Schubert's D959: any recommendations?
Frank Lekens
to have been recorded by major pianists far less than the other late
sonatas. When I pulled out my Schubert sonatas the other day to try and
see which ones I actually liked best and which ones I might as well get
rid of, I found only 6 recordings of D959. For D960, I think I can
easily find double that amount of recordings in my collection.
The six recordings that I had were Schnabel, Brendel (Philips), Lupu,
Perahia, Zacharias and Melvyn Tan. At the moment I possess only 5,
because I only needed one cursory listening to Tan to grab it out of the
player and run to the cd store to sell it. I once bought it after having
listened briefly in the shop, because I thought he played D960
interestingly faster than most other pianists. But all I heard now was
the constricted sound of an unattractive sounding fortepiano, played
with little or no imagination. He's certainly done nothing to convince
me that these sonatas can sound well on fortepianos. (Maybe I should try
Staier? I usually like his recordings. But although in general I like
HIP-performances as interesting (and sometimes superior) alternatives to
non-HIP performances, I have a feeling that for me at least, Schubert's
sonatas only "sound right" on a normal piano.)
Most crucial of all to my appreciation of this sonata is the 2nd
movement. To describe this in very simplistic terms: it starts with a
simple, quiet, pleasant Schubertian melody. Then comes a more agitated
part, which builds up into a formidable storm that grinds to a halt two
or three times with a crashing, Lisztian chord. And when the "storm" has
abated, the initial theme returns, accompanied by a throbbing figuration
that makes it sound totally transfigured, very much "the quiet *after*
the storm". (Excuse the amateurish, impressionist description, both here
and in my description of the performances below; I have no command
whatsoever of the proper musicological terminology.)
It is this movement especially that makes D959 my favourite among
Schubert's sonatas, and the performance of this movement that I have
concentrated on when I made a cursory comparison of the 5 recordings
that I have.
Lupu's was the first recording of it that I ever heard. It was good
enough to immediately make me fall in love with the sonata, and for a
long time it was (as such things go) the benchmark by which I judged
every other recording of it. E.g., when I bought the Brendel twofer with
Schubert's late sonatas, I was distinctly underwhelmed. One thing that
stands out in Lupu's performance is the violence of the "storm" that he
works up in ii, the ferocity of his Lisztian chords there. In
comparison, Brendel's storm seems almost laid back - really a storm in a
teacup. Other things in this and the other sonatas in the set seem OK;
and I'll keep the set around because it's an OK "central" set (plus I
seem to remember some rmcr-members whose opinion I value saying good
things about it; so maybe I'll have to give it a few more good listens
to hunt for possible hidden treasures). But certainly for D959 this is
*not* my top recommendation.
It's true that Lupu plays ii a lot faster than anyone I've heard, but to
my ears he doesn't sound too rushed, and the tempo doesn't butcher the
melody. What it mainly does is make the movement a bit tighter and give
more relative weight to the "storm" vis à vis the rest of the movement.
On the whole, maybe he stresses the tenser aspects of the sonata a bit
more than other pianists. But maybe other people do find his playing too
rushed?
All the other performers adopt a more leisurely tempo. Whether or not
they take their cue from Schnabel I don't know - but they might well,
because it's a wonderful performance. I don't know quite how to praise
his recording. His storm may sound a tad less spectacularly wild than
Lupu's, but it's formidable enough. And for the rest, I can only say
that in most respects his playing sound "just right" - without being
able to formulate exactly in what sense.
Zacharias, by contrast, often sounds to me "almost, but not quite
there". It's a solid performance, well thought out, benefiting from a
fine sound quality - but to me it sounds vaguely nervous, unsettled. He
sometimes places fairly unsubtle accents where I'd prefer just to hear
the melody plain and simple. And the movements seem to fall apart a
little at his hands: in ii, after the introductory melody, instead of
merging seamlessly into the buildup to the storm, it's almost as though
he stops for a fraction of a fraction of a second ("so, now we've got
this over with; wipe sweat from brow; now on to the next bit") and then
launches into that build up. The storm itself is admirably wild, and on
the whole it's not an unpleasant recording, but it has too many
infelicities for me to really like it. It's lucky that it's in a 5 cd-
box with all of Schubert's completed sonatas (many of which I have to
give a closer listen to evaluate them more properly), otherwise I might
even consider selling this one too.
Perahia's, on the other hand, sounds ideal to me in many respects. It
doesn't supplant Schnabel, but for me it's the best of the performances
in modern sound.
I bought this disc at the strength of its Penguin rosette (this
was before I'd even heard of rmcr and had my ears washed in it; am I
excused?). I don't generally like Perahia's Schumann as much anymore as
I used to in my - less critical - pre-rmcr years. The op. 22 on the same
disc for instance contains fine playing (with bloom on top and no agogic
distortions, &c), but sounds too relaxed and lacking in tension compared
to other great recordings. However, I do still quite like his Bach, his
Beethoven generally sounds fine if unremarkable to me (as opposed to,
for instance, Brendel's, which I usually find *dull* and unremarkable) -
and when comparing this sonata I found that in many cases he sounds to
me like an ideal Schubert pianist.
Maybe that's also because my ideal for Schubert's piano sonatas
is rather different than that for Beethoven's (naturally!). Where with
Beethoven I relish the wide variety of interpretations that his sonatas
give rise to (I have more complete cycles of them than I care to count),
and I generally find "perverse" approaches interesting (Kuerti,
Mustonen, Ugorski, or in a different way Gulda) - with Schubert I tend
to feel that simplicity should reign supreme. Up to a point of course,
and I don't want to invoke the green-eyed ogre of ltmsfi here, or start
demanding that pianists not "interpose their personality".
But I do feel that Schubert's sonatas, and D959 in any case,
benefit from a relative absence of posturing and extreme interpretive
touches.
All this to indicate that this may partly explain my partiality
to Perahia's D959. Maybe what makes his Mozart and Schumann sometimes so
boring (the plainness, middle-of-the-roadness of it all) is what makes
his Schubert attractive (to me). (Not that Perahia can't be willful when
he chooses: I found his English Suites rather surprising in this
respect.)
To describe it in more positive terms, however: the performance
sounds very much to be "of a whole". Where with Zacharias the movements
tend to fall apart into their constituent parts, with Perahia they tend
to flow along seamlessly. Where Zacharias sometimes places accents with
a lack of subtlety that make the whole sound a little too nervous,
Perahia gives his playing a beneficial simplicity which he spices up
with very *delicate* dynamic shadings that don't interrupt the flow.
His storm may be a tad less excruciating than others' (in fact,
if I have to criticize anything, I do seem to hear a slight holding back
here, a reigning in which I also often seem to hear in his Schumann).
But when after the storm the theme returns transfigured, he plays the
transfiguring "heartthrobs" a lot more delicately than the other
pianists. It recedes into the background and sounds more ghostly and
distant, like a faint echo, than in the other recordings. It's a touch I
rather like. (Perahia's sounds if anything even more leisurely than
Schnabel's.)
All in all, this doesn't tally up to badly: five recordings, three of
which I like a lot, and two that aren't all that bad.
But I didn't write all this just to get it off my chest. I'd be very
interested in other people's opinions.
And although with Schubert I'm not as eager to collect the greatest
number of versions as I am with Beethoven, I'd still be interested in
other recommendations. Are there other great performances of D959 that I
should check out? Have Yudina or Sofronitsky recorded it, for instance?
And how do other people's appreciation of *these* recordings compare to
mine? In view of Perahia's general reputation in rmcr, I wouldn't expect
this recording to have many admirers either. But if this is a no-no, can
someone give a reasoned disparagement that will make me listen with new
ears? (And the same, mutatis mutandis, for the other recordings.)
--
Frank Lekens
operamail.com is where it's really @
him...@my-deja.com
Serkin didn't seem to bother with beauty of tone, but he had steel in
those fingers: right from those vigorous opening chords, we know we're
in for something special. This is not, perhaps, the most lyrical of
interpretations, but it is one of great strength and emotional power.
In particular, that storm in the slow movement is cataclysmic.
Rgds, Himadri
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Alan Cooper
news:MPG.14de6032d...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
> My favourite Schubert sonata is D959. Unfortunately, this sonata seems
Based on your interesting posting, I have two recommendations. For an
uneccentric, mainstream view of the piece in which every effect is
beautifully judged, try to hear Andor Foldes, whose Electrola recording was
reissued on CD by EMI. The coupling is a D960 that I find unimpressive, but
the D959 is beautiful.
My own favorite is Bruce Hungerford's volatile and dramatic reading,
reissued in a Vanguard box with lots of other excellent stuff (mostly
Beethoven).
AC
Barry
CD is "volume 5" of a seven CD set of the Schubert sonatas. I have not had
a need to look further. Good luck!
Barry K.
"Frank Lekens" <kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.14de6032d...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
Jan Winter
<kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote:
(fine exposé snipped for space)
One of my first classical lp's was Serkin's D959. It opened my ears
for Schubert and I still love it, although you may find your storm
somewhat undercooled.
A HInstrP D959 completely different from Tan's is Jan Vermeulen's.
Very good sounding instrument, very powerful playing. With a beautiful
D946 as bonus.
--
Jan Winter, Amsterdam
(j.wi...@xs4all.nl)
MT
these, Brendel (1970s Philips), Kempff (DG) and Pollini (DG) stand out.
Regards,
MrT
Simon Roberts
: The six recordings that I had were Schnabel, Brendel (Philips), Lupu,
: Perahia, Zacharias and Melvyn Tan. At the moment I possess only 5,
: because I only needed one cursory listening to Tan to grab it out of the
: player and run to the cd store to sell it. I once bought it after having
: listened briefly in the shop, because I thought he played D960
: interestingly faster than most other pianists. But all I heard now was
: the constricted sound of an unattractive sounding fortepiano, played
: with little or no imagination. He's certainly done nothing to convince
: me that these sonatas can sound well on fortepianos. (Maybe I should try
: Staier? I usually like his recordings. But although in general I like
: HIP-performances as interesting (and sometimes superior) alternatives to
: non-HIP performances, I have a feeling that for me at least, Schubert's
: sonatas only "sound right" on a normal piano.)
Tan's Schubert, like his Beethoven, doesn't withstand more than minimal
scrutiny - dreadful in every way, including the unattractive, dul-toned
piano he uses. But if you're willing to persevere with HIP Schubert,
you can do much better (you can also do worse - avoid Trudeliese
Leonhardt complete set like the proverbial plague). At least four are
better - Tverskaya, Bilson, Staier and Vermeulen - of which I would
recommend the first three with enthusiasm. Tverskaya's (on Opus 111) is
my favorite of these - in fact, it may be my favorite performance of this
sonata, period. It obviously won't be for all tastes; it's a very
"romantic" performance, with ample rubato, fluctuations of tempo (the
basic pulse of each movement is slowish, but they never feel slow), more
tonal variety than you might expect from a fortepiano, and a generally
improvised, spontaneous air about it; at times i is quite impassioned,
while in that magical moment after the turbulence has died down in ii her
timing of the sequences of repeated four notes that hover over the repeat
of the initial theme is breathtaking. Staier and Bilson are more
straightforward, which may be more to your taste; both are superb in their
different ways, though I imagine most people would prefer the sound of
Staier's piano (a Fritz from c. 1825) to the rather husky sound of
Bilson's Lagrassa from 1815 (Bilson has one of the faster iis, and takes
iv at a less dozy pace than most). I would hate to be without any of
them, but would pick Tverskaya if I had to keep only one. Vermeulen is
not in their class, I think - I find his playing rather square in ii.
: Most crucial of all to my appreciation of this sonata is the 2nd
: movement. To describe this in very simplistic terms: it starts with a
: simple, quiet, pleasant Schubertian melody. Then comes a more agitated
: part, which builds up into a formidable storm that grinds to a halt two
: or three times with a crashing, Lisztian chord. And when the "storm" has
: abated, the initial theme returns, accompanied by a throbbing figuration
: that makes it sound totally transfigured, very much "the quiet *after*
: the storm". (Excuse the amateurish, impressionist description, both here
: and in my description of the performances below; I have no command
: whatsoever of the proper musicological terminology.)
I would rather read what you wrote than a musicological description....
: It is this movement especially that makes D959 my favourite among
: Schubert's sonatas, and the performance of this movement that I have
: concentrated on when I made a cursory comparison of the 5 recordings
: that I have.
: Lupu's was the first recording of it that I ever heard. It was good
: enough to immediately make me fall in love with the sonata, and for a
: long time it was (as such things go) the benchmark by which I judged
: every other recording of it. E.g., when I bought the Brendel twofer with
: Schubert's late sonatas, I was distinctly underwhelmed. One thing that
: stands out in Lupu's performance is the violence of the "storm" that he
: works up in ii, the ferocity of his Lisztian chords there. In
: comparison, Brendel's storm seems almost laid back - really a storm in a
: teacup. Other things in this and the other sonatas in the set seem OK;
: and I'll keep the set around because it's an OK "central" set (plus I
: seem to remember some rmcr-members whose opinion I value saying good
: things about it; so maybe I'll have to give it a few more good listens
: to hunt for possible hidden treasures). But certainly for D959 this is
: *not* my top recommendation.
I quite agree re all this. It's the performance I imprinted on too, and
despite the umpteen I've heard since I still like it every bit as much.
: It's true that Lupu plays ii a lot faster than anyone I've heard, but to
: my ears he doesn't sound too rushed, and the tempo doesn't butcher the
: melody. What it mainly does is make the movement a bit tighter and give
: more relative weight to the "storm" vis à vis the rest of the movement.
: On the whole, maybe he stresses the tenser aspects of the sonata a bit
: more than other pianists. But maybe other people do find his playing too
: rushed?
No, because he conveys the magic of the quiet music superbly. True, at
this tempo you can't do what Tverskaya, say, does with those batches of
four hovering repeated notes after the turbulent patch, but in his
different way he's almost as effective. (By the way, among the HIP
recordings, Staier's turbulence may be the most, well, turbulent; but all
three are good here.)
: All the other performers adopt a more leisurely tempo. Whether or not
: they take their cue from Schnabel I don't know - but they might well,
: because it's a wonderful performance. I don't know quite how to praise
: his recording. His storm may sound a tad less spectacularly wild than
: Lupu's, but it's formidable enough. And for the rest, I can only say
: that in most respects his playing sound "just right" - without being
: able to formulate exactly in what sense.
Agree again. One other recording I'm aware of comes close to Lupu's tempo
in ii, Kovacevich's (6:45 vs Lupu's 6:27). His turbulence isn't as good
as Lupu's, but otherwise I think his is a very good performance, darker
than Lupu's in i. At the other end of the spectrum in ii is - surprise! -
Afanassiev, who somehow manages to drag it out to 12:05. How it would
sound had I never heard another performance of this movement, I don't
know, but it seems just weird and I'm not convinced at all by it (as I
sometimes am by his weirdness).
[comments on Zacharias', which I've not heard in a while, snipped]
: Perahia's, on the other hand, sounds ideal to me in many respects. It
: doesn't supplant Schnabel, but for me it's the best of the performances
: in modern sound.
: I bought this disc at the strength of its Penguin rosette (this
: was before I'd even heard of rmcr and had my ears washed in it; am I
: excused?).
Maybe; your fondness for Lupu and Schnabel help....
[more comments on Perahia snipped; having long since disposed of this
recording I won't comment on it]
: But I do feel that Schubert's sonatas, and D959 in any case,
: benefit from a relative absence of posturing and extreme interpretive
: touches.
I know what you mean, I think, but it may just be that you've not yet
heard persuasive posturing.... Among the HIP recordings you should
probably try Staier rather than Tverskaya, but I hope you would try
Tverskaya's (can you audition in stores?) just in case her "posturing"
works....
: And although with Schubert I'm not as eager to collect the greatest
: number of versions as I am with Beethoven, I'd still be interested in
: other recommendations. Are there other great performances of D959 that I
: should check out? Have Yudina or Sofronitsky recorded it, for instance?
I don't think so. But among other recordings, in addition to Kovacevich's
you might want to try Dalberto/Denon, who is fairly imaginative but
doesn't do anything I would call "posturing", and perhaps most of
all Kuerti, who's also imaginative without being as unconventional as he
is with Beethoven. (His superb series of Schubert sonatas has recently
been collected into a box by Analekta - I assume these are the same
performances as I have on IMP.) I'm not as enthusiastic about
Hungerford's as Alan is; although he's first rate in the turbulence of ii
and its aftermath, and although he doesn't doze off in iv, I find most of
his playing here too plain and dry-eyed, his upper lip too stiff. Nor do
I share the enthusiasm expressed by someone else for Serkin; this may be
the worst performance of this piece I've heard - all angles and bones and
dourness.
I may be forgetting something shelved among mixed recitals or some such,
but for now I'll leave it there.
Simon
ESH Tooter
recordings. For a more lyrical (and I believe Schubert should be lyrical)
approach with balances and tempos finely judged, try Imogen Cooper. Well, her
six CD volumes are my standard for this music. Also beautiful, but again less
lyrical, is Charles Rosen (out of print). Of course, there's always Schnabel.
Not sure I agree that this is under-recorded. As a matter of fact, I'm still
looking for a performance of D.958 that gets all the humor out of the last
movement.
Tooter
Steve Emerson
performances of D960 than of D959, a work that seems to me just as
important.
Agree completely about the second movement, which I think is a defining
moment in all of Schubert. To go on a bit, I think it's particularly
important how the transition out of the "storm" is handled. This needs
to come across as not just the end of a violent moment (or storm), but
an elaborate metamorphosis of the horrific into the gorgeous -- a
gorgeousness that continues to carry with it evidence of the violence
that precedes. So that it suggests the rare sort of bliss that is
informed and conscious. --Or it could be thought of as a state of grace
that has been earned.
The most effective handlings of the metamorphosis itself are almost
voluptuous. I mean, the thing certainly suggests that sort of, uh --
climax, too.
Performances -- I've heard no one who seems big enough or dark enough at
the moment of the large, crashing chords. A strong left hand I think is
very important for this. The material itself almost doesn't want to
carry the weight it needs to. --I don't know why Richter never recorded
it -- he seems exactly the pianist who would get this right.
Agree on the whole about Lupu's lovely account. But I feel strongly that
he doesn't get the build to the big second-movement moment right, nor
the resolution. He doesn't start early enough, for one thing. Schnabel
by comparison begins building toward the high action not much more than
a minute into the movement; evidence of the coming darkness starts that
early, and his build is architecturally thought-through to an astounding
degree. Schnabel's moment of metamorphosis is lovely, as is his
incorporation of the dark content into the post-climax material. Still,
I wish he were bigger with those chords. And he doesn't play the rest of
the sonata with the same grace as Lupu. The third movement, for
instance, is exactly the kind of thing Lupu plays with a limpidity
that's unmatched.
I found Zacharias much the same as you do. A few of some interest:
Richard Goode's architecture in the second movement is very sound, but
he's nowhere near big enough in the high action. Eschenbach is
interesting here -- he doesn't really play the movement the way I want
to hear it, but he makes a pretty good case for his reading and he
offers some satisfactorily turbulent (and intelligent) playing. OTOH,
Goode's use of tone feels more like Schubert to me.
I'll be following the thread with great interest.
SE.
ESH Tooter
moment in all of Schubert.>>
"Defining," but what it defines is unclear as I know of nothing quite like it
in Schubert either before or after.
Coincidence: I just pulled this movement out and played it for a friend this
weekend after not having listened to it for almost a year. Then, this thread
appeared.
REG
write today, the superbowl calls, but have you tried the Serkin (Rudolf)? I
remember the 2nd movement as very convincing for me...will try to listen in
the next couple of days and write again. Thanks.
Frank Lekens <kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.14de6032d...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
vladimir
movement, which is too long by at least a third. No, make that a half.
Hell, it could have been a little bagatelle for a finale and I'd be happier.
It's almost an insurmountable challenge for the pianist who must try to
maintain interest in endless repetitions of that "Wings" theme. Schnabel
comes closest, but to tell the truth, when I listen to any of my recordings
of this sonata I omit the finale.
- Phil Caron
snowy
>
> My favourite Schubert sonata is D959. Unfortunately, this sonata seems
> to have been recorded by major pianists far less than the other late
> sonatas.
[big snip for brevity]
> And how do other people's appreciation of *these* recordings compare to
> mine?
Thanks for a very interesting post, I agree with most of your
description.
I don't dislike Zacharias' D959, I highly like Lupu's version, but
my vote (assuming I have only one vote) would definitely go to Schnabel.
In the violent and dark aspects (such as the central storm in ii you
mention, or the shadows that threaten the Elysian sweetness of iv), Lupu
may be Schnabel's equal -- with Lupu actually more relentlessly extreme
dynamic-wise, but Schnabel with more of a throbbing, passionate rhythmic
impetuosity (some approximations here and there which may be annoying
to some, but actually endear his version to me...)
But what really sets apart Schnabel's version for me, is the
overwhelming amount of sweet, lyrical sadness he manages to convey
- particularly (but not exclusively) in ii. The tempo at the outset
of ii, his telling way of marking each wonderful, otherworldly
modulation, allow the music to really sink in, while at the same time a
steady, on-going pulse (strong left-hand) convinces this is andantino,
not andante.
In Schnabel's hands, this movement sounds like a cool, open-shuttered
vision of despair; a clear winter's day so freezing cold that sunshine
and major fail to give any warmth anymore.
In comparison, I find Lupu sounding just a bit rushed and hasty in ii
(but of course this may be a parti-pris; as you say he makes out the
central storm to be the gravitational centre, with a sense of
tension and mounting disquiet present from the outset); his D959
comes across as a "slow movement-less sonata" (where Schnabel's is more
like a "sonata that almost has a slow movement").
Well, I'll try and hear the Afanassiev and Kuerti that Simon
mentions.
Did you (or anyone) notice that the early D 100-something sonata Lupu
plays on the same CD has a superb second movement which is like
an "Ur-form" of D959 ii ?
But now, let's all get back to serious matters again -- all this
discussing music only serves to evade the really important and
passionating issues which are the true purpose of this group (as
Mr Krause kindly made me realize): viz. what has been said here about
what has been said in reviews about the quality of the Naxos transfer
of Beecham Delius.
Robert.
todd...@my-deja.com
paulgo...@my-deja.com
I like D. 959 better than D. 960. My favorite modern version is
Perahia's - one of his very finest achievements. But I agree with
Mario that no one has approached Schnabel in this piece (D. 960 is
quite another story IMO).
--
Paul Goldstein
John Harkness
than reposting a 100+ line original post and adding one word at the
bottom, don't you?
You also know that you don't have to repost a whole massive post to
add a single word at the bottom?
John Harkness
On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:16:33 GMT, todd...@my-deja.com wrote:
>In article <MPG.14de6032d...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
> kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>> My favourite Schubert sonata is D959. Unfortunately, this sonata
>seems
>> to have been recorded by major pianists far less than the other late
>> sonatas. When I pulled out my Schubert sonatas the other day to try
>and
SNIP
MT
Perahia's - one of his very finest achievements. But I agree with
Mario that no one has approached Schnabel in this piece (D. 960 is
quite another story IMO).>>
Indeed, though Schnabel remains one of the top recording of this sonata.
I now favor Annie Fischer's recording on EMI. It's very energetic but
doesn't lose the magic that is so essential in this extraordinary music.
At first I didn't fully appreciate Annie's approach, but it has grown on
me. I don't like Richter's performances, much praised here and elsewhere
(he puts me to sleep, which *can't* be the idea, even for Schubert).
Another splendid D960 is that by Eschenbach on an old DG LP (never
reissued, I think). And Brendel's first Philips recording is top-notch.
Regards,
MrT
Simon Roberts
: You do know that you can top-post your response, like this, rather
: than reposting a 100+ line original post and adding one word at the
: bottom, don't you?
: You also know that you don't have to repost a whole massive post to
: add a single word at the bottom?
Especially given what that one word was....
Simon
todd...@my-deja.com
> Especially given what that one word was....
>
> Simon
>
I do apologize. I am just getting used to this software. (And the
censorship invoked on the moderated forums.)
John Harkness
>
>
>> Especially given what that one word was....
>>
>> Simon
>>
>
>I do apologize. I am just getting used to this software. (And the
>censorship invoked on the moderated forums.)
>
>
This isn't a moderated forum. It's simply a netiquette observation.
John Harkness
Dan Koren
Anyone who likes Kempff's D959 is by definition an
idiot -- so what do you expect?
dk
In article <3a75ab0f....@nntp.attcanada.ca>,
Jaime Jean
D959 which is one of my favourite moments in music.
Can't say I have heard many recordings of this work, but I feel very
comfortable with Pollini. In general, I find his Späte Klavierwerke box very
enjoyable.
Jaime
"Frank Lekens" <kraz...@operamail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.14de6032d...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
John Thomas
<dank...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Anyone who likes Kempff's D959 is by definition an
> idiot -- so what do you expect?
>
>
> dk
Sure, Dan; but we're all still waiting for *your* recommendation.
--
Regards,
John Thomas
Todd Kay
>Another splendid D960 is that by Eschenbach on an old DG LP (never
>reissued, I think).
Oh, sure it has; it's on his Philips Great Pianists volume. And I agree with
your characterization of it; it's one of the better recorded D.959s I've heard
(I confess, this is my favorite Schubert sonata and I've never heard a
recording with which I was completely satisfied, though Schnabel's come
closest), spontaneous and colorful, and probably the best thing in that
Eschenbach volume.
Steve Emerson
>
> MT wrote:
>
> >Another splendid D960 is that by Eschenbach on an old DG LP (never
> >reissued, I think).
>
> Oh, sure it has; it's on his Philips Great Pianists volume. And I agree with
> your characterization of it; it's one of the better recorded D.959s I've heard
And his D959 is an impeccable recording of D960.
SE.
Dan Koren
Schnabel, Eschenbach, Lupu, Ashkenazy, Leonskaja.
dk
MT
Yeah, he's an artist of the cross-dressed sonata. Seriously, *has* his
D960 been released on CD? My LP sounds fine, but I would still want to
buy the CD.
Regards,
MrT
snowy
[interesting thoughts snipped]
> Performances -- I've heard no one who seems big enough or dark enough > at the moment of the large, crashing chords. [in ii]
Not even Lupu ?
> --I don't know why Richter never recorded
> it -- he seems exactly the pianist who would get this right.
Yes, I've been regretting this as well !
>
> Agree on the whole about Lupu's lovely account. But I feel strongly that
> he doesn't get the build to the big second-movement moment right, nor
> the resolution. He doesn't start early enough, for one thing. Schnabel
> by comparison begins building toward the high action not much more than
> a minute into the movement; evidence of the coming darkness starts that
> early, and his build is architecturally thought-through to an astounding
> degree. Schnabel's moment of metamorphosis is lovely, as is his
> incorporation of the dark content into the post-climax material.
Emphatically agreed. More generally, I highly like Schnabel's
supple mobility in this sonata (cf. also his handling of transitions
in iii and iv), setting into relief large-scale effects and creating
a kind of organic wholeness.
Still,
> I wish he were bigger with those chords. And he doesn't play the rest of
> the sonata with the same grace as Lupu. The third movement, for
> instance, is exactly the kind of thing Lupu plays with a limpidity
> that's unmatched.
Yes. But should it really be limpid ?
I think I like to hear a degree of playfulness in iii (the whimsical
staccato, the waltz hints... a playful caprice overclouded by
melancholy in the central trio).
But then, perhaps playfulness doesn't necessarily exclude limpidity...
Robert.
Todd Kay
Oops.
Frank Lekens
si...@dept.english.upenn.edu says...
> : But I do feel that Schubert's sonatas, and D959 in any case,
> : benefit from a relative absence of posturing and extreme interpretive
> : touches.
>
> I know what you mean, I think, but it may just be that you've not yet
> heard persuasive posturing....
That's not unlikely. I'm certainly open to suggestions, and you have a
knack for suggesting performances that I'd never heard of before, but
which I turn out to like very much once I've found them. (E.g., I seem
to be one of the few in rmcr who now shares your enthusiasm for
Schiefen's Bach cello suites.) So...
> Among the HIP recordings you should
> probably try Staier rather than Tverskaya, but I hope you would try
> Tverskaya's (can you audition in stores?)
> just in case her "posturing" works....
In most stores I can audition cd's before I buy them. But I usually find
it a frustrating experience. I really need to listen to cd's more
extensively than I can do in a shop to form an opinion. So everything
that even sounds vaguely interesting, I usually buy.
By a freaky coincidence, I suddenly found three of the recordings
recommended in this thread in the cutout bins this week -- recordings
that I'd never seen in the shops before! (This happens mysteriously
often when things get recommended here.) So now I already have
Afanassiev (he *is* weird!), Dalberto and Eschenbach.
But your description of Tverskaya sounds very intriguing, so as soon as
I find her disc I'll give it a try. I'm definitely also on the lookout
for Kovacevich now (I'd forgotten he had recorded it), and maybe even
Serkin and Pollini.
I'd like to thank everybody for all the recommendations. I'm going to
give Perahia a little more competition on my shelves (in fact I already
have), and now I have a lot more comparative listening to look forward
to.
(Boy, is Afanassiev ever weird. He made me chuckle when I listened to
him on my discman in the train. People must have thought I was listening
to a standup comedian rather than to music.)
John Thomas
kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> (Boy, is Afanassiev ever weird. He made me chuckle when I listened to
> him on my discman in the train. People must have thought I was listening
> to a standup comedian rather than to music.)
> --
Was this a D.959 (which I haven't heard) or his D.960?
--
Regards,
John Thomas
Simon Roberts
: In article <MPG.14e14a10f...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
: kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
The two disc Denon set in question contains 958, 959, and 960 - not the
EMC 960 that most of us who have heard it like without reservation but a
later one. Here are the timings (timings of course don't tell
everything, but in this case they say quite a bit):
958: 13:12, 10:58, 4:25, 11:13
959: 19:36, 12:05; 6:28, 13:42
960: 28:13, 12:40, 5:06, 10:20
I wonder if he's met Marta Deyanova....
Simon
Steve Emerson
>
> Steve Emerson wrote:
> > Performances -- I've heard no one who seems big enough or dark enough > at the moment of the large, crashing chords. [in ii]
>
> Not even Lupu ?
He comes pretty close, but no. To go micro, I think what I want to hear
is a stronger left hand, and a little more of a delay to set up the
chords themselves. Those would be ways to make the event bigger and
darker-seeming.
A pianist I really wish would record this is Sokolov, whose D960 I like
a lot. Among other things, Sokolov is quite capable of delivering a
maximum of power, and his way with lyrical material is stellar.
Unfortunate: we never seem to get asked about these matters.
> > Still,
> > I wish he [Schnabel] were bigger with those chords. And he doesn't play the rest of
> > the sonata with the same grace as Lupu. The third movement, for
> > instance, is exactly the kind of thing Lupu plays with a limpidity
> > that's unmatched.
>
> Yes. But should it really be limpid ?
> I think I like to hear a degree of playfulness in iii (the whimsical
> staccato, the waltz hints... a playful caprice overclouded by
> melancholy in the central trio).
> But then, perhaps playfulness doesn't necessarily exclude limpidity...
It may to a degree. But Lupu's for me has some playfulness; either way,
I find that it works, and fits his conception of the work as a whole.
Not that I don't also like what you describe in Schnabel's.
SE.
ESH Tooter
possibilities. In this thread movement 2 is described as a storm. The problem
with that, otherwise correct, characterization is that it's a bit limiting. As
Schnabel plays this movement, there is no question that the movement is filled
with wind, sheets of rain, thunder, lightening, and cold.
For Imogen Cooper the storm is much more internal and mysterious. The little
two note figure that runs through the first section (a steady dripping in
Rosen's performance and strangely deemphasized by accenting the second note in
Schnabel) is is constantly changing in Cooper, sometimes melting away entirely.
The effect is part of the magic here. It is as if we are walking or dancing
through an elegant and twisted dream, about to perish. The second section
begins like a recitative leading, not so much rain and thunder, as emotional
crisis. The hard chords are spare, and the last roll of distant thunder is
really distant with new harmonies glowing beneath. when the initial theme
reemerges, it is song-like. Well, this is Schubert.
A short note on Rosen's performance. He has a unique way of stopping those
chords at the crisis. I've never heard anyone emphasize the stillness quite
that way, and I have no idea how he achieves the effect.
Isn't the point of any great piece of music that it opens itself up to many
interpretations? Definitive is not a concept I can live with.
Tooter
vladimir
Frank Lekens
esht...@aol.com says...
or two performances be proclaimed as definitive. Plurality is
everything.
OTOH, I hadn't exactly counted on getting such a *wide* variety of
recommendations - which is going to take its toll on my finances.
<grumble> add to watch list: Rosen, Cooper </grumble>
Incidentally: has Rosen's D959 been issued on cd? And is it at least an
early recording, from the 60s say? Because what I've heard of the later
Rosen I liked a lot less than his earlier Sony recordings.
ESH Tooter
<< Incidentally: has Rosen's D959 been issued on cd? And is it at least an
early recording, from the 60s say? Because what I've heard of the later
Rosen I liked a lot less than his earlier Sony recordings. >>
My copy of Rosen's D.959 is a cassette tape of a mono LP. My notes tell me it
was from Epic LC 3855. Sorry to tempt with the hard to find.
Tooter
joh...@my-deja.com
MT <matr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Schnabel, Schnabel, Schnabel. All the rest are distant seconds. Among
> these, Brendel (1970s Philips), Kempff (DG) and Pollini (DG) stand out.
What is the best transfer of the Schnabel?
I've found the following labels offering Schnabel's D959:
Magic Talent
Dante
Arkadia
Enterprise ("Piano Library" series)
Grammofono 2000
Pearl
The Magic Talent is very cheap, so if that's an acceptable transfer
I'll buy it. Any comments, positive or negative, on any of these
transfers would be welcomed.
Thanks
John
Frank Lekens
that. I think that is often very cheap too, and is quite likely to be
*at least* better than the Magic Talent. In fact the Dante set of
Schnabel's Beethoven has been praised as both the cheapest and either
the best or the second best transfer. (The best would then be Pearl --
an expensive label that always is supposed to have good transfers.)
Magic Talent is the label most often pissed on in this ng for having
awful overfiltered transfers, and/or pirating bona fide label's
transfers.
Gramofono 2000 seems to have the same reputation, though I'm not sure
and I'd like more info on it myself as well. I have a double with
Gieseking's Schumann on Gramofono 2000, and I can't immediately hear
anything wrong with it.
Piano Library is the same story, I think, though I'm not sure.
Arkadia is a little like Naxos, it seems: with a very variable quality
of transfer. Sometimes quite good, sometimes not so good.
I'd say go with the Dante. But if you want to be absolutely sure you
have the best transfer, and can afford it, you should probably get the
Pearl.
Sacqueboutier
I have the Dante and I think it's fine. Bear in mind, though,
that I have nothing but the EMI LPs to compare it with.
Clarity and tone are pretty good. I can recommend the
Dante set. However, they committed a great disservice
in omitting the Impromptus.
--
AAAAAHHHHH! The atmosphere! AAAAAAAHHHHHH!
Don Patterson
* DCP Music Printing
* Professional Computer Music Typeset
* Music Arrangements
* don...@olg.com
* Trombonist
* "The President's Own"
* United States Marine Band
John Thomas
(Z6571) coupled with the Schubert Piano Quintet and the Pro Arte.
Having no other transfers to compare it with, I wouldn't comment on
the sound. But at $4.95 USD you might as well put it into the pile of
possibles.
In article <MPG.14e5e8425...@newszilla.xs4all.nl>,
kraz...@xs4all.nl wrote:
--
Regards,
John Thomas