Lang Lang and Desert Island discs
Robert Marshall
He was on the bbc choosing the 8 pieces to take to a desert island
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
Michael Jackson Thriller
Chopin Minute Waltz
Pavarotti O Sole Mio
Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
And the one piece out of the 8 - Liszt 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody - I'd be
jumping off a cliff within the week if that was all I had
It's still on listen again :-)
Robert
--
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/
herman
Gotta be a sicko.
Christopher Webber
>One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
>maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
Robert, I sometimes wonder why we seem to expect "intellectual depth"
from young musicians, any more than we'd expect it from tennis players
or stand-up comedians.
Given the facts of Lang Lang's background and training, it's clear that
he has had no time to read Spinoza, spend time developing a taste for
the emotional refinements of late Beethoven, or to reflect in solitude
on what he is doing - very successfully - for a living.
He's a virtuoso executant with a supremely developed physical facility.
It's his fingers, and to a certain extent his communication skills,
which matter to his audiences, not his mental development. That side of
things may very well come later, with age and experience.
Meanwhile Lang Lang's little lis(z)t does not seem to me to invite
sneers. It is music he loves, played by fellow pianists he respects.
These are all pieces of a substance which has kept them in the
repertoire for many years: just because they are "granny's favourites"
doesn't mean they are worthless, quite the reverse.
Getting sniffy with the bad taste of crossover artists is something
we're all prone to do - I know I've been guilty of it. But the artists
who commit these mortal sins are not in the main "intellectuals"
consciously prostituting their High Calling, but gifted executant
musicians who, understandably, want to communicate with the largest
cross-section of the public as best they can.
Music is about Music Hall as much as it's about the Holy Temple of Art.
Nothing - absolutely nothing - is lost or spoiled by such activity.
--
___________________________
Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Webber
http://www.zarzuela.net
herman
>
> Getting sniffy with the bad taste of crossover artists is something
> we're all prone to do - I know I've been guilty of it. But the artists
> who commit these mortal sins are not in the main "intellectuals"
> consciously prostituting their High Calling, but gifted executant
> musicians who, understandably, want to communicate with the largest
> cross-section of the public as best they can.
>
That may be so. However the problem is that in our desperately success-
driven culture Lang Lang is now taken for a serious musician, rather
than a "gifted executant" emptying everything he performs of all
intellectual content. And it that way he's making it really really
hard for more serious musicians to survive.
Gerard
> On 6 nov, 11:07, Christopher Webber <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Getting sniffy with the bad taste of crossover artists is something
> > we're all prone to do - I know I've been guilty of it. But the
> > artists who commit these mortal sins are not in the main
> > "intellectuals" consciously prostituting their High Calling, but
> > gifted executant musicians who, understandably, want to communicate
> > with the largest cross-section of the public as best they can.
> >
> That may be so. However the problem is that in our desperately
> success- driven culture Lang Lang is now taken for a serious
> musician, rather than a "gifted executant" emptying everything he
> performs of all intellectual content.
But by who? And why is that a 'problem'?
> And it that way he's making it
> really really hard for more serious musicians to survive.
I surely doubt it.
William Sommerwerck
desert-island disks -- every last one of them should be rounded up and
dumped on some remote desert island.
> Michael Jackson Thriller
> Chopin Minute Waltz
> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
When I was new to classical music, my taste hadn't developed that much,
either -- but it wasn't /that/ shallow.
Christopher Webber
> However the problem is that in our desperately success- driven culture
>Lang Lang is now taken for a serious musician, rather than a "gifted
>executant" emptying everything he performs of all intellectual content.
Leaving aside the question as to whether what you say is in fact true of
Lang Lang's performances, do you not think that it is possible to be a
"serious musician" without striving for "intellectual content"?
The likes of us have been blaming virtuosi (and society!) for this very
failing for hundreds of years, but I do wonder whether our indignation
comes at least partly from a high romantic notion of the sanctity of
art, which gives very little space to that primary need to communicate
pleasure - a need which would have been recognised as easily by Mozart
as by Liszt, or indeed Lang Lang.
By any reasonable criterion, Lang Lang is undoubtedly a "serious
musician", in that he takes his technique and platform manner very
seriously indeed. Beyond that, I am intrigued that any popular artist
should be lambasted for not pandering to the refined tastes of the
cognoscenti!
Who are the losers?
Christopher Webber
>> Michael Jackson Thriller
>> Chopin Minute Waltz
>> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
>> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
>> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
>> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
>> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
>> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>
>When I was new to classical music, my taste hadn't developed that much,
>either -- but it wasn't /that/ shallow.
What would you say was "shallow" about these pieces? Or, at least, what
do you consider "shallow" about the artistry of (for example) Pavarotti
in a popular song such as "O sole mio"?
herman
>
> By any reasonable criterion, Lang Lang is undoubtedly a "serious
> musician", in that he takes his technique and platform manner very
> seriously indeed. Beyond that, I am intrigued that any popular artist
> should be lambasted for not pandering to the refined tastes of the
> cognoscenti!
>
> Who are the losers?
> --
I just told you. The musician-performers who don't do "platform"
antics and let the music do the communicating are not getting any
attention because the future, as perceived by the media and the record
companies, is with the sexy performers.
However, I may have different "serious criterions" than you do.
BTW chances are Lang Lang never contributed this list, and that this
is the work of his pr staff, who just mentioned the most popular tunes
which the largest possible audience, thereby giving the message Lang
Lang is "not a witch, he's you".
William Sommerwerck
> true of Lang Lang's performances, do you not think that it is
> possible to be a "serious musician" without striving for "intellectual
> content"?
But isn't the point of "serious" music -- of whatever genre -- that it's
supposed to engage the listener on something more than "It's got a tune I
can't forget" or "It's got a great beat I can dance to"?
> The likes of us have been blaming virtuosi (and society!) for this very
> failing for hundreds of years, but I do wonder whether our indignation
> comes at least partly from a high Romantic notion of the sanctity of
> art, which gives very little space to that primary need to communicate
> pleasure -- a need which would have been recognised as easily by
> Mozart as by Liszt, or indeed Lang Lang.
I detest "sanctified" art. (There's an excellent review in the current
"Fanfare" attacking a supposedly "objective" performance of (I think) the
"Goldbergs".) And I've never heard anyone criticize Mozart for writing works
that simultaneously appealed to the sophisticated listener and the naive.
Indeed, that could be considered a mark of great talent.
Lang Lang's output has been notable for its general /lack/ of good
performances -- ones that bring real listening pleasure. (There I am with
the cigarette ads again.) It's very easy to criticize him for liking
something he can't provide himself.
> By any reasonable criterion, Lang Lang is undoubtedly a "serious
> musician", in that he takes his technique and platform manner very
> seriously indeed. Beyond that, I am intrigued that any popular artist
> should be lambasted for not pandering to the refined tastes of the
> cognoscenti!
I think that whether someone is a "serious" musician is shown by their work
over years, if not decades. No one expects a musician in his 20s to be at
the level of a performer in his/her 40s or 60s. But one does expect
something that goes at least a little beyond simple mechanical virtuosity
(eg, Hilary Hahn). I don't think Lang Lang has shown it yet.
William Sommerwerck
> message news:79EDbPDi...@217.169.1.80...
>> William Sommerwerck <grizzle...@comcast.net> writes:
>>> Michael Jackson Thriller
>>> Chopin Minute Waltz
>>> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
>>> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
>>> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
>>> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
>>> Yellow River in Wrath (from the Y R concerto)
>>> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>> When I was new to classical music, my taste hadn't developed
>> that much, either -- but it wasn't /that/ shallow.
> What would you say was "shallow" about these pieces? Or, at least,
> what do you consider "shallow" about the artistry of (for example)
> Pavarotti in a popular song such as "O sole mio"?
If I asked someone to list their favorite works, I'd expect most of their
list to comprise pieces that were /not/ in the "top 100". * Isn't the point
of such a list to tell us something about the unique interests of a
particular listener? What would be the point of listing pieces that are
almost universally liked? One assumes a professional musician will have been
exposed to a wide variety of music, and at least half of his/her list will
be unusual works that mirror his/her idiosyncratic tastes. I'm sure that had
performers as varied as Horowitz, Brendel, or Perahia been asked for a list
of favorites at the same age, they would have delivered much more
interesting responses.
Looking at it from the perspective of simple musical snobbishness... Certain
works are looked down on simply because they're immediately appealing. A
"serious" listener is supposed to develop a taste for more-complex and/or
more-difficult works which (presumably) bring a greater degree of "real"
musical satisfaction. ** Peter Schickele described one of PDQ's pieces as
"spare, abstruse, hard-to-get-to, and therefore [one of his] greatest
works".
* My list would include such works as Schumann's "Konzertstuck for 4 Horns"
and Schickele's "Iphigenia in Brooklyn". I also have a fondness for the
"Super Chicken" theme song. It's fun to sing, especially the "bawking".
** Yes, I know that sounds like a '60s cigarette commercial.
Kip Williams
> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>
> One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
> maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
Bernstein's an eh-okay performance, but I wouldn't go so far as to say good.
Kip W
Kerrison
Elisabeth Schwarzkopf was notorious for taking to her Desert Island
eight recordings all of herself.
fyreflye
up were Nutcracker Suite and Scheherezade.) But while still a teen I
had graduated to the Beethoven symphonies and was listening to Bartok.
It would be nice if someone who "represents" serious music used his
position to try to broaden listeners' tastes, but apparently those
happy few who are fated to become serious listeners will broaden their
own tastes, while the vast majority who are exposed to serious music
will still be buying whatever PBS features. Classical music survives
not because of the tastes of its listeners but because of the ever new
stream of young artists who want to learn it and perform it. And that
includes even Lang Lang, who may someday grow up and broaden his own
interests just like the rest of us did.
Gerard
> It would be nice if someone who "represents" serious music used his
> position to try to broaden listeners' tastes,
Why does he "represent" something like "serious music"?
He does not. It is not his holy task to broaden listener's tastes. (Radio
stations could do, but they also prefer Four Seasons and Boleros.)
> but apparently those
> happy few who are fated to become serious listeners will broaden their
> own tastes, while the vast majority who are exposed to serious music
> will still be buying whatever PBS features. Classical music survives
> not because of the tastes of its listeners but because of the ever new
> stream of young artists who want to learn it and perform it.
I doubt so. Do you mean because they are hyped in the press?
> And that
> includes even Lang Lang, who may someday grow up and broaden his own
> interests just like the rest of us did.
I suppose he is free to do so or not, whatever he likes.
wimpie
>
> That may be so. However the problem is that in our desperately success-
> driven culture Lang Lang is now taken for a serious musician, rather
> than a "gifted executant" emptying everything he performs of all
> intellectual content. And it that way he's making it really really
> hard for more serious musicians to survive.
It's actually much worse than that... LL is called "one of the 100
(Who on earth invents these lists?) hottest persons on the planet" or
"persons that counts nowadays".. Na well, as far as I am concerned I
still can't see LL as a "serious musician".
W
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
"Christopher Webber" <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> schreef in bericht
news:m9UEbzCi...@217.169.1.80...
> herman <her...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> However the problem is that in our desperately success- driven culture
>> Lang Lang is now taken for a serious musician, rather than a "gifted
>> executant" emptying everything he performs of all intellectual content.
> Leaving aside the question as to whether what you say is in fact true of
> Lang Lang's performances, do you not think that it is possible to be a
> "serious musician" without striving for "intellectual content"?
As Liszt tells us in his "Des Bohémiens": people without education and
without any musical training at all can be great (and therefore serious)
musicians.
Henk
Bob Lombard
"HvT" <hvtuijl- SPAM- @xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:4cd57e13$0$34849$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "Christopher Webber" <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> schreef in bericht
> news:m9UEbzCi...@217.169.1.80...
>
>> Lang Lang's performances, do you not think that it is possible to be a
>> "serious musician" without striving for "intellectual content"?
>
> As Liszt tells us in his "Des Bohémiens": people without education and
> without any musical training at all can be great (and therefore serious)
> musicians.
>
> Henk
tenuous - because the meaning of the word 'intellectual' is not necessarily
much related to 'intellect'. Many jazz musicians who meet Liszt's
description were/are serious musicians; same goes for musicians in most
genres.
I am pretty sure that Lang Lang is serious about his career, and therefore
is serious about his performances. The music is a part of those
performances, so it is reasonable to suggest that he is serious about the
music he plays. 'Serious' and 'shallow' are not antonyms.
bl
number_six
wrote:
The shallowness of the Yellow River, of course, varies greatly
depending on the time of year. In Wrath, I suppose, would be one of
the deeper sections!
JohnGavin
Is that something you made up as a generalized swipe at her, or is it
based on any sort of fact?
William Sommerwerck
> Is that something you made up as a generalized swipe
> at her, or is it based on any sort of fact?
I believe I saw this in "BBC Music".
Bob Lombard
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzle...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ib480m$iik$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
in which she took part. The difference doesn't seem all that subtle to me.
bl
herman
>
> I am pretty sure that Lang Lang is serious about his career, and therefore
> is serious about his performances. The music is a part of those
> performances, so it is reasonable to suggest that he is serious about the
> music he plays. 'Serious' and 'shallow' are not antonyms.
>
> bl
You are so clueless it beggars belief. I'm not saying a serious
musician should have a couple Hegel quotes ready, and Adorno, too.
I, and several other people here, are talking about an engagement with
the music and the composer (in some cases this might entail studying
historical sources), rather than just calculating what gets the most
applause - including making funny faces and saying you'll take the
ten most popular tunes along to a desert island.
Yes, Lang Lang and his handlers are dead serious about his career. The
rest of your post is a logical excercise that is not borne out by
anything LL does - including this silly list.
JohnGavin
wrote:
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
I did look it up, and there's truth to it, but she also is quoted as
saying that she didin't like most of her recordings.
Bob Lombard
"herman" <her...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c0332ca-7470-4b4b...@e14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Methinks thou dost assume too much; about me and probably about Lang Lang.
Held in the sway of egoism, magical powers of discernment are often
imagined. Personally, I know little about Lang Lang, except that he is
young. The Rhapsody in Blue was quite attractive music to me when I was
young; Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto too. I am now an Old Fart, but not a
Bitter Old Fart.
bl
herman
> Personally, I know little about Lang Lang, except that he is
> young. The Rhapsody in Blue was quite attractive music to me when I was
> young; Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto too. I am now an Old Fart, but not a
> Bitter Old Fart.
>
> bl
That's why I said you were clueless. LL's age (28 yrs) is no excuse.
He'll be playing this silly stuff in ten years' time, too. There are
many excellent pianists younger than LL who are playing beautiful, or
as you would say, "serious", music and have been playing this for
years. It's his choice to play Bumblebee &c because it makes more
money.
Gerard
So what's your problem?
William Sommerwerck
> about Lang Lang. Held in the sway of egoism, magical powers
> of discernment are often imagined. Personally, I know little about
> Lang Lang, except that he is young. The Rhapsody in Blue was
> quite attractive music to me when I was young; Tchaikovsky's 1st
> piano concerto too. I am now an Old Fart, but not a Bitter Old Fart.
You mean, you haven't become fartbisseneh. (Ouch!)
SPAM- @xs4all.nl HvT
"herman" <her...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:6e9fcb72-d2e2-4ed3...@s4g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
My problem with LL is not that he does or doesn't play 'serious' music, acts
on stage as a karate kid being kicked in the belly and cries all the way to
the bank. My problem is that he doesn't play whatever he plays in such a way
that it's easy to listen to. Rubinstein's Minute Waltz is great music, so is
Horowitz's Hungarian Rhapsody, Cliburn's Tchaikovsky concerto etc. etc. LL's
version of these pieces is too often rather messy and shapeless.
Henk
Kerrison
I have in front of me the complete list of the recordings she chose,
alongside those of over 1700 other "castaways," as printed in Roy
Plomley's 'Desert Island Discs' (published 1984 by Hutchinson and Co.
Ltd.). Her own solo vocal recordings of songs by Mozart and Wolf are
listed alongside the operatic sets from which she played her own
contributions, such as Hansel and Gretel, The Mastersingers and
Falstaff. So it wasn't a "generalised swipe" at all but was an
accurate statement of fact.
William Sommerwerck
acts
> on stage as a karate kid being kicked in the belly and cries all the way
to
> the bank. My problem is that he doesn't play whatever he plays in such a
way
> that it's easy to listen to. Rubinstein's Minute Waltz is great music, so
is
> Horowitz's Hungarian Rhapsody, Cliburn's Tchaikovsky concerto etc. etc.
LL's
> version of these pieces is too often rather messy and shapeless.
One might say that there's no such thing as shallow music, only shallow
performances.
Christopher Webber
>The musician-performers who don't do "platform" antics and let the
>music do the communicating are not getting any attention because the
>future, as perceived by the media and the record companies, is with the
>sexy performers.
Don't you agree that the past and present (as well as the future) has
been with these sexy performers? Or can you cite a golden time and place
where "serious" merit without showmanship was more feted than the
frivolous, the fashionable and the ephemeral?
How many non-sexy performers have failed to achieve mass popularity
because of Lang Lang's platform antics?
This is the way the world wags; and I'm not altogether sure that it's
necessarily a bad thing for music and musicians to have to modify their
sacred calling in order to court come sort of popularity and earn a
crust.
For example, what do you think of the case of Shostakovich, instructed
to popularise his work or (literally) perish? Was he a worse composer
after that forced stylistic change?
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:4cd57e13$0$34849$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl:
> As Liszt tells us in his "Des Bohémiens": people without education and
> without any musical training at all can be great (and therefore serious)
> musicians.
But as Arthur Rubinstein demonstrated by example, a person who makes a point
of seeking out culture and knowledge can transform himself from a merely
"great" musician to a supremely great one.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in
> Methinks thou dost assume too much; about me and probably about Lang
> Lang. Held in the sway of egoism, magical powers of discernment are
> often imagined. Personally, I know little about Lang Lang, except that
> he is young. The Rhapsody in Blue was quite attractive music to me when
> I was young; Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto too. I am now an Old Fart,
> but not a Bitter Old Fart.
I enjoy "Rhapsody in Blue" very much for what it is, a brash and original
work of genius by a young composer feeling his way. But it's a dessert.
Now, there's nothing wrong with dessert, but it seems to me that the whole of
Lang Lang's list is desserts, no entrées at all.
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:ib3e2o$66r$1...@news.eternal-
september.org:
> I think most, if not all, of Lang Lang's /own/ recordings would qualify as
> desert-island disks -- every last one of them should be rounded up and
> dumped on some remote desert island.
LOL!
> When I was new to classical music, my taste hadn't developed that much,
> either -- but it wasn't /that/ shallow.
Teppwell predicts that in a few years time, Lang Lang's PR people will
announce that his next release will be Prokofiev. We'll all look forward to
it in anticipation ... and it will turn out to be "Peter and the Wolf,"
arranged for piano by Lang Lang, and narrated both in English and in Mandarin
by Lang Lang in a translation by Lang Lang.
Matthew B. Tepper
the following letters to be typed in news:m14obuc...@capuchin.co.uk:
> I can't see any coverage of this here, so for the Lang Lang haters...
>
> He was on the bbc choosing the 8 pieces to take to a desert island
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
>
> Michael Jackson Thriller
> Chopin Minute Waltz
> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>
> One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
> maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
>
> And the one piece out of the 8 - Liszt 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody - I'd be
> jumping off a cliff within the week if that was all I had
>
> It's still on listen again :-)
>
> Robert
How utterly ... COMMON. That's the only word for it.
wimpie
> >
> > Elisabeth Schwarzkopf was notorious for taking to her Desert Island
> > eight recordings all of herself.
>
> Is that something you made up as a generalized swipe at her, or is it
> based on any sort of fact?
No, it's true, I heard the same story from a friend (who obviously
heard the same programme).
The German soprano Anneliese Rotherberger was exactly the same: she
once appeared on the Dutch radio (a programme in which Dutch persons
present their musical choice, so I never quite got why she was
invited) and she was playing almost exclusively her own recordings.
W.
Kip Williams
> Teppwell predicts that in a few years time, Lang Lang's PR people will
> announce that his next release will be Prokofiev. We'll all look forward to
> it in anticipation ... and it will turn out to be "Peter and the Wolf,"
> arranged for piano by Lang Lang, and narrated both in English and in Mandarin
> by Lang Lang in a translation by Lang Lang.
Can you prove it did not happen??
I wouldn't mind a nice piano recording of the piece, but I'd like to be
able to turn the narrator off sometimes.
Kip W
Ray Hall
>> Leaving aside the question as to whether what you say is in fact
>> true of Lang Lang's performances, do you not think that it is
>> possible to be a "serious musician" without striving for "intellectual
>> content"?
>
> supposed to engage the listener on something more than "It's got a tune I
> can't forget" or "It's got a great beat I can dance to"?
>
>
>> The likes of us have been blaming virtuosi (and society!) for this very
>> failing for hundreds of years, but I do wonder whether our indignation
>> comes at least partly from a high Romantic notion of the sanctity of
>> art, which gives very little space to that primary need to communicate
>> pleasure -- a need which would have been recognised as easily by
>> Mozart as by Liszt, or indeed Lang Lang.
>
> I detest "sanctified" art. (There's an excellent review in the current
> "Fanfare" attacking a supposedly "objective" performance of (I think) the
> "Goldbergs".) And I've never heard anyone criticize Mozart for writing works
> that simultaneously appealed to the sophisticated listener and the naive.
> Indeed, that could be considered a mark of great talent.
>
> Lang Lang's output has been notable for its general /lack/ of good
> performances -- ones that bring real listening pleasure. (There I am with
> the cigarette ads again.) It's very easy to criticize him for liking
> something he can't provide himself.
>
>
>> By any reasonable criterion, Lang Lang is undoubtedly a "serious
>> musician", in that he takes his technique and platform manner very
>> seriously indeed. Beyond that, I am intrigued that any popular artist
>> should be lambasted for not pandering to the refined tastes of the
>> cognoscenti!
>
> I think that whether someone is a "serious" musician is shown by their work
> over years, if not decades. No one expects a musician in his 20s to be at
> the level of a performer in his/her 40s or 60s. But one does expect
> something that goes at least a little beyond simple mechanical virtuosity
> (eg, Hilary Hahn). I don't think Lang Lang has shown it yet.
LL reminds me of those pianists who were often engaged in shopping malls
to demonstrate some make of piano. They often went by the assumed name
of someone Polish. The names are instantly forgettable, as is the
playing, as is the muzak, as is the pain (mental and physical).
I am sure they drove people away, as people walked by quickly,
presumably to erase the sound.
Ray Hall, Taree
Ray Hall
to demonstrate some make of piano. They often went by the name of
someone Polish. The names are instantly forgettable, as is the playing,
as is the muzak.
I am sure they drove people away, as people walked by quickly to erase
Ray Hall
> herman <her...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> The musician-performers who don't do "platform" antics and let the
>> music do the communicating are not getting any attention because the
>> future, as perceived by the media and the record companies, is with
>> the sexy performers.
>
> Don't you agree that the past and present (as well as the future) has
> been with these sexy performers? Or can you cite a golden time and place
> where "serious" merit without showmanship was more feted than the
> frivolous, the fashionable and the ephemeral?
>
> How many non-sexy performers have failed to achieve mass popularity
> because of Lang Lang's platform antics?
>
> This is the way the world wags; and I'm not altogether sure that it's
> necessarily a bad thing for music and musicians to have to modify their
> sacred calling in order to court come sort of popularity and earn a crust.
>
> For example, what do you think of the case of Shostakovich, instructed
> to popularise his work or (literally) perish? Was he a worse composer
> after that forced stylistic change?
Earning a crust is OK. Elton John earns a good crust too, but isn't
shown or promoted as a classical artist.
Ray Hall, Taree
Charles Milton Ling
> I can't see any coverage of this here, so for the Lang Lang haters...
>
> He was on the bbc choosing the 8 pieces to take to a desert island
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
>
> Michael Jackson Thriller
> Chopin Minute Waltz
> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>
> One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
> maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
>
> And the one piece out of the 8 - Liszt 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody - I'd be
> jumping off a cliff within the week if that was all I had
>
> It's still on listen again :-)
>
> Robert
I am not surprised. He might even have been serious.
Greetings to all,
Charley
--
Charles Milton Ling
Vienna, Austria
Dave Cook
> I wouldn't mind a nice piano recording of the piece, but I'd like to be
> able to turn the narrator off sometimes.
Bernstein did it without narrator. No piano, though.
Dave Cook
David Wake
> On 6 nov, 11:07, Christopher Webber <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Getting sniffy with the bad taste of crossover artists is something
>> we're all prone to do - I know I've been guilty of it. But the
> > artists
>> who commit these mortal sins are not in the main "intellectuals"
>> consciously prostituting their High Calling, but gifted executant
>> musicians who, understandably, want to communicate with the largest
>> cross-section of the public as best they can.
>>
> That may be so. However the problem is that in our desperately
> success-
> driven culture Lang Lang is now taken for a serious musician, rather
> than a "gifted executant" emptying everything he performs of all
> intellectual content. And it that way he's making it really really
> hard for more serious musicians to survive.
What is your evidence for that last claim? It seems at least equally
plausible that, by generating huge popular interest in the piano in
China, he may be creating greater opportunities for all pianists,
whether "serious" or not.
Did de Pachmann make it harder for Schnabel to survive? Did Liberace
impede Pollini's career?
Gerard
>
> LL reminds me of those pianists who were often engaged in shopping
> malls to demonstrate some make of piano. They often went by the
> assumed name of someone Polish. The names are instantly forgettable,
> as is the playing, as is the muzak, as is the pain (mental and
> physical).
>
> I am sure they drove people away, as people walked by quickly,
> presumably to erase the sound.
>
Why are you sure? Did you see it happen?
I've seen such pianists here too, and they attracked a lot of people who stayed
to listen as long as they could.
Gerard
Exactly.
Does André Rieu make it hard for other musicians to survive? I don't think so.
Maybe he arouses a lot of interest in music.
Gerard
> The German soprano Anneliese Rotherberger was exactly the same: she
> once appeared on the Dutch radio (a programme in which Dutch persons
> present their musical choice, so I never quite got why she was
> invited)
Well, they also invited other non-Dutch persons, and also Dutch persons who
never heard classical music before.
herman
Well, I'm glad all the stories about the major labels mainly being
interested in young performers with pretty faces turn out to be
untrue. No pressure on established performers at all to sing show
tunes either... Everything is just spinning along just fine.
William Sommerwerck
There aren't many cliffs on desert islands.
Kip Williams
No reason there shouldn't be. "Desert" in this case meant "deserted," so
the cliché image of a sandy hump under ten feet in diameter, with one
palm tree at the center, isn't inevitable.
Kip W
Christopher Webber
>No reason there shouldn't be. "Desert" in this case meant "deserted,"
>so the cliché image of a sandy hump under ten feet in diameter, with
>one palm tree at the center, isn't inevitable.
Indeed not. Robinson Crusoe would have been in even more of a tight spot
had his own desert island followed that cliche. He *certainly* had
cliffs to play with!
To return to our onions (or yams), I must say that Lang Lang came across
as genuine in his enthusiasm for the pieces he chose. He praised the
pianists whose records he chose with generous acuity. Personally he was
courteous and modest; and, not least when it came to narrating the
traumatic events of his childhood, he seemed far from egotistical.
His love for what he does, and how it communicates, spoke well for him
on Desert Island Discs, however highly or not he may be rated as a
musician by the Elders of the Pianistic Tribe.
O
<dffabd89-caa2-4997...@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
This is nothing new - appearences have always been important. Back
then, it was called "stage presence," but audiences don't blind
audition the artists. People who are good looking have a leg up on
those that don't - and it's not only in classical music.
> No pressure on established performers at all to sing show
> tunes either... Everything is just spinning along just fine.
Bolet was regarded as a "Hollywood artist" because he did the
soundtrack for a Liszt movie. Earl Wild slummed with the Boston Pops,
and was the house pianist for Sid Caesar and the "Show of Shows." The
pressure is that artists have to make money.
-Owen
William Sommerwerck
performances -- not which pieces of music are his favorites. Unfortunately,
the latter do nothing to enhance his credibility as an insightful musician.
Bob Lombard
"Christopher Webber" <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:WiV4MjAk...@217.169.1.80...
> Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> writes:
>>No reason there shouldn't be. "Desert" in this case meant "deserted," so
>>the cliché image of a sandy hump under ten feet in diameter, with one palm
>>tree at the center, isn't inevitable.
>
> Indeed not. Robinson Crusoe would have been in even more of a tight spot
> had his own desert island followed that cliche. He *certainly* had cliffs
> to play with!
>
> To return to our onions (or yams), I must say that Lang Lang came across
> as genuine in his enthusiasm for the pieces he chose. He praised the
> pianists whose records he chose with generous acuity. Personally he was
> courteous and modest; and, not least when it came to narrating the
> traumatic events of his childhood, he seemed far from egotistical.
>
> His love for what he does, and how it communicates, spoke well for him on
> Desert Island Discs, however highly or not he may be rated as a musician
> by the Elders of the Pianistic Tribe.
> --
The Swamp Alders. . . stunted, burn too hot.
bl
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:4WyBo.21536$L82....@newsfe24.iad:
I'm reminded of my favorite "Far Side" panel....
number_six
<s...@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't see any coverage of this here, so for the Lang Lang haters...
>
> He was on the bbc choosing the 8 pieces to take to a desert island
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
>
> Michael Jackson Thriller
> Chopin Minute Waltz
> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>
> One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
> maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
>
> And the one piece out of the 8 - Liszt 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody - I'd be
> jumping off a cliff within the week if that was all I had
>
> It's still on listen again :-)
>
> Robert
> La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
> Links and thingshttp://rmstar.blogspot.com/
Looking at LL's DID list one more time, in a way it's stranger than I
initially thought. Not only why pick Jackson, but if he is to be on
the list, why *that* song when others (to my taste) are so much
better.
Why *that* Chopin waltz (when there are much better), why *that*
Pavarotti performance, etc.
In the end, preference is personal, as so many others have pointed
out. These choices have no overlap whatever with what I would have
picked at his age, or any age. Even though they look like they were
picked by his marketing department, I'm assuming these are really his
choices, not his marketing department's choices, and that tells me he
has a very long journey yet to make. But he is a young man, and he has
the time to make it.
herman
> Looking at LL's DID list one more time, in a way it's stranger than I
> initially thought. Not only why pick Jackson, but if he is to be on
> the list, why *that* song when others (to my taste) are so much
> better.
>
> Why *that* Chopin waltz (when there are much better), why *that*
> Pavarotti performance, etc.
>
> In the end, preference is personal, as so many others have pointed
> out. These choices have no overlap whatever with what I would have
> picked at his age, or any age. Even though they look like they were
> picked by his marketing department, I'm assuming these are really his
> choices, not his marketing department's choices, and that tells me he
> has a very long journey yet to make. But he is a young man, and he has
> the time to make it.
It's pretty simple. He picked those pieces (or his publicist did)
because they are the most popular pieces with the largest possible
audience. The message is: I'm just like you. That's all there is to it.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:7aa703e6-f70d-4963-a392-7ae968e14901
@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com:
> On 7 nov, 18:40, number_six <cyberi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Looking at LL's DID list one more time, in a way it's stranger than I
>> initially thought. Not only why pick Jackson, but if he is to be on the
>> list, why *that* song when others (to my taste) are so much better.
>>
>> Why *that* Chopin waltz (when there are much better), why *that*
>> Pavarotti performance, etc.
>>
>> In the end, preference is personal, as so many others have pointed out.
>> These choices have no overlap whatever with what I would have picked at
>> his age, or any age. Even though they look like they were picked by his
>> marketing department, I'm assuming these are really his choices, not his
>> marketing department's choices, and that tells me he has a very long
>> journey yet to make. But he is a young man, and he has the time to make
>> it.
He only "has the time" if the people running his career allow it. Remember
that sequence in "Arthur Rubinstein -- Love of Life" where he shows how
badly he played Chopin's "Winter Wind" Etude, and still got wild acclaim
from (I think) Parisian audiences? There's a bit of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS8HKmJL0HI
Rubinstein withdrew from performing for a time, to work on his technique
but also to learn about the world in general, so as to become a more mature
artist. Do you think Lang Lang's minders at his new label (Sony, God help
us) are going to let him miss any engagements? I'm sure their noses would
begin to itch just thinking about it.
> It's pretty simple. He picked those pieces (or his publicist did) because
> they are the most popular pieces with the largest possible audience. The
> message is: I'm just like you. That's all there is to it.
In other words, he's saying, "I am not a witch, er, an elitist; I am you."
And we know just how well THAT works.
Christopher Howell
> On Nov 6, 7:32 pm, JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 6, 2:58 pm, "Bob Lombard" <thorsteinnos...@vermontel.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:ib480m$iik$1...@news.eternal-september.org...>>> Elisabeth Schwarzkopf was notorious for taking to her
> > > >>> desert Island eight recordings all of herself.
>
> > > >> Is that something you made up as a generalized swipe
> > > >> at her, or is it based on any sort of fact?
>
>
> > > Except that they were not recordings "all of herself". They were recordings
> > > in which she took part. The difference doesn't seem all that subtle to me.
>
> > > bl
>
> > I did look it up, and there's truth to it, but she also is quoted as
> > saying that she didin't like most of her recordings.
>
> I have in front of me the complete list of the recordings she chose,
> alongside those of over 1700 other "castaways," as printed in Roy
> Plomley's 'Desert Island Discs' (published 1984 by Hutchinson and Co.
> Ltd.). Her own solo vocal recordings of songs by Mozart and Wolf are
> listed alongside the operatic sets from which she played her own
> contributions, such as Hansel and Gretel, The Mastersingers and
> Falstaff. So it wasn't a "generalised swipe" at all but was an
> accurate statement of fact.- Nascondi testo citato
>
> - Mostra testo citato -
It has been suggested that she misunderstood the nature of the
programme and actually thought she was supposed to be choosing her 8
favourite recordings of herself. But then, if Legge was still alive
when she took part in the programme, would she have chosen the discs
herself anyway? (now that's a generalized swipe ..)
Chris Howell
laraine
wrote:
> Robert Marshall <s...@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> >One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
> >maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
>
> from young musicians, any more than we'd expect it from tennis players
> or stand-up comedians.
>
> Given the facts of Lang Lang's background and training, it's clear that
> he has had no time to read Spinoza, spend time developing a taste for
> the emotional refinements of late Beethoven, or to reflect in solitude
> on what he is doing - very successfully - for a living.
>
> He's a virtuoso executant with a supremely developed physical facility.
> It's his fingers, and to a certain extent his communication skills,
> which matter to his audiences, not his mental development. That side of
> things may very well come later, with age and experience.
>
> Meanwhile Lang Lang's little lis(z)t does not seem to me to invite
> sneers. It is music he loves, played by fellow pianists he respects.
> These are all pieces of a substance which has kept them in the
> repertoire for many years: just because they are "granny's favourites"
> doesn't mean they are worthless, quite the reverse.
>
> Getting sniffy with the bad taste of crossover artists is something
> we're all prone to do - I know I've been guilty of it. But the artists
> who commit these mortal sins are not in the main "intellectuals"
> consciously prostituting their High Calling, but gifted executant
> musicians who, understandably, want to communicate with the largest
> cross-section of the public as best they can.
>
> Nothing - absolutely nothing - is lost or spoiled by such activity.
> --
> ___________________________
> Christopher Webber, Blackheath, London, UK.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Webberhttp://www.zarzuela.net
We need to remember that LL is likely more
familiar with the piano repertoire,
not symphonies, ballet, etc.
Also, my experience is that piano teachers
don't encourage too much listening of others
until college age because they want you to
develop your own original style.
And in China, living in a poor village where
one's father is trying to make sure that
you don't have to queue for the toilet (I
liked that story), one might not have
much opportunity to listen to others.
It seems that he is trying to be spontaneous
here.... give a list of pieces personally
meaningful that you think important....
not supposed to be with the tone of a
professor...
And maybe he would like to play some of
these too on the desert island... It
could take many years to perfect a
Minute Waltz.
C.
Kip Williams
> We need to remember that LL is likely more
> familiar with the piano repertoire,
> not symphonies, ballet, etc.
Indeed, and when I was hanging around a college music department, it
seemed to me that even the good players didn't explore a lot. Perhaps as
an over-aged amateur, I just had more time for that sort of thing. (And
obviously, there are plenty who don't fit in that generalization anyway.
I shouldn't have to mention it, but someone else might if I don't.)
Kip W
O
Tepper <oy兀earthlink.net> wrote:
> > It's pretty simple. He picked those pieces (or his publicist did) because
> > they are the most popular pieces with the largest possible audience. The
> > message is: I'm just like you. That's all there is to it.
>
> In other words, he's saying, "I am not a witch, er, an elitist; I am you."
> And we know just how well THAT works.
Hey, stop picking on Endora, er, Christine. She's cute.
-Owen
Matthew B. Tepper
to be typed in news:071120101818227601%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
As long as she never gets elected to any office and thus will never enact
legislation demoting science to just "theory," she's cute.
O
Tepper <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> O <ow...@denofinequityx.com> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:071120101818227601%ow...@denofinequityx.com:
>
> > In article <Xns9E2971366EA...@216.168.3.70>, Matthew B.
> > Tepper <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > It's pretty simple. He picked those pieces (or his publicist did)
> >> > because they are the most popular pieces with the largest possible
> >> > audience. The message is: I'm just like you. That's all there is to
> >> > it.
> >>
> >> In other words, he's saying, "I am not a witch, er, an elitist; I am
> >> you." And we know just how well THAT works.
> >
> > Hey, stop picking on Endora, er, Christine. She's cute.
>
> As long as she never gets elected to any office and thus will never enact
> legislation demoting science to just "theory," she's cute.
I think she's more likely to put you under her spell than to get
elected to anything higher than dogcatcher.
-Owen, who recommends Elvira's takeoff on her.
herman
most likely to appeal to the largest possible audience. No pianist who
is even superficially familiar with Chopin would pick the Minute Waltz
as the piece he or she would want to hear all the time.
This guy is a marketing phenom from head to toe, and of course he's
very successful with that. What frightens me is that even people who
should know better appear to be under the spell.
Ray Hall
Maybe the implicit message ia: more people will cough up more monwy.
His list is horrendous to these ears. Adnre Rieu type of stuff.
Ray Hall, Taree
CharmNick
Nick
On Nov 6, 9:08 pm, Christopher Webber <c...@zarzuela.net.invalid>
wrote:
> herman <her...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >The musician-performers who don't do "platform" antics and let the
> >music do the communicating are not getting any attention because the
> >future, as perceived by the media and the record companies, is with the
> >sexy performers.
>
> Don't you agree that the past and present (as well as the future) has
> been with these sexy performers? Or can you cite a golden time and place
> where "serious" merit without showmanship was more feted than the
> frivolous, the fashionable and the ephemeral?
>
> How many non-sexy performers have failed to achieve mass popularity
> because of Lang Lang's platform antics?
>
> This is the way the world wags; and I'm not altogether sure that it's
> necessarily a bad thing for music and musicians to have to modify their
> sacred calling in order to court come sort of popularity and earn a
> crust.
>
> For example, what do you think of the case of Shostakovich, instructed
> to popularise his work or (literally) perish? Was he a worse composer
> after that forced stylistic change?
Mark Stratford
>>Elisabeth Schwarzkopf was notorious for taking to her Desert Island
>eight recordings all of herself.
Exactly as were Jorg Bolet and Moura Lympany on this programme.
mark
William Sommerwerck
news:56e32b8c-77c5-4e45...@35g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> And in China, living in a poor village where one's
> father is trying to make sure that you don't have
> to queue for the toilet (I liked that story), one might
> not have much opportunity to listen to others.
You have a point. It appears that in many Oriental cultures, young musicians
are trained more in the mechanics of playing than in interpretation. Eastern
societies place less emphasis on individuality and individual expression.
Matthew B. Tepper
typed in news:24edff0a-b17f-497d-bc42-4c93e67c2d37
@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
You mean such as Gary Graffman?
Christopher Webber
>No pianist who is even superficially familiar with Chopin would pick
>the Minute Waltz as the piece he or she would want to hear all the
>time.
Well... it *is* a masterpiece, albeit a miniature one. They've been
using it as the theme tune for the BBC Radio 4 panel show "Just a
Minute" for about 50 years, and the heart still leaps to hear it!
As for the 1st Piano Concerto (which he also chose) it's one of those
pieces - like the slow movement of the Ravel Concerto - which puts time
on hold in a remarkable way.
Great music can come in many shapes and packages.
--
___________________________
JohnGavin
wrote:
> "laraine" <larai...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:56e32b8c-77c5-4e45...@35g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > And in China, living in a poor village where one's
> > father is try
Eastern
> societies place less emphasis on individuality and individual expression.
That's one way of putting it. One could also say they recognize the
danger of excessive egotism.
They see the folly of the Western "you too can realize your dream"
philosophy, knowing well that the "dream" usually involves wealth,
fame or some other materially-oriented self-centered excess..
Andrej Kluge
Christopher Webber wrote:
> Well... it *is* a masterpiece, albeit a miniature one. They've been
> using it as the theme tune for the BBC Radio 4 panel show "Just a
> Minute" for about 50 years, and the heart still leaps to hear it!
By the way, is there a recording which is indeed 1 minute (or less) long?
(the only one I have--Kocsis--takes 1:36)
Ciao
AK
herman
Always good to see them racial-social stereotypes kicking in.
However in what way do these cliches apply to LL who is very much into
'individual expression' both in terms of funny faces and in terms of
ignoring the stylistic traditions re: the music he's supposedly
performing, and who has on the other hand become very famous and very
wealthy in a very very short period of time, thus "realizing his
dream"?
Dontait...@aol.com
I have never known of one, and I worked as a classical music radio
announcer for forty years -- where one gets to know the timings of
works very well, including individual performances. 1:36 sounds like
about what I recall from every recording of the waltz I can remember.
It has been my understanding that the nickname "minute" regarding
that waltz began with the French word "minute" -- "small," "little,"
"tiny," or similar. Because the waltz is so short. Not the English
word concerning the span of a minute on the clock. Others will
probably know for sure. TD?
Don Tait
Kip Williams
>> By the way, is there a recording which is indeed 1 minute (or less) long?
>> (the only one I have--Kocsis--takes 1:36)
>>
> It has been my understanding that the nickname "minute" regarding
> that waltz began with the French word "minute" -- "small," "little,"
> "tiny," or similar. Because the waltz is so short. Not the English
> word concerning the span of a minute on the clock. Others will
> probably know for sure. TD?
Jeffrey Reid Baker recorded one, on synthesizer, seemingly as a lark. I
don't know, but suspect it's multi-tracked, and maybe he even speeded up
the tracks after he recorded them. At that velocity, it's more like each
measure is a beat in a 2/4 composition. So somebody's done it, for
certain loose values of "it" and "doing."
An amusing album by, um, Frederick Ullen consists mostly of arrangements
and transcriptions of the valse ranging from almost normal to nutzoid,
including Godowsky, Philipp, and the king of them all, Sorabji. It also
has the Show-Pan Boogie by Furst. Years ago I saw a book in the Denver
Public Library that was just different versions of the piece. I wouldn't
mind getting my hands on that again. Maybe I should see if it's
available on Interlibrary Loan.
Kip W
Christopher Webber
>However in what way do these cliches apply to LL who is very much into
>'individual expression' both in terms of funny faces and in terms of
>ignoring the stylistic traditions re: the music he's supposedly
>performing, and who has on the other hand become very famous and very
>wealthy in a very very short period of time, thus "realizing his dream"?
I suspect he's too young (and too unversed in the ways of the world) to
know what his real "dream" might be, yet.
I often think of what Samuel Butler said in 'Erewhon', to the effect
that no man worth his salt should decide what his path in life should
be, until he's thirty.
Which gives Lang Lang another year and a half of playing around!
--
___________________________
herman
> herman <her...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >However in what way do these cliches apply to LL who is very much into
> >'individual expression' both in terms of funny faces and in terms of
> >ignoring the stylistic traditions re: the music he's supposedly
> >performing, and who has on the other hand become very famous and very
> >wealthy in a very very short period of time, thus "realizing his dream"?
>
> I suspect he's too young (and too unversed in the ways of the world) to
> know what his real "dream" might be, yet.
>
artists. He's rich, he's enormously canny in handling live audiences,
and cameras.
Really, I think there's no reason to condescend as far as his worldy
ways are concerned.
CharmNick
else. The French cognate of 'minute' (of size) is 'menu' - which
doesn't usually have the 'titchy'/'teeny-weeny' sense of English
'minute' but means just 'small', 'fine; or 'slight'; the French phrase
would have to be Valse menue, which is totally unidiomatic. So I'm
afraid not. 'Valse-minute', on the other hand, would mean exaactly
what 'Minute Waltz' means.
Nick
On Nov 8, 8:18 pm, Kip Williams <k...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
Christopher Webber
>Really, I think there's no reason to condescend as far as his worldy
>ways are concerned.
Apologies if it came across that way. My intention was not to condescend
to Lang Lang, but to show him a modicum of kindness to counteract some
of his more virulent critics.
In all honesty, what else has the man had the leisure to experience of
the world for himself, apart from playing the piano? ... and of course
travelling on planes! As far I can judge it's been a constant treadmill.
And attending PR briefings doesn't count as "life" at all.
Not enviable, at all....
Kerrison
>
> - Show quoted text -
Peter Pears wasn't much better. His 8 Desert Island Discs (11 June
1983) were either of himself singing ('The Foggy Foggy Dew,' 'Sweet
Come Again,' etc.) or of his boyfriend (the 'Dawn' Sea Interlude from
'Peter Grimes', part of Britten's 3rd String Quartet, etc.) or the two
combined (Schubert's Im Dorfe,' Dibdin's 'Tom Bowling,' etc.) sung by
Pete with Benjy at the piano. Personally I prefer Dudley Moore's send-
up of the pair of them ...
MiNe 109
<a9180c1e-1e16-4e22...@u10g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
CharmNick <n.mo...@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote:
> 'Minute' in French means 60 seconds or 1/60 of an hour and nothing
> else. The French cognate of 'minute' (of size) is 'menu' - which
> doesn't usually have the 'titchy'/'teeny-weeny' sense of English
> 'minute' but means just 'small', 'fine; or 'slight'; the French phrase
> would have to be Valse menue, which is totally unidiomatic. So I'm
> afraid not. 'Valse-minute', on the other hand, would mean exaactly
> what 'Minute Waltz' means.
The 'Valse-minute' is also known as the 'Valse du petit chien.'
Stephen
William Sommerwerck
1983) were either of himself singing ('The Foggy Foggy Dew,' 'Sweet
Come Again,' etc.) or of his boyfriend (the 'Dawn' Sea Interlude from
'Peter Grimes', part of Britten's 3rd String Quartet, etc.) or the two
combined (Schubert's Im Dorfe,' Dibdin's 'Tom Bowling,' etc.) sung by
Pete with Benjy at the piano. Personally I prefer Dudley Moore's send-
up of the pair of them ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqgiOj54Ko
That's nasty. He's pretty much nailed the "distinctive" parts of Britten's
style.
Al Eisner
> "Bob Lombard" <thorste...@vermontel.net> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed in
> news:a5iBo.316756$Bh.6...@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com:
>
>> Methinks thou dost assume too much; about me and probably about Lang
>> Lang. Held in the sway of egoism, magical powers of discernment are
>> often imagined. Personally, I know little about Lang Lang, except that
>> he is young. The Rhapsody in Blue was quite attractive music to me when
>> I was young; Tchaikovsky's 1st piano concerto too. I am now an Old Fart,
>> but not a Bitter Old Fart.
>
> I enjoy "Rhapsody in Blue" very much for what it is, a brash and original
> work of genius by a young composer feeling his way. But it's a dessert.
> Now, there's nothing wrong with dessert, but it seems to me that the whole of
> Lang Lang's list is desserts, no entr?es at all.
Well, that explains it then. Lang Lang thought he was being asked to
provide a list for a "dessert island", rather than a "desert island". It's
simply a matter of his inadequate understanding of English!
--
Al Eisner
JohnGavin
It's called "Got A Minute" and it's on the BIS label.
I like the Sorabji Pastiches on the Minute Waltz. I don't know if I'd
all it nutzoid.
Kip Williams
> I like the Sorabji Pastiches on the Minute Waltz. I don't know if I'd
> all it nutzoid.
I like it just fine, and I would. It sounds almost drugged.
Kip W
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in
LOL!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
***** War is Peace **** Freedom is Slavery **** Fox is News *****
Christopher Webber
>Peter Pears wasn't much better. His 8 Desert Island Discs (11 June
>1983) were either of himself singing ('The Foggy Foggy Dew,' 'Sweet
>Come Again,' etc.) or of his boyfriend
It was, as I vividly recall, one of the best - and most moving - Desert
Island Discs ever, and it's been repeated quite often since. The
singer's description of his partner's last hours was touching; and he
had devised the programme as a tribute to him, rather than some act of
self-aggrandisement.
As is clear from much of this thread, what irritates some people to the
point of waspishness about some Desert Island Discs selections has equal
and opposite power to delight others.
Al Eisner
> To return to our onions (or yams), I must say that Lang Lang came across as
> genuine in his enthusiasm for the pieces he chose. He praised the pianists
> whose records he chose with generous acuity. Personally he was courteous and
> modest; and, not least when it came to narrating the traumatic events of his
> childhood, he seemed far from egotistical.
Who were those pianists? One thing that struck me as very odd about the
list posted at the head of this thread was that the only artists mentioned
were Pavarotti and Michael Jackson. No, I really don't have the inclination
to listen to the broadcast, but perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing that
extra information. I was also surprised that he picked just the middle
movement of a concerto he actually plays, but perhaps there is something
about a particular performance (again, not mentioned in the post). Thanks.
> His love for what he does, and how it communicates, spoke well for him on
> Desert Island Discs, however highly or not he may be rated as a musician by
> the Elders of the Pianistic Tribe.
--
Al Eisner
Al Eisner
> On Nov 6, 12:04 am, Robert Marshall
> <s...@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> I can't see any coverage of this here, so for the Lang Lang haters...
>>
>> He was on the bbc choosing the 8 pieces to take to a desert island
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
>>
>> Michael Jackson Thriller
>> Chopin Minute Waltz
>> Pavarotti O Sole Mio
>> Chopin 2nd movement of Piano Concerto 1
>> Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1
>> Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody 2
>> Yellow River in wrath (from the Y R concerto)
>> Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
>>
>> One might have hoped for something with some intellectual depth (well
>> maybe the Tchaikovsky), good performances but....!
>>
>> And the one piece out of the 8 - Liszt 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody - I'd be
>> jumping off a cliff within the week if that was all I had
>>
>> It's still on listen again :-)
>>
>> Robert
>> --
>> La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
>> Links and thingshttp://rmstar.blogspot.com/
>
> Looking at LL's DID list one more time, in a way it's stranger than I
> initially thought. Not only why pick Jackson, but if he is to be on
> the list, why *that* song when others (to my taste) are so much
> better.
>
> Why *that* Chopin waltz (when there are much better), why *that*
> Pavarotti performance, etc.
>
> In the end, preference is personal, as so many others have pointed
> out. These choices have no overlap whatever with what I would have
> picked at his age, or any age. Even though they look like they were
> picked by his marketing department, I'm assuming these are really his
> choices, not his marketing department's choices, and that tells me he
> has a very long journey yet to make. But he is a young man, and he has
> the time to make it.
Although I referred to this jokingly in another post, I really do
suspect that his conception of what he was being asked to provide (i.e.,
what is meant by a desert island list) was different from what most
people in this thread are assuming. (One such alternative is Herman's
cynical suggestion, but that's not the only possibility.)
--
Al Eisner
Christopher Webber
You can still "listen again" here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vknrn
Al, from the BBC Website here's the full listing:
Music played
1.
Michael Jackson Michael Jackson — Thriller
Composer: R Temperton
Thriller, Epic
2.
Frédéric Chopin Frédéric Chopin — The Minute Waltz – Waltz
in D flat Major
Artist: Artur Rubinstein
Chopin: Piano Works, RCA
3.
Luciano Pavarotti Luciano Pavarotti — O sole mio
Composer: Di Capua; Capurro
Pavarotti in Hyde Park, Decca
4.
Frédéric Chopin Frédéric Chopin — The second movement of
Chopin’s Piano Concerto No.1.
Artist: Murray Perahia – with the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra
conducted by Zubin Mehta
Perahia plays Chopin, Sony
5.
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky — Piano
Concerto No.1 in B flat major
Artist: Van Cliburn –with the RCA Symphony Orchestra conducted
by Kiril Kondrashin
Piano Concerto No.1., RCA
6.
Franz Liszt Franz Liszt — Hungarian Rhapsody No.2
Artist: Vladimir Horowitz
Horowitz: Brahms: Concerto No.2 …, RCA
7.
Lang Lang — The Yellow River in Wrath from the Yellow River
Piano Concerto
(Performing: with the China Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by
Long Yu)
Lang Lang: Dragon Songs, Deutsche Grammophon
8.
Leonard Bernstein Leonard Bernstein — Rhapsody in Blue
Composer: George Gershwin
Gershwin:Rhapsody: Bernstein, CBS
Ray Hall
> As is clear from much of this thread, what irritates some people to the
> point of waspishness about some Desert Island Discs selections has equal
> and opposite power to delight others.
Nobody as far as I know has mentioned Peter Pears, but I need to reply
regarding your mention of, to quote, "irritates some people to the point
of waspishness", which seems to be some sort of veiled attack.
If we were to suppose, that the items mentioned in LL's list,
represented even an average, let alone larger, portrayal of the music
discussed in this forum, then I would suspect many people here would
leave in droves, let alone drift away as some have done.
Nobody has said LL hasn't the right, or even the need to defend his
choice of music, but his list (of Desert Island Discs) is more suited to
being mentioned in a blog involving those that look for different
musical experiences than here in rmcr. Far more likely, in fact, to
appeal to the many who feel the need to attend Andre Rieu concerts.
Nothing wrong with this, but the items chosen, if genuine, hardly point
to a serious and searching interest in classical music, let alone the
kind of stuff we would need for solace on a desert isle.
Even his choice of popular music points to a liking for the *immensely*
popular, rather than a need for music that 'searches' and 'empowers' as
great music should. And there are plenty of examples in the
art-gothic-rock world. It just needs to be looked for, but it won't hit
one in the eye commercially, screaming for attention.
Ray Hall, Taree
William Sommerwerck
they didn't fully understand.
For example, I'd make half the disks I selected music that is supposedly
great, but I hadn't fully come to grips with (such as "Pierrot Lunaire"). If
you've got all that time, why not use it to broaden your horizons?
laraine
wrote:
And the other thing is why bring just one
piece, or just one movement?
Why not a whole collection of Beethoven
sonatas or a large Bach set...
Maybe LL is on the island for only a day.
C.
Kip Williams
I might take the Opus Clavicembalisticum along, and hope that rescue
might come before I've been there long enough to have finally gotten a
real handle on it.
Kip W
number_six
how many RMCR contributors would have any waltz at all in a desert
island list.
If a waltz makes your list, which one is it?
If not, which one comes the closest?
Chopin's c# minor? Debussy's La Plus que Lente? Shostakovich, from his
Jazz Suites? Strauss' Kunstlerleben?
Or none at all? How close does the waltz get to *your* desert island?
herman
Again, this listed is targeted to please the largest possible group of
people, for who, indeed, the Chopin piano concerto is about the slow
mvt.
herman
>
> If we were to suppose, that the items mentioned in LL's list,
> represented even an average, let alone larger, portrayal of the music
> discussed in this forum, then I would suspect many people here would
> leave in droves, let alone drift away as some have done.
>
Don't forget there's a whole bunch of people here for who the Vienna
New Year's Concert is a Really Big Thing.
Matthew B. Tepper
be typed in news:4311d801-7c63-4385-82ab-
99000d...@w17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> And the other thing is why bring just one piece, or just one movement?
>
> Why not a whole collection of Beethoven sonatas or a large Bach set...
>
> Maybe LL is on the island for only a day.
Considering how much money his handlers would stand to lose for every day
he's gone missing, they would spare no effort to get him back as soon as
possible.
O
<4311d801-7c63-4385...@w17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
laraine <lara...@gmail.com> wrote:
The last time I was on the island, the hatch blew up.
-Owen