Mozart string quintets
Alan Little
interested in these works when I heard a couple of them performed live
on BBC Radio 3 by the Endellion Quartet a few years ago. It took me a
few years after that to actually find and buy a recorded set at a
reasonable price; last year I finally picked up the Talich Quartet /
Rehak set on Calliope.
It never rains but it pours, buses always come in threes etc. This
year I have acquired:
Smetana Quartet / Suk K174, K593 - a Japanese Denon CD for 4 euros on
ebay
Tatrai Quartet / Mauthner K174, K515 - Hungaroton, 3 euros in a second
hand shop
Orlando Quartet / Imai K515, K593 - Brilliant Classics 2 euros (!) new
Griller Quartet / Gilbert K516 - Dutton, 5 euros new (with Dissonance
4tet and Horn 5tet)
... and I like all of them. This is why I take the view that buying
new full price CDs is usually an unnecessary waste of money.
Here are my impressions in a little more detail
The absurdly cheap Orlando Quartet on Brilliant are, er, brilliant. I
don't like the sound - a bit muffled and distant. But they are lovely
performances in a mellow, quite romantic/un-HIP way. I've seen them
compared to the Alban Berg Quartet in a previous thread, but I'm not
familiar with the ABQ's Mozart and find their Beethoven on EMI stodgy
and dull, so I couldn't really comment on that.
I'm not wild about this Smetana Quartet performance. I find it a
little heavy-footed for Mozart. Is that heresy? I have some Smetana Qt
recordings I love - a Rasumovsky 3 that is one of the most
inspired/inspiring performances I have ever heard of anything, and the
wonderful Dvorak piano quintet on Testament. But also quite a lot that
are very well played but don't especially move me.
Tatrai. The sound is a little flat (1980s digital transfer). The
performance is nice in a very straight-ahead kind of way.
Griller. The sound (1940s mono)is muted and far from ideal. The
performance is stunning.
I have nothing against the Talich, they're good, but I don't quite
find them magical or inspiring.
It's clearly worth picking up the rest of the Orlando set on
Brilliant. I believe there also are/were complete Griller Quintets
sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
on the sound?
notrump15-17
"Alan Little" <con...@alanlittle.org> wrote in message
news:4ef0f3a4.04032...@posting.google.com...
Alan Cooper
wrote:
> I believe there also are/were complete Griller Quintets
>sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
>on the sound?
The sound is fine and the performances are superb. Do not hestitate.
You also ought to hear the '40s Budapest + Katims set, which should
still be available in a 4-CD Sony set that comprises both the Quintets
and the superb early '50s Budapest "Haydn" Quartets. I disagree about
the Smetana + Suk performances, incidentally. They are weightier than
most others, but wonderful in their own terms, imo.
AC
Simon Roberts
says...
[snip]
I believe there also are/were complete Griller Quintets
>sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
>on the sound?
Unless Artemis have botched it (my experience with other Artemis Vanguard
reissues makes me doubt it), the recorded sound is superb, though I suppose some
might find the microphones a bit close; I don't think anyone made better
sounding recordings at the time than Vanguard. As for the performances
themselves, I so prefer them to any other stereo set that this is the only one
I've kept (a rarity for me in music I like this much), along with a few
individual discs. So I'm afraid I'm inclined to recommend that you add this to
your collection....
Simon
Matthew B. Tepper
includes a great performance of the Divertimento for String Trio, K. 563.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
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Johannes Roehl
> In article <4ef0f3a4.04032...@posting.google.com>, Alan Little
> says...
>
> [snip]
>
> I believe there also are/were complete Griller Quintets
>
>>sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
>>on the sound?
>
> Unless Artemis have botched it (my experience with other Artemis Vanguard
> reissues makes me doubt it), the recorded sound is superb, though I suppose some
Does anyone have a recommendation *where* I can get these
Artemis/vanguard reissues, preferably in Europe/UK? A few (but not the
Mozart quintets or Haydn quartets) are available in France, amazon.com
or -.uk didn't have any (or at least not the ones I wanted)
Or does anyone one know about a European release date?
Above all I want the Griller qt. items and the Mahler Wunderhorn
recordings from Vienna.
Johannes
Steve Molino
> 4tet and Horn 5tet)
>
The later Griller set, originally on Vanguard now on Artemus, is my
hands-down favorite set. Cheap and in good sound, too!
Paul Goldstein
>sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
>on the sound?
Sound is superb and these performances have been benchmarks for over 40 years.
Do not hesitate.
Paul Goldstein
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Simon Roberts schrieb:
>> In article <4ef0f3a4.04032...@posting.google.com>, Alan Little
>> says...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> I believe there also are/were complete Griller Quintets
>>
>>>sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
>>>on the sound?
>>
>> Unless Artemis have botched it (my experience with other Artemis Vanguard
>>reissues makes me doubt it), the recorded sound is superb, though I suppose some
>
>Does anyone have a recommendation *where* I can get these
>Artemis/vanguard reissues, preferably in Europe/UK? A few (but not the
>Mozart quintets or Haydn quartets) are available in France, amazon.com
>or -.uk didn't have any (or at least not the ones I wanted)
You must have performed not quite the right search. See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O17C129D7
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S18C329D7
(or just go to amazon UK or France and type in "mozart griller")
Simon
Simon
Alan Little
release from the US at a very reasonable price. I think it was eight
pounds plus shipping. Same seller also turns up sometimes on
amazon.de, but not with this CD for some reason. I have the Borodin
Quartet Tchaikovsky on order from them at the moment (the 1960s one
with the Rostropovich in Souvenirs de Florence) - if that arrives ok
I'll probably order the Griller too.
Do a search on "Griller Mozart" on amazon.co.uk
(oh, and thanks for the Shostakovich tip on the German newsgroup.
Munich 2001 had the set in stock today - and the other 2 CDs from the
Brilliant quintets set)
Alan
Lena
> It's raining Mozart string quintets bei mir at the moment. [...]
> The absurdly cheap Orlando Quartet on Brilliant are, er, brilliant. I
> don't like the sound - a bit muffled and distant. But they are lovely
> performances in a mellow, quite romantic/un-HIP way. I've seen them
> compared to the Alban Berg Quartet in a previous thread, but I'm not
> familiar with the ABQ's Mozart and find their Beethoven on EMI stodgy
> and dull, so I couldn't really comment on that.
(Just curious - which parts of the ABQ Beethoven are stodgy? Or all parts
equally stodgy?)
> I'm not wild about this Smetana Quartet performance. I find it a
> little heavy-footed for Mozart. Is that heresy? [...]
No. They are pretty heavy-footed. But I like the sound they make.
(And Mozart played against type can be a good thing, sometimes.) In this
case, I like some of the heavyfootedness...
(Heavyfootedness = legato, refusal to use the diminuendos
within notes and towards phrase endings typical in Mozart playing, and
phrases which are not clearly "detached" and set against each other. The only
aspect of their full, heavier style that bothers me a bit here
might be this last; the overall line is too linear... Meaning, not articulated
enough (IMO).)
Lena
Alan Little
> equally stodgy?)
I bought op130/133 out of curiosity when I sw the cheap EMI releases.
Nothing about it made me want to keep it or buy the rest. I admit I'm
generalising from a severely limited sample.
> > I'm not wild about this Smetana Quartet performance. I find it a
> > little heavy-footed for Mozart. Is that heresy? [...]
>
> No. They are pretty heavy-footed. But I like the sound they make.
so do I
> (And Mozart played against type can be a good thing, sometimes.) In this
> case, I like some of the heavyfootedness...
>
> (Heavyfootedness = legato, refusal to use the diminuendos
> within notes and towards phrase endings typical in Mozart playing, and
> phrases which are not clearly "detached" and set against each other. The only
> aspect of their full, heavier style that bothers me a bit here
> might be this last; the overall line is too linear... Meaning, not articulated
> enough (IMO).)
>
> Lena
Thank you. I have no formal musical education, so if there are
technical terms that unambiguously express what I'm trying to express,
I'm afraid I don't know them.
Lena
>
> > equally stodgy?)
>
> I bought op130/133 out of curiosity when I sw the cheap EMI releases.
> Nothing about it made me want to keep it or buy the rest. I admit I'm
> generalising from a severely limited sample.
:) -- FWIW I don't like their Op. 130 that much either. (I think the ABQ
gets better in this repertoire the further back towards the past you go...)
> > (Heavyfootedness = legato, refusal to use the diminuendos
> > within notes and towards phrase endings typical in Mozart playing, and
> > phrases which are not clearly "detached" and set against each other. The only
> > aspect of their full, heavier style that bothers me a bit here
> > might be this last; the overall line is too linear... Meaning, not articulated
> > enough (IMO).)
> >
> > Lena
>
> Thank you. I have no formal musical education, so if there are
> technical terms that unambiguously express what I'm trying to express,
> I'm afraid I don't know them.
Sorry... "Some legato and no diminuendo" seems to mean: a fuller, more
intense feeling (which I like).
"Too much legato, and no differentiated phrases" = a convoluted way of
saying that I think they're sometimes a little boring. :)
(The Smetana can be both of the above, AFAIC.)
Lena
Van Eyes
news:4ef0f3a4.04032...@posting.google.com
> I have nothing against the Talich, they're good, but I don't quite
> find them magical or inspiring.
Talich K.593 and K.614 seem magical and inspiring to me.
Regards
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Blat
>Griller. The sound (1940s mono)is muted and far from ideal. The
>performance is stunning.
The perfs I heard by the Griller were out of tune (especially the 1st violin) -
I couldn't listen to them for more than 2 minutes.
Philip Peters
Poor soul...these recordings are *glorious*. I can hardly believe you're
serious, you probably aren't.
Philip
John Wiser
> Blat wrote:
> >>Griller. The sound (1940s mono)is muted and far from ideal. The
> >>performance is stunning.
> >
> > The perfs I heard by the Griller were out of tune (especially the 1st
violin) -
> > I couldn't listen to them for more than 2 minutes.
>
> Poor soul...these recordings are *glorious*. I can hardly believe you're
> serious, you probably aren't.
Sorry Philip, but this is insupportable myth. I am entertained
by how many people *here* are willing to entertain it.
Griller intonation was always iffy; what the ensemble did
--up to a point--
was make up for it in style. In a similar case, the last years
of the Beethoven Quartet of Moscow was all style, no tone,
scatty intonation. One can listen, learn and even enjoy, but
don't admire the emperor's raiment....at least not aloud.
--
John Wiser
cee...@frontiernet.not
Paul Ilechko
> Griller intonation was always iffy; what the ensemble did
> --up to a point--
> was make up for it in style. In a similar case, the last years
> of the Beethoven Quartet of Moscow was all style, no tone,
> scatty intonation. One can listen, learn and even enjoy, but
> don't admire the emperor's raiment....at least not aloud.
this sounds like the common complaint against the Lindsays.
Philip Peters
Well, I must be deaf then. I'll give them another spin (one of a very
large amount of spins) and see what happens. I always *loved* these
recordings and not because others liked them too. Just curious: what
recording of the Mozart quintets would you recommend over the Grillers'?
My ex aequo choice would be the Budapest (but then I have heard people
complaining about *their* intonation as well...)
Philip
John Wiser
Paul Ilechko wrote:
> Eye rote:
That may be so, I haven't been watching other people on this subject.
My scunner for the Lindsays started right from mid-70s scratch.
Ab ovo they played like pigs...alright, piglets. I probably slander the
untapped musical capacities of the entire porcine race. It was not
intonation coming adrift with age and desuetude; it was the ham-and-jam
approach to all musical texts, the attitude of "What can we do to tart up
this awfully plain stuff?" [Bartok, Beethoven, Haydn]. But come to think
about it, in one of their very earliest appearances on record, in
Tippett's
quartets, they are on excellent behavior. Hmm...could the presence of the
composer have been an inhibiting factor?
--
John Wiser
cee...@frontiernet.not
>
John Wiser
>
> Eye rote:
Just because they can't always play in tune
is no reason not to *love* 'em
for many important other things done right.
But not everyone can get every factor into
perspective all at once. I just find it helpful
to recognize where the shortcomings are,
...if they are shortcomings.
>
I own the Griller set _and_ Budapest/Trampler, both on LP.
On CD the only complete set I have is the Tatrai/Mauthner,
which is dry but at its best exalted. Then I suppose I should
tell you I have two Denon CDs with Smetana Qtt/Suk, which
I like a lot, especially for K. 516. On the other hand, the Artis
Quartet with an unremembered violist is supreme in K. 515 [Sony].
HIP accounts on hand include 515/516 couplings by Ensemble 415
and Hausmusik, and 516s from Aston Magna players and a bunch
of NY Philomusica pickups. I am on the verge of springing for the
damned Lener set, too. It's in my basket at BRO.
Specifically rejected a long long time ago was the Orlando Set with
wotsername, when it came out on BIS, and the Guarneri set for RCA
with three up-and-comers. The latter boys in those days minced Mozart
horribly. I don't begin to understand how they got there, after doing
such a bang-up job on K. 589/590 in their first appearance on LP.
--
John Wiser
cee...@frontiernet.not
Lena
> Philip Peters wrote:
> > Blat wrote:
> > > On 26 Mar 2004 a 05:42:28 -0800 Alan Little wrote:
> > >>Griller. The sound (1940s mono)is muted and far from ideal. The
> > >>performance is stunning.
> > >
> > > The perfs I heard by the Griller were out of tune (especially the 1st
> violin) -
> > > I couldn't listen to them for more than 2 minutes.
> >
> > Poor soul...these recordings are *glorious*. I can hardly believe you're
>
> > serious, you probably aren't.
>
> Sorry Philip, but this is insupportable myth. I am entertained
> by how many people *here* are willing to entertain it.
> Griller intonation was always iffy; what the ensemble did
> --up to a point--
> was make up for it in style.
I only know the Griller's Haydn Op. 71/74, but FWIW I agree with John
Wiser on the intonation. The rest of it is good (especially since
there are not a lot of recordings of these). (Of course the Grillers
could still be glorious despite that.)
For at least that particular Griller, I think the intonation wanders a
little too randomly to sound really intentional, but otherwise I don't
think expressly used impurity of intonation is much of a problem
(except I suppose for those who require a very centered sound to be
happy). Enescu is totally "impure" and amazing - his octaves are
divided into 1200 notes. Next to those the consistent deployment of
the purest 12 can seem a bit restricted as an idea. (And there's
Feuermann, there's Huberman, there's Thibaud, there are all the
interestingly tuned string quartets...)
Lena
MrT
eror's raiment....at least not aloud.
>
> Well, I must be deaf then. I'll give them another spin (one of a very
> large amount of spins) and see what happens. I always *loved* these
> recordings and not because others liked them too. Just curious: what
> recording of the Mozart quintets would you recommend over the Grillers'?
>
> My ex aequo choice would be the Budapest (but then I have heard people
> complaining about *their* intonation as well...)
My first recommendation is the Smetana with Suk, supplemented by the
Tátrai with Anna Mauthner (Hungaroton). My opinion of the Griller is
not as negative as John's. They play with warmth and they obviously
understand the music intimately. The comparison with the Lindsays is
an insult to the Griller boys. I feel about them the same way I feel
about the fifties-and-later Budapest: lots of affection, admiration of
their musicianship, but not unqualified enthusiasm.
Look out for single disks by the Alban Berg Quartet, L'Archibudelli,
and for the set by the late Orlando Quartet (with Imai). The latter is
back in print and competes well with all but the best (see first
paragraph).
The worst: A briefly available set of concert performances by the
Guarneri Quartet with Kashkashian. Save your harsh words for this one
and let the Griller and Budapest ride. They're still very fine of
their kind, after all.
Best,
MrT
Dan Koren
Grumiaux.
dk
"Alan Little" <con...@alanlittle.org> wrote in message
news:4ef0f3a4.04032...@posting.google.com...
Alan Cooper
>Philip Peters <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> wrote in message news:<4068B6F4...@p-peters.demon.nl>...
>
>eror's raiment....at least not aloud.
>>
>> Well, I must be deaf then. I'll give them another spin (one of a very
>> large amount of spins) and see what happens. I always *loved* these
>> recordings and not because others liked them too. Just curious: what
>> recording of the Mozart quintets would you recommend over the Grillers'?
>>
>> My ex aequo choice would be the Budapest (but then I have heard people
>> complaining about *their* intonation as well...)
>
>My first recommendation is the Smetana with Suk, supplemented by the
>T?trai with Anna Mauthner (Hungaroton). My opinion of the Griller is
>not as negative as John's. They play with warmth and they obviously
>understand the music intimately. The comparison with the Lindsays is
>an insult to the Griller boys. I feel about them the same way I feel
>about the fifties-and-later Budapest: lots of affection, admiration of
>their musicianship, but not unqualified enthusiasm.
But you can get the '40s (i.e. prime) Budapest in these works as well,
with Katims. The earlier set has supplanted the excellent Budapest +
Trampler mid-'50s mono set (which has never been issued complete on
CD, iirc) in my affections. As much as I enjoy the Grillers, the '40s
Budapest set has become my benchmark. As I said in my previous post,
I also enjoy the Smetana + Suk, but their weighty approach will not be
to everyone's liking.
Three individual recordings that are favorites of mine are the Pro
Arte + Hobday in K. 515, the Lener + D'Oliveira in K. 516, and the
Prazak + Talich also in K. 516 (with thanks to Steve Emerson for the
last-named).
AC
Dirk A. Ronk
> Tátrai with Anna Mauthner (Hungaroton).
Many years ago, I acquired an LP set of the "completed" Tatrai Quartet
(I presume these are the performances with Mauthner you refer to) and
it has maintained its place in my collection ever since. In fact,
along with the Tatrai's Haydn op.76 and perhaps their op.33, this is
probably my favorite recording by that group (I find some of their
other Haydn opus numbers less inspired than the ones named). I love
the music and I love the performances. I'm sorry to hear, based on a
post above, that the early digital transfers "flattened" the sound
somewhat, but in my analog edition, there's more than enough
liveliness and finesse for my ears. Just my opinion, of course.
Curious about Suk/Smetana, since that's been brought up. Might take a
listen to that one if it ever crosses my path.
Dirk
Ivailo Partchev
Quartets dedicated to Haydn - Quatour Mosaiques (Naive Astree)
Prussian Quartets - Leipziger Streichquartett (MDG)
Quintets, early quartets - Talich Quartet (Calliope)
Philip Peters
I rate the earlier Budapest/Katims a lot higher.
> On CD the only complete set I have is the Tatrai/Mauthner,
> which is dry but at its best exalted. Then I suppose I should
> tell you I have two Denon CDs with Smetana Qtt/Suk, which
> I like a lot, especially for K. 516.
No quarrel here.
On the other hand, the Artis
> Quartet with an unremembered violist is supreme in K. 515 [Sony].
Ah...one I never heard...
> HIP accounts on hand include 515/516 couplings by Ensemble 415
Not my cup of tea
> and Hausmusik, and 516s from Aston Magna players
Both much better though not in a league with the
Grillers/Budapests/Smeatana IMO. I don't quite warm to the Kuijken &
Salomon quartets.
and a bunch
> of NY Philomusica pickups. I am on the verge of springing for the
> damned Lener set, too. It's in my basket at BRO.
LOL. I have them and having a soft spot for the Lener I like them too.
The Pro Arte Qt. plus Hobday is worth a spin too.
>
> Specifically rejected a long long time ago was the Orlando Set with
> wotsername, when it came out on BIS,
Her name is Nobuko Imai and I find them better than I first thought.
and the Guarneri set for RCA
> with three up-and-comers. The latter boys in those days minced Mozart
> horribly. I don't begin to understand how they got there, after doing
> such a bang-up job on K. 589/590 in their first appearance on LP.
Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
Grumiaux people...
Very peculiar is K.515 by an ad hoc group with Heifetz, Baker, Primrose,
Majewski & Piatigorski who set out the cath a plane... great absolutely
incredible playing which has *nothing* to do with the work in question ;-)
Philip
MrT
> On 29 Mar 2004 22:35:14 -0800, symbi...@yahoo.com (MrT) wrote:
>
nship, but not unqualified enthusiasm.
>
> But you can get the '40s (i.e. prime) Budapest in these works as well,
> with Katims. The earlier set has supplanted the excellent Budapest +
> Trampler mid-'50s mono set (which has never been issued complete on
> CD, iirc) in my affections. As much as I enjoy the Grillers, the '40s
> Budapest set has become my benchmark. As I said in my previous post,
> I also enjoy the Smetana + Suk, but their weighty approach will not be
> to everyone's liking.
Budapest + Katims is indeed a wonderful set. I should listen to it
more often. This music is so great that it justifies keeping every
recording that is good.
>
> Three individual recordings that are favorites of mine are the Pro
> Arte + Hobday in K. 515
Indeed. Fantastic.
the Lener + D'Oliveira in K. 516,
Sorry, I am alergic to the Lener. I've never understood the claims of
greatness for this ensemble. Especially when you compare with the best
Pro Arte or the early Budapest, or even the Stuyvesant (OK, we're
getting into arcana here, soon we may be talking about the Heifetz
Quartet...).
and the
> Prazak + Talich also in K. 516 (with thanks to Steve Emerson for the
> last-named).
I haven't heard this one but I trust Steven's nose for the good stuff.
I've switched to noses in order to avoid Korenian wrath.
Best,
Mario
Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:406A03E0...@p-peters.demon.nl:
> John Wiser wrote:
>
>> and the Guarneri set for RCA with three up-and-comers. The latter boys
>> in those days minced Mozart horribly. I don't begin to understand how
>> they got there, after doing such a bang-up job on K. 589/590 in their
>> first appearance on LP.
>
> Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
> Grumiaux people...
I just did a Google Groups search and am astonished to find that you and I
and Dan Koren are the only ones to mention Grumiaux and friends so far.
Philip Peters
Sigh...that should have read *K.516* of course.
P.
>
>
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Philip Peters <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in news:406A03E0...@p-peters.demon.nl:
>
>> John Wiser wrote:
>>
>>> and the Guarneri set for RCA with three up-and-comers. The latter boys
>>> in those days minced Mozart horribly. I don't begin to understand how
>>> they got there, after doing such a bang-up job on K. 589/590 in their
>>> first appearance on LP.
>>
>> Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
>> Grumiaux people...
>
>I just did a Google Groups search and am astonished to find that you and I
>and Dan Koren are the only ones to mention Grumiaux and friends so far.
I'll make a negative mention if you like.
Simon
Paul Ilechko
> Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
> Grumiaux people...
I'll second the Talich/Rehak recommendation. In fact, I'm going to
listen to it now !
John Wiser
Simon Roberts wrote:
>, Matthew B. Tepper
> says...
> >
> >Philip Peters <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> appears to have yadda yadda in
news:406A03E0...@p-peters.demon.nl:
> >
> >> John Wiser wrote:
> >>
> >>> and the Guarneri set for RCA with three up-and-comers. The latter
boys
> >>> in those days minced Mozart horribly. I don't begin to understand
how
> >>> they got there, after doing such a bang-up job on K. 589/590 in
their
> >>> first appearance on LP.
> >>
> >> Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
> >> Grumiaux people...
> >
> >I just did a Google Groups search and am astonished to find that you
and I
> >and Dan Koren are the only ones to mention Grumiaux and friends so far.
>
> I'll make a negative mention if you like.
Better you than me. I'm in enough trouble already.
--
John Wiser
cee...@frontiernet.not
Matthew B. Tepper
letters to be typed in news:c4erj...@drn.newsguy.com:
Please explain, if you wish.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
War is Peace. ** Freedom is Slavery. ** It's all Napster's Fault!
Simon Roberts
says...
>
>Simon Roberts <sd...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following
>letters to be typed in news:c4erj...@drn.newsguy.com:
>
>> In article <Xns94BCC8618C9...@207.217.125.206>, Matthew B.
>> Tepper says...
>>>
>>>Philip Peters <phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> appears to have caused the
>>>following letters to be typed in
>>>news:406A03E0...@p-peters.demon.nl:
>>>
>>>> John Wiser wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and the Guarneri set for RCA with three up-and-comers. The latter
>>>>> boys in those days minced Mozart horribly. I don't begin to
>>>>> understand how they got there, after doing such a bang-up job on K.
>>>>> 589/590 in their first appearance on LP.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly I have to agree. But then there are the Talich + Rehak and the
>>>> Grumiaux people...
>>>
>>>I just did a Google Groups search and am astonished to find that you and
>>>I and Dan Koren are the only ones to mention Grumiaux and friends so far.
>>
>> I'll make a negative mention if you like.
>
>Please explain, if you wish.
For now I'll just say that their interpretations of this music remind me of
Perahia's recordings of the piano concertos (which makes dk's enthusiasm seem a
trifle odd, but that's another matter).
Simon
william kasimer
"Simon Roberts" <sd...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:c4fbg...@drn.newsguy.com...
Re Grumiaux and company
> For now I'll just say that their interpretations of this music
remind me of
> Perahia's recordings of the piano concertos.
Exactly. It's "pretty" Mozart, but not much more, and I found the
group's sound balanced toward the first violin to much too great a
degree. All of the edges are smoothed off the music, which isn't the
way I like to hear Mozart in general, and particularly K515 and K516.
My preferences are for the Grillers, Artis, and L'Archibudelli. Of
the complete sets (beside Griller), Melos and Smetana/Suk, although
the latter disappoints a bit in K516/516, alas. I think that I still
have the Talich set, but haven't listened to it in a long time. I do
recall that it was the set I bought first after being disappointed
with the Grumiaux.
Bill
jgarcia
> sets on Vanguard and Artemis - has anybody heard these & can comment
> on the sound?
I bought the Griller set on the recently resurrected Vanguard a few
months ago, after reading a similar lovefest on another music board
(or maybe it was this one...). Frankly, I find the performances good,
definitly worth the low asking price, but not nearly as superior as
others evidently find them. Let's just say I'm keeping them, but I'm
definitely not dumping my other versions...
For one, I agree w/ those who point out that the group has intonation
problems - I don't have the sharpest ear in the world, but it's pretty
obvious even to me. Some noticably sour moments. Also be aware that
there are no repeats - this may not bother some people, but I find it
a major drawback that really robs the music of some of its gravitas,
esp. in 515 and 516.
In terms of interpretation, the group seems to be more in tune with
the faster, more extrovert aspects of this music, and the outer
movements have a wonderful liveliness to them. However I found their
treatment of the slow movements rather workmanlike, and lacking in
poise.
Sound is quite good, though not great. Very clear and present w/ good
seperation, but a bit close and bright.
FWIW, of the four complete sets I've heard (Griller, Talich, Grumiaux,
Julliard), none of them really hit the mark, IMO. Individual discs
are the way to go here... My personal favorite is probably
L'Archibudelli in 515 & 516...
Alan Little
> > > equally stodgy?)
> >
> > I bought op130/133 out of curiosity when I sw the cheap EMI releases.
> > Nothing about it made me want to keep it or buy the rest. I admit I'm
> > generalising from a severely limited sample.
>
> :) -- FWIW I don't like their Op. 130 that much either. (I think the ABQ
> gets better in this repertoire the further back towards the past you go...)
Did you mean back to earlier pieces, or earlier recordings? Anyway, I
thought for 4.50 euros on EMI Red Line I might as well take a punt on
your opinion of ABQ's opus 18. So bought the CD of 18/4-6 yesterday.
Then, before I had a chance to listen to it, heard them playing 18/6
on the radio in the car today. And yes, I can see why you might be
surprised if you thought I was describing this as "stodgy". I would go
more for "exuberant" - very much looking forward to listening to the
rest.
Lena
> > > > (Just curious - which parts of the ABQ Beethoven are stodgy? Or all parts
> > > > equally stodgy?)
> > >
> > > I bought op130/133 [...]
> > (I think the ABQ
> > gets better in this repertoire the further back towards the past you go...)
>
> Did you mean back to earlier pieces, or earlier recordings?
Earlier pieces. (Towards Op. 18.)
> Anyway, I
> thought for 4.50 euros on EMI Red Line I might as well take a punt on
> your opinion of ABQ's opus 18. So bought the CD of 18/4-6 yesterday.
> Then, before I had a chance to listen to it, heard them playing 18/6
> on the radio in the car today. And yes, I can see why you might be
> surprised if you thought I was describing this as "stodgy". I would go
> more for "exuberant" - very much looking forward to listening to the
> rest.
I'm glad the descriptions are synchronized now. (Opinions may of
course diverge as buoyantly as they usually do. :) -- In any case,
please post yours when you get a chance.)
Lena