"Turandot"
Peter
Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot" recording?
Even though this recording has gathered high praise, and I agree that the
singing is quite excellent, it seems to me that the very early CD mastering
(1984) has resulted in a rather "harsh sounding" recording, and
unfortunately to the best of my knowledge London/Decca has never seen fit to
remaster it.
I would be most interested to hear the experience of others in reference to
the recording quality of this very famous release.
Thanks in advance.
david...@aol.com
The only aspect of this performance I ever liked, and that very much,
was Pavarotti's Calaf.
-david gable
MIFrost
I love it, myself. I never noticed any particular "harshness" in the
sound, though. I bought the Franco Corelli version as an alternative
and don't like it half as much. The singers in the Pav recording are
superb, the orchestra is lush and exciting, and the whole thing is so
alive and theatrical, it just bowls me over every time. This is one of
the only recordings that truly gives me goosebumps when I hear it. I
think Mehta deserves a lot of the credit, BTW.
MIFrost
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
Having said that...I still prefer the RCA Nilsson, Tebaldi, Björling, Tozzi
Leinsdorf recording. Perfect performance by all concerned with great sound.
I fell in love with this opera through this performance.
--
Jon E. Szostak, Sr.
"MIFrost" <sfr...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1124989447....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mitchell Kaufman
> I wonder how different listeners perceive the London/Decca
> Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot" recording?
>
> Even though this recording has gathered high praise, and I agree that the
> singing is quite excellent, it seems to me that the very early CD
> mastering (1984) has resulted in a rather "harsh sounding" recording, and
> unfortunately to the best of my knowledge London/Decca has never seen fit
> to remaster it.
Agreed. It needs remastering. The original, which I have on UK-pressed
American LPs, German pressed (by Teldec) German LPs, and
Ampex-manufactured, Dolbyized open-reel tapes, was varying degrees of
relatively very good-to-excellent on all-three formats; the CDs are but
a shadow. (The UK-pressed LPs are best, for the, er, record.)
As a matter of personal opinion, many of the early Decca CDs are in need
of remastering, most importantly the Solti Ring (which ostensibly
utilized the digital tapes prepared for the early '80s "digital" LP
issue--on both the original "regular" CDs as well as the later CEDAR
de-hissed CDs), but also for many other opera/operetta recordings, most
notably the first Karajan Otello and his stereo Fledermaus.
The oddly uneven sonic history is a bit of a mystery, since I consider
it to be perhaps the last truly-great-sounding studio recording of
opera, at least among those I've heard. Yes, and over 30 years old. Sad
state of affairs. (The RCA Eichhorn Hänsel is very fine as well.)
I've read from critics I trust on such matters that the Gheorghiu-Alagna
Tosca also sounds great, but I can't bring myself to listen to the
performance. (Perhaps some day if I come across it in the library; as
for my hard-earned cash, that's another matter.)
MK
Mitchell Kaufman
> The oddly uneven sonic history is a bit of a mystery, since I consider
> it to be perhaps the last truly-great-sounding studio recording of
> opera, at least among those I've heard. Yes, and over 30 years old. Sad
> state of affairs. (The RCA Eichhorn Hänsel is very fine as well.)
"It" would be the Mehta Turandot. Sorry if that was unclear in my
original post.
MK
Richard Loeb
"Jon E. Szostak, Sr." <jszostaks...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8M-dnX03LIb...@giganews.com...
>I find the CD quite good...great performance by all.
>
> Having said that...I still prefer the RCA Nilsson, Tebaldi, Björling,
> Tozzi Leinsdorf recording. Perfect performance by all concerned with
> great sound. I fell in love with this opera through this performance.
> --
> all-round best Richard
Raymond Hall
news:g_SdnZ2dnZ1BKE-fnZ2dn...@comcast.com...
I cannot testify to the CD quality because I have this Mehta led performance
on cassettes. Sounds good, but maybe I'll look out for any re-incarnation on
CD.
Great experience though. A tremendous opera.
Ray H
Taree
Mitchell Kaufman
> I cannot testify to the CD quality because I have this Mehta led
> performance on cassettes. Sounds good, but maybe I'll look out for any
> re-incarnation on CD.
Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention in my other post that I also have the
performance on pre-recorded cassettes (in addition to two flavors of
vinyl, one of CD--the latter of which I've only heard but don't own--and
also open-reel). They're overall the worst of *any* of the issues of the
recording, which is undoubtedly one manifestation of the sonic factors
that led the prerecorded cassette never to make it as a medium for
classical music listeners.
Th results so far:
The CDs sound rottener than they should, but better than the cassettes.
The open-reel is good, but not particularly so for an open-reel. The
tops lose sparkle with Dolby NR engaged--for which these tapes claim to
be processed.
The German LPs are a major disappointment--quiet, but not-so-hot sonics,
including attenuated bass, a disaster in this opera.
The UK-pressed U.S. LPs are sensational, with bass to make you jump out
of your chair, particularly in the opening scene.
The cassettes sound like, er, cassettes. A mediocre souvenir of the
performance, with no highs and no lows.
I'd love to hear the Japanese LPs some time. ;-)
MK
Peter
"Mitchell Kaufman" <forg...@iaint.disclosinit> wrote in message
> I'd love to hear the Japanese LPs some time. ;-)
Does anyone know of the possible existence of a "reremastered Japanese"
Compact Disc edition of the Mehta/Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot"?
Richard Loeb
o"Peter" <reply to newsgroup only> wrote in message
news:CvSdnT8p9PS...@comcast.com...
>That would be something - I was lucky enough to get the Japanese remastered
>Callas recital box - so superior to the EMI junk , its no contest Richard
Steven de Mena
"Mitchell Kaufman" <forg...@iaint.disclosinit> wrote in message
> "Peter" <reply to newsgroup only> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how different listeners perceive the London/Decca
>> Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot" recording?
>>
>> Even though this recording has gathered high praise, and I agree that the
>> singing is quite excellent, it seems to me that the very early CD
>> mastering (1984) has resulted in a rather "harsh sounding" recording, and
>> unfortunately to the best of my knowledge London/Decca has never seen fit
>> to remaster it.
>
> Agreed. It needs remastering. The original, which I have on UK-pressed
> American LPs, German pressed (by Teldec) German LPs, and
> Ampex-manufactured, Dolbyized open-reel tapes, was varying degrees of
> relatively very good-to-excellent on all-three formats; the CDs are but
> a shadow. (The UK-pressed LPs are best, for the, er, record.)
>
> As a matter of personal opinion, many of the early Decca CDs are in need
> of remastering, most importantly the Solti Ring (which ostensibly
> utilized the digital tapes prepared for the early '80s "digital" LP
> issue--on both the original "regular" CDs as well as the later CEDAR
> de-hissed CDs), but also for many other opera/operetta recordings, most
> notably the first Karajan Otello and his stereo Fledermaus.
What about the Pavarotti/Sutherland "Rigoletto"? I seem to recall that CD
sounding very bad, even distorted in places. :(
Steve
Mitchell Kaufman
> > As a matter of personal opinion, many of the early Decca CDs are in need
> > of remastering, most importantly the Solti Ring (which ostensibly
> > utilized the digital tapes prepared for the early '80s "digital" LP
> > issue--on both the original "regular" CDs as well as the later CEDAR
> > de-hissed CDs), but also for many other opera/operetta recordings, most
> > notably the first Karajan Otello and his stereo Fledermaus.
>
> What about the Pavarotti/Sutherland "Rigoletto"? I seem to recall that CD
> sounding very bad, even distorted in places. :(
That, too (though it's not really a great recording, either performance-
wise or sonically).
The fact that Decca is still resting on their 1984 laurels in so many
cases is disconcerting. For all the unpleasantness of having to buy
stuff three and four times, the technology *has* improved over the last
20 years, and remasterings here are long overdue.
That said, poor handling and preservation of the master tapes can in
many cases make satisfactory reissues of certain titles unlikely. For
example, I've pretty much given up hope on the Price/Karajan Tosca and
Price/Solti Aida. (Compare to the Living Stereo release of the
Price/Leinsdorf Butterfly, a reissue that was done right.)
In fact, I'm not particularly charged up about the Living Stereo CDs of
the Leinsdorf Turandot either. It bears precious little resemblance to
the glorious open-reel tapes of 1959. The high end of the CDs is hard
and steely, and the mid-bass and spaciousness of the original recording
seems largely to have been lost. That the original CD issue possessed
these same flaws doesn't bode well for the condition of the original
masters.
That 20 years into the format we still can't buy a great performance of
Turandot with great sonics to boot is really a shame.
MK
Mitchell Kaufman
> > Does anyone know of the possible existence of a "reremastered Japanese"
> > Compact Disc edition of the Mehta/Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot"?
> >That would be something - I was lucky enough to get the Japanese remastered
> >Callas recital box - so superior to the EMI junk , its no contest Richard
No, but it's too bad JVC seems to be phasing out its xrcd series (or so
The Absolute Sound contends in its current issue). JVC had just recently
begun to add Decca catalog titles to its mostly first-rate RCAs, and the
Turandot would've been an ideal candidate for the treatment. As it
stands, no operas have been included in the series. (The discs are
regular "red book" CDs, which will play on all current units.)
The much more realistic pricing of the RCA Living Stereo SACDs (which
also include a newly-remastered red book version in that layer and
longer playing time overall) would seem to spell, if not doom, a
reconsideration of the series' pricing structure.
MK
Steven de Mena
"Mitchell Kaufman" <forg...@iaint.disclosinit> wrote in message
I do not think there was ever ANY justification for the "XRCD"'s costing any
more than other re-issued material on CD. And the fact they duplicated the
original LP without adding any material was a ripoff.
Steve
Andrew T. Kay
> The only aspect of this performance I ever liked, and that very much,
> was Pavarotti's Calaf.
I, on the other hand, like his and everyone else's performance on it:
Caballé, Ghiaurov, Pears, Mehta, and even Sutherland, whom I almost
never find rewarding to hear on other than technical grounds. Oddly,
with TURANDOT -- which is neither very high nor very low on my own
operatic hit parade -- my reactions to specific performers have more
than once surprised me. Another example: Neither Tebaldi nor Nilsson is
usually a favorite singer of mine, but I find them both just smashing
on the Leinsdorf/RCA set, which is my co-favorite with the Decca.
Todd K
Dana Hill
news:CcednWod_4U...@comcast.com...
>
> What about the Pavarotti/Sutherland "Rigoletto"? I seem to recall that CD
> sounding very bad, even distorted in places. :(
>
Yes, I have thought that sounded poor on CD since I got it, though I have
compared it to LP. It just sounds ill-defined, in forte passages,
especially. I don't hear the distortion that is so evident in the Mehta
Trovatore, though. As for the performance on the Rigoletto, I consider it
my favorite. Then again, I own a button that says "MILNES IS MAGNIFICENT".
Back to the original topic, I like the Mehta Turandot a lot, and think it
sounds just fine. Even better, perhaps than his DG Fanciulla del West,
which I listened to a bit of recently, and found a little too distant for my
taste, though not as much so as, say, Karajan's Turandot.
--
Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
Photography: www.danajohnhill.com
Personal: www.danajohnhill.org
Steven de Mena
"Dana Hill" <danaha...@danajohnhill.com> wrote in message
news:den47b$n7c$1...@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> "Steven de Mena" <dem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:CcednWod_4U...@comcast.com...
>>
>> What about the Pavarotti/Sutherland "Rigoletto"? I seem to recall that
>> CD sounding very bad, even distorted in places. :(
>>
>
> Yes, I have thought that sounded poor on CD since I got it, though I have
> compared it to LP. It just sounds ill-defined, in forte passages,
> especially. I don't hear the distortion that is so evident in the Mehta
> Trovatore, though. As for the performance on the Rigoletto, I consider it
> my favorite. Then again, I own a button that says "MILNES IS
> MAGNIFICENT".
I liked it too but haven't played it in ages due to the sound. I'll have to
give it another try. Someone else here said the performance was nothing
special. :(
I have that DG Fanciulla on the way from a recent eBay auction win. Haven't
heard that since it came out. I can remember the DG promo guy coming by the
radio station I worked at handing out corny "sheriff" badges and playing
cards promoting the set.
Steve
Dana Hill
>
>
> I have that DG Fanciulla on the way from a recent eBay auction win.
> Haven't heard that since it came out. I can remember the DG promo guy
> coming by the radio station I worked at handing out corny "sheriff" badges
> and playing cards promoting the set.
>
Awesome! I haven't received anything like that since working at a radio
station. Alas, we not only do not have a DG promo guy, but any other kind
of promo guy that I know of. There are a few generous labels, though, who
continue to provide us with recordings, whereas, from what I hear, many have
stopped the practice.
A. Brain
news:BuvPe.10735$FA3....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
It is a great opera. I just returned from Santa Fe, New Mexico,
where Patricia Racette as Liu stole the show in the final performance
of the season (which I always attend). Both Carl Tanner and
Jennffer Wilson as Calaf and Turandot respectively were very good,
but they were outdone dramatically and vocally by Racette, I thought.
Of course, I am a Racette fan, but then it's hardly possible to see this
opera with the typical leads and not wonder what the hell is going
through Calaf's mind. Like Pinkerton in "Butterfly", and unlike Rodolfo
in "Boheme", he's something of a jerk. Here he has this beautiful,
simple, good-hearted slave girl who is devoted to his father, worships
him
and is readily available (and in most productions far more appealing
than the alternatives, even if one of them might be the priesthood--or
what we thought the priesthood entailed before recent revelations).
It reminds me of the great cartoonist Berke Breathed's characterization
of "The Wizard of Oz". Here you have a lonely girl living on a dirt
farm in Kansas, with a few soporific friends and what look like bad
times.
Then one day, she is whisked away to a brand new world of color and
glamour and comrades who bond to her instantly and are devoted to her
and they start out on a journey of fulfillment and excitement. And the
rest of the story is about her trying to get back to the dirt farm.
Here, you have a Prince who is a little down and out, but why would
he want to go after this nutty (and usually very full-figured) Princess
who has all these weird issues and baggage, not to mention the
price of failure? I think the opera would be better dramatically if
there were more of a "scene" or a lament at the death of Liu
(and this is supposedly the place where Puccini left off).
As usual, the Santa Fe production was mostly superb, with lavish
costumes and acting, even down to the smallest details. When the doomed
prince in the first act was seen, a non-singing role, he looked
youthful, aristocratic and scared. The childrens' choruses were
beautifully sincere as were the other crowd scenes. Only the sets were
disappointing, mostly looking like bleachers from a high school football
field.
Rossini's "Barber of Seville" was also excellent. Brian Leerhuber
was probably the best sung and acted Figaro I have ever seen. The
production was not as stunning as their "Italian Girl" from a few
years ago, but then almost nothing could top that.
--
A. Brain
Remove NOSPAM for email.
music lover
Jerry
> Anyone heard the recent Blu Ray Mehta Turandot?
http://www.wqxr.org/#!/story/enigmas-turandot/
The work is possibly my favorite grand opera (or, more specifically,
favorite 5/6th of an opera) because I understand the dramatic
difficulty inherent in redeeming a very unsympathetic title character
in the last half of the final act. My introduction was through
recordings (the Nilsson/Bjorling/Tebaldi/Leinsdorf), so it was
always about the music......and glorious music it is, at least the
5/6th penned by Puccini before his death.
The Mehta-led performance on Decca/London is the one I return to
most often and I'm really tempted by the Blu-Ray edition, though
I'm still puzzled by Universal's decision to bundle the CDs and BD
together.
So, would those with the BD edition offer their views on whether the
BD disc is any improvement over the conventional CD issue?
Jerry
Frank Berger
was Rosa Raisa, who opened Turandot at La Scala. There is an
interesting article about her on Wikipedia.
Apparently, for family reasons, she self-limited her career
somewhat, limiting international performances and preferring
to sing with the Chicago Lyric Opera. Rosa Ponselle was
good friend. My friend had a family-produced set of LPs.
This was around the time of the introduction of CDs. I
wonder if that LP set formed the basis of the later Raisa CD
set.
Willem Orange
Dana John Hill
> Anyone heard the recent Blu Ray Mehta Turandot?
>
spite of the outstanding individual performances in other sets that lack
in other ways.
OT, but I was spellbound watching Anna Hartig as Liu in last weekend's
Met Turandot HD simulcast. I'm a sucker for a sweet voice with a fast
vibrato. Alas, Marco Berti as Calaf was a wreck. I've never seen anyone
rush through "Nessun dorma" as though he had somewhere else he needed to be.
Dana
Jerry
The executives at EMI (and also at American Columbia) were severely behind the
curve when it came to adopting stereo.
Jerry
cooper...@gmail.com
AC
Willem Orange
Bob Harper
had the same impression. Just not very good.
Bob Harper
gggg gggg
> I wonder how different listeners perceive the London/Decca
> Pavarotti/Sutherland "Turandot" recording?
> Even though this recording has gathered high praise, and I agree that the
> singing is quite excellent, it seems to me that the very early CD mastering
> (1984) has resulted in a rather "harsh sounding" recording, and
> unfortunately to the best of my knowledge London/Decca has never seen fit to
> remaster it.
> I would be most interested to hear the experience of others in reference to
> the recording quality of this very famous release.
(Recent Y. upload):
Dave's Faves No. 156 (Puccini)