Most interesting overlooked piano masterpieces of the 20th Century
Andrew Maltz
confess I for the most part confine my listening to standard repertoire
Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Mozart, Chopin, Bach (not nec. in that
order)... and as to modern composers, Prokofiev, a little Rachmaninov,
very little of Webern, Schoenberg, but have not yet explored Boulez,
Carter, Hindemith, Reger, Wolpe, and others of whom I am embarrassed to
confess near total ignorance.
What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
Andrew Maltz
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nicolas Hodges
Whether the grandeur of those two peaks has a right to be created in our
century is a question in itself.
Of the composers you mention I would highlight Schoenberg (try Pollini
on DG and Gould on Sony for opposites), Carter (Night Fantasies - Oppens
on M+A) and Wolpe (Battle Piece - Hamelin on New World is the only
contender at present).
I would also point you towards Bill Hopkins (a pupil of Messiaen's)
massive cycle of Etudes en Série which will be released by col legno in
January. It's one of the pinnacles of piano music this century.
Also, you may find Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux and Vingt Regards
interesting if you don't already know them.
--
Nic
Alfredo Rivas
>
> Also, you may find Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux and Vingt Regards
> interesting if you don't already know them.
> --
> Nic
>
This can be explored at reasonable prices in the two Naxos sets. The
performances by Astbo are as good (or better), as any other.
regards,
--
Alfredo E. Rivas
Guernica Films
ARI...@prodigy.net
Alfredo Rivas
Andrew Maltz <ama...@yahoo.com> wrote in article
<7vojr2$8gr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> Does anybody have any thoughts on this unbearably broad query? I
> confess I for the most part confine my listening to standard repertoire
> Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Mozart, Chopin, Bach (not nec. in that
> order)... and as to modern composers, Prokofiev, a little Rachmaninov,
> very little of Webern, Schoenberg, but have not yet explored Boulez,
> Carter, Hindemith, Reger, Wolpe, and others of whom I am embarrassed to
> confess near total ignorance.
>
> What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
> mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
> say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
>
>
> Andrew Maltz
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
There is a CD of Stravinky's piano work performed by Victor Sangiorgio
(can't remember the label). A great single CD which compiles the most
important piano work of Stravinky.
There is also a CD of Carter's work performed by Charles Rosen, which is
worth getting.
evan johnson
wrote:
>What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
>mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
>say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
Some suggestions.
Messiaen: Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant Jesus (Austbo/Naxos)
Hindemith: Piano Sonatas (esp. #1) (Gould/Sony)
Rzewski: The People United Will Never Be Defeated! (Oppens/?)
Carter: Night Fantasies, Piano Sonata
Berio: Sequenza IV for piano solo (hell, get the whole set on DG)
Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
I am peforming next month!)
Evan
Nicolas Hodges
>> Also, you may find Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux and Vingt Regards
>> interesting if you don't already know them.
>This can be explored at reasonable prices in the two Naxos sets. The
>performances by Astbo are as good (or better), as any other.
I've not heard them - are they really as good as Loriod's?
--
Nic
Nicolas Hodges
>Andrew Maltz <ama...@yahoo.com> wrote in article
><7vojr2$8gr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> Does anybody have any thoughts on this unbearably broad query? I
>> confess I for the most part confine my listening to standard repertoire
>> Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Mozart, Chopin, Bach (not nec. in that
>> order)... and as to modern composers, Prokofiev, a little Rachmaninov,
>> very little of Webern, Schoenberg, but have not yet explored Boulez,
>> Carter, Hindemith, Reger, Wolpe, and others of whom I am embarrassed to
>> confess near total ignorance.
>>
>> mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
>> say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
>>
>(can't remember the label). A great single CD which compiles the most
>important piano work of Stravinky.
>There is also a CD of Carter's work performed by Charles Rosen, which is
>worth getting.
Here here
--
Nic
lord_e...@my-deja.com
evan.j...@eliyale.edu (evan johnson) wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:13:55 GMT, Andrew Maltz <ama...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
less
> >mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur
of,
> >say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
>
[... recommendations cut...]
> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
> I am peforming next month!)
Could I ask someone to describe the music a little, before we plunge
in, and maybe recommend a performer? Not that I have anything against
your interpretation, of course. :)
Pardon the ignorance, but I've never heard any Ustvolskaya at all.
Thanks,
Lena
Alfredo Rivas
>> What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
> >> mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur
of,
> >> say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
> >>
> >There is a CD of Stravinky's piano work performed by Victor Sangiorgio
> >(can't remember the label). A great single CD which compiles the most
> >important piano work of Stravinky.
> Stravinsky's piano works are hardly on the level of Bach or Beethoven...
>
I didn't mean to imply this. If the original poster is trying to explore
contemporary works for piano, I think this CD would be an excellent buy. I
personally prefer not to compare grandiosity when it comes to music,
specially when it comes to 20th century composers, but I'll agree that
Stravinsky's piano music is nowhere near the Hammerklavier, or other, more
ambitious compositions of this century (e.g. Vingt Regards).
Now, Stravinsky's Tango... well, I would put that in my list of guilty
pleasures.
Luca Sabbatini
> Rzewski: The People United Will Never Be Defeated! (Oppens/?)
Go for Rzewski himself on hat ART.
> Carter: Night Fantasies, Piano Sonata
Try Rosen on Bridge (both works plus 90+) or Paul Jacobs on Nonesuch for the
Piano Sonata.
> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
> I am peforming next month!)
Very good recordings on Mediadisc by some Russian pianist whose name I
forgot. (Good luck with your upcoming performance by the way.)
I would add:
Busoni: Fantasia contrappuntistica (?), Toccata (Brendel on Philips)
Ives: Concord Sonata (Hamelin on New World)
Feldman: Palais de Mari and Triadic Memories (Markus Hinterhauser on Col
Legno)
Barraqué: Sonata (Pi-Hsien Chien on Telos)
LS
vladimir
. . . . . . . .
>Of the composers you mention I would highlight Schoenberg (try Pollini
>on DG and Gould on Sony for opposites), Carter (Night Fantasies - Oppens
>on M+A) and Wolpe (Battle Piece - Hamelin on New World is the only
>contender at present).
Sigh. I have all those, have listened to them repeatedly, ditto for
well-known recordings of Boulez and Messaien (and numerous others great and
small), but as far as I can discern they are all essentially worthless. The
only reason I keep trying with such stuff is that I'm "supposed" to, for
various reasons, and I'm hoping I'll suddenly "get it" someday.
- Phil Caron
Chloe Pajerek
> On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:13:55 GMT, Andrew Maltz <ama...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
> >mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
> >say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
>
> Some suggestions.
>
> Messiaen: Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant Jesus (Austbo/Naxos)
> Hindemith: Piano Sonatas (esp. #1) (Gould/Sony)
> Rzewski: The People United Will Never Be Defeated! (Oppens/?)
> Carter: Night Fantasies, Piano Sonata
> Berio: Sequenza IV for piano solo (hell, get the whole set on DG)
> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
> I am peforming next month!)
>
> Evan
Did I miss it, or has no one yet mentioned the Shostakovich
24 Preludes and Fugues?
Prokofiev also wrote a few pretty good piano sonatas... :)
- Chloe
Tony Movshon
Nicolas Hodges <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> writes:
> Alfredo Rivas <ARI...@prodigy.net> writes
> >> Also, you may find Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux and Vingt Regards
> >> interesting if you don't already know them.
> [actually it was me wrote that]
>
> >This can be explored at reasonable prices in the two Naxos sets. The
> >performances by Astbo are as good (or better), as any other.
>
> I've not heard them - are they really as good as Loriod's?
They are both excellent. I haven't heard Loriod's "oiseaux", but I
easily prefer Austbo in the "regards" for his sense of forward movement
(easy to lose somewhere around regard #12 or 13), superior technique and
wider range of tone color (as well as the vastly better recording he is
given).
--
Tony Movshon mov...@nyu.edu
Center for Neural Science New York University
John Gavin
Sonata op. 26 #2 "Night Wind" - Nicholas Medtner
Diane Wilson
>
> Did I miss it, or has no one yet mentioned the Shostakovich
> 24 Preludes and Fugues?
After Ashkenazy's splash, perhaps they don't seem so overlooked
any more. They're definitely high on my play-list.
For a truly overlooked Shostakovich piano masterpiece, I'd
suggest the sonata no. 2. The 24 Preludes (op. 34) are an
interesting set of miniatures from a composer we don't normally
think of in such terms. Viardo gives a good performance of
both works.
> Prokofiev also wrote a few pretty good piano sonatas... :)
Yes he did. I had a lot of fun playing the 3rd, many years ago.
--
Diane Wilson (di...@firelily.com, anon-...@anon.twwells.com)
Web design: http://www.firelily.com/
Personal: http://www.firelily.com/goddess/
It is neither possible nor necessary to educate people who never
question anything. (Joseph Heller)
Nicolas Hodges
Well, you are under no obligation to 'get it', but I hope you don't
think your judgement that they are 'all essentially worthless' is
absolute - not just because that would exclude my view that they are
extremely valuable, but also because it will discourage you from trying
again in future.
A personal question: how long have you been trying, and how old were
when you started trying? I ask for comparison with my own experience - I
first played Schoenberg at 14, Boulez at 16 (both programmed with
standard repertoire). Perhaps it helps to get the first fix early on...
--
Nic
Carl Tait
Andrew Maltz <ama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on this unbearably broad query?
Fairly conventional:
Barber: Sonata
Bloch: Most of the solo piano music (dark and atmospheric)
Dutilleux: Sonata
Ginastera: Argentinian Dances, Sonata No. 1
Griffes: Sonata (melodic but built on an unusual scale)
Rzewski: The People United (Drury or Hamelin, *not* Rzewski's own clattering)
More "modern":
Bacewicz: Sonata No. 2 (Zimerman on an Olympia CD)
Bartok: Out of Doors
Ligeti: Etudes
--
Carl Tait IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
cdt...@us.ibm.com Hawthorne, NY 10532
evan johnson
>In article <38207c60....@news.yale.edu>,
> evan.j...@eliyale.edu (evan johnson) wrote:
>> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
>> I am peforming next month!)
>
>Could I ask someone to describe the music a little, before we plunge
>in, and maybe recommend a performer? Not that I have anything against
>your interpretation, of course. :)
>Pardon the ignorance, but I've never heard any Ustvolskaya at all.
Ustvolskaya's music is utterly unique. It is characterized by a
pigheaded rhythmic repetitiveness which works brilliantly with the
pitch materials. (She was once famously called "the woman with the
hammer.") She has written, besides the piano sonatas, several pieces
for four or five instruments which she calls "symphonies" for such
combos as piano, tuba, and piccolo.
The sixth sonata is largely played with the fists, palms, and
occasionally forearms. Admittedly it takes repeated listening to
understand, but assuming you put aside preconceptions beforehand
you're in for a very powerful experience.
Evan
David M. Cook
>Sigh. I have all those, have listened to them repeatedly, ditto for
>well-known recordings of Boulez and Messaien (and numerous others great and
>small), but as far as I can discern they are all essentially worthless. The
>only reason I keep trying with such stuff is that I'm "supposed" to, for
>various reasons, and I'm hoping I'll suddenly "get it" someday.
I didn't like Schoenberg's piano music until I heard the Jacobs recording
(Nonesuch). I find the Pollini dull.
To "get" Messiean it helps *not* to approach it expecting Great Works.
Dave Cook
JHenry1975
>> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
>> I am peforming next month!)
>
>Very good recordings on Mediadisc by some Russian pianist whose name I
>forgot.
Oleg Malov on Megadisc. Available cheap at Berkshire!
Joseph Henry
ATETHIS
>> 24 Preludes and Fugues?
>
>After Ashkenazy's splash, perhaps they don't seem so overlooked
>any more. They're definitely high on my play-list.
True the 24 preludes and fugues seem to be the only piano work of Shostakovich
that this NG seems to recognize.
>
>For a truly overlooked Shostakovich piano masterpiece, I'd
>suggest the sonata no. 2. The 24 Preludes (op. 34) are an
>interesting set of miniatures from a composer we don't normally
>think of in such terms. Viardo gives a good performance of
>both works.
>
The 24 Preludes are favorite.
What is more overlooked than these pieces however is the opus 6 Suite for 2
Pianos. More of a symphony for 2 pianos if you ask me.
Fred
Most People Aren't Famous
JHenry1975
>Ligeti: Etudes
Oh, God, how could that have been missed before now! Yes, yes, all three
Books!
Joseph Henry
Alfredo Rivas
Nicolas Hodges <n...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<0FYyBoAu...@nicolashodges.demon.co.uk>...
> Alfredo Rivas <ARI...@prodigy.net> writes
> >> Also, you may find Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux and Vingt Regards
> >> interesting if you don't already know them.
> [actually it was me wrote that]
>
> >This can be explored at reasonable prices in the two Naxos sets. The
> >performances by Astbo are as good (or better), as any other.
>
> I've not heard them - are they really as good as Loriod's?
> --
> Nic
>
Nic,
I posted a reply to your question earlier, but it doesn't show up in my
server so I don't know if it is been posted or not. Basically I agree with
Tony on this, the performances are excellent, speacially the Regards, and
if my memory serves me well they are better recorded than Loriod's. And you
can't beat the price!
Gustavo Comezaña
truly great works of the century, IMHO. Hindemith's "Ludus Tonalis" also
deserves mention (I happen to like it better than the Sonatas). Would it
be a stretch to add Bartok's Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion?
And let us not forget that Ravel is 20th century!
Gustavo
JRsnfld
Certainly, the Ives Concord Sonata--like a Mahler symphony, a world unto
itself, and full of great ideas. The 1st sonata is also very substantial, but
with less impact, I think.
Richard Wernick's Sonata (available on Bridge) is similarly ambitious, but I
haven't listened to it enough times to rank it a masterpiece--maybe someone
else has an opinion on it....
For shear greatness, try the Sessions Sonatas, Boulez Sonatas, the Copland
Fantasy. All very substantial, very rewarding.
--Jeff
lord_e...@my-deja.com
evan.j...@eliyale.edu (evan johnson) wrote:
> Ustvolskaya's music is utterly unique. It is characterized by a
> pigheaded rhythmic repetitiveness which works brilliantly with the
> pitch materials. (She was once famously called "the woman with the
> hammer.") [...]
> Admittedly it takes repeated listening to
> understand, but assuming you put aside preconceptions beforehand
That's fine, my mind has been shocked into complete blankness by the
Vroon thread.
> you're in for a very powerful experience.
Thanks for the great description! I'll definitely try it. (I kind of
like hammer, power tool, etc. type compositions... :) )
evan johnson
>Thanks for the great description! I'll definitely try it. (I kind of
>like hammer, power tool, etc. type compositions... :) )
Ah, fantastic. I seem to be quite the Ustvolskaya advocate on this
newsgroup...
I believe the excellent Frank Denyer recording on Conifer of the
complete sonatas, which I rashly bought on impulse at full price and
which is now among my favorite records, is currently available at
Berkshire. (only 1 CD)
Evan
Dan Koren
>confess I for the most part confine my listening to standard repertoire
>Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Mozart, Chopin, Bach (not nec. in that
>order)... and as to modern composers, Prokofiev, a little Rachmaninov,
>very little of Webern, Schoenberg, but have not yet explored Boulez,
>Carter, Hindemith, Reger, Wolpe, and others of whom I am embarrassed to
>confess near total ignorance.
>
>mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
>say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
None.
dk
Dan Koren
evan johnson <evan.j...@eliyale.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Nov 1999 22:59:58 GMT, lord_e...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> evan.j...@eliyale.edu (evan johnson) wrote:
>
>>> Ustvolskaya: Sonatas #1-6 (esp. #6, a real barnburner which
>>> I am peforming next month!)
>>
>>in, and maybe recommend a performer? Not that I have anything against
>>your interpretation, of course. :)
>>Pardon the ignorance, but I've never heard any Ustvolskaya at all.
>
>pigheaded rhythmic repetitiveness which works brilliantly with the
Pigheaded sounds like an apt description to me.
And why would anyone think this is music?!?
dk
Andrew Maltz
I guess the final part of my question was somewhat rhetorical; thanks so
much to all who responded, I've already begun investigating many of the
works, esp. Ligetti, Carter, and Ives.
Andrew
Wayne Reimer
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on this unbearably broad query? I
> confess I for the most part confine my listening to standard repertoire
> Beethoven, Brahms, Schumann, Mozart, Chopin, Bach (not nec. in that
> order)... and as to modern composers, Prokofiev, a little Rachmaninov,
> very little of Webern, Schoenberg, but have not yet explored Boulez,
> Carter, Hindemith, Reger, Wolpe, and others of whom I am embarrassed to
> confess near total ignorance.
>
> What are in fact the compositions I'd do best to explore in this less
> mainstream category? What pieces from our century have the grandeur of,
> say, the Hammerklavier? or of the WTC?
>
>
The is a fairly substantial body of work by Karol Szymanowski that's
really quite amazing stuff. Get the Martin Roscoe CDs (Naxos), although
he hasn't yet released the best of the lot, the great 3rd sonata.
There's an okay recording of it by Martin Jones, in a complete works set
that's on Nimbus; unfortunately it doesn't reach the ecstatic heights
the music demands. Or you could try out the very fine recording by
Fialkowska on Opening Day Recordings that includes his two sets of
fantastical exotica, the Metopes and the Masques. Another very good
recording of those two sets is the one by Dennis Lee on Hyperion.
wr
Marc Perman
I have a much greater interest in Szymanowski after hearing the
Dutoit/Montreal King Roger/Stabat Mater at Carnegie a few weeks ago,
and am greatly enjoying a new Lys set of mostly orchestral music,
conducted by Rowicki. While his influences are sometimes detectible
(e.g. Debussy), Szymanowski's style (or styles) is/are original. I'm
writing this partly in response to the poster who objects to concert
reviews on rcmr.
Marc Perman
schi...@lightlink.com
but some influences can be more overpowering than others (in re: Szymanowski
and Debussy). I think fairly well of Szymanowski. (Come to think of it,
I recommend the Martin Jones set on Nimbus- at least the first 2-CD set,
which I have and have heard; haven't heard the 2nd set yet. The first
set covers op. 1 through the second sonata- influences here, if this is
important to anyone, are more Chopin and Reger, I suppose, but
the quality of the music is very high, and a piece like the second sonata-
rightly admired by Sorabji if memory serves for its striking final fugue-
deserves to be known by more than a list of influences :). Opening sonata-form
movement with lovely themes that will turn up again in the theme,
variations and fugue finale. (Interesting how a fugue wends its way
into the finale, or final section, of all 3 Szymanowski sonatas... *g*-
final section in the case of the one-movement third. Haven't heard the third
in a while- might not have been the final section, just a prominent section
near the end; can someone correct me please?)
-Eric Schissel
Wayne Reimer
The third ends in a fugue. By the time Szymanowski wrote it, his style
had become more purely his own and his preoccupation with fugal writing
reached a sort of incandescent apotheosis in it. I don't think he wrote
any more big fugues after it.
wr