Barshai Shosty - Musicweb review
August Helmbright
musicweb listened to the same performances that I did. He states that
the 15th is "substandard." Indeed, I have never really liked this work
(past the first movement) until now -- it took Barshai to convince me
that it really is up to DSCH's best standards after all. In his hands,
perhaps due in part to slightly faster tempi than one normally hears
but not entirely for this reason, this work is a coherent whole and
very dramatically effective. My previous opinion was that it was
terribly episodic.
I have just finished listing to all the symphonies in order, and can
give an unqualified "buy" recommendation to this set for those not
fortunate enough to have already secured it.
Ray Hall
news:12cbb4d6.0302...@posting.google.com...
A top recommendation most definitely. I gave the Barshai 15th a listen last
night, and ..... well let me say that I feel Haitink does the ending far far
better, although I agree with you about the rest of the work. To date I have
listened to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 9th, 12th and the 15th. The 1st is a
real winner, as is the 7th and 9th. In fact, Barshai has almost but
virtually convinced me about the 2nd and 3rd. Some good Shosty in these
works, and Barshai appears to make sense out of them. He appears to treat
the 12th in a rather perfunctory manner, but that won't matter for many.
One aspect of the closing bars of Barshai's 15th was the extremely loud
(cymbals?) that enter for a brief outburst that destroy the effect of the
ominous ticking (click clacking) away to a close. At least for me. Does
anyone (maybe David Hurwitz) have a score and be able to say whether this is
indicated in the score.
Anyone who hasn't this set, should grab it. It is essential. For the 7th
alone it is worth the price.
Regards,
# http://www.users.bigpond.com/hallraylily/index.html
See You Tamara (Ozzy Osbourne)
Ray, Taree, NSW
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Len at MusicWeb
"August Helmbright" <augusthe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:12cbb4d6.0302...@posting.google.com...
> musicweb listened to the same performances that I did.
MusicWeb actually had three reviewers listening to this set:
Paul Serotsky
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Aug02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barsh
ai.htm
Dave Billinge
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Jun02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barsh
ai.htm
Chris Howell
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/July02/Shostakovich_Barshai.htm
There are also reviews of the individual releases now occurring on the Regis
label
Regards
Len
vaneyes
It's an uneven set with many distractions, as a Musicweb reviewer
correctly points out...
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/May02/Ancerl.htm
He also recommends it as a buy...mostly for its price, I imagine.
Certainly that's enough to hook CD addicts. Newbies with little
Shosty, however, should look elsewhere. There are plenty of
super-budget, budget, mid-price offerings (not to mention
previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
his third-tier? band.
Regards
vaneyes
Conductors Ancerl is anything but uneven.
The Musicweb Barshai Shostakovich URL...
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Jun02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barshai.htm
Regards
Ray Hall
news:a0819b38.0302...@posting.google.com...
Bullshit Vaneyes. I'd swap the Haitink set I have for Barshai any day of the
week. But I won't, because Haitink is very good in his normally direct and
solid way. But your comment of the NDR as a third-tier band, takes the cake.
I seriously cannot believe you have heard the Barshai set. The playing is
superb, as is the recording. Let me put it this way. I'd dread the VPO
tackling this repertoire, and get a fraction of the results the NDR gets.
Of course, if you want the first movement of the 7th to sound like Bolero,
then there are plenty of other conductors that will accomodate your taste.
No cycle will ever be perfect, but Barshai is as good as it gets.
Bob Harper
Except that it's the *W*DR, I agree with Ray. The notion that it's a
'third-tier' orchestra is simply silly. They play the hell out of the
music, and Barshai has a great deal to say. As Ray says, it's not
perfect, but it's up there with the best.
And it's cheap. Do you, like the unlamented Alrod, object to it on that
ground?
Bob Harper
Stephen W. Worth
<van...@excite.com> wrote:
> There are plenty of
> super-budget, budget, mid-price offerings (not to mention
> previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
> his third-tier? band.
Which ones are those?
See ya
Steve
--
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CLASSIC MUSIC FROM ORIGINAL 78s, EXPERTLY TRANSFERRED TO CD!
VIP Records: Dance Bands - British Swing Bands - Opera
Check out the free MP3 downloads at http://www.vintageip.com/records
August Helmbright
>
> It's an uneven set with many distractions, as a Musicweb reviewer
> correctly points out...
>
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/May02/Ancerl.htm
>
> He also recommends it as a buy...mostly for its price, I imagine.
> Certainly that's enough to hook CD addicts. Newbies with little
> Shosty, however, should look elsewhere. There are plenty of
> super-budget, budget, mid-price offerings (not to mention
> previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
> his third-tier? band.
>
get praised to the heights that I don't care for myself. However, I've
heard many different Shostakovich performances, and I find Barshai's
recordings to be more satifsying as a set than anyone else's I know.
And I certainly don't think his orchestra sounds third rate.
Joshua Kaufman
>
> In article <a0819b38.0302...@posting.google.com>, vaneyes
> <van...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > There are plenty of
> > super-budget, budget, mid-price offerings (not to mention
> > previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
> > his third-tier? band.
>
> Which ones are those?
Maybe in #5. There's an Amadis CD ($3-$4) that's better.
-Joshua
--
AOL-IM: TerraEpon ICQ: 5404138
Len at MusicWeb
news:<12cbb4d6.0302...@posting.google.com>...
>
> It's an uneven set with many distractions, as a Musicweb reviewer
> correctly points out...
>
With all due respect I have to say this is an extreme minority view.
Nothing wrong with that of course but I would not want it to put off one
person from investigating this set. It has been reported as being available
for under £9. That cannot last so act fast to get hold of a set.
Len
Bruce Wheeler
wrote:
>augusthe...@msn.com (August Helmbright) wrote in message news:<12cbb4d6.0302...@posting.google.com>...
>> I have to wonder if the reviewer of the Barshai Shostakovich set on
>> musicweb listened to the same performances that I did. He states that
>> the 15th is "substandard." Indeed, I have never really liked this work
>> (past the first movement) until now -- it took Barshai to convince me
>> that it really is up to DSCH's best standards after all. In his hands,
>> perhaps due in part to slightly faster tempi than one normally hears
>> but not entirely for this reason, this work is a coherent whole and
>> very dramatically effective. My previous opinion was that it was
>> terribly episodic.
>>
>> I have just finished listing to all the symphonies in order, and can
>> give an unqualified "buy" recommendation to this set for those not
>> fortunate enough to have already secured it.
>
>It's an uneven set with many distractions, as a Musicweb reviewer
>correctly points out...
>
Corrected URL
>http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Jun02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barshai.htm
>
Yes, uneven, ranging from very good to excellent, with the
exception of #15, which he rates substandard (according to this
review).
"In summary this set includes at least four excellent
performances, 1, 5, 9 and 11, and two great performances, Nos.6
and 13. Only No.15 is substandard, the rest are very good. "
For another assessment of #14, see
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Aug02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barshai3.htm
"What we hear is exactly what he intended us to hear. My feelings
about the nature of the music, as expressed here, do not
originate from any perceptive acuity on my part ..., but from
what Barshai is telling me. It doesn’t really matter whether you
think his performance good or bad, because above all it is an
informed one. "
>He also recommends it as a buy...mostly for its price, I imagine.
"The primary question any collector will want answered is, "Is
this set worth buying?" The answer is a clear and unambiguous,
"Yes." "
>Certainly that's enough to hook CD addicts. Newbies with little
>Shosty, however, should look elsewhere. There are plenty of
>super-budget, budget, mid-price offerings (not to mention
>previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
>his third-tier? band.
>
>
I think you are taking a few quibbles (mainly about liner notes
and lack of texts) of his out of context.
Regards,
Bruce Wheeler
Thomas Muething
> previously-enjoyeds and close-outs), that easily out-pace Barshai and
> his third-tier? band.
Third-tier? This is the positive proof that you are stupid, just plain
stupid.
Thomas
--
"That's the spirit ... If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed
unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through." General
Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett, Black Adder Goes Forth
Thomas Muething
> It's an uneven set with many distractions, as a Musicweb reviewer
> correctly points out...
[rest of nonsense snipped]
"Vaneyes" is one of those "posters without a face" who have a hidden
agenda: IN his case, it's denouncing budget recordings by independent
labels (most notably, Naxos) that spit in the recycling factory soup by
the majors.
The Barshai/Shostakovich is a recommenable set for just about anyone,
and especially for beginners.
Thomas Muething
> Pardon me for the previous post's mistaken URL. The EMI Great
>
> http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Jun02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barshai.htm
Not the wrong link, but a misrepresentation of that review's intention
is what you should ask pardon for. The reviewer ranges the set between
very good and excellent (except #15).
As for the original poster: As you can see from the repsonses to
"vaneyes"' stupid ranting, he's very(!) clearly in a minority.
Thomas Muething
>
> Maybe in #5. There's an Amadis CD ($3-$4) that's better.
With which orchestra/conductor?
Joshua Kaufman
>
> Joshua Kaufman wrote:
>
> >
> > Maybe in #5. There's an Amadis CD ($3-$4) that's better.
>
> With which orchestra/conductor?
National Symphony of Ukraine with Theodore Huchar.
Yeah, noone famous (O_O), but it's surprisingly good for a budget CD
(heard it first at my library when I was sampling all of the Violin
Concerto #1s, which is also very good on that CD)
August Helmbright
he and I were definitely listening to the same recordings, albeit with
different packaging. Mine is the multiple jewel box set, while he had
the wallet version with the cardboard sleeves that were "a bit too
sturdy."
Another troubling work is the 7th, but as Mr. Serotsky points out, it
seems very good in Barshai's hands. Only the 12th is less than first
rate, but there's not much any conductor can do to rescue that work
from sounding like a B war movie score. Given the depth and profundity
of the 13th, as well as subsequent comments that the 11th might really
have been about the Hungarian uprising, I wonder if DSCH was making a
statement in the 12th like, "OK, I'll write a nice Socialist Realism
symphony, but to make it clear just how I really feel, I'll make it so
banal that no one will take it seriously."
Jan Depondt
"August Helmbright" <augusthe...@msn.com> schreef in bericht
news:12cbb4d6.03021...@posting.google.com...
|
| I wonder if DSCH was making a
| statement in the 12th like, "OK, I'll write a nice Socialist Realism
| symphony, but to make it clear just how I really feel, I'll make it so
| banal that no one will take it seriously."
Maybe he did (I don't know), as he did make many other statements in many of
these symphonies.
But how do you think Barshai has "brought" it? In my view it's Barshai
'statement': "OK, Shostakovich has made a lot of statements here, but let's
play the music behind/around them".
--
Jan Depondt
____________________________
mail: jdptATwanadoo.nl
vaneyes
I don't think we need stoop to recordings like the Ukraine with
Kuchar, or the Brussels with Rahbari. There's plenty of Shostakovich
to choose from at super-budget, budget, and mid-price, that will
outshine them and Barshai, ie Rozhdestvensky, Rostropovich,
Kondrashin, Mravinsky, Haitink, Ormandy, Bernstein, Previn, Jansons,
etc. And even more, if one bothers to browse previously-enjoyed and
close-out bins.
I seem to have rattled the cages of Barshai or Cheap worshippers.
Cheap seems to have clouded their thinking about Barshai. If one or
two of the Symphonies makes their purchase worthwhile, good for
them...but they shouldn't attempt to insult the intelligence of others
by promoting the entire item in such salivary manner.
Regards
vaneyes
> "Vaneyes" is one of those "posters without a face"
That's obviously too much for you to handle, so you won't get any
more.
> ....who have a hidden
> agenda: IN his case, it's denouncing budget recordings by independent
> labels (most notably, Naxos) that spit in the recycling factory soup by
> the majors.
Good things are to be hunted and gathered from all sources, including
Naxos. There is no need to worship a label.
> The Barshai/Shostakovich is a recommenable set for just about anyone,
> and especially for beginners.
More than likely, an item for CD addicts on the cheap.
Regards
MarkZimmerman
would probably rank between 9 & 11 on a scale of 1-11. But, from what everyone
sais about the engineering it seems a must buy as I love great sound and
equally great soundstage.
Best,
Mark Allen Zimmerman * Chicago
Van Eyes
> > Paul Serotsky
> > http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/Aug02/Shostakovich_symphonies_Barsh
> > ai.htm
> Reading Paul Serotsky's review, particularly about the 5th, I believe
> he and I were definitely listening to the same recordings....
I found him to be more historian (3 Webpages) than reviewer. And maybe
Barshai's manager? Just kidding, but the review does
go on, and is all aglow throughout...coming dangerously close to the
atmosphere of 10/10
ratings. heh heh
Perhaps Musicweb just wanted a more positive review of this box-set. I
found the two preceding Musicweb box-set reviews pointed out more
discrepancies (all do praise pricing). Maybe this
is why you preferred Serotsky--"I believe he and I were definitely
listening to the same recordings."
Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
August Helmbright
> Reading Paul Serotsky's review, particularly about the 5th, I believe
> he and I were definitely listening to the same recordings, albeit with
> different packaging. Mine is the multiple jewel box set, while he had
> the wallet version with the cardboard sleeves that were "a bit too
> sturdy."
>
August Helmbright
I think Barshai plays this music fairly straight, which is about all
you can do with it. There simply isn't any depth or profundity to find
behind the notes. My point was that Shostakovich, in the uncomfortable
position of having to write a symphony about the 1917 revolution,
might have gone out of his way to write a banal pot-boiler with the
12th. This is not to say there's anything profound there. It's just to
give the composer the benefit of the doubt that he didn't actually
take that work seriously. (I know I don't, and I don't see how anyone
could.)
Thomas Muething
>
> That's obviously too much for you to handle, so you won't get any
> more.
Not too much to handle, but too little to hold the attention. Which
isn't a bad thing, since the faceless poster, basically, has nothing to say.
> Good things are to be hunted and gathered from all sources, including
> Naxos. There is no need to worship a label.
But no need to continually bash a label, like you've been doing (if the
nameless one is one single poster).
>
> More than likely, an item for CD addicts on the cheap.
No, just for addicts of enlightenment ;-)
Thomas
>
>
> Regards
Regards with no name attached mean nothing.
Van Eyes
> Not too much to handle, but too little to hold the attention. Which
> isn't a bad thing, since the faceless poster, basically, has nothing to say.
Then why do you keep whining in reply?
Ray Hall
Barshai exists, and not only knew Shostakovich well, but premiered his 14th
symphony. He hasn't exactly come out of nowhere, twenty shots behind the
pack, but prefers his privacy to that of being a jetset style of conductor.
There is no way anyone with any common sense is going to pay even 5c for a
box of some awful dreck, or even half decent performances, only to waste
shelf space. Fact is, I much prefer paying less for the same good item than
more for the same good item (makes me sorta weird I suppose), and that item
has to be what I want. Please don't confuse "cheap" with "inexpensive".
The Barshai set has received excellent reviews, not only on MusicWeb either.
ClassicsToday and even the small latest Penguin interim guide give some
performances on Regis, the 5th, 6th, and 7th good reviews, and the
orchestral set as a whole won an Award at Cannes. Deservedly so, for the
interpretative quality, the playing and the engineering. Incidentally,
Penguin have also awarded the Fischer/Haydn set (also on Brilliant Classics)
a Rosette, for those interested in such things. That set was inexpensive
also.
And the remark about "stooping to the Ukraine Orchestra and Kuchar" is
wholely unjustified and completely undeserved. Just an anti-Naxos dig. Also,
the Rhabari DSCH 5th and 9th is a whole lot better (actually quite exciting
performances) than Previn's CSO 5th. What a real drag that one is, and this
EMI twofer is saved only by the fact that Previn does a fairly reasonable
4th with them, and only becomes really desirable for the Britten items with
the LSO.
Van Eyes
news:bsh3a.47777$jM5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com
> Barshai exists, and not only knew Shostakovich well, but premiered his 14th
> symphony. He hasn't exactly come out of nowhere, twenty shots behind the
> pack, but prefers his privacy to that of being a jetset style of conductor.
I'm aware of him. Barshai was MD for the Vancouver SO, before his
contract was terminated early.
> There is no way anyone with any common sense is going to pay even 5c for a
> box of some awful dreck, or even half decent performances, only to waste
> shelf space. Fact is, I much prefer paying less for the same good item than
> more for the same good item (makes me sorta weird I suppose), and that item
> has to be what I want. Please don't confuse "cheap" with "inexpensive".
BAM, continue to like what you like, and I will, too.
> The Barshai set has received excellent reviews, not only on MusicWeb either.
> ClassicsToday and even the small latest Penguin interim guide give some
> performances on Regis, the 5th, 6th, and 7th good reviews, and the
> orchestral set as a whole won an Award at Cannes. Deservedly so, for the
> interpretative quality, the playing and the engineering. Incidentally,
> Penguin have also awarded the Fischer/Haydn set (also on Brilliant Classics)
> a Rosette, for those interested in such things. That set was inexpensive
> also.
Most of the reviews I've read use the "good value" tagline, just as is
often done with Naxos product...which is often misleading--performance &
sound vs value. Anyway, that's a Penguin discussion that I don't wanta
waste time on.
Re the Haydn, and I've said, there's usually something good from all
labels.
> And the remark about "stooping to the Ukraine Orchestra and Kuchar" is
> wholely unjustified and completely undeserved. Just an anti-Naxos dig. Also,
> the Rhabari DSCH 5th and 9th is a whole lot better (actually quite exciting
> performances) than Previn's CSO 5th. What a real drag that one is, and this
> EMI twofer is saved only by the fact that Previn does a fairly reasonable
> 4th with them, and only becomes really desirable for the Britten items with
> the LSO.
That's your opinion.
The anti-Naxos dig is N/A. I suggest some Naxos recordings...just not
the entire catalogue, as some dreamers do.
Why pick on just Previn? I listed others.
Ray Hall
news:459911d7086c7b5d9f3...@mygate.mailgate.org...
| I'm aware of him. Barshai was MD for the Vancouver SO, before his
| contract was terminated early.
The above information relays no information about Barshai's merits as a
conductor at all.
| The anti-Naxos dig is N/A.
Hardly, when you mention in your own words, "stooping as low as the Ukraine
SO and Kuchar", one of the Naxos house orchestras, and a damned fine
orchestra too. Apart from their participation in many of the American
Classics Series, I am beginning to warm to Fagen's Martinu symphonies with
them. Good recording and great detail, in what are quite dense scores.
| I suggest some Naxos recordings...just not
| the entire catalogue, as some dreamers do.
I know of nobody who would suggest buying "blind" from any catalogue. It
would be utter foolishness.
| Why pick on just Previn? I listed others.
Because I generally like Previn's early recordings, and even today, he can
on occasion be brilliant. Normally I would never pick on a once very fave
conductor, but his CSO 5th is really quite dull. Ormandy's 5th I don't know,
but I have his 4th and 10th coupling on Essential Classics, and it is very
worthwhile, but not exactly revelatory. For the 4th one probably needs
someone like Kondrashin. Haitink is entirely dependable throughout his set,
well recorded, as one would expect, with the RCO and LPO doing what would be
expected from them. As for the others, then Mravinsky has long since bored
me with his Tchaikovsky (let alone Shosty), ice cold, calculated, and with
poorish sound.
One conductor you have also forgotten is Berglund. But the simple fact is,
that Barshai's set is good to very good to excellent, at *any* price. And
one should never confuse the word "cheap" with "inexpensive".
Stephen W. Worth
<459911d7086c7b5d9f3...@mygate.mailgate.org>, Van Eyes
<van...@excite.com> wrote:
> The anti-Naxos dig is N/A. I suggest some Naxos recordings...just not
> the entire catalogue
Which Naxos titles do you recommend?
Thomas Muething
> That's your opinion.
> The anti-Naxos dig is N/A.
Yeah, right. Just do a quick google search, and there it is: a flood of
Naxos bashings from this source.
Thomas Muething
>
> I found him to be more historian (3 Webpages) than reviewer. And maybe
> Barshai's manager? Just kidding, but the review does
> go on, and is all aglow throughout...coming dangerously close to the
> atmosphere of 10/10
> ratings. heh heh
That venom. Sad little ... man?
> Perhaps Musicweb just wanted a more positive review of this box-set. I
> found the two preceding Musicweb box-set reviews pointed out more
> discrepancies (all do praise pricing). Maybe this
> is why you preferred Serotsky--"I believe he and I were definitely
> listening to the same recordings."
>
>
> Regards
Again, a regards with no name carries no meaning at all.
Thomas Muething
>
> Which Naxos titles do you recommend?
Well, have a look:
http://groups.google.de/groups?q=vaneyes+naxos&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=de&btnG=Google-Suche
:-) :-) :-)
Van Eyes
> | I'm aware of him. Barshai was MD for the Vancouver SO, before his
> | contract was terminated early.
>
> The above information relays no information about Barshai's merits as a
> conductor at all.
His brief stay was probably the worst conductor experience the Vancouver
SO ever had. His behavior and music-making is well documented in John
Becker's book, Discord--The Story of the VSO.
I attended a few of his concerts and never found anything memorable in
them.
Enough on this Barshai thread for me. You may have the last word, if you
like.
Van Eyes
news:140220032019003925%ne...@vintageip.com
> In article
> <459911d7086c7b5d9f3...@mygate.mailgate.org>, Van Eyes
> <van...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> > The anti-Naxos dig is N/A. I suggest some Naxos recordings...just not
> > the entire catalogue
>
> Which Naxos titles do you recommend?
Recents--Messiaen Piano Vol. 4, Bax SQ 3, Barber PC, Martinu SQs 3-7.
Thomas Muething
>
> His brief stay was probably the worst conductor experience the Vancouver
> SO ever had. His behavior and music-making is well documented in John
> Becker's book, Discord--The Story of the VSO.
> I attended a few of his concerts and never found anything memorable in
> them.
Well, it IS the Vancouver SO. So much for third-tier orchestras ;-)
HenryFogel
>From: Thomas Muething tmuethingBUGGE...@t-online.de
>Date: 2/15/2003 1:44 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <3E4E988F...@t-online.de>
>
>Van Eyes wrote:
>
>>
>> His brief stay was probably the worst conductor experience the Vancouver
>> SO ever had. His behavior and music-making is well documented in John
>> Becker's book, Discord--The Story of the VSO.
>> I attended a few of his concerts and never found anything memorable in
>> them.
>
>
>Well, it IS the Vancouver SO. So much for third-tier orchestras ;-)
>
>Thomas
>
Even the cyber-wink doesn't excuse this comment. Under Akiyama for many years
the VSO sounded very fine indeed. Have you actually heard it enough over a span
of time in order to be able to form a judgement?
Henry Fogel
Thomas Muething
>
> Even the cyber-wink doesn't excuse this comment. Under Akiyama for many years
> the VSO sounded very fine indeed. Have you actually heard it enough over a span
> of time in order to be able to form a judgement?
I've got a number of CDs of Canadian music played by the Vancouver SO.
They sound OK, but no more than OK.
DSCH symphony 6
"Barshai cracks the hard nuts of DSCH." I think this was the title I was going
to give to my original post about the set. He is great in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd,
4th, 7th, 11th, and 14th symphonies. In the middle somewhere with the 6th,
8th, 10th, 12th, and 13th symphonies. And the only ones I have problems with
personally are the 5th, 9th, and 15th. The 5th is just substandard and the 9th
and 15th have slow movements that are too fast and make dramatic music sound
more trivial by being overdriven.
This is just my opinion though. I'm sure Thomas will quote me and post that I
am wrong again about the 9th, but that is only because he likes it that way and
I do not.
Fred
Thomas Muething
> This is just my opinion though. I'm sure Thomas will quote me and post that I
> am wrong again about the 9th, but that is only because he likes it that way and
> I do not.
No need. I'm just poiting out that he's trying to knock down the
Barshai/Shostky with a POSITIVE review.
Ray Hall
news:20030216034302...@mb-fz.aol.com...
Fwiw, I tend to agree with you about the 9th, and more or less your other
assessments. I was hoping to hear your opinions on the set. Dazzingly played
the 9th certainly is, but one has only to turn to Klemperer's Turin Dec 21
1956 performance of the 9th, to hear how the first movement Allegro should
be tackled. Barshai does rush it, as does Haitink, (5'16 and 4'57
respectively).
Klemperer takes a whopping 6'45, and the power of this movement comes across
as it should. Anybody who hasn't heard Klemperer's 9th on Fonit Cetra LAR
37, should. It is an absolute revelation.
Thomas Muething
> Klemperer takes a whopping 6'45, and the power of this movement comes across
> as it should.
The movement is not supposed to be powerful. It's sarcastic and witty,
and that transpires splendidly in Barshai's (and Rozhdestevensky's)
recordings.
Ray Hall
news:hkev4voftub7bct0k...@4ax.com...
| "Ray Hall" <hallr...@bigpond.com> op Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:43:39
| +1100:
|
| > Fwiw, I tend to agree with you about the 9th, and more or less your
other
| > assessments. I was hoping to hear your opinions on the set. Dazzingly
played
| > the 9th certainly is, but one has only to turn to Klemperer's Turin Dec
21
| > 1956 performance of the 9th, to hear how the first movement Allegro
should
| > be tackled. Barshai does rush it, as does Haitink, (5'16 and 4'57
| > respectively).
| >
| > Klemperer takes a whopping 6'45, and the power of this movement comes
across
| > as it should. Anybody who hasn't heard Klemperer's 9th on Fonit Cetra
LAR
| > 37, should. It is an absolute revelation.
|
| play Shostakovich? Personally I would have more confidence in someone
| like Rozhdestvensky who "rushes" the first movement of the 9th in
| 5'14".
Klemperer played a lot of modern music when younger, and he wasn't always
slow either. But unless you have heard the Klemperer DSCH 9th, I should hold
judgement. As Thomas has pointed out, even though the first movement
shouldn't be powerful (in an epic way), the droll quality of the wit comes
across very strongly in Klemperer's performance. I urge you both to at least
hear it before passing final judgement. Barshai is dazzling, yes, but all I
am saying is, is that he misses the truly droll like quality that Klemperer
brings to this movement. It really is amazing, and should be heard by all
Shosty lovers.