Kleiber Otello - La Scala 1976
Alex
and whether Music & Arts' set is as good a transfer available? I think it
is available on Myto and Exclsive, and others, also. Are there a lot of
stage noises (which tend to put me off live opera recordings)?
My previous exposure to Otello has been Leinsdorf's RCA set, I was looking
at the Chung DG set, but Kleiber's sounds as good a perfromance as exists
perhaps.
Thanks
Alex
Andrew T. Kay
>Can anyone comment on the sound quality of the live Carlos Kleiber Otello,
>and whether Music & Arts' set is as good a transfer available? I think it
>is available on Myto and Exclsive, and others, also. Are there a lot of
>stage noises (which tend to put me off live opera recordings)?
It's average for a live opera recording that wasn't a professionally engineered
commercial undertaking. The stage noises, unruly Scala crowd, adjustments in
volume as singers move around, etc., do not bother me, and the M&A transfer is
quite good (it's the only one I own, so I can't compare it). But if you've
often found it hard to enjoy live opera recordings, you'll have some
distractions to get past here. It's mono, by the way.
>My previous exposure to Otello has been Leinsdorf's RCA set,
Levine's, you mean?
>I was looking
>at the Chung DG set, but Kleiber's sounds as good a perfromance as exists
>perhaps.
It has one of the better lead trios -- Domingo, Freni, and Cappuccilli -- in
terms of everyone being basically well matched to the role, in good voice, and
having something to communicate. (However, I find Cappuccilli's Iago, though
well sung, too "sneering silent-film villain" sinister. It's not entirely his
fault, as producer Zefferelli wanted a satanic Iago and pushed him toward
maximum unsubtlety...or minimal subtlety, however you'd like to consider it.)
Kleiber is fine, but there's been the slight overrating of his fine work here
that inevitably results on those rare occasions when he comes down from the
mountaintop and gives us something, especially if it's a departure from his
usual repertoire. He doesn't conduct this score better than Toscanini or
Karajan, and it's not as spic-and-span a traversal as you might be expecting if
you know his studio recordings -- there are the forgivable (but nevertheless
present) blemishes of ensemble and moments of poor coordination between the pit
and the chorus, etc. I don't mean to exaggerate the performance's shortcomings;
it's a valuable document of an important occasion, and it lets us hear the
dominant Otello of his era in his freshest voice. But I don't consider it a
more satisfying performance than Serafin/RCA (probably my favorite overall;
many sets have more polished playing, but no lead trio brings greater artistry
and insight to the roles than Vickers, Rysanek, and Gobbi) and the Chung/DG you
mention.
By the way, if you get around to wanting a DVD version, Domingo/Frittoli/Muti
on TDK is superb.
--Todd K
Zex
"Andrew T. Kay" <lastredl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040517123911...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Thanks - I meant Serafin not Leinsdorf.
Dan
rather ragged. I guess Kleiber couldn't inspire his typical razor sharp
precision on this occasion. However, the performance it is pretty intense,
and it is quite well sung. I have quibbles with Kleiber's HUGE accelerando
in the ensemble that ends Act 3. Also, there's a wind or fog machine used in
the first act, which can be a matter of taste, and of course being live, the
voices move around and are semi-obstructed at times. I don't remember which
issue I heard.
I like Chung's conducting, or maybe it's the orchestra, or the recorded
sound... I'm not sure, but this set sounds really good and all the precision
is there and the climaxes are really big and loud and violent. There is a
little lack of plushness like in Karajan/Vienna and Domingo's voice is more
worn than in the Kleiber set for sure, and Studer is no Freni. Leiferkus is
interesting and I like him, but there are wide-ranging opinions on him.
Dan
"Alex" <aki...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:x-OcndocAet...@karoo.co.uk...
Mike Richter
There is every reason that the sound should be good - it was a telecast
that I received via satellite and the only problem was a serious failing
of sync in Act II. Since I have the video, I did not explore an audio
recording.
william kasimer
> My previous exposure to Otello has been Leinsdorf's RCA set, I was
looking
> at the Chung DG set, but Kleiber's sounds as good a perfromance as
exists
> perhaps.
I think that you mean Serafin or Levine, not Leinsdorf. As for the
Chung, it's probably my favorite modern-sounding version of the opera.
The sound is superb, the conducting tremendously exciting, and Domingo
is far more involved than on his other recordings of the opera.
Bill
william kasimer
"Dan" <dpet...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:fBbqc.53859$0qd....@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> I like Chung's conducting, or maybe it's the orchestra, or the
recorded
> sound... I'm not sure, but this set sounds really good and all the
precision
> is there and the climaxes are really big and loud and violent. There
is a
> little lack of plushness like in Karajan/Vienna and Domingo's voice
is more
> worn than in the Kleiber set for sure, and Studer is no Freni.
Perhaps not, but this is still one of Studer's better recordings.
> Leiferkus is interesting and I like him, but there are wide-ranging
opinions on him.
I like him a lot, too. It's not an Italianate sound, but it still
works well as Iago, and he's interesting and not nearly as mannered as
Milnes for Levine, for example.
Bill
Andrew T. Kay
You know...agreed on all counts. I always feel a little hesitant to admit this,
because I'm not deaf to the wear-and-tear and the attenuated high notes and the
more effortful production and so on, but I would rather hear Domingo's Otello
in either Chung/DG or the still-later Muti DVD with his "farewell" to it
(2001?) than for Kleiber or Levine in the seventies, precisely for the greater
dramatic involvement and his seeming to have made experience work for him, his
having grown into the part. He has excellent collaborators on both performances
as well (with the exception, for me, of Nucci's Iago for Muti, which I find
threadbare in every respect).
--Todd K
JJ
news:20040518002323...@mb-m10.aol.com:
I agree. Also, particularly in the Chung performance, Domingo's voice in
the mid-90s had acquired a darker and richer coloring, making this one of
his most beautifully-sung performances of the role as well.
Has anyone heard the MET dvd with Domingo and Fleming and Morris and
Levine, just out from DG?
Jon
Sergio H. da Silva
The sound is superb, very well recorded technically, but ...
Studer seems like she is reading the Manhatan phone book, no Italianate tone
and totally out-of-style. Leiferkus, please! He sings as if there was an egg
in his mouth, his Italian is atrocious, he is a good singer but in Russian
operas.
Domingo sounds to me a bit tired, his earlier recordings with Levine or
Maazel are preferable.
"william kasimer" <wkas...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xtdqc.16847$qA.2082964@attbi_s51...
j.m. terwiel
"Alex" <aki...@blueyonder.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:x-OcndocAet...@karoo.co.uk...
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Kleiber, Domingo, M. Price London 1978 (?) live perform. Breathtaking!
Where is that to be found?
Simon
La Donna Mobile
Yes, I like it but much prefer the Covent Garden under Solti with Dame
Kiri and Sergei Leiferkus (who in, IMO, really suits Iago; I'm not
sure James Morris does). I'm looking forward to seeing Anthony Sher's
version with the Royal Shakespeare Company in a couple of weeks...
I can't give a detailed critique because I'm not that bright :-), but
all my favourite bits - are just ever so slightly better on the Covent
Garden. I read somewhere - and agree - there's a lack of chemistry
between Placi and Renee.
Plus the Covent Garden version has the unintentional comedy at the
end. It was a gala to celebrate Solti's 80th birthday in the presence
of the Prince and Princess of Wales, and at the end the camera cuts to
the Royal Box. My partner and I independently of each other sniggered
at the aptness of an opera about a man who murders his cheating
wife...
But both are better, IMO, than the La Scala 2001 under Muti, when Si
pel ciel goes all wrong. And I don't find Leo nucci convincing as
Iago. Barbara Frittolli is okay as Desdemona, but of the three I would
rate Renee Fleming overall the highest, although not in Act 1. And
Kiri does the best Willow Song, although not as good as I heard Renee
do it in concert.
I have been called twisted for having three versions of the same opera
with the same Otello...!
Bob Reith
>
>Where is that to be found?
>
>Simon
Perhaps this is the one to which he refers. From Toru Hirasawa
(www.thrsw.com). It's the only Kleiber Otello with Margaret Price of which I
am aware
London ROO & cho S-CD ; Golden Melodram:5.0028(2CDs) (2001)
Royal Opera
19 February
1980 Live
Otello : Placido Domingo
Desdemona : Margaret Price
Jago : Silvano Carroli
Cassio : Robin Leggate
Roderigo : John Dobson
Lodovico : Robert Lloyd
Montano : Paul Hudson
Un araldo : Roderick Kennedy
Emilia : Claire Powell
$ Remarks :
Live recording at Royal Opera , London 1980.
Capital Radio Broadcast
Bob
JJ
news:40aa31b5$0$146$3a62...@reader1.nntp.hccnet.nl:
I'll second that recommendation for that other Kleiber Otello with Domingo
and Margaret Price. Covent Garden, 1978. Available on Golden Melodram, and
a superb performance.
Jon
JJ
news:20040518155918...@mb-m04.aol.com:
This is the CD set I have, but the year is 1978, not 1980. (though perhaps
the Golden Melodram date is incorrect)
Jon
william kasimer
"Sergio H. da Silva" <serg...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:0Anqc.221$YB6...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Chung's is my least favorite, as a matter of fact it is a weak
recording.
> The sound is superb, very well recorded technically, but ...
> Studer seems like she is reading the Manhatan phone book,
I often read this complaint about Studer, and I have to confess that I
don't really hear it. No, she doesn't chew the scenery, but I've
never heard her sing with the sort of generic blandness that I hear in
other singers who are rarely castigated for it.
> no Italianate tone
Well, no, but it's hard for me to understand how someone can praise
Rysanek in one posting and complain in another that Studer isn't
Italianate.
> and totally out-of-style.
How so?
> Leiferkus, please! He sings as if there was an egg
> in his mouth, his Italian is atrocious, he is a good singer but in
Russian
> operas.
I can't argue with you here; I just find him interesting and less
objectionable vocally.
> Domingo sounds to me a bit tired, his earlier recordings with Levine
or
> Maazel are preferable.
He does occasionally sound a bit worn here, but he is maddeningly
bland and unexciting on both the Levine and the Maazel (particularly
the latter, a recording with no redeeming virtue that I can
determine). He sounds like he's giving a singing less, and if there's
one role where that's least appropriate, it's Otello.
Bill
La Donna Mobile
Bloody hell, did Capital Radio use to broadcast live opera?
Strike a light.
Talk about the 'good old days'.
I am shocked to my very core.
(It's really bad chart-oriented pop radio for thickos)
Andrew T. Kay
>"Sergio H. da Silva" <serg...@pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:0Anqc.221$YB6...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
>> Studer seems like she is reading the Manhatan phone book,
>
>I often read this complaint about Studer, and I have to confess that I
>don't really hear it. No, she doesn't chew the scenery, but I've
>never heard her sing with the sort of generic blandness that I hear in
>other singers who are rarely castigated for it.
I don't hear it either, but I believe she was (is) a "cooler" Desdemona than we
usually get (I've found this to be true of her in other roles as well), and
that may be what her detractors are reacting to. She's not generic -- indeed, I
hear a rather well-worked-out and faceted interpretation, perhaps more so than
anyone's on recordings since Rysanek -- but neither does she really play up the
plaintiveness and innocence to get us on her side (vis, say, Freni); she tends
just to let the music and the libretto do their work. If there's such a thing
as a cerebral approach to Desdemona, she offers it.
--Todd K
Andrew T. Kay
>I like it but much prefer the Covent Garden under Solti with Dame
>Kiri and Sergei Leiferkus [...]
I had this for a while, but I gave it away to a friend when I got the Muti
performance. The cast is fine, but I have Domingo and Leiferkus in these roles
elsewhere, and Solti is a major liability for me. It's purely a matter of
individual taste, but I've never heard a Verdi performance conducted by him
that I didn't feel was hobbled by a steely, at times downright ugly orchestral
sonority with coarse, crude punctuation from overly prominent brass. It was
true of his overrated Decca _Aida_ and it was still true 30 years later. The
conductors of the subsequent Domingo _Otello_ DVDs, Muti and Levine (in that
order), are, to my ear, more stylistically attuned to this music.
--Todd K
Sergio H. da Silva
Desdemona is surprisingly a role that makes some demand on the lower part of
the lyric soprano voice, light singers such as Freni can "fake" it due to
the beautiful high notes and because Freni is Freni :-) Now Studer is no
Freni (meaning she lacks the Italian school of training, so portamento,
temperamento, all those things Scotto likes to emphasize ... is totally
strange to her), her middle to low notes are very hollow, her
characterization leaves a lot to be desired, take the duet for example,
right at the begining "mio superbo guerrier, quanti tormenti quanti misti
sospiri e quanto speme ci conduci ai soavi abbraciamenti" ... the first
three words already eluder her, she should sound proud and at the same time
uplifting (since she already senses Otello is depressed), Studer is neither,
the piano in "soavi" is a Mozartean piano, lacks color and so it goes.
It is funny you do not like Maazel, I think a lot of people confuse the
recording with the movie, the movie is a total failure, but the recording is
very good (not technically but as a performance); Ricciarelli to me is one
of the best Desdemona's, just relisten how she takes the first phrases in
the duet and specially how at the end of the duet she notices the change of
mood and spawns the most lovely "Amen, risponda" (at this point in the
score/libretto Desdemona has finally calmed Otello). Placido i.m.h.o is in
much better form, it is a fiery Otello but tormented as well, a truly
mesmerizing reading. Diaz is infinitely better than Leiferkus, the role is a
bit high for him but he manages it and is subtle in perversity. Maazel is
the biggest surprise to me, his Verdi readings are usually awful, he has a
problem getting the tempo right, but here he seems to be Toscanini inspired
and gives a very exciting reading.
...news:cRyqc.32390$6f5.3111435@attbi_s54...
David7Gable
>individual taste, but I've never heard a Verdi performance conducted by him
>that I didn't feel was hobbled by a steely, at times downright ugly
>orchestral
>sonority with coarse, crude punctuation from overly prominent brass.
I'm not normally Solti's biggest fan--then again, a "steely, at times downright
ugly orchestral sonority" would never in itself deter me--but I do quite like
his conducting of the Decca set with Price (Margaret), Cossutta, and Bacquier.
There's not much to admire about any of the singing, though. (Bacquier could
have been one of the great Iago's, but his voice is totally shot here.) And
then there's that ghastly moment nobody caught in the last act where Cossutta
is about a measure off from the orchestra for a couple of measures.) But the
Vienna Phil play like savages on adrenalin--very virtuosic savages--and Solti
is intensely involved. And he actually manages to shape the lyric movements
with some degree of imagination.
-david gable
David7Gable
>recording with the movie, the movie is a total failure, but the recording is
>very good
I was so disappointed that I got rid of it after hearing it once. (I've never
seen the movie.)
>Ricciarelli to me is one
>of the best Desdemona's, just relisten how she takes the first phrases in
>the duet and specially how at the end of the duet she notices the change of
>mood and spawns the most lovely "Amen, risponda"
I could easily imagine Ricciarelli being as good as you say, and you make me
curious to hear her contribution to this set again, but what's the date of the
recording? Too far after 1980 and the voice is probably in pretty bad shape.
>Maazel is
>the biggest surprise to me, his Verdi readings are usually awful, he has a
>problem getting the tempo right, but here he seems to be Toscanini inspired
>and gives a very exciting reading.
I know what you mean, but I still didn't find Maazel interesting enough to
keep.
-david gable
David7Gable
>don't really hear it. No, she doesn't chew the scenery, but I've
>never heard her sing with the sort of generic blandness that I hear in
>other singers who are rarely castigated for it.
I agree with you on Studer. She seems to get an undeserved bum rap.
-david gable
Andrew T. Kay
>>Solti is a major liability for me. It's purely a matter of
>>individual taste, but I've never heard a Verdi performance conducted by him
>>that I didn't feel was hobbled by a steely, at times downright ugly
>>orchestral
>>sonority with coarse, crude punctuation from overly prominent brass.
>
>I'm not normally Solti's biggest fan--then again, a "steely, at times
>downright
>ugly orchestral sonority" would never in itself deter me--
Well..."steely" wouldn't me either, in sensible doses. "Ugly" and "crude," on
the other hand, are rarely desirable. Broadly speaking, I find him less
stylish, less idiomatic, and just less pleasing to the ear than any conductor,
bar none, who has left us more than two complete Verdi operas on disc. I'd
rather hear his Wagner, Strauss, or (even) Mozart.
>but I do quite like
>his conducting of the Decca set with Price (Margaret),
Too bad there's no Price (Leontyne). She had her reasons for not wanting to do
the role complete, I know, but the parts she did record on her RCA recital
albums, even though they came a little late in the day, suggest we were
somewhat the poorer for it. Do you know her love duet with the young Domingo
and her Willow Song/Ave Maria (cond. Santi and Molinari-Pradelli)? I last heard
them several years ago and have very fond memories of them that I probably
should test.
>Cossutta, and
>Bacquier.
>There's not much to admire about any of the singing, though. (Bacquier could
>have been one of the great Iago's, but his voice is totally shot here.)
Agreed. I like no one's contribution to that set, but I suppose it has more
going for it than his (Solti's) remake.
>And
>then there's that ghastly moment nobody caught in the last act where Cossutta
>is about a measure off from the orchestra for a couple of measures.) But the
>Vienna Phil play like savages on adrenalin--very virtuosic savages--and Solti
>is intensely involved. And he actually manages to shape the lyric movements
>with some degree of imagination.
I know you're not as much on the lookout for opera in the DVD format as some of
us are, but you may enjoy the Domingo et al. performance at Covent Garden,
then...at least more than I did. Solti's ideas about conducting _Otello_ don't
seem to have changed greatly over the years, and here he has a better cast than
on either of the audio sets.
--Todd K
Andrew T. Kay
>>Ricciarelli to me is one
>>of the best Desdemona's, just relisten how she takes the first phrases in
>>the duet and specially how at the end of the duet she notices the change of
>>mood and spawns the most lovely "Amen, risponda"
>
>I could easily imagine Ricciarelli being as good as you say, and you make me
>curious to hear her contribution to this set again, but what's the date of
>the
>recording? Too far after 1980 and the voice is probably in pretty bad shape.
The date is 1985, which would indicate she has a little less left in the tank
(per the vocal gauge, anyway, if not the expressive one) than she has on the
slightly earlier Abbado/DG _Don Carlos_. I don't have much useful to add to the
debate about her performance or the conducting of the Maazel set -- my
impressions, like David Gable's, were not favorable, and nothing about this
struck me as favorable enough for me to leave shelf room for it, _Otello_ on
disc being the crowded and intermittently distinguished field that it is.
However, at least, unlike Karajan's film soundtrack, the slicing and dicing of
the score for the film didn't carry over to the audio version...
--Todd K
Simon Roberts
I agree (though I wish they had redone the very end of the Ave Maria - surely
she could have sung the final high quiet note better. I also agree re Maazel's.
Aside from a few lovely quiet sounds from Ricciarelli, I can't hear anything
good in it at all (well, Domingo's OK, but he can be heard in better contexts).
Maazel's may be the worst conducting I've heard in the piece; I don't often get
angry when listening to a recording, but I did here (having bought it on Alan
Blyth's effusive recommendation didn't help my mood).
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>>>Kleiber, Domingo, M. Price London 1978 (?) live perform. Breathtaking!
>>
>>Where is that to be found?
>>
>>Simon
>
>Perhaps this is the one to which he refers. From Toru Hirasawa
>(www.thrsw.com). It's the only Kleiber Otello with Margaret Price of which I
>am aware
[snip]
Thanks!
Simon
David7Gable
>Do you know her love duet with the young Domingo
>and her Willow Song/Ave Maria (cond. Santi and Molinari-Pradelli)?
Don't know the duet and haven't heard the Act IV stuff in years.
For the record, I don't like any of the complete recordings of Otello except
Toscanini's, and there are things about it I don't like. (Love Vinay's perhaps
somewhat over the top but nevertheless intensely expressive Otello. He doesn't
have much of a voice, of course.)
-david gable
Richard Bernas
> Toscanini's, and there are things about it I don't like. (Love Vinay's perhaps
> somewhat over the top but nevertheless intensely expressive Otello. He doesn't
> have much of a voice, of course.)
>
> -david gable
The 1954 Cetra Otello with Taddei and Guichandut was conducted by the
stellar Franco Capuana. I would ahve thought his work just up your
street.
Richard
David7Gable
>stellar Franco Capuana. I would ahve thought his work just up your
>street.
Funny you should mention this, Richard. I actually think this recording was
licensed by Vox and released on Vox. If that's true, it may be the very first
Otello I heard way back in Junior High School. Taddei as Iago certainly sounds
promising. I'd also be curious to hear one of the complete Otello's with
Tibbett, Martinelli, and Panizza. All if know are the commercial recordings
Martinelli and Tibbett made with somebody else. (I'm not entirely sure whether
I'm to take your description of Capuana as stellar at face value, or whether
you speak with deep irony. I do rather like his contribution to one of early
Mefistofele recordings.)
-david gable
David7Gable
has a little less left in the tank
>(per the vocal gauge, anyway, if not the expressive one) than she has on the
>slightly earlier Abbado/DG _Don Carlos
Well, I quite like Ricciarelli's contribution to the Abbado Don Carlos, so
there's a little hope. But I'd have to listen to Maazel again to hear her
Desdemona. (There must be live ones, too.)
-david gable
Richard Loeb
Richard"David7Gable" <david...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040522232234...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Andrew T. Kay
> (I'm not entirely sure whether
>I'm to take your description of Capuana as stellar at face value, or whether
>you speak with deep irony. I do rather like his contribution to one of early
>Mefistofele recordings.)
And I, his contribution to the Gencer/Bergonzi/Cossotto _Aida_. His orchestra
can't match the virtuosity of those led by Karajan, Muti, etc., but he brings a
lot of spine and nerve to the proceedings, and a fine sense of pace, so
important in this opera with all its divertissements, potentially lumbering
march interludes and assorted spectacles. (I wish the Triumphal Scene's ballet
hadn't been encored -- of all the things the crowd might have wanted repeated
that night! ... -- but it's easy enough to skip.) He's a worthy partner to his
cast, and that's saying a lot here.
--Todd K
Richard Bernas
Capuana does a good job with a poor orchestra and "interesting" cast
pulling that Otello together, so my irony was only of the lightest
variey, David.
I have never heard a really good (i.e. MET-originated) representation
of a Panizza/Martinelli Otello but what I can glean from lesser
sources is mighty impressive indeed.
Richard
Aron
Hi Guys
If you look up my Website ,which was just posted a few days ago,I
have 3 versions of Otello - 2 are on Lp and 1 is on CD.
Pleaase look up my Website and and email me.This is my first visit to
the Opera Group.My email is pea...@bigpond.net.au I am Arthur 24
yrs in Australia.
Please keep me posted. My Webpage of my Music Collection is ------
http://users.bigpond.net.au/arthursmusic/
Regards Arthur
David7Gable
Can you tell me more, Richard? And has it made it to CD?
-david gable
Richard Loeb
Vox Opera Box 146 in the early 60s. Cast was Gino Sarri as Otello, Anna la
Pollo as Desdemona and Antonio Manca Serra as Iago con. by Alberto Paoletti.
Don't think it made it to CD yet but its only a matter of time.news:20040526130302...@mb-m05.aol.com...
Richard Loeb
"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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