Use of rotary and piston valve trumpets in US orchestras
Michael Schaffer
times that some US orchestras reach for rotary valve trumpets when they
play German and related repertoire. I have seen the CO, CSO, and I
think also the BSO do that, even switching from one to the other from
one piece to the next.
When I heard the CSO play Bruckner 8 in Berlin, they also played on
rotaries, although it didn't sound much like that.
So, what kind of instruments do they play? What is the common practice
in these and other top orchestras? Has the switching come into
"fashion" at some point or has it always been practiced? I think a lot
of brass players in US orchestras in the early 20th century were German
immingrants, so I wonder if there was a time when rotaries were more
common? It seems that now pistons are predominantly used, with the
occasional excursion as noted in the first paragraph.
Eric Nagamine
In the past, the top U.S. orchestras used to purchase rotary valved
trumpets from europe. I've read accounts where brass sections often
purchased them on tour from around the early 70's onward. I think that
the CSO was one of the first to do so. I find it odd that while rotory
valved trumpets are used in Bruckner and Wagner, Mahler is still done
with piston valved instruments in the U.S.
If you look at various orchestral histories, the country of origin of
brass players differed in the early 20th century. The Boston Symhony had
a strong French tradition of trumpet playing. There was a strong german
influence in the U.S. though I've seen belgian, dutch, & british brass
players in the U.S. as well in the early part of the century. Denis
Brain's uncle Al played in the U.S. (there are a couple of early LPs
with him doing concerti out in Hollywood)
In the mid century, most U.S. players were playing american made
instruments, though these days it's american, european, & asian. Both
World Wars probably contributed to the use of American made instruments,
especially WW2 when the continent was cut off to the U.S. Up to the
second world war, there was a mix of american & european instruments in
use. The NY Phil's solo hornist before WWII used a piston valved single
horn. Tuba players have used both rotory & piston valved instruments of
both american & european designs. Most of the pictures I've seen seem to
indicate mostly piston valved trumpets between world wars.
I once asked the Mahler Gesellschaft's Reinhold Kubik about the types of
instruments in use in the NY Phil during Mahler's tenure and he told me
that their research wasn't able to verify the types of instruments in
use in the early 20th C.
Oddly, I recall reading that Barbirolli liked the american brass sound
from his Philharmonic days and asked Vacchiano to bring over some
american made instruments for his Halle players on their first european
tour after the war. Vistors to the Soviet Union during the cold war
reported seeing american made Bach piston valved trumpets being used in
the opera pits.
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Aloha and Mahalo,
Eric Nagamine
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/mahlerb/broadcaststartpage.html
Michael Schaffer
> In the past, the top U.S. orchestras used to purchase rotary valved
> trumpets from europe. I've read accounts where brass sections often
> purchased them on tour from around the early 70's onward. I think that
> the CSO was one of the first to do so. I find it odd that while rotory
> valved trumpets are used in Bruckner and Wagner, Mahler is still done
> with piston valved instruments in the U.S.
What about Strauss? Is it possibly that the probably more "virtuoso" or
"agile" trumpets parts in these composers' scores account for thise
preference?
> If you look at various orchestral histories, the country of origin of
> brass players differed in the early 20th century. The Boston Symhony had
> a strong French tradition of trumpet playing. There was a strong german
> influence in the U.S. though I've seen belgian, dutch, & british brass
> players in the U.S. as well in the early part of the century. Denis
> Brain's uncle Al played in the U.S. (there are a couple of early LPs
> with him doing concerti out in Hollywood)
Obviously, people came to the US from many places, including musicians.
There does seem to be a tendency though among German immigrant groups
to be the ones mostly involved in setting up orchestras in the New
World; not surprising, perhaps, since in those days, every German city
bigger than a village had at least one opera theater with orchestra,
while music life in, for instance, France and England was usually
carried by gig bands made up from freelancers. According to a book from
the 60s I read by H.E. Dickson, a violinist in the BSO, the first
decades of the BSO were a "German" period before the French influence
became very strong on the 1920s. I also read somewhere that rehearsals
in the CSO were conducted in German until the late 20s. Maybe you know
more about that.
Jay Friedman also mentions on his website that the trombone section of
the CSO just before his time played on all German (-style) instruments.
> In the mid century, most U.S. players were playing american made
> instruments, though these days it's american, european, & asian. Both
> World Wars probably contributed to the use of American made instruments,
> especially WW2 when the continent was cut off to the U.S. Up to the
> second world war, there was a mix of american & european instruments in
> use. The NY Phil's solo hornist before WWII used a piston valved single
> horn.
Was that an F horn?
>Tuba players have used both rotory & piston valved instruments of
> both american & european designs. Most of the pictures I've seen seem to
> indicate mostly piston valved trumpets between world wars.
>
> I once asked the Mahler Gesellschaft's Reinhold Kubik about the types of
> instruments in use in the NY Phil during Mahler's tenure and he told me
> that their research wasn't able to verify the types of instruments in
> use in the early 20th C.
You probably know the interviews with NYP members who played under
Mahler which were taped, I believe, in the 50s or 60s. Apart from the
fact that all interviewees have noticeably middle European accents, one
of them also mentions that "ven Herr Mahler arrived in Noo York, oll ze
German brass vent to ze trane stashion to greet him". In the 20s Ravel
remarked, "American orchestras are the best in the world because all
the wood wind players are French, all the brass German, and all the
strings Russian" (or similar, I don't remember exactly what he said
about the strings). Obviously a little oversimplifed, but I think the
drift of what he wanted to say is clear.
That the general style of woodwind playing in the US was modelled on
French rather than German ideals seems pretty clear.
> Oddly, I recall reading that Barbirolli liked the american brass sound
> from his Philharmonic days and asked Vacchiano to bring over some
> american made instruments for his Halle players on their first european
> tour after the war. Vistors to the Soviet Union during the cold war
> reported seeing american made Bach piston valved trumpets being used in
> the opera pits.
Strange. Why would they have American made brass instruments? Brass
instruments are not that difficult to make, and probably much cheaper
to make domestically than to import, especially from the West to the
East during those times. I generally had never seen anything but
pistons in pictures of Soviet orchestras until I watched that Mravinsky
film (I think it was shot in the 50s) in which they play rotaries.
Naturally, that caught my eye.
Michael Schaffer
buy rotaries from the 70s onward? That mirrors what I heard from
someone else.
ansermetniac
wrote:
>Oddly, I recall reading that Barbirolli liked the american brass sound
>from his Philharmonic days and asked Vacchiano to bring over some
>american made instruments for his Halle players
Vacchiano played a Besson, made in France
Abbedd
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.
- HL Mencken
Richard Schultz
: I once asked the Mahler Gesellschaft's Reinhold Kubik about the types of
: instruments in use in the NY Phil during Mahler's tenure and he told me
: that their research wasn't able to verify the types of instruments in
: use in the early 20th C.
How many Mahler (inter alia) performances nowadays use the F trumpets he
called for rather than modern Bb or C trumpets?
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Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"We cannot see how any of his music can long survive him."
-- From the New York Daily Tribune obituary of Gustav Mahler