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Tchaikovsky. Francesca Da Rimini
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Alli...@nowhere.org
Oct 15, 2015, 9:55:42 AM10/15/15
to
wildest version heard
Gerard
Oct 15, 2015, 11:15:22 AM10/15/15
to
wrote in message news:vfOTx.286$Tm3...@fx41.am4...
wildest version heard
================
Is this a question, or did you forget to mention that version, or does your
provider not allow you to use more than 3 words??
(Stokowski or Rozhdestvensky?)
wildest version heard
================
Is this a question, or did you forget to mention that version, or does your
provider not allow you to use more than 3 words??
(Stokowski or Rozhdestvensky?)
notes...@gmail.com
Oct 15, 2015, 11:53:54 AM10/15/15
to
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 8:55:42 AM UTC-5, Alli...@nowhere.org wrote:
> wildest version heard
Charles Munch/Boston Symphony
> wildest version heard
Charles Munch/Boston Symphony
Bob Harper
Oct 15, 2015, 12:26:19 PM10/15/15
to
having heard the mentioned Munch.
Bob Harper
Ed Presson
Oct 15, 2015, 12:31:02 PM10/15/15
to
wrote in message
news:ede28a77-1aa6-42e9...@googlegroups.com...
Ed Presson
Gerard
Oct 15, 2015, 12:37:58 PM10/15/15
to
"Bob Harper" wrote in message news:IsQTx.3882$Wh7....@fx07.iad...
================
I'd say Stokowski/Everest (also on dell'Arte, but the Everest disc has
better sound).
His Philips/Decca/PentaTone recording is less wild.
I'd say Stokowski/Everest (also on dell'Arte, but the Everest disc has
better sound).
His Philips/Decca/PentaTone recording is less wild.
Alli...@nowhere.org
Oct 15, 2015, 12:45:36 PM10/15/15
to
what do you thing to the munch r p o version
mrs...@gmail.com
Oct 15, 2015, 12:47:16 PM10/15/15
to
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 3:55:42 PM UTC+2, Alli...@nowhere.org wrote:
> wildest version heard
Wildest Stokowski (Everest), preferred Mravinsky and Markevitch (DG).
> wildest version heard
Herman
Oct 15, 2015, 1:33:29 PM10/15/15
to
On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 6:45:36 PM UTC+2, Alli...@nowhere.org wrote:
> what do you thing to the munch r p o version
well, obviously, you do the thing to the munch.
> what do you thing to the munch r p o version
that gets you the wildest version.
jrsnfld
Oct 16, 2015, 3:52:06 AM10/16/15
to
I agree the Stokowski/Stadium Symphony of NY is a great "wild" choice. Mravinsky and Markevitch/Lamoureux are as good or better--they generate plenty of heat. But Stokie was born to conduct this.
The oft recommended Munch/BSO is a fabulous performance but it's so well played that even his fast paced conclusion instead sounds virtuosic and exciting, not "wild." And although Munch is the "perfect" Francesca, I can't help but preferirng Koussevitzky/BSO because not only is he more "old fashioned" and romantic with portamenti and lush tone (contrast to the bright, vivid colors of the Munch) but his well recorded live performance on Guild has perhaps the most passionate and seductively expansive love music. Munch doesn't relax the pace enough to swoon as well as Koussevitzky.
In fact, I find the gut-wrenching intensity of the live Rostropovich/Israel PO surpasses Munch as well, even though Slava is not as fast in the outer sections. This is another winning recording, not surprising from one of the great Tchaikovsky interpreters.
Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a 1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
If I had to choose one , it might be the Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov/Moscow RTV SO recording, Mravinsky, or Rostropovich, with Stokowski, Golovanov, Koussevitzky and Munch near at hand.
(I admit that I'd hate to be without these excellent versions, however: Chailly/Cleveland, Concertgebouw/Haitink, AcStCeciliaRome/Pappano, and Barbarolli/NY....Has anyone got comments on the Arvid Yansons/Tokyo SO, Svetlanov/USSR StSO, or Nelsons/BRSO recordings? I would also want to revisit Beecham, Dudamel, Bernstein(s), and Dorati/NSO)
--Jeff
Gerard
Oct 16, 2015, 4:42:09 AM10/16/15
to
"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:ffe4ebb0-834a-412b...@googlegroups.com...
Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of
orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this
with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and
passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the
Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a
1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
===============
I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I had
only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR Ministry
of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
Very good, but not very wild.
Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild one,
as fas as I remember.
A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC, Philips) -
I should have to relisten to all of them.
Where does this all leave Muti (EMI/Brilliant Classics)?
And there are other fine recordings. But not very wild.
news:ffe4ebb0-834a-412b...@googlegroups.com...
Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of
orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this
with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and
passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the
Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a
1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I had
only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR Ministry
of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
Very good, but not very wild.
Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild one,
as fas as I remember.
A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC, Philips) -
I should have to relisten to all of them.
Where does this all leave Muti (EMI/Brilliant Classics)?
And there are other fine recordings. But not very wild.
richard...@gmail.com
Oct 16, 2015, 9:05:58 AM10/16/15
to
Message has been deleted
jrsnfld
Oct 16, 2015, 1:30:24 PM10/16/15
to
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 1:42:09 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "jrsnfld" wrote in message
>
> I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR Ministry
> of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
> Very good, but not very wild.
> Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild one,
> as fas as I remember.
> A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
> I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC, Philips) -
> I should have to relisten to all of them.
Please do. I've never tried the BBC recording but the little live Markevitch I've heard can be startlingly flexible and improvisatory.
> Where does this all leave Muti (EMI/Brilliant Classics)?
> And there are other fine recordings. But not very wild.
Philadelphia/Muti is a very good one, indeed. Just revisited it this morning, thanks to your comment--Muti has a lovely way of staying focused on the long lines of the work but allowing plenty of subtle flexibility. Great solo winds--great playing throughout. Plenty of fire in the outer sections. I guess I've always resented that these EMI recordings don't have quite the richness that I remember from Philadelphia concerts of yore, but the sound is actually excellent anyway.
--Jeff
> "jrsnfld" wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of
> orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this
> with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and
> passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the
> Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a
> 1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
>
> ===============
>
> I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I had
> only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
> But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad was a filler for the Galleria CD of Shostakovich 5 with Rowicki/Warsaw PO.
>
>
> Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of
> orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this
> with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and
> passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the
> Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a
> 1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
>
> ===============
>
> I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I had
> only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
> But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
>
> I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR Ministry
> of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
> Very good, but not very wild.
> Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild one,
> as fas as I remember.
> A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
> I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC, Philips) -
> I should have to relisten to all of them.
> Where does this all leave Muti (EMI/Brilliant Classics)?
> And there are other fine recordings. But not very wild.
--Jeff
Gerard
Oct 17, 2015, 7:20:44 AM10/17/15
to
"jrsnfld" wrote in message
news:2f043dde-e1c6-4157...@googlegroups.com...
>
> I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I
> had
> only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
> But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad was a filler for the Galleria CD of Shostakovich 5
with Rowicki/Warsaw PO.
===============
Thanks. No longer availbale I suppose (couldn't find it on amazon).
Is Rowicki's 5th (Shostakovich) a recommendable recording?
------------------------
I listened to a few minutes only of the other recordings I could find. Not a
real comparison of course.
Ashkenazy (Decca)
Barbirolli (EMI)
Haitink (Philips)
Jansons (EMI)
Markevitch (BBC)
Markevitch (DG)
Markevitch (Philips)
Masur (Teldec)
Mravinsky (1983, Icone)
Ormandy (Sony - or RCA?)
Ozawa (EMI)
Pappano (EMI)
Pletnev (DG)
Rostropovitch (EMI)
Stokowski (PentaTone = Philips)
Svetlanov (Melodiya)
Some were very difficult to find (Barbirolli coupled to symphony 6 by
Giulini; Ozawa - with the Berliner! - coupled to violinconcerto by
Spivakov).
Mostly fine or (very) good recordings.
Only Masur was slightly disappointing - too low voltage.
Most impressive was Pletnev, partially because of the spectacular sound.
Rostropovitch is much better than I remembered. So is Ashkenazy.
I know, I should relisten to the Markevitch recording(s) more intensively,
but I'm tired of this piece now.
news:2f043dde-e1c6-4157...@googlegroups.com...
>
> I remember Rozhdestvensky's DG recording from the ('my') LP era, when I
> had
> only one other recording: Markevitch, also on DG.
> But I don't have it on cd (is it available? - I mean Rozhdestvensky's).
Rozhdestvensky/Leningrad was a filler for the Galleria CD of Shostakovich 5
with Rowicki/Warsaw PO.
Thanks. No longer availbale I suppose (couldn't find it on amazon).
Is Rowicki's 5th (Shostakovich) a recommendable recording?
------------------------
>
> I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR
> Ministry
> of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
> Very good, but not very wild.
> Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild
> one,
> as fas as I remember.
> A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
> I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC,
> Philips) -
> I should have to relisten to all of them.
Please do. I've never tried the BBC recording but the little live Markevitch
I've heard can be startlingly flexible and improvisatory.
=======================
> I have another recording by Rozhdestvensky, on Erato, with the USSR
> Ministry
> of Culture Symphony Orchestra (1991).
> Very good, but not very wild.
> Another recording I liked was Barbirolli (EMI) - but that's not a wild
> one,
> as fas as I remember.
> A "sleeper" is the recording by Dudarova (Olympia).
> I seem to have 3 different recordings by Markevitch now (DG, BBC,
> Philips) -
> I should have to relisten to all of them.
Please do. I've never tried the BBC recording but the little live Markevitch
I've heard can be startlingly flexible and improvisatory.
I listened to a few minutes only of the other recordings I could find. Not a
real comparison of course.
Ashkenazy (Decca)
Barbirolli (EMI)
Haitink (Philips)
Jansons (EMI)
Markevitch (BBC)
Markevitch (DG)
Markevitch (Philips)
Masur (Teldec)
Mravinsky (1983, Icone)
Ormandy (Sony - or RCA?)
Ozawa (EMI)
Pappano (EMI)
Pletnev (DG)
Rostropovitch (EMI)
Stokowski (PentaTone = Philips)
Svetlanov (Melodiya)
Some were very difficult to find (Barbirolli coupled to symphony 6 by
Giulini; Ozawa - with the Berliner! - coupled to violinconcerto by
Spivakov).
Mostly fine or (very) good recordings.
Only Masur was slightly disappointing - too low voltage.
Most impressive was Pletnev, partially because of the spectacular sound.
Rostropovitch is much better than I remembered. So is Ashkenazy.
I know, I should relisten to the Markevitch recording(s) more intensively,
but I'm tired of this piece now.
Alli...@nowhere.org
Oct 17, 2015, 10:53:05 AM10/17/15
to
you can listen to Rowicki Shostakovich: Symphony No.5 here Gerard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQDjo_mXWDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UQkvVrkM7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUavnfXiow4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow-4wqpWKsg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQDjo_mXWDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UQkvVrkM7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUavnfXiow4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow-4wqpWKsg
Gerard
Oct 17, 2015, 12:41:47 PM10/17/15
to
wrote in message news:ihtUx.48532$VS4....@fx42.am4...
Thanks.
Regrettably these videos are not availabe (in the Netherlands).
Gerard
Oct 17, 2015, 1:17:52 PM10/17/15
to
"Gerard" wrote in message
news:9750d$56222f08$546845b9$65...@news.ziggo.nl...
===============================
OMG, a major omission: GIULINI !!!
In his "wild" years (1962 or 1963), with the Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI).
Very intense (like Pletnev, but Giulini is "wilder" of course).
I have this recording on a twofer of French EMI "Musiques Russes". With
Hamlet conducted by Matacic,
Romeo and Julia conducted by Markevitch, and with other pieces conducted by
Silvestri, Cluytens, Karajan, Mackerras and Malko.
Giulini's recording probably is still available on this twofer:
http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Juliet-Francesca-Rimini/dp/B0007RO570/
BWT There's a recording by Gergiev (can be seen on Youtube). Is there only
one by him?
news:9750d$56222f08$546845b9$65...@news.ziggo.nl...
OMG, a major omission: GIULINI !!!
In his "wild" years (1962 or 1963), with the Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI).
Very intense (like Pletnev, but Giulini is "wilder" of course).
I have this recording on a twofer of French EMI "Musiques Russes". With
Hamlet conducted by Matacic,
Romeo and Julia conducted by Markevitch, and with other pieces conducted by
Silvestri, Cluytens, Karajan, Mackerras and Malko.
Giulini's recording probably is still available on this twofer:
http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Juliet-Francesca-Rimini/dp/B0007RO570/
BWT There's a recording by Gergiev (can be seen on Youtube). Is there only
one by him?
Gerard
Oct 17, 2015, 3:47:31 PM10/17/15
to
A performance of Francesca da Rimini you might like on Youtube is the one by
Manuel López-Gómez / "Teresa Carreño" Youth Symphony Orchestra
part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vimYyQkBWk
part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXwk8Dp_HBE
part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMdXSMiUeE
Randy Lane
Oct 17, 2015, 4:19:46 PM10/17/15
to
You mention a name. Too bad there isn't a Silvestri Francesca.
Gerard
Oct 17, 2015, 4:53:00 PM10/17/15
to
wrote in message news:vfOTx.286$Tm3...@fx41.am4...
wildest version heard
=======================
wildest version heard
A wild version I have NOT heard: Temirkanov.
"" The Francesca is almost too superheated. Listen at 21.15 to the brass
statements stuttered out with such powerful emphasis. When the strings
whirlwind at the end comes the orchestra play as if possessed by the devil
called Legion who drove the Gadarene swine to their deaths. After this the
classic Stokowski version seems almost serene. ""
from:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Jan04/Tchaikovsky_termikanov.htm
There's also a very recent recording by Vasily Petrenko / not heard:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2015/Jul/Tchaikovsky_Petrenko_CFMD38.htm
jrsnfld
Oct 17, 2015, 9:17:22 PM10/17/15
to
On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 1:53:00 PM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> wrote in message news:vfOTx.286$Tm3...@fx41.am4...
>
> wildest version heard
>
> =======================
>
> A wild version I have NOT heard: Temirkanov.
>
> "" The Francesca is almost too superheated. Listen at 21.15 to the brass
> statements stuttered out with such powerful emphasis. When the strings
> whirlwind at the end comes the orchestra play as if possessed by the devil
> called Legion who drove the Gadarene swine to their deaths. After this the
> classic Stokowski version seems almost serene. ""
>
> from:
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Jan04/Tchaikovsky_termikanov.htm
>
I'm not sure what Rob Barnett was thinking when he wrote that review. The Temirkanov/RPO is quite slow and plodding, but romantic and personal enough to be decent. The fast passages go at a good clip, but not really "wild" any more than most recordings.
> wrote in message news:vfOTx.286$Tm3...@fx41.am4...
>
> wildest version heard
>
> =======================
>
> A wild version I have NOT heard: Temirkanov.
>
> "" The Francesca is almost too superheated. Listen at 21.15 to the brass
> statements stuttered out with such powerful emphasis. When the strings
> whirlwind at the end comes the orchestra play as if possessed by the devil
> called Legion who drove the Gadarene swine to their deaths. After this the
> classic Stokowski version seems almost serene. ""
>
> from:
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Jan04/Tchaikovsky_termikanov.htm
>
Maybe the big tempo contrasts are what made him think it so exciting to finally get it over with at the end. That and maybe the digital recording gives it an advantage--all that pounding saturates the tape at the end of the Stokowski.
Otherwise, Stokowski is preferable--the color he gets from the is more vivid and the Stadium Symphony is up to the challenge, although the playing by the RPO is quite clean (if not the last word in refined color and sumptuousness). I wouldn't take Temirkanov as a top choice.
Makes me wonder if Rob's oft repeated opinion that the ultimate Francesca was a spectacular Ahronovitch/LSO concert from September 1978 is a bit exaggerated as well (he remembers the coupling wrong, it seems--the program shows Tchaikovsky 4 in the second half, not Manfred).
--Jeff
jrsnfld
Oct 17, 2015, 9:18:10 PM10/17/15
to
On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 1:19:46 PM UTC-7, Randy Lane wrote:
> You mention a name. Too bad there isn't a Silvestri Francesca.
Except if there were, he'd probably make a cut or monkey around with some of the important rhythms. Not sure I should trust Silvestri--except to make it exciting, of course.
> You mention a name. Too bad there isn't a Silvestri Francesca.
--Jeff
jrsnfld
Oct 17, 2015, 9:30:56 PM10/17/15
to
On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 10:17:52 AM UTC-7, Gerard wrote:
> "Gerard" wrote in message
>
> OMG, a major omission: GIULINI !!!
>
> In his "wild" years (1962 or 1963), with the Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI).
> Very intense (like Pletnev, but Giulini is "wilder" of course).
>
> I have this recording on a twofer of French EMI "Musiques Russes". With
> Hamlet conducted by Matacic,
> Romeo and Julia conducted by Markevitch, and with other pieces conducted by
> Silvestri, Cluytens, Karajan, Mackerras and Malko.
>
> Giulini's recording probably is still available on this twofer:
> http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Juliet-Francesca-Rimini/dp/B0007RO570/
I missed that one, indeed. Just listened to the first few notes, surprisingly smudged compared to the clarity of Fedoseyev and Gergiev. I'll have to give Giulini more time when I have it.
>
> BWT There's a recording by Gergiev (can be seen on Youtube). Is there only
> one by him?
Don't know any others. It's very good--beautifully phrased, nice orchestral colors (more refined than Temirkanov, that's for sure!!). LPO in top form, nice spacious acoustic. Good tempo contrasts. Vintage Gergiev, overall.
--Jeff
> "Gerard" wrote in message
>
> OMG, a major omission: GIULINI !!!
>
> In his "wild" years (1962 or 1963), with the Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI).
> Very intense (like Pletnev, but Giulini is "wilder" of course).
>
> I have this recording on a twofer of French EMI "Musiques Russes". With
> Hamlet conducted by Matacic,
> Romeo and Julia conducted by Markevitch, and with other pieces conducted by
> Silvestri, Cluytens, Karajan, Mackerras and Malko.
>
> Giulini's recording probably is still available on this twofer:
> http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Symphonies-Juliet-Francesca-Rimini/dp/B0007RO570/
>
> BWT There's a recording by Gergiev (can be seen on Youtube). Is there only
> one by him?
--Jeff
Sol L. Siegel
Oct 17, 2015, 10:13:47 PM10/17/15
to
<Alli...@nowhere.org> wrote in news:vfOTx.286$Tm3...@fx41.am4:
> wildest version heard
Has no one here heard Beecham?
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
> wildest version heard
Has no one here heard Beecham?
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
jrsnfld
Oct 18, 2015, 3:16:58 AM10/18/15
to
On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 7:13:47 PM UTC-7, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> > wildest version heard
>
> Has no one here heard Beecham?
Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20 min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
> > wildest version heard
>
> Has no one here heard Beecham?
There's plenty of elegance and beauty in the love music, and while the emphasis is not on excitement at first, the ending is a rousing damnation, relatively quick.
The Maazel/New Philharmonia recording is another that closes pretty fast, with at least as much wildness as Beecham. Overall it's a more modern, more "objective" take to the phrasing of the music but like many Maazel recordings, the virtuosity and clarity are the principal features. It's also quite beautifully done in the love music. In general Maazel upholds his reputation for being distinctively good in Tchaikovsky.
--Jeff
Kerrison
Oct 18, 2015, 5:28:50 PM10/18/15
to
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 3:13:47 AM UTC+1, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>
> Has no one here heard Beecham?
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
It's on You Tube at the click of a key ...
>
> Has no one here heard Beecham?
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8sj9trtzSo
Kerrison
Oct 18, 2015, 6:51:09 PM10/18/15
to
>
> Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20 min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
>
> There's plenty of elegance and beauty in the love music, and while the emphasis is not on excitement at first, the ending is a rousing damnation, relatively quick.
>
>
Beecham astonishingly cuts out the entire 'storm music' section at 4 minutes in from the start (ie: in the aforementioned You Tube upload) and goes straight to the 'love music' episode in the centre of the piece. Luckily the reappearance of the 'storm music' towards the end isn't cut. Maybe Beecham thought we didn't need to hear it through twice. Pity, as he does it sensationally well.
Sol L. Siegel
Oct 19, 2015, 11:01:19 PM10/19/15
to
jrsnfld <jrs...@aol.com> wrote in
news:9a3cf944-d717-438e...@googlegroups.com:
> Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
The timing on my EMI Beecham Edition copy is 23:42. I suppose I'll have
to listen to it again, though.
Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
news:9a3cf944-d717-438e...@googlegroups.com:
> Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
to listen to it again, though.
Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
jrsnfld
Oct 19, 2015, 11:37:16 PM10/19/15
to
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 8:01:19 PM UTC-7, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> jrsnfld wrote in
>
> Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
Yes.
--Jeff
> jrsnfld wrote in
>
> > Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> > min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
>
>
> The timing on my EMI Beecham Edition copy is 23:42. I suppose I'll have
> to listen to it again, though.
>
> Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
>
> The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
Try to search YT for "Beecham Francesca" and you'll find the butchered track that one gets as an mp3 from Amazon, courtesy of some fly-by-night company. However...I'm sure the EMI disc is complete, as is the Arkadia CD of the same. I'll have to listen again to that version.
> > Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> > min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
>
>
> The timing on my EMI Beecham Edition copy is 23:42. I suppose I'll have
> to listen to it again, though.
>
> Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
>
> The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
>
> Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
--Jeff
Frank Berger
Oct 19, 2015, 11:49:42 PM10/19/15
to
Kerrison
Oct 20, 2015, 12:34:14 AM10/20/15
to
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 4:01:19 AM UTC+1, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
>
>
>
> > Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> > min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
>
>
> The timing on my EMI Beecham Edition copy is 23:42. I suppose I'll have
> to listen to it again, though.
>
> Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
>
> The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
>
> Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
The YT link I posted before still works perfectly for me, with the timing stating 19:29 under the video.
>
>
>
> > Does Beecham take a significant cut? ..His total timing is under 20
> > min. but the tempi are not extraordinarily fast anywhere.
>
>
> The timing on my EMI Beecham Edition copy is 23:42. I suppose I'll have
> to listen to it again, though.
>
> Perhaps there's more than one. Mine was recorded in 1939.
>
> The YouTube link cited by Kerrison no longer works.
>
> Stokowski's NYPO recording, BTW, is butchered.
>
> - Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
John Hunt's Beecham discography, in his "Musical Knights," gives December 1939 as Sir Thomas's LPO version being his only commercial recording of the work. If there was one lasting 23:42 maybe Hunt missed it, or was there another performance that EMI discovered and issued?
Stokowski did omit repeated bars in the 'whirlwind' episodes in his 1947 78rpm NYPO recording of 'Francesca' but reinstated them for his later New York Stadium Orchestra and LSO versions. But there was a time when 'butchering' Tchaikovsky was not uncommon, witness Toscanini's 5-minute cut of over 100 bars in the finale of 'Manfred.'
Sol L. Siegel
Oct 20, 2015, 11:45:28 AM10/20/15
to
ways
Oct 22, 2015, 4:08:05 AM10/22/15
to
is this the full version edited from two version i found on you tube
Francesca da Rimini (Tchaikovsky) LPO Sir Thomas Beecham
https://mega.nz/#!1EoEUaaC!odbqjgxWE6SfFNtxI_AZ07BR6mULRWk9Q5mpWLP0Vxo
Francesca da Rimini (Tchaikovsky) LPO Sir Thomas Beecham
https://mega.nz/#!1EoEUaaC!odbqjgxWE6SfFNtxI_AZ07BR6mULRWk9Q5mpWLP0Vxo
Kerrison
Oct 22, 2015, 9:49:48 AM10/22/15
to
Gerard
Oct 24, 2015, 5:58:17 PM10/24/15
to
wrote in message news:NKQTx.14012$y74....@fx44.am4...
what do you thing to the munch r p o version
=================
I'ld like to know as well.
It's on Chesky:
http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Symphony-Tchaikovsky-Francesca-Overture-Fantasia/dp/B000003GCS
Some of the reviewers say it's a fraud.
Or is his BSO version to be preferred?
what do you thing to the munch r p o version
=================
I'ld like to know as well.
It's on Chesky:
http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Symphony-Tchaikovsky-Francesca-Overture-Fantasia/dp/B000003GCS
Some of the reviewers say it's a fraud.
Or is his BSO version to be preferred?
Alli...@nowhere.org
Oct 25, 2015, 2:20:31 AM10/25/15
to
available over on SYMPHONYSHARE
Jerry
Oct 25, 2015, 11:29:02 AM10/25/15
to
fraud." Can you be more specific about the type of fraud
suspected? (Another conductor? Heavily spliced or edited
recording? etc.)
I tried to check some additional references and note that the
book "Charles Munch - un chef d'orchestre dans le siecle,"
edited by Genevieve Honegger (Strasbourg 1992 - in French)
notes that Munch recorded the Bizet Symphony with the RPO
in April 1963 but doesn't mention the Tchaikovsky.
For certain, the Munch BSO Francesca and Romeo & Juliet (1956)
remains one of the most vibrant recordings from the early
stereo LP era never (to the best of my knowledge) to have been
officially released on RedBook CDs. The R&J is (again, to the
best of my understanding) consistently passed over by RCA in
favor of yet another re-issue of the later 1961 effort.
Jerry
Norman Schwartz
Oct 25, 2015, 12:25:00 PM10/25/15
to
Jerry wrote:
> For certain, the Munch BSO Francesca and Romeo & Juliet (1956)
> remains one of the most vibrant recordings from the early
> stereo LP era never (to the best of my knowledge) to have been
> officially released on RedBook CDs. The R&J is (again, to the
> best of my understanding) consistently passed over by RCA in
> favor of yet another re-issue of the later 1961 effort.
>
FYI the 1956 Munch/BSO Francesca is contained in the 'Charles Munch: Late
> For certain, the Munch BSO Francesca and Romeo & Juliet (1956)
> remains one of the most vibrant recordings from the early
> stereo LP era never (to the best of my knowledge) to have been
> officially released on RedBook CDs. The R&J is (again, to the
> best of my understanding) consistently passed over by RCA in
> favor of yet another re-issue of the later 1961 effort.
>
Romantic Masterpieces' Box .
> Jerry
Gerard
Oct 25, 2015, 12:33:15 PM10/25/15
to
"Jerry" wrote in message
news:538e9283-79e5-4f64...@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 5:58:17 PM UTC-4, Gerard wrote:
> wrote in message news:NKQTx.14012$y74....@fx44.am4...
>
> what do you thing to the munch r p o version
>
> =================
>
> I'ld like to know as well.
> It's on Chesky:
> http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Symphony-Tchaikovsky-Francesca-Overture-Fantasia/dp/B000003GCS
>
> Some of the reviewers say it's a fraud.
>
> Or is his BSO version to be preferred?
I'm intrigued by the assertion that "some reviewers say it's a
fraud." Can you be more specific about the type of fraud
suspected? (Another conductor? Heavily spliced or edited
recording? etc.)
========================
See the reviews on that amazon page.
One of them:
"" But imagine my horror as I heard the same Rachmaninov pieces that a
3-year old buyer (electra) revealed in his1-star review.""
Another:
""I bought three times this CD from three different countries (USA, France,
England) and each time the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff's fourth piano
concerto played by Earl Wild with Jascha Horenstein conducting the RPO. The
label on the CD is ok with the mention of Charles Munch conducting the RPO
but THREE TIMES the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff recording with the Charles
Munch name on the label ! I wrote to Chesky at New York with the three wrong
CDs returned to them... but any answer after one year! NOT ONE SERIOUS
RECORDING COMPANY and any consideration for the music-lovers who bought this
wrong Chesky CD.""
news:538e9283-79e5-4f64...@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 5:58:17 PM UTC-4, Gerard wrote:
> wrote in message news:NKQTx.14012$y74....@fx44.am4...
>
> what do you thing to the munch r p o version
>
> =================
>
> I'ld like to know as well.
> It's on Chesky:
> http://www.amazon.com/Bizet-Symphony-Tchaikovsky-Francesca-Overture-Fantasia/dp/B000003GCS
>
> Some of the reviewers say it's a fraud.
>
> Or is his BSO version to be preferred?
I'm intrigued by the assertion that "some reviewers say it's a
fraud." Can you be more specific about the type of fraud
suspected? (Another conductor? Heavily spliced or edited
recording? etc.)
See the reviews on that amazon page.
One of them:
"" But imagine my horror as I heard the same Rachmaninov pieces that a
3-year old buyer (electra) revealed in his1-star review.""
Another:
""I bought three times this CD from three different countries (USA, France,
England) and each time the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff's fourth piano
concerto played by Earl Wild with Jascha Horenstein conducting the RPO. The
label on the CD is ok with the mention of Charles Munch conducting the RPO
but THREE TIMES the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff recording with the Charles
Munch name on the label ! I wrote to Chesky at New York with the three wrong
CDs returned to them... but any answer after one year! NOT ONE SERIOUS
RECORDING COMPANY and any consideration for the music-lovers who bought this
wrong Chesky CD.""
Jerry
Oct 25, 2015, 12:49:54 PM10/25/15
to
I had forgotten about the Francesca in the RCA Box. They still missed
a golden opportunity to re-issue the earlier R&J.
It's also good to know about the presumed pressing plant screw-up
on the Chesky disc.
I had encountered this sort of thing twice before with discs from
Koss and ProArte. The CD labels were correct but the CDs themselves
contained, respectively, some rock music and a data CD-ROM of part
of an encyclopedia. So, I assume the pressing plant was at fault.
Still, CD pressing faults are relatively rare (aside from the
PDO-UK bronzing affair).
In the LP era, returning faulty discs was relatively common.
I still recall returning an RCA disc (the second Reiner Zarathustra)
to Sam Goody on W. 49th St. because of an eccentric center hole
only to find every other copy in their batch* had the same fault.
Jerry
* For those who never had the pleasure of shopping at the original
Goody's, they usually had a good number of copies of most items in
stock.
Kerrison
Oct 25, 2015, 2:54:29 PM10/25/15
to
I'm also puzzled by certain critics' assertion that the Munch / RPO "Francesca" is a "fraud." I've just taken down from the shelf the 8-LP 'Readers Digest' Box devoted to Tchaikovsky (Catalog No. GTCH-8A) and LP No. 7 contains the aforementioned Munch recording on side 1. Assorted shorter pieces on side 2 feature Charles Gerhardt (the RD producer), Sir Malcolm Sargent, Earl Wild and Massimo Freccia.
An on-line 'Readers Digest Discography' has evidently passed these "critics" by but Munch recorded "Francesca" with the RPO on 5 April 1963 (prod. Gerhardt, eng. Kenneth Wilkinson) in Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London. It was followed a few days later by the Bizet Symphony in C with which the Tchaikovsky was originally coupled in various LP and CD formats.
The RD Discography / Decca listing is in recording date order, so you have to scroll down a few screens for confirmation of the above ...
http://images.cch.kcl.ac.uk/charm/liv/pubs/DeccaComplete.pdf
An on-line 'Readers Digest Discography' has evidently passed these "critics" by but Munch recorded "Francesca" with the RPO on 5 April 1963 (prod. Gerhardt, eng. Kenneth Wilkinson) in Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London. It was followed a few days later by the Bizet Symphony in C with which the Tchaikovsky was originally coupled in various LP and CD formats.
The RD Discography / Decca listing is in recording date order, so you have to scroll down a few screens for confirmation of the above ...
http://images.cch.kcl.ac.uk/charm/liv/pubs/DeccaComplete.pdf
Frank Berger
Oct 25, 2015, 9:44:06 PM10/25/15
to
recorded by Decca. I'm not sure how many non-Decca RD
recordings there were, but I've got several RD releases that
aren't in that list.
Kerrison
Oct 26, 2015, 4:40:26 AM10/26/15
to
The RD Discography covers those recordings made in London that were produced by Charles Gerhardt. There is an interesting article about him, along with photos taken at the RD sessions, link down below. The conductors he engaged not only included Munch (who is pictured at one of the RPO sessions) but also Dorati, Barbirolli, Kempe, Horenstein, Sargent, Boult, and so on, many of whom made some of their finest recordings for RD. As far as I know, these were never officially reviewed at the time but nevertheless contain some real treasures, superbly recorded too.
http://www.classicalcdreview.com/cgrebweb.html
Gerard
Oct 26, 2015, 7:54:06 AM10/26/15
to
"Jerry" wrote in message
news:5a35d0bd-811e-4d18...@googlegroups.com...
It's also good to know about the presumed pressing plant screw-up
on the Chesky disc.
I had encountered this sort of thing twice before with discs from
Koss and ProArte. The CD labels were correct but the CDs themselves
contained, respectively, some rock music and a data CD-ROM of part
of an encyclopedia. So, I assume the pressing plant was at fault.
===============
I've experienced this once with a cd by Channel Classics: Debussy piano
works recorded by Jos van Immerseel.
On the disc itself the text was clear: Debussy, piano works, Immerseel.
However, the music was some kind of pop music.
I wrote to Channel Classics about their error.
Channel Classics blamed .... the store where I've bought the disc.
Other experiences (twice) were with Brilliant Classics.
Sending one e-mail was enough: Brilliant Classics delivered replacing discs
by return of mail, without asking any questions.
news:5a35d0bd-811e-4d18...@googlegroups.com...
It's also good to know about the presumed pressing plant screw-up
on the Chesky disc.
I had encountered this sort of thing twice before with discs from
Koss and ProArte. The CD labels were correct but the CDs themselves
contained, respectively, some rock music and a data CD-ROM of part
of an encyclopedia. So, I assume the pressing plant was at fault.
I've experienced this once with a cd by Channel Classics: Debussy piano
works recorded by Jos van Immerseel.
On the disc itself the text was clear: Debussy, piano works, Immerseel.
However, the music was some kind of pop music.
I wrote to Channel Classics about their error.
Channel Classics blamed .... the store where I've bought the disc.
Other experiences (twice) were with Brilliant Classics.
Sending one e-mail was enough: Brilliant Classics delivered replacing discs
by return of mail, without asking any questions.
Gerard
Oct 26, 2015, 7:57:41 AM10/26/15
to
"Kerrison" wrote in message
news:d94beba2-0fc2-449f...@googlegroups.com...
I'm also puzzled by certain critics' assertion that the Munch / RPO
"Francesca" is a "fraud." I've just taken down from the shelf the 8-LP
'Readers Digest' Box devoted to Tchaikovsky (Catalog No. GTCH-8A) and LP No.
7 contains the aforementioned Munch recording on side 1.
===================
I'ld like to know what the opinions are about that Francesca recording by
Munch, compared to his BSO recording on RCA.
news:d94beba2-0fc2-449f...@googlegroups.com...
I'm also puzzled by certain critics' assertion that the Munch / RPO
"Francesca" is a "fraud." I've just taken down from the shelf the 8-LP
'Readers Digest' Box devoted to Tchaikovsky (Catalog No. GTCH-8A) and LP No.
7 contains the aforementioned Munch recording on side 1.
I'ld like to know what the opinions are about that Francesca recording by
Munch, compared to his BSO recording on RCA.
Frank Berger
Oct 26, 2015, 10:52:41 AM10/26/15
to
On 10/26/2015 4:40 AM, Kerrison wrote:
> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 1:44:06 AM UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 10/25/2015 2:54 PM, Kerrison wrote:
>>> I'm also puzzled by certain critics' assertion that the Munch / RPO "Francesca" is a "fraud." I've just taken down from the shelf the 8-LP 'Readers Digest' Box devoted to Tchaikovsky (Catalog No. GTCH-8A) and LP No. 7 contains the aforementioned Munch recording on side 1. Assorted shorter pieces on side 2 feature Charles Gerhardt (the RD producer), Sir Malcolm Sargent, Earl Wild and Massimo Freccia.
>>>
>>> An on-line 'Readers Digest Discography' has evidently passed these "critics" by but Munch recorded "Francesca" with the RPO on 5 April 1963 (prod. Gerhardt, eng. Kenneth Wilkinson) in Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London. It was followed a few days later by the Bizet Symphony in C with which the Tchaikovsky was originally coupled in various LP and CD formats.
>>>
>>> The RD Discography / Decca listing is in recording date order, so you have to scroll down a few screens for confirmation of the above ...
>>>
>>> http://images.cch.kcl.ac.uk/charm/liv/pubs/DeccaComplete.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think this contains only those RD releases that were
>> recorded by Decca. I'm not sure how many non-Decca RD
>> recordings there were, but I've got several RD releases that
>> aren't in that list.
>
>
>
> That's true because I too have a 3-CD RD set devoted to Bach which includes the Brandenburg Concertos played by the Wurttemberg Chamber Orchestra conducted by Jorg Faerber in recordings licensed from Vox / Turnabout.
>
I have that as well. I've never been able to determine the
> On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 1:44:06 AM UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 10/25/2015 2:54 PM, Kerrison wrote:
>>> I'm also puzzled by certain critics' assertion that the Munch / RPO "Francesca" is a "fraud." I've just taken down from the shelf the 8-LP 'Readers Digest' Box devoted to Tchaikovsky (Catalog No. GTCH-8A) and LP No. 7 contains the aforementioned Munch recording on side 1. Assorted shorter pieces on side 2 feature Charles Gerhardt (the RD producer), Sir Malcolm Sargent, Earl Wild and Massimo Freccia.
>>>
>>> An on-line 'Readers Digest Discography' has evidently passed these "critics" by but Munch recorded "Francesca" with the RPO on 5 April 1963 (prod. Gerhardt, eng. Kenneth Wilkinson) in Walthamstow Assembly Hall, London. It was followed a few days later by the Bizet Symphony in C with which the Tchaikovsky was originally coupled in various LP and CD formats.
>>>
>>> The RD Discography / Decca listing is in recording date order, so you have to scroll down a few screens for confirmation of the above ...
>>>
>>> http://images.cch.kcl.ac.uk/charm/liv/pubs/DeccaComplete.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think this contains only those RD releases that were
>> recorded by Decca. I'm not sure how many non-Decca RD
>> recordings there were, but I've got several RD releases that
>> aren't in that list.
>
>
>
> That's true because I too have a 3-CD RD set devoted to Bach which includes the Brandenburg Concertos played by the Wurttemberg Chamber Orchestra conducted by Jorg Faerber in recordings licensed from Vox / Turnabout.
>
recording dates (the year would do) for those recordings nor
for the Gerhardt Bach recordings released on RD.
Norman Schwartz
Oct 26, 2015, 11:00:47 AM10/26/15
to
richard...@gmail.com
Oct 26, 2015, 11:50:17 AM10/26/15
to
Alex Brown
Oct 27, 2015, 3:49:11 AM10/27/15
to
On 15/10/2015 14:55, Alli...@nowhere.org wrote:
> wildest version heard
>
London SO/Markevitch live from the 1962 Edinburgh Festival on BBC Legends.
On first hearing this I exclaimed "fucking hell!" - which, on
reflection, was kind of apt.
--
- Alex Brown
> wildest version heard
>
London SO/Markevitch live from the 1962 Edinburgh Festival on BBC Legends.
On first hearing this I exclaimed "fucking hell!" - which, on
reflection, was kind of apt.
--
- Alex Brown
Kerrison
Oct 27, 2015, 8:52:48 AM10/27/15
to
Here is the Munch / RPO Readers Digest version of 1963 which some kind soul with more technical ability than me might like to upload to a file-sharing site ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mtzspjomiyd6mc9/Tchaikovsky%20Francesca%20Munch%20RPO%201963%20RD.wma?dl=0
Particularly noticeable here is the dramatic use of the tam-tam, whereas on the Boston recording it is barely audible. It also sounds as if Gerhardt had boosted the RPO horn section with a couple of extra players.
Munch's Boston recording is on You Tube in two uploads ..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nNnK63uwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij4RLsxXFGA
Gerard
Oct 27, 2015, 12:01:46 PM10/27/15
to
"Kerrison" wrote in message
news:e7bfd7bf-43d8-4f09...@googlegroups.com...
Here is the Munch / RPO Readers Digest version of 1963 which some kind soul
with more technical ability than me might like to upload to a file-sharing
site ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mtzspjomiyd6mc9/Tchaikovsky%20Francesca%20Munch%20RPO%201963%20RD.wma?dl=0
Particularly noticeable here is the dramatic use of the tam-tam, whereas on
the Boston recording it is barely audible. It also sounds as if Gerhardt had
boosted the RPO horn section with a couple of extra players.
================
Thanks.
news:e7bfd7bf-43d8-4f09...@googlegroups.com...
Here is the Munch / RPO Readers Digest version of 1963 which some kind soul
with more technical ability than me might like to upload to a file-sharing
site ...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mtzspjomiyd6mc9/Tchaikovsky%20Francesca%20Munch%20RPO%201963%20RD.wma?dl=0
Particularly noticeable here is the dramatic use of the tam-tam, whereas on
the Boston recording it is barely audible. It also sounds as if Gerhardt had
boosted the RPO horn section with a couple of extra players.
Thanks.
Norman Schwartz
Oct 27, 2015, 1:18:28 PM10/27/15
to
right! :-))
richard...@gmail.com
Oct 29, 2015, 7:44:52 PM10/29/15
to
On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 9:05:58 AM UTC-4, richard...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 3:52:06 AM UTC-4, jrsnfld wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 9:47:16 AM UTC-7, mrs...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Of course if "wild" is the criterion, shouldn't we be recommending Golovanov above all?
> >
> > I agree the Stokowski/Stadium Symphony of NY is a great "wild" choice. Mravinsky and Markevitch/Lamoureux are as good or better--they generate plenty of heat. But Stokie was born to conduct this.
> >
> > The oft recommended Munch/BSO is a fabulous performance but it's so well played that even his fast paced conclusion instead sounds virtuosic and exciting, not "wild." And although Munch is the "perfect" Francesca, I can't help but preferirng Koussevitzky/BSO because not only is he more "old fashioned" and romantic with portamenti and lush tone (contrast to the bright, vivid colors of the Munch) but his well recorded live performance on Guild has perhaps the most passionate and seductively expansive love music. Munch doesn't relax the pace enough to swoon as well as Koussevitzky.
> >
> > In fact, I find the gut-wrenching intensity of the live Rostropovich/Israel PO surpasses Munch as well, even though Slava is not as fast in the outer sections. This is another winning recording, not surprising from one of the great Tchaikovsky interpreters.
> >
> > Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a 1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
> >
> > If I had to choose one , it might be the Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov/Moscow RTV SO recording, Mravinsky, or Rostropovich, with Stokowski, Golovanov, Koussevitzky and Munch near at hand.
> >
> > (I admit that I'd hate to be without these excellent versions, however: Chailly/Cleveland, Concertgebouw/Haitink, AcStCeciliaRome/Pappano, and Barbarolli/NY....Has anyone got comments on the Arvid Yansons/Tokyo SO, Svetlanov/USSR StSO, or Nelsons/BRSO recordings? I would also want to revisit Beecham, Dudamel, Bernstein(s), and Dorati/NSO)
> >
> > --Jeff
>
> Svetlanov (1970) is his usual passionate self, though he does not outdo Albert Coates (EMI Great Condustors of C20), or Golovanov. The sound is much better of course. Svetlanov also recorded with the State Symphony Orchestra of Russia on Canyon, where the sound is much better yet but he takes 2 minutes longer.
I have to reorder these recordings. I listened to Golovanov, Svetlanov, Coates electric and Coates acoustic. Golovanov and Svetlanov are very restrained compared to Coates, Of these Svetlanov has much the best sound on a Canyon disc, but the performance on Melodiya is better.
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 3:52:06 AM UTC-4, jrsnfld wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 9:47:16 AM UTC-7, mrs...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 3:55:42 PM UTC+2, Alli...@nowhere.org wrote:
> > > > wildest version heard
> > >
> > > Wildest Stokowski (Everest), preferred Mravinsky and Markevitch (DG).
> > > > wildest version heard
> > >
> >
> > Of course if "wild" is the criterion, shouldn't we be recommending Golovanov above all?
> >
> > I agree the Stokowski/Stadium Symphony of NY is a great "wild" choice. Mravinsky and Markevitch/Lamoureux are as good or better--they generate plenty of heat. But Stokie was born to conduct this.
> >
> > The oft recommended Munch/BSO is a fabulous performance but it's so well played that even his fast paced conclusion instead sounds virtuosic and exciting, not "wild." And although Munch is the "perfect" Francesca, I can't help but preferirng Koussevitzky/BSO because not only is he more "old fashioned" and romantic with portamenti and lush tone (contrast to the bright, vivid colors of the Munch) but his well recorded live performance on Guild has perhaps the most passionate and seductively expansive love music. Munch doesn't relax the pace enough to swoon as well as Koussevitzky.
> >
> > In fact, I find the gut-wrenching intensity of the live Rostropovich/Israel PO surpasses Munch as well, even though Slava is not as fast in the outer sections. This is another winning recording, not surprising from one of the great Tchaikovsky interpreters.
> >
> > Usually Rozhdestvensky is extremely colorful, wringing out nuances of orchestra that accentuate the character of the music. Sometimes he does this with very slow tempi and almost neutral emotion. But often he's exciting and passionate, and he gets that just right in his Francesca da Rimini with the Leningrad PO on DG and almost as well with the Moscow Radio Orchestra in a 1966 Royal Albert Hall performance on Intaglio.
> >
> > If I had to choose one , it might be the Vyacheslav Ovchinnikov/Moscow RTV SO recording, Mravinsky, or Rostropovich, with Stokowski, Golovanov, Koussevitzky and Munch near at hand.
> >
> > (I admit that I'd hate to be without these excellent versions, however: Chailly/Cleveland, Concertgebouw/Haitink, AcStCeciliaRome/Pappano, and Barbarolli/NY....Has anyone got comments on the Arvid Yansons/Tokyo SO, Svetlanov/USSR StSO, or Nelsons/BRSO recordings? I would also want to revisit Beecham, Dudamel, Bernstein(s), and Dorati/NSO)
> >
> > --Jeff
>
> Svetlanov (1970) is his usual passionate self, though he does not outdo Albert Coates (EMI Great Condustors of C20), or Golovanov. The sound is much better of course. Svetlanov also recorded with the State Symphony Orchestra of Russia on Canyon, where the sound is much better yet but he takes 2 minutes longer.
I have to reorder these recordings. I listened to Golovanov, Svetlanov, Coates electric and Coates acoustic. Golovanov and Svetlanov are very restrained compared to Coates, Of these Svetlanov has much the best sound on a Canyon disc, but the performance on Melodiya is better.
ways
Nov 8, 2015, 10:32:29 AM11/8/15
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here is one from an old cassette of a live performance by Stokowski from 1964
https://mega.nz/#!IIAVla6D!AnBGUJe3DCZibo8XGFooT15-ELiW4NikPNsvSGgi4y0
https://mega.nz/#!IIAVla6D!AnBGUJe3DCZibo8XGFooT15-ELiW4NikPNsvSGgi4y0
Kerrison
Nov 8, 2015, 2:38:17 PM11/8/15
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On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 3:32:29 PM UTC, ways wrote:
> here is one from an old cassette of a live performance by Stokowski from 1964
>
>
> https://mega.nz/#!IIAVla6D!AnBGUJe3DCZibo8XGFooT15-ELiW4NikPNsvSGgi4y0
That was from one of his two 1964 BBC Proms concerts in the packed Royal Albert Hall. Thanks for the download! Even though he makes the same excisions of repeated bars in the whirlwind episodes, it's still a pretty wild performance. Interestingly, for his two stereo recordings (Everest and Philips) he played the work without any cuts.
> here is one from an old cassette of a live performance by Stokowski from 1964
>
>
> https://mega.nz/#!IIAVla6D!AnBGUJe3DCZibo8XGFooT15-ELiW4NikPNsvSGgi4y0
http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e4dq9r
richard...@gmail.com
Nov 10, 2015, 6:31:59 PM11/10/15
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ways
Nov 11, 2015, 9:05:34 AM11/11/15
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yes Kerrison i know the concert ended with an encore of the finale of Shostakovich
Symphony No. 5 and Greensleeves which no one seems to have
Symphony No. 5 and Greensleeves which no one seems to have
m...@mesirowfinancial.com
Nov 11, 2015, 6:31:18 PM11/11/15
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On Sunday, October 25, 2015 at 11:33:15 AM UTC-5, Gerard wrote:
> ""I bought three times this CD from three different countries (USA, France,
> England) and each time the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff's fourth piano
> concerto played by Earl Wild with Jascha Horenstein conducting the RPO.
This happened to me the first time I bought it (four or five years ago), but the second time all was fine. It's just a pressing problem. I'm sure the label itself is blameless.
> ""I bought three times this CD from three different countries (USA, France,
> England) and each time the CD inside is the Rachmaninoff's fourth piano
> concerto played by Earl Wild with Jascha Horenstein conducting the RPO.
m...@mesirowfinancial.com
Nov 11, 2015, 6:33:13 PM11/11/15
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On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 10:00:47 AM UTC-5, Norman Schwartz wrote:
> I experienced that on a Bis CD
I once heard a Casals Mozart Sony disc delivered as rap. No kidding. I had to go to great lengths to get a replacement because I didn't notice the problem until months after the purchase.
> I experienced that on a Bis CD
m...@mesirowfinancial.com
Nov 11, 2015, 6:34:33 PM11/11/15
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On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 10:00:47 AM UTC-5, Norman Schwartz wrote:
> I experienced that on a Bis CD
Greatest disappointment: Tahra Furtwangler Hamburg Brahms 1. Peel off the plastic wrap, and there's no CD inside at all. Fortunately, someone actually believed me and I got a replacement.
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