, Kerrison <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[edit]

> Thanks. I've now played the Gershwin CD and there's no way that this
> is being conducted by a sick 84-year-old who had only a few weeks to
> live (Fiedler died on 10 July 1979 and the Gershwin sessions were held
> in June) and who'd had a major heart attack in May. It's a wonderful
> CD, full of life and pizz-azz, so it's a pity that Decca/London did
> Dickson out of his well-deserved credit in much the same way as
> Midsong Records evidently did.

And thank *you*. I remember the Gershwin LP, but never bought it and
have no opinion.

You might well have a good point about it being too good to be the
work of a sick, enfeebled man. Fiedler made it to his fiftieth
anniversary concert, and it was televised live. Frankly, I was
horrified by it all. I believe that he never conducted again, and, as
you wrote, died on July 10. It was sad -- but he'd had a long and
glorious career, and was truly an excellent conductor whose quality is
sometimes overlooked because of the "pop" stuff in which he was so
regularly recorded in his last two decades. Among many things, Fiedler
was proud that for years his Boston Pops had programmed more Mozart
piano concertos since 1930 than the Boston Symphony had since 1881.

Incidentally, Fiedler had an almost incredible medical history. His
heart trouble in early 1979, shortly before his death, was just a late
part. He had a massive heart attack as early as 1944. During the Pops
season. Typically, he refused to go to the hospital, told doctors
where they could go and to leave him alone, and was back conducting
nightly concerts in a day or two. Without further problems. Other
major health problems followed, and Fiedler's behavior was the same.
Just some whiskey or beer. And no further problems.

Dickson's book is a marvellous source of information about him, as
is his daughter Johana's memoir.

Happy New Year....

Don Tait

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 4:21:08 PM12/30/10
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Frankly, I agree with you about the Phase 4 series. As you might
recall, Decca/London touted them when they were introduced in the
1960s as an exploitation of something such as "the new possibilities
of stereophonic recording." (My paraphrase of what I recall.) Meaning,
essentially, what you wrote: "egregious multi-miking" and manipulation
of balances, for starters. All part of a passing fad about
stereophonic reproduction. It seems that those things could be in the
existing master tapes and that there are no undoctored ones to use for
more honest sound. If true, it's a pity. At least RCA Victor's
misguided "Dynagroove" sonic manipulation of the '60s was inflicted
after the masters were recorded and stored, and could be subsequently
reversed. Or so I've been given to understand.

Don Tait

graham

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Dec 30, 2010, 4:36:27 PM12/30/10
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<Dontait...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d42b6cb9-b961-4fe7...@l32g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

---------------------------------------------------------------

I recall reading that Stokowski was much enamoured of the P4 system.
Graham


Bob Lombard

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Dec 30, 2010, 4:58:25 PM12/30/10
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graham wrote:
> <Dontait...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:d42b6cb9-b961-4fe7...@l32g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

>


> Frankly, I agree with you about the Phase 4 series. As you might
> recall, Decca/London touted them when they were introduced in the
> 1960s as an exploitation of something such as "the new possibilities
> of stereophonic recording." (My paraphrase of what I recall.) Meaning,
> essentially, what you wrote: "egregious multi-miking" and manipulation
> of balances, for starters. All part of a passing fad about
> stereophonic reproduction. It seems that those things could be in the
> existing master tapes and that there are no undoctored ones to use for
> more honest sound. If true, it's a pity. At least RCA Victor's
> misguided "Dynagroove" sonic manipulation of the '60s was inflicted
> after the masters were recorded and stored, and could be subsequently
> reversed. Or so I've been given to understand.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I recall reading that Stokowski was much enamoured of the P4 system.
> Graham
>
>

The 'control of recorded results' that it offered probably appealed to
him, as later DG practices did to Karajan. Stokowski was reportedly much
interested in orchestral 'details' in public performance too. None of
that signifies that either conductor approved of 'bad balances'.

bl

graham

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Dec 30, 2010, 5:12:26 PM12/30/10
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"Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
news:Xf7To.548342$iV7....@en-nntp-15.dc1.easynews.com...
Surely he would have had to have approved the final mix, wouldn't he?
Graham


Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 5:14:01 PM12/30/10
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On Dec 30, 3:36 pm, "graham" <g.ste...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> <Dontaitchic...@aol.com> wrote in message

[edit]

> I recall reading that Stokowski was much enamoured of the P4 system.
> Graham

Yes, by all accounts Stokowski loved it. It was perfect for him. By
the 1960s he had for decades held the belief that recordings were,
ideally, a medium that should make it possible to do things with music
that could not be achieved in performance. Bringing out instruments
that would otherwise be buried, for instance, or making groups of
instruments more prominent than they'd been in the recording
session(s). The many multi-tracks on the original Fantasia sound track
was a reflection of that. He'd been manipulating his recordings since
his RCA Victor sessions in 1947 and after -- altering dynamics for the
records, and so on. The Phase 4 business, with its overt manipulation
of balances et cetera, was something he was certain to love and
embrace as a part of his old philosophy. Right or wrong. Stokowski in
his eighties, as iconoclastic as ever.

Don Tait


One can fault him, but he truly believed it.

Kimba W Lion

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Dec 30, 2010, 6:35:48 PM12/30/10
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Dontait...@aol.com wrote:

> Yes, by all accounts Stokowski loved it. It was perfect for him. By
>the 1960s he had for decades held the belief that recordings were,
>ideally, a medium that should make it possible to do things with music
>that could not be achieved in performance. Bringing out instruments
>that would otherwise be buried, for instance, or making groups of
>instruments more prominent than they'd been in the recording
>session(s). The many multi-tracks on the original Fantasia sound track
>was a reflection of that. He'd been manipulating his recordings since
>his RCA Victor sessions in 1947 and after -- altering dynamics for the
>records, and so on. The Phase 4 business, with its overt manipulation
>of balances et cetera, was something he was certain to love and
>embrace as a part of his old philosophy. Right or wrong. Stokowski in
>his eighties, as iconoclastic as ever.

With 217,000 (plus or minus) recordings of Scheherazade (for example)
available, why shouldn't one be different, be outrageous even, and maybe be
instructive by highlighting details that normally go unnoticed or nearly so?

The idea of "realistically" reproducing the sound of a symphony orchestra in
one's living room is laughable anyway, so why shouldn't the process be
manipulated by a master musician?

And Phase 4 recordings do have a number of fans, even if Decca doesn't realize
it.

Terry

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Dec 30, 2010, 8:14:34 PM12/30/10
to

Then obviously you never heard Stokowski's recording of Debussy's "Fêtes",
in which piece you'll recall there is a VERY long orchestral crescendo. Not
satisfied to let the conductor manage this long crescendo, the Phase 4
engineers not only augmented it with an electronic crescendo, but added a
left-to-right "pan" effect as well, giving an effect that Superman might
have experienced in a flight to, through and away from the orchestra. I
believe Decca came to their senses some years later, and re-released the
performance without this appalling effect.
--
Cheers, Terry

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 30, 2010, 7:16:02 PM12/30/10
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On Dec 30, 5:35 pm, Kimba W Lion
<norepliesbyem...@norepliesbyemail.invalid> wrote:

Perfect! That's Stokowski's reasoning for sure, whether he thought
of himself as a master musician or not (which he was).

Don Tait

number_six

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Dec 30, 2010, 7:48:32 PM12/30/10
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On Dec 28, 8:03 pm, Rinaldo <vespers1610me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been searching out what's available on CD and the pickings are
> pretty slim. Has anybody heard of plans by Universal Music Group or
> ArkivMusic to reissue titles in this series?

There were also many great Phase 4 LPs outside the classical
repertoire. On the gatefold covers, sometimes you get pictures inside
of other albums.

I recently acquired a Phase 4 LP by Los Machucambos, who were a superb
group.

Come to think of it, I believe they might have been from France, but
then a lot of great Spanish music has always come from France.

My Phase 4 CDs include stuff by Bob Sharples, Edmundo Ros, Bernard
Herrmann, Stanley Black, and that Ketelbey fellow who isn't so popular
in these parts.

Kip Williams

unread,
Dec 30, 2010, 8:04:54 PM12/30/10
to
number_six wrote:

> My Phase 4 CDs include stuff by Bob Sharples, Edmundo Ros, Bernard
> Herrmann, Stanley Black, and that Ketelbey fellow who isn't so popular
> in these parts.

I'm rather fond of Ketelbey, though I haven't gone much beyond his silly
programmatic pieces. I keep looking at a couple volumes of his piano
music, but so far I've only taken things with the aforementioned sort of
silly programmatic titles.

That said, I prefer him on piano, so that's probably not what was on
those Phase 4s anyway.


Kip W

number_six

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Dec 30, 2010, 8:42:22 PM12/30/10
to

Correct, the Phase 4 is the silly programmatic music, I think with
calls of "Baksheesh!" during In A Persian Market.

He has his detractors, many in fact, but I find some of his music very
attractive.

Peter

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Dec 30, 2010, 9:58:35 PM12/30/10
to
I wonder if anyone might know if the very interesting phase 4 stereo
spectacular (LONDON SP 44095) "Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey CIRCUS
SPECTACULAR" has ever been transferred to CD?

Thank you.

Frank Berger

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Dec 30, 2010, 11:41:27 PM12/30/10
to

I don't believe so, but you can get a CD-R here (not cheaply). I don't know
anything about the quality.

http://www.cdbbq.com/web_store.cgi

Kerrison

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Dec 31, 2010, 4:41:21 AM12/31/10
to
On Dec 31, 1:14 am, Terry <tlste...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> Bob Lombard <thorsteinNOS...@vermontel.net> wrote:
> > graham wrote:
> >> <Dontaitchic...@aol.com>  wrote in message
> Cheers, Terry- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Terry ... You are spouting the most absolute rubbish. Stokowski never
recorded Debussy's "Fetes" in Phase-4 in his entire life, so your
ludicrous description of a long electronic crescendo and Decca coming
to their senses and all the rest is sheer claptrap, and thoroughly
misleading claptrap at that.

I have in front of me John Hunt's 1996 Stokowski Discography and can
tell you that Stokowski's only recordings of "Fetes" were on Victor
78s with the Philadelphia Orchestra in 1927 and again in 1939; with
'his Symphony Orchestra' for a 1950 RCA LP; and finally with the
London Symphony for Capitol in 1957, this being his only stereo
recording of the work and not in Phase 4 and nor for Decca.

Now, please do some proper research and get your facts right and then
tell us who did record Debussy's 'Nocturnes' in Phase 4 Stereo. Also,
give us the catalogue number so we can hear this electronic effect for
ourselves, plus the catalogue number of the re-released version
without the "appalling effect" which you so clearly recall.

Dave Cook

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Dec 31, 2010, 8:53:51 AM12/31/10
to
On 2010-12-30, operafan <peter....@gmail.com> wrote:
> only one I have on CD is the reissued Stokowski Scheherezade, which
> not only has the multi-miking problem but also has massive overloading

Do you have the Cala CD? It's a much better remastering job than the
"Jubilee" CD I had previously.

Dave Cook

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:24:26 AM12/31/10
to
Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:Um3To.20590$Zf2....@newsfe17.iad:

What's "stereotypical" about Speedy Gonzales, apart from the exaggerated
dialect? He's industrious, likable, and always victorious.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:24:26 AM12/31/10
to
number_six <cybe...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:1a5da671-e320-42d8-8b11-
97591c...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

I am one of the detractors. I possess a CD with Luigini's "Ballet
Egyptien" suite (Fistoulari/RPO) as a filler to various Ketelby works
(Lanchbery/Philharmonia), and in the "Type" field of my database I list the
latter music not as "orchestral" but as "kitsch."

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:24:26 AM12/31/10
to
Dontait...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:eb0c1f8f-f49b-4680-af01-
0bffa4...@o14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

> Incidentally, Fiedler had an almost incredible medical history. His
> heart trouble in early 1979, shortly before his death, was just a late
> part. He had a massive heart attack as early as 1944. During the Pops
> season. Typically, he refused to go to the hospital, told doctors
> where they could go and to leave him alone, and was back conducting
> nightly concerts in a day or two. Without further problems. Other
> major health problems followed, and Fiedler's behavior was the same.
> Just some whiskey or beer. And no further problems.

Didn't Artur Bodanzky supposedly have a heart attack during a performance of
"Parsifal" at the Metropolitan, whereupon Leinsdorf stepped in to conduct the
second act? And then, Bodanzky returned to conduct the third act?

ivanmaxim

unread,
Dec 31, 2010, 11:28:35 AM12/31/10
to
On Dec 31, 11:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
> number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following

> letters to be typed in news:1a5da671-e320-42d8-8b11-
> 97591c20e...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily available
for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of his ballet
albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch. Wagner fan

ivanmaxim

unread,
Dec 31, 2010, 11:30:11 AM12/31/10
to
On Dec 31, 11:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
> Dontaitchic...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
> typed in news:eb0c1f8f-f49b-4680-af01-
> 0bffa4bf0...@o14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

Yes the broadcast of 4/15/38. Wagner fan

Kip Williams

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:35:20 AM12/31/10
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Kip Williams<k...@rochester.rr.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:Um3To.20590$Zf2....@newsfe17.iad:
>
>> Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>>> Steve de Mena<st...@stevedemena.com> appears to have caused the
>>> following letters to be typed in
>>> news:WNSdnU6ZS4nmOYHQ...@giganews.com:
>>>
>>> Linen suit, not leather. Perhaps I was subconsciously hoping that
>>> there was a Boston Pops cover of "YMCA." Hey, if the MMMs thought it
>>> would sell....
>>
>> Or you might have an image of Pat Boone embedded deep in your brain.
>> Ironically, I think it was the most sincere and genuine part of his
>> career except possibly for the Mexican stereotypes in "Speedy Gonzales."
>
> What's "stereotypical" about Speedy Gonzales, apart from the exaggerated
> dialect? He's industrious, likable, and always victorious.

I'm talking about the song Boone recorded, not the early run (before the
decadent 60s Warner cartoons that pitted Gonzales against an unfunny
Daffy Duck), which seems to have Mel Blanc's voice delivering lines
about tequila for breakfast and such.

My old roommate, Sam Salas, loves to quote lines from the classic
cartoons. The Boone song, not so much.


Kip W

Gerard

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Dec 31, 2010, 11:49:56 AM12/31/10
to

The Luigini recording by Fistoulari was on EMI, IIRC (I have it both on LP and
CD).
It is absolutely no kistch at all.
It is very well possible that Tepper labelled the whole thing as "kitsch"
because of the Ketelbey items.


Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 31, 2010, 1:49:27 PM12/31/10
to

A minor but possibly interesting fact about Ketelbey: he made
records as a conductor. Including, cut down to two record sides

Regal (U.K.) G 1013 Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture

The Silver Stars Band
conducted by Albert W. Ketelbey
matrices 74376, 74392

An acoustical recording, if I recall correctly. I haven't played it
in many years, and now temporarily cannot. Other collectors here might
also own a copy and be able to confirm whether it's acoustical or
electrical process.

Don Tait

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 31, 2010, 2:07:48 PM12/31/10
to
ivanmaxim <ivanm...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:ecf2822c-1da4-45a3-b675-
1c7157...@n10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 31, 11:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am one of the detractors.  I possess a CD with Luigini's "Ballet
>> Egyptien" suite (Fistoulari/RPO) as a filler to various Ketelby works
>> (Lanchbery/Philharmonia), and in the "Type" field of my database I list
>> the latter music not as "orchestral" but as "kitsch."
>

> That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily available
> for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of his ballet
> albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch. Wagner fan

No no; the Luigini is described in my database as "ballet exc." It's the
Ketelby that's "kitsch"!

ivanmaxim

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Dec 31, 2010, 2:41:03 PM12/31/10
to
On Dec 31, 2:07 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters

> to be typed in news:ecf2822c-1da4-45a3-b675-
> 1c7157338...@n10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:

>
> > On Dec 31, 11:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> I am one of the detractors.  I possess a CD with Luigini's "Ballet
> >> Egyptien" suite (Fistoulari/RPO) as a filler to various Ketelby works
> >> (Lanchbery/Philharmonia), and in the "Type" field of my database I list
> >> the latter music not as "orchestral" but as "kitsch."
>
> > That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily available
> > for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of his ballet
> > albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch.  Wagner fan
>
> No no; the Luigini is described in my database as "ballet exc."  It's the
> Ketelby that's "kitsch"!
>
> --
> Matthew B. Tepper:  WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
> To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers

Ah OK. But for me. like a lot of the pseudo-Oriental stuff that came
out of France around that time - it is pretty "kitsch-y". But thats
for each to decide. BTW I love Adorno's defintion of kitsch - the
beautiful minus its ugly counterpart. best Wagner Fan

Dontait...@aol.com

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Dec 31, 2010, 3:35:35 PM12/31/10
to
On Dec 31, 10:28 am, ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily available
> for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of his ballet
> albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch.  Wagner fan

I confess to being old enough to have bought, around 1958, RCA
Victor LM(x)-1084. Luigini: Ballet egyptienne. Overside: Massenet: Le
Cid: Ballet Music. Arthur Fiedler/Boston Pops Orchestra.

A great record, with great spirit and magnificent playing from Serge
Koussevitzky's Boston Symphony. I now own about three copies of it
just in case something happens to one or one wears out.

Concerning the Luigini, I happened to find on the Internet not long
ago that the four-movement suite was neither taken from a longer work
nor from a ballet. It was a concert work with that title.

Does anyone else remember that the beginning of the first movement
was used as musical accompaniment for early sound cartoons in which
stylized drawings imitating ancient Egyptian ones were depicted as
moving their arms in profile, to the accompaniment of Luigini's
music?

Don Tait

ivanmaxim

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Dec 31, 2010, 3:39:53 PM12/31/10
to

No but I can definitely picture that. I guess the Fiedler has never
been transferred to CD??? If not I'll look for a copy the music is
fun. Wagner fan

Matthew B. Tepper

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Dec 31, 2010, 5:39:21 PM12/31/10
to
Dontait...@aol.com appears to have caused the following letters to be
typed in news:07d2fe73-c6db-4542-9ba4-835aba0242cd@
39g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> On Dec 31, 10:28 am, ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily available
>> for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of his ballet
>> albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch.  Wagner fan
>
> I confess to being old enough to have bought, around 1958, RCA
> Victor LM(x)-1084. Luigini: Ballet egyptienne. Overside: Massenet: Le
> Cid: Ballet Music. Arthur Fiedler/Boston Pops Orchestra.
>
> A great record, with great spirit and magnificent playing from Serge
> Koussevitzky's Boston Symphony. I now own about three copies of it
> just in case something happens to one or one wears out.
>
> Concerning the Luigini, I happened to find on the Internet not long
> ago that the four-movement suite was neither taken from a longer work
> nor from a ballet. It was a concert work with that title.

I did not know that! I should make the appropriate adjustment to the
listing in my database.

> Does anyone else remember that the beginning of the first movement was
> used as musical accompaniment for early sound cartoons in which stylized
> drawings imitating ancient Egyptian ones were depicted as moving their
> arms in profile, to the accompaniment of Luigini's music?

No, but I remember when Steve Martin introduced his song "King Tut" on TV!

Gerard

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Jan 1, 2011, 6:18:18 AM1/1/11
to
ivanmaxim wrote:

> On Dec 31, 2:07 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> > ivanmaxim <ivanmax...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
> > following letters to be typed in news:ecf2822c-1da4-45a3-b675-
> > 1c7157338...@n10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > On Dec 31, 11:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > I am one of the detractors. I possess a CD with Luigini's
> > > > "Ballet Egyptien" suite (Fistoulari/RPO) as a filler to various
> > > > Ketelby works (Lanchbery/Philharmonia), and in the "Type" field
> > > > of my database I list the latter music not as "orchestral" but
> > > > as "kitsch."
> >
> > > That Fistoulari Luigini recording was the only one readily
> > > available for a very long time till Bonynge recorded it in one of
> > > his ballet albums - yes it is very pretty kitsch. Wagner fan
> >
> > No no; the Luigini is described in my database as "ballet exc."
> > It's the Ketelby that's "kitsch"!
> >
> > --
> > Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
> > Read about "Proty" here:http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
> > To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
> > Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
>
> Ah OK.

Like I said.

> But for me. like a lot of the pseudo-Oriental stuff that came
> out of France around that time - it is pretty "kitsch-y". But thats
> for each to decide. BTW I love Adorno's defintion of kitsch - the
> beautiful minus its ugly counterpart. best Wagner Fan

Well, for a wagner fan there must be a lot of kitsch-y stuff.
Or was it the opposite?


operafan

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Jan 1, 2011, 2:41:45 PM1/1/11
to
On Dec 31 2010, 8:53 am, Dave Cook <davec...@nowhere.net> wrote:

Yup, it's the Caa CD.

operafan

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Jan 1, 2011, 2:44:07 PM1/1/11
to
On Dec 31 2010, 4:41 am, Kerrison <kerrison126-spar...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
\

> Terry ... You are spouting the most absolute rubbish. Stokowski never
> recorded Debussy's "Fetes" in Phase-4 in his entire life, so your
> ludicrous description of a long electronic crescendo and Decca coming
> to their senses and all the rest is sheer claptrap, and thoroughly
> misleading claptrap at that.

> Now, please do some proper research and get your facts right and then


> tell us who did record Debussy's 'Nocturnes' in Phase 4 Stereo. Also,
> give us the catalogue number so we can hear this electronic effect for
> ourselves, plus the catalogue number of the re-released version
> without the "appalling effect" which you so clearly recall.

This is the only Phase 4 version of this piece I found (the catalog
number is London not Decca:

SPC-21104...Jean Fournet/The Netherlands Radio Philharmonic: Debussy:
Afternoon of a Faun/Nocturnes: Nuages • Fetes • Sirenes/Iberia LP
(1975)

Steve de Mena

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Jan 1, 2011, 2:53:37 PM1/1/11
to

I think I had that, had a silver or gold reflective cover(?).

Steve

Kerrison

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Jan 1, 2011, 3:53:45 PM1/1/11
to

Thanks for the research! I've now found the equivalent Decca number
(PFS 4317) and a review in The Penguin Guide which states Fournet's
are "well made performances, helped by the brilliant Decca recording,
which is not too unnaturally balanced." As to the 'Nocturnes', the
review states that "it is as its best in 'Fetes', where the distancing
of the procession is managed with a technical wizardry which would not
be possible at a live performance yet does not sound contrived." So
much for it being "an appalling effect."

Incidentally, the Phase-4 producers used this Dutch orchestra for
several of their recordings, including Stokowski in the Cesar Frank
Symphony (where it was named the Hilversum Radio Philharmonic, since
that's the name of the town where the country's radio orchestra has
its studios), Dorati in Prokofiev's Lt Kije and Kodaly's Hary Janos
Suite, and Fistoulari in a complete Swan Lake.

Gerard

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Jan 2, 2011, 6:13:31 AM1/2/11
to

I think that those names (of the orchestras) are confusing.
"Hilversum Radio Philharmonic" is not a familiar name.
The broadcasting companies had 2 orchestras in Hilversum:

- Radio Filharmonisch orkest Holland, or
Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra

- Radio Symfonie Orkest

I have the Franck symphonie on a Cala CD and on a Decca CD. With the "Hilversum
Radio Philharmonic Orchestra", as you wrote.

That orchestra probably is the Radio Filharmonisch orkest, sometimes referred to
like:
"Radio Filharmonisch orkest te Hilversum" ("te" = at).

Googling "Hilversum Radio Philharmonic" I see this name is mostly used in
connection to .. Stokowski's recording.

The orchestra (Radio Filharmonisch orkest) has made recordings with Stokowski,
Fournet, Dorati, Van Zweden, De Waart, Wigglesworth and others.

http://www.radiofilharmonischorkest.nl/mco_page/orkestbiografie
http://en.radiofilharmonischorkest.nl/mco_page/theorchestra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Filharmonisch_Orkest

Message has been deleted

number_six

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Jan 2, 2011, 11:31:29 AM1/2/11
to
On Dec 31 2010, 8:24 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oy @earthlink.net>
wrote:
> number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> appears to have caused the following

> letters to be typed in news:1a5da671-e320-42d8-8b11-
> 97591c20e...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

I have that CD also. Lanchbery deserves some regard not only as a
conductor, but as a composer -- his music for Tales of Beatrix Potter
was very good.

The term "kitsch" is sometimes used disdainfully, sometimes
affectionately. Ketelbey may not earn your affection, but I don't
think his music should be disdained.

Of all the tools and materials a composer has at hand, the melodist's
gift may be the most obvious and accessible to the general
listenership, but can also be the most elusive and uncontrollable
element of composition. I believe melody has a different relationship
to the perspiration /inspiration dynamic than anything else in
composition. This forms a potential trap into which composers and
sophisticated, knowledgeable listeners sometimes fall -- they should
extol and appreciate the other compositional virtues, yes, but not
disdain a great melody that catches the audience's fancy.

ivanmaxim

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Jan 2, 2011, 11:58:57 AM1/2/11
to
> disdain a great melody that catches the audience's fancy.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh I agree - I enjoy some musical kitsch - kind of the same way I love
those old Universal horror films - a guilty pleasure I guess but can
be alot of fun and really enjoyable!!! Wagner fan

William Sommerwerck

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Jan 2, 2011, 12:02:46 PM1/2/11
to
> Of all the tools and materials a composer has at hand, the
> melodist's gift may be the most obvious and accessible to
> the general listenership, but can also be the most elusive
> and uncontrollable element of composition. I believe melody
> has a different relationship to the perspiration/inspiration
> dynamic than anything else in composition. This forms a
> potential trap into which composers and sophisticated,
> knowledgeable listeners sometimes fall -- they should
> extol and appreciate the other compositional virtues, yes,
> but not disdain a great melody that catches the audience's
> fancy.

But what if that "great melody" is all the composer has to offer the
listener?

To give one example... Who remembers Henry Mancini's film scores?


Kip Williams

unread,
Jan 2, 2011, 12:12:47 PM1/2/11
to
William Sommerwerck wrote:

> But what if that "great melody" is all the composer has to offer the
> listener?
>
> To give one example... Who remembers Henry Mancini's film scores?

Not in their entirety, but I listen to Mancini for pleasure.


Kip W

Kimba W Lion

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Jan 2, 2011, 12:36:27 PM1/2/11